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UlteriorModem
10-12-2007, 11:34 AM
<p>I got into a group last night. I rarely do so but thought it would be nice for a change. Besides I had some heroics I needed to finish off.</p><p>The group was really quite good and I got lots of good exp and learned a few things (multi attacks can be a bad thing for rangers <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />). </p><p>Dont take me wrong Im not dissing anyone here just an observation.</p><p>The 'leader' was a frantic killing maniac, kill, kill, kill run kill kill kill run kill kill kill. All the while I was having some problems with my hot bars, I had dinged an AA, I had leveled, and some other minor issues I wanted to attend to but no cant wait kill, run kill, kill, no rest no pauses just a non stop killing frenzy.</p><p>I tried to explain I needed to fix a few things but all I could get out was "I need to" kill kill kill "fix" kill kill kill "my hot" kill kill kill "bars. I cant" kill kill kill "use a sk" kill kill kill "skill I need". Let alone spec my AA point.</p><p>It was a frantic hectic fighting frenzy.</p><p>Are all groups like this or does anyone play at a less frantic pace ?</p>

KBern
10-12-2007, 11:37 AM
<p>I love groups like that at times when I do actually group.  When I need to grab a beer, or fix a hot bar or whatever, just go psuedo afk and do what you gotta do.</p>

interstellarmatter
10-12-2007, 11:43 AM
<p>You have to remember that some people have been farming the same zones for a long time.  They have an objective and they don't want to stop and smell the flowers.  Anybody lagging behind is making this already boring run even more boring.</p><p>That's why you should make friends to group with at night.  It's hard to find a pickup group that just wants to enjoy a zone.</p>

SnoesieQ
10-12-2007, 11:45 AM
<p>I'm guessing the leader was also the tank?</p><p>From my experience as a healer, I sometimes get really annoyed by this behavior. BUT - you wouldn't believe how many people will just leave a group unless the tank is running through whatever dungeon or zone you are in as if their behind was on fire. I don't say that everyone is like this - but a large number of people have the opinion that a slow tank is a bad tank.</p><p>What you have to ask yourself is whether or not groupmembers get left behind because they don't zone fast enough or individual members who get add aggro while training are left to fend for themselves. If yes, then bad tank. If not... this kind of rushing is what most people expect from the tank, and so therefor is quite normal for pick up groups.... in my personal experience. I tend to avoid these kinds of stressy groups personally, and if I come across a tank with a pace (and general behaviour) I like, I add them to friendslist and send them a tell to ask what they're up to and if they need a groupmember. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> </p><p>If the leader wasn't a tank, well... find another group? There are enough necros and scouts in the game that you don't have to party with the suicidal ones. (in my experience badly behaved people favor those classes... no offense to all the good ones out there)</p>

netglen
10-12-2007, 12:03 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I love groups like that at times when I do actually group.  When I need to grab a beer, or fix a hot bar or whatever, just go psuedo afk and do what you gotta do.</p></blockquote>Behold the magic of AFK auto-follow.  /whistle

Kaleyen
10-12-2007, 12:07 PM
Sounds like you were in a good group!

KBern
10-12-2007, 12:13 PM
<cite>netglen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I love groups like that at times when I do actually group.  When I need to grab a beer, or fix a hot bar or whatever, just go psuedo afk and do what you gotta do.</p></blockquote>Behold the magic of AFK auto-follow.  /whistle</blockquote>Exactly! 

Kendricke
10-12-2007, 12:15 PM
<p>A great many of my guild's members are like that.  I know I tend to be.  During a first or second run through of a dungeon, we'll take our time, play through the encounters and puzzles, and generally have a pretty good time.</p><p>But when we're looking to maximize the limited time most of us have online, we don't want to dawdle or wait for players who can't keep up.  For us, we tend to stick to guild groups for this purpose, because outsiders can sometimes slow us down.  We have our way of doing things, we know each other's playstyles and limitations, and we generally run dungeons to accomplish a goal or set of goals (e.g. - gain x% of experience, see if we can get Y item to drop, complete quest Z, etc,.).  Running the dungeon is typically just a means toward an end - whatever that end may be - and the more time we spend working toward that goal is less time we can spend working toward other goals.  </p><p>Are we always like this?  Are all of our members like this?  No, not at all.  But when we want to move quickly, our groups are just as fast as you've described - whether we've picked up outsiders or not - and we make no apologies for it.  We're generally pretty open about the expected pace right off the bat.</p>

jagermonsta
10-12-2007, 12:17 PM
This is how I lead my groups being MT.  The pulling shouldn't have to stop. However if you request to stop for a sec for what ever reason I will normally oblige.

firza
10-12-2007, 12:27 PM
<p>anything is better then the group I was in last weekend. MT looked at every NPC before he pulled it as if it was a scary thing that was gonna eat him alive even before he went into agro raduis.</p><p>1.5 hours CoV group FTL<img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

fbi
10-12-2007, 12:47 PM
<cite>UlteriorModem wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I got into a group last night. I rarely do so but thought it would be nice for a change. Besides I had some heroics I needed to finish off.</p><p>The group was really quite good and I got lots of good exp and learned a few things (multi attacks can be a bad thing for rangers <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />). </p><p>Dont take me wrong Im not dissing anyone here just an observation.</p><p>The 'leader' was a frantic killing maniac, kill, kill, kill run kill kill kill run kill kill kill. All the while I was having some problems with my hot bars, I had dinged an AA, I had leveled, and some other minor issues I wanted to attend to but no cant wait kill, run kill, kill, no rest no pauses just a non stop killing frenzy.</p><p>I tried to explain I needed to fix a few things but all I could get out was "I need to" kill kill kill "fix" kill kill kill "my hot" kill kill kill "bars. I cant" kill kill kill "use a sk" kill kill kill "skill I need". Let alone spec my AA point.</p><p>It was a frantic hectic fighting frenzy.</p><p>Are all groups like this or does anyone play at a less frantic pace ?</p></blockquote>This is my number one reason why I don't group; I hate, no, loathe, that play style.I'm not playing a game for anything else other than fun and entertainment. I'm not in a competition nor am I some spaz achievementnaut ... /shudder.

