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View Full Version : Does your class have MAD? One of my alts does!


Eriol
10-05-2007, 04:15 PM
MAD.  It's something that really really hurts.  Makes your gear really tough to choose, and no matter WHAT you choose you don't really feel as powerful as the "other guy" in your group, even if you're better geared (more fabled, etc).  And it affects one class the most, though a number of them are also in quite bad shape.What is <b>MAD</b>?  Quite simple: <b>M</b>ultiple <b>A</b>ttribute <b>D</b>isorder.  It comes from needing every stat in the book to be effective, and it afflicts every Paladin out there.  They have need of every single core stat for something that they do.  For example:Strength: 75% of power pool (for pallies), and damage.  Essential for both DPSing (ha!) and keeping agro through DPS when tankingAgility: Avoidance.  Critical for tanking, and good for soloing.Stamina: Health.  Obviously critical when tanking.Wisdom: 25% of power pool (for pallies) and resists.  The resists is not much, but versus other fighters, the requirement for wisdom can hurt.Intelligence: Spell damage.  The more INT, the more damage you do, and the more easily you can keep agro.Basically, Paladins need every stat.Now this is in contrast to the mages, which can basically concentrate ALL of their stats into INT, or int/sta for a little more survivability.  Priests have a bit of a problem, in that WIS is their power pool stat, but INT is the stat for spell damage, though since most high-end gear with WIS also has INT on it, it's not a MASSIVE problem.  Scouts needing agility for power and STR for damage, but usually melee gear is STR/STA/AGI, so that's not so bad.Now the other tanks kind of have it nearly as bad as Paladins, but not quite.  The trio of melee stats (STR/STA/AGI) are there for warriors and brawlers, though ALL of their strength goes into their power pool.  They basically have no use of WIS or INT at all (the resist boost from wisdom is the LAST thing one goes after).  And then there's Shadowknights, which until relatively recently had the exact same problems as Paladins... then they switched their 25% power to INT instead of WIS, so they could easily ditch WIS, same as the rest of the fighters.  They also have an entire line of armour that works great for them from tradeskillers (devout), so they were doing better.  Not GREAT, as they still need 4 stats, but not quite as bad.  Leaving Paladins out in the cold with MAD.To put it down, here's how many stats that a class generally NEEDS to perform their typical roles:Paladins: All 5Shadowknights: 4 (STR/STA/AGI/INT)Warriors/Brawlers: 3 (STR/STA/AGI)Scouts: 2 (STR/AGI)Priests: 1.5 (WIS/INT) (INT is the 0.5, as not CRITICAL, but if you have low it's noticeable)Mages: 1 (INT)Any class there can throw in some additional STA and put it to decent use, but unless listed, they're not peaking it first or anything.  But as you go further up that chain, classes have more and more symptoms of MAD, ie: low top stat numbers, gear that needs to be deliberately INconsistent to get a variety of stats, complete alternate sets of gear for vastly alternate roles (peaking your damage stats, sacrificing AGI/STA), etc.This needs to be addressed.  At the least I'd say switch pallies away from WIS as well (EQ1 reasons for WIS/INT don't matter in the LEAST IMO), as that would help somewhat, but I'd suggest just moving both their power pools AND damage for both SKs and Pallies to strength.  Spells fueled COMPLETELY by strength.  Change nothing else about the classes, but just dump it all there and it will REALLY help the situation.

netglen
10-05-2007, 04:31 PM
(O_o);;;    Have a good weekend is all I can say.

interstellarmatter
10-05-2007, 04:43 PM
<p>Don't get mad..get Glad.</p><p>Sorry couldn't resist.</p><p>The stat question..goes with the territory.  Also makes you class very versatile.  Just carry extra sets of gear depending on your situation.  My Inquisitor carries three sets of gear.  One for soloing that is high on the +int side.  The other for grouping with a mix of wis/int.  Then a third for raiding which is very high on the +wis side.</p><p>I do the same with my SK.</p>

Sapphirius
10-05-2007, 05:00 PM
<nods> The bane of a hybrid class is that all the stats pretty much help them. When you tailor your playstyle towards one specific area, then you tailor your gear for the stats you'll need in that area. My girls run around with their first two inventory bags full of gear (huge collector's pouch & gnome tinkerer HQ bag). This gear focuses on different stats, effects, and resists. I change it out when I know I'm going to be filling a particular role for a upcoming situation. It's not that you must have all your stats up at the same time so much as it is that you must choose which stats to focus on over others.

