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Raidyen
06-20-2007, 03:27 PM
<p>I have read a few opinions, but i actaully think this is a pretty big deal for all levels of toons and deserves its own discussion, and wanted to voice my opinion.  I am also trying to understand the reason behind this limit to AA's.  I just dont see it fixing what the few are complaining about, which is getting ganked by a tweaked level 20 with 100 aa's.</p><p>First, the low levels.  Can somebody please post me a screenshot of a level 20 or lower character that has more then 50 AA's?  I just dont see how its possible.  I have a level 18 wizard with 17 AA's.  Exps off at 10, all Discoverys in DoF, every pre 20 GF quest and DF quest, Caves, most of Ant quests, and half of commonlands quests.  I might be able to get to 25 AA's before level 20, (using exp debt)  but i find that highly unlikely.  I would love to here proof that i am wrong on this.  Removing exp debt will stop that practice anyway.  The only problem is capping the current players with this fabled 50+ aa's.  Easy fix, make is unable to disable pvp exps.  Eventually they will filter up.  </p><p>The mid levels.  It is going to be pretty easy for a mid level toon to hit that 1.5 cap without much work.  A close friend of mine that is just unable to keep up with my main has a level 46 gaurdian with 52 AA's.  Granted that isnt the cap, but most of his levels were being powered through instances.  Somebody that played the content normally without getting power leveled would easily be at that 1.5 cap.  I find it a bit unfair the a power level'd toon can have pretty much the same advantages of a toon that worked hard every level to earn AA's.</p><p>The high levels.  There is no reason a level 60 should be limited to 90 AA's.  I can deal with this limitation IF it is actually helping the lower or mid levels, but i just dont see the 1.5 fixing any of the current issues.  I welcome the debate to prove my opinions wrong.</p>

Norrsken
06-20-2007, 03:37 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>I have read a few opinions, but i actaully think this is a pretty big deal for all levels of toons and deserves its own discussion, and wanted to voice my opinion.  I am also trying to understand the reason behind this limit to AA's.  I just dont see it fixing what the few are complaining about, which is getting ganked by a tweaked level 20 with 100 aa's.</p><p>First, the low levels.  Can somebody please post me a screenshot of a level 20 or lower character that has more then 50 AA's?  I just dont see how its possible.  I have a level 18 wizard with 17 AA's.  Exps off at 10, all Discoverys in DoF, every pre 20 GF quest and DF quest, Caves, most of Ant quests, and half of commonlands quests.  I might be able to get to 25 AA's before level 20, (using exp debt)  but i find that highly unlikely.  I would love to here proof that i am wrong on this.  Removing exp debt will stop that practice anyway.  The only problem is capping the current players with this fabled 50+ aa's.  Easy fix, make is unable to disable pvp exps.  Eventually they will filter up.  </p><p>The mid levels.  It is going to be pretty easy for a mid level toon to hit that 1.5 cap without much work.  A close friend of mine that is just unable to keep up with my main has a level 46 gaurdian with 52 AA's.  Granted that isnt the cap, but most of his levels were being powered through instances.  Somebody that played the content normally without getting power leveled would easily be at that 1.5 cap.  I find it a bit unfair the a power level'd toon can have pretty much the same advantages of a toon that worked hard every level to earn AA's.</p><p>The high levels.  There is no reason a level 60 should be limited to 90 AA's.  I can deal with this limitation IF it is actually helping the lower or mid levels, but i just dont see the 1.5 fixing any of the current issues.  I welcome the debate to prove my opinions wrong.</p></blockquote>Discos give a bad aa/xp return. Do quests instead. and Im quite certain I will hit the AA cap before I hit 15. you can have 5 aas at 10 without getting a sliver of xp. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> After that, you get about 3 aas/lvl as far as I can see on my new toons. Without debting.

Qanil
06-20-2007, 03:39 PM
<p>I think it's worth noting that the second I dinged 10 on an alt in Darklight, I was promptly attacked by a 14 swashbuckler on a mount with lung reversal... in fencer stance.</p><p>know how many AAs it takes to have that?  do the math.</p><p>Also, what's up with the lying populace of the level lockers saying that the majority of them only fight the good fights.  Check the screenshots I have if you want I'll post them of not 1 x2, but TWO x2s of level locked nubs at the Fair in Darklight wood camping anyone that dings 10.</p><p>pretty pathetic.  i'm glad they're nerfing the locks a little, they should do more tbh.</p>

