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opteius
10-15-2007, 07:28 AM
I am an MMO vetran, I am not new botting, but I never expected to see it in eq2.Last night, I was messing around in Fallen Gate and in Wailing Caves, and [I cannot control my vocabulary] these places were literally filled with at least four packs of botted players running around killing literally every mob in sight.This scared me. I am just returning to eq2, but after a major stint in Lineage2 last year, which has thousands of these bot packs and the economy is so out of wack that players are literally forced to buy platinum or the game is just unplayable. If this is the norm - well I should quit now.Is this what I have to look forward to when at endgame? I reported several of these bot chars, the ones at the front of the pack, but when I logged in this morning - sure enough, they are still there!

Gorpier
10-15-2007, 07:51 AM
Yep, they are terrible.  I see less of them now though than I did a few months ago.  I've also found that sometimes now, if you ask them to stop killing every living thing they will.  Never would have occured to me to do so, but a friend said to give it a try, and it does seem to work <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I was surprised.I also see less of them in higher levels than I did in the lower levels.  Could be that I have just had good luck and missed them, but *shrug*  I don't know for certain.  I see them most often in places like you've mentioned.. WC, FG,  TS.. but it seems to thin out considerably after that.. except for OOB.  It seems to always have bot groups.

opteius
10-15-2007, 07:53 AM
It just seems so blatent and obvious, I dont understand why those accounts are not banned right away.

Gorpier
10-15-2007, 08:02 AM
I think many of them are.  But when you have not just one company paying them, but several 1000, an account gets banned, they open a new one and keep right on going.  I dont' know how it works with credit cards or whatever.. I'd imagine they pay with paypal or game cards and use different account names..  but that could be totally wrong.But nonetheless... it stinks worse than 6 month old gym socks that have never been washed.

Ama
10-15-2007, 09:37 AM
<cite>opteius wrote:</cite><blockquote>I am an MMO vetran, I am not new botting, but I never expected to see it in eq2.Last night, I was messing around in Fallen Gate and in Wailing Caves, and [I cannot control my vocabulary] these places were literally filled with at least four packs of botted players running around killing literally every mob in sight.This scared me. I am just returning to eq2, but after a major stint in Lineage2 last year, which has thousands of these bot packs and the economy is so out of wack that players are literally forced to buy platinum or the game is just unplayable. If this is the norm - well I should quit now.Is this what I have to look forward to when at endgame? I reported several of these bot chars, the ones at the front of the pack, but when I logged in this morning - sure enough, they are still there!</blockquote><p>Well the bots fear me on Kithicor cause they know if they see me i'll report them.  Worst zone I saw them in was Ruins of Varsoon where there were 2-3 groups of 6 botters.  Luckily they got taken care of quite promptly.  </p><p>Sadly the only real thing you can do is report these people.  Worst thing is since the developer's in their "Infinite" wisdom "Fixed" the status items that's been the new trade for botters.  They concentrate on T7 and even T8 items selling em off.  I've seen some people selling off T7 status items for 1-3g a pop. </p>

Amphibia
10-15-2007, 09:41 AM
Annoying isn't it? Ever wanted to just... kill them? In game, of course. It is possible some places. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

Spyderbite
10-15-2007, 10:23 AM
<cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote>Annoying isn't it? Ever wanted to just... kill them? In game, of course. It is possible some places. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>QFT.. Its just one of the benefits I enjoy while playing on a PvP server. PvE servers were introduced to the MMO community to remove the Risk from the game so that players could monster bash in an absolute Eutopian risk free environment. Unfortunately, nobody back then had the foresight to realize that this was an open invitation for farmers to invade the games with their scripts and 1000's of accounts.Player Justice is the only weapon in battling the bots/farmers. But, since ya can't have your cake and eat it too.. its just something that people are going to have to live with. Its the trade off one makes when they choose a PvE server over a PvP server.Please note.. I'm not saying PvE is a bad thing. But, there are always going to be consequences regardless of which play style one chooses. Its just a matter of deciding which is more of an interruption to your game play. Other players killing you or Bots stealing your mobs.

liveja
10-15-2007, 10:31 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>Its just a matter of deciding which is more of an interruption to your game play. Other players killing you or Bots stealing your mobs.</blockquote><p>Well, I can't really make that decision, because I don't play on PvP servers.</p><p>However, I think I can safely say this: my game play on Mistmoore has not been affected to any serious degree by "bots". But if I played on a PvP server, I'd be getting interrupted by other players constantly. & that is why I don't play on PvP servers anymore.</p><p>If I want PvP, I'll play a REAL PvP game, like some FPS game or something, on REAL PvP servers, that I can play FOR FREE. I'm not about to pay a monthly fee to make myself a target.</p>

Spyderbite
10-15-2007, 11:00 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>I'm not about to pay a monthly fee to make myself a target.</p></blockquote>Fair enough. And PvP is definitely not for everyone. But, it is an option for those who get so frustrated with bots that they feel helpless and that their game play is being ruined.

Beldin_
10-15-2007, 11:14 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite> <p>QFT.. Its just one of the benefits I enjoy while playing on a PvP server. PvE servers were introduced to the MMO community to remove the Risk from the game so that players could monster bash in an absolute Eutopian risk free environment. Unfortunately, nobody back then had the foresight to realize that this was an open invitation for farmers to invade the games with their scripts and 1000's of accounts.</p></blockquote><p>Play Lineage 2 .. its open PvP .. and you will see more farmer then you have ever dreamed of. If you kill them they just laugh at you because so they don't have to manually level down. And of course they will come back with more and bigger characters to kill you as long as you stop playing at "their" spots.</p><p>And if you don't want to see Farmers .. learn german and play on Valor <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

interstellarmatter
10-15-2007, 11:21 AM
Yep, I've never seen so many bot groups in the game.  They ruin certain zones.  You can petition them and SOE will get rid of them.  But for every one that gets banned, they're 3 more to take his place.  Sony needs to go farther than just waiting to get petitions on these groups.  They need to actively monitor zones and get rid of the botters.  They stepped up to the plate finally with spams..now it's time to step up against bot groups.