Windowlicker
10-05-2007, 05:06 PM
I hate to say it, the "I win" button for Mage is not high Int alone.  This game is already on easy-mode enough without nerfing characters to the point where only one stat matters.

Cathars
10-05-2007, 06:05 PM
Everyone needs sta and wis.  Scouts need int for poison.  It doesn't "need to be addressed", you need to not make assertions that are just outright false.

Rainmare
10-05-2007, 06:39 PM
<cite>Catharsis wrote:</cite><blockquote>Everyone needs sta and wis.  Scouts need int for poison.  It doesn't "need to be addressed", you need to not make assertions that are just outright false.</blockquote>it's not exactly false. a scout doesn't NEED int to do thier primary role, DPS. it's a bonus, but not required. you also don't need sta or wis nearly as much as you do agi/str. honestly, you shouldn't be getting hit, and unless the mob has AEs, you shouldn't be getting nuked either. which is what sta/wis is slotted to handle.a wizard doesn't need anything other than int to fill thier DPS role.the other tanks NEED Str/Sta/Agi to do thier primary role, Tanking. thier strength is thier powerpool, thier sta is the HP/ agi is your avoidance, which helps your survivability. for Zerkers and Gaurds, STR works not only for power but also all thier DPS. they don't use any spells.Shadowknights need Str/Sta/Agi/Int. because they need Int and str for thier powerpool, then Sta and Agi for the reasons above. due to the change, SKs can ditch wisdom like the others, adn the INT works not only for power, but DPS spell damage.Paladins need all five. they need str/sta/agi for previous reasons, but the also need wis for power. and, they need int for spell damage.

Finora
10-05-2007, 06:46 PM
<p>Eh, it's not that big of a deal, unless you are dead set on having only 1 single set of gear per tier.</p><p>Any melee priest needs wis/int/str/sta/agi as well (if they solo). If they don't solo they can not concentrate too much on agility but the rest of the stats are important. That's life with the choices you make in game and part of what makes players different, even among classes.</p>

Mighty Melvor
10-05-2007, 06:47 PM
<cite>Eriol wrote:</cite><blockquote>To put it down, here's how many stats that a class generally NEEDS to perform their typical roles:Paladins: All 5Shadowknights: 4 (STR/STA/AGI/INT)Warriors/Brawlers: 3 (STR/STA/AGI)Scouts: 2 (STR/AGI)Priests: 1.5 (WIS/INT) (INT is the 0.5, as not CRITICAL, but if you have low it's noticeable)Mages: 1 (INT)</blockquote><p>/LOL <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /><img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /><img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

Oldlore
10-05-2007, 06:49 PM
Gear-wise melee classes, especially tanks, are the most intensive/difficult.  Mages are the easiest, since the only "stat" they need is INT and it's so easy to get it high when you take into account buffs and such.  Resists are easily maxed situationally and most important for melee classes anyway since they're most likely to be hit by AoEs and such (altho jousting can work some times).The "extras", which can be fairly important, apply equally to all classes imo.  They are things like procs, BOE, +CA dmg, haste/dps mods, +parry/def/defl, +c/s/p. +disr/subj/mini.If anything, I think they ought to make stats more useful.  Right now wisdom is garbage unless you need it for power.  The extra spell resist is weak, especially after they put in diminishing returns.  AGI gives very little actual defensive bonus and the bonus it does give is reduced by level, arrows, and x2-4 raid mobs.  STR/INT work  well and STA is okay.