Raidyen
06-20-2007, 03:51 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>I think it's worth noting that the second I dinged 10 on an alt in Darklight, I was promptly attacked by a 14 swashbuckler on a mount with lung reversal... in fencer stance.</p><p>know how many AAs it takes to have that?  do the math.</p><p>Also, what's up with the lying populace of the level lockers saying that the majority of them only fight the good fights.  Check the screenshots I have if you want I'll post them of not 1 x2, but TWO x2s of level locked nubs at the Fair in Darklight wood camping anyone that dings 10.</p><p>pretty pathetic.  i'm glad they're nerfing the locks a little, they should do more tbh.</p></blockquote><p> I am not is disagreement that level locking and ganking should be looked at.  I am just a bit confused about how a 1.5 cap is really going to fix this.  Based on Norrsken's numbers, we are talking about a level 20 having 35 AA's, which i could probably agree.  however thats only 5 AA's over the cap.  Not much of a difference, and it really worth messing up the 50+ toons?</p><p>As far as you getting hit with lung reversal by a level 14, it would only take 6 AA's to get that ability.  1- pick pocket, 4 -wis, 1- lung reversal.  Nothing the 1.5 cap is going to fix.</p>

Valdar
06-20-2007, 03:56 PM
<p>Remove debt, give a small amount of xp for each kill and the whole locking problem is solved. People will level up, but very slowly so they can enjoy the gear they have earned.</p><p>This AA cap is a halfarsed measure imo</p>

Norrsken
06-20-2007, 03:58 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>I think it's worth noting that the second I dinged 10 on an alt in Darklight, I was promptly attacked by a 14 swashbuckler on a mount with lung reversal... in fencer stance.</p><p>know how many AAs it takes to have that?  do the math.</p><p>Also, what's up with the lying populace of the level lockers saying that the majority of them only fight the good fights.  Check the screenshots I have if you want I'll post them of not 1 x2, but TWO x2s of level locked nubs at the Fair in Darklight wood camping anyone that dings 10.</p><p>pretty pathetic.  i'm glad they're nerfing the locks a little, they should do more tbh.</p></blockquote><p> I am not is disagreement that level locking and ganking should be looked at.  I am just a bit confused about how a 1.5 cap is really going to fix this.  Based on Norrsken's numbers, we are talking about a level 20 having 35 AA's, which i could probably agree.  however thats only 5 AA's over the cap.  Not much of a difference, and it really worth messing up the 50+ toons?</p><p>As far as you getting hit with lung reversal by a level 14, it would only take 6 AA's to get that ability.  1- pick pocket, 4 -wis, 1- lung reversal.  Nothing the 1.5 cap is going to fix.</p></blockquote>And then, if you have nice guildies, they can take you on red named hunting, which will net you anywhere in the realm of 20-40 aas. Without XP. This is also doable at 10, though you'll spend most time face down in the dirt. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Armawk
06-20-2007, 04:03 PM
<p>Its easy to find toons at 15 with 25+ aa points. easy. 17s with 30 are common enough.</p>

Raidyen
06-20-2007, 04:04 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>I think it's worth noting that the second I dinged 10 on an alt in Darklight, I was promptly attacked by a 14 swashbuckler on a mount with lung reversal... in fencer stance.</p><p>know how many AAs it takes to have that?  do the math.</p><p>Also, what's up with the lying populace of the level lockers saying that the majority of them only fight the good fights.  Check the screenshots I have if you want I'll post them of not 1 x2, but TWO x2s of level locked nubs at the Fair in Darklight wood camping anyone that dings 10.</p><p>pretty pathetic.  i'm glad they're nerfing the locks a little, they should do more tbh.</p></blockquote><p> I am not is disagreement that level locking and ganking should be looked at.  I am just a bit confused about how a 1.5 cap is really going to fix this.  Based on Norrsken's numbers, we are talking about a level 20 having 35 AA's, which i could probably agree.  however thats only 5 AA's over the cap.  Not much of a difference, and it really worth messing up the 50+ toons?</p><p>As far as you getting hit with lung reversal by a level 14, it would only take 6 AA's to get that ability.  1- pick pocket, 4 -wis, 1- lung reversal.  Nothing the 1.5 cap is going to fix.</p></blockquote>And then, if you have nice guildies, they can take you on red named hunting, which will net you anywhere in the realm of 20-40 aas. Without XP. This is also doable at 10, though you'll spend most time face down in the dirt. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote>Broken and should be fixed.  You should not get AA exps from red con named, or even better, AA's should be disabled just like regular exps if your in a group to high for you.  And 1.5 is still not going to prevent a level 17 from getting a final on the first tree with 25 AA's.  And honestly if he has friends that are going to walk him around and name hunt for AA's, they are sure going to be dumping some serious coin on him too with adornments, master 1's and fabled gear.  Loosing some AA's are not going to change the fact that he is still going to plow over any average player.

