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View Full Version : A suggestion for the Rangers and others who do not like the PVP changes...


Myxzptlk
06-14-2007, 02:38 PM
<p>I'll start this out by saying that i hope I am not breaking the EULA by suggesting this...if so i will retract my statements. </p><p>I'll continue with saying that what i am suggesting, had it been implemented during the NGE over in SWG, maybe those that loved that game would still be playing right now. </p><p>Let me explain: </p><p>I wonder what would happen if, on patch day or soon thereafter, all those who are in total opposition (i.e. those who feel that these changes, meant to balance, are too imbalancing, too class definition killing, too much, basically) i wonder what would happen if all of them cancelled their accounts. Not quit, mind you....i mean, resubscribe at a later date or whatever if you still want to play the game, are addicted, or what not, but just cancel, let the subscription be in cancellation until your next pay period to send a message. </p><p>LEt me explain why i would suggest this. I played SWG from launch to the NGE, with all the constant balancing/changes/revamps/ what have you, sticking it out up until they released the NGE, at which time i and a lot of the people i'd played with and against realized the the NGE was the death of SWG. I urged my guildemates and such to just cancel, not stand for it. THe vast majority though stuck it out, gave SOE a chance, and then..... quit a few months later, hating SOE and the game they had spent years in love with. I think that had all those opposed to the NGE cancelled their accounts when it hit, there would be no NGE, it would have reverted 'back to the CU or whatever and those who came up with that crap woudl have been fired, reassigned, or just bopped on the head with a "what the f were you thinkin'? "</p><p>Instead, folks stuck it out, with the hope and faith that it would be ok....and then, as i said, quit down the line, but so far down the line that the nge was established, time was invested and there was no turning back. THey quit disgusted, and many told me that they would never play another SOE game and told me i was a fool for playing eq2 because SOE would just muck it up and kill all the time i invested into my characters with another balance (i hope that day isnt today, honestly, though i do feel a little like the "shame on me" guy in the old adage "f me once, shame on you, f me twice, shame on me" about now.)</p><p>ANyway, my suggestion is if you think these changes are unfair, imbalancing, unwarranted, then press cancel for a day, a week, a few weeks, and see what happens. If enough did it, they'd probably scrap this whole balancing, or imbalancing act, and actually put some educated thought into how to make the game better for all classes. </p><p>The problem, though, is that enough people won't do it. We'll stick it out in hopes that it will be ok, and then when it's not it'll be too late and the game will be changed permanently, and FTL. </p><p>Again, i hope this suggestion is not in breach of the EULA, if so i will gladly retract the statement. </p>

tass
06-14-2007, 02:45 PM
hey? what? No im not trying to stop you guys for being [Removed for Content] that you cant stand on that building there and fire like a pansy or run away at 65% speed. Its just....well... Can I kick every 1 of ur [Removed for Content] through the door as you leave? It would really mean alot to me ya know?

Cyst
06-14-2007, 03:17 PM
<p>Tass</p><p>It's people like you who don't understand the dynamics of the game and never will. You make up for your lack of skill with an ever increasing whining. Last night on my level 58 Ranger I NEVER used my two big attacks and in fact melee'd 60% of my fights and guess what? I won as many fights as I normally would have because what makes a Ranger and other scouts good is the initiative. You idiots don't understand how much more beneficial track/stealth are when used properly.</p><p>Until you learn that and how to counter that none of you "nerf scouts" whiners will ever be on an even playing field with us scouts. Funny thing is a scout can play any other class after playing a scout and do better against scouts than you whiners ever will, PERIOD!</p><p>I killed 28 people last night never once using my big attacks and most of the time I melee'd.</p>

