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otrava2
12-06-2007, 03:54 AM
ok, it PVP discussionsee at population - 70% of pvp healers - dru, 28%-cler and 2%shamwhy ? becose ward in pvp too low powershaman cant heal incoming damage. singl and esp group incoming damage/shaman have only ONE grp heal on 1000-1500grp ward - FAKE it imposibly to kast in pvp swarm with 5 sec cast time (shaman not have cast time reduse)and if they land(oh gods) they have only 3000(pvp) ward on grp GRP!it mean if one target have one dd shoot from rog-sors-dru - ALL group come nakedwhats with singl ward ? 1500 in pvp - it realy joke.. it HALF from scaut-wizard nukeand it need 2 sec for kast.and death ward.. jast comparthe with ink 80 heal i think SOE jast gloome aboutdefilers- //We get em nathing beecose no one pley em//summary - all ward - ONE shoted streep buff. our grp ward - in closest vew - SINGL ward with hell cast timedont tell about pre-ward situation, pvp - not reid, no duel - no time for 7 sec for pre-wardsolution increese ward on 40% in pve and pvp to all wards - singl, grp, instant  and deathwardreduse cast tame on singl ward to 1.5 sec reduse cast time grp ward to 3 sec AND make it separate ward to EACH grp member like dru-regenincreese deathward on 100% ( 3000 with 100% heal 6000 on 1%) , it realy soe-bad-joke now make it, and see maby shaman population on pvp server raise 2% line//sorry my engl. not native

Notsovilepriest
12-06-2007, 04:09 AM
There aren't enough of us to get anything changed TBH, We may as well just stop "Complaining" now.

otrava2
12-06-2007, 04:31 AM
not 'complaining' herejast become angry try heal grp from warlok or swash or bersif going deepe here tons of problemsdru can keep grp well under totaly taunted and target lockedjast spam grp heal-regen-emergencysham grp  emergency - ~1500absorption on  single(!!!) targetdru grp emergency -  huge heal with 1000heal per tick .. to EACH grp memberit totaly sheet underpower for shammy

Notsovilepriest
12-06-2007, 06:03 AM
I don't view it as complaining either, but that is what the non-Shamans will think. So I put it in quotes now.

G1Joe
12-06-2007, 06:08 AM
<p>something needs to be done with defilers dunno about mystics in pvp heals either too weak or wards too slow in pvp dont even bother with group ward these days unless we gonna win.</p><p>And people calling for scourge nerf rofl  </p>

Saintedone
12-06-2007, 06:11 AM
<p>Erudite Wizzies got a nice word in the Beta for ROK and the scouts raised so much crap they nerfed it before it went live so I wouldnt hold to much with this thread even though I do believe in your post and would support shammies.</p><p>Unfortunately these servers are corrupted by the scout classes to the extent that SOE/EQ2 devs cant make a single move in the direction of balance. If they could have they would have by now. </p><p>They just releaced a great exspantion to the game only to see the same old same old. CA classes getting stronger and stronger caster classes/healers getting weaker - gear and AA wise.</p><p>Saintz</p>

Oneira
12-06-2007, 07:54 AM
<cite>G1Joe wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>something needs to be done with defilers dunno about mystics in pvp heals either too weak or wards too slow in pvp dont even bother with group ward these days unless we gonna win.</p><p>And people calling for scourge nerf rofl  </p></blockquote>Mystics may have it slightly better than defilers, but that's like saying an animal with mange is better than an animal with anthrax--they're both terminal.  On the core issue, i.e. getting our wards and heals off in the first place and then seeing how fast they get ripped through, we're both in the same  boat.

rvbarton
12-06-2007, 09:00 AM
<p>I completely agree with the OP.  The group ward is a joke for mystics.  I dunno about defilers, never played one, but I have experienced this too many times to count.  </p><p>A simple solution to the group ward:  Instead of one amount covering the entire group (3000 pt ward covers 6 players), why not make the group ward, cover each group member independently (3000 pt ward on EACH member of the group)?  This would keep swarm pets, AE's and what have you from stripping a ward and give a needed boost to the Mystic/Defiler class?</p>

Roald
12-06-2007, 01:18 PM
Whenever I've grouped with defilers for PvP, they seem more than capable of doing a good healing job. And even druids find it hard to get heals off when a group is beating on them, not just shamens/clerics.

dellaripa
12-06-2007, 02:59 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>Whenever I've grouped with defilers for PvP, they seem more than capable of doing a good healing job. And even druids find it hard to get heals off when a group is beating on them, not just shamens/clerics.</blockquote><p>Ok take druid  PVP healing frustration and multiply it by a large number, say 1000.  Bingo, you have computed shaman PVP healing frustration.   </p><p>I have a shaman and a druid in the 50s.  There is absolutely no comparison PVP healing wise.  PVE are are both equally competant.</p>

T1663R
12-06-2007, 03:05 PM
<cite>dellaripa wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>Whenever I've grouped with defilers for PvP, they seem more than capable of doing a good healing job. And even druids find it hard to get heals off when a group is beating on them, not just shamens/clerics.</blockquote><p>Ok take druid  PVP healing frustration and multiply it by a large number, say 1000.  Bingo, you have computed shaman PVP healing frustration.   </p><p>I have a shaman and a druid in the 50s.  There is absolutely no comparison PVP healing wise.  PVE are are both equally competant.</p></blockquote>i totally agree with dellaripa.I beg you SOE pls boost our wards. ;((

Notsovilepriest
12-06-2007, 04:39 PM
Here we go Mystics who haven't played defilers.Defiler Wards= Mystic WardsDefiler Heals > Mystic Heals - HP Boost(Worthless)Same Cast times

Notsovilepriest
12-06-2007, 09:07 PM
Well, I can't even kill a Zerker Solo Any, Please do something, for the love of god

tshook
12-06-2007, 09:14 PM
<cite>otrava2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>not 'complaining' herejast become angry try heal grp from warlok or swash or bersif going deepe here tons of problemsdru can keep grp well under totaly taunted and target lockedjast spam grp heal-regen-emergencysham grp  emergency - ~1500absorption on  single(!!!) targetdru grp emergency -  huge heal with 1000heal per tick .. to EACH grp memberit totaly sheet underpower for shammy</blockquote><p>I absolute 100% agree.  Total and complete sheet.</p><p>Posted about it too many times.  6 secs in PVP is an eternity. </p>

Notsovilepriest
12-07-2007, 06:59 PM
Bumping because it needs addressed badly

otrava2
12-09-2007, 02:26 AM
i feel self sado-mazo when play solo or grp pvp with defiler cant heal, cant damage,  cant kill, cant stop anemy, cant run (yes again bug with ward buff puting in combat)ye soe make nice raide buff-ward bot  i not remember good defiller chenges around 2year. only nerf.

KannaWhoopass
12-09-2007, 06:49 AM
<p>In PvE a defiler is ok </p><p>Defilers are really on ly raid healers. </p><p>Their Buff/Debuff and ability to heal great when standing at safe distance makes them desired by all raid guilds. </p><p>But if PvP they are the suck ... </p><p>If you look at their heal potential in PvP its just not there .... </p><p>Just look at how a defiler solo's content ...  </p><p>1)Preward </p><p>2)cover the mob with debuffs </p><p>3)Start Attack </p><p>Defilers healing depends on the encounter being in a weakened state .. </p><p>In PvP this is a solo defiler fighting a High DpS class </p><p> fight starts .. depending on the range ... self ward ,, or go for the debuff. </p><p>but most times .. looks like .... start casting interupted ,,, again interupted ... health in orange ... aoe fear ... if resisted dead.. </p><p>if not ..then perhaps self heal ... throw a dot on enemy ... try to single target feear .. ... resisted = dead </p><p>The jist of it is .. if your fear is resisted you die..... </p><p> If you are fighting a wizard or scout .. you die because your wards cant absorb the incoming dps .. and your dps is to low to kill an opponent in less than 40 seconds..  in PvP id say defiler dps is something like 150 dps .. or if scourge lands and defile is up .... ok higher ... but that is way rare...</p><p>Im not sure what to do with a defiler to be honest .. thay have  0 PvP utility to them </p><p>Contrast my defiler with my warden </p><p>Warden = fast heals , heals will have hot components which will keep healing if interupted later.. aoe root , single target root, group root, sow 45% , evac , sandstorm .. , imunity to root effects , damage shield AA lines which make it hard to interupt , best group healer , good single target healer .. leather armor.. but buffs to increase the mit. Good +crush/slash/pierce buff. </p><p>Defiler = aoe fear , single target fear. poor dps , no snares , no roots , slow heals , easy to interupt  , marginal haste buff  if str line .. nice group hitpoint buff .. chance to absorb hostile spell if int line ... never see this one work tho ... and dog can prog grp heal ... but dog is killed in 2 hits ... </p><p> Furies /inquis.templar are also great group healers.. </p><p>A defiler cans slow you down or catch you ... cant kill you quickly .. cant heal groups well at all .. can heal one target well if not interupted .. </p><p>If you want to see something funny ... atack a zerker or monk with a defiler ... if he doesnt enter combat .. see how long .. it takes to kill him .... or if it is even possible .... cant kill afk player ... </p><p>If DeathWard could be cast on the defiler .. PvP might be a possibility ... a one second extra ward at the beginning of a fight to offset the burst DPS would have been nice.. </p><p>Or if it were absoloutly impossible to stiffle or interupt a defiler .. </p><p>cause noting says funny .. like a scout hitting you with .. knockback + 2 or 3 second stiffle .. .. so you can then try to cast a 2 second ward .. or better yet a heal which takes life to cast... being on the vege of death .. and having ... you dont have enough life to heal yourself ... </p>

Psych
12-09-2007, 10:20 AM
Scourge is crap especially in pvp tier 2 and easily tears 80% plus off of my coercer even if the opponent is green blue or gray as long as it lands it destroys me easily.I see way more druids than defilers especially after tier 2 (scourge is popular there) so that surely means something. I dunno what cause I havnt played a defiler to any level that mattered but the numbers dont lie. Unpopular classes are unpopular for a reason. Its usually because they arent as powerful as the other classes.