steelbadger
10-05-2007, 07:32 PM
<cite>Rainy wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Catharsis wrote:</cite><blockquote>Everyone needs sta and wis.  Scouts need int for poison.  It doesn't "need to be addressed", you need to not make assertions that are just outright false.</blockquote>it's not exactly false. a scout doesn't NEED int to do thier primary role, DPS. it's a bonus, but not required. you also don't need sta or wis nearly as much as you do agi/str. honestly, you shouldn't be getting hit, and unless the mob has AEs, you shouldn't be getting nuked either. which is what sta/wis is slotted to handle.a wizard doesn't need anything other than int to fill thier DPS role.the other tanks NEED Str/Sta/Agi to do thier primary role, Tanking. thier strength is thier powerpool, thier sta is the HP/ agi is your avoidance, which helps your survivability. for Zerkers and Gaurds, STR works not only for power but also all thier DPS. they don't use any spells.Shadowknights need Str/Sta/Agi/Int. because they need Int and str for thier powerpool, then Sta and Agi for the reasons above. due to the change, SKs can ditch wisdom like the others, adn the INT works not only for power, but DPS spell damage.Paladins need all five. they need str/sta/agi for previous reasons, but the also need wis for power. and, they need int for spell damage. </blockquote>Are you suggesting that where you to lose some STA you would, quite suddenly, not be able to tank ANYTHING?  No?  Then you don't NEED any one of your stats more than an assassin needs theirs.  As an assassin I'd say that a scout DOES NEED INT to perform their primary function (dps); poison and procs are a large portion of our dps and an assassins sans INT is not going to rock the parse in any raid.  You as a tank consider tanking attributes to be as important as I (a scout player) consider my dps attributes.  You lose some attributes you begin to have trouble tanking, or keeping aggro.  For you that is a failure of tank.  For me losing dps anywhere where it could feasably be gained is a failure in DPS.  A scout DOES need INT, STR, STA, WIS and AGI.  Without those stats you will either suck at dpsing or will die a lot (thus sucking at dpsing).Paladins just happen to find their sweet spot (for maximum efficiency) when their stats are roughly equal.  And that is the price of being a jack of all trades, you can focus on one aspect but you cannot focus on them all without losing capability.  Thats how a jack of all trades is balanced.

Gareorn
10-05-2007, 08:19 PM
<cite>Rainy wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Catharsis wrote:</cite><blockquote>Everyone needs sta and wis.  Scouts need int for poison.  It doesn't "need to be addressed", you need to not make assertions that are just outright false.</blockquote>it's not exactly false. a scout doesn't NEED int to do thier primary role, DPS. <b>it's a bonus</b>, but not required. </blockquote>Where do people come up with this stuff?  The use of poisons are required by the rogues and predators to maintain respectable DPS, and int directly affects the amount of damage done by poisons.  Additionally int directly affects the bards' power pool and the effectiveness of their damage spells.  I'd hardly call int "a bonus" to a scout's DPS.

Guy De Alsace
10-05-2007, 09:23 PM
<p>I used to wear whatever looked the most awesome on me. Now, with appearance slots I can wear my awesome looking gear and use last year's fashion for the actual gaming. SOE made me actually have to think about my gear now <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Its all a plot IMO....</p>

Sapphirius
10-05-2007, 09:31 PM
<p>It's OK, huns. I'm still trying to figure out why my inquisitor and two wardens and don't need stamina. I kind of like having enough health to survive AEs. For that matter, my inquisitor is melee specced. She needs strength as well. I'm also baffled as to why my monk wouldn't need wisdom or why my warlock suddenly only needs intelligence and not stamina or wisdom as well. She has to get up close and personal with those mobs for her point blank AEs. Having good resistances and a lot of health is more important to her than hitting the cap on intelligence.</p>

Novusod
10-05-2007, 10:25 PM
Be thankful you are not a bard. Troubadors especially need a lot of INT in addition to a healthy amount of STR/AGI/STA. Most of our items don't even have INT on them so it is really hard to be affective at addressing our MAD problems. I wish I could wear the Defiler gear instead of the Troubador set. At least a Paladin in Paladin gear is not [Removed for Content] and like a Troub in Troub gear is.

Ivellious
10-06-2007, 12:32 AM
<p>Should update your list:</p><p>Pallies= all 5, SK = str/sta/agi/int, Brawlers = str/sta/agi/wis(especially monk=wis), warriors = sta/str/agi, Preditors/Rogues/Bards = Str/int/agi/sta (int for poisons/bards), Clerics/shamen = Wis/int/sta (sta they do get hit sometimes.) Druids = Wis/int/str/sta (str if melee spec'd), Mages = INT/sta</p><p> As you see Pallies may need 5 but most classes need 4-5 except mages and warriors.</p>

Couching
10-06-2007, 01:47 AM
Well, wis is useless for any class except healers. The resist is broken and didn't make real difference in raid. It makes me sad since monk self buff is str and wis. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/c30b4198e0907b23b8246bdd52aa1c3c.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

