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Dojac
12-05-2007, 01:47 PM
I first wanna say that this should be stickied simply as a fair warning to new comers to PvP.  Leveling your first toon on a PvP server is gonna suck.  Thats just what it comes down to, newbies are the low men on the totem poles when hey join a new server.  Being as how you have no time invested in the server you can expect that you are going to be at a great disadvantage to those who do.  My advice: get over it, quick.  The first thing you're probably going to hear about is t2 twinks.  These are players who have some really great gear (which you won't have) and a hell of alot of experience (which you also don't have).  You will be killed by them...hundreds of times.  Again, my advice: get over it.  The fact is you can not expect to do well when competing against an enemy with a vast array of experience.  You're gonna get the crap kicked out of you repeatedly and you might not know why.  The one thing that separates the good players from the bad ones is a willingness to learn.  Every defeat you suffer must be regarded as a learning experience.  You have to always ask the question why was I bested?  What could I have done differently?  The fact of the matter is that you HAVE to work at it.  Don't get discouraged when your first toon on a pvp server lands you with three times as many deaths as kills before you reach 20, the fact is you're a rookie going up against pros, if you expect to succeed you are somewhat delusional.  You have to put forth an effort to learn, to get better.  You have to do your time take your licks and learn as best you can.  My best advice is try and find some kind of mentor.  Someone who will be gracious enough to teach you what they have learned.  You will hear people whine and moan about the twinkers continuously.  They are calling for change where there will never be one.  The progression of this game is designed around questing.  If you lock your xp at 10 and lvl to 80 you will find this to be very true.  The simple fact of the matter is that lvl locking will not disappear because the game is designed to be played without combat xp.  This game is about figuring things out.  Not having things handed to you easy.  If you're getting beat figure out a way to stop it.  Don't lose heart over getting you [Removed for Content] handed to you on an hourly basis.  It happens and has happened to everyone at one point in time.  Those t2 twinks were noobs once too.  They put in effort and time.  They took their beatings and learned from their mistakes.  Most of them also had twice even three times as many deaths over kills on their first pvp toon.  Don't fall in to the cycle of twink bashing.  People have a right to play the game as they see fit.  If they want to bash newbies as bad as they got bashed thats fine by me.  You have that right too, once you earn it.

zorros
12-05-2007, 02:00 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>I first wanna say that this should be stickied simply as a fair warning to new comers to PvP.  Leveling your first toon on a PvP server is gonna suck.  Thats just what it comes down to, newbies are the low men on the totem poles when hey join a new server.  Being as how you have no time invested in the server you can expect that you are going to be at a great disadvantage to those who do.  My advice: get over it, quick.  The first thing you're probably going to hear about is t2 twinks.  These are players who have some really great gear (which you won't have) and a hell of alot of experience.  You will be killed by them...hundreds of times.  Again, my advice: get over it.  Class just ended/work in progress, will edit later.</blockquote>Takes about 3hrs to get past the t2 lvl lockers.Just stay out of the most populated zones.

Spyderbite
12-05-2007, 02:04 PM
On the contrary.. I suggest that players new to PvP refer to <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=377742" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">this thread</a> There are many players such as myself on the PvP servers who are happy to assist people new to PvP adjust to their new environment and avoid such experiences or at least make them less stressful.

Rutaq
12-05-2007, 03:21 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>I first wanna say that this should be stickied simply as a fair warning to new comers to PvP.  Leveling your first toon on a PvP server is gonna suck.  Thats just what it comes down to, newbies are the low men on the totem poles when hey join a new server.  Being as how you have no time invested in the server you can expect that you are going to be at a great disadvantage to those who do.  My advice: get over it, quick.  The first thing you're probably going to hear about is t2 twinks.  These are players who have some really great gear (which you won't have) and a hell of alot of experience.  You will be killed by them...hundreds of times.  Again, my advice: get over it.  Class just ended/work in progress, will edit later.</blockquote>Takes about 3hrs to get past the t2 lvl lockers.Just stay out of the most populated zones.</blockquote><p>LoL.   So new players just need to suck it up ? </p><p>  Well the fact of the matter is that EQ2 ,as well as every other MMO ever made, will constantly be changed, nerfed, adjusted, etc.   If there is a perceived imbalance that gets alot of attention on the forums then it reasonable to believe that the DEVs will  nerf it.   The amount of time or plat you invested in your T2 twink Death Machine doesn't give a guarantee that the over powered [Removed for Content] that you enjoy will last forever.</p><p>   Look at the history of the game since PvP was launch and you will see a common trend...    Players enjoy something that most people agree is overpowered...  Players gleefully abuse the overpowered situation...  Victims flood the forums with complaints and some months later the DEVs make a radical adjustment (nerf) to balance things.   It happened with Necros, EVAC, Dock fights, Zoning, and a ton of the other things.</p><p> T2 locking is just another thing to add to the list of balancing done to make the game better.</p>