Amphibia
10-15-2007, 11:30 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite> <p>QFT.. Its just one of the benefits I enjoy while playing on a PvP server. PvE servers were introduced to the MMO community to remove the Risk from the game so that players could monster bash in an absolute Eutopian risk free environment. Unfortunately, nobody back then had the foresight to realize that this was an open invitation for farmers to invade the games with their scripts and 1000's of accounts.</p></blockquote><p>Play Lineage 2 .. its open PvP .. and you will see more farmer then you have ever dreamed of. If you kill them they just laugh at you because so they don't have to manually level down. And of course they will come back with more and bigger characters to kill you as long as you stop playing at "their" spots.</p><p>And if you don't want to see Farmers .. learn german and play on Valor <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote>Daily scene on Nagafen: (I ninja borrowed the SS from Ratface, EQ2 Flames btw)<img src="http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/myrtelolaf/eq2000169oh6.jpg" alt="" border="0" />

interstellarmatter
10-15-2007, 11:34 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>I'm not about to pay a monthly fee to make myself a target.</p></blockquote>Fair enough. And PvP is definitely not for everyone. But, it is an option for those who get so frustrated with bots that they feel helpless and that their game play is being ruined.</blockquote>Ok, I can live with this solution.  Just make Crushbone PvP so I can kill the bots.  Because there is no way that I'm giving up over 2 years worth of work on my characters.

Dasein
10-15-2007, 12:34 PM
It is not against the rules for one person to control 4 characters, so reporting them for that won't do any good. You might get them on zone disruption, but if you're there to kill every mob in sight, too, that won't carry much weight. At a larger level, RMT is part of the MMO world, and nothing is going to change that, save for a complete reinvention of the MMO, and even then, the RMT industry will likely adapt if there's sufficient demand for their services.

interstellarmatter
10-15-2007, 12:45 PM
<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>It is not against the rules for one person to control 4 characters, so reporting them for that won't do any good. You might get them on zone disruption, but if you're there to kill every mob in sight, too, that won't carry much weight. </blockquote><p>I'm not following you Dasein.  SOE does regularly ban them when they are disrupting zones.  If you petition, I've noticed that they will be gone by the next day.  It's just new ones come up to take their place.  So, I'm not sure what you mean by not carrying any weight.  It is zone disruption to grab up all mobs in an area 24/7 which these people do on a regular basis.</p><p>Saying that there isn't anything that you can do about botters without redesigning the MMO is really a narrow minded view.  Try thinking a little outside of the box Dasein and you'd be amazed at what you can accomplish.</p>

Dasein
10-15-2007, 01:49 PM
<cite>interstellarmatter wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>It is not against the rules for one person to control 4 characters, so reporting them for that won't do any good. You might get them on zone disruption, but if you're there to kill every mob in sight, too, that won't carry much weight. </blockquote><p>I'm not following you Dasein.  SOE does regularly ban them when they are disrupting zones.  If you petition, I've noticed that they will be gone by the next day.  It's just new ones come up to take their place.  So, I'm not sure what you mean by not carrying any weight.  It is zone disruption to grab up all mobs in an area 24/7 which these people do on a regular basis.</p><p>Saying that there isn't anything that you can do about botters without redesigning the MMO is really a narrow minded view.  Try thinking a little outside of the box Dasein and you'd be amazed at what you can accomplish.</p></blockquote>I am not denying that bot groups are banned for zone disruption, but for most legitimate players, the standard operating procedure is to kill everything in a zone, too. Thus, complaining that another group of players is there doing the same thing you are planning on doing is not, in my mind, a valid complaint. Further, I did not specify botters, but rather the RMT industry as a whole, which includes large-scale farming, but also levelling services, account sales and any other sale of in-game items or services for 'real' money.

Killerbee3000
10-15-2007, 01:57 PM
<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>interstellarmatter wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>It is not against the rules for one person to control 4 characters, so reporting them for that won't do any good. You might get them on zone disruption, but if you're there to kill every mob in sight, too, that won't carry much weight. </blockquote><p>I'm not following you Dasein.  SOE does regularly ban them when they are disrupting zones.  If you petition, I've noticed that they will be gone by the next day.  It's just new ones come up to take their place.  So, I'm not sure what you mean by not carrying any weight.  It is zone disruption to grab up all mobs in an area 24/7 which these people do on a regular basis.</p><p>Saying that there isn't anything that you can do about botters without redesigning the MMO is really a narrow minded view.  Try thinking a little outside of the box Dasein and you'd be amazed at what you can accomplish.</p></blockquote>I am not denying that bot groups are banned for zone disruption, but for most legitimate players, the standard operating procedure is to kill everything in a zone, too. Thus, complaining that another group of players is there doing the same thing you are planning on doing is not, in my mind, a valid complaint. Further, I did not specify botters, but rather the RMT industry as a whole, which includes large-scale farming, but also levelling services, account sales and any other sale of in-game items or services for 'real' money. </blockquote>you forget that the zone designs allow for a group or two of fully legit players that are not twinked to completly lock down most zones.... rov? one grou further up and one further down.. then the zone is basically full. re? same. ools? same.Kaladim? same. all those zones can be locked down completly by one or max two groups... so the monopolizing content argument is null and void in my opinion...

