This is not PVP

[zaltar]

EQ 2 is IMHO the best mmorpg out there but the current state of pvp is way way to imbalanced . I play mmorpg`s for pvp and I came here looking for something better than what Iv`e seen in other games but what I found was a system that makes it impossible to play unless you are grouped ALL the time.I don`t mind that there are groups running around trying to hunt players, having a few kill squads out there adds a certain element of danger to the game but what I do mind is that EVERYONE is forced into grouping because everyone is running around in a group trying to kill anyone who isn`t. Sometimes I play in a group and sometimes I don`t but no one can group ALL the time. I`m not crusading for solo play , I just think there should exist some sort of skills to help players when their in a situation of being outnumbered , this would cut down on the amount of groups that spend all their time hunting lone players and encourage them to fight other groups of equal size and strength.How is it rational to have 5 people with full power , gear , maxed skills , shared buffs and heals , surround one or two players and murder them ?If the game was balanced it would not put people who aren`t  in groups at such a huge disadvantage but as it stands you have 0 defense and 0 offense against more than one player at a time other than to run in pack yourself. What skills does the game give in order to compensate for this type of situation ?There is no power for someone who is outnumbered to attack or defend against multiple attackers and there is no line drawn on how much power a group can use against one person. You would think they would at least give people a fighting chance by either limiting how much a group can do to one person or have some kind of skills that would make it possible for them to survive. They don`t even have offensive skills in this game that will help fight against more than one player at a time , the aoe`s they do have are useless against a group.And why do 5 people feel the need to surround one person and murder them anyway? The won`t even fight against other groups , they only hunt solo players . Iv`e seen 2 groups of opposite sides refuse to engage each other , while one of the groups walks up and kills a nearby solo player the group from the solo players side just watches and does nothing because they only wan`t to gang up on one or two people at a time rather than fight a whole group. People with any sense know that the devs should have created a fair and balanced pvp environment instead of encouraging a gang mentality of non competitive killing .There aren`t really wars between good and bad sides , incentives involving honor or status or anything else that has any substance , it`s all just roving gangs looking for one person to kill who won`t give them any problem because they know there is no way for them to lose .The people who defend the pvp in this game are the same weaklings who run around in gangs murdering people who aren`t. so you have a system that appeals to a handful of losers but won`t be touched by most gamers because it`s imbalanced. If your going to allow it to be possible for 5 against 1 then you need to allow for skills that assist the one person in that type of encounter otherwise all they can do is stand there like an idiot while 5 people get their kicks beating them into the ground , where`s the competition or skill involved ? I mean come ON , at least fight something that gives you a little challenge .Frankly I don`t care about level locking or any other issues but what I do care about is the lack of resources available to assist those who are outnumbered and a game that forces everyone into a gang , a gang that will force others into a gang and the cycle repeats itself . Why are there no skills that will help the person who happens to be caught alone , why would it be so hard to give them some kind of warp that can only be used when facing multiple attackers or a stealth move or even an attack that can kill more than one attacker at a time. Why is it so hard to be reasonable and limit a groups ability to all attack one opponent , it`s pvp for god`s sake , it`s not a raid against some epic mob .Maybe SOE doesen`t realize that more and more gamers are looking for pvp competition in the games they play and the mmorpg`s with the best pvp features are bound to become the most popular , there are alot of people waiting for WAR and AOC for this reason and will not be likely to want to play "King of Candyland " here with the roving bands of wanna be gangster kids who have no purpose other than to harass people because SOE has created an environment that makes it possibe for them to get away with it.When a group comes up on any less than 2 people at a time meaning a solo player and tries to attack, they should get this message " Illegal Target " until SOE figures out a way to give solo players a fighting chance.

[KannaWhoopass]

<p>There is a way for a solo player to stand a chance</p><p>When solo run at the first sign of danger . know you are outnumbered and will die so run. </p><p>If you want to fight .. ok fight and die vs a group perhaps you like that . </p><p>If you want to PvP on a PvP server full of people who group up to max their survival chance .. </p><p>Well that leaves you with the option .. of get i a group or run your [Removed for Content] off. </p><p>Thats about it. </p>

[Dracot]

<cite>KannaWhoopass wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>There is a way for a solo player to stand a chance</p><p>When solo run at the first sign of danger . know you are outnumbered and will die so run. </p><p>If you want to fight .. ok fight and die vs a group perhaps you like that . </p><p>If you want to PvP on a PvP server full of people who group up to max their survival chance .. </p><p>Well that leaves you with the option .. of get i a group or run your [I cannot control my vocabulary] off. </p><p>Thats about it. </p></blockquote>So what your'e saying here is every class can run(which we all know is not true), and every class has the option to group 24-7.  Seriously, what game are you playing?  The game im playing basically states groups will choose a ranger or any other various scout class that can either kill in 2 seconds flat, or stunlock long enough for a otehrwised unskilled player to bloat his/her ego even more.  Eq2 was setup as a pve game, it will require a total overhaul of the game to make it slightly balanced.  As it stands now you have 2 choices for pvp.  #1 Roll a scout and BS yourself to beleiving your at all skilled, or #2 get a group or stand in town crafting.  Sorry, but I planned on playing the game, hell I pay monthly for it, yet sony decided to allow certain players advantages over others, forcing us to play certain classes.  I won't bend over and roll a druid or scout, I enjoy a challenge, now only if Sony could provide a challenge instead of a game of Suicide is a different matter.

[Hinosh]

You're right. This isn't PvP at all. It's a thread on a forum talking about how the PvP in the game isn't for you.

