Raid Viablility

[Scillion]

Ok, I did a search on the forums and its been over a year since this has been discussed.From EQ 1 i raided as a ranger From Veeshans Peak (Kunark) through Yar Lir (Dragons of Norrath), My raid roles changed through each expansion to some extent but always did the same thing, Root mezzed mobs, snare mezzed mobs, Heal the healers/CC, melee dps (for a short time range dps in luclin pop through elemental zones, Plane of Time melee dps again). Mob Placement (pull off FD monk or sk).Now what is our role in EQ 2 as a proud ranger of karana, i understand our dps is all ranged (i have extend range 15% so using heavier damage arrows). I am getting to the point of raiding with my guild and want to know the role.Thanks

[Zechariah]

<p>In eq2 you will have about 0 heal responsibilities (unless you worship tunare and get blessings/miracles but its not really viable for a ranger, they only have 1 or 2 charges and tunare isnt the ideal deity to worship for us).  Our dps isnt "all" ranged.  I consistently raid 2-3 times a weekend and find that i do better on parses if I joust in and out using my poison aa abilities, constantly rinse and repeat with my dots and keep the hawk up (and grandmaster poisons), but our <u>major</u> source of dps <i>is</i> ranged.  but basically your only role in a raid is dps.  for a short time we could pull from quite a distance avoiding social aggro with our lvl 70 Surveil, but thats been fixed.  I was once asked to pull Tarinax with miracle arrow but by the time i got in range to use it he saw me and all i did was body pull him.  The better rooters in this game come from players like wardens now, they have 2, a single and group root (with a quick recast too).  but as far as croud control goes, mezzers are in demand in eq2.  As a ranger, you really wont be asked to do anything, except for maybe to be the main assist.</p>

[Mirdo]

<p>Well, on a raid we are pretty much there for raw DPS. The majority of this will come from your bow autoattacks and ranged combat arts. Melee combat arts are used as fillers between autoattack shots when your high dps ranged CA's are down.</p><p>If you raid much, it can be an expensive class to play as we have to pay for both arrows and poisons - depends what you consider expensive really..</p><p>We don't bring much utility to a raid, a little more to a group depending on grp makeup and skills of the players.</p>

[Vifarc]

<cite>Sadly, the EQ2 raiding-ranger role is 90% ranged-dps, 9% melee-dps.But as a solo player, it has improved: Now you have SafeFall (great!), and you can camo ('stealth' ) also in dungeons (hum, dungeons are actually no longer for solo players), but you loosed Forage, Damage-Shields, (I want it back) WaterBreathing, (want it back, although we can breath from an Heritage Quest) Healing, (want it back) SOW (Pathfinding is too slow: welcome wolf-totem or EoF AAs)Gaieus@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>From EQ 1 i raided as a ranger , My raid roles changed  to some extent but always did the same thing, Root mezzed mobs, snare mezzed mobs, Heal the healers/CC, melee dps (for a short time range dps ). Mob Placement (pull off FD monk or sk).Now what is our role in EQ 2 as a  ranger , i understand our dps is ranged . I am getting to the point of raiding with my guild .</blockquote>

[TheSpin]

<p>An eq1 ranger is a hybrid of a druid/fighter.  An eq2 ranger is a ranged scout.  Rangers probably changed more from eq1 to eq2 than any other class.</p><p>Ranged dps is basically your only function in a raid.  I'm sure people have mixed feelings about the change in rangers from eq1 to eq2, but I personally think it's cool to have so many bow related attacks.  Rangers are the only ranged dps class that doesn't cause their damage through nukes so it's definately a unique class in eq2.</p><p>I also wanted to mention, in regards to someone's mention above that eq2 rangers 'lost' SoW....pathfinding is an equivalent and rangers can run faster than any other class over the longest period of time.</p>

[Scillion]

Thank you for the responses, and yea the hybrid is the reason i chose the ranger in EQ 1, I truly enjoyed the utility function of the ranger, I am not a care in the world about dps (stats are not my main concern defeating the raid guy is).I miss the world of utility and hybrids I guess, but will always be a Ranger.

[Vifarc]

<cite>Welcome mate!I almost take all non-ranged-dps AAs, feeling I am already enough a bowman. And that's great with all playstyles but raiding. (I'm a "tanking ranger", maybe the only one in Norrath).That's nice with RoK we would have an alternate set of AAs, in case I go raiding.</cite><cite>Gaieus@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>Thank you for the responses, and yea the hybrid is the reason i chose the ranger in EQ 1, I truly enjoyed the utility function of the ranger, I am not a care in the world about dps (stats are not my main concern defeating the raid guy is).I miss the world of utility and hybrids I guess, but will always be a Ranger.</blockquote>

[Bee]