wellehad0
12-05-2007, 04:25 PM
<cite>Rutaq wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>I first wanna say that this should be stickied simply as a fair warning to new comers to PvP.  Leveling your first toon on a PvP server is gonna suck.  Thats just what it comes down to, newbies are the low men on the totem poles when hey join a new server.  Being as how you have no time invested in the server you can expect that you are going to be at a great disadvantage to those who do.  My advice: get over it, quick.  The first thing you're probably going to hear about is t2 twinks.  These are players who have some really great gear (which you won't have) and a hell of alot of experience.  You will be killed by them...hundreds of times.  Again, my advice: get over it.  Class just ended/work in progress, will edit later.</blockquote>Takes about 3hrs to get past the t2 lvl lockers.Just stay out of the most populated zones.</blockquote><p>LoL.   So new players just need to suck it up ? </p><p>  Well the fact of the matter is that EQ2 ,as well as every other MMO ever made, will constantly be changed, nerfed, adjusted, etc.   If there is a perceived imbalance that gets alot of attention on the forums then it reasonable to believe that the DEVs will  nerf it.   The amount of time or plat you invested in your T2 twink Death Machine doesn't give a guarantee that the over powered [Removed for Content] that you enjoy will last forever.</p><p>   Look at the history of the game since PvP was launch and you will see a common trend...    Players enjoy something that most people agree is overpowered...  Players gleefully abuse the overpowered situation...  Victims flood the forums with complaints and some months later the DEVs make a radical adjustment (nerf) to balance things.   It happened with Necros, EVAC, Dock fights, Zoning, and a ton of the other things.</p><p> T2 locking is just another thing to add to the list of balancing done to make the game better.</p></blockquote><p>the complete downfall ov every MMO is nerfing... you do not have a MMO around for this long to say forget all your hard work i will take it away so that some noob can be just as good as you.........lvl locking no way will harcore PVP players try to lvl toons to lvl 80 jsut so they can PVP</p><p>im sorry but we need to get out of this trend of if i cant beat them bring them down to my lvl.. just like in th ereal world you have to work to better yourself... you just dont go from being born to making 100k a year  on your first day.. nor should you start your fighting in PVP on equal grounds as peopel who worked along time on there toon...</p><p> STOP TRYING TO TAKE THE LAZY WAY OUT THIS IS A RPG YOU BUILD YOUR TOON OVER TIME NOT OVER NIGHT</p>

deepruntramp
12-05-2007, 05:05 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>I first wanna say that this should be stickied simply as a fair warning to new comers to PvP.</blockquote>MY POST SHOULD BE STICKIED ITS IMPORTANTMMO players' sense of entitlement makes me sick.  There are already three stickied guides that say the exact s ame thing and offer far more insight and information.

Jehue
12-05-2007, 07:50 PM
<p>I wonder why all these self described "hardcore PVPers" don't suck it up and start their new toons from scratch with no twinkage and show the people new to the game how "hard core" PvP is done?</p><p> If someone is twinking and level locking T2 alts on a PvP server then, they are NOT hard-core PvPers.  They are people  who only want to play if they have the all the aces in the deck. </p>

wellehad0
12-05-2007, 08:00 PM
<cite>Jehue wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I wonder why all these self described "hardcore PVPers" don't suck it up and start their new toons from scratch with no twinkage and show the people new to the game how "hard core" PvP is done?</p><p> If someone is twinking and level locking T2 alts on a PvP server then, they are NOT hard-core PvPers.  They are people  who only want to play if they have the all the aces in the deck. </p></blockquote><p>what planet are some of you from.. then why dont they make everybody suck it up and have to start every one of there toons over  everytime new players can not compete.. i guess we should add a server reset butten every time a new player can not hanlde pvp.. for the love of everything good about this game stop trying to act like t2 is such a big problem there are very little new players in the game and T2 ONLY TAKES 3 HOURS TO GET OUT OF.. then what they get to T2 where people hit harder and they die some more.. then what t4 they will be ganked to no end all the way to t8.. get over your self PVP ganks happen at all tiers it might as well ahppen to them right away so that they take time to find out from other players what to do....</p><p>also all it takes is a couple hours farming and you have all the money you need.. trying sunken city and graveyard jsut farm there and you will gett all you need</p>

Jehue
12-05-2007, 08:10 PM
<p>Let me further clarify...</p><p>I am not necessarily against level locking, twinking, ganking, etc .  I am annoyed and at the same time amused by those who think that playing a toon to a high enough level to feed T2 twinks gear and coin are some how <b><u>entitled</u></b> to greif new players to the server.   I didn't say I am against the practice in moderation, I am against the attitude or point of view that new players starting from 0 should learn to like it and if they complain they must not be "hard-core" PvPers.   This is a game and if it isn't fun, people won't play it.  If you create an environment on PvP servers that is unbearable to new players who are trying to get started, then the server will die and unnecessarily early death. </p><p> From my limited experience, opening Timorous Deep creates hope for the new player, because the gear that drops there for T2 newbie's is good enough that we can at least fight back.  It is part of a solution.  The situation where the T2 newbie is killed in three rounds without even scratching the twinked-out enemy will eventually result in a lot of /delete -> look for new server/game.</p><p>By all means, go ahead and twink your T2 alts.  I have in other games and I would in this one, but consider the consequences of griefing new players who are running around in ragged quest gear with rusty daggers for weapons.  Too much greifing and there will not be any newbie's to farm.  Kill them and move on.  Perhaps find a fair fight... it might actually be fun!</p>