Vrenrar
06-20-2007, 05:03 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>Loosing some AA's are not going to change the fact that he is still going to plow over any average player. </blockquote> Nuff said

Norrsken
06-20-2007, 05:42 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>I think it's worth noting that the second I dinged 10 on an alt in Darklight, I was promptly attacked by a 14 swashbuckler on a mount with lung reversal... in fencer stance.</p><p>know how many AAs it takes to have that?  do the math.</p><p>Also, what's up with the lying populace of the level lockers saying that the majority of them only fight the good fights.  Check the screenshots I have if you want I'll post them of not 1 x2, but TWO x2s of level locked nubs at the Fair in Darklight wood camping anyone that dings 10.</p><p>pretty pathetic.  i'm glad they're nerfing the locks a little, they should do more tbh.</p></blockquote><p> I am not is disagreement that level locking and ganking should be looked at.  I am just a bit confused about how a 1.5 cap is really going to fix this.  Based on Norrsken's numbers, we are talking about a level 20 having 35 AA's, which i could probably agree.  however thats only 5 AA's over the cap.  Not much of a difference, and it really worth messing up the 50+ toons?</p><p>As far as you getting hit with lung reversal by a level 14, it would only take 6 AA's to get that ability.  1- pick pocket, 4 -wis, 1- lung reversal.  Nothing the 1.5 cap is going to fix.</p></blockquote>And then, if you have nice guildies, they can take you on red named hunting, which will net you anywhere in the realm of 20-40 aas. Without XP. This is also doable at 10, though you'll spend most time face down in the dirt. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote>Broken and should be fixed.  You should not get AA exps from red con named, or even better, AA's should be disabled just like regular exps if your in a group to high for you.  And 1.5 is still not going to prevent a level 17 from getting a final on the first tree with 25 AA's.  And honestly if he has friends that are going to walk him around and name hunt for AA's, they are sure going to be dumping some serious coin on him too with adornments, master 1's and fabled gear.  Loosing some AA's are not going to change the fact that he is still going to plow over any average player. </blockquote>True, but its quite possible, although, time consuming to at the moment get at least 40 aas in t2. the cap will cut these twinks out of the equation. The best way to stop t2 gankfests is to just not allow any pvp rewards down there. sure, pvp all you like, but no status/faction/loot for you.

PeaSy1
06-20-2007, 05:50 PM
see this doesnt make sence and aa is not the prob a guildie of mine plays and duos with his brother they are both lvl 17 destroyers mystic/pali they dont even have a expansion so have no acces to aa

Norrsken
06-20-2007, 05:52 PM
<cite>PeaSy1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>see this doesnt make sence and aa is not the prob a guildie of mine plays and duos with his brother they are both lvl 17 destroyers mystic/pali they dont even have a expansion so have no acces to aa</blockquote>I know qiute a few t2 dreadnaughts.

HerbertWalker
06-20-2007, 11:18 PM
<p>38 wiz with 65aa  (8 over the max)</p><p>If in favor of a 1.5x cap, you are making the judgement that my 38 wizard is exactly 8AA too powerful.</p><p>Take away those 8AA, and then all is fair?</p><p>That makes no sense, and everyone knows it.</p>

MalkorGodchyld
06-21-2007, 03:08 AM
<p>   Its just soe's way of half azzed addressing a problem that they dont have a full understanding of.      The largest problem you have with twinks & pvp is numbers...Gank fests...NOT aa's.       And guess what...thats the same problem u have in t7.         </p><p>  AA's at low lvls is the equivalent of Raid Gear in T7 imo...but not even.   Cuz if your not in a good raid guild you wont see any of that gear...period.      The opportunity to get aa's is out there & it isnt hidden...anybody thats willing to invest the time can do it & imo some actually deserve it for the effort they put in.    And i agree...there's no reason whatsoever that a lvl 60 character should be limited to 90 aa...its ridiculous.        If low lvls having aa is a problem that they feel needs to be fixed...hell just fix it in specific tiers.    </p><p>  What they need to be doing is tackling the real issue by discouraging excessive numbers of players on somebody solo.      Whats excessive?   they can hash that out themselves.   The point is that no skill is involved whatsoever and its no accident that the majority of  ppl you see with high titles always run around in full groups.    And tbh most of em' suck.     But im gettin off track... anyway an aa "fix" is a quick & easy...i dont even wanna call it a solution because nothin is gonna change in the way of the "poor new subcribers" that just joined the PvP server and have no chance because the "evil twinks"  give them no space to breath.     </p><p>  Numbers make that a reality far more than aa amount at any level.     For the real pvp'rs who arent scared to solo...AA's can be an equalizer cuz you can bet your azz they'll get jumped by a full group or a x2 quite often. </p><p> Either way i cant say i care too much...im past the point of expecting well thought out changes at every turn.</p><p>     Marius Darkchyld ~ Retired 70 Defiler</p><p>     Llfe or Death ~ 35 Warden</p><p>     Brainwashed ~ 26 Illusionist                             NAGAFEN</p><p>        </p>

ladyvengeance
06-21-2007, 03:22 AM
<p>I'm sure there are level 20s with 100 aa, or at least close to that. What I'm about to tell you I heard from someone else, so I can't verify if it's true. Basically, last December SOE put in a Christmas area. I forget what it was called. But anyway, there was a quest in there that gave a lot of aa.......and it was repeatable. So you go in there with max xp debt and just keep doing the quest. You probably won't get to 100, but you'll definitely get a lot of aa. Also, there are a few exploits that I won't post about in fear of them being nerfed, plus killing named with guildies. Killing epic named also gives you a ton of aa. </p><p>Oh, and I'm a lvl 20 and I've hit my cap of 30 aa no problem. You just have to know which quests give aa, and kill a bunch of named. Sorted.</p>

