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View Full Version : Idea - Make Master spell drops be like the EOF legendary set pieces


Allurana
10-09-2007, 03:56 PM
<p>Today I had something happen in game I have NEVER had happen in my almost 3 solid years of playing this game.</p><p>I actually looted a master spell that one of my characters present in the group could actually use.</p><p>I have been 2 boxing this game almost from day 1.  I have been 3 boxing for almost a year now.  I play by myself a lot of the time so I get all the loot.  I farm Nest and Acadechism on a regular basis to get items to transmute.  I can kill a LOT of the heroic content in this game with my 3 characters and do.</p><p>Today was the first time I got a master spell I could actually use on one of my 3 characters.</p><p>How is this for an idea for future development - make it so when a Exquisite Chest is going to appear and a master spell is going to be in that chest - make it be one for the classes present for the kill just like you do for EOF legendary armor now?</p><p>Think about it.  Master spells are not raid gear, they aren't game breaking, they RARE RARE RARE.  This would be a VERY nice change for me and I am sure quite a few other people.</p><p>The only people I could see this hurting is farmers that go after masters to sell.  I guess the brokers would fill up with wizard and bruiser masters - haha.</p><p>Just an idea, I am sure I will be flamed into oblivion in .....3....2.....1.......</p>

Norrsken
10-09-2007, 04:02 PM
Its a good though, but I think that the current system favors interaction between players, and as such, is a good system. you get stuff you dont need, so yous ell it to get money to get the stuff you need.Personally, I think that they should get rid of this stupid craze for the No-Trade gear and just make stuff theyd ont want farmed Lore. The best stuff can be no-trade, but I mean, ever last bit of gear shouldnt.

UlteriorModem
10-09-2007, 04:06 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>Its a good though, but I think that the current system favors interaction between players, and as such, is a good system. you get stuff you dont need, so yous ell it to get money to get the stuff you need.Personally, I think that they should get rid of this stupid craze for the No-Trade gear and just make stuff theyd ont want farmed Lore. The best stuff can be no-trade, but I mean, ever last bit of gear shouldnt.</blockquote><p>They have to have a money sink somewhere elsewise the economy would spiral out of control.</p><p>BTW might want to clean that space bar <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

interstellarmatter
10-09-2007, 04:07 PM
<p>A large time spent by players reaching max level is trying to get all the top tier masters for their class.  If you made it more common for the people in the group, it would probably destroy 80% of their playtime.  Plus, it does drive an economy.  You get a master not for you so you put it up on the broker. You make money, you try to buy a master for your class.</p><p>We're not trying to isolate people here where they don't have to buy/sell on the broker.</p>

KBern
10-09-2007, 04:09 PM
<p>It is just as easy to take the masters looted and sell them to go and buy the ones you need.</p><p>The issue would be certain people would have a HUGE benefit over others in regards to duplicates.  Take Necros for example.  I have all my masters.  That means every master I get would then be a necro master I can sell for nice plat because some classes (like necros) pay more for their masters than some others (say Troubs).</p><p>So while I am making a ton of cash selling off pet masters and pet buffs, etc....a poor troub would be lucky to give his masters away that drop.</p><p>I also like the fact that I personally dont need to find all my masters and friends and guildies can find them and give them to me, and vice versa, this system would take that option away.</p>

Norrsken
10-09-2007, 04:09 PM
<cite>UlteriorModem wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>Its a good though, but I think that the current system favors interaction between players, and as such, is a good system. you get stuff you dont need, so yous ell it to get money to get the stuff you need.Personally, I think that they should get rid of this stupid craze for the No-Trade gear and just make stuff theyd ont want farmed Lore. The best stuff can be no-trade, but I mean, ever last bit of gear shouldnt.</blockquote><p>They have to have a money sink somewhere elsewise the economy would spiral out of control.</p><p>BTW might want to clean that space bar <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote>Hehe, yeah, funny thing is, my misplaced spaces never happen when I am programming, only when typing normal language. I think I need to rewire my thumbs more than I need to clean my keyboard. I did that not too long ago actually. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

netglen
10-09-2007, 05:12 PM
<cite>interstellarmatter wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>A large time spent by players reaching max level is trying to get all the top tier masters for their class.  If you made it more common for the people in the group, it would probably destroy 80% of their playtime.  Plus, it does drive an economy.  You get a master not for you so you put it up on the broker. You make money, you try to buy a master for your class.</p><p>We're not trying to isolate people here where they don't have to buy/sell on the broker.</p></blockquote>But if you look at it a different way, doesn't making these L.50+ Master so rare just drive the plat buying business? Since I started teaming and raiding from L.50-L.69, I've seen zero Master books drops for my character and 4 Master books for other classes which I didn't win or the team agreed to NBG. I would probably need a few hundred plat just to buy up my important Master spell books. So I'm stuck using Adept-IIIs for everything because the prices for the brokered books are way too high IMHO.