Eybietie
12-09-2007, 10:41 AM
<cite>otrava2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>ok, it PVP discussionsee at population - 70% of pvp healers - dru, 28%-cler and 2%shamwhy ? </blockquote>because you can run arround solo with a druid rather than with a defiler or mystic.

XeroXs84
12-09-2007, 12:34 PM
I think the big issue with shamans si that their group ward just cannot take aoe damage at all.. thats cos already a quite small aoe hit is enough to burn through group wards (a 3k group ward is burned with a 500 aoe hit, if theres 6 members)my personal "best fix" for this issue would be adding a aoe immunity to group wards (so only the direct target gets hit).. for pvp only tho cos that would be insane overpowered for pve. This wouldnt overpower shamans in solo pvp (they very decent in 1v1 situations imho) and give them the needed boost for group pvp. Maybe add something like "if only healer in group" or something like that, and it should be pretty good balanced.

Oneira
12-09-2007, 03:19 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think the big issue with shamans si that their group ward just cannot take aoe damage at all.. thats cos already a quite small aoe hit is enough to burn through group wards (a 3k group ward is burned with a 500 aoe hit, if theres 6 members)my personal "best fix" for this issue would be adding a aoe immunity to group wards (so only the direct target gets hit).. for pvp only tho cos that would be insane overpowered for pve. This wouldnt overpower shamans in solo pvp (they very decent in 1v1 situations imho) and give them the needed boost for group pvp. Maybe add something like "if only healer in group" or something like that, and it should be pretty good balanced.</blockquote>I could use some clarification about how the group ward absorbs damage.  I was under the impression that incoming damage was applied to the group ward first before that damage being distributed to the group.So for example, a wizard casts Fusion for 5K.  The group ward absorbs, say, 4k of that (mitigation applied) and 1K gets through as damage.  A warlock casts his 3K AOE attack at a group of 6.  The group ward is applied to that 3K first.  Let's say 500 damage gets through.  Each group member takes 500 damage.  It is NOT the case that the group ward must absorb 3k times 6 group members = 18K.  Am I right about that?  In other words, whether it's a single target attack or an encounter or AE, the group ward takes it straight off the top.Have I been wrong about this?

Reddeth
12-10-2007, 01:30 AM
<p>To be honest, that isn't going to fix much of the problem. </p><p>Half the time, I can barely get a ward or heal off because of stuns/stifles/ and interrupts. At least at level 78. This is solo of course. In a group I am able to heal somewhat.... but damage is coming too darn fast that it doesn't do a whole lot of good.</p><p> Take group wards.. it wasrd for about 4K. Um.,., it takes 5 sec. to cast and a group can do way over 5K damage in those 5 seconds. Single ward is good for about 2K hps or so and takes about 2 sec to cast. Well, scouts can rip through it like butter.</p><p> Actually, let me backtrack a sec.. those are in PvE, the actual amounts are less in pvp.</p><p>Not complaining here, I've made an alt to pvp with when I actually want to be able to kill someone.</p>

G1Joe
12-10-2007, 05:31 AM
<p>"So for example, a wizard casts Fusion for 5K.  The group ward absorbs, say, 4k of that (mitigation applied) and 1K gets through as damage.  "This sort of statement is useful in pointing out the difference between PVE and PVP amounts in terms of healing.</p><p> My group ward when crits wards 4K in PVP lucky to get 3K in PVP for a 5 second cast that is absolute b ollox</p><p> For some reason I do ok in solo pvp against poor healers, rangers?? dunno why, should do better against poor to average wiz if they dont crit. Like many it can come down to timing and keeping your head when you see those red numbers going up.</p><p>Swashies destroy me , I am sure there are people who have max'd the potential of their defiler and I would love to hear from them for tips. Solo ones that is (are there any)?</p><p> Group PVP these days people dont want defilers as their cast times are so poor and grp heals fairly weak.</p><p>I hope we get some love at some point but Im betting its a case of defiler being one of those classes (like SK) where a little bit of love could leave an OP class like warlocks with Manashield. manashield isnt the problem , the problem there is manashield + ward items + stoneskin items + propogation + nullmail = OP.</p>

otrava2
12-10-2007, 06:17 AM
when fusion inc 5k...it wrongfusion coming not with 5 k damageit coming 5k to three person - then 15k incoming damagegroup ward absorb only 2800 in pvp mode to ONE ferst  person12k coming to group

otrava2
12-10-2007, 06:23 AM
when i ferst time see Deathward CANT be cast on defiler semselfs i thinkit joke..when i try cast it ... it come to reality...SOE stop RUINS the subclass!compare Deathward with Templar 80? Inc 80 ? what are you duing?if you wanna eleminate it subclass make it..ye i know defiler on pve raid uberbut pvp aspect need be totaly rebuildEOF begin ruin pvp defilers and continue it in ROKstop it! stop that ranger-druid world!

Siphar
12-10-2007, 08:34 AM
<p>There is a reason there is so few shaman on PvP, because they are not designed to be an effective solo pvp class.</p><p>I would have thought this was obvious, (as it seems most people realise when they get to the character creation screen) but it also seems that every class wants to have the ultimate solo PvP capability! That's just being naive if you ask me..</p><p>There are lots of broken things in this game that need fixing before we make make shaman solo pvp kings, like: - </p><ul><li>fixing the way pets path/follow, </li><li>fixing the stone skin items that scouts still use,</li><li>fixing the servers so they are not always so laggy and/or crashing,</li><li>fixing the JW quest which cannot be completed due to there being no banker at the Danak shipyard</li><li>etc etc </li><li>etc</li></ul><p>Last group I was in, the shaman did a great job. Why not consider that before wanting a solo pvp boost?</p>

silentpsycho
12-10-2007, 09:52 AM
<p>Why the [Removed for Content] do you think everyone wants or needs to be a solo pvp god?   Because that's what you want?  Project much?   [Removed for Content] that.  I want to be a good *group* pvp healer.  This means, as a defiler I need to be able to keep an entire group alive with 3-4 tier one dps classes pounding on it.  Presently, a defiler gets interrupted, stunned, knocked back, etc. to the point where it's impossible just to get a 2 second cast time ward up.  A ward that any *one* of those dps classes can chew through in under two seconds.  Presently, my group ward can be one shotted by a tier 3 dps class.  Thats a ward I have to stand still and not be interrupted for 5 seconds to get up.  5 seconds.  It may not sound like a long time, but it's an eternity in T8 where people can be autoattacked to death in a second or two.</p><p>What I don't get is why, in the lower tiers was it ok for defilers to be decent healers in pvp if they could at least get a pre-ward up of the group ward, you know, back when it took some time to chew through a 2k group ward - like T3-T4.  It's like all the dps classes get more and more every time they level, and we're still trying to ward with stuff that is designed to protect against attacks from a low 30's dps class.</p>

Oneira
12-10-2007, 10:43 AM
<cite>otrava2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>when fusion inc 5k...it wrongfusion coming not with 5 k damageit coming 5k to three person - then 15k incoming damagegroup ward absorb only 2800 in pvp mode to ONE ferst  person12k coming to group</blockquote>Ouch.  I didn't realize that's the way it is.  This is plain shocking.  There is absolutely no way that this is fair to shamans.  If what you're saying is true, then group ward is actually the worst of the primary abilities of any healer class, not the best.

Siphar
12-10-2007, 11:23 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Why the [I cannot control my vocabulary] do you think everyone wants or needs to be a solo pvp god?   Because that's what you want?  Project much?   [I cannot control my vocabulary] that.  I want to be a good *group* pvp healer.  <span style="color: #ff3366;">This means, as a defiler I need to be able to keep an entire group alive with 3-4 tier one dps classes pounding on it.</span>  </p><p><span style="color: #6600ff;">This sounds rather god-like if you ask me. You shouldn't be able to keep anyone up against this.</span></p><p>Presently, a defiler gets interrupted, stunned, knocked back, etc. to the point where it's impossible just to get a 2 second cast time ward up.  A ward that any *one* of those dps classes can chew through in under two seconds.  Presently, my group ward can be one shotted by a tier 3 dps class.  Thats a ward I have to stand still and not be interrupted for 5 seconds to get up.  5 seconds.  It may not sound like a long time, but it's an eternity in T8 where people can be autoattacked to death in a second or two.</p><p>What I don't get is why, in the lower tiers was it ok for defilers to be decent healers in pvp if they could at least get a pre-ward up of the group ward, you know, back when it took some time to chew through a 2k group ward - like T3-T4.  It's like all the dps classes get more and more every time they level, and we're still trying to ward with stuff that is designed to protect against attacks from a low 30's dps class.</p></blockquote><p>I know a few groups in T8 on Nagafen that litterally never lose a fight (they have a defiler in the group as well).</p><p>The fact is, to be a successful PvP-group, you need to have a MT (pref. a guardian).. then you don't need instant wards and ability to fend off "3-4 Tier one dps" classes hitting different targets..</p>

