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View Full Version : 4-4-8 Agility instead of 4-4-8 Strength


ZachDarkfly
07-03-2007, 12:19 PM
<p>I was wondeirng if anyone has tried 4-4-8 Agility with the new changes over 4-4-8 Strength and if so do you like it.  Also, in the second box in Agility it states the extra damage from horseback still in the description.  Is this still accurate and requires being on horsback for the extra damage?  I currently have 4-4-8 Stam and 4-4-8 Int with 4-4-2 Str and trying to decide if going Agility or Wisdom line would be better suited for me than Strength.  </p><p>Thanks</p>

Phalong
07-03-2007, 01:49 PM
<p>Ive considered switching Spec's as well.  </p><p>Currently my guild needs me to secondary tank on occausion, so Im speced STR/STA.  With the changes to the abilities no requiring a certin weapon, and everything using the same timer, I find myself using my STR line more then anything else.</p><p>The STR line has Haste as well as the attack that increases attack speed.  I can self buff to about 55 Haste, not too bad when soloing.  Im still tank spec'ed so my DPS is overall pretty low.  I top out at about 800DPS durring raids.</p><p>If my guild happens to not need me tanking anymore, I may switch to the Wisdom line for the buffs, and keep the STR line for the Melee DPS.  The other option Ive considered is the INT line for spell Crits.</p>

Arioc
07-03-2007, 06:15 PM
I was also futzing around with AA and pretty much discredited the dmg from Lance and Joust, the damage from Legionairs strike is far superior to Joust, and Lance is every 45 seconds. I suppose I could go down to Lance (Agil Ultimate) and retain 8 pts into lego strike and spell crit. Those two seem the most for affecting our dps. Lego's dmg is far superior to Joust (in dungeons without a horse). I notice little differance in my ability to tank or my dps from going down the wis line and it's group buffs. Not enough mobs actually use fear to warrent a fear resistance ultimate and 2% bonus is laughable.

Kaishod
07-03-2007, 07:44 PM
<p>I'm currently </p><p>AGI 448, STA 448, INT 458   From Full STR line, AGI 45, INT 448</p><p>and loving it... holding aggro doesn't seem to be a problem, even without the hate increase from the STR line, since my dps is higher, my DPS doesn't seem to be effected since I don't have the 10% reduction timer anymore since the trample and the crits help.  I am not a raid MT, though have been once or twice.  I mostly group, or dps when I do get to raid.  I would recommend this setup to anyone.  Its nice with the procs and the crits.  I also like being able to go all out to get my name on the parse paste and this setup has seemed to help that <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Controlor
07-04-2007, 11:50 AM
[email protected] Bazaar wrote: <blockquote><p>I was wondeirng if anyone has tried 4-4-8 Agility with the new changes over 4-4-8 Strength and if so do you like it.  Also, in the second box in Agility it states the extra damage from horseback still in the description.  Is this still accurate and requires being on horsback for the extra damage?  I currently have 4-4-8 Stam and 4-4-8 Int with 4-4-2 Str and trying to decide if going Agility or Wisdom line would be better suited for me than Strength.  </p><p>Thanks</p></blockquote>A few things: 1) Yes you do extra dmg on horseback. When looking at joust you see 2 dmg sets. the larger is the dmg you do w/o horse the smaller is the added dmg you do on a horse. Also the knockdown effect in the 4th one needs a horse, and the higher dmg dot / snare portion on the 5th needs a horse. But you can still do dmg (and get the defense) w/o a horse, that and the 40% is w/o horse also (wish was 80% on horse). 2) People are underestimating joust as just a dmg component. This is a problem as it has a 2nd portion to it the teleportion. The teleport (unlike the brawler one) just ports you to the mob you have to run back to the spot your at. (the brawler one will port you back to your spot). Just wish the joust was 20-30 meters (see 3rd thing as to why). 3) A little trick i have contemplated (havent done myself yet). Macro Joust + Rescue. Rescue is a 10 meter range joust is 15 meter (wish was higher). Epic mobs run like a bat outa hell. A little trick would be this macro and only use joust really as a saving ability. This would make it useful and still deal with the recast timers on all one timer. So use your other one consistantly until you need the rescue. If joust is available and you use it can teleport to the mob rescue and do dmg all at once (good combo imo). Again i havent done it myself so havent tried the whole mechanics of it yet. 4) It seems that Agi / Sta is more of a survival tank spec. Thinking would be good for a MT on raids also. Since on raids you get interupted a lot the spell crit usefullness drops down. While if you focus on melee (and melee critting). With the 4th line in agi giving you +def (1.7 / point) could boost avoid nicely. Sta line has the +4% hp so more hp from that. Also has  DA which now takes in account mit (very nice). And agi throwing in the fact you get a 40% chance to hit 4 other targets can help (if your just meleeing) with holding aoe agro. All in all i think Agi/Sta would be a good MT spec leave int str and the like for more dps oriented SK's.

