Plant "Problems"...?

[Tyrion]

<p>Plant is now a 4.2 second duration on epic mobs at Master 1.</p><p> I noticed in my raids tonight that Plant was breaking a split-second after I casted it. We killed Treyloth in FTH first pull, but it sure as hell was more nerve racking to watch him run off, kill the Ranger, then run back to me and not obliterate half the raid force.</p><p>I always assumed before this latest LU that Plant never broke, although it says specifically there's a small chance of breaking. But the break % has never been stated in the CA descriptions. I assumed either 1% or 5%. So in theory, this works great if mobs spawn and you want to grab them (think Tender if you've got fast fingers) since there's no DoT's on them, but fully debuffed and damaged raid mobs? Good luck if it breaks instantly.</p><p>Is this an anomaly? Or have others experienced this annoying little change? I honestly liked my unbreakable Plant because it really made the difference. Now, at least in most raiding aspects, it's useless unless used with omniscient foresight. And that's not to mention it's reduced duration...</p><p>Was the original incarnation overpowering? You think the way it is now is intended? Thoughts?</p>

[Kule]

Absolutely unacceptable, IMHO. Change Plant back to prior GU36.

[Khurghan]

Wow at 4.2 seconds might as well remove it from my hotbars altogether. Considering Sony's track record we should really be thankful that it does not just auto-delete your toon.

[Bramwe]

<cite>Khurghan wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wow at 4.2 seconds might as well remove it from my hotbars altogether. Considering Sony's track record we should really be thankful that it does not just auto-delete your toon. </blockquote>Not to mention if it is easily broken by the mob I am sure you will ALWAYS be planted for the full duration.

[Aven Elonis]

Just tried in Live, and I didn't notice any change to the spell. Will check again to make sure later.

[Kule]

What didn't you notice? They changed the duration, an indisputable fact. <img src="/smilies/c30b4198e0907b23b8246bdd52aa1c3c.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Aven Elonis]

<p>My duration on the Adept 3 version of Plant is 12.5 sec (with 5 AA on that which increases its duration by 5 sec) and it didn't break on mobs by Castle Mistmoore that I tried it on.</p><p>But 4.2 sec duration on epics and then they are immune to root for 37.5 sec. Can't said I saw that one mention on any updates notes anywhere. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[guxx99]

<p>It was nerfed.  It's still 12.5s (w/ 5 in AA) for < epic mobs.  For epics mobs, I quote at the bottom of the description:</p><p>"Epic targets gain an immunity to Root effect of 37.5s and duration is reduced to 4.2s"</p><p> Was it overpowered?  Probably.  12.5s of unbreakable root that lets ranged dps to max?</p><p>EDIT: plant still lasts for 4.2s of unbreakable for epic mobs.  and yes, the plant buff icon is gone after 4.2s along w/ the self plant.</p>

[Zo]

stupid, sneaky, pointless, unacceptable...

[Jackula]

I know at least one necro and wizard that are gonna be dying more.

[Yourbestfriend]

It got nerfed, now it sucks, - suck it up.

[Ether]

<p>At this stage its one less master I'll need to upgrade and one less AA line to follow. Seriously 5 points in the EoF line to go from 2.5-4 seconds? Laugh.</p><p> Nothing in the patch notes so this simply must be a mistake. They did an automated database sweep of all root spells and changed this. Dont think its sneaky, just an error.</p><p> Jaraxx, how can you seriously believe this was intended? Plant was fine for over a year, and nobody ever complained it was overpowered and suddenly they changed it? This isnt amazing reflexes we are talking about...</p>

[notyou]

Here's why. From the LU notes: Coercer and Illusionist Root spells can now target epic targets. The enchanters complained that they should be masters of all control spells so no one else gets any. End of story. [Removed for Content] this game.

[Triste-Lune]

SOE is just plain. this change is pointless and was it overpowered? i dont thinkm it s not like 12 sec root is enough to range dps a named to death, it was just allowing player to deal with memwipes. noz people that were smart enought to use it in a timely fashion will just be brough back in the line of the stupid grasseating players

[Soul_Dreamer]

<p>Hmmm Treyloth will be harder for us now and I can guarantee that my guild will complain my AOE agro has gone down, I used to use this all the time if an encounter had more than 3 mobs to keep them on me.</p>

[Tid]

Come on Guardians, we should be used to being bent over the desk and being wronged by now......... Come SOE, fix this error!

[Docimodo]

yeah 4 seconds is a bit [Removed for Content]. I liked this skill for just topping up the debuffs on encounters and bosses at the beginning of a fight. the root was largely useless in most cases. With that kind of duration its hardly even worth it....