Siphar
12-10-2007, 11:25 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Why the [I cannot control my vocabulary] do you think everyone wants or needs to be a solo pvp god?   Because that's what you want?  Project much?   [I cannot control my vocabulary] that.  I want to be a good *group* pvp healer.  This means, as a defiler I need to be able to keep an entire group alive with 3-4 tier one dps classes pounding on it.  Presently, a defiler gets interrupted, stunned, knocked back, etc. to the point where it's impossible just to get a 2 second cast time ward up.  A ward that any *one* of those dps classes can chew through in under two seconds.  Presently, my group ward can be one shotted by a tier 3 dps class.  Thats a ward I have to stand still and not be interrupted for 5 seconds to get up.  5 seconds.  It may not sound like a long time, but it's an eternity in T8 where people can be autoattacked to death in a second or two.</p><p>What I don't get is why, in the lower tiers was it ok for defilers to be decent healers in pvp if they could at least get a pre-ward up of the group ward, you know, back when it took some time to chew through a 2k group ward - like T3-T4.  It's like all the dps classes get more and more every time they level, and we're still trying to ward with stuff that is designed to protect against attacks from a low 30's dps class.</p></blockquote><p>Using your argument reversed, me being an assassin in my PvP-group:</p><p><span style="color: #ff3366;">This means, <span style="color: #6600ff;">as an assassin </span>I need to be able <span style="color: #6600ff;">kill</span> an entire group with 3-4 healers chain healing it. </span></p><p><span style="color: #ff3366;">~ lolz.. you are 1 healer with an ability to ward an entire grp. MY assassin can burn down 1 target with sad Ae attacks. You say you don't want to be a god. I think you are asking for exactly that.</span></p>

Reddeth
12-10-2007, 12:07 PM
<p>Actually our ward and heal upgrades scale so poorly compared to the damage upgrades that other classes get.</p><p> A ward that is upgraded 10-14 levels later, will ward you for 200 more damage.  I'm relatively sure that damege upgrades are significantly higher than this, so take into about 3-5 tiers and you can really see the difference.</p><p> The one thing that is a bit frustrating for me at least is that, there are some classes that I can so well against, but every time that I manage to fight them, they run away easily. We really dont have much as far as keeping a class from escaping. Yes, I went doen the AGI line for Phalanx(which roots target(when it hits)), but if they are running away, you will have to sprint after them and hope it lands. Even then, you lost a lot of power and are propbably helpless now.</p><p> I've noticed that the other healing classes(At least on the evil side) get roots/stuns/stifles. Why is it that defilers do the least damage and don't really get any of those to help keep people from running? I think that while we are wanted in raids and groups, we are the worst healing class in PvP, period!!! </p><p> I'm not calling for nerfs on any other class, heck, if you aren't happy about your class, roll something else, I have.</p>

G1Joe
12-10-2007, 12:14 PM
<p>ok enough of the [Removed for Content] bull s hit.</p><p> 5 seconds for 3k of group heal is a joke for you or anyone to say otherwise is stupid.</p><p>I dont want to be god of PVP solo but what I would like is a fighting chance.</p><p>There are virtually Zero successful SOLO pvp defilers none!</p><p>Now take almost any other class and that wont be true with a decent amount of gear and knowledge most classes can and do become effective.</p><p>In pvp for solo or group using the group ward is a massive liability and has become virtually useless and I pretty much no longer cast it unless I know its safe to do so.</p><p>It would not take much in terms of effort or brains to make an improvement to the lot of a Defiler.</p><p>As for your I know groups that roll with defilers and they never lose is almost certainly down to the gear they have and being so much better geared and mastered on Nag has always  been > skill in most cases.</p><p>I have spoken with people that would rather take something other than a defiler so I am not sure who you speak to.</p><p>For group PVP there are better options unfortuantely</p>

Krokous
12-10-2007, 12:17 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Why the [I cannot control my vocabulary] do you think everyone wants or needs to be a solo pvp god?   Because that's what you want?  Project much?   [I cannot control my vocabulary] that.  I want to be a good *group* pvp healer.  This means, as a defiler<span style="font-size: medium;color: #cc3300;"> I need to be able to keep an entire group alive with 3-4 tier one dps classes pounding on it</span>.  Presently, a defiler gets interrupted, stunned, knocked back, etc. to the point where it's impossible just to get a 2 second cast time ward up.  A ward that any *one* of those dps classes can chew through in under two seconds.  Presently, my group ward can be one shotted by a tier 3 dps class.  Thats a ward I have to stand still and not be interrupted for 5 seconds to get up.  5 seconds.  It may not sound like a long time, but it's an eternity in T8 where people can be autoattacked to death in a second or two.</p><p>What I don't get is why, in the lower tiers was it ok for defilers to be decent healers in pvp if they could at least get a pre-ward up of the group ward, you know, back when it took some time to chew through a 2k group ward - like T3-T4.  It's like all the dps classes get more and more every time they level, and we're still trying to ward with stuff that is designed to protect against attacks from a low 30's dps class.</p></blockquote>WHAT? are yo jokin on that? you want group pvp become "we cant die because shaman can keep us alive forever" ? no thx, what would be the reason to use dps classes then? you still have good hp boosts and migit buff for yer group, semi decent wards AND defiler can remove mezz and stifle from himself so your group can [Removed for Content] Qs group GL&HF

hahnbard
12-10-2007, 12:30 PM
<p>Simple solution: </p><p> Make group wards apply their healing the same way that Druid Group Regen functions, in PVP only. The functionality exists already with the Shaman AA ability "Aura of Warding". </p><p>Currently:</p><p>Group Ward is cast, a total of 3000 damage is prevented across 6 people (500 per person)</p><p>New:</p><p>Group Ward is cast, each member is warded individually for 1500 damage (9000 damage total in full group)</p><p>This way, it's not overpowered by having had an inflated group ward under the old system, functions in pvp only so as to preserve the PvE hierarchy, and gives shamen a much needed boost in pvp healing ability. It's a little ridiculous to fight a group with a druid, and watch them shrug off AE's like it's nothing because their group heals are actually working properly. Also, please remember group wards take <b>6 SECONDS to cast, uninterrupted</b>. So there should be a payoff at the end of that painful, frustrating rainbow, in the form of the above system.</p><p>Please note: <b>This is not a call to nerf druids.</b> Infact, why not give this ability to Clerics too? You might have to lower the # of triggers for their group reactive, but possibly increase the amount per trigger to compensate. </p><p>Signed,</p><p>Frustrated Defiler</p>

silentpsycho
12-10-2007, 04:43 PM
<cite>hahnbard07 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Simple solution: </p><p> Make group wards apply their healing the same way that Druid Group Regen functions, in PVP only. The functionality exists already with the Shaman AA ability "Aura of Warding". </p><p>Currently:</p><p>Group Ward is cast, a total of 3000 damage is prevented across 6 people (500 per person)</p><p>New:</p><p>Group Ward is cast, each member is warded individually for 1500 damage (9000 damage total in full group)</p><p>This way, it's not overpowered by having had an inflated group ward under the old system, functions in pvp only so as to preserve the PvE hierarchy, and gives shamen a much needed boost in pvp healing ability. It's a little ridiculous to fight a group with a druid, and watch them shrug off AE's like it's nothing because their group heals are actually working properly. Also, please remember group wards take <b>6 SECONDS to cast, uninterrupted</b>. So there should be a payoff at the end of that painful, frustrating rainbow, in the form of the above system.</p><p>Please note: <b>This is not a call to nerf druids.</b> Infact, why not give this ability to Clerics too? You might have to lower the # of triggers for their group reactive, but possibly increase the amount per trigger to compensate. </p><p>Signed,</p><p>Frustrated Defiler</p></blockquote><p>Well, this would help a small amount against an AOE attack, but would be a huge nerf against non-aoe attacks.  I don't think we should be cutting our group wards fom 3000-4000 down to 1500 agasint a coordinated single target attack.  If anything, they need to be increased; don't pre-emptively nerf us.  Just explain the problem and let SOE come up with a solution they think is fair.  For clarity, I'll restate the problem:</p><p>In its present form, the Defiler's wards take far too long to cast in a PVP environment.  Once cast, they don't scale to compensate for the insane amounts of damage done by other classes.  Defilers generally need a big boost to be a viable class on a PVP server, especially in T8.</p>

Notsovilepriest
12-10-2007, 04:49 PM
Stop saying just Defilers, Mystics suck too now. Please don't forget your good brothers <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

seejester
12-10-2007, 07:02 PM
<span style="font-size: small;color: #00ff00;">Oh, WOW, thank you everyone who responded to the OP and clarified what he/she was saying.I'm not much of a spelling [Removed for Content], but after one attempt at reading the jargon and gibberish I wanted to leave this thread... until I noticed it was 3 pages long, and that many people who <i>could</i> make a decent pass at spelling put in their opinion. Thanks to this, I was able to gleam what the OP was trying to say.IMHO, if you want your opinion to be taken seriously, please make a pass with the spell check and grammar check. A forum post doesn't need to be perfect, but a big block of text or babbling slang will urge most readers to move on... and what's the point of posting in the forums if you don't want your opinion to be heard?</span>

Axiana
12-10-2007, 08:51 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><span style="font-size: small;color: #00ff00;">Oh, WOW, thank you everyone who responded to the OP and clarified what he/she was saying.I'm not much of a spelling [I cannot control my vocabulary], but after one attempt at reading the jargon and gibberish I wanted to leave this thread... until I noticed it was 3 pages long, and that many people who <i>could</i> make a decent pass at spelling put in their opinion. Thanks to this, I was able to gleam what the OP was trying to say.IMHO, if you want your opinion to be taken seriously, please make a pass with the spell check and grammar check. A forum post doesn't need to be perfect, but a big block of text or babbling slang will urge most readers to move on... and what's the point of posting in the forums if you don't want your opinion to be heard?</span></blockquote>It was quite easy to read the op's post and imho I am very thankful he learned to write in English so that lazy people like me can communicate with him.To the op:  I just want to say thank you for your post.  I can wholeheartly say that with my t7 warden I am quite happy to go out with a full group and heal effectively as the only healer.. even if it's I who is being beat on.  If I am asked to <i>group pvp</i> with my mystic I beg for another healer to come too, and my mystic is better geared <u>and</u> higher level than my warden.

