Buckler of the Howler

[BigChiefJJ]

<p>Does the Buckler of the Howler still proc from Ranged attacks or was that changed with GU 38?</p>

[Kaleyen]

<cite>Wodreaux@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Does the Buckler of the Howler still proc from Ranged attacks or was that changed with GU 38?</p></blockquote>Yes

[Malchore]

Yes it still procs from ranged.

[Gareorn]

AFAIK, all worn items still proc off melee and range. What no longer procs is weapons. Melee weapons won't proc off range and range weapons won't proc off melee. Boots, belts, bucklers, etc. still proc off all attacks.

[Keiry]

zerks need it more, stop outbidding us, your dps is already high, you can wait til the zerks get theirs. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[jarlaxle8]

<cite>Gareorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>AFAIK, all worn items still proc off melee and range. What no longer procs is weapons. Melee weapons won't proc off range and range weapons won't proc off melee. Boots, belts, bucklers, etc. still proc off all attacks.</blockquote><p>I think it depends on description. If it's on a weapon and just says 'On a successful attack', it's tied to the weapon.</p><p>If it says something like 'On a CA...' or 'On a spell', it's not tied to the weapen, it's triggered by the described effect. I'm a bit unsure though, perhaps someone who has Maestro's Flame can confirm.</p>

[Kaleyen]

What kind of feedback are you guys getting from the Warriors on the raid who want this item as well?To me, this is a DPS item, and therefore I have as much right (if not more because I play a DPS class) to roll/bid on this item.  However, from some responses I've seen from Warriors on these forums, I'm wondering if they'd make a fuss if one dropped and they didn't win it.  This item (to me) isn't an item that warrants it being used by a Warrior over a Ranger- Why?  Because if you're an MT/OT this isn't a "survivability" type of thing- go get a tower shield for that.No this hasn't come up with me at all or anything, but I have envisioned it coming up after GU38 went live.

[Obadiah]

I'll give you that Warrior feedback. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> I had to bid against a Ranger for mine. Cost me a ton. Fair game for both, certainly, but I'll wager when I'm not MT he's got far more buff-love than I do. If his DPS is normally 125+ while mine is mired down in the 75 range, it's not going to be worth as much to him. Plus it is a survivability issue inasmuch as it is a hate issue if the warrior in question is MT. Not a lot of fabled bucklers either, and upgrading from a legendary as I was is inherently more avoidance. But when you pull out your bow, you put your DW weapons away, right? Hence the change in mechanics to make the bow not proc off the melee weapons - you don't have them "out". You're not using them at that point. Just like your bow doesn't proc off the melee weapons. You also put your buckler away when you take out the bow. Just seems to logically follow that they'd make other items in the secondary slot stop proccing off ranged as well because you're using both hands on the bow. Not saying I want them too, just sayin it seems like something that may logically follow.

[littleman17]

<p>Honestly, I'd say this item should go to warriors using the buckler line first, then rangers. I say this because the whole "it is a dps item, I deserve it to" is the reason why many rangers have been cheated our of their sarnak bows.</p><p>Just because all the bow using classes CAN use it, doesn't mean they SHOULD bid on it. So let it go to who ever will be using it the most, which in this case would be the buckler line warrior or is most likely dps'ing.</p>

[jarlaxle8]

<p align="justify"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">I was lucky and got one. At the time our normal MT that is buckler specced wasn't around, so it went to me. But I probably would have let him have it if he'd been around, or the raid leader would have decided to let him have it, without looking at other wants. That's ok, as long as I get a bow when one finally drops...</span> </p><p align="justify"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">As for the argument of Obadiah about it shouldn't proc off ranged: why? I'm not exactly wielding my earring or other stuff when in combat and neither are you. But it still works. And, when you have a +10 dps adorn on your ranged item, it still works in mellee.</span></p>

[Kaleyen]