Hamervelder
10-15-2007, 02:26 PM
There are ways of killing bots without engaging them in combat, you know.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

liveja
10-15-2007, 02:33 PM
<cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>There are ways of killing bots without engaging them in combat, you know.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>Yes, but on a PvE server, most (if not all) of those methods constitute actionable griefing.

Soldancer
10-15-2007, 02:34 PM
Don't you mix up "botters" with"boxers"? Botters are usually players who are not at their computer and run the char by macros (only useful for crafters). A boxer is a different thing.

Hamervelder
10-15-2007, 02:36 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>There are ways of killing bots without engaging them in combat, you know.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>Yes, but on a PvE server, most (if not all) of those methods constitute actionable griefing.</blockquote>Perhaps.  But then again, so does the domination of content, as well as zone disruption, done by botters.  However, it's always satisfying to report these people... things ... whatever you want to call them, and see a GM show up to kick them.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

liveja
10-15-2007, 02:39 PM
<cite>Killerbee3000 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>interstellarmatter wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>It is not against the rules for one person to control 4 characters, so reporting them for that won't do any good. You might get them on zone disruption, but if you're there to kill every mob in sight, too, that won't carry much weight. </blockquote><p>I'm not following you Dasein.  SOE does regularly ban them when they are disrupting zones.  If you petition, I've noticed that they will be gone by the next day.  It's just new ones come up to take their place.  So, I'm not sure what you mean by not carrying any weight.  It is zone disruption to grab up all mobs in an area 24/7 which these people do on a regular basis.</p><p>Saying that there isn't anything that you can do about botters without redesigning the MMO is really a narrow minded view.  Try thinking a little outside of the box Dasein and you'd be amazed at what you can accomplish.</p></blockquote>I am not denying that bot groups are banned for zone disruption, but for most legitimate players, the standard operating procedure is to kill everything in a zone, too. Thus, complaining that another group of players is there doing the same thing you are planning on doing is not, in my mind, a valid complaint. Further, I did not specify botters, but rather the RMT industry as a whole, which includes large-scale farming, but also levelling services, account sales and any other sale of in-game items or services for 'real' money. </blockquote>you forget that the zone designs allow for a group or two of fully legit players that are not twinked to completly lock down most zones....</blockquote><p>That's Dasein's point: legit groups can lock down zones just as effectively as can any "bot" group, & do so without breaking a single rule.</p><p>Thus, the only option (on a PvE server, that is) is to petition them & let SOE decide whether or not they're breaking rules.</p>

Hamervelder
10-15-2007, 02:41 PM
<cite>Soldancer wrote:</cite><blockquote>Don't you mix up "botters" with"boxers"? Botters are usually players who are not at their computer and run the char by macros (only useful for crafters). A boxer is a different thing.</blockquote>I'm sure there are different terms for them.  The commonality though, is several characters with no human controller auto-following another (usually a tank), possibly controlled by a macro of some sort.  The tank engages a target, and the rest of the group, all piled up in one spot, spam spells until the mob is dead.  They're notorious for dominating content, and ruthlessly training mobs onto players to wipe them out, thereby eliminating any competition for the content.  I report these groups every time I see them, and I usually don't see the same group more than once.  But there are just <i>so many</i> of them, that I don't think the GM's can really police them all.  The Barren Sky (on AB anyway) is absolutely overrun with bot farmers. 

Kaleyen
10-15-2007, 02:47 PM
<cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote>Annoying isn't it? Ever wanted to just... kill them? In game, of course. It is possible some places. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>What you guys don't know is that Amp really meant that IRL, he days PVPing kinda took over how her brain functions <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />-Liluk