HerbertWalker
12-10-2007, 09:51 PM
<p>They could make Shamen 100% immune to stun and/or stifle, innately.</p><p>You can safely implement this kind of thing for those classes that make up 1% of the characters played.   It is good for diversity.</p>

otrava2
12-11-2007, 10:49 AM
post here for me hard like for you post on russian or japan board... /redlolbe more tolerant

Splintered
12-11-2007, 01:17 PM
<cite>otrava2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>post here for me hard like for you post on russian or japan board... /redlolbe more tolerant</blockquote>heheh.. most people are... just that one guy who didn't read english is not your first language! Back to discussion, I have begged for months for them to fix shamans, nothing has resulted. Soe instead months ago nerfed wards. Anyone rememeber wards that were here when eq2 was launched!!! They might as well just get it over with and put wards back to how it was then. I'll reroll, and so will every other shaman!

tshook
12-11-2007, 01:52 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>Stop saying just Defilers, Mystics suck too now. Please don't forget your good brothers <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote><p>You know its bad when notsovile has to roll a guardian.  I mean seriously a GUARDIAN.  </p><p>"Boy I hate my mystic, I think I'll introduce myself to a new kind of pain."</p><p>Cimber</p>

Oneira
12-11-2007, 04:26 PM
<p><span style="font-size: 10pt;font-family: Arial;">If you don’t like to read long posts, then don’t read this.</span></p> <p><span style="font-size: 10pt;font-family: Arial;"> This will be my last post on the subject.<span>  </span>Others can agree, modify or disagree as they see fit. <span> </span>As far as I’m concerned, SOE can do what they like, including nothing about the very real frustrations that shamans feel in pvp.<span>  </span>I wanted to play a shaman in pvp, a class that looked very interesting. <span> </span>I now realize after sinking so much time into the toon that, as it stands, I made a big mistake. <span> </span>What I was warned about is in fact true. There’s a reason why shamans are the least played healer class in pvp.<span>  </span>If I had known, I would have certainly chosen a cleric instead (I have a druid). <span> </span></span></p> <p><span style="font-size: 10pt;font-family: Arial;">First, from the very start of pvp we have been severely hampered by excessively long cast times of our heals and wards.<span>  </span>None of our AA skills do anything to help this, with one exception: immunization.<span>  </span>It is very inadequate.</span></p> <p><span style="font-size: 10pt;font-family: Arial;">Second, wards are getting burned down at an astonishingly fast rate with ROK.<span>  </span>We literally cannot keep up with the damage either in PvE or PvP.<span> </span></span></p> <p><span style="font-size: 10pt;font-family: Arial;">Some observations on these two things.</span></p> <p><span style="font-size: 10pt;font-family: Arial;"> 1.<span>  </span>Every other healer class in the game has either shorter casting times than us and/or immunities to interruption</span></p> <p><span style="font-size: 10pt;font-family: Arial;">Druids get: Serenity—30 immunity to stun and interrupt.<span>  </span>Clerics get:<span>  </span>Steadfast and Divine Recovery: 30 immunity to stun and interrupt, 33% reduction to casting times and recovery FOR THE WHOLE GROUP.<span>  </span>Shamans get?<span>   </span>NOTHING.<span>   </span>The WIS line offers shamans a 33% reduction to casting times on recovery for 30 seconds. <span> </span>And get this: IT CAN ONLY BE USED ON OTHERS, NOT ON THE SHAMAN HIMSELF. <span> </span>This drives me absolutely crazy.</span></p> <p><span style="font-size: 10pt;font-family: Arial;"> Conclusion:<span>  </span>Shamans have the worst casting times and the most interruptible heals in the game.<span>  </span>It cripples them in pvp.</span></p> <p><span style="font-size: 10pt;font-family: Arial;"> 2.<span>  </span>One of the ways to get your heals off in pvp is to buy yourself some time.<span>  </span>Crowd control is critical.<span>  </span>Druids get: a multitude of snares, snare+stifles, and roots,.<span>  </span>Clerics get:<span>  </span>several deaggros, root+stifles, stuns, durations and recasts upgradeable by AAs.<span>  </span>Defilers get:<span>  </span>2 Fears, 5 sec duration.<span>  </span>Mystics get:<span>  </span>1 AE mezz, 5 second duration.</span></p> <p><span style="font-size: 10pt;font-family: Arial;"> That's it.<span>  </span>Mystics get one stinking 5 second reprieve.<span>  </span>To do what?<span>  </span>You can't get off a group ward in that time.<span>  </span>At best, you can get off an emergency ward plus a ST ward.<span>  </span>That may hold you for a little while, but once those are down, you're done.<span>  </span>You won't get another ward off if you are being attacked by a class (read: scouts) that can interrupt you.<span>  </span></span></p> <p><span style="font-size: 10pt;font-family: Arial;"> Conclusion:<span>  </span>Shamans have the worst de-aggro/crowd control of any healer in the game.<span>  </span>Since these are a very important way for healers to get critical healing spells off, it cripples them in pvp.</span></p> <p><span style="font-size: 10pt;font-family: Arial;"> 3.<span>  </span>The one line that would offer mystics (not defilers) some reprieve is the immunities line.<span>  </span>As soon as EoF AAs were released, SOE proceeded to nerf cure AAs.<span>  </span>Ask how many healers who have such a line (wardens, for example) actually invest points there.<span>  </span>Like none.<span>  </span>Why?<span>  </span>Because they suck.<span>  </span>SOE nerfed them into inconsequentiality.<span>  </span>Are any mystics going to waste 20 points in AAs just so they can get a 15 sec immmunity to stifle, stun, fear, daze and charm?<span>  </span>Even if a mystic did take it, they'd still be vulnerable to interrupts.<span>  </span>Guess how many interrupt CAs brigands have?<span>  </span>Guess how many knockbacks brawlers and SKs have?<span>  </span></span></p> <p><span style="font-size: 10pt;font-family: Arial;"> Conclusion:<span>  </span>Shaman AAs, especially Mystic, are for the most part poorly designed and do not do much of anything to compensate for the glaring weakness that shamans have.<span>  </span>Defilers are better off here, getting ward enhancements and pow regen, but no casting reductions.</span></p> <p><span style="font-size: 10pt;font-family: Arial;"><span>4.<span style="font-size: 7pt;">       </span></span></span><span style="font-size: 10pt;font-family: Arial;">With the advent of ROK, damage in pvp has gone through the roof again while shaman wards have increased only a small amount.<span>  </span>We have been led to believe that wards are the best form of healing/damage prevention in the game. <span> </span>A hard look at them proves otherwise.<span>  </span>Our best group ward blocks 4k of incoming damage. <span> </span>Compare that with the amount the best HOT will heal a group over 12 seconds time. <span> </span>The difference is simply unbelievable.<span>  </span>I will leave it to more experienced shamans to comment on this.</span></p> <p><span style="font-size: 10pt;font-family: Arial;"> Yesterday I pulled my t7 warden out of mothballs, just to compare it to my mystic. <span> </span>Here is what happens:</span></p> <p><span style="font-size: 10pt;font-family: Arial;">The warden gets jumped by a brigand.<span>  </span>BAM!<span>  </span>Dazed, stunned and all that great stuff. <span> </span>In seconds flat my health has taken a big hit, especially after being dispatched.<span>  </span>What are my options?<span>  </span>I need some time to heal. <span> </span>Shaking off the cobwebs, I remember, hey, yeah, wardens have a few nice things to help them out in situations like this! <span> </span>I panic, I hit my AE irresistible root + deaggro.<span>  </span>Brigand is rooted for 12 secs, I jump out of melee range, I quick pop Serenity. <span> </span>I’m immune to stun and interrupt for 30 seconds.<span>  </span>Crap!<span>  </span>I’m in the orange already!<span>  </span>I proceed to get off in the next 5 seconds: Emergency HOT, Single Target HOT, Single Target Heal with small HOT chaser. <span> </span>Here comes the Brig!<span>  </span>But he can’t stun or interrupt me. <span> </span>I get off Group HOT.<span>  That's right a group HOT.  </span>I’ve healed somewhere between 2000-3000 health in 5 seconds and am now ticking off over 1000 health every two seconds. <span> </span>I was in the orange.<span>  </span>Now I’m in the green.</span></p> <p><span style="font-size: 10pt;font-family: Arial;"> What about my shaman?<span>  </span>Same scenario. <span> </span>What are my options? <span> </span>Only one. <span> </span>5 second AE mezz. <span> </span>What can I do in that time? <span> </span>Emergency ward + ST ward. <span> </span>I can now ward about 2500 damage (in t7). <span> </span>But wait, I’m already down half my health! <span> </span>Too bad, your 5 seconds of fame is up, Mystic.<span>  </span>Here comes the Brig and, after hitting you with blackguard, making your casting times 50% longer, you try and cast a ST ward, a heal, anything.  Don’t even bother.<span>  </span>You have no defense against interrupts.<span>  </span>But wait!<span>  </span>Mystics are a GREAT debuffing class!<span>  </span>Debuff his STR, STA, his attack speed, DPS...the works! <span> </span>And all those debuffs mean nothing, just like your “great” wards and your “great” heals. <span> </span>Because they take too long to cast, they will be interrupted and you will be dead before half of them land. <span> </span>You turn to meleeing and you pray that you can do enough damage to the brig before your wards go down. <span> </span>You fail to do so.<span>  </span>The brig kills you with well over half his health left. <span> </span><span>  </span></span></p>I guess there's a reason why I haven't played my mystic lately.