dmshortrod
06-14-2007, 03:26 PM
<p> <a href="mailto:[email protected]" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">[email protected]</a> wrote: </p><blockquote><p>I'll start this out by saying that i hope I am not breaking the EULA by suggesting this...if so i will retract my statements. </p><p>I'll continue with saying that what i am suggesting, had it been implemented during the NGE over in SWG, maybe those that loved that game would still be playing right now. </p><p>Let me explain: </p><p>I wonder what would happen if, on patch day or soon thereafter, all those who are in total opposition (i.e. those who feel that these changes, meant to balance, are too imbalancing, too class definition killing, too much, basically) i wonder what would happen if all of them cancelled their accounts. Not quit, mind you....i mean, resubscribe at a later date or whatever if you still want to play the game, are addicted, or what not, but just cancel, let the subscription be in cancellation until your next pay period to send a message. </p><p><span style="color: #ff0000">LEt me explain why i would suggest this. I played SWG from launch to the NGE, with all the constant balancing/changes/revamps/ what have you, sticking it out up until they released the NGE, at which time i and a lot of the people i'd played with and against realized the the NGE was the death of SWG. I urged my guildemates and such to just cancel, not stand for it. THe vast majority though stuck it out, gave SOE a chance, and then..... quit a few months later, hating SOE and the game they had spent years in love with. I think that had all those opposed to the NGE cancelled their accounts when it hit, there would be no NGE, it would have reverted 'back to the CU or whatever and those who came up with that crap woudl have been fired, reassigned, or just bopped on the head with a "what the f were you thinkin'? "</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000">Instead, folks stuck it out, with the hope and faith that it would be ok....and then, as i said, quit down the line, but so far down the line that the nge was established, time was invested and there was no turning back. THey quit disgusted, and many told me that they would never play another SOE game and told me i was a fool for playing eq2 because SOE would just muck it up and kill all the time i invested into my characters with another balance (i hope that day isnt today, honestly, though i do feel a little like the "shame on me" guy in the old adage "f me once, shame on you, f me twice, shame on me" about now.)</span></p><p>ANyway, my suggestion is if you think these changes are unfair, imbalancing, unwarranted, then press cancel for a day, a week, a few weeks, and see what happens. If enough did it, they'd probably scrap this whole balancing, or imbalancing act, and actually put some educated thought into how to make the game better for all classes. </p><p>The problem, though, is that enough people won't do it. We'll stick it out in hopes that it will be ok, and then when it's not it'll be too late and the game will be changed permanently, and FTL. </p><p>Again, i hope this suggestion is not in breach of the EULA, if so i will gladly retract the statement. </p></blockquote><p> Look I know how you fell as well, and I'm sure their are alot of people that think the same as you do as far as the NGE in SWG. I haven't been playing MMO's as much as most people, but I can see when somthing is going bad or makeing a bad thing worse. </p><p>I frist started playing EQ1 about 5 or 6 years ago, the when I heard EQ2 was comeing oit I stoped EQ1 after only 1 year and went to EQ2. I played EQ2 the frist day and played till DoF, and along with DOF were combat change, but not bad. I have some RL friends tell me about SWG!, and I was like wow this is kool I played it for about 8-10 months, just almost had Jedi unlocked, then .....BAM!!!!!!!!!! NGE! Yea well F'that. I did like everyone else did I took it like it was and gave it a try, but it did sux. I cam back to EQ2 PvP on the 1st week the Nagafen server came out. </p><p>With in the frist month BAM! nerf! 2nd month NERF! every GU for over a year now nerf this, nerf that. I might not have to many post under my belt is because it sepent to much time on the SWG forums watching all the carebears crying about every little thing, I knew the same would be on the EQ2 forum. I mean I can handle little nerf here and their. but when its Every patch every week or every GU evry 2 month.something has to give. None of the class are nothing close to what they were when EQ2 came out. "some good, alot bad"</p><p>I fell this is SOE's way of trying to kill PvPY You know sence SOE did state when it frist came out, that it had no plans to have any PvP in EQ2. Just be ready for a few people to Quite, either Quite EQ2 it self, or Quite SOE all together. Might se some people reroll to PvE because thay like the base of the game and don't have to PvP to have fun. Tell you the truth, I might have went to PvE along time ago if SOE would have open server transfer to and from PvP-PvE. Hell I don't care. Take Everything off me and out of my bank. I can replace Items and money.</p>

dmshortrod
06-14-2007, 03:33 PM
<cite>tass wrote:</cite><blockquote><span style="color: #ff0000">hey? what? No im not trying to stop you guys for being [Removed for Content] that you cant stand on that building there and fire like a pansy or run away at 65% speed. Its just....well... Can I kick every 1 of ur [Removed for Content] through the door as you leave? It would really mean alot to me ya know? </span></blockquote>lol your to funny! most of the time I see you funning your little butoff or jumping off a clif. Only time I see you fight is if your in a group ganking....... solo ganking when someone wile is in the middle of killing a mob "distracted", If its a bot that DON"T fight back.....or if you decap is up. That the only time I see you fight. any other time you sit immuned till the time is right.

