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View Full Version : So, when is perma immunity being removed?


Lowell_high
06-18-2007, 05:25 PM
<p>Honestly, why are players able to <i>control </i>their own immunity?  Having Immunity with PVP is an oxymoron.  Why would you have immunity if you have PVP?  The less immunity the more PVP, and isn't that why we are all here?  If you die and want immunity then <b>stay dead.  </b>That should be your <b>only </b>option.  If you die, then you should better get the hell out of the zone, if you can't handle the heat then get out of the kitchen.  </p><p>Its stupid to allow players to sit free of danger in every single zone in this game.  Cities should be the only place a player is free of danger, once you step foot outside it should be every man for himself.  </p><p>Who cares if you can't rebuff in time, you shouldn't be allowed too.  Why do you want to rebuff?  So you can get the upper hand on the player that just killed you, right?  You should of been ready the first time around, you don't have the upper hand anymore, you gave it up - you had the chance and your carelessness lost it.  You should have to run and hide to rebuff, you should feel unsafe and scared.  This is what PVP is about, the rush and the adrenaline.</p><p>There is no rush anymore, players can click one button and be free of harm leaving the hunters upset and disgruntled.  Please re think and re do the immunity system, hopefully one that allows us to fight one another.  Make this game fun again. =(</p>

eu
06-18-2007, 07:30 PM
<p>After reviving or evacing you should have enough time to </p><p>1 rebuff but not really loose rez sickness</p><p>2 gate so as not to get griefed</p>

Qanil
06-18-2007, 07:37 PM
<p>like i said earlier in a different post.  I'm fine with a long immunity timer like 60 or 90 seconds for someone that died, they can buff have some time to talk about what happened, but when that timer is up, they are done.</p><p>Evac should get you like 30 seconds and then you gotta leave... it shouldn't be a "I'm touching safe, you can't get me"</p>

dr4gonUK
06-18-2007, 07:44 PM
<p>Considering eq2pvp started with no perm immunity, only being introduced after all the carebears whined on this forum, theres zero chance of them removing perm immunity imho.</p>

Image_Vain
06-18-2007, 07:49 PM
PI  stays

eu
06-18-2007, 08:03 PM
I am almost even fine with a 5 minute timer just not permanent immunity.

Ikuri
06-18-2007, 08:04 PM
<p><i>the perma immunity rule after evacing is BS. It is BS after death too. </i></p><p><i>For the longest imen we didn't have it and pvp was fine. People campign revive points ? 99% of revive points were close to a griffon or zone line or a cloud station. Your 30seconds immunity was enough to get you there. </i></p><p><i>With the current immunity rules you get people sit in immunity watch the fight ..as soon as a side is about to lsoe they drop immunity, kill get infamy evac back to immunity. </i></p><p><i>I totally agree with the OP, it is BS it should be removed. </i></p>

Cyst
06-18-2007, 11:38 PM
<p>Don't fight around evac points.</p><p>I bet many of you are irritated with Yiannit, Gabriel, You've pulling that nonsense at the SS docks with the immunity bug Exiles get.</p>

silentpsycho
06-18-2007, 11:50 PM
<cite>euar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>After reviving or evacing you should have enough time to </p><p>1 rebuff but not really loose rez sickness</p><p>2 gate so as not to get griefed</p></blockquote> At a minimum, I'd add 3. get back to full health/mana.  I, for one, am not bothered by the revive immunity at all.  It only thwarts people who are into cheap revive ganking.   Yeah, sure, it can be frustrating when the only opposition you can see by the dock/bell/whatever you are camping is perma-immune.  Try moving into the zone a bit, they *are* out there, you just have to find them.

greploco
06-18-2007, 11:59 PM
<p>what a terrible idea, what kind of sense does that make?  you can spawn kill people?</p><p>that only improves the game experience for one person, the weenie that thinks spawn killing is cool, fun, and likes to do it over and over again</p><p>that's not a game I'd like to play, and I bet a ton of people would agree with me</p>

silentpsycho
06-19-2007, 12:33 AM
<cite>greploco wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>what a terrible idea, what kind of sense does that make?  you can spawn kill people?</p><p>that only improves the game experience for one person, the weenie that thinks spawn killing is cool, fun, and likes to do it over and over again</p><p>that's not a game I'd like to play, and I bet a ton of people would agree with me</p></blockquote>Yeah, they do.  Thats why you can sometimes get immunity on revive now.