[Roald]

<p>I solo PvP the vast majority of the time and I manage to keep a decent KvD ratio and Title.</p><p>Also, I've found that the higher you level, the more 1v1's or small grp fights you find.</p>

[Xova]

<cite>zaltar wrote:</cite><blockquote>EQ 2 is IMHO the best mmorpg out there but the current state of pvp is way way to imbalanced . I play mmorpg`s for pvp and I came here looking for something better than what Iv`e seen in other games but what I found was a system that makes it impossible to play unless you are grouped ALL the time.</blockquote>You just answered your own complaint. EQ2 is a GROUP game with solo content, not a solo game with group content. Classes are designed to be complimentary to each other.Solo players stand a chance - certain classes have distinct advantages over others - but on the whole this is a group game and the ones you are complaining about have embraced that concept where you did not.If you want to solo pvp then you can, but understand that you are going to have many, many more experiences of being ganked at the hands of groups unless you learn to run, avoid, or roll a scout and use track. If you want to have a more viable experience, then it's strongly encouraged that you get a group as it will balance out your gameplay so much more. Even a duo or a trio stand a better chance in pvp than a lone player by themselves.PvP here is not perfect, but it is not the mess you are trying to make of it. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[zaltar]

The usual suspects trying to defend their easy kill game .If SOE took away your lame advantage of murdering anyone who happens to run by your little gank groups , you would no doubt be here crying about how you don`t like the game anymore.You don`t wan`t to play a game of skill , you wan`t to play a game that hands you everything on a plate.The response of " this is a group game " is predictable since this is always the given comment by those who enjoy ganging others , god forbid they lose that pleasure in life.The game was designed for solo or group play and is primarily labeled as a group game by those who wish to justify their group killing sprees.Your twisted logic = This is a group game therefore anyone caught solo deserves to be murdered by a group and it`s their own fault for not playing the game the way it was meant to be played. Keep telling yourself this crap to reinforce your desire to harass others.The bottom line is that the game does not provide any abilities for someone caught alone , nothing.This isn`t about trying to endorse solo play it`s about making it a little less hazardous on the person who isn`t grouped for whatever reason.FYI , I group , I duo with others and I get killed within 5 minutes of logging in if I`m caught alone outside of a city just trying to get to another map or port.Don`t worry , if any of you even has the ability to level up past 60 there`s plenty of guilds full of exiled players that will seal your fate fast , then you can kiss your easy ride goodbye.But then again you would have to really compete with others rather than gank solo players and we know that`s not the game you wan`t to play.To much skill involved for you.

[Barr]

<cite>Dracot72 wrote</cite><cite></cite><blockquote><blockquote><p>#1 Roll a scout and BS yourself to beleiving your at all skilled, or #2 get a group or stand in town crafting. </p></blockquote></blockquote>Ok, I know Im new but..Isn't that 3 options? Im sure grouping and standing in town crafting are 2 seperate options.Unless you get together for a Tupperware party or craft necklaces with beads and other plastic jewelry in a group.

[Taharn]

Actually, this IS PvP. This is PvP more than most MMOs out at the moment. World PvP is something that all the players of all the games with instanced scenarios crave. They constantly want more of it.Sure, EQ2 pvp has its mechanics issues and various balance problems, but to say its not PvP is just ridiculous

[Norrsken]

<cite>zaltar wrote:</cite><blockquote>The usual suspects trying to defend their easy kill game .If SOE took away your lame advantage of murdering anyone who happens to run by your little gank groups , you would no doubt be here crying about how you don`t like the game anymore.You don`t wan`t to play a game of skill , you wan`t to play a game that hands you everything on a plate.The response of " this is a group game " is predictable since this is always the given comment by those who enjoy ganging others , god forbid they lose that pleasure in life.The game was designed for solo or group play and is primarily labeled as a group game by those who wish to justify their group killing sprees.Your twisted logic = This is a group game therefore anyone caught solo deserves to be murdered by a group and it`s their own fault for not playing the game the way it was meant to be played. Keep telling yourself this crap to reinforce your desire to harass others.<b>The bottom line is that the game does not provide any abilities for someone caught alone , nothing.</b>This isn`t about trying to endorse solo play it`s about making it a little less hazardous on the person who isn`t grouped for whatever reason.FYI , I group , I duo with others and I get killed within 5 minutes of logging in if I`m caught alone outside of a city just trying to get to another map or port.Don`t worry , if any of you even has the ability to level up past 60 there`s plenty of guilds full of exiled players that will seal your fate fast , then you can kiss your easy ride goodbye.But then again you would have to really compete with others rather than gank solo players and we know that`s not the game you wan`t to play.To much skill involved for you.</blockquote>You know what...I play a wide variety of classes, and of those, only 1 scout. My inqisitor, a class completely void of any buffs for runspeed, see stealth or invis and oh yeah, track, is quite capable of making it away from full orangecon groups. I solo primarily on that toon. I keep a fair enough track record, especially considering I jump orangecons just to see how well I'll do. Last time, it was an exiled sk. He kicked my [Removed for Content] really bad. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Point is, the inquisitor is one of the worst classes to play if you want to be able to get away from groups, and still, I pull it off on mine. Solo.The ability to get away isnt something we need spells for. Decide where you want to go when you spot them, and start running, or they will kill you. And oh yeah, that group that is chasing you, they are players, and you are a player. Players vs Player. PvP.

[Lilflier]

There used to be plenty of ways to run in this game, but Sony has been steadily removing them, because people thought that it was too hard to kill people and Sony listened.   So now heals put priests in combat, potions and cures put people in combat, combat run speeds drop during pvp combat, AA points spent to enhance sprint drop during pvp combat, zoning and evacing have been removed during pvp combat.  Everything is being done to remove players ways out of fights, but nothing has been done to inhibit a players entry into a fight   You can't zone out of a fight, but you can zone into one.   You can't cure a snare without entering combat, but you can't really run away effectively without curing it.   You can't heal yourself in an attack, but you can't really survive one without healing yourself.   Every change they have made has put another limit on solo play.

[Bozidar]

<p>Everybody gets an ability that they can use at lvl 1.  It will balance your gaming experience, pve and especially pvp.. dramatically</p><p>give it a shot</p><p>/invite</p>

[zaltar]