Badaxe Ba
06-14-2007, 03:36 PM
<p>I too quit SWG because of NGE, unfortunately there were those who were too happy or too stubborn or too addicted to continue.</p><p>My brother left SWG for the same reason, and went to wow, and swore off sony mmorpg's.  I switched to EQ2.  Way before pvp was implemented into the game.  </p><p>As far as the upcoming changes, initiative still counts alot.  I just fought a 70 mystic on test.  First battle he won, and pretty rapidly at that.  I changed my tactics some, and also remembered to apply my poisons (forgot they cancel on respec, I had switched from str/agi to agi/int) and after a very long fight, I had approximately 5% health, but I wasn't able to win IMO until he had totally ran out of power.  If he had a power regen pot, he probably would have beaten me.  Overall, according to my parse, I had done 83k of damage by the time the fight ended.  The mystic had done 17k, which I was only able to overcome thru the use of two regen potions, and vitality breach poison, and used about 6 noxious cures during the fight.  While a mystic excels at wards as obvious from the amount of damage he absorbed, I would actually retreat as far as possible to let my health regen as much as it would, since staying close meant more disease and poison dots.  After the fight, the mystic told me his last cast was a dot instead of a ward, and this might have swung the fight the other way, but the problem with this, is on test, for the most part, people stand back and let you fight without inteference.  There are the occasional idiots who think they are still on live, and proceed to attempt an ambush attack.  Had to use evac twice, when all I had come to do was test the new changes.  I would have gladly let those players test against me if they had just asked.</p><p>One thing I will say, is people better be aware that weapons changes hold some umpleasant surprises in store.  I'm not sure SOE has the bugs worked out on the DW 1-h thing yet, because of one, they are still labelled DW, and two, the damage rating also received a ninja nerf by 6 points as well on DW.  I wasn't able to check 1-h, as I didn't own one yet.</p>

Image_Vain
06-14-2007, 03:54 PM
Sony has great MMO's,  I played SWG and the combat change was the best thing that ever happened to the game. As for class balancing, Sony is trying to "balance" PvP, if this game was kept PvE "LIKE IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN AND WAS MADE FOR PVE NOT PVP" we wouldn't have this problem. I hope every ranger /quites, ranger is such a [Removed for Content] [Removed for Content] class man!

Cyst
06-14-2007, 04:52 PM
<cite>Image_Vain wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sony has great MMO's,  I played SWG and the combat change was the best thing that ever happened to the game. As for class balancing, Sony is trying to "balance" PvP, if this game was kept PvE "LIKE IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN AND WAS MADE FOR PVE NOT PVP" we wouldn't have this problem. I hope every ranger /quites, ranger is such a [I cannot control my vocabulary] [I cannot control my vocabulary] class man! </blockquote><p> Yet the other scouts like Brigand, Assassin, and Swashie are better. /shakes head</p><p>Play a Ranger to even level 30 where they're supposed to be PvP gods in the lower levels, and see how hard it really is to get to bow range, and hope you get off one shot.</p><p>I recently made a Guardian and is level 16, you know those levels everyone is twinked and there are hundreds of gankers. He has won 48 fights and died 11 times. Most those fights won were against those overpowered scouts.</p><p>/shrug After playing a scout I know how to beat them, but I'm sure you and others learn the game, well maybe not.</p>