<cite>TheSpin wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>An eq1 ranger is a hybrid of a druid/fighter.  An eq2 ranger is a ranged scout.  Rangers probably changed more from eq1 to eq2 than any other class.</p><p>Ranged dps is basically your only function in a raid.  I'm sure people have mixed feelings about the change in rangers from eq1 to eq2, but I personally think it's cool to have so many bow related attacks.  Rangers are the only ranged dps class that doesn't cause their damage through nukes so it's definately a unique class in eq2.</p><p>I also wanted to mention, in regards to someone's mention above that eq2 rangers 'lost' SoW....pathfinding is an equivalent and rangers can run faster than any other class over the longest period of time.</p></blockquote>I have played a ranger since I started eq2.  While I haven't put any AA points into making my running faster, my fae trouby runs (no mount, but using JBoots) ALL THE TIME at 62%.  That isn't sprint.  That isn't limited to 1, 5, 15, or even 30 minutes- that is 62% until canceled (or I get hit by a mob, then I slow down to 57%- ouch.).  Is there any other class that can go that fast without sprinting?  When I get back on my ranger and cruise along at 15%- 25% with Jboots, I remember that I have to get on a mount to run at any meaningful speed.  I don't even sprint as fast as my Troub runs.

[jarlaxle8]

<cite>Beele@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>TheSpin wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>An eq1 ranger is a hybrid of a druid/fighter.  An eq2 ranger is a ranged scout.  Rangers probably changed more from eq1 to eq2 than any other class.</p><p>Ranged dps is basically your only function in a raid.  I'm sure people have mixed feelings about the change in rangers from eq1 to eq2, but I personally think it's cool to have so many bow related attacks.  Rangers are the only ranged dps class that doesn't cause their damage through nukes so it's definately a unique class in eq2.</p><p>I also wanted to mention, in regards to someone's mention above that eq2 rangers 'lost' SoW....pathfinding is an equivalent and rangers can run faster than any other class over the longest period of time.</p></blockquote>I have played a ranger since I started eq2.  While I haven't put any AA points into making my running faster, my fae trouby runs (no mount, but using JBoots) ALL THE TIME at 62%.  That isn't sprint.  That isn't limited to 1, 5, 15, or even 30 minutes- that is 62% until canceled (or I get hit by a mob, then I slow down to 57%- ouch.).  Is there any other class that can go that fast without sprinting?  When I get back on my ranger and cruise along at 15%- 25% with Jboots, I remember that I have to get on a mount to run at any meaningful speed.  I don't even sprint as fast as my Troub runs.</blockquote>I'm a Ranger and run (with JBoots) at 63% or some such. Normal running, not sprinting. All the time. I'm not even a Fae, so without racial bonus. If you really play a Ranger, you would know that we can enhance Pathfinding with AP.

[Odysia]

<p><i>"Thank you for the responses, and yea the hybrid is the reason i chose the ranger in EQ 1, I truly enjoyed the utility function of the ranger, I am not a care in the world about dps (stats are not my main concern defeating the raid guy is).I miss the world of utility and hybrids I guess, but will always be a Ranger."</i></p><p>Sorry, but you will be sadly dissappointed. A ranger has zero utility compared to eq1. Your role in a raid is to deal DPS, and you'll struggle to even do that very well compared with other classes, and you'll pay a fortune to do it. Frankly, raiding with my ranger is like watching paint dry.</p><p> My advice? If you want utility forget about your ranger and level up that shadowKnight of yours, or betray to a Paladin.</p>

[EomerFarst]

<cite>billchivers wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><i>"Thank you for the responses, and yea the hybrid is the reason i chose the ranger in EQ 1, I truly enjoyed the utility function of the ranger, I am not a care in the world about dps (stats are not my main concern defeating the raid guy is).I miss the world of utility and hybrids I guess, but will always be a Ranger."</i></p><p>Sorry, but you will be sadly dissappointed. A ranger has zero utility compared to eq1. Your role in a raid is to deal DPS, and you'll struggle to even do that very well compared with other classes, and you'll pay a fortune to do it. Frankly, raiding with my ranger is like watching paint dry.</p><p> My advice? If you want utility forget about your ranger and level up that shadowKnight of yours, or betray to a Paladin.</p></blockquote><p>I'd say that we have more viability that Paladin lol.</p><p> With good kit and the proper buffs the DPS a ranger can put shouldn't be that much a struggle.  If you want to compare a Paladins tanking skills to Ranger DPS skills its an easy choice who is the more used raid class.</p><p>The only utility Paladin's bring to a raid is Amends, their heals aren't mentioning and even with spell crits DPS is bad.  Shadowknights with Death March are great for a lot of classes.</p>

[Odysia]