Eluzay
06-21-2007, 03:44 AM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>I think it's worth noting that the second I dinged 10 on an alt in Darklight, I was promptly attacked by a 14 swashbuckler on a mount with lung reversal... in fencer stance.</p><p>know how many AAs it takes to have that?  do the math.</p><p>Also, what's up with the lying populace of the level lockers saying that the majority of them only fight the good fights.  Check the screenshots I have if you want I'll post them of not 1 x2, but TWO x2s of level locked nubs at the Fair in Darklight wood camping anyone that dings 10.</p><p>pretty pathetic.  i'm glad they're nerfing the locks a little, they should do more tbh.</p></blockquote> /golfclap >you have gained 3426 ssslick faction

MalkorGodchyld
06-21-2007, 03:48 AM
<p> Umm....no.     There's no lvl 20 with 100 aa.    Stop believing everything u hear imo.       The Candy cane game gave alot of aa if u played it around the clock but eventually you got diminishing returns.      The other ways of gettin aa aren't that big of a secret really.    You just need the time or the right help to do it.      Also after this change all the little aa secrets are gonna mean didley squat because of the cap.    So...no need to be in fear of a nerf.</p><p> Marius Darkchyld ~ Retired 70 Defiler</p><p> Llfe or Death ~ 35 Warden</p><p> Brainwashed ~ 26 Illusionist</p>

CresentBlade
06-21-2007, 03:50 AM
<cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Its easy to find toons at 15 with 25+ aa points. easy. 17s with 30 are common enough.</p></blockquote>Very easy. I know couple of 20s with 40+ AA

CresentBlade
06-21-2007, 03:51 AM
<cite>HerbertWalker wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>38 wiz with 65aa  (8 over the max)</p><p>If in favor of a 1.5x cap, you are making the judgement that my 38 wizard is exactly 8AA too powerful.</p><p>Take away those 8AA, and then all is fair?</p><p>That makes no sense, and everyone knows it.</p></blockquote>Whats the big deal then if 8aa is nothing then you shouldnt miss them.

Norrsken
06-21-2007, 07:30 AM
<cite>CresentBlade wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Its easy to find toons at 15 with 25+ aa points. easy. 17s with 30 are common enough.</p></blockquote>Very easy. I know couple of 20s with 40+ AA </blockquote>Basically all the 25-30 in shadow lords have 35-40ish aas. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Yage
06-21-2007, 09:22 AM
this is a weak weak fix to locking.   If xp was forced for pvp kills, they would level aster than you think!  In the beginings of the server, i had 4 or 5 guildies who hit the 50's with under 100 NPC kills.  Each had close to 3000 pvp kills though and leveled strictly off pvp!  Would fix everything.  If you want content go blue, if you want pvp, unlock and step up your game!

ladyvengeance
06-21-2007, 12:07 PM
Geez not the locking issue again. Look, the developers will NEVER take away level locking. NEVER. There are too many of us who love it and would quit without it. If you don't like it, then go and play WoW.

Raidyen
06-21-2007, 01:47 PM
<p>I think we can all agree that a level 20 that has some help can get 50 or so AA's.  Thats fine, i wont dispute that, because i can now see how its possible.  So right now, with the 1.5 fix, a level 20 with 50 aa's are going to go to 30 aa's.  Exactly how is that going to prevent your undergeared level 16 with 15 AA's from getting smoked?  Answer, its not.  Wizard/warlocks can still get manashield at level 17.  Rangers/assasins can still get that knockback blurr vision bow shot, Swashies/brigs still going to get sailwind, Druids still getting infusion.  This game is no where near balanced in the low levels for pvp, and 1.5 is going to change very very little, and thats my problem.  If Sony wants to truely fix the low level pvp, then fix it.  Dont let these fixes trickle up to the mid and high levels and effect our gameplay.  No reason at all a level 60 shouldnt be able to get 4 final abilities if they earned the AA's.  Its already a bloodbath if you are level 60-65 just about anywhere you go.</p><p>Perhaps a level restriction on the AA's would be a better way to fix it.  If somebody wants 50 aa's by level 20 fine, but limit them to the lower end AA's.  Dont let them get those final's that can be pretty devistating at level 20.</p>