Windowlicker
10-12-2007, 01:10 PM
<cite>UlteriorModem wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>The 'leader' was a frantic killing maniac, kill, kill, kill run kill kill kill run kill kill kill. All the while I was having some problems with my hot bars, I had dinged an AA, I had leveled, and some other minor issues I wanted to attend to but no cant wait kill, run kill, kill, no rest no pauses just a non stop killing frenzy.</p></blockquote><p>When I tank, I chain pull the entire zone.  In fact, I will pull so fast the healers generally start stressing out because they start running low on power.</p><p>There's a reason for that.</p><p>When you have a group of 6 people, it's not fair to any one of those 6 people to have to wait on one person.  There are already more then enough "valid" reasons for slowing down, without waiting for someone to figure out where they want to spend an AA.</p><p>If you've leveled and the group is moving too fast for you to reconfigure your character?  Too bad.  Wait until the group stops and do your business then.</p><p>Obviously the group was moving along perfectly fine before you leveled, is it really that important for you to spend your AA and set new spells that you need to waste 5 other peoples time?</p><p>Time is valuable for most of us.  Why would we want to spend 3 hours in a zone that should take 1?</p><p>If you really like to doddle around and take your time, there is a ton of solo content.  If you want to group?  Then do everything you can to not interfear with the completion of that zone.  There's nothing worse then people that take frequent AFK's that are absolutely un-needed.</p><p>You'll see why this is important when you start running zones like Castle Mistmoore.  You can't just dork around, or the group will die.</p><p>Is it worth killing the group and putting everyone back to the start of the zone because you want to spend an AA?</p><p>No, it's not.</p>

liveja
10-12-2007, 01:30 PM
<cite>UlteriorModem wrote:</cite> <blockquote><p>Are all groups like this or does anyone play at a less frantic pace ?</p></blockquote><p>On the increasingly rare occasions I do a PUG, I want & expect the group to move quickly.</p><p>When I group with my guildies -- which is increasingly MORE common, as I increasingly loathe PUGs -- we take all kinds of time to slow down & do stuff, talk to each other, AFK for long periods to take care of kids, etc.</p>

Killerbee3000
10-12-2007, 01:52 PM
well... if i want to smell the flowers i solo, if i need plat i two to four box and if i want ot grind i join a group..... smelling flowers is most efficiently done solo... noone [Removed for Content] about being too slow or too fast, no opposition as far as whre to go is concerned... for making money boxing is the best way....for grinding grouping is the best way to do it... but, if you have done the flower smelling and have plat piled up plus seen the zones so and so many times... then well, you simply end up yelling at the tank for pulling to slow...

Baccalarium
10-12-2007, 01:58 PM
Been in groups that were rushed to get to objective X.  or complete an instance in the fastest most optimal time possible bypassing the absolute greatest number of creatures to farm just the named instances.      Been in groups that laughed and swapped chit chat  every few pulls.     They can both be enjoyable, and they both exist.   I would suggest that the chit chatty groups tend to be within guilds and alliances of folks that already know each other though.

UlteriorModem
10-12-2007, 02:27 PM
<p>Well, looks like I may have touched some nerves here.</p><p>I dont really care about the 'chit chat' after all I dont know these people from adams house cat.</p><p>I guess my biggest issue was that I 'felt' as though I dident have time to address some issues that would have allowed me to make more of a contribution to the group. Even though I had stated numerious times I was having issues. Or at least attempted to. Im assuming it got covered up in combat spam.</p><p>I dont know I just feel obligated to make a contribution and just tagging along while trying to fix hotbars and spec AA points is counter to my personality. I know its not like the group is going to die without me but I dont want to appear as a slacker either.</p><p>Also being an old fart I can only handle an hour or so of this frantic frenzy before my nerves are frazzled or worse yet the wife wants to 'chat' and I just cant multi task. My focus is squarely on the game and not her which is not 'sympatico' to our relationship.</p><p>At any rate thanks everyone for your comments and contributions. I must say these forums are pretty mature and insightfull.</p><p>Thanks again.</p>

Novusod
10-12-2007, 02:31 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sounds like you were in a good group!</blockquote>Agreed. After level 50 the xp slows down quite a bit so I want to be in a group that is killing everything in sight as fast as possible.

cyclonus11
10-12-2007, 02:44 PM
/g afk bio*adds achievement point**poisons up weapons**consumes food & drink**maybe grabs a beverage IRL*/g k backkill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill /g afk door*go pee*/g k backkill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill killetc.

Norrsken
10-12-2007, 02:44 PM
<cite>UlteriorModem wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I got into a group last night. I rarely do so but thought it would be nice for a change. Besides I had some heroics I needed to finish off.</p><p>The group was really quite good and I got lots of good exp and learned a few things (multi attacks can be a bad thing for rangers <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />). </p><p>Dont take me wrong Im not dissing anyone here just an observation.</p><p>The 'leader' was a frantic killing maniac, kill, kill, kill run kill kill kill run kill kill kill. All the while I was having some problems with my hot bars, I had dinged an AA, I had leveled, and some other minor issues I wanted to attend to but no cant wait kill, run kill, kill, no rest no pauses just a non stop killing frenzy.</p><p>I tried to explain I needed to fix a few things but all I could get out was "I need to" kill kill kill "fix" kill kill kill "my hot" kill kill kill "bars. I cant" kill kill kill "use a sk" kill kill kill "skill I need". Let alone spec my AA point.</p><p>It was a frantic hectic fighting frenzy.</p><p>Are all groups like this or does anyone play at a less frantic pace ?</p></blockquote>Im normally the guy yous ee cheerfully chatitng away in such groups, while still topping parses, or being the tank. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />If I need to spec an aa, or mess with my hotbars, I'll do that during the fighting and jut simply lay my chatting aside. Hehe. Otoh, I am somewhat of a veteran when it comes to playing games now. Sheesh, starting to feel old.

cyclonus11
10-12-2007, 02:47 PM
I honestly have no idea how you all can converse in chat while fighting.  This is one skill I have yet to figure out - it's either focus on combat, or chat. Not both.I've been playing MMOs since EQ1 Kunark, and I have yet to figure this out. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

Norrsken
10-12-2007, 02:49 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>I honestly have no idea how you all can converse in chat while fighting.  This is one skill I have yet to figure out - it's either focus on combat, or chat. Not both.I've been playing MMOs since EQ1 Kunark, and I have yet to figure this out. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>I type exceptionally fast. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> spelling gets hurt, but meh. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> As long as people understand I reckon its ok. Hehe.