Roald
12-11-2007, 06:00 PM
<p>Not all classes should be able to consistently excell at Solo PvP. There are always going to be some classes best solo, and other great in groups.</p><p>In a group, shamens are amazing healers. Probably my favourite to have around.</p><p>Having said that, I can see why people would think druids are more viable both solo and grouped. Maybe a ward increase of 5-10% could be implemented to make sure they are more consistently balanced.</p>

otrava2
12-12-2007, 02:54 AM
"<span class="postbody">In a group, shamens are amazing healers." pvp.it totaly totaly wrongif group ok with singl healer shaman - then group ok and without himusualy gank team.try grp vs grp fight with 5+dru vs 5+shamespetialy with warloc, swashes, berses.. etc</span>

otrava2
12-12-2007, 03:59 AM
"<span class="postbody">Maybe a ward increase of 5-10% could be implemented to make sure they are more consistently balanced."wrong againgrp ward can be incrised on 300% but it not come good in pvpit CANT be cast in pvplets some explayn:se some situation - one hiter autoatak long spell casting healer. without stun-stifle-mezz-interuptjast autoattack. chanse of interupt with one utoatack-hit around 20% in my opinion1 sec of fight + 2 hit on healer - normal chanse of interupt like 40%2 sec of figth  +2+2 hit on healer - chanse of interupt rise in x2 times chanse unterup                                                        kome to 80%.   3 sec of fight +2+2+2 hit on healer - chanse of interupt rise x3. it come to 120%4 sec              +2+2+2+2 hit. chanse on iterupt - 160%5 sec  ....        +2+2+2+2+2 hit. chanse of interupt - 200%the sheet coming - chanse of interupt rise with non linear progression when rise cast time.it hiperbolic progression  or somthing.we can see spell with cast time 2 sec - have huge chanse to bee interuptedspel with cast time 3 and more sec - totaly cant be casted in pvp. need runfrom swam, root, breack distanse, tank-taunt etc. now turn on interupt-stiffle-stun-mezz abilities..defiler have  4  heal spells with 2 sec cast time. it HUGE chanse to be enteruptedsingl target ward, small singl target heal  and 2 emergency ward insta cast. ITs ALL PVP arsenal of defiler. see here NO ONE ae grp protection-heal.grp heal have 3 sec cast time and casting it in pvp swarm - you get renew spell casting progression bar agayn and ageyn.(pipl not put here big number pve ward. see it at pvp spell-mode)grp t8 ward have not 4000 point it have 3000 points in pvp can be streeped from one targetsingl t8 ward not 2300 point it have 1700 in pvpneed tune PVP  ability of shaman. pve aspect looks balansed now.need revew cast time and amount of ward-heal for sham it need be lowered to end of dru cast timedru cast time 1.0 sec-1.5 secsham cast time need be 1.5-2.0 sec(soe make BIG mistake with this cast timesoe wanna make fast cast - low heal amountlong cast - big heal amount.it maibe good in pve but in pvp it mean:fast cast - can heallong cast - NO heal)1) singl target ward cast time - 1.5 sec2) grp ward cast time - 3.0 sec3) small singl heal cast time - 1.5 sec4) big singl target cast time - 2 sec5) grp heal cast time - 2 sec6) rise grp ward amount to 5000(pvp mode) (it one t8 nuke.. /redlol)7) rise singl ward amount to 2500(pvp mode)8 ) rise deathward  ( 2500-5000pvp mode) and make it CAN be cast on defiler semselves9) make wards can be healed with heal spell to its amount10) rise time to live for ward to  40 sec--- stop ranger world -- </span>

G1Joe
12-12-2007, 08:09 AM
<p>To the guy saying defilers are awesome healers for groups</p><p> Yes they are </p><p> in</p><p> PVE!!!!</p><p>In PVP they are not! unless your group is [Removed for Content] [Removed for Content] and leaves the Defiler alone and even then that assumes lowish dps burst from the opposing group. imo Wardens would still be better than a defiler in keeping a group alive in that situation.</p><p>A good group of 5 + defiler certainly doesnt become a bad group it just means that if a couple of swashies target the defiler its all over pretty much.</p><p>Something definately needs to be done. Not to make defiler number 1 in solo - lol [Removed for Content] me theyd have to completely change the class to do that! But just a couple of tweaks.</p>

XeroXs84
12-12-2007, 08:24 AM
Sorry guys but beeing interrupt is not the issue... every healer gets interrupted, druids maybe a bit less due to shorter cast times, still happens tho.dont bother trying to get interrupt immunity, that just wont happen, its part of the game and everyone has to deal with it. Having a proper tank in group helps there alot.however... the fact that your wards are too weak in group pvp is an issue, and there should be something done against it.

Dalwar
12-12-2007, 08:45 AM
Wardens got interrupt/stun immunity - duration 30 sec recast hmm dont remember 3 minutes or 5 ... aa line ... Keep up fighting with soe shoudl give you some bonuses.

Oneira
12-12-2007, 10:13 AM
<cite>Dalwar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wardens got interrupt/stun immunity - duration 30 sec recast hmm dont remember 3 minutes or 5 ... aa line ... Keep up fighting with soe shoudl give you some bonuses. </blockquote>Clerics also get interrupt/stun immunity for 30 secs, as I explained.  They also get 33% casting time reduction to the whole fracking group.  It's just we shamans that get none of this.EDIT:  I was wrong.  Clerics have it even better than that.  the 4th ability in the INT tree gives about a 15% reduction to casting times for 8 points.  The final ability in the INT, Divine Recovery, gives 50% casting time reduction to the whole group and 33% less recovery time for 24 seconds.  This is just incredible.  There is absolutely no excuse for how negligent SOE has been when it comes to shamans.

G1Joe
12-12-2007, 10:39 AM
<p>dont bother trying to get interrupt immunity</p><p>I dont want it that alone is not the problem the issue is Long cast times for weak wards + interrupts is the problem, however that is addressed I dont mind as long as it is. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Splintered
12-12-2007, 11:51 AM
I had figured it out about 2 months ago, but shaman wards are only about 60% of the power of the cleric and druid heals. That means we in reality are only 60% the healer that a druid can be!

Roald
12-12-2007, 01:39 PM
<cite>otrava2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>"<span class="postbody">Maybe a ward increase of 5-10% could be implemented to make sure they are more consistently balanced."wrong againgrp ward can be incrised on 300% but it not come good in pvpit CANT be cast in pvpl</span></blockquote>Sorry, all the defilers i've grouped with or seen videos of don't have the problem you and the other more vocal defilers are having. On my inquis or shares the same casting time I don't have these problems. Sure I get more interrupted than I do on my warden, but not to the extent you are making out.

silentpsycho
12-12-2007, 02:31 PM
Most of the videos you see are of low level defilers in a 1v1 scenario, played back at 10x speed to make it look "exciting".  Pre-warded and pre-RoK, shamen could be formidable advesaries - if the opponent could be convinced to stay around for the whole fight *and* no one jumps in to kill you in the 20 minutes it takes (esp. defiler) to kill anyone.   With RoK, the dps of other classes went through the roof and our wards got, what, a 5% increase over t7?  A typical fight with a solo grey con swashy these days is pretty one sided.

tshook
12-12-2007, 02:46 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>otrava2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>"<span class="postbody">Maybe a ward increase of 5-10% could be implemented to make sure they are more consistently balanced."wrong againgrp ward can be incrised on 300% but it not come good in pvpit CANT be cast in pvpl</span></blockquote>Sorry, all the defilers i've grouped with or seen videos of don't have the problem you and the other more vocal defilers are having. On my inquis or shares the same casting time I don't have these problems. Sure I get more interrupted than I do on my warden, but not to the extent you are making out.</blockquote>"I'm not a defiler. but I saw one on TV once!"