<cite>Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>zaltar wrote:</cite><blockquote>The usual suspects trying to defend their easy kill game .If SOE took away your lame advantage of murdering anyone who happens to run by your little gank groups , you would no doubt be here crying about how you don`t like the game anymore.You don`t wan`t to play a game of skill , you wan`t to play a game that hands you everything on a plate.The response of " this is a group game " is predictable since this is always the given comment by those who enjoy ganging others , god forbid they lose that pleasure in life.The game was designed for solo or group play and is primarily labeled as a group game by those who wish to justify their group killing sprees.Your twisted logic = This is a group game therefore anyone caught solo deserves to be murdered by a group and it`s their own fault for not playing the game the way it was meant to be played. Keep telling yourself this crap to reinforce your desire to harass others.<b>The bottom line is that the game does not provide any abilities for someone caught alone , nothing.</b>This isn`t about trying to endorse solo play it`s about making it a little less hazardous on the person who isn`t grouped for whatever reason.FYI , I group , I duo with others and I get killed within 5 minutes of logging in if I`m caught alone outside of a city just trying to get to another map or port.Don`t worry , if any of you even has the ability to level up past 60 there`s plenty of guilds full of exiled players that will seal your fate fast , then you can kiss your easy ride goodbye.But then again you would have to really compete with others rather than gank solo players and we know that`s not the game you wan`t to play.To much skill involved for you.</blockquote>You know what...I play a wide variety of classes, and of those, only 1 scout. My inqisitor, a class completely void of any buffs for runspeed, see stealth or invis and oh yeah, track, is quite capable of making it away from full orangecon groups. I solo primarily on that toon. I keep a fair enough track record, especially considering I jump orangecons just to see how well I'll do. Last time, it was an exiled sk. He kicked my [I cannot control my vocabulary] really bad. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" />Point is, the inquisitor is one of the worst classes to play if you want to be able to get away from groups, and still, I pull it off on mine. Solo.The ability to get away isnt something we need spells for. Decide where you want to go when you spot them, and start running, or they will kill you. And oh yeah, that group that is chasing you, they are players, and you are a player. Players vs Player. PvP. With all of the reactive heals that you get playing Inquis , you don`t have to worry as much about running away compared to other classes. The sprint on one of my chars is so bad that it drains every bit of power I have and leaves me with nothing and the heal is good for 1 shot of maybe one sixth of my hp with an awful cool down at adept lvl . the master heal is not much better and certainly not worth the ridicules price . In fact the classes with reactive heals are becoming the most difficult to handle at this point , maybe I`ll look into rolling one myself. I`m not surprised an SK gave you trouble , one of the toughest classes to handle in pvp. </blockquote>

[Tamar]

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Everybody gets an ability that they can use at lvl 1.  It will balance your gaming experience, pve and especially pvp.. dramatically</p><p>give it a shot</p><p>/invite</p></blockquote>QFEYou say that the Devs need to be given an ability to combat groups and there it is.In all seriousness, have you even thought about the ramifications of the suggestions you make?  A solo being an illegal target for a group?  Think about it...If you like soloing, thats fine.  They are PLENTY of people who do it.  I see as many folks solo as grouped.  The game is not just groups running around ganking solos.  When a group comes upon a solo does the solo stand a chance?  Usually not.  But should they?  Should a solo really stand a chance against a group?  Or are you lobbying for more ways to run?There are already more than enough ways to stand a chance at getting away from groups.  If anything there are too many ways.  OOC mechanics favor running.  That can't be denied.  100000% OOC run speeds, evac items, immunity to roots, track, zoning immunity, perma immunity spots...Posts like your pop up quite a bit, suggesting changes to the game to suit the solo playstyle.  They are usually made by someone who wants to solo as a class that isn't really suited for such a thing.

[Stuckx]

This isn't everquest...this is......RANGERQUEST!!?!?!?!@

[Spyderbite]

<cite>zaltar wrote:</cite><blockquote>The people who defend the pvp in this game are the same weaklings who run around in gangs murdering people who aren`t.</blockquote>Yikes!I'd agree with you on that blanket statement, but then we'd <b>both </b>be wrong. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />You need to go play a game that offers FFA PvP. At least factions and zones discourage a few of the wannabes from running around in zergs killing anything that moves.

[Snowlywhite]

"this game is balanced around group pvp"that's usually the type of bs you'd expect from lazy developers wanting to justify poor balance.You could argue that many players have the same point. Usually it's exactly the ones that run in groups because they're unable to otherwise.However, I don't see how you can argue that "it is balanced around group pvp" when the probability to have group vs group pvp in this game is 10 times smaller then having 1vs1 pvp. Fact is, this is a game without any shape of form of bgs. If it would've been like gw(only bg pvp) or even like wow(where 90% of the pvp was instanced too) then I'd understand. But in it's current form, where the chance you bump into another side pvp group is already slim enough, leaving aside that the lvl difference between the 2 groups can be major... yes, the statement it's bs.Reality is there's little group pvp bar t7(and anyway, t7 pvp ain't the majority of pvp by any means) and the statement is again, defended by, devs.(which at least can be fully understood - it's always easier to launch such a comment instead of actually workin' your behind and fix things) and by let's say, players with "debatable" skill.

[Disciple780]

you think this is bad? Try going to DAOC and RvR........thats having to group 24/7.

[Krokous]

<cite>Milambers@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I solo PvP the vast majority of the time and I manage to keep a decent KvD ratio and Title.</p><p>Also, <span style="color: #ff33ff;">I've found that the higher you level, the more 1v1's or small grp fights you find.</span></p></blockquote>you clearly havent seen T7 yet.

[toenukl]

Groups should be able to gank solo's and smaller groups, because it is a PvP server. That being said, I do NOT believe that groups should take infamy from solos. Tokens, chests, faction, coin... yes. But it shouldn't strip your title away. Most classes do not have evac and tracking and can't "see them coming". I know the age old excuse "Then group with a scout". You know how hard it is to get a scout to come group w/ you so you can harvest? Titles were meant to show your skill, so that the noobs can say "Wow he's a general, he must be good at PvP". Now all it says is "Wow, he can evac when a group starts ganking him". Someone with a Slayer title may be extremely skilled but gets rolled by groups all the time. I've seen many people with high titles that only attack when they have the extreme upper hand, and when they dont they evac. Basically, they have no skill in PvP, but have the higher title.A fix for all of this, remove titles completely.<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Norrsken]