Hamervelder
10-15-2007, 02:48 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Killerbee3000 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>interstellarmatter wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>It is not against the rules for one person to control 4 characters, so reporting them for that won't do any good. You might get them on zone disruption, but if you're there to kill every mob in sight, too, that won't carry much weight. </blockquote><p>I'm not following you Dasein.  SOE does regularly ban them when they are disrupting zones.  If you petition, I've noticed that they will be gone by the next day.  It's just new ones come up to take their place.  So, I'm not sure what you mean by not carrying any weight.  It is zone disruption to grab up all mobs in an area 24/7 which these people do on a regular basis.</p><p>Saying that there isn't anything that you can do about botters without redesigning the MMO is really a narrow minded view.  Try thinking a little outside of the box Dasein and you'd be amazed at what you can accomplish.</p></blockquote>I am not denying that bot groups are banned for zone disruption, but for most legitimate players, the standard operating procedure is to kill everything in a zone, too. Thus, complaining that another group of players is there doing the same thing you are planning on doing is not, in my mind, a valid complaint. Further, I did not specify botters, but rather the RMT industry as a whole, which includes large-scale farming, but also levelling services, account sales and any other sale of in-game items or services for 'real' money. </blockquote>you forget that the zone designs allow for a group or two of fully legit players that are not twinked to completly lock down most zones....</blockquote><p>That's Dasein's point: legit groups can lock down zones just as effectively as can any "bot" group, & do so without breaking a single rule.</p><p>Thus, the only option (on a PvE server, that is) is to petition them & let SOE decide whether or not they're breaking rules.</p></blockquote>"Locking down" a zone <i>is</i> against the rules.  Denying other players a fair chance to utilize content is prohibited.  See the code of conduct <a href="http://help.station.sony.com/cgi-bin/soe.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=16213" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">here</a>.  Specifically, the following:<i> 5. You may not disrupt the normal playability of a zone or area. Zone/Area Disruption is defined as any activity designed to harm or inconvenience a number of groups rather than a specific player or group of players. This includes, but is not limited to: -<u><b>Monopolizing most or all of the kills in an area.</b></u> -Deliberately locking groups of NPCs and then breaking the encounter to prevent access to content. -Refusing to cooperate with the other parties at a contested spawn site after having been instructed to do so by an EQII CSR. -Making excessive and inappropriate use of public channels of communications (/shout, /ooc, etc.). -Intentionally causing excessive zone latency (abusing spell effects, etc.). -Causing intentional experience loss to other players (deliberately impeding fleeing players by blocking their escape route, intentionally training NPCs on other players, etc.).</i> Therefore, "locking down" a zone, which I assume to mean dominating content, since you compared the action to bot groups, is indeed against the rules.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Killerbee3000
10-15-2007, 03:32 PM
<cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Killerbee3000 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>interstellarmatter wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>It is not against the rules for one person to control 4 characters, so reporting them for that won't do any good. You might get them on zone disruption, but if you're there to kill every mob in sight, too, that won't carry much weight. </blockquote><p>I'm not following you Dasein.  SOE does regularly ban them when they are disrupting zones.  If you petition, I've noticed that they will be gone by the next day.  It's just new ones come up to take their place.  So, I'm not sure what you mean by not carrying any weight.  It is zone disruption to grab up all mobs in an area 24/7 which these people do on a regular basis.</p><p>Saying that there isn't anything that you can do about botters without redesigning the MMO is really a narrow minded view.  Try thinking a little outside of the box Dasein and you'd be amazed at what you can accomplish.</p></blockquote>I am not denying that bot groups are banned for zone disruption, but for most legitimate players, the standard operating procedure is to kill everything in a zone, too. Thus, complaining that another group of players is there doing the same thing you are planning on doing is not, in my mind, a valid complaint. Further, I did not specify botters, but rather the RMT industry as a whole, which includes large-scale farming, but also levelling services, account sales and any other sale of in-game items or services for 'real' money. </blockquote>you forget that the zone designs allow for a group or two of fully legit players that are not twinked to completly lock down most zones....</blockquote><p>That's Dasein's point: legit groups can lock down zones just as effectively as can any "bot" group, & do so without breaking a single rule.</p><p>Thus, the only option (on a PvE server, that is) is to petition them & let SOE decide whether or not they're breaking rules.</p></blockquote>"Locking down" a zone <i>is</i> against the rules.  Denying other players a fair chance to utilize content is prohibited.  See the code of conduct <a rel="nofollow" href="http://help.station.sony.com/cgi-bin/soe.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=16213" target="_blank">here</a>.  Specifically, the following:<i> 5. You may not disrupt the normal playability of a zone or area. Zone/Area Disruption is defined as any activity designed to harm or inconvenience a number of groups rather than a specific player or group of players. This includes, but is not limited to: -<u><b>Monopolizing most or all of the kills in an area.</b></u> -Deliberately locking groups of NPCs and then breaking the encounter to prevent access to content. -Refusing to cooperate with the other parties at a contested spawn site after having been instructed to do so by an EQII CSR. -Making excessive and inappropriate use of public channels of communications (/shout, /ooc, etc.). -Intentionally causing excessive zone latency (abusing spell effects, etc.). -Causing intentional experience loss to other players (deliberately impeding fleeing players by blocking their escape route, intentionally training NPCs on other players, etc.).</i> Therefore, "locking down" a zone, which I assume to mean dominating content, since you compared the action to bot groups, is indeed against the rules.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /></blockquote>the problem is that you can lock down a zone and still have to wait for the repops to happen... honestly, if one group can lock down a zone its bad zone design. point is, if one zone can be locked down by one group of fully legit legit players with untwinked toons then somethings definitly wrong. and the problem with the eula is the following: you honestly cant expect one group to leave a zone just because another group zones in just because the zone design does not support more than one or two groups being present.

Jesdyr
10-15-2007, 03:42 PM
<cite>Killerbee3000 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>you honestly cant expect one group to leave a zone just because another group zones in just because the zone design does not support more than one or two groups being present.</blockquote>"<span class="postbody"><i>after having been instructed to do so by an EQII CSR." </i>That means your group was petitioned and a CSR has asked you to give them a turn. Till that happens you are not doing anything against the rules unless it is bots. Bots are bad ;P </span>

Spor
10-15-2007, 04:27 PM
Don't even compare this game to Lineage 2 when it comes to End game and RMT.  This game is alot better end game and lvling than L2 will ever be as far as botting and buying accounts goes.  I played Lineage 2 for a long time and eventually left because I saw accounts switch hands so many time and heard of people buying adena so much that it basically made it pointless to try to do anything legit, especially since those who did these things openly almost never were reprimanded.  From what I have seen this game is ALOT better at handling botting and I have yet to hear of people openly buying accounts and plat onnline.  I have never actually seen a bot in this game and have lvled for a few weeks(which is a farcry from Lineage 2).  If you are just trying to get away from the bot problem, stick with it, as it appears this game does actually work to get rid of those who do things illegally.

Haapy
10-15-2007, 08:01 PM
You not really monopolizing anything unless the person who wants a shot at it sends you a tell with his intention. Had a run-in with CSR once when I was killing every named in FG for a few hours (it was empty, at 3 am when I started), apparently invised player wanted a shot at some, but never bothered to sent me a tell, CSR apologized to me and left (at first he was belching fire and pooping brimstone), the person was not online anymore so I went back to what I was doing. Every time I farm, I usually ask passers-by if they need a mob, if they do, I clear out of the area and live them alone. I DO expect a common courtesy of "hey, I'd like to get a shot" before people run off to CSR.

interstellarmatter
10-15-2007, 09:49 PM
<cite>Haapy wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>(at first he was belching fire and pooping brimstone) </p><p> I DO expect a common courtesy of "hey, I'd like to get a shot" before people run off to CSR.</p></blockquote><p>First off, what in the world does that first line mean?</p><p>Next, where did you come from with this?!?  This whole thread was about bot teams running 24/7 in a zone.  Big difference than somebody hunting names in a zone for a few hours.</p><p>Third..don't expect anything in a game.</p>