Qanil
06-19-2007, 01:11 PM
<p>nobody is asking to camp a revive point.  A long timer.. shoot 2 minutes would be better than nothing.  2 minutes is long enough to get FAAR faaar away from a revive point.</p><p>When some of you "graduate" up to some of the T7 zones you'll see EXACTLY why we want this changed in SOME way.  Until then, have fun at the griff tower in Antonica.</p>

jam3
06-19-2007, 01:46 PM
I would like atleast a 3minute immunity timer then or something.. my conjuror has 9 or so buffs to cast that i cant do while im moving..unlike scouts.

rvbarton
06-19-2007, 01:48 PM
<p>bring back bind respawns, like in EQ1.  If you die, you go to your bind spot.</p><p> That will fix this problem.  if you bind in a spot where you can get ganked, it's no one's fault but your own.</p><p> Problem solved.</p>

Bloodfa
06-19-2007, 02:16 PM
Agreed.  Perma-immunity is a waste, and makes zero sense.  2 minutes to allow for rebuff & regroup, or rebuff & CoQ would be more than ample time.

Lowell_high
06-19-2007, 05:29 PM
Personally, I would love to see pvp death resulting in being sent to your bind point.  It would make res spells actually useful and it would be a solution to so many problems. Zerging, immunity, etc

eu
06-19-2007, 06:27 PM
<p>What about making it a 3 minute timer that is 100% unbreakable meaning</p><p>For this argument you have 3 minutes to decide if you want to stay in zone or not.</p><p>For the zerging argument you cant hit a mob to break immunity or re-engage and zerg if you just died even if your group is still in combat with whoever just killed you.</p><p> My only concern with this is can the mechanics support it? Can you make it where if you get attacked by a mob you can defend yourself without breaking your PVP immunity? And can you rebuff without breaking immunity or make it where you just cant cast group buffs while your party is still in combat?</p>

Amphibia
06-19-2007, 06:40 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>Honestly, why are players able to <i>control </i>their own immunity?  Having Immunity with PVP is an oxymoron.  Why would you have immunity if you have PVP?  The less immunity the more PVP, and isn't that why we are all here?  If you die and want immunity then <b>stay dead.  </b>That should be your <b>only </b>option.  If you die, then you should better get the hell out of the zone, if you can't handle the heat then get out of the kitchen.  </p><p>Its stupid to allow players to sit free of danger in every single zone in this game.  Cities should be the only place a player is free of danger, once you step foot outside it should be every man for himself.  </p><p>Who cares if you can't rebuff in time, you shouldn't be allowed too.  Why do you want to rebuff?  So you can get the upper hand on the player that just killed you, right?  You should of been ready the first time around, you don't have the upper hand anymore, you gave it up - you had the chance and your carelessness lost it.  You should have to run and hide to rebuff, you should feel unsafe and scared.  This is what PVP is about, the rush and the adrenaline.</p><p>There is no rush anymore, players can click one button and be free of harm leaving the hunters upset and disgruntled.  Please re think and re do the immunity system, hopefully one that allows us to fight one another.  Make this game fun again. =(</p></blockquote> I agree with most of this. Perma immunity needs to go, both after evac and revival. But a 30 seconds countdown wouldn't hurt, though. This is exactly how it used to be before they decided to carebear it down completely. And whats up with the safe docks? No need for that either, do you ask me....