<cite>zaltar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>zaltar wrote:</cite><blockquote>The usual suspects trying to defend their easy kill game .If SOE took away your lame advantage of murdering anyone who happens to run by your little gank groups , you would no doubt be here crying about how you don`t like the game anymore.You don`t wan`t to play a game of skill , you wan`t to play a game that hands you everything on a plate.The response of " this is a group game " is predictable since this is always the given comment by those who enjoy ganging others , god forbid they lose that pleasure in life.The game was designed for solo or group play and is primarily labeled as a group game by those who wish to justify their group killing sprees.Your twisted logic = This is a group game therefore anyone caught solo deserves to be murdered by a group and it`s their own fault for not playing the game the way it was meant to be played. Keep telling yourself this crap to reinforce your desire to harass others.<b>The bottom line is that the game does not provide any abilities for someone caught alone , nothing.</b>This isn`t about trying to endorse solo play it`s about making it a little less hazardous on the person who isn`t grouped for whatever reason.FYI , I group , I duo with others and I get killed within 5 minutes of logging in if I`m caught alone outside of a city just trying to get to another map or port.Don`t worry , if any of you even has the ability to level up past 60 there`s plenty of guilds full of exiled players that will seal your fate fast , then you can kiss your easy ride goodbye.But then again you would have to really compete with others rather than gank solo players and we know that`s not the game you wan`t to play.To much skill involved for you.</blockquote>You know what...I play a wide variety of classes, and of those, only 1 scout. My inqisitor, a class completely void of any buffs for runspeed, see stealth or invis and oh yeah, track, is quite capable of making it away from full orangecon groups. I solo primarily on that toon. I keep a fair enough track record, especially considering I jump orangecons just to see how well I'll do. Last time, it was an exiled sk. He kicked my [I cannot control my vocabulary] really bad. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" />Point is, the inquisitor is one of the worst classes to play if you want to be able to get away from groups, and still, I pull it off on mine. Solo.The ability to get away isnt something we need spells for. Decide where you want to go when you spot them, and start running, or they will kill you. And oh yeah, that group that is chasing you, they are players, and you are a player. Players vs Player. PvP. With all of the reactive heals that you get playing Inquis , you don`t have to worry as much about running away compared to other classes. The sprint on one of my chars is so bad that it drains every bit of power I have and leaves me with nothing and the heal is good for 1 shot of maybe one sixth of my hp with an awful cool down at adept lvl . the master heal is not much better and certainly not worth the ridicules price . In fact the classes with reactive heals are becoming the most difficult to handle at this point , maybe I`ll look into rolling one myself. I`m not surprised an SK gave you trouble , one of the toughest classes to handle in pvp. </blockquote></blockquote>If I stop to heal when a group is gunning for me, Im dead. Plus, it puts me in combat, and that way, I wont have use of my mount. So, before you go hailing reactives as the godsend for surviving groups, try playing a cleric, and try getting a single heal off with a group hitting you. I [Removed for Content] you not when I say you wont live long enough for one heal to finish. Clerics have the worst avoidance in the game. They are constantly interrupted when someone is attacking them. Hell, in a 1 on 1, I can normally not get my group reactive off.

[Spyderbite]

<cite>zaltar wrote:</cite><blockquote>FYI , I group , I duo with others and I get killed within 5 minutes of logging in if I`m caught alone outside of a city just trying to get to another map or port.</blockquote>What server do you play on? And what tier?I solo 50% of the time I play. I know exactly where I'm going to find a fight and where I'm going to be left in peace most of the time.Logging in outside the West Freep gates or Qeynos main gate is not an argument. Its a guilty plea.

[Xova]

<cite>zaltar wrote:</cite><blockquote>The usual suspects trying to defend their easy kill game .If SOE took away your lame advantage of murdering anyone who happens to run by your little gank groups , you would no doubt be here crying about how you don`t like the game anymore.You don`t wan`t to play a game of skill , you wan`t to play a game that hands you everything on a plate.The response of " this is a group game " is predictable since this is always the given comment by those who enjoy ganging others , god forbid they lose that pleasure in life.The game was designed for solo or group play and is primarily labeled as a group game by those who wish to justify their group killing sprees.Your twisted logic = This is a group game therefore anyone caught solo deserves to be murdered by a group and it`s their own fault for not playing the game the way it was meant to be played. Keep telling yourself this crap to reinforce your desire to harass others.The bottom line is that the game does not provide any abilities for someone caught alone , nothing.This isn`t about trying to endorse solo play it`s about making it a little less hazardous on the person who isn`t grouped for whatever reason.FYI , I group , I duo with others and I get killed within 5 minutes of logging in if I`m caught alone outside of a city just trying to get to another map or port.Don`t worry , if any of you even has the ability to level up past 60 there`s plenty of guilds full of exiled players that will seal your fate fast , then you can kiss your easy ride goodbye.But then again you would have to really compete with others rather than gank solo players and we know that`s not the game you wan`t to play.To much skill involved for you.</blockquote>The majority of the toons I play are lvl70 toons. And Exiled players die just as easily as Factioned ones. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I don't play "easymode". My first toon was a Defiler that I got General rank on and retired in favor of a Fury that I got General on and retired, and now I play a raid-specced Dirge as a main who's currently a Destroyer. Last night myself, a Fury, and Berserker fended off about a dozen players ranging from a couple of lowbie greys to a group of T7 players as they zerged us across Greater Faydark. Had any of us encountered those players solo we would have been dead. But because we were grouped, and because we group regularly, we handed them their butts - several times.It is not "twisted logic" that this is a group game: it is a fact. I'm sorry you are unable to appreciate that. If you want the game to be less hazardous for you as a solo player, then GET A GROUP. A regular one. Don't leave home without them. And if you do, expect to have a tougher time because the enemy has a group where you don't. Even at lvl70, I know that if I run around solo, I have less survivability than I would as part of a group. So if I want to risk my toon's life, I go solo. If I want to stand a chance, I get a group.The people telling you to group up and stop running around solo are not the people that mindlessly gank newbies just for kicks. Many of us recognize that the PvP game is very tough on new players and have made numerous efforts to educate new players on how to survive the lower tiers. We can't change the game mechanics, and since we have no control over the behavior of others, all we can do is try to impart some of the knowledge we've gained after playing the PvP game here for nearly 2 years, and tell you that your chances of survival are exponentially better if you group up, particularly if you group up regularly, even if it's just with 1-2 other people.Like Bozidar said, /invite = does wonders for your PvP experience.