tiredang
06-21-2007, 07:00 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>I think it's worth noting that the second I dinged 10 on an alt in Darklight, I was promptly attacked by a 14 swashbuckler on a mount with lung reversal... in fencer stance.</p><p>know how many AAs it takes to have that?  do the math.</p><p>Also, what's up with the lying populace of the level lockers saying that the majority of them only fight the good fights.  Check the screenshots I have if you want I'll post them of not 1 x2, but TWO x2s of level locked nubs at the Fair in Darklight wood camping anyone that dings 10.</p><p>pretty pathetic.  i'm glad they're nerfing the locks a little, they should do more tbh.</p></blockquote>Heh, just because some do it doesn't mean most do it.  I personally had fun last time I logged on with my group wiping out those pesky raids.  And I bet those 10s - 14s who were being victimized were glad that their faction had twinks too <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

tiredang
06-21-2007, 07:02 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><cite>CresentBlade wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Its easy to find toons at 15 with 25+ aa points. easy. 17s with 30 are common enough.</p></blockquote>Very easy. I know couple of 20s with 40+ AA </blockquote>Basically all the 25-30 in shadow lords have 35-40ish aas. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote>I have 34 at 21.  Defiler aas.  Very woo woo woo.

tiredang
06-21-2007, 07:04 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>I think we can all agree that a level 20 that has some help can get 50 or so AA's.  Thats fine, i wont dispute that, because i can now see how its possible.  So right now, with the 1.5 fix, a level 20 with 50 aa's are going to go to 30 aa's.  Exactly how is that going to prevent your undergeared level 16 with 15 AA's from getting smoked?  Answer, its not.  Wizard/warlocks can still get manashield at level 17.  Rangers/assasins can still get that knockback blurr vision bow shot, Swashies/brigs still going to get sailwind, Druids still getting infusion.  This game is no where near balanced in the low levels for pvp, and 1.5 is going to change very very little, and thats my problem.  If Sony wants to truely fix the low level pvp, then fix it.  Dont let these fixes trickle up to the mid and high levels and effect our gameplay.  No reason at all a level 60 shouldnt be able to get 4 final abilities if they earned the AA's.  Its already a bloodbath if you are level 60-65 just about anywhere you go.</p><p>Perhaps a level restriction on the AA's would be a better way to fix it.  If somebody wants 50 aa's by level 20 fine, but limit them to the lower end AA's.  Dont let them get those final's that can be pretty devistating at level 20.</p></blockquote>IOW, nerf the tiers I'm NOT in, but leave MINE alone! Edit: I don't understand why people just dont' get that the ganking is everywhere; it's just easier to find in lower tiers because there are fewer zones.

silentpsycho
06-21-2007, 07:11 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>I think it's worth noting that the second I dinged 10 on an alt in Darklight, I was promptly attacked by a 14 swashbuckler on a mount with lung reversal... in fencer stance.</p><p>know how many AAs it takes to have that?  do the math.</p><p>Also, what's up with the lying populace of the level lockers saying that the majority of them only fight the good fights.  Check the screenshots I have if you want I'll post them of not 1 x2, but TWO x2s of level locked nubs at the Fair in Darklight wood camping anyone that dings 10.</p><p>pretty pathetic.  i'm glad they're nerfing the locks a little, they should do more tbh.</p></blockquote>This would be, um, 23 AA's (correct me if my math is wrong). At 14, that's only 2 above the cap.  This will not help your nub much, tbh.

DudeMan
06-21-2007, 11:00 PM
<p>My lvl-locked PvP toon is lvl 17.9 with 25 AAs atm.  I did this exclusively with quests (with debt and locked at 10) and killing nameds in the T2 zones only.  My twink hasn't even seen a higher tier zone other than the docks or spires on the way to the other factions T2areas.  I also have about 4 item discovers but nothing that is going to throw off the numbers...</p><p>Few points I'd like to make.</p><p>1.  The gank squad grp/raid vs. the solo/small grp is absolutely the biggest problem in PvP.  If a grp of high teens can bring down a player twice their level then you can only imagine what a group of players conning higher would do...  Fix this and a lot of the crying will stop.  $100 on it...</p><p>2.  The only way a lvl 20 could have more than 3 or 4 AAs per level (post level 10) is to have higher levels kill red Nameds and to a lesser extend dsco AA.  The down side of this practice is that it leaves less to do in the later levels, if one cares about that...  </p><p>3.  Why do we need to force people to level?  So the new players can die at level 20 instead of level 10?  As long as people have more than 1 character per account per PvP server and the plat selling continues, there will be twinks.  To make matters worse, even 100 AAs and fully Fabled gear at lvl 20 won't help you against a full grp of MC/Adept 3 geared players.</p><p>4.Having said all that, a 1.5 cap on AAs won't even be an issue if they do away with locking and debt.  If it takes every loop hole available just to get 3-4 AAs per level, then characters will level so fast that they will be lucky to get 2 AAs per level (and it gets even harder to get AA as you get into the higher levels).  So what's gonna happen when we are all lvl 70 with 90 AAs...?  Are we gonna have to grind the last 10 points (oh what joy... =/)?  Are we gonna be forced to mentor down and then get slaughtered when that gank squad rolls by and we just have to stand there?  </p><p>While I'm not really against the 1.5 cap, something tells me this really needs to be thought out a little more...</p>