Vilesummon
12-12-2007, 02:47 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>Most of the videos you see are of low level defilers in a 1v1 scenario, played back at 10x speed to make it look "exciting".  Pre-warded and pre-RoK, shamen could be formidable advesaries - if the opponent could be convinced to stay around for the whole fight *and* no one jumps in to kill you in the 20 minutes it takes (esp. defiler) to kill anyone.   With RoK, the dps of other classes went through the roof and our wards got, what, a 5% increase over t7?  A typical fight with a solo grey con swashy these days is pretty one sided.</blockquote>I play a conj (which needs some SOE love IMO too), but I can say my experience with shamans scared me away. Years ago, I did the defiler thing (pve because no pvp was up yet), and it was so tedious to kill things in the upper levels. Later on, our family took on a Mystic on the pvp server (NOTSO), and I have to say the same things appear to be true with shamans...no killing power, eternal casting, and highly interruptible. As stated in the thread too, the ward upgrades that were given to the shamans clearly didn't stay in line with the increase in damage that other classes got. If they had lines that increased your casting times or made it harder for you to be interrupted, it would help, but even then you guys still will take a long time to kill anyone so you have to pray the people don't run or you don't get company. This is true for either alignment...you guys are great for raids and groups, but there is something off for the classes in pvp. I will leave the summoner issue alone since this is about shamans who also need love in my opinion.

arrowoffate
12-12-2007, 04:15 PM
<cite>otrava2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>"<span class="postbody">Maybe a ward increase of 5-10% could be implemented to make sure they are more consistently balanced."wrong againgrp ward can be incrised on 300% but it not come good in pvpit CANT be cast in pvplets some explayn:se some situation - one hiter autoatak long spell casting healer. without stun-stifle-mezz-interuptjast autoattack. chanse of interupt with one utoatack-hit around 20% in my opinion1 sec of fight + 2 hit on healer - normal chanse of interupt like 40%2 sec of figth  +2+2 hit on healer - chanse of interupt rise in x2 times chanse unterup                                                        kome to 80%.   3 sec of fight +2+2+2 hit on healer - chanse of interupt rise x3. it come to 120%4 sec              +2+2+2+2 hit. chanse on iterupt - 160%5 sec  ....        +2+2+2+2+2 hit. chanse of interupt - 200%the sheet coming - chanse of interupt rise with non linear progression when rise cast time.it hiperbolic progression  or somthing.we can see spell with cast time 2 sec - have huge chanse to bee interuptedspel with cast time 3 and more sec - totaly cant be casted in pvp. need runfrom swam, root, breack distanse, tank-taunt etc. now turn on interupt-stiffle-stun-mezz abilities..defiler have  4  heal spells with 2 sec cast time. it HUGE chanse to be enteruptedsingl target ward, small singl target heal  and 2 emergency ward insta cast. ITs ALL PVP arsenal of defiler. see here NO ONE ae grp protection-heal.grp heal have 3 sec cast time and casting it in pvp swarm - you get renew spell casting progression bar agayn and ageyn.(pipl not put here big number pve ward. see it at pvp spell-mode)grp t8 ward have not 4000 point it have 3000 points in pvp can be streeped from one targetsingl t8 ward not 2300 point it have 1700 in pvpneed tune PVP  ability of shaman. pve aspect looks balansed now.need revew cast time and amount of ward-heal for sham it need be lowered to end of dru cast timedru cast time 1.0 sec-1.5 secsham cast time need be 1.5-2.0 sec(soe make BIG mistake with this cast timesoe wanna make fast cast - low heal amountlong cast - big heal amount.it maibe good in pve but in pvp it mean:fast cast - can heallong cast - NO heal)1) singl target ward cast time - 1.5 sec2) grp ward cast time - 3.0 sec3) small singl heal cast time - 1.5 sec4) big singl target cast time - 2 sec5) grp heal cast time - 2 sec6) rise grp ward amount to 5000(pvp mode) (it one t8 nuke.. /redlol)7) rise singl ward amount to 2500(pvp mode)8 ) rise deathward  ( 2500-5000pvp mode) and make it CAN be cast on defiler semselves9) make wards can be healed with heal spell to its amount10) rise time to live for ward to  40 sec--- stop ranger world --   </span></blockquote><p>This is coming from a lvl 77 defiler and lvl 73 mystic, someof you guys migth seen my mystic Runnign around solo pvping since i do it 90% of the times  i have 2k+ kills and about 6 deaths at it stands INTERRUP is part of the game live with it, i am not saying  that dosent make me mad but oh well, i live with it what you shoudl really be complaning about its our long casting times  and the little amount of ward it does, 3500 WArds split in 6 ways in pvp aint nothing whats even worst is that  it takes 15 seconds  <span style="font-size: large;">I REPEAT 15 seconds to recast. </span><span style="font-size: xx-small;">5 second cast time is bad enough but  having to wait 15 seconds  to  cast it againg is even worst also WE DO GET A castign spell incress 8% to be correct and it on our KOS Wis line. but 8%  reduction of 5 seconds is 4.80 second castiem now ( sorry  horrid with math) either way dosent help much i DO GREAT soloing i can   go 50/50  killing brigs and swashy, ( AND WITHOUT RAID GEAR) thats solo do i am not  expecting to win every  figth i am not saying i do by no means i do. but its possibel to do so. Wiz and warlock  i kill with no problem  in matter of fact at 72 i killed a lvl 80 warlock just the other day. Coercers i cant kill at all period ( just not possibel for me to do so).  only 2 Sk in my 3 years of playing been abel to kill me so far, fury  are a pain and wardens are fun figth but get me mad when i am winnign and i can root or snare them cause immune to the effects. againg that is solo with my mystic.</span></p><p>   But when i group i cant  do nothign at all to keep my group up, ( this si when the group wards should be revamp or change or the AMout incress or the recast reduce, when a swashy and  do a AOE and  drop my whole group down with just a couple aoes something is wrong, and Warlock Thats juts another whole mosnters. Againg i am not saying  OH WARLOCK ARE OVER POWER no i am not  thats the job of the warlock to do major aoe dmg but a warden can out heal me with either my defiler or mystic ( <span style="color: #0000ff;">specialy now thats  they have so much leather armor that incress heal amount, heal procs, ). </span><span style="color: #ff3366;">a 3500 ward is nothing split  6 ways dosent mater how you do the math. alot of people think that the group wards is 3500 per person is not so  thats 3500 total 3500 divided by 6= 580 ward per person  <span style="font-size: large;">580</span><span style="font-size: xx-small;">  you tell me how that compares to  templar or druids  group heals? which does over a 1k in about 5 seconds. Peopel there is a diffrence between pvp and pve. and 5 second cast in pvp is a long darn time. and 15 seconds is even longer. i say make it so we can cast our group wards ( AND ONLY our group wards) be be cast faster and recast faster or please for the love of Dios increase the amount  of the ward.</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff3366;">____________________________________________0_____ ______________________________________</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff3366;">     Also people saying Scourge is over power you tell me how a spell that only ( ONLY )  take 110 level of beneficial spells overpower  and thats at lvl 80 and does 1k per buff taken away from you, in reality that only translate to 1 or 2 spells taken away from you thats all . so oh wow we can hit for 2k if we get lucky 2.5k-3k. (IF the spell crits).  </span></p><p><span style="color: #ff3366;">   peopel really need to learn  the other class before they start crying, and somepeople need to learn there owen class before opening there mouths and saying stuff they dont know.</span></p><p>Babymice 77 defiler</p><p>micegirl  73 mystic ( queen solo mystic)</p><p>p.s</p><p> Cleric also get 5 second cast times for those that didnt know but they can sure heal a  c load more that us</p>