Well, here's my take on it - remember this thing hasn't dropped for any of the PU's I've attended since GU38, so it's purely a hypothetical situation.Warriors choose to go down the buckler line, they don't go down the buckler line for survivability they do it for DPS.Right now there are two items that go into a Ranger's primary/secondary that are worth a [Removed for Content], the Buckler of the Howler and Maestro's Flame.Buckler of the Howler is a DPS item, Warriors want it for DPS, Ranger's want it for DPS.  As we know DPS effects auto attack, who would get the most use out of a mod that effects auto attack, a Ranger or a Warrior- No brainer.  Now, some might chime in here saying that they have a legendary buckler thus this is a huge upgrade for them...but again, it's an AA path that they have chose to go down for DPS, not survivability thus when crap hits the fan you'll see the majority of MT's switch to a tower/kite shield to "survive" the encounter.  -Yes I have MT'd all KoS and EoF raid instances, I wouldn't post this kind of post without having experienced on both the MT side of things and the DPS side-Personally I have a DPS mod of 28 right now....10 DPS Adornment on my bow, 10 DPS Adornment on my neck and 8 from Tunare's Earring.  28 is no where near the soft cap.I would also pass on this item to the MT, but after GU38 I'm starting to have second thoughts on that decision.

[Gareorn]

I passed on this item once so it could go to the MT way back when EoF first came out. Our MT has yet to use this item on a raid. A couple weeks ago, it dropped again. Realizing this item was spec'd more for a scout in a raid scenario, I went ahead and bid on it. It cost me 8 times more in DKP than if I would have bid on it the first time it dropped because all the scouts want it too. I've had it equipped ever since. This is, without a doubt, one of the best items in the game for raiding scouts right now. I go no where without my buckler. I was even asked by someone why they always see Rangers equiped with sheilds. :~)

[Obadiah]

Gareorn, that totally blows. Kick that MT in the nuts. I doubt I'll put this thing down for months. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> As a Berserker, I didn't choose to go down the Buckler line. There's really not much choice. I also didn't go down that line just for DPS, I went down that line so I could tank. I swapped to my (fabled, adorned with extra block %) tower shield in EH last night to see the difference. I gain 0.7% avoidance according to the persona screen. The difference will be less once I get the BotH similarly adorned. And, more importantly, others have tested to demonstrate that since the buckler line's avoidance is uncontested, you actually GAIN avoidance using the buckler line against mobs of a higher level than yourself. Guardians may have a choice because of their Tower Shield-only ability and what not . . . so even if they are buckler specced they may swap . . . Berserkers don't have much choice. I'm not saying you should give it to the MT, and I didn't expect the Ranger in my raid to just up and give it to me. It's a boon for your raiding force no matter which it goes to.jarlaxle888 . . . Here's the difference. When you attack with your bow, your earring, ring, etc. all stay in the same place. But you physically put your weapons and shield away. Presumably this was some of the reasoning behind making the change . . . I'm not saying they SHOULD change it as I described . . . I'm just saying if that's the reason for changing it . . . you put your buckler away too when you take out your bow, so isn't it just as likely they'll change that? But hopefully it's a moot point. I think there would (rightfully) be considerable protest if they tried to do that. Just makes me nervous on your behalf. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[BigChiefJJ]

<cite>Kurgan@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>jarlaxle888 . . . Here's the difference. When you attack with your bow, your earring, ring, etc. all stay in the same place. But you physically put your weapons and shield away. Presumably this was some of the reasoning behind making the change . . . I'm not saying they SHOULD change it as I described . . . I'm just saying if that's the reason for changing it . . . you put your buckler away too when you take out your bow, so isn't it just as likely they'll change that? But hopefully it's a moot point. I think there would (rightfully) be considerable protest if they tried to do that. Just makes me nervous on your behalf. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote><p>If we are going to talk about putting a weapon/shield away is the reason you should not receive procs then I'd like to take a different approach to this.  Why do we get the benefit of the +Stats, power, health of items that are ‘put away' when we are not using them?  How is applying these stats different than applying a proc inherent to that weapon?   My sword is making me stronger while its in its sheath, the haste on it still applies to my overall haste, and any regeneration or flowing thought is still added to my in combat regen, the ranged weapon on my back/side is still giving me +10dps if it has that adornment on it.       </p><p>Going down this logic does make me nervous as you never know how the dev team will receive thoughts.  I guess what the thought goes to show is that there is no logical way to rationalize everything that happens </p>

[Gareorn]

<cite>Kurgan@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Gareorn, that totally blows. Kick that MT in the nuts. I doubt I'll put this thing down for months. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> </blockquote>LOL.  Naw, I wouldn't do that.  He's a good guy.  Besides who knew at the time the buckler line was going to get nerfed.