Banshee505
10-06-2007, 07:04 AM
<p>Its always like that for hybrids. Specialise and ignore the other stats. Personally i would go big stamina strength with abit of intel.</p>

Mildavyn
10-06-2007, 07:25 AM
<p>STR = Melee DPSSTA = HitpointsAGI = AvoidanceWIS = ResistsINT = Spell damage.</p><p>Now we all know that, and certain classes get power from certain stats. Now hitpoints, melee avoidance and resists are something that EVERYONE needs, so that's three stats that every class needs. That leaves INT and STR. INT is important for any class that has any spells or procs. So all those warriors who have procs on their weapons or gear, they want INT for that. Anyone who can cast a damage spell, they want INT. So everyone gets something out of STA, AGI, INT and WIS. That leaves STR. Anyone who uses melee combat will want STR. So that's everyone who isnt a mage.</p><p>So really, you're complaining about something that almost every class has to deal with. Hell, some mages will even run up and use their auto-attack while they're casting spells. So all classes need all stats. The only question s which stats to focus on. For some classes it's easy. For others, it's not.</p>

Hollywood
10-06-2007, 09:58 AM
<cite>Rainy wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>it's not exactly false. a scout doesn't NEED int to do thier primary role, DPS. it's a bonus, but not required. </blockquote>Ahhh, so that's what I have been doing wrong, needlessly putting points into INT when there was no need... thanks for the tip!  I'm sure I will be a much better bard now that I know!!!

Eriol
10-06-2007, 10:56 AM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Now hitpoints, melee avoidance and resists are something that EVERYONE needs, so that's three stats that every class needs.</p></blockquote>So you make sure that all of the gear on your mage has some AGI on it, since it's important for "Everyone" right? ... Somehow I don't think your answer is "yes."  This is a situation where some classes are literally gimped no matter WHAT their stat makeup is, and others have very very easy gear choices.As for those that mentioned poisons, and those who mentioned bards, sorry for forgetting about those.  You are right of course.