Guy De Alsace
10-12-2007, 02:51 PM
Done Obelisk of Blight in 10 minutes flat. Tank and both healers were raiders. Didnt have time to blink...

liveja
10-12-2007, 02:56 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>I honestly have no idea how you all can converse in chat while fighting. </blockquote>Well, it's certainly not always practical, but ... TeamSpeak & Ventrilo. Who needs to type, when you can simply talk?

cyclonus11
10-12-2007, 02:58 PM
<cite>Guy De Alsace wrote:</cite><blockquote>Done Obelisk of Blight in 10 minutes flat. Tank and both healers were raiders. Didnt have time to blink...</blockquote>Did you kill every mob in zone, get all quest clicky updates, etc.?  Or did you just zerg to the end boss? What does it mean to "do" a zone?

liveja
10-12-2007, 03:04 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>What does it mean to "do" a zone?</blockquote><p>You'll probably get a thousand different answers to that question, all of which are more-or-less valid.</p><p>For me, it depends entirely on the zone I'm doing, & the people I'm doing it with. If, for example, someone managed to talk me into going to OOB (a zone I loathe with every fiber of my being) I'd want to get it over with ASAP. But if I go to New Tunaria with friends, I'd want to take my time, hang out, see the sights, collect shinies, & just enjoy the zone, even tho most mobs there are grey to me.</p>

jagermonsta
10-12-2007, 03:06 PM
yeah I pull the whole zone at once and kill everything in seconds while typing out a report, making forum posts, eating spaghetti with chopsticks, upside down playing with one finger. I'm so good at this game! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

Kendricke
10-12-2007, 03:08 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Guy De Alsace wrote:</cite><blockquote>Done Obelisk of Blight in 10 minutes flat. Tank and both healers were raiders. Didnt have time to blink...</blockquote>Did you kill every mob in zone, get all quest clicky updates, etc.?  Or did you just zerg to the end boss? What does it mean to "do" a zone?</blockquote><p>From my perspective?  Typically it means all named.  The fastest I've personally "done" Obelisk (and killed all named) was around 20 minutes:  pet pulls, feign runs, and mass pulls/AE's throughout.  </p>

interstellarmatter
10-12-2007, 03:13 PM
Back in 2005, I had some of my characters on the AB server.  One of the best nights ever in EQ2 was getting with an RP group in a dungeon.  Not only was the pace slowed down but we had long RP conversations.  It was very immersive and fun.  I couldn't do it everynight but it was fun....hmmm...maybe I should create another character on the AB server....

UlteriorModem
10-12-2007, 03:20 PM
<cite>interstellarmatter wrote:</cite><blockquote>Back in 2005, I had some of my characters on the AB server.  One of the best nights ever in EQ2 was getting with an RP group in a dungeon.  Not only was the pace slowed down but we had long RP conversations.  It was very immersive and fun.  I couldn't do it everynight but it was fun....hmmm...maybe I should create another character on the AB server....</blockquote>Ditto

azekah
10-12-2007, 03:28 PM
<p>What you were in sir, was what some call a "grind" group. That means, getting the most xp and loot is the fastest possible time.</p><p>There is no time for dilidaly in a grind group. That is, unless you set yourself on af...</p><p>Then you can do all kinds of things, ie: make a sandwhich, take a quick nap, pick a slot for you AP...and so on...</p><p>Of course, only assuming you are a dps and not the MT or MH...</p><p>If you go af as one of those, you will prob come back to find your group gone <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>I mean cmon, is one AP really going to make a difference? Not very likely...unless of course its your 22nd and your getting one of those final spells..</p><p>TBH...grind groups are becoming less and less popular because of AA. Unless you are in a place with a good amount of named. Even then, the amount of XP and AA you can get solo/small group questing, it's not really as worth it to do those dungeon crawls anymore.</p><p>Especially because more and more groups seem to only last 30mins to an hour...not nearly enough time to clear a good sized dungeon. Hardly enough time to barely scratch the surface sometimes...</p><p>The time wasting in getting a group, getting set up, waiting for the afks to come back, replacing people who leave, finding a new MT/MH cuz yours just plain sucks, finding another 2 dps cuz the first two had to go to bed...it gets old...</p><p>Especially when you could have spent all that time questing by yourself and accomplished a whole lot more.</p><p>Now does no one group anymore? No, of course not. Clearing a dungeon and  hunting named can still be fun, its just not as easy/worthwhile to do anymore.</p><p>The game is changing. When I first started playing 2 years ago...every few minutes you saw lfm for SH, FG, RoV, that one in EL (been a while)...these days? maybe 1 or 2 a night. I used to group 99% of the time. I honestly NEVER soloed. But then I started to get bored with the endless grind...so I actually gave questing a try...and heck it was a LOT OF FUN, not only that GREAT XP and AA! Since then I've been more like 85% solo, 15% group...maybe even less...</p><p>Of course I'm a casual player, I don't raid...as I don't have a character above 55 yet...so obviously it will differ for a raider. But for the casual...most people have switched to questing...</p>

Freydinessa
10-12-2007, 06:25 PM
<cite>UlteriorModem wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Well, looks like I may have touched some nerves here.</p><p>I dont really care about the 'chit chat' after all I dont know these people from adams house cat.</p><p>I guess my biggest issue was that I 'felt' as though I dident have time to address some issues that would have allowed me to make more of a contribution to the group. Even though I had stated numerious times I was having issues. Or at least attempted to. Im assuming it got covered up in combat spam.</p><p>I dont know I just feel obligated to make a contribution and just tagging along while trying to fix hotbars and spec AA points is counter to my personality. I know its not like the group is going to die without me but I dont want to appear as a slacker either.</p><p>Also being an old fart I can only handle an hour or so of this frantic frenzy before my nerves are frazzled or worse yet the wife wants to 'chat' and I just cant multi task. My focus is squarely on the game and not her which is not 'sympatico' to our relationship.</p><p>At any rate thanks everyone for your comments and contributions. I must say these forums are pretty mature and insightfull.</p><p>Thanks again.</p></blockquote>Yep, it was a 'grind' group as far as i can tell to (as has already been stated above). I stay away from these groups like The Black Death. Nothing more mind numbingly boring and game disrespectful than such a group as you've explained you were in. If you're in any group and you level, you shouldn't have to ask to stop, <i>they should ask you if you want to stop</i>. If they don't, or don't at least apologize when you ask that you need a break to fix something, get out. It is just plain selfish and rude, end of story.My god people, you are in a GROUP. Only 2% of the game population understand what a group is.