[liveja]

<cite>zaltar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>How is it rational to have 5 people with full power , gear , maxed skills , shared buffs and heals , surround one or two players and murder them ?</p><p><span style="color: #00cc00;"><b>Um ... how is it *not* rational?</b></span></p><p>If the game was balanced it would not put people who aren`t  in groups at such a huge disadvantage</p><p><span style="color: #00cc00;"><b>So, lemmee get this straight: even though, realistically, a lone person WOULD be at a significant disadvantage when fighting a group of enemies, you want to HARD CODE it so that the fight will be "fair"? Is that really what I'm understanding you to say? Please correct me if I've mis-understood this position, which is .... um .... unique, in all my MMO experience.</b></span></p><p>What skills does the game give in order to compensate for this type of situation ?</p><span style="color: #00cc00;"><b>The game gives you this cool little tool called /invite. It helps you fix your own balance problems all by yourself, without cheezy demands that the Developers hold your hand.</b></span></blockquote>

[zaltar]

Again , the point is not to endorse solo or group play and debate over which is better , the point is that ANYONE will at one time or another face a situation when their caught alone . It`s these types of situations that most players are constantly trying to exploit because they know that the game makes it 100 % easy to give the upper hand to groups when they  chance upon one person.I have watched 2 sizable groups come across each other that had the option to do battle but instead of fighting each other one of the groups opted to all go over and kill a solo player instead while the other group did nothing because neither group wanted to risk any real encounter.Why should they when they can have solo players handed to them on a plate without any effort ?Anyone ever do an instanced part of a quest where mobs appear near an NPC that you have to kill on the spot and have a group of grey`s that you are not allowed to attack start taking pot shots at you while your trying to kill the mobs purposely causing you to lose the quest ? How many times you been in a spawn and had a group camped outside waiting to gank anyone who tries to leave ? Are they waiting there to engage in battle with another group ? No , their waiting for people to leave the spawn one at a time so they can get rewards for easy kills.This system ENCOURAGES players to gang people because it rewards them for it which in turn creates an environment that does not promote group encounters , almost every time I see 2 groups from opposite sides one of them runs to the zone port because they don`t wan`t risk losing status or title.Honestly do you really think that anyone who forms a party is going to track another group to engage? No chance , their going to search for an easy kill and as long as the system makes it easy nothing will change.I would rather see some real competition between groups of players with skill involved rather than this constant petty ganking of one player at a time .

[liveja]

<cite>zaltar wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have watched 2 sizable groups come across each other that had the option to do battle but instead of fighting each other one of the groups opted to all go over and kill a solo player instead while the other group did nothing because neither group wanted to risk any real encounter.</blockquote><p>If they're not interested in a "real" encounter, they won't fight each other no matter what hard coding you put in.</p><p>So, if you're solo, & you see a group, will you be unable to attack any of them, because they're grouped & you're not? If you can attack, can the other members fight back to defend their buddy, or are they forced to watch because they're grouped & you're not? If a full group finds a solo player they can't attack because of hard-coding, are they then forced to decide who gets to fight, disband, stand around watching, & then re-group?</p><p>The suggestions made in this thread are, IMO, on beyond silly, especially when they're more readily solved simply by forming your own group. IMO, this thread is the PvP equivalent of all the PvE whiners complaining that EQ2 isn't "solo friendly", & that even raid zones like Labs, etc., should "scale" for solo, group, & raid play.</p><p>It's a LOT easier, & a LOT more effective, to adapt yourself to the game, rather than demand that the game designers adapt their game to you.</p>

[Norrsken]

<cite>zaltar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Again , the point is not to endorse solo or group play and debate over which is better , the point is that ANYONE will at one time or another face a situation when their caught alone . It`s these types of situations that most players are constantly trying to exploit because they know that the game makes it 100 % easy to give the upper hand to groups when they  chance upon one person.I have watched 2 sizable groups come across each other that had the option to do battle but instead of fighting each other one of the groups opted to all go over and kill a solo player instead while the other group did nothing because neither group wanted to risk any real encounter.Why should they when they can have solo players handed to them on a plate without any effort ?Anyone ever do an instanced part of a quest where mobs appear near an NPC that you have to kill on the spot and have a group of grey`s that you are not allowed to attack start taking pot shots at you while your trying to kill the mobs purposely causing you to lose the quest ? How many times you been in a spawn and had a group camped outside waiting to gank anyone who tries to leave ? Are they waiting there to engage in battle with another group ? No , their waiting for people to leave the spawn one at a time so they can get rewards for easy kills.This system ENCOURAGES players to gang people because it rewards them for it which in turn creates an environment that does not promote group encounters , almost every time I see 2 groups from opposite sides one of them runs to the zone port because they don`t wan`t risk losing status or title.<b>Honestly do you really think that anyone who forms a party is going to track another group to engage? No chance , their going to search for an easy kill and as long as the system makes it easy nothing will change.</b>I would rather see some real competition between groups of players with skill involved rather than this constant petty ganking of one player at a time .</blockquote>Thats what my guilds groups do whenever we get one together. solos are just the snack between full meals, hell, we used to fight raids with just one group. but yeah, the infamy system rewards going after easier targets. It has skewed the way pvp is on the server atm, and to fix it, they not only need to change it so you dont get rewarded for picking easy fights but you need to be rewarded for trying on something harder than you.

[evhallion]

<p>Remember this little dialogue from <i>Days of Thunder:</i></p><p>Cole, you're all over the track. - He just slammed into me.He didn't slam you or bump you. He rubbed you. Rubbing is racing.</p><p>Now imagine they were talking about PVP instead of NASCAR racing and it would go like this:</p><p>- Cole, you're all over the map. - A Group just jumped onto me.They didn't jump you. They ganked you. Ganking is PVP.</p><p>This holds true in any game that has PVP. Show me a player in any PVP game that hasn't been ganked and I will show you someone lying about playing PVP. From what I have always seen in most PVP games is only a small % of PVP players enjoy an equal fight, the majority enjoy an imbalance of some sort as long as they are on the winning side of the imbalance.</p><p>The issues with pvp here in EQ2 I feel is due to being constantly flagged for PVP. To fix all the issues with twinks/level-lockers, etc is simply make it to where the pvp enabled flag can be toggled on or off depending on how you want to play at the time. SOE used this system in SWG and it had a very healthy PVP enviroment. I'd wager it'd work the same here. Though I'm sure there would be some outcry from that "majority" I spoke of earlier who would now have to grind up to lvl cap and be on the same footing as everyone else for a bit. Til they "fix" this current system though I'm sticking to the PVE servers.</p>

[Xova]

<cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>It's a LOT easier, & a LOT more effective, to adapt yourself to the game, rather than demand that the game designers adapt their game to you.</p></blockquote>Best advice in this thread. Five stars for you!<cite>zaltar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Again , the point is not to endorse solo or group play and debate over which is better , the point is that ANYONE will at one time or another face a situation when their caught alone . It`s these types of situations that most players are constantly trying to exploit because they know that the game makes it 100 % easy to give the upper hand to groups when they  chance upon one person.<span style="color: #9900ff;">So you get caught alone - big deal. It happens. Shrug it off and move on. Try being lvl70 and getting ganked to high heaven by a x2 of grays that are camping the spires to keep you from joining your group. Yes it sucked when it happened to me, but I shrugged it off, used an alternate route to get where I needed to go, and moved on.</span>I have watched 2 sizable groups come across each other that had the option to do battle but instead of fighting each other one of the groups opted to all go over and kill a solo player instead while the other group did nothing because neither group wanted to risk any real encounter. Why should they when they can have solo players handed to them on a plate without any effort ?<span style="color: #9900ff;">That is an issue of player behavior, not game mechanics. And honestly, that solo player, upon encountering two groups of hostiles, should have turned and ran. To hang around was simply folly on their part.</span>Anyone ever do an instanced part of a quest where mobs appear near an NPC that you have to kill on the spot and have a group of grey`s that you are not allowed to attack start taking pot shots at you while your trying to kill the mobs purposely causing you to lose the quest ? How many times you been in a spawn and had a group camped outside waiting to gank anyone who tries to leave ? Are they waiting there to engage in battle with another group ? No , their waiting for people to leave the spawn one at a time so they can get rewards for easy kills.<span style="color: #9900ff;">Last night I got on my Dirge and headed - solo - to Loping Plains to get a quest update in Somborn Village. Arrived at the village, saw a full group of Exiles, evacced to safety, and then sat there while the group of Exiles and a full group of Q's camped the evac point, keeping me from my quest. What did I do?<ul><li>/gu Anyone near Loping Plains? I need to get my quest update for SoD and I've got two groups - q's and Exiles - camping me at the evac point.</li><li>Zhaoyun has invited you to join a group in Steamfont</li><li>(Guildchat) Zhaoyun says, "On the way, just sit tight a sec"</li><li>/gu Thanks guys - REALLY appreciate it! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></li></ul>Group zoned in. Exiles saw me go Heroic, evacced to immunity and called home. The Q's got fiesty though and engaged us and were promptly wiped. And I got  my quest update. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Groups, guilds, friends - easiest way to balance out your gameplay.</span></blockquote>Most of what you complain about is player behavior, and I'm sorry but that's not going to get fixed with the suggestions you've made. As was said above, it's easier for you to adapt to the game - like the rest of us have - then for the game to adapt to you.

[Varvar]

<p>Is is just me, or does there seem to be an influx of new folks that just don't understand what pvp is?</p><p>I think everyone (both new and veteran) could benifit from re-visiting a classic post.</p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=367158" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Read this</a></p>

[Spyderbite]

<cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>It's a LOT easier, & a LOT more effective, to adapt yourself to the game, rather than demand that the game designers adapt their game to you.</p></blockquote>QFT.. and by far the most intelligent quote I've heard in years.

[Muraazi]

I understand your frustration although I can't exactly say I agree with it. MMO's are a grouping game, that is for sure. PvP in an MMO shouldn't really be different. However, I could agree with a system that would discourage gangbanging a lone character with a group. Dishonorable kills, would probably go along way in this game. Say a group of 6 engage a lone character and kill him, they lose fame, if and only if the group engaged first. If the solo attacked the group, then no fame loss but a gain. It would have to be ironed out alot. (I am sure this isn't the first time this idea has been brought up). Ofcourse people will probably say this discourages PvP, and in a way it does. There are already alot of limitations on eq2 PvP. Imo though, it really just discourages ganking solo's.

[WeatherMan]

People should <i>not</i> create a toon on a PvP server if they have no idea what it is they're getting themselves into ahead of time - and that's the problem.  Preconception.When I first started PvP, I had no illusions.  I knew the Other Side (this was pre-Exile days) was not interested in a good gaming experience, fair fights, or whether I was having a good time.  That's not their job.They were there for blood.  They were there to corpse-hump.  They were there to ruin my day.  They were there to protect their titles.  They were there to gank.  They were there to pixel-[Removed for Content] newbies.  And it would have been the height of naiveté to expect any of them to give a rodent's rectum about anything except self-improvement at other's expense.  PvP lets us unshackle ourselves from the bond of manners, respect, morality, and civilization, and join the cheering throngs in the Coliseum as the lions shred the Christians into soup scraps.  And it lets us smear ourselves in the blood afterwards and hold our title up for all to see.And I knew that.  I expected that.  And none of it rattled me when it happened.  Solo or grouped, I always knew the odds.  Because that is the <i>essence</i> of PvP.  Here, you are free, if only for a time, from the disease of Political Correctness.I don't PvP any more.  The concept of immunity timers - specifically <i>my</i> immunity timer - preventing me from attacking was simply too much for my blood pressure to handle.  A dumb reason to stop PvP'ing?  Perhaps.  But I resented...massively resented...someone jumping me, finding out I was a bit more than he could handle, running to the bell, and disappearing - and when I followed him, my own immunity timer worked in his favor, allowing him to evade an oaken Baton Flurry upside his skull.Now mind you, I don't blame the other player....he was simply using a feature in the game that allowed it.  And that, too, is a feature of PvP.  Anything that is not against the EULA is fair play in PvP.  And if you can't accept that, do as I did - and stop.

[Shadowinajar]

<p>any more bondages for PVP is a bad thing, the more the pvp is a FFA</p><p>the better it will regulate itself..</p><p>Group > solo sure! its obvious ..not?</p><p>only the titlesystem is not worth a dime <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>must say i considered the pvpsystem at the start best..still evac after engaging was a bit to much</p>

[Amphibia]