Rijacki
10-09-2007, 05:34 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>UlteriorModem wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>Its a good though, but I think that the current system favors interaction between players, and as such, is a good system. you get stuff you dont need, so yous ell it to get money to get the stuff you need.Personally, I think that they should get rid of this stupid craze for the No-Trade gear and just make stuff theyd ont want farmed Lore. The best stuff can be no-trade, but I mean, ever last bit of gear shouldnt.</blockquote><p>They have to have a money sink somewhere elsewise the economy would spiral out of control.</p><p>BTW might want to clean that space bar <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote>Hehe, yeah, funny thing is, my misplaced spaces never happen when I am programming, only when typing normal language. I think I need to rewire my thumbs more than I need to clean my keyboard. I did that not too long ago actually. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /></blockquote>You rewired your thumbs?!!  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />(but yeah, I have the same problem at times, but more when I am posting from my Treo than from a standard keyboard... but the backspace key is easier to hit on a standard keyboard, too *smirk*)

funkmasterflex
10-09-2007, 07:04 PM
im in the same boat of never ever getting anything to drop that i can actually use. i always thought it was in the game physics to make everything that drops a warlock spell or a troubie spell or some other random loot that cant be used by anyone in the group. dont know what that accomplishes other than aggrivation. i even rolled a warlock just to pawn all the junk i get for that class. ive got a fairly twinked out CL28 warlock but other than that the loot tables and randomizer really seems to hate me. ive also found that with a toon in the 15 to 20 range a fair number of tier 2 mobs seem to drop gear that is way below that range. ive been getting alot of lvl 1 or lvl 2 gear from 16 and 17 mobs in CL for some reason. dont know if its as intended but wasting time on lvl's 1 thru 9 with gear when most can mow through that tier 1 in a half hour on the newbie island or thru grinding it seems overkill to put that low level stuff in the common lands. i dont know where im going with this so i will end now.

Lortet
10-09-2007, 09:46 PM
<p>This would potentially adversely affect the soloers - as the predominance of masters come from named heroics - which soloers often are restricted to taking on once they are 5 - 10 levels above that mob. As the masters dropped are of the tier of the mob - soloers will often need to sell their drops to buy appropriate level ones for themselves.</p><p>The current system works ok.</p>

Ogrebe
10-09-2007, 10:47 PM
<cite>Allurana wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Think about it.  Master spells are not raid gear, they aren't game breaking, they RARE RARE RARE.  This would be a VERY nice change for me and I am sure quite a few other people</p></blockquote>Well.... that statement kind of wrong. Master spells are of the same tier as raid gear. So essentially you could say they are raid gear.

dhvyse000
10-09-2007, 11:52 PM
I think the chance should be slightly greater for the classes in the group's master to drop, but still have the regular random master drops as well.

Giral
10-10-2007, 12:51 AM
<p> I get alot of master drops for my toons, my 2 mains Sk and Inquisy 60 % of there masters i have gotten from drops and only have purchased maybe 2 or 3 for my sk and 1 or 2 for my inquis also friends and guildies have given me masters , and i also give masters to friends and guildeis who need them </p><p>my lower characters guard,wizzy,troub,illusionist all have lvl 55+ masters i have been saving , and the guard lvl 48 has gotten quite a few masters from just grouping </p><p>so IMO , random master drops ingame currently equals = a random chance to get a master you need, also a chance at a master a friend or guildy could use , and if not you can sell the master to make coin</p><p>Or </p><p>Master drops for your class that you do not have every time = a Force of one, every time you go farm you get a new master , and within a coupe of weeks your toon is fully mastered , Plus no reason to trade with friends or guildies , or sell the masters on the brokers for others that do not have the time to farm </p><p>I'll stick with the current system myself</p>