Mr1Point5
10-12-2007, 06:57 PM
I tank alot for my guild and we usually move pretty fast unless everyone is chatty or drinking(lots of RR breaks). I do keep an eye on my groups hp & mp bars and slow my pace accordingly. I will usually ask to see who has done the quest/raid before to see if I need to slow down to give directions or let them catch up. As forgiving as I am, I do not want to stop so someone can figure out where to put his next aa. If you say, "I just got a new spell. Let me put it in my hotbar." I'll stop, but not for long. If you REALLY have to spend that point *right-click Follow*. Always worked for me(when not the tank).

Gnevil
10-13-2007, 02:35 AM
<p>Yep you were in a grind group.</p><p>If you wanted to be in a fun group (not that grinding isn't fun for some) then get guildies or hit your friends list and form up a group.</p><p>Being a tank, a healer and a dps'r with my three top toons, and having been a long long time raid tank.  I know what a group is capable of when I get in them or form them, when and if I do PUG's we adjust accordingly to everyones abilities.  First thing I do is peek at everyones gear, at least those that I don't already know by reputation or having grouped but not friended them before.  And we attack whatever has been agreed upon.</p><p>As to doing instance runs, yeah you get a couple of competant raiders in the group in the power roles, ie.. the tank, the healer ect and you will move exceptionally fast, this comes from a few things, one is knowing your limits inside and out, two you are geared so far beyond the mobs you are fighting that it takes more then 3 or 4 to even cause a hiccup and doing things like OOB, which you have done so many freaking times you could do it in your sleep are just a test of how freaking fast can we pull every single mob, finish and move to CoV where we repeat the exact same proceedure ... lol ...</p><p>As to the 10 minute run, you know have never really timed it, but I know we did OOB, COV and Acadism start to finish, bypassing anything that didn't involve the names that we could and finished all three zones in just over an hour.  Acad was actually alot of fun, pulling entire rooms at once then before even being done, moving to the next room and repeating.  But then having mostly fabled gear and masters makes alot of the content exceptionally mundane.  </p><p>During the early part of the day, which what I usually play on during the week, you usually find pretty competent peeps playing the game, this is because the young ones are all at school... lol and the other ones that suffer from [I cannot control my vocabulary]preening are usually at thier jobs or college.  So these types of groups are very very common.</p><p>But for the op you just have to build a friends list and go with the flow if you can't build your own group.  Pug's can be fun no matter which type you get.  But they can also be painfully strenous, nothing gets me going like being begged to come tank or heal or dps for a group that has a friend in it, form up say gtg? And then have peeps say umm I forgot to repair, I need to afk .. bio ect.  Lol usually in those instances we have said person AF the healer and we move forward anyway.</p><p>Most peeps would kill for a group like you have.  But only advice I can give you is only group with friends or guildies if you want to immerse yourself in the zone lore and chat alot ect.  For PUGS take them as you get them, and try not to bail immediately if they don't meet your expectations.  the game is what you make of it.</p>

TuinalOfTheNexus
10-13-2007, 07:35 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Yep, it was a 'grind' group as far as i can tell to (as has already been stated above). I stay away from these groups like The Black Death. Nothing more mind numbingly boring and game disrespectful than such a group as you've explained you were in. If you're in any group and you level, you shouldn't have to ask to stop, <i>they should ask you if you want to stop</i>. If they don't, or don't at least apologize when you ask that you need a break to fix something, get out. It is just plain selfish and rude, end of story.My god people, you are in a GROUP. Only 2% of the game population understand what a group is.</p></blockquote><p>And it's not selfish or rude to make 5 people wait because you need to make a sandwich/sort your hotbars/chat in guild/arrange your inventory?</p><p>It's just plain common sense to make sure you've got your UI and inventory sorted before turning LFG on. Failing that, I don't see what stops you auto-following for a few mins while you sort things out. Hell the group is actually helping you, because you're still getting exp while you get sorted. As a tank I appreciate players who say they could use a break, but are okay waiting till we're in a safe spot and we can all take 5 mins at the same time for bio/coffee/whatever.</p><p>This goes double for raids, there is <i>nothing</i> more selfish on a raid than someone who afk's when they feel like it, or turns up unprepared. Making 5 people wait is selfish, making 23 wait on a regular basis is inexcusable.</p><p>Finally, if only 2% of the population agree with your definition of what a group is, do you not think it's perhaps you and not 98% of people who might be wrong?</p>

Gromph
10-13-2007, 08:43 AM
<cite>UlteriorModem wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I got into a group last night. I rarely do so but thought it would be nice for a change. Besides I had some heroics I needed to finish off.</p><p>The group was really quite good and I got lots of good exp and learned a few things (multi attacks can be a bad thing for rangers <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />). </p><p>Dont take me wrong Im not dissing anyone here just an observation.</p><p>The 'leader' was a frantic killing maniac, kill, kill, kill run kill kill kill run kill kill kill. All the while I was having some problems with my hot bars, I had dinged an AA, I had leveled, and some other minor issues I wanted to attend to but no cant wait kill, run kill, kill, no rest no pauses just a non stop killing frenzy.</p><p>I tried to explain I needed to fix a few things but all I could get out was "I need to" kill kill kill "fix" kill kill kill "my hot" kill kill kill "bars. I cant" kill kill kill "use a sk" kill kill kill "skill I need". Let alone spec my AA point.</p><p>It was a frantic hectic fighting frenzy.</p><p>Are all groups like this or does anyone play at a less frantic pace ?</p></blockquote>This is also my experience of grouping. Often people are "running around lika maniacs". Of course, that sometimes results in a wipe. Usually the group has been overpowered so I has just been as challanging as to cut grass with a lawnmower. And that isn't really fun.This is mot my preferred playing style. I enjoy a more laid back style combined with challanging encounters where I have to consider a moment before I attack. I have finally found that soloing is fun and grouping is not fun, and play according to that.