Eluzay
07-05-2007, 02:38 AM
I dont see agil giving more dps than full str line, 10% faster timers both cast and recharge = 10% more damage not even counting the str melee speed boost.  I just dont see 10% dps in the agil line. I run full str full int, but only full int for reflect in pvp, it is sick when a wiz winds up and you pop reflect up.

Eluzay
07-05-2007, 02:39 AM
I dont see agil giving more dps than full str line, 10% faster timers both cast and recharge = 10% more damage not even counting the str melee speed boost.  I just dont see 10% dps in the agil line. I run full str full int, but only full int for reflect in pvp, it is sick when a wiz winds up and you pop reflect up.

Controlor
07-05-2007, 03:45 AM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>I dont see agil giving more dps than full str line, 10% faster timers both cast and recharge = 10% more damage not even counting the str melee speed boost.  I just dont see 10% dps in the agil line. I run full str full int, but only full int for reflect in pvp, it is sick when a wiz winds up and you pop reflect up. </blockquote>10% faster cast timers doesnt = 10% dps. For multiple reasons. The most basic reason is that your spells arnt 100% of your dps. You add melee to that mix. The haste yes will boost your dps but 100% haste doesnt boost dps by 100%. Second reason is that faster cast times just make so you can cast more spells in the same amount of time. I dont know your spell timers (as i am a pally). But if you wanna see how much it increases your spell dps dont melee at all and go that way just nuke and when your done after a set number of trials take the average dps and compare it with the same number of mobs w/o str spec that will give you the dps boost. Then just take the difference. Really the only things that give a one to one ratio in dps look at an enchanter. Int spec enchanters (mostly illys) that stay under 30% pr will have a direct 1 to 1 increase in dps by 30% (more if you factor in spell crits). But again you melee so part of your dps is from there and that will reduce the total dps you get from the end of str line.

cptnapa
07-05-2007, 07:11 AM
<cite>Controlor wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>I dont see agil giving more dps than full str line, 10% faster timers both cast and recharge = 10% more damage not even counting the str melee speed boost.  I just dont see 10% dps in the agil line. I run full str full int, but only full int for reflect in pvp, it is sick when a wiz winds up and you pop reflect up. </blockquote>10% faster cast timers doesnt = 10% dps. For multiple reasons. The most basic reason is that your spells arnt 100% of your dps. You add melee to that mix. The haste yes will boost your dps but 100% haste doesnt boost dps by 100%. Second reason is that faster cast times just make so you can cast more spells in the same amount of time. I dont know your spell timers (as i am a pally). But if you wanna see how much it increases your spell dps dont melee at all and go that way just nuke and when your done after a set number of trials take the average dps and compare it with the same number of mobs w/o str spec that will give you the dps boost. Then just take the difference. Really the only things that give a one to one ratio in dps look at an enchanter. Int spec enchanters (mostly illys) that stay under 30% pr will have a direct 1 to 1 increase in dps by 30% (more if you factor in spell crits). But again you melee so part of your dps is from there and that will reduce the total dps you get from the end of str line. </blockquote><p>Erm, thats wrong. Full STR line will actually give you a almost across-the-board 10%-14% dps increase from not-having it to having it. The Haste, 18% (With DimRet at low end, is about 22% melee increase), will give you 18% melee damage (if you dont waste hits). And the casting/reuse/recovery of 10% (which counts on all buttons, don't know why you keep mentioning spells only) will be a straight 10% *all abilities* 10% dps increase. so 10% from abilities + 18% from melee (not counting another 24-30% from the Swift Haste ability in STR line) will equal easily 12%-15% across-the-board dps increase.</p><p> Now, this is not saying this is the best spec. I was MT'ing last nite, and trying out AGI 4-4-8 / WIS 4-4-8 / INT 4-4-8, and was pulling 2.25k DPS on namer fights in Labs, 1600 zonewide, in my mediocre gear. </p><p>It's all a balancing act, I am sure <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>/Shadarr </p>