<cite>WeatherMan wrote:</cite><blockquote>People should <i>not</i> create a toon on a PvP server if they have no idea what it is they're getting themselves into ahead of time - and that's the problem.  Preconception.When I first started PvP, I had no illusions.  I knew the Other Side (this was pre-Exile days) was not interested in a good gaming experience, fair fights, or whether I was having a good time.  That's not their job.They were there for blood.  They were there to corpse-hump.  They were there to ruin my day.  They were there to protect their titles.  They were there to gank.  They were there to pixel-[I cannot control my vocabulary] newbies.  And it would have been the height of naiveté to expect any of them to give a rodent's rectum about anything except self-improvement at other's expense.  PvP lets us unshackle ourselves from the bond of manners, respect, morality, and civilization, and join the cheering throngs in the Coliseum as the lions shred the Christians into soup scraps.  And it lets us smear ourselves in the blood afterwards and hold our title up for all to see.And I knew that.  I expected that.  And none of it rattled me when it happened.  Solo or grouped, I always knew the odds.  Because that is the <i>essence</i> of PvP.  Here, you are free, if only for a time, from the disease of Political Correctness.I don't PvP any more. <span style="color: #ff0033;"><b> The concept of immunity timers - specifically <i>my</i> immunity timer - preventing me from attacking was simply too much for my blood pressure to handle. </b></span> A dumb reason to stop PvP'ing?  Perhaps.  But I resented...massively resented...someone jumping me, finding out I was a bit more than he could handle, running to the bell, and disappearing - and when I followed him, my own immunity timer worked in his favor, allowing him to evade an oaken Baton Flurry upside his skull.Now mind you, I don't blame the other player....he was simply using a feature in the game that allowed it.  And that, too, is a feature of PvP.  Anything that is not against the EULA is fair play in PvP.  And if you can't accept that, do as I did - and stop.</blockquote>Omg, how I hate that thing. I bet it was put there to prevent zerging, but it sucks so bad I don't even know where to begin. It sucks espesially because the enemy will then very often have 30 seconds to react as they see me and zone, evac or whatever. Bad idea, imo. Zerging upsets me actually far less than all the stuff they put in to prevent it. If they just removed the [Removed for Content] title system, I bet that would cut down on it more than any of these annoying game mechanics.

[Azol]

<cite>zaltar wrote:</cite><blockquote>When a group comes up on any less than 2 people at a time meaning a solo player and tries to attack, they should get this message " Illegal Target " until SOE figures out a way to give solo players a fighting chance.</blockquote><p>I do not know if I should cry or laugh over this. <b>Of course groups and raids SHOULD be able to kill solo players</b> - why not??? 1vs1, 1vs6, 1vs24 - you are on PVP server, after all. Big deal.</p><p>P.S. And they try to tell us they want a free-for-all full-loot PVP server? {I cannot find appropriate words in my vocabulary}!!!</p>

[Statewrestler101]

OK Tis is a ROLE PLAYING GAME is it not??? Ok you would think in the real EQ2 world.. that if 6 EVIL people came across a Good guy that they would just say o look he is solo lets feel sorry for him and let him go... No they would slit his [Removed for Content] throat... Cmon guys you are almost asking to take Role-Playing out of the game

[Raznor2]

<p>Let's suppose for a moment that there was a function to make group vs solo pvp equal as you suggest.  So when a group engages a solo player that groups ca's, heals, melee and spells dropped to 1/6 their normal pvp capacity for each group member thus making it a even fight for that solitary player.  Now if that were the case why would anyone group?  You could fair just as well alone plus gain more faction, infamy and fame instead of splitting it 6 ways.   Plus in order for a group to even be functional 6 players would have to be able to perform their tasks, in sync, as well as that solo player could perform all his abilities on his own.  And what about a 2x raid or 4x should 24 people be forced to have their abilities diminished so that the lone player is never at an disadvantage?  </p><p>What your arguing for is something that doesn't go along with how pvp works.  First and foremost pvp is not about equality.  If you do end up solo you have to accept that in most cases your going to be at an disadvantage, there is going to be strength in numbers and in most cases when a group rolls up on you if your not prepared to get away your going to die.  There are tons of ways for solo players to escape from greater forces, stealth/invis totems, track, evac (and there are god powers that allow non evac classes to do it) zone lines, out of combat run speed, clouds etc.  You also have to plan wisely if you know your going to be alone you need to choose places that are off the beaten path.  Great example of this point, I was leveling a warlock and I knew I would be leveling this character alone most of the time and that I didn't want to worry about pvp until I got a good ways into t2.  So I picked an out of the way zone (not an instance) and in 18 levels I was killed once.  All of this is part of the fun.  It's not just about just fighting, it's about surviving, the ability to pick the fights you can win and avoid the fights you can't is what pvp is really about.  If your unwilling to accept that when your alone your at the bottom of the pecking order and that survival is the key not just how good you are in a fight then pvp isn't for you.  If you want fair fights then what you want are duels.  That doesn't mean your less a player, it's just a different preferance, some people like the risks and challenges of playing pvp, some don't.</p>

[liveja]

<cite>Sarafan@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>The issues with pvp here in EQ2 I feel is due to being constantly flagged for PVP. To fix all the issues with twinks/level-lockers, etc is simply make it to where the pvp enabled flag can be toggled on or off depending on how you want to play at the time.</p></blockquote><p>That is pretty much how WoW "normal" servers work: you *can* engage in PvP, but only if you turn your PvP flag on -- which, of course, can be done involuntarily.</p><p>There are silly issues with that model -- like, for example, the lone level 70 hanging out taunting people & generally finding ways to disrupt their gameplay without flagging, i.e., without turning your own PvP flag on. In no way at all does it eliminate "twinks".</p><p>There is also the fact that you can be forced into PvP flagging involuntarily. You can be certain that clever players will find ways to abuse that mechanic, & since you won't be "on your toes", the gankage will be that much worse for you.</p><p>No, I'm sorry: playing on a PvP server means, & should continue to mean, being perma-flagged for PvP. People who don't like that should avoid PvP servers.</p>

[liveja]

<cite>Muraazi wrote:</cite><blockquote>Dishonorable kills</blockquote><p>That was proposed in WoW a *long* time ago, & AFAIK, has still never been implemented, because the Devs of that game realized just what a can of worms it is.</p><p>IMHO, the concept is faulty. It's not "dishonorable" for any given Human to kill an Ork, regardless of what "level" that Ork is. The fact is, the Ork is the *enemy*, & in war, you kill the enemy. With that in mind, I fail to see why other players should be treated differently than mobs.</p><p>That's one of the things I loved about DAoC: enemy players weren't identified by name, but by their faction & their PvP standing. So, when I went PvPing, I didn't think of my opponents as other players with feelings that could be hurt, but rather as mobs to be slain, just like any other mobs.</p><p>There's no honor in war, any more than there is among thieves. There is only those who live, & those who are slain.</p>

[DravynX]