Tae
10-15-2007, 09:52 PM
There's a lot of bots on Venekor. Everyone knows who they are, because they're killed every day for tokens. But they do get banned. It just takes a very very long time. Usually about a month each, and by that point there's new ones to replace them. Why aren't they removed more quickly?

opteius
10-15-2007, 09:53 PM
<cite>Spor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Don't even compare this game to Lineage 2 when it comes to End game and RMT.  This game is alot better end game and lvling than L2 will ever be as far as botting and buying accounts goes.  I played Lineage 2 for a long time and eventually left because I saw accounts switch hands so many time and heard of people buying adena so much that it basically made it pointless to try to do anything legit, especially since those who did these things openly almost never were reprimanded.  From what I have seen this game is ALOT better at handling botting and I have yet to hear of people openly buying accounts and plat onnline.  I have never actually seen a bot in this game and have lvled for a few weeks(which is a farcry from Lineage 2).  If you are just trying to get away from the bot problem, stick with it, as it appears this game does actually work to get rid of those who do things illegally.</blockquote>Yes, I wasnt implying that eq2 is anywhere as bad as L2 was....but in a lvl 20 dungeon to see more than two groups of botters - one tank with 6 casters bunched together. REALLY brought back bad memories of lineage 2 and the adena farming that went on. I guess I was just shocked that in a game as popular and as well played and known as everquest that I would ever see such blatant abuse. I mean 2 boxing or even 3 boxing is one thing, but all out 6 or 7 chars being botted is very very obvious, and its obvious what is going on. if SOE can handle spam tells, I hope they get on it with banning accounts being run by third parties, I know WoW had an encryption system called the Warden that would check your system process for data being sent to their servers (at least until Sony music sold cds with a Bootkit on it) to prevent botting. I only saw one group of bots in WoW, and that was wayyy back in 2004ish. At some point they just disappeared entirely, if you ever saw more than 2 chars on autofollow it was rare.

Sunlei
10-15-2007, 10:53 PM
<cite>opteius wrote:</cite><blockquote>I am an MMO vetran, I am not new botting, but I never expected to see it in eq2.Last night, I was messing around in Fallen Gate and in Wailing Caves, and [I cannot control my vocabulary] these places were literally filled with at least four packs of botted players running around killing literally every mob in sight.This scared me. I am just returning to eq2, but after a major stint in Lineage2 last year, which has thousands of these bot packs and the economy is so out of wack that players are literally forced to buy platinum or the game is just unplayable. If this is the norm - well I should quit now.Is this what I have to look forward to when at endgame? I reported several of these bot chars, the ones at the front of the pack, but when I logged in this morning - sure enough, they are still there!</blockquote><p> Those places Fallen Gate and Waling caves are both very popular dungeons for their lvl.  Couple of the best for loot,ach., and quests too.</p><p>Regular groups move through a dungeon and clear as they go, some very rapidly.</p><p>Are you sure you aren't mistaking 'faster'groups for automated, 3rd party program 'bots'? </p>

Pathetica
10-16-2007, 03:06 AM
<p>One would normally not mistake "low level groups" with the farmers. A low level group will usually have at least one guilded toon and, most likely, less than perfect components. The farmers are unguilded and obviously have 4 or so on AF. I  mean you can just tell.  Usually tank, fury, wizzie, wizzie or maybe warlock.  If you see one of the farmer groups - /petition them - I do that and lots of times before I even leave the place - RE RoV or OOLS or wherever -  they will poof. </p><p>Pathetica (petitioned for replacement wand as mine is literally unusable because I notch my farmer kills on it).</p>

Tyler9911
10-16-2007, 05:25 AM
i dont really care if people bot, i mean, come on, the game is about doing quests and grouping up and working on ur character. I say let them waste £10 a month just to power level a toon and then get bored. the whole point of the game is to take your time and have fun and enjoy it. I really dont see the point of racing (power lvling) to lvl 70. Shame we got ppl like that in the game, its not exactly a game u rly need to bot on either, i mean lvling aint that hard....

erin
10-16-2007, 11:27 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>One would normally not mistake "low level groups" with the farmers. A low level group will usually have at least one guilded toon and, most likely, less than perfect components. The farmers are unguilded and obviously have 4 or so on AF. I  mean you can just tell.  Usually tank, fury, wizzie, wizzie or maybe warlock.  If you see one of the farmer groups - /petition them - I do that and lots of times before I even leave the place - RE RoV or OOLS or wherever -  they will poof. </p><p>Pathetica (petitioned for replacement wand as mine is literally unusable because I notch my farmer kills on it).</p></blockquote>I'm leveling up a warden/wizzie combo, with my 70 tank.  So I guess I'm a botter because I have 2 chars on autofollow?  Or am I only a botter if I go to RE, ROV, or OOLS?The problem with wide sweeping statements is that they are obviously generalizations and they don't always hold true.Petition away, but I will gladly chat with a GM on any of the 3 chars <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Then again, mine are all guilded, so I guess I'm not a botter.  Woot!