Cyst
06-22-2007, 01:55 AM
<p>At 58, I'm right at the cap for AAs with 87 and I rushed through at least 8 levels of my life.</p><p>Post 50 there shouldn't be a cap on AAs because players with 100AAs hitting level 60 will better compete with level 70s with 100AAs and full Fabled PvP gear. The 1.5 cap is going to hurt the first four levels you become open game to level 70s.</p>

hangingout77
06-24-2007, 03:20 AM
<p>Ok i have a few thoughts on the 1.5 aa. 1ST since eof came out and people could get a lot of aa 90% of people are doing quests. the name of the game is ever quest, if the change is made to 1.5 per lvl people will just start grinding to lvl 70 and not doing much along the line of quests again...... lets just change the game name to grind to 70 and raid since that is what the game will become again! sonny wants people to do quests and this was getting people to do quests.   </p><p>  2nt its not a glitch or a cheat any one can do the quests and get the aa, I dont understand why the aa is getting nurfed becouce some people are to lazy to do quests and grind to lvl 40 and have 5 aa points thin cry like a 10 year old becouse thay got stomped by a lvl 28 with 30 aa. i say leave the aa the way it is or at lest do a 2.5 cap, this will make people do quests and in the game more of all zones have bin used since the eof aa.  I do understand the need to keep the game on a fair and even field but killing the aa thing becouse people are lazy and dont do quests.  Insted of nurfing the aa i say we make it so the only way you can lvl is by doing quests.......lets get the game back to what its called ....EVER QUEST!!!!</p>

Shinnar
06-24-2007, 07:00 PM
<cite>hangingout77 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Ok i have a few thoughts on the 1.5 aa. 1ST since eof came out and people could get a lot of aa 90% of people are doing quests. the name of the game is ever quest, if the change is made to 1.5 per lvl people will just start grinding to lvl 70 and not doing much along the line of quests again...... lets just change the game name to grind to 70 and raid since that is what the game will become again! sonny wants people to do quests and this was getting people to do quests.   </p><p>  2nt its not a glitch or a cheat any one can do the quests and get the aa, I dont understand why the aa is getting nurfed becouce some people are to lazy to do quests and grind to lvl 40 and have 5 aa points thin cry like a 10 year old becouse thay got stomped by a lvl 28 with 30 aa. i say leave the aa the way it is or at lest do a 2.5 cap, this will make people do quests and in the game more of all zones have bin used since the eof aa.  I do understand the need to keep the game on a fair and even field but killing the aa thing becouse people are lazy and dont do quests.  Insted of nurfing the aa i say we make it so the only way you can lvl is by doing quests.......lets get the game back to what its called ....EVER QUEST!!!!</p></blockquote><p>Yep. You are right.  With my first char i leveled to 56 in few weeks. Most of time PVEd with friends from old guild.  Got some 8 AAs, did some 50 quests, some 300 pvp kills (in that times i didnt even fought with greens, because i considered them too easy(unless they engaged first of course <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />). Always LOLed when i got owned by those lev 70s in croc caves and every 15 minutes had  some, now well know assassins/(or used-to-be-assassins), on track. (I.e. assassinate and evac were up). </p><p>But once i saw fellow Q (low level) with pvp gear. I asked, [I cannot control my vocabulary] is that?  Then i thought little bit - didnt i miss anything? So I created a new alt, concentrated more on PVP, locked combat exp of course. Did some 1000 kills, so i was able to buy that PVP equip. </p><p>Then was that change with AAs (faster gain), so when i discovered that same levels have 5x more AAs then me, I didnt start to cry like others. I made a new toon in Freeport (Q had more players because of that new Fae race). No support, no cheating, no plat buying, no exp debting... </p><p>So now i am 42 with some 74 AAs, 99% of time solo, combat exp disabled from level 10. Did over 600 quests (Everquest is this game, isnt it), camped named for masters, spent I dont know how many hours/days/weeks of harvesting for rares. And because of that, I am considered the BAD one, twink, level locker that used 'broken' system to be better that others. That noob, who hides in lower tiers so those ONLY-GOOD-PLAYERS on lev 70 cant kill me. Yes and who is ganking poor newbies in treasured gear. </p><p>Yes it took moths to get to 42 and it will take some time to get to 70, but what? Should everyone powerlevel to 70 and there start raiding to be good? If so, why arent you playing on PVE server? </p><p>Lol, people you are really noobs, what should i say else....</p><p>About that 1,5 AA per level. If you mean that this will balance low level ganking, then you dont have brain. This will not change a [I cannot control my vocabulary], it wil only [Removed for Content] a majority of people. But again, if they implement it, i will adapt. No biggie for me. But i would really like to see some more reasonable change (like that (lev-9)*2)...</p><p>For all - this game has 70 levels. That doesnt mean that everything before that lev 70 is crap. Just enjoy all zones, all tiers, lock your combat exp and stop crying.....</p>