Sapphirius
10-06-2007, 12:54 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>STR = Melee DPSSTA = HitpointsAGI = AvoidanceWIS = ResistsINT = Spell damage.</p><p>Now we all know that, and certain classes get power from certain stats. Now hitpoints, melee avoidance and resists are something that EVERYONE needs, so that's three stats that every class needs. That leaves INT and STR. INT is important for any class that has any spells or procs. So all those warriors who have procs on their weapons or gear, they want INT for that. Anyone who can cast a damage spell, they want INT. So everyone gets something out of STA, AGI, INT and WIS. That leaves STR. Anyone who uses melee combat will want STR. So that's everyone who isnt a mage.</p><p>So really, you're complaining about something that almost every class has to deal with. Hell, some mages will even run up and use their auto-attack while they're casting spells. So all classes need all stats. The only question s which stats to focus on. For some classes it's easy. For others, it's not.</p></blockquote><p>Have you ever tried running around as a mage with a full inventory in a dungeon and no str? We need it too just to be able to carry our stuffs.</p><p>Eriol, I think you're missing the point. The point is that every class suffers from MAD in some way shape or form. Hybrid classes (crusaders and brawlers) seem to suffer most from MAD because their roles are not clearly defined. They could be nearly anything that is needed in a group. They are a jack of all trades and master of none. <i>This isn't unique to paladins</i>. The way to deal with MAD is to <i>choose</i> what your goal is and to dress and spec according to your <i>choice</i>.</p><p>Second, I'm looking at those stats, and saying that a mage only needs int is assuming that all mages do is raid and that they never group or solo or that all mages fight the same way... which they <i>don't</i>. In fact, that isn't even assuming that all a mage does is raid because raiding mages will also tell you that they need more than just int.</p><p>Sitting there and telling my warlock that the only stat she needs is int is a fallacy and likely to get you rooted, nuked, and vomited in a duel. (She likes to make things puke.) She needs her wis and her sta to survive AEs since she has to get up close and personal with the mobs. She DPSes with point blank AEs. This means she has to be right up on the mobs to hurt them. Every tank in her range knows her and starts cringing the minute they see her flutter up to a group because they know they're going to need every taunt and group taunt they've got to keep me from wearing the encounter. She does start off slow and build up to the big nukes, but keeping aggro on a grouped encounter is difficult. Keeping aggro on multiple encounters through AEs is flat out hard no matter what fighter class you're playing.</p><p>She needs her agi for this too and, heck, some str so she can actually carry something without being overburdened. Can I focus on all these stats at once and still have an insanely high int? No I cannot. Because I know I can't do this,<i> I <b>chose</b> to make a sacrifice</i> towards my int by wearing crafted cloth armor that has a balance of wis/int/sta. As I find more cloth (dropped or otherwise) with better sta, I swap out my gear. Sta is the stat I'm focusing heavy on. My weapon always has str on it. This is so I can carry stuff. My jewelry is where I try to go sta/int/agi. I don't wear crafted jewelry, but again, I focus more on the sta than anything else. I focus on int too, but sta comes first.</p><p>That's just my warlock. </p><p>Now we get to my druids (two of whom are in raiding fabled). I'll just focus on my wardens (one pvp and one non-pvp) and not my fury as she's still a baby. You honestly and seriously think that all my warden needs is wis and int? Have you ever heard of healer aggro? Heck, if I could get a detaunt item that had a percent chance to proc on heals, I'd be all over it and then some. My druids <i>need</i> their sta, or they're laying face down on the floor. Saying my warden doesn't need her sta is like someone who told me last night that group heals weren't important and only situational. That person didn't realize how often an entire group or multiple people in a group can take damage, nor did they realize the benefit of stacking group heals on top of single ones.</p><p>What's more is that my pvp warden is melee specced. She <i>needs</i> str for this spec plus agi for a pvp server. She balanced all 5 of her stats as best she could... which meant that she made sacrafices to her wis and int, and it always surprised people when they thought they had an easy stiffle/stun & gank scenario, and she avoided the blow, turned around, and smacked them in the face... and it hurt! Unfortunately, her pvp spec didn't make her the best healer out there. She would respec for weeks she planned to only raid and then run around only in groups until she got the urge to solo or pvp again. Yes, all that respeccing got incredibly expensive.</p><p>Then you take into account my inquisitor! Oh my, she's just a whole other ball of wax, but much of it is similar to my pvp warden. Anyhow, enough with my in-game examples and on to my point.</p><p>The part people are taking issue with is that you are telling players (some of who are extremely knowledgeable about their class), "You need these stats and <i>only</i> these stats," without any regards to subclass abilities, playstyles, or specs. You are making a broad generalized statement on needed stats for each archetype that are, quite honestly, flat out wrong.</p><p>A paladin is a jack of all trades. They can tank, dps, or heal (though not the most proficient healers in the game). If you choose to do all three, then you are going to be "gimped" on all three. You must then choose <i>one</i> role to fill and focus on that role. I know some truly great paladin tanks out there, and I know some awesome paladin DPSers out there. They both made choices to dress and spec for those roles, sacrificing the other stats and roles in order to do this.</p><p>This is what you must do. Decide what you want to do on your paladin, and focus your stats, armor, and spec to accomplish this.</p><p>EDIT: Typing pwns me. Oh, and spelling apparently pwns me too.</p>

Hikinami
10-06-2007, 01:20 PM
Hybrid allows for choices. Its not a super ultimate master of everything.Pick something and work on being the best you can be at it, also I havnt had one character that doesnt have to pay attention to at least 3 or 4 stats.

Gladiia
10-06-2007, 05:14 PM
<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>STR = Melee DPSSTA = HitpointsAGI = AvoidanceWIS = ResistsINT = Spell damage.</p><p>Now we all know that, and certain classes get power from certain stats. Now hitpoints, melee avoidance and resists are something that EVERYONE needs, so that's three stats that every class needs. That leaves INT and STR. INT is important for any class that has any spells or procs. So all those warriors who have procs on their weapons or gear, they want INT for that. Anyone who can cast a damage spell, they want INT. So everyone gets something out of STA, AGI, INT and WIS. That leaves STR. Anyone who uses melee combat will want STR. So that's everyone who isnt a mage.</p><p>So really, you're complaining about something that almost every class has to deal with. Hell, some mages will even run up and use their auto-attack while they're casting spells. So all classes need all stats. The only question s which stats to focus on. For some classes it's easy. For others, it's not.</p></blockquote>Well said.