EDofEDs
10-10-2007, 01:04 AM
The problem with only dropping masters for those classes in teh group is that the FotM classes would saturate the market with cheap masters.  If your a new player and you start a, i dunno, enchanter or something that is not a popular class at all and you hit hte broker for the first time and see TONS of necro/conj masters for cheap and the few enchanter ones are like 50p each, what does that make you wanna do?  Do you wanna keep playing the class that is gonna cost you a fortune to get masters for or are you just gonna reroll to a necro and get in on the saturated market for cheap spell upgrades.You also get the side effect that when the market is saturated with masters for the popular classes, the crafters aren't gonna have much in teh way of sales for spells of those classes.  And with those classes beaing so cheap to upgrade more and more people will be playing them, and thus more and more of hte market will NOT be buying crafted spells.In the short run it seems like a good idea but i could see it destroying crafting and class distribution in the long run.

DwarvesR
10-10-2007, 06:20 AM
<cite>netglen wrote:</cite><blockquote>But if you look at it a different way, doesn't making these L.50+ Master so rare just drive the plat buying business? Since I started teaming and raiding from L.50-L.69, I've seen zero Master books drops for my character and 4 Master books for other classes which I didn't win or the team agreed to NBG. I would probably need a few hundred plat just to buy up my important Master spell books. So <span style="color: #ff0000;">I'm stuck using Adept-IIIs for everything</span> because the prices for the brokered books are way too high IMHO. </blockquote><p>Say what?  You do realize that Adept 3's are excellent, right?</p><p>/sigh.  I kinda miss the old days when having everything at Adept 1 was something to brag about, having 3 or 4 adept 3's was downright amazing and having a Master was a HOLY SCHNIKES!!!!!! thing that you advertised in your bio.</p><p>I can play and succeed with App4's and Ad1's too.  The difference between the spell tiers isn't *that* big, after all.  So the attitude of being "stuck" with "only" Adept 3's is a bit mind boggling to me.</p><p>And also. . . with RoK coming out soon, only the level 67+ masters really matter anymore anyway.  The others will all be replaced with the level cap increase.</p>

Kenazeer
10-10-2007, 09:55 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>And also. . . with RoK coming out soon, only the level 67+ masters really matter anymore anyway.  The others will all be replaced with the level cap increase.</p></blockquote>Unless plans have changed I beleive all the normal spells are being upgraded in RoK. Thank goodness for the poor healers too.

Ama
10-10-2007, 10:51 AM
<cite>interstellarmatter wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>A large time spent by players reaching max level is trying to get all the top tier masters for their class.  If you made it more common for the people in the group, it would probably destroy 80% of their playtime.  Plus, it does drive an economy.  You get a master not for you so you put it up on the broker. You make money, you try to buy a master for your class.</p><p>We're not trying to isolate people here where they don't have to buy/sell on the broker.</p></blockquote><p>However there are problems where some spells are hard to obtain.  I have seen maybe 1 hurricane master on broker which was going for 200plat.  On the other hand I saw illusory allies going for 1plat which is kinda dumb.  </p><p>What probably needs to happen is rare spells need to be made zone lootable like class armor.  This way the rarity is still there and it keeps the price low on those spells making them affordable. </p>

interstellarmatter
10-10-2007, 11:22 AM
<cite>Amana wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>interstellarmatter wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>A large time spent by players reaching max level is trying to get all the top tier masters for their class.  If you made it more common for the people in the group, it would probably destroy 80% of their playtime.  Plus, it does drive an economy.  You get a master not for you so you put it up on the broker. You make money, you try to buy a master for your class.</p><p>We're not trying to isolate people here where they don't have to buy/sell on the broker.</p></blockquote><p>However there are problems where some spells are hard to obtain.  I have seen maybe 1 hurricane master on broker which was going for 200plat.  On the other hand I saw illusory allies going for 1plat which is kinda dumb.  </p><p>What probably needs to happen is rare spells need to be made zone lootable like class armor.  This way the rarity is still there and it keeps the price low on those spells making them affordable. </p></blockquote><p>Now, I didn't say that drop rates of certain master didn't need adjusted.  It does get old seeing the same old masters for 80g on the broker because they drop 50 million times.</p><p>I'm talking masters dropping based on the makeup of your group.  You'd be able to run instances everynight for a short period of time before you were fully mastered.  Fully mastered = fully equiped = bored player.  Seen it many times.  Part of the challenge of fully developing your character is working hard to obtain all masters.</p>