Dojac
12-06-2007, 05:31 AM
<cite>Jehue wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Let me further clarify...</p><p>I am not necessarily against level locking, twinking, ganking, etc .  I am annoyed and at the same time amused by those who think that playing a toon to a high enough level to feed T2 twinks gear and coin are some how <b><u>entitled</u></b> to greif new players to the server.   I didn't say I am against the practice in moderation, I am against the attitude or point of view that new players starting from 0 should learn to like it and if they complain they must not be "hard-core" PvPers.   This is a game and if it isn't fun, people won't play it.  If you create an environment on PvP servers that is unbearable to new players who are trying to get started, then the server will die and unnecessarily early death. </p><p> From my limited experience, opening Timorous Deep creates hope for the new player, because the gear that drops there for T2 newbie's is good enough that we can at least fight back.  It is part of a solution.  The situation where the T2 newbie is killed in three rounds without even scratching the twinked-out enemy will eventually result in a lot of /delete -> look for new server/game.</p><p>By all means, go ahead and twink your T2 alts.  I have in other games and I would in this one, but consider the consequences of griefing new players who are running around in ragged quest gear with rusty daggers for weapons.  Too much greifing and there will not be any newbie's to farm.  Kill them and move on.  Perhaps find a fair fight... it might actually be fun!</p></blockquote>I don't think anyone is saying they gotta learn to like it.  What we're saying is they gotta learn to deal with it.  Just like I dealt with it and the people I leveled up with dealt with it.  Its a harsh fact of life on pvp servers the newbs are gonna get killed by the twinks.  I'm making sure its out in the open and tellin em not to feel sour about it.Your last paragraph more or less cuts to the point of this thread and why I think something like this should be stickied.  Let the people know what they're getting into.  I figure by flat out telling em not to expect to do well initially gives em something to work towards rather than having them think its just some obstacle they can't overcome.  And define fair fight....My definition is any in game fight which does not use exploits or hacks.  (8 on 1 is just as fair as 1 on 1).

Jaggid
12-06-2007, 12:49 PM
<p>Dojac could not have said this more perfect and this does need to be a sticky for newbs.  Once newbs get past this part of the game and accept it, the game gets way more fun.</p><p>And please for the love of all that is holy, stop using the word griefing!  You choose to play a PvP server, do you expect someone (or group) to not kill you?  If you don't like or can't handle PvP, there are lots of other servers to choose from, this isn't Burger King.</p>

Roald
12-06-2007, 12:53 PM
<cite>Jehue wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I wonder why all these self described "hardcore PVPers" don't suck it up and start their new toons from scratch with no twinkage and show the people new to the game how "hard core" PvP is done?</p><p> If someone is twinking and level locking T2 alts on a PvP server then, they are NOT hard-core PvPers.  They are people  who only want to play if they have the all the aces in the deck. </p></blockquote>/agree

Elephanton
12-06-2007, 01:09 PM
LOL! Funny how twinks started to show how they really care about noobs all of the sudden... a few fancy guides to T2 PVP appeared all in one day... Interestingly enough, this only happened after devs announced that they are fixing level locking on PVP server <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Jaggid
12-06-2007, 01:16 PM
<cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote>LOL! Funny how twinks started to show how they really care about noobs all of the sudden... a few fancy guides to T2 PVP appeared all in one day... Interestingly enough, this only happened after devs announced that they are fixing level locking on PVP server <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15"></blockquote>Do you mind linking that annoucement, I am not seeing it in any of the forums.

Naglfar
12-06-2007, 01:19 PM
<p>Dev tracker tool is your friend.</p><p>And the post has been quoted and linked all around this forum too.</p><p>edit : <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=30&topic_id=396380" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=396380</a></p>

Grimfort
12-06-2007, 01:53 PM
Can a moderator not merge all these "new player" threads together, or at least delete the last 50 repetative ones...

Jaggid
12-06-2007, 07:02 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Dev tracker tool is your friend.</p><p>And the post has been quoted and linked all around this forum too.</p><p>edit : <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=30&topic_id=396380" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=396380</a></p></blockquote>Thank you for the link.  If someone knows where to find the link, it is easier for them to provide it than to look through dev tracker.

Dojac
12-07-2007, 03:27 AM
<cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote>LOL! Funny how twinks started to show how they really care about noobs all of the sudden... a few fancy guides to T2 PVP appeared all in one day... Interestingly enough, this only happened after devs announced that they are fixing level locking on PVP server <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /></blockquote>Lol, how is this a guide?  I'm just tellin em they're gonna get their [Removed for Content] kicked repeatedly.  BTW, I do have a twink but he gets very little playing time, I find it somewhat boring.  Funny thing is I didn't even know bout the locking situation until today.  Just tellin em what to expect.

Spyderbite
12-07-2007, 03:36 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Just tellin em what to expect.</blockquote>Or what they don't have to expect for much longer. Instead of rushing to level beyond the twinks.. all they have to do is wait for the level locking twinks out level them! XD