treyy
06-20-2007, 06:56 PM
With the no zoning rule in place, permanent immunity needs to be removed. Players should be able to control zones again, not stand around watching the only fight theyve seen in hours go afk in a contested zone. Players should be given enough time to buff and zone. After evacing players should be given at most 10 seconds of immunity. By controlling or zone or griefing a group of people you either: a) force them to leave and possibly get hunted or b) force them to get more people to in turn clear you out of the zone or grief you back. The latter is what made pvp so good when the servers first went live. Factions organized to assist one another and massive battles ensued. The implementation of permanent immunity onto the pvp servers nearly killed them. With several very good recent changes being made, this would be a good time to ENCOURAGE pvp again, instead of supplying just another way for people to avoid it.

jaff247
06-20-2007, 06:56 PM
perma immunity takes away zone control, isnt that the whole point of pvp? not standing on bar until enough other people of your own faction run by so you can tag a level 7 mob to instantly break it and then aoe for fame, then evac again and sit in perma immunity again. the worst thing ive seen with perma immunity is watching guilds standing with it outside of Sol Eye, , an x4 of them, preparing to break and then with timers counting down run to the avatar to try and wipe people doing contested mobs on a pvp server. There was an entire other raid force their to guard the ones at the avatar, but we can only stand and watch everyone zone thru and ready up, to run thru us immune all the way to the people actually fighting the mob. I cant understand anyone agreeing thats how pvp should be.

Lowell_high
06-20-2007, 07:04 PM
What I don't understand is when I was accepted into EOF Beta with Havoc and only a few Talisman to feedback and discuss PVP, I started many threads including one large post about the biggest issues in regards to PVP.  Everyone discussed and put their own input into the thread which was paged long, one of the biggest concerns was Immunity and Res zerging and I can't remember one response ever suggesting some type of Permanent Immunity - yet Archonix (who was in charge of PVP at the time) acknowledged the problem but implemented one of the worst ideas.  It was like he noticed there was a concern with Immunity but failed to read any of the really good suggestions and valid points from the community.  This being the community who was there to provide feedback for him, our voices werent even heard.  He saw there was a problem with immunity - ignored the community - and implemented his own idea.

orehn
06-20-2007, 07:08 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>Personally, I would love to see pvp death resulting in being sent to your bind point.  It would make res spells actually useful and it would be a solution to so many problems. Zerging, immunity, etc</blockquote>I support this 100%, even if it means I'll have a ton of running to do.  Zone control is what made PvP in EQ1 great, I would love to see some measure of that here.

MistrNole
06-20-2007, 07:11 PM
I don't so much have a problem with people having perma immunity after they die, but <b>after</b> they evac is what gets me. Breaking immunity with mobs so you can pick a time to engage = lame. Can't say I haven't done it but it's still lame. But ya, your right Jubs, there was tons of good suggestions when we were discussing Immunity and Rez Zerging issues (mainly due to hurricanus at the time), but nothing was really put in to stop it. If nothing else, they made it worse imo. Zomg plzzz no bind point...Plzzzz plz plz plz, VG made me cry IRL.

Lowell_high
06-20-2007, 07:19 PM
its much easier to travel in eq2 than it is vanguard =p

MistrNole
06-20-2007, 07:23 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>its much easier to travel in eq2 than it is vanguard =p</blockquote> Heh true enough. And my comp handles EQ2 a bit better than VG lol. Dying in VG was asking for a reboot.

orehn
06-20-2007, 07:29 PM
I would love to see immunity changed in some way-the old system wasn't that bad, though I must admit the occasional "evac-to-immunity-while-I-do-laundry" is definitely not on my "must fix" list. =D Speaking of laundry.../afk