Pathetica
10-16-2007, 11:45 PM
<p>So you say mine are all guilded so I guess I am not a botter? </p><p> Obviously you did not understand my post,  as you may fit one of the criteria, but even close to all so you would not be petitioned.</p><p>I have petitioned many of the groups I described, and they have disappeared. </p><p>I really don't understand your point? Should I not report them because you  take guilded toons with a mentored down tank and casters on AF? What exactly is your point?</p><p> Pathetica</p>

Haapy
10-17-2007, 12:51 AM
What he was saying is that generalizations do not always work. It is a bit harder than following your guidelines to spot a bot group. For example you list unguilded as a criteria, yet some farmers DO form guilds, ask any vet player on Befallen, and one guild's name will come up in particular. Another one is 4 or so toons on AF (making it a 5 man team), yet there are plenty of 3 and 4 man teams as well. You say "less than perfect components" then list a tank, a healer, and 2 high dps classes. How are these not perfect components for fast burning of the zone? If a regular person would pick up 4 boxing, this would be probably one of the easier groups to run (no pesky scouts to position for example).Now when I decide to box my alts through quests or named kills for AAs, I usually run 3-4 characters, all unguilded (I do not guild more than 2 character in any guild I am a member of, and I do not join more than 1 guild at a time). Usually highly strange mix, but always a tank+healer. Since it is a pain to get all characters logged and moved to single zone, I reward myself after completing all quests by hitting named mobs for a few hours. Am I a bot?

erin
10-17-2007, 01:58 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>So you say mine are all guilded so I guess I am not a botter? </p><p> Obviously you did not understand my post,  as you may fit one of the criteria, but even close to all so you would not be petitioned.</p><p>I have petitioned many of the groups I described, and they have disappeared. </p><p>I really don't understand your point? Should I not report them because you  take guilded toons with a mentored down tank and casters on AF? What exactly is your point?</p><p> Pathetica</p></blockquote>My point was that generalizing like this is not always a good idea.Standard bot groups consist of:Tank plus healer plus wizzies.  All unguilded.  All incomprehensible names.  "Everyone" knows this to be true.  But the truth is, some of those groups aren't bot groups at all.  The truth is, that people like me get petitioned by people (maybe not you, but others who are more trigger happy) because any group that is on auto follow and has a wizard in it must be a bot group.That's all.  Wasn't anything big or complicated to it.

Pathetica
10-17-2007, 03:55 AM
<p>Well for you two worrying if you are bots, I just don't know what to tell you. I would assume you would know and not have to ask <u>me.</u></p><p>I suppose the next post will be someone who 4 boxes with a tank fury and two casters -all who were created the same time and have same gametime  names from the random name generator - all unguilded - AND always replies to tells with LOL.  </p><p> Pathetica (I'm just saying...)</p>

Killerbee3000
10-17-2007, 06:05 AM
having names form the random name generator is nothing unsual and absolutly no indication whatsoever if one is a bot or not.... i have never ever had a character with a name that didnt come from the random name gen... sure, i did some quality filtering but still, woudl you prefer everyone running aorund with [I cannot control my vocabulary] names like gandalf gondalf ikillya or tinkerbell because they lack the imagination to come up with something good? andstick your cheap generalizing where the sun doesnt shine....on top of that.. come to my server, report me for botting, send me [I cannot control my vocabulary] tells that i would be a bot because i have so much stuff for sale on the broker, spam the chat channels with accusing me being a bot, try to train me, harrass me... i will laugh at you... why? the only account in danger will be yours, besides that, i long ago accepted that there are haters out there that cant stand that i for box (and no, not guard fury and two sorcerers lol) Go ahead, report real bots, but can you just stop hating legit players?

Zagbab_Dorfbasher
10-17-2007, 08:18 AM
Man, some people are just so testy... <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

DizzyGee
10-17-2007, 08:19 AM
My name, Omage, came straight from the Random Name Generator (as have the names for half of my 20 or so alts)... I was delighted!

SnoesieQ
10-17-2007, 08:35 AM
<cite>Haapy wrote:</cite><blockquote>What he was saying is that generalizations do not always work. It is a bit harder than following your guidelines to spot a bot group. For example you list unguilded as a criteria, yet some farmers DO form guilds, ask any vet player on Befallen, and one guild's name will come up in particular. Another one is 4 or so toons on AF (making it a 5 man team), yet there are plenty of 3 and 4 man teams as well. You say "less than perfect components" then list a tank, a healer, and 2 high dps classes. How are these not perfect components for fast burning of the zone? If a regular person would pick up 4 boxing, this would be probably one of the easier groups to run (no pesky scouts to position for example).Now when I decide to box my alts through quests or named kills for AAs, I usually run 3-4 characters, all unguilded (I do not guild more than 2 character in any guild I am a member of, and I do not join more than 1 guild at a time). Usually highly strange mix, but always a tank+healer. Since it is a pain to get all characters logged and moved to single zone, I reward myself after completing all quests by hitting named mobs for a few hours. <span style="color: #ccff00;">Am I a bot?</span></blockquote><p>Yes.</p><p>I think the issue is not whether or not someone is botting (meaning vary from person to person) but whether or not they are plat farmers/sellers.</p><p>I don't think anyone can set up criterias for what is legitimate gameplay - apart from obvious things like exploiting. Since SOE doesn't think boxing toons is exploiting (using a game feature in a way it was not intended to be used) then what is or isn't a "bot" really is a pointless discussion.</p><p>The plat farmer for selling the plat is a different issue. But that's up to SOE to handle... if and when someone reports a suspected farmer. We can't really judge if someone farms plat to use or to sell as a normal player.</p>