[TuinalOfTheNexus]

<p>Plant was one of the most difficult skills to use effectively in a raid, because it needed to be co-ordinated with dps classes and/or precisely timed.</p><p>Removing it has dumbed down the game yet again towards button-mashing. Coercers and Illusionists cannot perform the job Plant did prior to the nerf, and their roots remain pointless against epics. Fortunately since they're removed the need for mitigation too or any other kind of meaningful defensive stats, we can all wear legendary leather with crit % and rely on autoattacking to hold aggro. No more lifeburn without FD but at least they didn't nerf it directly, so necros can still solo farm heroic nameds easily which was probably the purpose of the spell anyway.</p><p>It is reaching the point where my contribution on, for example, Mayong would be to turn autoattack on and get a coffee. In fact I could get away with this totally if I didn't have to call timers. CAs actually mean missed swings so contribute little damage; Plant can't be co-ordinated with DPS burns anymore, mitigation means nothing so my defensive buffs are little more than self-debuffs, and my experience in the new raid zone was ludicrously easy fights from a skill-based perspective with cryptic pull orders and scripts that wiped the raid. I think on our second visit it's going to be a flawless clear because as soon as you know how each encounter works they're trivial. Compare that to Tarinax before they nerfed the crap outta him; you could read spoilers all you wanted but at least you actually needed to be awake to kill him. Queen Lenya = DPS burn. Overseer = DPS burn. Statue thingy = DPS burn. Mayong = same old.</p><p>If this sounds a bit negative well - yeah, it is. Ever since EoF launch they've continued to make gear more and more meaningless, fights less and less challenging, even to the point they're having to gradually increase the difficulty in EH and MMIS (yet again in a haphazard fashion that doesn't really make the encounters more challenging). Their final chapter in SoD was completed in 24h, and even casual gamers can get it done in a week. Guilds are sat round spawn points 4 nights of the week waiting for the only challenging nameds in the game, which are sadly contested and thus unavailable to most players simply because they can't invest the hours sat waiting.</p>

[lCUBANOl]

Treyloth is a [Removed for Content] now. For some reason his mem whipe keeps sgetting coordinated with Searing rot which is bad news for the raid <img src="/smilies/1069449046bcd664c21db15b1dfedaee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Snorm]

<p>Yes, I had some colorful words to say about the plant changes last night fighting Treyloth, however they didn't change searing at all (that I saw). It's just harder to keep him on lock down w/o plant. And it looks like they changed it so that reinforcement doesn't tick on him except for off of autoattack now. So yippie.... </p><p>Both of the last two names in FTH seem to have been beefed up a bit, actually.</p><p>Anyway, still killable, just more annoying, and remember that he's tanked by classes that don't even have either of those abilities all the time <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> So suck it up.</p><p> PS: I want plant back.</p><p>Snorm -- 70 Guard</p>

[Yourbestfriend]

Stop [Removed for Content] [Removed for Content] about plant it was nerfed that's all there is to it it has little to no purpose - suck it up. [Removed for Content] about it will do nothing.

[blacksheep12183]

<p>Wow, i mean that's pretty weak man.  I mean if you wanna take it in the [Removed for Content] and not say anything that's cool but don't encourage others to be a buncha quiet little school girls just because you want to be.  People wanna whine they can whine, and they have justification, so basically you contribute nothing to this conversation what so ever so how about you stay the [Removed for Content] out?  That'd probably be a hell of alot more productive.</p>

[blacksheep12183]

<p>Oh and btw it doesn't make you any cooler when half your post is Bleeped out by the boards. Makes you look like a raging idiot with an inferiority complex. Have a nice day </p>

[Rob626]

Basic question, but I can't help it. Please explain how an ae root helps maintain aggro? It seems like the additional hate generated is minimal, but then since I don't raid I rarely have a use for Plant outside PvP. Does Plant really produce that much hate? Majo, 56 Guardian of Venekor, Token-Dispenser

[Ep]

plant "used to" be about to do 12sec(aa'd) unbreakable, true aoe, epic rootable. the most basic use would be a chain casting lifeburing necro, to advance-oh mob will memwipe and go crazy in 2%, what will i do.