Jrral
10-13-2007, 01:17 PM
<cite>TuinalOfTheNexus wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>And it's not selfish or rude to make 5 people wait because you need to make a sandwich/sort your hotbars/chat in guild/arrange your inventory?</blockquote>No, it's not selfish or rude. Everyone needs breaks at times, what's selfish and rude is failing to acknowledge that, or expecting someone to ignore their guild completely. And when someone dings a level and gains new abilities, you'd better believe as MT I want them to rearrange their hotbars to include those new abilities. Higher-damage spells, better heals, better buffs, <i>new</i> abilities or buffs they didn't have before, all of those make it easier for the group. And when someone's just dinged an x2 and can put on that next-tier MC gear they're carrying, am I going to take time to let them? <b>You freakin' betcha!</b> For that big a bump in a member's effectiveness, you bet I'm going to take a minute or two down-time.What happens if as MT I'm pausing for someone in the group and you decide I'm taking too long? Well, "You pulled it, you keep it.". <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Windowlicker
10-13-2007, 01:26 PM
If it's one thing I do know about this game, is everything is VERY dependent on maintaining a level of momentum.  The second you stop the group to let someone sort inventory, or do anything that isn't progressing the group through the zone ... you will have someone get impatient and start wandering.This is where groups wipe.You need to keep things moving, and you need to keep a steady pace.  If you don't, then things have a much higher chance of screwing up.

Araxes
10-13-2007, 02:58 PM
It was probably an alt of a veteran player who was just power leveling one of his friends, or just in a rush to power level himself.  Or, it was someone young and inexperienced who happened to have a knack for tanking, and was thusly able to stay alive.In any case, I find it's about 10% of the time that I get into these sorts of groups.  It's more common at higher levels, of course, but that's bc most people are experienced enough at that point to move quickly and die less.  At lower levels, though, it can be dangerous to whip through dungeons like that when people are trying to arrange hotbars and read spell descriptions and assign achievement points.A couple suggestions to help you out:- go ahead and set up 4 hotbars right away.  Make them transparent.  Make them able to have movable icons.  When you level up, hit F10, and then you can see all your windows and hotbars on an black background.  Move your icons around, then.  Hit F10 2 more times to get back to the normal interface.- I'd simply wait to assign achievment points until there is a break in the pace or the group disbands.  Then you have time to carefully read and decide.- keep your UI to a minimum.  I have everything on my screen fully transparent except for a light shadow behind the chat box so I can read the text when I'm standing in bright areas.  Set your hotbars to be always visible, but on transparent backgrounds, and hide the gold boxes and spinners around them, as well.  Then you will just have your icons.  It looks much nicer.  (Do all of this by right clicking just outside the hotbar or window and choosing Hotbar Settings / Window Settings from the drop down.)

Andu
10-13-2007, 04:52 PM
Heres an idea. Fix your hotbar THEN join a group.Expecting people to hang around twiddling their thumbs while you muck around with your UI is just bad manners.

Freydinessa
10-13-2007, 05:11 PM
<cite>TuinalOfTheNexus wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Yep, it was a 'grind' group as far as i can tell to (as has already been stated above). I stay away from these groups like The Black Death. Nothing more mind numbingly boring and game disrespectful than such a group as you've explained you were in. If you're in any group and you level, you shouldn't have to ask to stop, <i>they should ask you if you want to stop</i>. If they don't, or don't at least apologize when you ask that you need a break to fix something, get out. It is just plain selfish and rude, end of story.My god people, you are in a GROUP. Only 2% of the game population understand what a group is.</p></blockquote><p>And it's not selfish or rude to make 5 people wait because you need to make a sandwich/sort your hotbars/chat in guild/arrange your inventory?</p><p><span style="color: #66ffff;">Make a sandwich: no. unless you've been in the group only 5 min. You're missing the point of the post</span></p><p><span style="color: #66ffff;">Sort your Hotbars: ROFL, no. how anyone can sort their hotbars <i>before</i> the level is beyond me.</span></p><p><span style="color: #66ffff;">Chat in Guild: Yes. But once again this is not post related.</span></p><p><span style="color: #66ffff;">Arrange your inventory: i'm surprised people would try this. But once again, not post related</span></p><p>It's just plain common sense to make sure you've got your UI and inventory sorted before turning LFG on. Failing that, I don't see what stops you auto-following for a few mins while you sort things out. <span style="color: #66ffff;">Auto-follow is not always an option, and in any case it's much ruder to auto-follow and have your group die because you aren't there to heal them etc. </span>Hell the group is actually helping you, because you're still getting exp while you get sorted. <span style="color: #66ffff;">'Hell' you're 'actually' helping the group too. A group should look after all their members.</span> As a tank I appreciate players who say they could use a break, but are okay waiting till we're in a safe spot and we can all take 5 mins at the same time for bio/coffee/whatever. <span style="color: #66ffff;">Yes, i agree. And i've found most players do this, unless there is something unavoidable happening at home, e.g. a knock at the door.</span></p><p>This goes double for raids, there is <i>nothing</i> more selfish on a raid than someone who afk's when they feel like it, or turns up unprepared. Making 5 people wait is selfish, making 23 wait on a regular basis is inexcusable. <span style="color: #66ffff;">Making a group regularly wait here and there is rude, unless they have an apt reason for doing so.</span></p><p>Finally, if only 2% of the population agree with your definition of what a group is, do you not think it's perhaps you and not 98% of people who might be wrong? <span style="color: #66ffff;">A) it's not <i>my</i> definition of a group, it's <i>the</i> definition of a group. b) Standing in with the crowd (the 98%) may make one feel safe, but it doesn't make them right.</span> </p><p><span style="color: #66ffff;">The bottom line is you're in a group with other people - not with other computers. You have to be flexible.</span></p></blockquote>

erin
10-13-2007, 06:03 PM
I'm not entirely sure you guys read the original post.<cite>UlteriorModem wrote:</cite><blockquote>I tried to explain I needed to fix a few things but all I could get out was "I need to" kill kill kill "fix" kill kill kill "my hot" kill kill kill "bars. I cant" kill kill kill "use a sk" kill kill kill "skill I need". Let alone spec my AA point.</blockquote>Why are you fixing hotbars in a group?  As several people already said, you do this stuff BEFORE you put up LFG.  How rude is it to join a group and then make them wait 5 minutes while you do things you should have already done?Specing an AA?  Again, as already said, you were obviously doing ok before you dinged an AA, if you can't get it done while fighting, then wait till after the group. Or your other option.  If the group isn't to your liking, then leave.I don't like frenetic groups either, but I do think from your post that you were screwing around with things you should have done before or after the group and expecting the other 5 people to sit on their thumbs waiting for you.  Look at it from their perspective.

baddawgaaron
10-13-2007, 06:38 PM
62 dirge on guk looking for a group exactly like the one described by OP, PST: Weiderkher.<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

melaine_dvarvensplitter
10-13-2007, 07:28 PM
One thing I really like about grind groups aside from the obvious xp... loot. I have made good to great money on loot and trash drops from grind groups.