<p>Say what Eomer?</p><p> Seriously, you're saying the only utility a Pal has is Ammends? And you dismiss their healing?</p><p>You could argue the toss about whether Paladins are ultimately any good or not, but they have way more utility than you give them credit for, especially in the role of secondary tank. Lets look at what an appropriately  specced Pal can do, I'll spell it out for the benifit of the Original poster:</p><p>Buff the MTs mitigation.</p><p>Give the MT an extra avoidance roll.</p><p>Ward MT.</p><p>Intercept some of the damage going to the MT, and self heal it by the Pal dealing out DPS.</p><p>(Stack that lot up and you have a significantly tougher MT and reduced load on the healers which in turn allows them to put out some DPS if the circumstances warrant it.)</p><p>Now lets look at the other abilities and buffs, most of which are premanent:</p><p>Drain a proportion of hate on an ongoing basis from whoever has the  most agro problems (ammends).</p><p>Drain hate from the entire group if required, for a decent chunk of time, to get things back under control.</p><p>Heal - quite a lot. I have a Pal, and if I go into full on emergency healing mode I parse about 40% the healing output of a dedicated healer, and thats not counting the healing buffs applied to the entire raid (see below)</p><p>Buff a divine proc on the whole group.</p><p>Buff the whole raids wisdom.</p><p>Increase every healing spell in the whole raid by a fixed ammount.</p><p>Resurrect (ideal battle res, avoids the main healers getting distracted).</p><p>Buff ALL wards, ALL spell damage, ALL melee damage, ALL heals in the group by a percentage.</p><p>Increase Group in-combat power regen.</p><p>Increase group in-combat health regen.</p><p>Now lets get into more general stuff:</p><p>Multiple stuns and interupts.</p><p>Pick up adds or peal them of a healer with rescue and/or a large selection of AE, Off tank.</p><p>And last but not least... go offensive and just dish out some DPS. Admittably, no where near many scout classes (if well equiped Ranger) but still a respectable ammount.</p><p>In summary, Paladins have HUGE raid utility compared to a Ranger.</p><p>And theres the rub. The whole premise of your statement hinge's on the good kit and appropriate buffs. If you are merely averagely equiped, you'll likely be in the odds and sods groupand will be lucky to get decent buffs.</p><p>I have a PAL and a RNG that are very close in level / AA terms, and have roughly similar equipment and spell/combat art quality. I raid, not hardcore, but regularly. The fact is it a real mission to consistently do good DPS, I can out perform comparable tanks by a small but definite margin, but pale into insignifigance compared to Swashys. Now you might say I'm a tool that doesn't know how to play the game, but its the same tool at the keyboard when I take my Pal instead of my ranger and the overall DPS is still very respectable (although the my ranger can obviously put out a bigger peak).</p><p>Basically, I see people on the Pal forums whining about how gimped they are, and I compare the two classes and realise they have no clue about what gimped means, If you hear Pals saying they are gimped, don't believe it, not in absolute terms anyway.</p><p>But by and large, this is all irrelvant. Maybe paladins are useless (though I suggest the list above would say otherwise), but they certainly have a lot more utility.</p><p>Bear in mind the OP said he loved the utility of an EQ1 ranger, My reponse is that an EQ2 ranger does not have that utility is most certainly true. And given the classes on the OPs signature, I stand firm in the opinion that he will get a lot closer to the busy / fun experience with a crusader, swaping from DPS to CC to healing to rezzing, than he will with a ranger (do DPS do DPS do DPS)</p><p>I've played rangers in RPGs for the best part of 30 years, and I can honestly say that the EQ2 incarnation is the most lacklustre one ever. I did a quick study of EQ2 players. As a percentage of toons in existance, Rangers have the lowest proportion at the level cap (70 when I did it). It seems I'm not the only one that think rangers lack something. Doesn't mean they can't be fun, and I'm not going to reroll mine, but they aren't what they were in EQ1 and the Original Poster might be wise to recognise that early (level 52 is still pretty early) rather than be dissapointed later.</p>

[EomerFarst]

<p>Utility and viability are two different things</p><p>Rangers are there to DPS so we're not given much utility for raids.  The Bard classes are their for utility and buffs etc.</p><p>Yes a Pally can ward the MT but so can a Defiler and their much better at it.   Paladin's can heal to make up for their lack of defence but still their heals are not great.</p><p> I don't know any guild on my server who use Pallys as MA unless they Zerker or second Gaurdian is AFK.  All they seem to be used for is putting Amends on one the DPS classes.   Every fighter class can intercept damage, taunt adds from a healer and rescue  and its no big deal that Pallys do also.</p><p>I have friends who played Paladins in raid guilds and ended rolling Rangers because the class was wanted more than a third tank class.  Just because Rangers had utility in EQ1 doesnt mean it will carry over to the sequal.  EQ2 class system was designed to give each class a specific role and the Predator class was designed only to be DPS and nothing else .</p>

[Scillion]

I was asking about viability, as we are not a utility class. There are many dps classes in this game that are preferred on raids (the guild i am in has usually 1 spot open dps and 1 spot for a ranger). I again want to thank you all for your comments.

[Zechariah]

Since RoK my Ranger can run at 71%...till cancelled.  That's because he is a half elf though.  Half elves received forest walk which increased there speed by 5%.  Since I was already at 66 it jumped to 71.  I guess if movement speed is important to you half elf is the race to go with.