The_Real_Ohno
10-10-2007, 11:40 AM
<p>To the OP... NO!</p><p>As others have said, gettin the same old master 20 times b4 gettin 1 good one does suck.  Do somethin about that, but pls do not make masters drop like EoF set gear does.</p>

Moongloom
10-10-2007, 11:41 AM
<p>I agree that this drives the market.  You need to be able to loot a variety of items.  But, I also think that they could make it to where the end boss of a Raid zone that if that boss was going to drop a Master...then why not one that is of a class in group.  </p><p>Leave the rest of the system in place where you get a (somewhat, since there are some spells that you never hardly seem to see) random Master from chests in all other areas.  Just the big boss at the end of a raid zone.  The rest of that raid zone should give you some other items to trade with but at least at the end you have a chance to get something you yourself need.</p>

Tae
10-10-2007, 11:48 AM
<cite>interstellarmatter wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> You get a master not for you so you put it up on the broker. You make money, you try to buy a master for your class.</p></blockquote>Or, more likely, you get a master nobody in your faction can use, so you transcribe it and get something terrible. Every guardian has all their masters, every berserker has most of theirs, meanwhile other classes are struggling to get their masters. My berserker has all but two skills at Master I. Most of those skills cost about 3 plat on the broker. My brigand has maybe six master Is, any that appear on the broker cost about 20 plat. Plus some masters are worth more than others. If we transfer a ranger master I over to the Q side it's almost a guarenteed 40 plat. If we get a guardian master we might as well transmute it. Honestly with the way masters work right now it's too easy for some classes and almost impossible for others.

interstellarmatter
10-10-2007, 11:59 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>interstellarmatter wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> You get a master not for you so you put it up on the broker. You make money, you try to buy a master for your class.</p></blockquote>Honestly with the way masters work right now it's too easy for some classes and almost impossible for others.</blockquote>^^ see my post about 5 up.  I clarified it a little bit better.

Norrsken
10-10-2007, 12:01 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>interstellarmatter wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> You get a master not for you so you put it up on the broker. You make money, you try to buy a master for your class.</p></blockquote>Or, more likely, you get a master nobody in your faction can use, so you transcribe it and get something terrible. Every guardian has all their masters, every berserker has most of theirs, meanwhile other classes are struggling to get their masters. My berserker has all but two skills at Master I. Most of those skills cost about 3 plat on the broker. My brigand has maybe six master Is, any that appear on the broker cost about 20 plat. Plus some masters are worth more than others. If we transfer a ranger master I over to the Q side it's almost a guarenteed 40 plat. If we get a guardian master we might as well transmute it. Honestly with the way masters work right now it's too easy for some classes and almost impossible for others.</blockquote>thats because the transcriber makes the neutral classes masters 2 times as regular as every other master (thats only counting one side, its worse if you do both sides since its twice as common on both sides). Transcribing shouldnt give the neutral classes masters...

KBern
10-10-2007, 12:03 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>interstellarmatter wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> You get a master not for you so you put it up on the broker. You make money, you try to buy a master for your class.</p></blockquote>Or, more likely, you get a master nobody in your faction can use, so you transcribe it and get something terrible.Every guardian has all their masters, every berserker has most of theirs, meanwhile other classes are struggling to get their masters.My berserker has all but two skills at Master I. Most of those skills cost about 3 plat on the broker. My brigand has maybe six master Is, any that appear on the broker cost about 20 plat.Plus some masters are worth more than others. If we transfer a ranger master I over to the Q side it's almost a guarenteed 40 plat. If we get a guardian master we might as well transmute it.Honestly with the way masters work right now it's too easy for some classes and almost impossible for others.</blockquote><p>Well PvP servers have their own issues that are unrelated to the PvE servers.</p><p>They can make any changes they feel like on the PvP if they want.  </p><p>The main issue that would be feasible to address would be the range of drops.  It is obvious the range is not equally distributed.  I am not sure why there is not an equal chance to get a level appropriate master of any type from master chests when they drop.  It would seem to be an easy fix but for some reason certain masters are almost non existant while others drop like rain, regardless of class.</p>