tiredang
06-24-2007, 07:16 PM
<cite>Shinnar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>hangingout77 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Ok i have a few thoughts on the 1.5 aa. 1ST since eof came out and people could get a lot of aa 90% of people are doing quests. the name of the game is ever quest, if the change is made to 1.5 per lvl people will just start grinding to lvl 70 and not doing much along the line of quests again...... lets just change the game name to grind to 70 and raid since that is what the game will become again! sonny wants people to do quests and this was getting people to do quests.   </p><p>  2nt its not a glitch or a cheat any one can do the quests and get the aa, I dont understand why the aa is getting nurfed becouce some people are to lazy to do quests and grind to lvl 40 and have 5 aa points thin cry like a 10 year old becouse thay got stomped by a lvl 28 with 30 aa. i say leave the aa the way it is or at lest do a 2.5 cap, this will make people do quests and in the game more of all zones have bin used since the eof aa.  I do understand the need to keep the game on a fair and even field but killing the aa thing becouse people are lazy and dont do quests.  Insted of nurfing the aa i say we make it so the only way you can lvl is by doing quests.......lets get the game back to what its called ....EVER QUEST!!!!</p></blockquote><p>Yep. You are right.  With my first char i leveled to 56 in few weeks. Most of time PVEd with friends from old guild.  Got some 8 AAs, did some 50 quests, some 300 pvp kills (in that times i didnt even fought with greens, because i considered them too easy(unless they engaged first of course <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />). Always LOLed when i got owned by those lev 70s in croc caves and every 15 minutes had  some, now well know assassins/(or used-to-be-assassins), on track. (I.e. assassinate and evac were up). </p><p>But once i saw fellow Q (low level) with pvp gear. I asked, [I cannot control my vocabulary] is that?  Then i thought little bit - didnt i miss anything? So I created a new alt, concentrated more on PVP, locked combat exp of course. Did some 1000 kills, so i was able to buy that PVP equip. </p><p>Then was that change with AAs (faster gain), so when i discovered that same levels have 5x more AAs then me, I didnt start to cry like others. I made a new toon in Freeport (Q had more players because of that new Fae race). No support, no cheating, no plat buying, no exp debting... </p><p>So now i am 42 with some 74 AAs, 99% of time solo, combat exp disabled from level 10. Did over 600 quests (Everquest is this game, isnt it), camped named for masters, spent I dont know how many hours/days/weeks of harvesting for rares. And because of that, I am considered the BAD one, twink, level locker that used 'broken' system to be better that others. That noob, who hides in lower tiers so those ONLY-GOOD-PLAYERS on lev 70 cant kill me. Yes and who is ganking poor newbies in treasured gear. </p><p>Yes it took moths to get to 42 and it will take some time to get to 70, but what? Should everyone powerlevel to 70 and there start raiding to be good? If so, why arent you playing on PVE server? </p><p>Lol, people you are really noobs, what should i say else....</p><p>About that 1,5 AA per level. If you mean that this will balance low level ganking, then you dont have brain. This will not change a [I cannot control my vocabulary], it wil only [Removed for Content] a majority of people. But again, if they implement it, i will adapt. No biggie for me. But i would really like to see some more reasonable change (like that (lev-9)*2)...</p><p>For all - this game has 70 levels. That doesnt mean that everything before that lev 70 is crap. Just enjoy all zones, all tiers, lock your combat exp and stop crying.....</p></blockquote><p>I agree so much.  I leveled Jaided to 70 in less than a month. Then another couple weeks to get 50aa.  I was at 100 aa a month after EoF came out.  I did so much questing after EoF came out just because it was new and different, and also a great way to get aa.  On Angelyc, I turned off exp, and have been questing up.  I have seen more of the game than I ever have before, even on PvE, and am enjoying every quest, every shiny, and these camps and quests that would be boring on a pve server are exciting because you never know WHO is going to come try and kill you.  Plus I've learned the value of having a team you can trust, who has your back. And I've gotten to know many qs as well, and know who gives a good fight, and who doesn't, and I think quite a few know me as well.</p><p>It's a lot more fun just questing up.  And with or without an aa cap, I'll still be questing.  I just won't be spending money on L&L pieces.  I'm looking forward to epic fights in RoV, RE, CT . . . before I just got ganked there.  Now when the gankers come, when the farmers come, etc., I'll be able to hold my own.  If everyone rushed to 70, there just wouldn't be that fun while leveling.  I wish more people would slow down their leveling and enjoy ALL tiers. </p>