[TerriBlades]

<cite>Kurgan@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>jarlaxle888 . . . Here's the difference. When you attack with your bow, your earring, ring, etc. all stay in the same place. But you physically put your weapons and shield away. Presumably this was some of the reasoning behind making the change . . . I'm not saying they SHOULD change it as I described . . . I'm just saying if that's the reason for changing it . . . you put your buckler away too when you take out your bow, so isn't it just as likely they'll change that? But hopefully it's a moot point. I think there would (rightfully) be considerable protest if they tried to do that. Just makes me nervous on your behalf. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote><p>I see where you are coming from, but the minute they stop allowing BotH to proc when its not "in use", they had better make sure that no one recieves +10 DPS mod from the adornment on their bow when they are in melee combat. After all, fair is fair. We could even take it one step further. Forget about the stat bonus's when those items are not in use. Hmmm now all of a sudden it probably doesnt sound like a good idea at all, does it?</p><p>Fact is, with the exception of a few shield bash style attacks, no one is attacking with their shield. Since you want it to proc like a melee weapon, then I think the proc should only go off when you actually attack with your shield. Sure, they could make it on any melee attack, but like I already mentioned... do that, and the Devs had better make sure the adornments ya'll are putting on your ranged item no longer give you a benefit either. </p><p>As far as who should get it first... meh, I would probably let the Zerker(s) have it first, but after that, its fair game. Of course if I was in a "me me me" type of guild that previously screwed me on a bow drop, that would go right out the window. Then again, we only have one zerker in our raids and we just recently picked him up. Prior to that it was Guard / SK... and our Zerker only tanks on a few encounters where a 3rd might be useful. So I never had an issue getting my BotH.</p>

[MacDaddy62]

Personally, I am in a leader-loot guild (rare among hardcore guilds), and I got my buckler after the 1 warrior (off tank) who needed it after it was changed to be worth anything fpr a ranger.  However, if I was in a dkp guild, I would bid against pretty much anyone for it (with the possible exception of the MT), as 25 dps mod is huge for a ranger and I don't consider this item to be particularly crucial for an off-tank.Regarding Sony's whole proc logic, it's completely fuxxored.  According to the devs. melee weapons aren't supposed to proc off bow because "you aren't shooting your sword", but other items (non-weapons) proc off melee and sometimes bow, as well, and you aren't shooting or swinging those items either.  Furthermore, many weapons and other items proc off hostile or healing spells and you aren't exactly swinging those items when you cast spells.  It seems the devs are arbitrarily deciding that, for mage and priest classes, all procs are applied to the character, not the item, but for scout classes, procs on weapons are applied only to the weapon.  This distinction seems highly arbitrary.  One would think that at the very least non-weapon scout item effects would be applied to the character, not the weapon, and thus would work off both melee and bow, but this is not always the case, thus throwing a wrench into Sony's already arbitrary proc logic.  Furthermore, melee scouts routinely receive stat bonuses and, most notably, adornment dps mod from ranged weapons.  Rangers get stats from melee weapons, but not any notable adornment effects.  Overall, the distinction that melee weapons shouldn't proc off bow (and that bows shouldn't proc off melee attacks) seems extremely arbitrary.  If I were a developer in charge of this system, I would go with all-out cross-proccing between melee and bow weapons (including adornment procs) and tone down certain procs, if necessary, to compensate for such a change.  I see this as being the most 'fair' solution to the proc issue.-Azleya, Ranger and Officer of StrikeLucan D'Lere