Killerbee3000
10-17-2007, 08:42 AM
<cite>SnoesieQ wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Haapy wrote:</cite><blockquote>What he was saying is that generalizations do not always work. It is a bit harder than following your guidelines to spot a bot group. For example you list unguilded as a criteria, yet some farmers DO form guilds, ask any vet player on Befallen, and one guild's name will come up in particular. Another one is 4 or so toons on AF (making it a 5 man team), yet there are plenty of 3 and 4 man teams as well. You say "less than perfect components" then list a tank, a healer, and 2 high dps classes. How are these not perfect components for fast burning of the zone? If a regular person would pick up 4 boxing, this would be probably one of the easier groups to run (no pesky scouts to position for example).Now when I decide to box my alts through quests or named kills for AAs, I usually run 3-4 characters, all unguilded (I do not guild more than 2 character in any guild I am a member of, and I do not join more than 1 guild at a time). Usually highly strange mix, but always a tank+healer. Since it is a pain to get all characters logged and moved to single zone, I reward myself after completing all quests by hitting named mobs for a few hours. <span style="color: #ccff00;">Am I a bot?</span></blockquote><p>Yes.</p><p>I think the issue is not whether or not someone is botting (meaning vary from person to person) but whether or not they are plat farmers/sellers.</p><p>I don't think anyone can set up criterias for what is legitimate gameplay - apart from obvious things like exploiting. Since SOE doesn't think boxing toons is exploiting (using a game feature in a way it was not intended to be used) then what is or isn't a "bot" really is a pointless discussion.</p><p>The plat farmer for selling the plat is a different issue. But that's up to SOE to handle... if and when someone reports a suspected farmer. We can't really judge if someone farms plat to use or to sell as a normal player.</p></blockquote>nvm... [Removed for Content] dirt cheap haters like you will never understand the difference between boxing and botting and the difference between plat farming for ingame use and for selling it....

guillero
10-17-2007, 08:44 AM
A solution could be so simple to all the botting drama."Dynamic Spawning Table"When mobs never spawn on the exact same spot, or at least not very often. It will become almost impossible or at least very hard to bot script PC's for farming!Farming in EQ2 (and other MMO's) is so easy, because the mobs keep respawning in the exact same spot over and over.If you have a dynamic spawning table, like for example 10 different places for a mob group to spawn at, and throw this in a random counter. It will be a lot harder and a lot more complex for the farmers to farm by botting.With current day technology and wisdom it shouldn't be hard to implement a "Dynamic Spawning Table".Secondly, the AI pathing. Let mobs move around more. This will also create an extra hinderness and challenge for botters!And you know what? The biggest other benefit that comes with it, is that the game world comes more alive and feels more dynamic, then rather being static as it is now.

SnoesieQ
10-17-2007, 08:48 AM
<cite>Killerbee3000 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>SnoesieQ wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Haapy wrote:</cite><blockquote>What he was saying is that generalizations do not always work. It is a bit harder than following your guidelines to spot a bot group. For example you list unguilded as a criteria, yet some farmers DO form guilds, ask any vet player on Befallen, and one guild's name will come up in particular. Another one is 4 or so toons on AF (making it a 5 man team), yet there are plenty of 3 and 4 man teams as well. You say "less than perfect components" then list a tank, a healer, and 2 high dps classes. How are these not perfect components for fast burning of the zone? If a regular person would pick up 4 boxing, this would be probably one of the easier groups to run (no pesky scouts to position for example).Now when I decide to box my alts through quests or named kills for AAs, I usually run 3-4 characters, all unguilded (I do not guild more than 2 character in any guild I am a member of, and I do not join more than 1 guild at a time). Usually highly strange mix, but always a tank+healer. Since it is a pain to get all characters logged and moved to single zone, I reward myself after completing all quests by hitting named mobs for a few hours. <span style="color: #ccff00;">Am I a bot?</span></blockquote><p>Yes.</p><p>I think the issue is not whether or not someone is botting (meaning vary from person to person) but whether or not they are plat farmers/sellers.</p><p>I don't think anyone can set up criterias for what is legitimate gameplay - apart from obvious things like exploiting. Since SOE doesn't think boxing toons is exploiting (using a game feature in a way it was not intended to be used) then what is or isn't a "bot" really is a pointless discussion.</p><p>The plat farmer for selling the plat is a different issue. But that's up to SOE to handle... if and when someone reports a suspected farmer. We can't really judge if someone farms plat to use or to sell as a normal player.</p></blockquote>nvm... [I cannot control my vocabulary] dirt cheap haters like you will never understand the difference between boxing and botting and the difference between plat farming for ingame use and for selling it....</blockquote><p>Did you even bother reading my post?</p><p> Edit: and yes, I did see the original post you made. I see it has been changed. </p>

Killerbee3000
10-17-2007, 08:53 AM
yes i did reading through your post...you know what it looks like to me? <span class="postbody">then what is or isn't a "bot" really is a pointless discussion.especially that part made me jump on you. it makes it sound like you accuse all boxers of being [Removed for Content] bots.</span>

Cuz
10-17-2007, 09:12 AM
<cite>interstellarmatter wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sony needs to go farther than just waiting to get petitions on these groups.  They need to actively monitor zones and get rid of the botters.  They stepped up to the plate finally with spams..now it's time to step up against bot groups.</blockquote>They don't even have to monitor zones. Set a flag on server data for anyone that has ****actively**** been online for more than oh... 72 hours, or from server up to server down, all the time. I feel the need to put an over emphasis on "actively" so to minimize the amount of twits that are going to come and say "Well I sometimes don't log off for days at a time".

Cuz
10-17-2007, 09:14 AM
<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>interstellarmatter wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>It is not against the rules for one person to control 4 characters, so reporting them for that won't do any good. You might get them on zone disruption, but if you're there to kill every mob in sight, too, that won't carry much weight. </blockquote><p>I'm not following you Dasein.  SOE does regularly ban them when they are disrupting zones.  If you petition, I've noticed that they will be gone by the next day.  It's just new ones come up to take their place.  So, I'm not sure what you mean by not carrying any weight.  It is zone disruption to grab up all mobs in an area 24/7 which these people do on a regular basis.</p><p>Saying that there isn't anything that you can do about botters without redesigning the MMO is really a narrow minded view.  Try thinking a little outside of the box Dasein and you'd be amazed at what you can accomplish.</p></blockquote>I am not denying that bot groups are banned for zone disruption, but for most legitimate players, the standard operating procedure is to kill everything in a zone, too. Thus, complaining that another group of players is there doing the same thing you are planning on doing is not, in my mind, a valid complaint. Further, I did not specify botters, but rather the RMT industry as a whole, which includes large-scale farming, but also levelling services, account sales and any other sale of in-game items or services for 'real' money. </blockquote>Difference is that I can usually come to a compromise / deal / understanding with other non-"bot" groups.