Notsovilepriest
12-12-2007, 05:22 PM
<cite>arrowoffate wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>otrava2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>"<span class="postbody">Maybe a ward increase of 5-10% could be implemented to make sure they are more consistently balanced."wrong againgrp ward can be incrised on 300% but it not come good in pvpit CANT be cast in pvplets some explayn:se some situation - one hiter autoatak long spell casting healer. without stun-stifle-mezz-interuptjast autoattack. chanse of interupt with one utoatack-hit around 20% in my opinion1 sec of fight + 2 hit on healer - normal chanse of interupt like 40%2 sec of figth  +2+2 hit on healer - chanse of interupt rise in x2 times chanse unterup                                                        kome to 80%.   3 sec of fight +2+2+2 hit on healer - chanse of interupt rise x3. it come to 120%4 sec              +2+2+2+2 hit. chanse on iterupt - 160%5 sec  ....        +2+2+2+2+2 hit. chanse of interupt - 200%the sheet coming - chanse of interupt rise with non linear progression when rise cast time.it hiperbolic progression  or somthing.we can see spell with cast time 2 sec - have huge chanse to bee interuptedspel with cast time 3 and more sec - totaly cant be casted in pvp. need runfrom swam, root, breack distanse, tank-taunt etc. now turn on interupt-stiffle-stun-mezz abilities..defiler have  4  heal spells with 2 sec cast time. it HUGE chanse to be enteruptedsingl target ward, small singl target heal  and 2 emergency ward insta cast. ITs ALL PVP arsenal of defiler. see here NO ONE ae grp protection-heal.grp heal have 3 sec cast time and casting it in pvp swarm - you get renew spell casting progression bar agayn and ageyn.(pipl not put here big number pve ward. see it at pvp spell-mode)grp t8 ward have not 4000 point it have 3000 points in pvp can be streeped from one targetsingl t8 ward not 2300 point it have 1700 in pvpneed tune PVP  ability of shaman. pve aspect looks balansed now.need revew cast time and amount of ward-heal for sham it need be lowered to end of dru cast timedru cast time 1.0 sec-1.5 secsham cast time need be 1.5-2.0 sec(soe make BIG mistake with this cast timesoe wanna make fast cast - low heal amountlong cast - big heal amount.it maibe good in pve but in pvp it mean:fast cast - can heallong cast - NO heal)1) singl target ward cast time - 1.5 sec2) grp ward cast time - 3.0 sec3) small singl heal cast time - 1.5 sec4) big singl target cast time - 2 sec5) grp heal cast time - 2 sec6) rise grp ward amount to 5000(pvp mode) (it one t8 nuke.. /redlol)7) rise singl ward amount to 2500(pvp mode)8 ) rise deathward  ( 2500-5000pvp mode) and make it CAN be cast on defiler semselves9) make wards can be healed with heal spell to its amount10) rise time to live for ward to  40 sec--- stop ranger world --   </span></blockquote><p>This is coming from a lvl 77 defiler and lvl 73 mystic, someof you guys migth seen my mystic Runnign around solo pvping since i do it 90% of the times  i have 2k+ kills and about 6 deaths at it stands INTERRUP is part of the game live with it, i am not saying  that dosent make me mad but oh well, i live with it what you shoudl really be complaning about its our long casting times  and the little amount of ward it does, 3500 WArds split in 6 ways in pvp aint nothing whats even worst is that  it takes 15 seconds  <span style="font-size: large;">I REPEAT 15 seconds to recast. </span><span style="font-size: xx-small;">5 second cast time is bad enough but  having to wait 15 seconds  to  cast it againg is even worst also WE DO GET A castign spell incress 8% to be correct and it on our KOS Wis line. but 8%  reduction of 5 seconds is 4.80 second castiem now ( sorry  horrid with math) either way dosent help much i DO GREAT soloing i can   go 50/50  killing brigs and swashy, ( AND WITHOUT RAID GEAR) thats solo do i am not  expecting to win every  figth i am not saying i do by no means i do. but its possibel to do so. Wiz and warlock  i kill with no problem  in matter of fact at 72 i killed a lvl 80 warlock just the other day. Coercers i cant kill at all period ( just not possibel for me to do so).  only 2 Sk in my 3 years of playing been abel to kill me so far, fury  are a pain and wardens are fun figth but get me mad when i am winnign and i can root or snare them cause immune to the effects. againg that is solo with my mystic.</span></p><p>   But when i group i cant  do nothign at all to keep my group up, ( this si when the group wards should be revamp or change or the AMout incress or the recast reduce, when a swashy and  do a AOE and  drop my whole group down with just a couple aoes something is wrong, and Warlock Thats juts another whole mosnters. Againg i am not saying  OH WARLOCK ARE OVER POWER no i am not  thats the job of the warlock to do major aoe dmg but a warden can out heal me with either my defiler or mystic ( <span style="color: #0000ff;">specialy now thats  they have so much leather armor that incress heal amount, heal procs, ). </span><span style="color: #ff3366;">a 3500 ward is nothing split  6 ways dosent mater how you do the math. alot of people think that the group wards is 3500 per person is not so  thats 3500 total 3500 divided by 6= 580 ward per person  <span style="font-size: large;">580</span><span style="font-size: xx-small;">  you tell me how that compares to  templar or druids  group heals? which does over a 1k in about 5 seconds. Peopel there is a diffrence between pvp and pve. and 5 second cast in pvp is a long darn time. and 15 seconds is even longer. i say make it so we can cast our group wards ( AND ONLY our group wards) be be cast faster and recast faster or please for the love of Dios increase the amount  of the ward.</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff3366;">____________________________________________0_____ ______________________________________</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff3366;">     Also people saying Scourge is over power you tell me how a spell that only ( ONLY )  take 110 level of beneficial spells overpower  and thats at lvl 80 and does 1k per buff taken away from you, in reality that only translate to 1 or 2 spells taken away from you thats all . so oh wow we can hit for 2k if we get lucky 2.5k-3k. (IF the spell crits).  </span></p><p><span style="color: #ff3366;">   peopel really need to learn  the other class before they start crying, and somepeople need to learn there owen class before opening there mouths and saying stuff they dont know.</span></p><p>Babymice 77 defiler</p><p>micegirl  73 mystic ( queen solo mystic)</p><p>p.s</p><p> Cleric also get 5 second cast times for those that didnt know but they can sure heal a  c load more that us</p></blockquote>Clerics do get 5 second cast time but in the same breath have ways to fix it, There are racials that shamans can get too, AA, EoF Set. We have nothing to speed up casting. How could you say that interupts aren't a problem for use that need fixed? I have tried to get 1 group ward up and been interupted 5 times before it goes up. That is a problem, You will never find a druid that has gotten interupted that much. We do need fixed, Our wards didn't even increase in this expansion really, Its pathetic.

Roald
12-12-2007, 05:28 PM
<cite>tshook wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>otrava2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>"<span class="postbody">Maybe a ward increase of 5-10% could be implemented to make sure they are more consistently balanced."wrong againgrp ward can be incrised on 300% but it not come good in pvpit CANT be cast in pvpl</span></blockquote>Sorry, all the defilers i've grouped with or seen videos of don't have the problem you and the other more vocal defilers are having. <b><u>On my inquis</u></b> or shares the same casting time I don't have these problems. Sure I get more interrupted than I do on my warden, but not to the extent you are making out.</blockquote>"I'm not a defiler. but I saw one on TV once!"</blockquote><p>Inquisitor share exactly the same cast times. they get interrupted just as much, if not more than Shamens.</p><p>''I can't read, but I saw someone do it on TV once!''</p>

Notsovilepriest
12-12-2007, 05:32 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>tshook wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>otrava2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>"<span class="postbody">Maybe a ward increase of 5-10% could be implemented to make sure they are more consistently balanced."wrong againgrp ward can be incrised on 300% but it not come good in pvpit CANT be cast in pvpl</span></blockquote>Sorry, all the defilers i've grouped with or seen videos of don't have the problem you and the other more vocal defilers are having. <b><u>On my inquis</u></b> or shares the same casting time I don't have these problems. Sure I get more interrupted than I do on my warden, but not to the extent you are making out.</blockquote>"I'm not a defiler. but I saw one on TV once!"</blockquote><p>Inquisitor share exactly the same cast times. they get interrupted just as much, if not more than Shamens.</p><p>''I can't read, but I saw someone do it on TV once!''</p></blockquote>You have so much to learn about the healer classes.

arrowoffate
12-12-2007, 05:46 PM
<p>there is no point to argue with you since we are both MYSTICS,  what i am saying is that inturreup somethign with have to deal with  but fi you talkign about stun or knockbacok then thats diffrent. please dont confuse   those things with each other. and yes y agree with you  somethign has to be done but instead of crying about how about some possitive feed back mine was </p><p>1. Reduce casting time and recast time keep the same amount of wards</p><p>2. Incress the WARD amount</p><p>3. Make it so the group ward with protec each person to he same amount  for each person.</p>

tshook
12-13-2007, 12:48 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>tshook wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>otrava2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>"<span class="postbody">Maybe a ward increase of 5-10% could be implemented to make sure they are more consistently balanced."wrong againgrp ward can be incrised on 300% but it not come good in pvpit CANT be cast in pvpl</span></blockquote>Sorry, all the defilers i've grouped with or seen videos of don't have the problem you and the other more vocal defilers are having. <b><u>On my inquis</u></b> or shares the same casting time I don't have these problems. Sure I get more interrupted than I do on my warden, but not to the extent you are making out.</blockquote>"I'm not a defiler. but I saw one on TV once!"</blockquote><p>Inquisitor share exactly the same cast times. they get interrupted just as much, if not more than Shamens.</p><p>''I can't read, but I saw someone do it on TV once!''</p></blockquote>You have so much to learn about the healer classes.</blockquote><p>Heh, ok lets try to not get this thread locked.  Inquis /= defilers.  Temps /= mystics.  You make a valid point, having grouped with other healers in pvp we do ok as long as the other healer has agro.  I can get my wards off. However, if I get agro I am useless and the other healer cant keep me and the rest of the group alive.   I LOVE grouping with wardens, but so does everyone else.  I wonder why?</p><p>Here is a simple test, having only 1 healer in a pvp group, which would you choose?  Even furies will get picked over a shammy (no offence to furies, wish I had pact of the cheetah).</p><p>PVP: </p><p>1. Warden</p><p>2. Plate Healer, or fury</p><p>3. Plate healer, or fury</p><p>4. shammy.</p><p> PVE:</p><p>1. Defiler, plate healer, warden</p><p>2. Fury</p><p>3. Fury</p><p>4. Fury.</p><p>I'll leave it to the fury's to start their own PVE misery thread.</p>

dellaripa
12-13-2007, 01:52 AM
<p>The problem with inequality of group heals for a 51 mystic vs 50 warden.</p><p> Warden: Chlorostorm(master1):level42, cast=3 sec, recast 12 sec.</p><p>              Heals group members for 189-231 instantly and every 2 seconds for 10 seconds.</p><p>Mystic:  Umbral ritual(master2):level 42, cast=5 sec, recast=15sec.</p><p>              Wards group members against 1481 total damage.</p><p>Both these are quoted with PVP scaling.  Notice One is master 1, the other is master 2.</p><p>The Math:</p><p>Warden heals the group for a maximum (using the lower limit) of 6ticksx6group membersx189=<b>6804</b>.</p><p>The Mystic: <b>1481</b>.</p><p>We can talk about interrupts later <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p> Edit:  Sorry defilers, this applies to you too.  I feel your pain as well.</p>