Killque
06-20-2007, 07:51 PM
<p>Here is how PvP currently is in my experience</p><p>Where does 90% of PvP take place (in my experience).</p><ul><li>Docks (TS, EL, Nek etc)</li><li>WFP Gate, NQ Gate</li><li>Griff Towers (TS Grif in Ant, NQ Grif, FP Grif, Nek Grif Etc)</li><li>Cloud Platforms (WW, TT etc)</li><li>Zone Lines </li></ul><p>Where do I go to find PvP</p><ul><li>All of the above List</li><li>Center of Steamfont</li><li>OOLS (botters)</li><li>Everfrost (botters, that lag hack)</li></ul><p>I much prefer the PvP battles in places like Steamfont, OOLS and Everfrost, not because they are botters, but because its like acutal PvP. Some of the experience is lost when your 10 feet from a griff, or zone line or immunity dock.</p><p>Sure, there is some skill involved in trying to lure some dumb [Removed for Content] or group off the dock or out of immunity, but it should just not be needed.</p><p>There needs to be a method put in place to deversivy where PvP takes place as it seems to be pigeon holed into specific areas (namely escape routes). Never has there been so much pvp around these areas.</p><p>Anyone remember fighting as much as they did at the TS docks before the immunity patch??? Hell, I dont, I remember being able to go from CL to Ant via foot and not see anyone via the Griff/Zone Dock path. Everyone was out in the world, exploring, pvping etc. Now its all about the docks and zones... and it cheapens my experience of the game. Sure I still play, we all do, but that doesnt mean it cant be better..</p><p>A recent t7 experience</p><p>Group A (4 lvl 70s and a lvl 44) wander over to a revive/Clound point (only place to find real pvp these days). There, stand 10-15 lvl 70s all in immunity. (sure some were afk, but throughout my time there I saw EVERY single person move, so there is no excuse that they "werent there".</p><p>We hang out there for about an hour or more and the only kills we get were bots or 1 v 1 setup fights. No one will leave immunity. We are out numbered over 4 - 1 at one point and still, nothing.</p><p>This is my first experience of t7... and let me tell you, oh so fun.</p><p>What is immunity good for?</p><ul><li>People with slow computers</li><li>Allow people to buff</li><li>Allow people to devise a plan</li><li>Allow people to group safely</li></ul><p>What immunity is used for currently</p><ul><li>The above</li><li>To go to the bathroom/Take a shower/go shopping</li><li>Have their friends/guildies from every corner of Norrath converge on one point when they see someone (unlimited time)</li><li>Taunt players who want to kill them</li></ul><p>Immunity needs to be looked at in some reguard. Sure, I can totaly see the need to buff, call home, maybe organize a quick plan, but to be perma immune is very problematic in many ways.</p><p>If you really need perma immunity the Call ability is avaliable to you once per hour and /camp feature is readily avaliable to all players at any time. </p><p>2-3 Minutes of immunity (or whatever time, as long as it will expire) is not asking too much. It will provide a better playing experience to all players (except those who require to remain at the TS Griff, EL Dock or Cloud Platform for the better part of 6 hours completely immune).</p>

jaff247
06-21-2007, 12:07 PM
with all the pvp tuning going on, i really cannot believe this isnt getting any attention at all.

Bozidar
06-21-2007, 12:12 PM
<p>They should change the docks to non-immune, and put a seperate extention on the docks for those waiting for a boat.  I get it.. folks need to wait for a boat because you wanted to put boats into the game.  /cheer</p><p>But perma-immunity on the docks as soon as you zone in is just silly.  </p><p>How about a seperate boat dock for bells and one for the EoF boats?  Maybe off to the side a ways.. both TS and Nek have room.  Butcherblock doesn't even HAVE bells, so just make the parts of the docks that extend over the water immunity areas, not the whole bloody place.</p><p>Just my 2 cents..</p>

Lowell_high
06-21-2007, 04:54 PM
How about eliminating Bell use and have a boat in EFP, Qeynos Harbor, EL, NEK, TS, ZEK, EF, Feeroott, am I missing any?  Have a ticket master at every dock buy your ticket, wait for the boat in any of these zones, and once you zone you go to where you purchased your ticket for.  And take away perma immunity!

Bozidar
06-21-2007, 05:03 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>How about eliminating Bell use and have a boat in EFP, Qeynos Harbor, EL, NEK, TS, ZEK, EF, Feeroott, am I missing any?  Have a ticket master at every dock buy your ticket, wait for the boat in any of these zones, and once you zone you go to where you purchased your ticket for.  And take away perma immunity!</blockquote> the permaimmunity while waiting for a boat makes sense.  But making the areas so large and near great pvp areas, was a bad idea.

jaff247
06-23-2007, 06:46 AM
erf wrong thread >_<