Nocifer Deathblade
10-10-2007, 12:09 PM
<cite>Allurana wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Today I had something happen in game I have NEVER had happen in my almost 3 solid years of playing this game.</p><p>I actually looted a master spell that one of my characters present in the group could actually use.</p><p>I have been 2 boxing this game almost from day 1.  I have been 3 boxing for almost a year now.  I play by myself a lot of the time so I get all the loot.  I farm Nest and Acadechism on a regular basis to get items to transmute.  I can kill a LOT of the heroic content in this game with my 3 characters and do.</p><p>Today was the first time I got a master spell I could actually use on one of my 3 characters.</p><p>How is this for an idea for future development - make it so when a Exquisite Chest is going to appear and a master spell is going to be in that chest - make it be one for the classes present for the kill just like you do for EOF legendary armor now?</p><p>Think about it.  Master spells are not raid gear, they aren't game breaking, they RARE RARE RARE.  This would be a VERY nice change for me and I am sure quite a few other people.</p><p>The only people I could see this hurting is farmers that go after masters to sell.  I guess the brokers would fill up with wizard and bruiser masters - haha.</p><p>Just an idea, I am sure I will be flamed into oblivion in .....3....2.....1.......</p></blockquote>I wouldn't want that. ALL masters are tradeable and it promotes economy trading.  EOF armor is different because most of them are no-drop that [Removed for Content] groups off when they dropped that no one in group can use so it ended up being transmuted or sold to vendor or to diety. The changes made sense for armor but masters should be left alone cuz all of them are tradeable.

Youngone31
10-10-2007, 12:35 PM
It would be nice if monsters dropped masters that were needed. Finding a 60+ fury heal on the broker, I have yet so see one.

The_Real_Ohno
10-10-2007, 12:57 PM
Come to Everfrost....

interstellarmatter
10-10-2007, 01:00 PM
<cite>Youngone31 wrote:</cite><blockquote>It would be nice if monsters dropped masters that were needed. Finding a 60+ fury heal on the broker, I have yet so see one. </blockquote><p>They do drop but you will rarely find a popular fury, necro, ranger, etc spell on the broker.  Most of the time, those go into guild banks.  They are the most populated class hence there is always someone in the guild who needs them.</p><p>When you play a popular class, it's part of the price that you pay.  Hard to find masters. </p>

TuinalOfTheNexus
10-11-2007, 06:57 AM
<p>The problem as I see it is this.</p><p>I'm a decked out raid tank. But I do like to group and do instances. You probably want me in your group - I pull fast, and have high DPS and survivability since I'm fully fabled and mastered.</p><p>However, when we introduce game mechanics that either make loot no-trade, or ensure things only people can use will drop, there is absolutely zero reason for me to join your group. I will basically be contributing more DPS than less well geared players, and frankly contributing more to the group in general, but I will be getting zero reward because I "need" none of the loot.</p><p>Even with the current system, there's no reason for me to help your group needing SoD updates in CMM (besides pure altruism), because loot dropping is in the vast majority either lore, or no-trade. So even if a tank item drops that nobody needs, I'm looking at a 1/6 roll, and that's in the extremely unlikely even I don't have the lore item already.</p><p>So, then, it's no coincidence it's hard to find a decent tank for CMM/Niz etc., because if you're decent chances are you have the drops already and stand to gain nothing from it. If I want to earn cash, joining a group is the absolute worst thing I can do. This is poor game design, and suggesting master drops should change to reduce the already tiny incentive to group to zero is ridiculous.</p>

Kika
10-11-2007, 11:24 AM
I think the system is fine as is honestly.  Granted, I have played since the week after launch and just got my first master spell, that I as a Wizard could use, drop last night.  And it was a good spell!  THough it will be getting replaced I figure by the expansion.Now why cant Ice nova drop?

UlteriorModem
10-11-2007, 11:28 AM
<cite>Kikaro wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think the system is fine as is honestly.  Granted, I have played since the week after launch and just got my first master spell, that I as a Wizard could use, drop last night.  And it was a good spell!  THough it will be getting replaced I figure by the expansion.Now why cant Ice nova drop?</blockquote><p>Hrm... I wonder if they havent actually increased the drops after all.</p><p>Ive been playing for more or less since launch and got my first master drop too. It was a necro spell so I couldent use it but... still first one Ive ever seen.</p>

Sir Longsword
10-11-2007, 12:17 PM
All loot in the game should be tradeable, IMO.  As a previous poster stated, why go into zones that will benefit you in no way.  Let the free market work it's magic.