AllaK_Bludwyng
10-06-2007, 05:31 PM
<cite>Eriol wrote:</cite><blockquote>[snip]This needs to be addressed.  At the least I'd say switch pallies away from WIS as well (EQ1 reasons for WIS/INT don't matter in the LEAST IMO), as that would help somewhat, but I'd suggest just moving both their power pools AND damage for both SKs and Pallies to strength.  Spells fueled COMPLETELY by strength.  Change nothing else about the classes, but just dump it all there and it will REALLY help the situation.</blockquote>There is a VERY good reason SK's are INT and Pal's are WIS. It is the core of what they are.A Paladin is a Warrior/Priest(Templar)A SK is a Warrior/Mage(Necromancer)This is why SK's have no real heals. If ALL crusaders were Warrior/Priest, then SKs would have heals instead of taps, and they would need WIS, not INT.

Giral
10-07-2007, 12:06 AM
<p>Betray to an SK if you think the grass is greener with 4 stats /MWahhahahahaaaa</p><p>lets see </p><p>pally 3rd in line as Raid MT  </p><p>Amends best Tank agro skill in the game </p><p>heals,rezz</p><p>if set up to dps can do near equal dps to an SK </p><p>i have seen paladins solo herioc Named mobs </p><p>what more do you want ?  </p><p>Paladin class forums are that way ------------------> plenty of info there on how to set up and max your toon for your playstyle without SOE having to rework how paladins use stats </p><p>  </p>

Gnevil
10-07-2007, 01:52 AM
<p>Posts like this just dishearten me...</p><p>First to the op.. you chose to play a hybrid class, as has been stated jack of all trades, master of none.  You are an exceptional class and therefore depending on the situation you find yourself in, you need to carry the gear in your bags (boxes) that will better equip you to deal with your chosen role.  And to say all other classes require only one or two stats is false.  To some extent all stats matter to all toons it effects how we play no matter what.</p><p>This request for concentration down to one stat totally defeats the purpose of your class, we are then back to what has been posted before so many times, One toon that does it all why have separate classes?  Can you imagine the outrage by the tanking community if you were granted your request?  What a mess...</p><p>Did you not play EQ1 where everyone carried around bags of armor and arms and jewelery and changing it out before every fight was the norm?  Heck I do that with most of my toons now, although not to the extremes that EQ1 required I still manage to carry at least a bag or two on every toon I have to help him better perform in a given situation.</p><p>The game is easy enough please don't request even more easy mode on the boards heaven forbid that the devs get this in their heads and implement it...</p><p>Sorry you are so over burdened with your class requirements, if it's to much for you simply roll another tank or a healer or a dps class.  It looks as though you are unhappy as your role as the guy that can save the day in a raid, a group or even soloing.  </p>

Gnevil
10-07-2007, 01:52 AM
<p>double post doh!</p>

Margen
10-07-2007, 12:09 PM
<p>While the OP is overstating the issue, the two crusader classes (HATE the word Hybrid, points at someone that does a bit of a lot of things but nothing well, but thats another issue) have the most requirements of balancing the stats. </p><p>Mages, yes they can't just concentrate on INT, but they really don't put alot of effort in to stats like wisdom.  They won't in group or raid be in range of most AOE's so when you look at mages stats they usually are weak in wisdom and Agi.</p><p>Scouts yes they want some int, but they usually aren't that high in it (excluding bards).</p><p>Fighters (excluding crusaders) usually concentrate on STR/AGI/STA, they don't mind wisdom, but since its a weak stat for non healing classes, they only kind of go oh it also has wisdom, thats nice. As for Int it basiclly does nothing for them.</p><p>Healers, usually concentrate on Wisdom and Int, they don't put much effort in the other stats.</p><p>As for crusaders, yeah we all understand thats part of the game, but it does make it a bit more hard to gear up.  Plus alot of the non-class specific tank gear is usually very weak in INT and Wisdom, plus we worry more about resist, mitigation and HPs then most of the other classes do.  </p><p>But the stat issue is kind of non issue, most of us understand that it comes with the job.  I am more intreasted in seeing crusaders being built for being the best at SOMETHING, especially in raiding.  </p><p>Plus as a SK I want my ability to buff my own STR back dangit, they gave us the 89plus to spell damage for the raid, but took away our ability to buff our own str.  Which effects our mellee damage, which is a minor issue, and our power, which is a bigger issue.  Its not like us SK where screamed for in raids snicker.</p><p>I would like to see more drops that are crusader only with more rounded stats, plus still  have good mit and resist.  But that is unlikely, sony has always treated the crusader classes as a second thought.</p>