Jrral
10-13-2007, 07:42 PM
<cite>Anduri wrote:</cite><blockquote>Heres an idea. Fix your hotbar THEN join a group.</blockquote>Um, one question. How do you fix the hotbars to include spells/CAs you <i>don't have yet</i>? The usual thing that happens to me is I ding a level during the run. When I suddenly get 2-3 new items that replace old ones, I need to scribe the new items, remove the old icons from my hotbar and put the new ones in their place and then if any of them replaced until-cancelled buffs I need to cancel those buffs and recast. Giving a chance for upgrades like that can't be anything but beneficial to the group.And then there's cases where an errant keystroke has borked my hotbars up and put the wrong one in the wrong spot. It only takes maybe 10 seconds to sort it out and fix it, but it does take 10 seconds of not having to move/navigate, cast spells or use CAs.

Gladiia
10-13-2007, 08:48 PM
<p>As far as the AAs go, by the time I am level 20 or so, I try to always know where I am going to put my next 5-10 AA points.  When I AA ding in a group, it's just "L" click, "OK."  There are times when I am not sure, so I wait until we decide on a break.  </p><p>Almost every post I read here for both sides have very valid, sound points.  The point is, it comes down to respecting the other people in the group, which goes both ways.  </p><p>Not all groups are fast.  Some are.  I like both kinds - I prefer the faster ones at the higher levels, cuz I do these instances more often.  I like the slower ones at the lower levels, because aside from SH, I am surprised by how much of some places I still haven't seen.  Both are fun, and it's best to go with what is already together.  The only groups that really suck are the ones that have someone causing repeated wipes from doing dumb stuff (this doesn't include a hard place that a group is struggling thru - that can be quite fun as well).  You know, the ones where the wizard decides to pull instead of letting the tank, only pulls the entire room.  And then when the group wipes, the wizard seems to not get that is why the group wiped, and does it again.</p>

Sunlei
10-14-2007, 12:36 AM
<p> oh lol 2 game changes I think would add more challange <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> people always saying it's to easy.</p><p>1) auto follow drops whenever a group starts combat.</p><p>2)aggroed mobs chase forever, larger the pack more the aggro range. like mm of old <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>3)one must be in buff range to mentor and/or the mentored character must be in buff range of the kill for loot to drop.</p><p>ok 3 changes hehe </p>

NANEEJE
10-14-2007, 12:56 AM
<p>ok, i am not trying to be rear end retentive here, but ... when i go to a place to group, i know what spells i am going to upgrade before i get them (research) and have them ready so that way , in the middle of a fight, i will pull up my macro pad ( o ) then have the macro spell replaced so all of my hot bars are ready. when you purchase from the broker, they dont care what level or class you are. So you can buy your adept 1 , 3, master, whatever before you get there. I bought a sword sooo cheap , but i couldnt use it till i was level 21, but i knew where it was. I suggest that first starting few minutes of play when you log on is making sure your set up for group play. </p><p>hot bars are scrollable, up to 10, right click on bar, make it "scrollable" and set up your hot bars,, have your main one you always use in both battles, have your solo bar, or two, and then have your group bars, ( i need two hot bars just for groups). Good luck and have fun, this will make it more fun for you . </p>

NANEEJE
10-14-2007, 12:57 AM
<cite>Sunlei wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> oh lol 2 game changes I think would add more challange <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /> people always saying it's to easy.</p><p>1) auto follow drops whenever a group starts combat.</p><p>2)aggroed mobs chase forever, larger the pack more the aggro range. like mm of old <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>3)one must be in buff range to mentor and/or the mentored character must be in buff range of the kill for loot to drop.</p><p>ok 3 changes hehe </p></blockquote>wow, would that change tha game a whole lot, then mentoring would mean................ mentoring? is that allowed?'

Giral
10-14-2007, 02:21 AM
<p>it's funny that no matter what you do you can't please everyone, </p><p>you get in a Great group , that plows thru the zone ,you rack up loot, Aa's, ding levels and think that would all be Good things you  clear the zone at that pace in 1/2 to an 1 Hour .......and then you could choose your New Aa, scribe a new spell, fix your hotbar etc,, </p><p> are all groups like that ?  NOPE , alot of pick up groups you will be lying face down dead with plenty of time to choose aa's, scribe spells, fix hotbars <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />   BUT then of course your not happy becuase the group sucks and you think ALL grouping is like this , die die die,,, revive, rebuff, die die die ,,,,revive,, rebuff,,, Repair kit, die die die,,, zone out find a mender </p><p> pretty much every group you get into will be diffrent with 24 classes, various levels of equipment, spells,skills,knowledge of the zones or lack of knowledge , etc,,,,   no not every group is fast paced and wants to get the zone that they have cleared 150 times already over and done with as fast as possible. </p><p>another thing to consider is that alot of people are on Teamspeak or Ventrillo, so they arent watching Chat , they are talking to friends and guildies as they plow thru the zone, and might not see you ask in chat about something, Send the Tank a TELL /i Need to AFK for a Minute, Auto following /insert playername here <--- this wont slow the group down, it will let the MT know your going afk, and he/she can keep an eye on you wyle they pull </p><p>if you did ask in chat 2 times that you needed a 1 minute break and you were blatently ignored, then the 3rd time you should write in ALL CAPS  " I NEED A QUICK AFK Please "  if that dont get the groups atention then yeah you should say in Chat " IM giong AFK for a minute Auto following /insert class here"  and then just Auto follow and take your leave , </p>