Notsovilepriest
12-13-2007, 03:03 AM
<cite>dellaripa wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>The problem with inequality of group heals for a 51 mystic vs 50 warden.</p><p> Warden: Chlorostorm(master1):level42, cast=3 sec, recast 12 sec.</p><p>              Heals group members for 189-231 instantly and every 2 seconds for 10 seconds.</p><p>Mystic:  Umbral ritual(master2):level 42, cast=5 sec, recast=15sec.</p><p>              Wards group members against 1481 total damage.</p><p>Both these are quoted with PVP scaling.  Notice One is master 1, the other is master 2.</p><p>The Math:</p><p>Warden heals the group for a maximum (using the lower limit) of 6ticksx6group membersx189=<b>6804</b>.</p><p>The Mystic: <b>1481</b>.</p><p>We can talk about interrupts later <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p> Edit:  Sorry defilers, this applies to you too.  I feel your pain as well.</p></blockquote>Outstanding analysis. Way to bring the numbers to life <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

tshook
12-13-2007, 01:56 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>dellaripa wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>The problem with inequality of group heals for a 51 mystic vs 50 warden.</p><p> Warden: Chlorostorm(master1):level42, cast=3 sec, recast 12 sec.</p><p>              Heals group members for 189-231 instantly and every 2 seconds for 10 seconds.</p><p>Mystic:  Umbral ritual(master2):level 42, cast=5 sec, recast=15sec.</p><p>              Wards group members against 1481 total damage.</p><p>Both these are quoted with PVP scaling.  Notice One is master 1, the other is master 2.</p><p>The Math:</p><p>Warden heals the group for a maximum (using the lower limit) of 6ticksx6group membersx189=<b>6804</b>.</p><p>The Mystic: <b>1481</b>.</p><p>We can talk about interrupts later <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p> Edit:  Sorry defilers, this applies to you too.  I feel your pain as well.</p></blockquote>Outstanding analysis. Way to bring the numbers to life </blockquote>Bump

Notsovilepriest
12-13-2007, 09:19 PM
Bumpity Bump bump

Tritonstone
12-13-2007, 09:59 PM
Agreed,  The cast times and ward amounts need to be looked at.

Notsovilepriest
12-16-2007, 02:13 AM
Just wondering, Now with RoK out, Is anyone able to beat a brig one on one anymore? Serious Question to shaman

silentpsycho
12-16-2007, 05:41 PM
I don't know about brigs, but a single green con swashy can kill me in about 3-4 seconds - if I'm not prewarded, even faster.

Notsovilepriest
12-16-2007, 06:01 PM
Yeah, Brigands can use their taunt and it takes off Priest Buffs. They will kill faster IMO <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

moonchild1
12-17-2007, 01:19 AM
<p>Well, I don't know about most of that.  I run a Champion Mystic on Vox.  You just get the "feel" for it.  If i could get my wards off without intterrupts then I would be a Master by now.  As it is I can solo a group of 3 lower levels at the time.  Unless twinks.</p><p>Every class has a class that can beat it soundly.  For Mystic it is Warlock and twink Swashies and Dirges.  I RARELY lose a 1 v 1.  </p><p>Many crying OP on my Scourge but it is almost useless on scouts/fighters.</p><p>My Mystic is great for solo, but agreed that group ward is a little weak to defend group, unless other healers also.</p>

Notsovilepriest
12-17-2007, 01:23 AM
For the Record, I was a General Mystic before I leveled to 80 practically solo. I know how to PvP with my class. I just want do it and Only talking in T8 Terms. I also before T8 didn't lose to Dirges( still don't), or warlocks.

tequiero
12-17-2007, 03:19 PM
<cite>dellaripa wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>The problem with inequality of group heals for a 51 mystic vs 50 warden.</p><p> Warden: Chlorostorm(master1):level42, cast=3 sec, recast 12 sec.</p><p>              Heals group members for 189-231 instantly and every 2 seconds for 10 seconds.</p><p>Mystic:  Umbral ritual(master2):level 42, cast=5 sec, recast=15sec.</p><p>              Wards group members against 1481 total damage.</p><p>Both these are quoted with PVP scaling.  Notice One is master 1, the other is master 2.</p><p>The Math:</p><p>Warden heals the group for a maximum (using the lower limit) of 6ticksx6group membersx189=<b>6804</b>.</p><p>The Mystic: <b>1481</b>.</p><p>We can talk about interrupts later <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p> Edit:  Sorry defilers, this applies to you too.  I feel your pain as well.</p></blockquote><p>Great job on numbers.</p><p>             </p><p>    i have  about 50/50 so far but  its to the bear bones figthing brigs . and only if my emrgencies are up and my mezz and my root. and my freedom of mind (  HMMM alot of if...). what i really think is  bs is that they can debuff everythign but 1 buff ( INCLUDING WARDS). but finaly got almost 2200 kills solo 90% of the time and got my champ tittle  working on getting dreg atm My highest title  so far with ym mystic. and wow i didnt know there was a General mystic alrdy Gratz and i hate you i wanted to be the first i guess i have to work on  master. but also glad to hear there was a general mystic.</p><p>Hmm  never have lost to a Warlock/wizard or a bard to this date. knock on wood. but rangers swashy brigs its a whole diffrent story. And has anyone notice SK are like 100% much harder? or just my imagination? the only reason i say  or talk about  those 3 scout cause pretty much 50% of the pops is those clases shrug. i dodnt even want to talk figthing other healers </p><p>DErvs please look into  the group ward and ONLY the Group ward  i dont think  We askign for to much pretty please with a cherry on top</p>

tequiero
12-17-2007, 04:10 PM
<p>sorry of the topic :  </p><p>Notsovilepriest  i am being nosei and was hopign to see your gear  but acces denied,  may i ask what you wear for pvp?  send me a PM if you dont mind thank you</p>

otrava2
01-20-2008, 11:14 AM
I win the game.ill delete my 80shammy.no more money foe soe )

bladechef
01-20-2008, 03:43 PM
<p><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #009933;font-family: times new roman,times;">I'm going to come clean at the start here and make 2 things clear.  #1 I didn't even read this whole thread before making a post and #2 My highest shaman on any server was defiler on venekor and deleted at lvl 49... so my expertise may be lacking.</span></b></p><p><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #009933;font-family: Times New Roman;">I will elaborate on the afore mentioned #2 for a hot second:  Defiler ownz faces.  Soloing is decent (although slow) and 1v1 they are tough as nailz if played well.  That said,  I'll move on by saying that I agree 100% with the OP here.  The reason I deleted my shaman was because of thier utter lack of ability to heal a group solo.  PvE an amazing healing class.  PvP when grouped with druid or cleric is still pretty [Removed for Content] strong, but completely outshined.  I have T8 warden who's group direct heal AND group HoT can be cast in the same amount of time as a shaman group ward... which does less healing than either of them</span></b></p><p><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #009933;font-family: Times New Roman;">All other things aside the issue is with the inability to cast coupled with the resulting ineffectiveness should you happen to.</span></b></p><p><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #009933;font-family: Times New Roman;">The best idea I have seen so far is the seperate 3k ward per person in group for PvP (in reguards to the group ward).  I don't think it would be all that difficult a fix considering and it also would not affect any part of solo shammies.  Take a moment to reflect on the amount that a druid group HoT potentially heals for in T8.  500+/person/tick(x6 ticks) = 3k/2seconds over a full group OR potentially 18k total heal.  No comparison.</span></b></p><p><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #009933;font-family: Times New Roman;">I will sign the petition to vastly increase Shaman PvP effectiveness.</span></b></p><p><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #009933;font-family: Times New Roman;">srsly</span></b></p>

MalkorGodchyld
01-20-2008, 11:24 PM
<p>      There is so much to be said on this subject & tbh my frustration is moving towards anger...its just irritating to know that the ppl in charge can be that out of touch with the game...simply amazing.   I've posted here...posted on eq2 flames & no im not the only one posting;  there are and have been multiple posts over time but still here we are...NO CHANGE.     No sign indicating that a change is even being considered. </p><p>  Speaking for Defilers the problem isnt just with our group ward.  The problem lies with the class as a whole, stemming from the lack of versatility/options within our spell tree. ( IMO )        My opinion is that devs generally play certain classes that appear more attractive & leave the other classes in the cold.  </p><p>     OR...they generally look at class balance based on the number of ppl playing a specific class rather than analyzing the class itself in detail.        OR...(in leiu of the more interesting abilities some of the Qeynos classes have gotten with the last 2 expansions) an attempt at city alignment balance??       From a healer perspective....heal parses also play a role.     Somebody somewhere is looking at PvE heal parses & making a general assumption for a class, based off those parses.(IMO)  </p><p>     Rather than knowing a class inside out...they use these things to rate what is or isnt balanced.        Assuming that im on the right track, i'd say that devs at times rely too heavily on "numbers". </p><p>      Listen to your player base, because truly...some of us DO understand the classes better than you...why?    Well we play them for hours on end everyday, so we <i>should</i> know them better for that reason, regardless of not having designed them.       The other thing that i wanna point out is that  PvP is NOT PvE...which means the balancing scale is nowhere near identical in some cases.   </p><p>                 ~ Marius Darkchyld ~ ( Marius X )                                                ~  80 Defiler ~</p><p>                      ~ Nagafen ~                                                                          ~ Darkhand ~</p>

Oneira
01-21-2008, 12:39 AM
Thread after thread detailing the reasons why shamans are one of the most disadvantaged and least played classes on pvp servers have been made.  SOE has never acknowledged that there is even a problem here.  Disappointing, very disappointing.  I don't play my mystic anymore for a reason.