<p>Getting rolled by groups is a way of life in pvp and you just have to suck it up. However..that being said...I still think that group v one should NOT reward fame, infamy or anything else. It is this reason, and this reason alone, that entire groups hunt for solo's to kill and avoid all other groups at all costs.</p><p>Either fix that or get rid of the title system, because as it is now titles are the reason solo yellow dreadnaughts will run all the way across zek to avoid fighting me, and then come hunt me down later in their full group. Everyone of you titlewhores are the problem, and  you know who you are.</p>

[Roald]

<p>I think this game is very well balanced in group v group and 1v1s, At least at level 1-42, which is where my coercer currently is.</p><p>Sure, I find class like bards/guards way easier than, say, rangers, but those classes are more suited to groups.</p>

[Bloodfa]

<p>Why is it that some things that should be plainly obvious are overlooked?  Strengths and weaknesses are present in <u>every</u> class.  I've got several toons in several classes in several tiers.  My Guardian gets rolled up on, I pick a target and kill it.  Just one.  That'll make me happy, knowing I busted somebody's kill streak.  Learn the keyboard commands.  See that "Previous PvP Target" command?  Guess what it does.  It lets you go back to the one guy you're trying to kill, so you don't just drop without at least <i>trying</i> to bloody the other guys' noses.  My Wizard drops like a rock when somebody closes in on me.  He also can deal out more damage in one single spell than my Swashy can hope for in 2 CA's, maybe 3, and it's only going to get better.  My Monk?  I'll slap the hell outta an SK more often than not.  My Warden will run or fight, depending on the odds, I'll lay my money on my Warden. If I die, big freakin' deal.  It doesn't cause me any real pain.  I don't suddenly get my wallet cleaned out in real life.  I don't throw my mouse across the room like a petulant 8 year old.  Get over it, accept that if you're solo, you will die, or do something to adjust the situation.  Welcome to playing solo.  If you really do want to solo, accept the risks.  I do.  Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose.  Don't expect that your lone Paladin is going to charge in and wipe out a group.  Not gonna happen unless they're bots and 6-boxing.  And you get lucky.</p><p>Think about it in the 'real world'.  If you've ever had a fight against more than one person, you're at a disadvantage.  You've got options.  I stood my ground more often than not against 2 to one odds, knowing I'd get hurt.  Three to one, I usually sprinted for all I was worth, and guess what?  Usualyy I got my tired [Removed for Content] beat anyway.  Stand and pick one, hit him hard, hit him fast and make him bleed a little, the others may hesitate and give you an advantage, or they'll cream you.  But try to drop one of 'em. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Another piece of advice is to pick a plan and stick with it.  You try to sprint away, they're going to catch you with no power.  If you can't outrun them, attack them and make them <i>earn</i> that kill.</p>

[ThomasGrey]

<p>OP, I can relate and there are nights where I want to scream for anything close to a fair fight.  I solo 90% of the time, though I actively use the global channels to seek groups.  I love my SK, but honestly there are only a few classes I would advise playing solo.  You really need stealth/invise, some sort of speed, and if possible tracking to play solo and avoid the frustrations you describe.  If I had to start over knowing I'll solo 6 nights a week, I'd have went Druid or Scout.</p><p>There is good news though.  From levels 20-40 things get alot better for the solo player.  Levels 10 to 20 you aren't sharing zones with the other faction, rather you are in faction specific zones for exp and questing making it alot easier for groups of level locked twinks to find you.  Once you start using Nek, TS, BB, etc You'll encounter the other faction in a shared hunting environment, where they'll be solo or in small groups more often than in groups of six.</p><p>Also contributing to this is the large proportion of level 10 - 20 players that level lock and twink rather than dealing with the discomfort of having to requip themselves every week or two as they level beyond their gear. </p>

[Azol]

<cite>Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Why is it that some things that should be plainly obvious are overlooked?  Strengths and weaknesses are present in <u>every</u> class.  I've got several toons in several classes in several tiers.  My Guardian gets rolled up on, I pick a target and kill it.  Just one.  That'll make me happy, knowing I busted somebody's kill streak.  Learn the keyboard commands.  See that "Previous PvP Target" command?  Guess what it does.  It lets you go back to the one guy you're trying to kill, so you don't just drop without at least <i>trying</i> to bloody the other guys' noses.  My Wizard drops like a rock when somebody closes in on me.  He also can deal out more damage in one single spell than my Swashy can hope for in 2 CA's, maybe 3, and it's only going to get better.  My Monk?  I'll slap the hell outta an SK more often than not.  My Warden will run or fight, depending on the odds, I'll lay my money on my Warden. If I die, big freakin' deal.  It doesn't cause me any real pain.  I don't suddenly get my wallet cleaned out in real life.  I don't throw my mouse across the room like a petulant 8 year old.  Get over it, accept that if you're solo, you will die, or do something to adjust the situation.  Welcome to playing solo.  If you really do want to solo, accept the risks.  I do.  Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose.  Don't expect that your lone Paladin is going to charge in and wipe out a group.  Not gonna happen unless they're bots and 6-boxing.  And you get lucky.</p><p>Think about it in the 'real world'.  If you've ever had a fight against more than one person, you're at a disadvantage.  You've got options.  I stood my ground more often than not against 2 to one odds, knowing I'd get hurt.  Three to one, I usually sprinted for all I was worth, and guess what?  Usualyy I got my tired [I cannot control my vocabulary] beat anyway.  Stand and pick one, hit him hard, hit him fast and make him bleed a little, the others may hesitate and give you an advantage, or they'll cream you.  But try to drop one of 'em. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" /> Another piece of advice is to pick a plan and stick with it.  You try to sprint away, they're going to catch you with no power.  If you can't outrun them, attack them and make them <i>earn</i> that kill.</p></blockquote><p>I like this way of thinking very much. Too bad you are on Nagafen. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" /></p>

[graticus]

to put it bluntly: group vs 1 pvp is an accepted fact of gameplay on a pvp server. If you find yourself being constantly ganked by groups, move to a different location to xp. The last few days have been hell for me, getting wacked by group Q pk'ers one death after another. I just suck it up, adn keep chuggin' along until i catch one of them solo, then it's on.the people complaining wouldn't have had a chance on Sullon Zek on eq1. I have more respect for someone who made it level 40 on SZ, than I have for anyone who makes it to 70 on Naggy.SOE whould bring back the original pvp rulesets, then we'd see how many peep's start complaining, moving to blue servers, or quitting teh game altogether.