DizzyGee
10-15-2007, 09:18 AM
Also not trying to be lame here, but I agree with someone above who mentioned that he (and most I would think) already knows exactly where that next aa-point is going to go: I hit "L" mid-fight and place the point... it's a matter of seconds. (I like to take a look at the aa-abilities and possibilities when I have downtime or before I log out - if not outside of the game.)The same actually applies to spells: I hit "K" and drag the new spell to the spot where the old one was (I have my casting order setup on my hotbar before I start a group) - this also takes less than a minute, even if it is not an upgrade and needs a new spot... not to mention the possibilities of speeding up the process with scrollable hotbars and macros (as was also mentioned above). I know what spells are coming up and usually have the version (app4, adept1, adept3, or master) already in my bag... I hit "B", double-click the spell to scribe it, hit "K", drag-and-drop, and violá ready to go (= less than 1 minute and can be done while fighting/healing).That, of course, would just be a solution to the problem of having to change things after leveling (I have to boggle when I read the request for time to do so in group chat).As far as the speed of the group is concerned, if you don't like that style then you just don't like it - nothing wrong with that and nothing stopping you from leaving the group to find/form a group that moves at a pace you are comfortable with. I like both types of groups... if I want to take my time I usually grab some guildies or say it explicitly when forming the group (yeah, I am usually the one forming the groups). Sometimes I want to move quickly, and that is usually the case if I have run the instance several times (or several hundred times)... in fact, I rolled up a guard just to see if I was being unrealistic with my desire for the tank to move more quickly - I wasn't.Sounds like a good group to me, just not for you. You might have more luck forming the groups yourself and making the rules for the group - that way everyone knows that you want to take it slow (which is totally legitimate in my opinion). The main thing is that YOU have fun. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" /> 

TuinalOfTheNexus
10-15-2007, 09:43 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>TuinalOfTheNexus wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Yep, it was a 'grind' group as far as i can tell to (as has already been stated above). I stay away from these groups like The Black Death. Nothing more mind numbingly boring and game disrespectful than such a group as you've explained you were in. If you're in any group and you level, you shouldn't have to ask to stop, <i>they should ask you if you want to stop</i>. If they don't, or don't at least apologize when you ask that you need a break to fix something, get out. It is just plain selfish and rude, end of story.My god people, you are in a GROUP. Only 2% of the game population understand what a group is.</p></blockquote><p>And it's not selfish or rude to make 5 people wait because you need to make a sandwich/sort your hotbars/chat in guild/arrange your inventory?</p><p><span style="color: #66ffff;">Make a sandwich: no. unless you've been in the group only 5 min. You're missing the point of the post</span></p><p><span style="color: #66ffff;">Sort your Hotbars: ROFL, no. how anyone can sort their hotbars <i>before</i> the level is beyond me.</span></p><p><span style="color: #66ffff;">Chat in Guild: Yes. But once again this is not post related.</span></p><p><span style="color: #66ffff;">Arrange your inventory: i'm surprised people would try this. But once again, not post related</span></p><p>It's just plain common sense to make sure you've got your UI and inventory sorted before turning LFG on. Failing that, I don't see what stops you auto-following for a few mins while you sort things out. <span style="color: #66ffff;">Auto-follow is not always an option, and in any case it's much ruder to auto-follow and have your group die because you aren't there to heal them etc. </span>Hell the group is actually helping you, because you're still getting exp while you get sorted. <span style="color: #66ffff;">'Hell' you're 'actually' helping the group too. A group should look after all their members.</span> As a tank I appreciate players who say they could use a break, but are okay waiting till we're in a safe spot and we can all take 5 mins at the same time for bio/coffee/whatever. <span style="color: #66ffff;">Yes, i agree. And i've found most players do this, unless there is something unavoidable happening at home, e.g. a knock at the door.</span></p><p>This goes double for raids, there is <i>nothing</i> more selfish on a raid than someone who afk's when they feel like it, or turns up unprepared. Making 5 people wait is selfish, making 23 wait on a regular basis is inexcusable. <span style="color: #66ffff;">Making a group regularly wait here and there is rude, unless they have an apt reason for doing so.</span></p><p>Finally, if only 2% of the population agree with your definition of what a group is, do you not think it's perhaps you and not 98% of people who might be wrong? <span style="color: #66ffff;">A) it's not <i>my</i> definition of a group, it's <i>the</i> definition of a group. b) Standing in with the crowd (the 98%) may make one feel safe, but it doesn't make them right.</span> </p><p><span style="color: #66ffff;">The bottom line is you're in a group with other people - not with other computers. You have to be flexible.</span></p></blockquote></blockquote><p>The problem people make when they try to disect a post with <span style="color: #00cc00;">cool colored text </span>is they fall into the trap of feeling they have to disagree/comment on every sentence, and end up making very little sense.</p><p>So rather than add to the multicolored monstrosity, I'll focus on the "definition" of group. Obviously I won't do something so trite as quoting the dictionary, since clearly what we're discussing is the MMORPG definition of the term. I'd argue very strongly that it simply means 6 people linked via game mechanics and (usually) a common goal. I feel it's condescending to suggest people grouping should conform to your rules regarding behavior, and your nebulous yet apparently "correct" interpretation of the word. Granted, I might also be guilty of being condescending, but since I've chain pulled every raid and group instance succesfully, and got us through EH in about 3 hours last night, I think I'm allowed a bit of arrogance and impatience when it comes to bad players. And <u>bad</u> players is the only way to describe it - they might well be nice people, but if I want a social chat or hotbar tweaking I can do it without slowing my group down, because like any decent player I can multitask.</p><p>With respect to hotbars, I feel it's reasonable to expect any player to have a broad knowledge of the abilities they'll gain on levelling, and have thought ahead with regards to hotbar space and AA assignment. It takes all of 5 seconds for me to get an icon from knowledge book to hotbar, which most people can quite happily do while solo healing a group or even tanking. Failing that and assuming you bizarrely need 5 minutes to hotbar an icon, I don't see why you need to hotbar these abilities or assign AAs immediately on levelling; since the group was fine before you levelled, it's reasonable to assume your new heal or whatever isn't utterly critical to success.</p>