[Jackula]

Rob 626, if a mob is rooted near you, it will swing at you just because it can, even though the player it really wants to hit is that lifeburning necro who is out of the mobs rooted swing range.  This allows you to get some more hate from the mob due to inflaming defense procs, and more importantly keep those hard hitting players in your raid force safe from the mob as long as they're smart enough not to stand beside it while it's rooted. With AAs, mine used to last 12.5 seconds <u>versus epics</u>.  Now it only lasts 4.2 seconds <u>versus epics</u>.  It is much less useful than it was, but it is still a tool at our disposal.   Worth the AA points?  Yes, but you need to use it more precisely to get the most out of it.  I miss those extra 8 seconds.  For those who don't think 8 seconds are long, go ride a bull in a rodeo.  That;s how long you need to stay on that sucker.   Trust me, 8 seconds ain't short.  <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Blumfield]

<p>Solution!</p><p>Put a coercer in the MT group who has thought snap.</p><p>Macro:  /useability Plant</p><p>             /tell MTcoercername CAST THOUGHT SNAP IN 3.7 SECONDS</p><p>             /raid << %t >>  Planted for 12 seconds</p><p>..Nobody will know the difference ;-D</p><p>your friend,</p>Schmutzen the Coercer

[sirmamabe]

I also miss the extra 8 secs.  Though the main thing about plant that has always confused me is if I am rooted, how can the mob knock me back? Puffery - Mt of Waters of Life

[Yourbestfriend]

<cite>blacksheep12183 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Wow, i mean that's pretty weak man.  I mean if you wanna take it in the [I cannot control my vocabulary] and not say anything that's cool but don't encourage others to be a buncha quiet little school girls just because you want to be.  People wanna whine they can whine, and they have justification, so basically you contribute nothing to this conversation what so ever so how about you stay the [I cannot control my vocabulary] out?  That'd probably be a hell of alot more productive.</p></blockquote>Look bud you are obviously a noob since you don't know this works. Guardians had everything for a while, You don't seem to realize the potential if you got let's say 5 guardians together you could keep a mob perma rooted so it couldn't even attack EVER - Overpowered much? Hell yes, now most people had more respect for the game to do that. Regardless some did and that's why the nerfed happened. I agree it should of just stayed 12 seconds epic root and then had like a minute root immune effect but it didn't. Whining and [Removed for Content] about it will do nothing. O and btw I do like it when the [Removed for Content] [Removed for Content] [Removed for Content] [Removed for Content] [Removed for Content] [Removed for Content] [Removed for Content] [Removed for Content] [Removed for Content] [Removed for Content] thing pops up. It makes me feel good about myself inside, don't judge me.

[Choombatta]

Jaraxx@Lucan DLere wrote: <blockquote><cite>blacksheep12183 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Wow, i mean that's pretty weak man.  I mean if you wanna take it in the [I cannot control my vocabulary] and not say anything that's cool but don't encourage others to be a buncha quiet little school girls just because you want to be.  People wanna whine they can whine, and they have justification, so basically you contribute nothing to this conversation what so ever so how about you stay the [I cannot control my vocabulary] out?  That'd probably be a hell of alot more productive.</p></blockquote>Look bud you are obviously a noob since you don't know this works. Guardians had everything for a while, <span style="color: #ff3300">You don't seem to realize the potential if you got let's say 5 guardians together you could keep a mob perma rooted so it couldn't even attack EVER - Overpowered much?</span> Hell yes, now most people had more respect for the game to do that. Regardless some did and that's why the nerfed happened. I agree it should of just stayed 12 seconds epic root and then had like a minute root immune effect but it didn't. Whining and [I cannot control my vocabulary] about it will do nothing. O and btw I do like it when the [I cannot control my vocabulary] [I cannot control my vocabulary] [I cannot control my vocabulary] [I cannot control my vocabulary] [I cannot control my vocabulary] [I cannot control my vocabulary] [I cannot control my vocabulary] [I cannot control my vocabulary] [I cannot control my vocabulary] [I cannot control my vocabulary] thing pops up. It makes me feel good about myself inside, don't judge me. </blockquote>Ummm, Root effects do not stop a mob from attacking at all. All they do is keep a mob from moving from the spot they are standing on. Nothing overpowered there at all. The mob still auto attacks ( have to stun to stop those _ and can still use CAs and Spells ( have to stifle to stop those ).

[Yourbestfriend]

<cite>Choombatta wrote:</cite><blockquote> Ummm, Root effects do not stop a mob from attacking at all. All they do is keep a mob from moving from the spot they are standing on. Nothing overpowered there at all. The mob still auto attacks ( have to stun to stop those _ and can still use CAs and Spells ( have to stifle to stop those ). </blockquote> Go to the corner, do not leave the corner until you realize how dumb your argument is. I mean unless you are like a paladin but if you have ever played a guardian before you know [Removed for Content] well how the [Removed for Content] you can root mobs and make it so it can't attack you.