Orthureon
06-25-2007, 12:34 AM
<p>You know even if they simply made it 2 AAs per level that would make most people happy I would presume. I mean being able to have 100 AAs at level 50 is something people SHOULD be able to do. And at lower tiers it is still not overpowering. With the upcoming experience debt removal, it will make people at lower levels with TONS of AAs a lot less common.</p><p> I still don't understand why people are complaining about people having too many AAs. Seen as how everyone can get them, it is not class specific. Some classes need them more than others that is true. But even a "noob" has the same opportunity to get them, they may actually have to learn the game. But I mean the game is not overly complex, if they simply spent a day or two reading forums to learn it would make their lives so much easier.</p>

Raidyen
06-25-2007, 05:14 PM
<p>Some great points are made here.  I am still waiting for someone that is For the 1.5 cap to explain how its going to make thier gaming experience better.  And dont give me the line that its going to allow your un twinked level 15 toon to stand a chance, because it wont.  Your getting ganked and killed now, that is going to continue.</p><p>I do think the 2 aa's a level (or even the level9/ 2*lvl mentioned earlier) would be an ok compromise, it would allow most of us that like to shut of our combat exps, and only level up on quests to maintain our AA's all the way up to the high levels.  To be honest, at level 20 there is not much difference between 30 and 40 AA's.  However in the high levels, if a level 60 cant be at 100aa's and have the ability to have 4 final aa abilites, that is a big deal.  Its hard enough to level in T7 being live to all toons, but now we have to do it out geared (70's have access to gear that makes level 60 Fabled gear look like treasured), out level'd, and now out AA'd.  If you all think its bad in the teens, a Tier that takes no more then 4 to 6 hours to get through, try leveling 60-70.  Look for your group of 3 to get ganked by single rogues or warlocks, or try hunting in zones where anyone any level can attack you, not to mention the swarms of lower level groups that will kill you just to get those treasured level 60 carnage insignia's.  None of this 4 levels, its 10 levels all the way.  Oh and no higher level tweaks around to come rescue you, its just you, and whatever close friends you have with you.</p><p>Im not trying to sound like a whiner, and if these changes go in, ill deal, and get myself level'd, mostly in Instances, but the point is i shouldnt have to.  My level 58 character SHOULD NOT be affected by a nerf that is intended for T2.</p>

Slaren
06-25-2007, 10:53 PM
So many good points on the last page of this thread. I, too, enjoy leveling from experience alone and have been locked since level 10. I am level 41 and have 69 AA's by doing well over 600 quests. I am clearly going to have to pay during this next LU if they implement the 1.5x AA rule (At 41 I will lose 8 AA's). Will losing 8 AA result in more deaths for me? I have no idea, but I assure you that I die plently already with the full 69 now. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Maybe they should consider making AA exp slower if they wanna slow folks down. Even just using quest exp to level and get AA has resulted in me deleting quests from the quest journal cause they grey out. My proposed answer for dealing with the T2 gankfest is to give exp for PVP kills and adjust the faction required to get PVP gear to something more realistic. The exp per PVP kill can be a static amount, which will level peeps through tier 2 relatively quickly and it will appear to be less and less through Tier 7. I do understand SOE's desire to try and attract more folks to the game by improving new peeps chances in the early game but even with new rules it will prove difficult. I am confident that SOE will do fine with the next patch, but would still like to hear a sensible explanation to the AA cap of 1.5. I don't think its going to help the new population one tiny bit and making me wait until level 67 to hit 100 AA is a bit ridiculous in my opinion.

Fleaba
06-27-2007, 06:10 AM
<p><span style="font-size: medium"><span style="color: #cc0000">At 80 aa the Candy Cane quest was giving my monk roughly 15% aa per run, and fully repeatable.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: x-small"><span style="color: #ffffff">The PvP gear isn't all that...trust me, I have everything I could possibly buy for my swashy and yes I do use it via macro'd resist specific set ups, but the majority of the time I'm wearing other gear. I use more quested gear in my resist set ups then I do the pvp stuff to be honest at lvl 37. At the moment I wear a full set of Deathfist crafted armor cuz it rocks!!!</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: x-small"><span style="color: #ffffff">I started my pvp toon well after the Candy Cane quest and know that if I had been allowed to do it like a lot of the "twinks" out there I'd be a force to be reckoned with, even with 60 aa via the locked and quested method at lvl 37 there are no average players I can't beat one on one......unless Harmtouch is up. LOL </span></span></p>