Kendricke
10-15-2007, 10:13 AM
<p>Tuinal sums up a lot of my feelings on the subject.</p><p>Another way of putting it might well be to discuss the term "respect".  It might seem more respectful to hold up a chain pulling group because one player needs time to concentrate on rearranging hotbars and achievements for a "minute or two".  However, respect is a two way street...and while we're concentrating on whether or not one particular groupmate is receiving enough respect, we're not really discussing how respectful it is for that one groupmate to hold up 5 other people who don't necessarily need to AFK just to "rearrange hotbars" whenever they level.  </p><p>There's two different skill levels at work here.  Players who have high skill within this game tend to want to group with other people of similar skill levels.  They don't necessarily want to slow down because a member of the group is having trouble keeping up - whether that keeping up is related directly to gameplay, or simply indirectly (i.e. - rearranging hotkeys).  </p><p>Just the other night, we had a guild group rush through Sanctum of the Scaleborn just to help level up some alternate characters.  We were pulling entire rooms of ^^^ heroics at once, and then AE bursting right through them.  The experience coming in was ridiculous.  My own alt pulled in a level and a half and 4 achievements in just over an hour...and not once did I hold up the group because I needed to spend points or rearrange hotbars.  </p><p>Why?  Because I didn't feel it was respectful of me toward my groupmates to be the one person holding them up because I couldn't keep up with the changing environment.  So I left most of my achievement points unspent and replaced my new combat arts on the run.  When the group was over and I could look at the experience I'd pulled in, I was able to then take my time (and no one else's) and think through my achievements.  </p>

liveja
10-15-2007, 10:16 AM
<cite>TuinalOfTheNexus wrote:</cite><blockquote>Failing that and assuming you bizarrely need 5 minutes to hotbar an icon, I don't see why you need to hotbar these abilities or assign AAs immediately on levelling; since the group was fine before you levelled, it's reasonable to assume your new heal or whatever isn't utterly critical to success.</blockquote>I actually rarely agree with Tuinal, but this particular post (all of it, not just the paragraph quoted) is pretty much spot-on.

UlteriorModem
10-15-2007, 12:13 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>TuinalOfTheNexus wrote:</cite><blockquote>Failing that and assuming you bizarrely need 5 minutes to hotbar an icon, I don't see why you need to hotbar these abilities or assign AAs immediately on levelling; since the group was fine before you levelled, it's reasonable to assume your new heal or whatever isn't utterly critical to success.</blockquote>I actually rarely agree with Tuinal, but this particular post (all of it, not just the paragraph quoted) is pretty much spot-on.</blockquote><p>I'll take a moment to point out one of the problems "I" was having was that the "Buff display" or whatever you call it had become cluttered and covered up one of my key abilitys, poision. As a ranger, highly dependant on his poisions, it is somewhat important to well.. me at least to know if my poision is still active or not.</p><p>Call me old fashion I like to feel a group  'needs' my contribution towards the goal. Fiddeling around with hotbars and such in the middle of combat in my mind is not contributing.</p><p>As far as 'knowing in advance' where you are going to place your AA's, spells, or class skills I bow to your uberness. I frankly have no clue as to what is comming next and like to 'ponder' the decision and not make a stupid mistake in the heat of combat.</p><p>But keep up the discussion, I see alot of good suggestions and ideas comming out of this and I dont want to make this all about 'my' situation.</p>

Kendricke
10-15-2007, 12:31 PM
<cite>UlteriorModem wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Call me old fashion I like to feel a group  'needs' my contribution towards the goal. Fiddeling around with hotbars and such in the middle of combat in my mind is not contributing.</p></blockquote><p>You may want to feel that way, but the reality is that the group may be just fine without your contribution.  Basically, we're talking about pride here.  You want to feel needed.  You want the group to feel you're contributing.  There's nothing wrong with desiring that feeling.  However, when you act on that feeling to hold up 5 other players because you personally want to only participate if you're at 100% efficiency...you're actually reducing the group's efficiency to 0% (instead of merely reducing their efficiency by whatever percentage you were actually contributing).</p><p><cite></cite></p><p><cite>UlteriorModem wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>As far as 'knowing in advance' where you are going to place your AA's, spells, or class skills I bow to your uberness. I frankly have no clue as to what is comming next and like to 'ponder' the decision and not make a stupid mistake in the heat of combat.</p></blockquote><p>It's not about "uberness".  It's called "class knowledge".  The usual way for self-education in the subject is by visiting fansites or class specific forums.  Truly, there exist plenty of spell lists for each and every ability you can come across within the game.  </p><p>Achievements are even easier, because you can actually see every possible achievement you can potentially earn, and how they fit together.  You don't need a list to determine what achievements do what, because you can see all the information you need well in advance. </p><p>Even if you're not sure what abilities you have coming up 10 levels from now, you can at least see which abilities are coming up in the next level or three and prepare for it.  Veteran players visit the broker and buy their abilities well in advance, so they don't have to call back to town just to upgrade an Apprentice I (wait till you hit level 51 or higher, because at that point you won't even receive a new spell automatically).  </p>

BoneSmasher
10-15-2007, 04:24 PM
<p>As a 70/100 AA raiding Guardian with 2 level 70 alts, I would like to share some perspective with you:</p><p>I have been through all of the group content in this game at least 50 times probably.  So if I am leading a group as the MT, and I have anyone less than level 70 in my group, I tend to assume that they are there to get XP at a very good pace.</p><p>I assess who I have in the group, consider the zone we are doing, (which I have probably done at least 25 times by now), and start cranking through the zone at the maximum pace the group can endure.</p><p>If I have a group member that needs to attend to something, as long as they are not my primary healer, I just have them auto-follow and keep on going.</p><p>So yes, I run grind groups and I make no apologies for that.  That is what most people expect me to do when they join a group with me. If you tell me on joining that you need a particular quest update, I will make sure you get it if possible.  But getting to it is going to be fast.</p><p>There is nothing more mind numbingly boring than tanking HoF / CoV / etc. etc.  for the bazillionth time, so if I have one of my guildie raiding healers and some decent DPS, I am probably going to pull entire rooms at once.</p><p>EQ2 is a pretty mature game now, meaning that a great many players are already at the level cap and are leveling alts for the most part.  So they have already learned these tricks:</p><p>1. Buy all your spells you can afford for up to 5 levels in advance and stick them in your bags.</p><p>2. Always keep plenty of the highest level food and drink on you.</p><p>3. Plan your AAs in advance so picking them is just a matter of hitting L and clicking on the one you have already chosen.</p><p>4. Going to be hitting a new tier soon?  Have your new armor in your bags and ready to go for when you hit that level.</p><p>5. Stayed repaired up.</p><p>Nothing irritates me more than having someone join a group with me that is at 10% armor, has no food or drink and needs to AFK every 5 minutes.  If that is how you are going to play, then soloing or duoing with a close freind is a better choice.  </p><p>Before you agree to a group, ask them what their objectives are:</p><p>1. Experience grind? Expect and hope for a madman's pace, since it is a grind group.</p><p>2. Quest update group?  Will probably be a lot slower in pace.</p><p>Honestly, if you want to "experience" the group content, then try to find a regular group of friends who you can group with that are still leveling their first main characters.  They will be running at a far difference pace from experienced grinding groups.</p>