[Choombatta]

Jaraxx@Lucan DLere wrote: <blockquote><cite>Choombatta wrote:</cite><blockquote> Ummm, Root effects do not stop a mob from attacking at all. All they do is keep a mob from moving from the spot they are standing on. Nothing overpowered there at all. The mob still auto attacks ( have to stun to stop those _ and can still use CAs and Spells ( have to stifle to stop those ). </blockquote> Go to the corner, do not leave the corner until you realize how dumb your argument is. I mean unless you are like a paladin but if you have ever played a guardian before you know [I cannot control my vocabulary] well how the [I cannot control my vocabulary] you can root mobs and make it so it can't attack you. </blockquote><p> Are you serious?!?!</p><p>You talk about 5 guardians on a raid keeping a mob from ever attacking a single person, and then you call my argument dumb?</p><p>**EDIT**</p><p>I am going to assume you are maybe talking about 5 guardians each using Plant once another's wear off to keep the mob perma-rooted. But even then, isn't plant's AE range the same as melee range? And since it roots the guardian also, he could not plant then move back out of melee range, right?</p>

[Pelda]

hahahahaha 5 guardians...on a raid!

[Wilin]

Peldaar@Venekor wrote: <blockquote>hahahahaha 5 guardians...on a raid!</blockquote> I've seen it. It wasn't pretty but it got the job done. (I'm not referencing the perma-plant, just 5 guards in the same raid force)

[Yourbestfriend]

It's about the most strategic thing you can do, for you r [Removed for Content] who don't know how the hell to do anything here's what you do Cast plant at the last split second jump back - you will be out of attack range and your target will be rooted. You could seriously have 5 guardians locking down any raid mob in the game with perfection.

[Choombatta]

Jaraxx@Lucan DLere wrote: <blockquote>It's about the most strategic thing you can do, for you r [I cannot control my vocabulary] who don't know how the hell to do anything here's what you do Cast plant at the last split second jump back - you will be out of attack range and your target will be rooted. You could seriously have 5 guardians locking down any raid mob in the game with perfection. </blockquote><p> I bet you do not consider that an exploit either.</p><p>Guess we know who to thank for Plant being destroyed.</p>

[Snorm]

<p>How is it an exploit if the range on plant the standard CA range, which is just slightly larger than autoattack range? You will still get any CA's that the mob has and certainly all the AE's, but you could hypothetically avoid all the autoattack damage. Good luck doing it consistently in practice. </p><p>In a similar vein, just plant before a KB, and hope you get tossed out of range.... Again, not really all that useful in practice as most raids have other melee people the mob will just turn on, but yes you could try to take advantage of that if you wanted. Still can for that matter, but only for 4.5 seconds with AA's. So now you just need 13.333333 guards on the raid. Let me go update my recruiting thread....</p><p>I'm quite certain that this was in no way the reason they changed plant.</p><p>Snorm -- 70 Guard</p>

[Choombatta]

<cite>Snorm wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>How is it an exploit if the range on plant the standard CA range, which is just slightly larger than autoattack range? You will still get any CA's that the mob has and certainly all the AE's, but you could hypothetically avoid all the autoattack damage. Good luck doing it consistently in practice. </p></blockquote>It would not be in that case. That is not what he was talking about though. Is plant's max range just outside auto attack range for raid mobs?

[Snorm]

<p>Yes. It's 5m, like almost all CA's. Actual autoattack is around 3m or so. Turn on autoattack outside of melee range on a mob, inch up until your CA's just go live, and you should still get the out of range message. Hit plant. The other option is to actually be in the air within range, moving away from a mob when it lands with you landing outside of melee range, which is what Jaraxx is getting at.</p><p>Oh, and with the stun immunity, you can't actualy chain them, but still... 13.3 guards FTW!</p><p>Snorm -- 70 Guard</p>

[Choombatta]

<cite>Snorm wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Yes. It's 5m, like almost all CA's. Actual autoattack is around 3m or so. </p></blockquote><p> Is that for all Raid mobs?</p><p>Tarinax does not have a greater Auto attack range then 3m?</p>

[Snorm]

<p>I've never seen a case where the mob was hitting me and I couldn't hit it w/o moving forward, so I'm going to assume so.</p><p>Snorm -- 70 Guard</p>

[Cornbread Muffin]

<cite>Choombatta wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Snorm wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Yes. It's 5m, like almost all CA's. Actual autoattack is around 3m or so. </p></blockquote><p> Is that for all Raid mobs?</p><p>Tarinax does not have a greater Auto attack range then 3m?</p></blockquote> It might look like it, but mobs have a hit box around them and that is where your distance gets calculated. Giants are a good example. They can hit you from far away but you can hit them, too, even though you are tiny. Some mobs, on the other hand, have a tiny little hit box and you have to ram your head up their [Removed for Content] to get close enough to hit them.

[Lockerby]

<p>A problem with Plant was/is that you are rooted, too - so when you get kicked you loose aggro on this mobs,  that means aggro switches  probably to a nearer DD, so you have to break of Plant on Bufflist. </p><p>Aggro is also a question of range between Tank and Mob. </p><p>Heraklit</p>