Nocifer Deathblade
07-05-2007, 03:24 PM
<cite>Arioc wrote:</cite><blockquote>I was also futzing around with AA and pretty much discredited the dmg from Lance and Joust, the damage from Legionairs strike is far superior to Joust, and Lance is every 45 seconds. I suppose I could go down to Lance (Agil Ultimate) and retain 8 pts into lego strike and spell crit. Those two seem the most for affecting our dps. Lego's dmg is far superior to Joust (in dungeons without a horse). I notice little differance in my ability to tank or my dps from going down the wis line and it's group buffs. Not enough mobs actually use fear to warrent a fear resistance ultimate and 2% bonus is laughable. </blockquote><p> Joust used to be good however before the revamp. Now its damage got nerfed overall even on horse.. Before the change, joust always double attack NO matter if you have horse or not (a bug for long time).  I was doing 573 hp max  double attack for total of average 1 k per joust. Now, I get only to double attack of 360ish and 650ish. The net damage got reduced. It even got worse when I get off horse.. IT SUCKS..  Teleportation is no big deal in my situation..  Switching it to leg's strike is much better cuz it does good damage PLUS it enjoys our spell crit along with it..</p><p>Lance is actually an upgrade during revamp.. It's damage overall got boosted plus cannot be riposted..  I had lance that cost 8 aa and in gimped form for long time so two total upgrades (reduced 8 aa to 2 aa) then boosted damage overall plus cannot be riposted is most welcome change.. I had hoped that lance would enable me to use horse indoor but it didn't come yet. ;(</p><p>40% trample OWNS now.. No matter if you have horse or not..  Before the change, you only get to trample 18% of time without horse or 36% with horse. It's a total nice boost.. Trample owns for Sk especially with full clad of AE spells that SK got along with REAVER line along with awesome AE lifetap. </p><p>For higher ground, it got LITTLE boost, I only got +2 defense boost at rank 8. Bleh.. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> No big deal heh. I had hoped for longer duration of immune to knockdowns but it didn't happen..</p>

Marduk
07-05-2007, 08:05 PM
Depends on what do you want from your SK.. 4-4-8 str, int, sta - top dps spec on single encaunter.. 4-4-8 agi, int, sta - top dps spec on ae encounter.. 4-4-8 wis - it's only fo grouping and pvping..

Coica
07-06-2007, 11:05 AM
again, it's so cheap to respec often now that I recomend trying out different AA's and seeing what works best for YOU and how you play.  but it is good to see what others are doing and how it works for them so good reply's all.  personally, I got less DPS with the 10% recast reduction than I did otherwise.but I mainly solo and group and my role in group is to keep agro and to take on amazing quantities of Mobs at once and not die.If my role changes then maybe I would respec again.God knows I, like many of you, have respeced a dozen times in the last 6 months.  Only way to tell is Parse it and see, if you do more DPS with that and thats your role, then do it.

juz
07-10-2007, 04:59 PM
I know WIS doesn't appear as a straight DPS increase but wouldn't Leadership add DPS simply by lowering your melee, CAs and spells misses/ressists?

cptnapa
07-11-2007, 08:35 AM
<p>Indeed it does increase DPS against harder mobs.</p><p>/Shadarr</p>

Ookie
07-12-2007, 12:41 PM
for the joust aa it does work on indoor zones where you are not on your horse as long as your mount buff is still active, if u fd or die and lose the buff you won't be able to do that secondary portion of damage...