SnoesieQ
10-17-2007, 09:24 AM
<cite>Killerbee3000 wrote:</cite><blockquote>yes i did reading through your post...you know what it looks like to me? <span class="postbody">then what is or isn't a "bot" really is a pointless discussion.especially that part made me jump on you. it makes it sound like you accuse all boxers of being [I cannot control my vocabulary] bots.</span></blockquote><p>The absolute vast majority of plat farmers box, they don't run afk macro programs.</p><p>Therefore, discussing what constitutes "a bot" is pretty useless IMO. The discussion started turning towards whether people in the suspected farm group was guilded/unguilded, if they had certain professions, etc. Which is really not leading anywhere.</p>

Amphibia
10-17-2007, 09:37 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote>Annoying isn't it? Ever wanted to just... kill them? In game, of course. It is possible some places. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>What you guys don't know is that Amp really meant that IRL, he days PVPing kinda took over how her brain functions <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" />-Liluk</blockquote>Still not 10k posts yet, Liluk? Slacker! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

doctorbow
10-17-2007, 10:52 AM
<cite>opteius wrote:</cite><blockquote>I am an MMO vetran, I am not new botting, but I never expected to see it in eq2.Last night, I was messing around in Fallen Gate and in Wailing Caves, and [I cannot control my vocabulary] these places were literally filled with at least four packs of botted players running around killing literally every mob in sight.This scared me. I am just returning to eq2, but after a major stint in Lineage2 last year, which has thousands of these bot packs and the economy is so out of wack that players are literally forced to buy platinum or the game is just unplayable. If this is the norm - well I should quit now.Is this what I have to look forward to when at endgame? I reported several of these bot chars, the ones at the front of the pack, but when I logged in this morning - sure enough, they are still there!</blockquote>Bot-crews are always going to exist, and yeah as you've read here you'll see lots of people box'ing in their alt-toons and doing the same things you see the bot crews doing, and for the same reason you yourself went to those zones, and almost everyone does at those levels: primarily, lots of easy kills, and plenty of relatively fast spawning nameds.  It's pretty profitable for it's level.RMT is the issue, however, and the people that sell and buy gold are the real problems, not bot-crews or people that choose to run box'd toons in identical situations.  They'd be impossible to tell apart if not for names like Ohasdfwe or some such.  One might posit that the REAL problem are people that BUY plat, as without those types of ppl, RMT wouldn't exist, and therefore neither would the bot-crews who work for the RMT companies.As far as what to 'look forward to when at endgame'... no real answer to this b/c it depends on what you see as end-game; however, there are very few items of any real worth that can be purchased: Most of the good stuff must be earned by questing or raiding.  People that buy plat are just typically trying to shortcut this process and get the purchaseable stuff in the easiest way possible.  But all of this is STILL earnable the good ol' fashioned way.  The bot crews and game economy REALLY don't have to effect you at all as a player.  Annoying, none-the-less.

zerosumga
10-17-2007, 02:24 PM
Ya know this sorta bugs me. I and my second account very often will run around an area and kill everything. Lots of times i don't talk a lot to other players around unless they ask a question. And all too often jerks will stand around and call me a 'bot'. Well, guess what, neither you nor them have a clue. Sorry if I know how to play the game and don't spam /say just to reassure fools who think their payments for the subscription is worth more then mine.

Jesdyr
10-17-2007, 02:55 PM
<cite>zerosumgame wrote:</cite><blockquote> fools who think their payments for the subscription is worth more then mine.</blockquote>Actually yours is worth 2x theirs since you have two accounts  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> As (i think) Killerbee3000 said, it really doesn't matter what they think as long as SoE is ok thinks what you are doing is ok. If someone is really harassing you then petition them for it. For some reason people think the term "bot" is something new.. It is not new it has been around since the early days of MUDs. In the most basic terms It is a program that autonomously performs a service without any human supervision. The key here is "without human supervision". If someone is pushing buttons telling Boxed characters what to do, then they are not bots.

Valuric
10-17-2007, 04:53 PM
Bah, I just report any group I see.

Kordran
10-17-2007, 05:42 PM
<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>It is not against the rules for one person to control 4 characters, so reporting them for that won't do any good. You might get them on zone disruption, but if you're there to kill every mob in sight, too, that won't carry much weight.</blockquote><p>That's the point. You don't report them for "botting" (i.e.: how they're doing it), you report them for "zone disruption" (i.e.: what they're actually doing). If you are running through Fallen Gate, trying to complete some quests and get updates and they're wiping out everything, then the first thing you should do is ask them to stop. If they do, then fine, no problem. If they don't, then report them and make a point that you did try to talk to them.</p><p>By the way, I imagine that's the reason that many of the farm groups will stop (for a while) if you ask them to. They probably have instructions to stop for a while if other players ask them to, as to avoid their farmbots from getting whacked with the banstick, costing the account owner time and money.</p>

patrickhvr
10-17-2007, 05:52 PM
<p>Nothing wrong with Q bots.  3 in Obliesk lasnight on VOX.  They were Q's we were Freeps.  They had plat on them.  We got plat in our pockets.  They had masters on them we got masters.  Finished out with money and nice masters lots of masters so I'm cool with bots they always seem to have money and goodies on them....</p><p>Oh yeah and LOTS of Plat on them...<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>So we farmed the Bots <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>Awww I love PvP</p>