Elephanton
06-14-2007, 05:21 PM
<cite>Demron wrote:</cite><blockquote>Image_Vain wrote: <p>I recently made a Guardian and is level 16, you know those levels everyone is twinked and there are hundreds of gankers. He has won 48 fights and died 11 times. Most those fights won were against those overpowered scouts.</p><p>/shrug After playing a scout I know how to beat them, but I'm sure you and others learn the game, well maybe not.</p></blockquote><p>LOL exactly same story here for me, I just rolled a guardian twink and leveled him to 15. Having a mix of good EOF gear and legendary, and adept1/3 (no masters) - and totally own scouts. I guess that's true - you just need to play with scout to learn to bit them...</p><p><b><i>Image_Vain wrote: </i></b></p><blockquote>I hope every ranger /quites, ranger is such a [I cannot control my vocabulary] [I cannot control my vocabulary] class man! </blockquote><p>This just made me LOL. Looks like this is exactly what SOE wants - for every ranger to quit... someone is really upset with us up there. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Bawang
06-14-2007, 06:30 PM
<p>I kinda like the response I gave the rangers whining on the other thread:</p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=15&topic_id=366673#4150697" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...=366673#4150697</a></p><p>At any rate, it'd make me ecstatic if all the rangers got up and quit all at once.</p><p>And while we're on the subject, CAN I HAVE YOUR STUFF? <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Luxun
06-14-2007, 06:31 PM
<cite>dmshortrod wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> <a href="mailto:[email protected]" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">[email protected]</a> wrote: </p><blockquote><p>I'll start this out by saying that i hope I am not breaking the EULA by suggesting this...if so i will retract my statements. </p><p>I'll continue with saying that what i am suggesting, had it been implemented during the NGE over in SWG, maybe those that loved that game would still be playing right now. </p><p>Let me explain: </p><p>I wonder what would happen if, on patch day or soon thereafter, all those who are in total opposition (i.e. those who feel that these changes, meant to balance, are too imbalancing, too class definition killing, too much, basically) i wonder what would happen if all of them cancelled their accounts. Not quit, mind you....i mean, resubscribe at a later date or whatever if you still want to play the game, are addicted, or what not, but just cancel, let the subscription be in cancellation until your next pay period to send a message. </p><p><span style="color: #ff0000">LEt me explain why i would suggest this. I played SWG from launch to the NGE, with all the constant balancing/changes/revamps/ what have you, sticking it out up until they released the NGE, at which time i and a lot of the people i'd played with and against realized the the NGE was the death of SWG. I urged my guildemates and such to just cancel, not stand for it. THe vast majority though stuck it out, gave SOE a chance, and then..... quit a few months later, hating SOE and the game they had spent years in love with. I think that had all those opposed to the NGE cancelled their accounts when it hit, there would be no NGE, it would have reverted 'back to the CU or whatever and those who came up with that crap woudl have been fired, reassigned, or just bopped on the head with a "what the f were you thinkin'? "</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000">Instead, folks stuck it out, with the hope and faith that it would be ok....and then, as i said, quit down the line, but so far down the line that the nge was established, time was invested and there was no turning back. THey quit disgusted, and many told me that they would never play another SOE game and told me i was a fool for playing eq2 because SOE would just muck it up and kill all the time i invested into my characters with another balance (i hope that day isnt today, honestly, though i do feel a little like the "shame on me" guy in the old adage "f me once, shame on you, f me twice, shame on me" about now.)</span></p><p>ANyway, my suggestion is if you think these changes are unfair, imbalancing, unwarranted, then press cancel for a day, a week, a few weeks, and see what happens. If enough did it, they'd probably scrap this whole balancing, or imbalancing act, and actually put some educated thought into how to make the game better for all classes. </p><p>The problem, though, is that enough people won't do it. We'll stick it out in hopes that it will be ok, and then when it's not it'll be too late and the game will be changed permanently, and FTL. </p><p>Again, i hope this suggestion is not in breach of the EULA, if so i will gladly retract the statement. </p></blockquote><p> Look I know how you fell as well, and I'm sure their are alot of people that think the same as you do as far as the NGE in SWG. I haven't been playing MMO's as much as most people, but I can see when somthing is going bad or makeing a bad thing worse. </p><p>I frist started playing EQ1 about 5 or 6 years ago, the when I heard EQ2 was comeing oit I stoped EQ1 after only 1 year and went to EQ2. I played EQ2 the frist day and played till DoF, and along with DOF were combat change, but not bad. I have some RL friends tell me about SWG!, and I was like wow this is kool I played it for about 8-10 months, just almost had Jedi unlocked, then .....BAM!!!!!!!!!! NGE! Yea well F'that. I did like everyone else did I took it like it was and gave it a try, but it did sux. I cam back to EQ2 PvP on the 1st week the Nagafen server came out. </p><p>With in the frist month BAM! nerf! 2nd month NERF! every GU for over a year now nerf this, nerf that. I might not have to many post under my belt is because it sepent to much time on the SWG forums watching all the carebears crying about every little thing, I knew the same would be on the EQ2 forum. I mean I can handle little nerf here and their. but when its Every patch every week or every GU evry 2 month.something has to give. None of the class are nothing close to what they were when EQ2 came out. "some good, alot bad"</p><p>I fell this is SOE's way of trying to kill PvPY You know sence SOE did state when it frist came out, that it had no plans to have any PvP in EQ2. Just be ready for a few people to Quite, either Quite EQ2 it self, or Quite SOE all together. Might se some people reroll to PvE because thay like the base of the game and don't have to PvP to have fun. Tell you the truth, I might have went to PvE along time ago if SOE would have open server transfer to and from PvP-PvE. Hell I don't care. Take Everything off me and out of my bank. I can replace Items and money.</p></blockquote> did you HAVE to remind me of SWG and NGE ? <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

HerbertWalker
06-14-2007, 07:49 PM
<p>btw dude, it's</p><p>"fool me once, shame on - shame on you. Fool me - you can't get fooled again."</p>

Armawk
06-14-2007, 09:25 PM
<cite>Demron wrote:</cite><blockquote> You'd be suprised at the number of level 70s I can make flee and I'm only a level 58 Ranger. </blockquote> No we wouldnt. thanks for making the point for everyone.

Orthureon
06-14-2007, 11:57 PM
You know Demron, posts boasting about ones accomplishments on a wide scale can get a class nerfed just as bad as whining. You say at 58 you can make 70s run... you just basically said Rangers are OP there. I don't know of any class that can make a player 12 levels higher run, unless it is a Druid. Especially since 70 is end game level meaning uber gear. Congrats are in order if that is true, but at the same time sometimes holding your tongue is the wiser choice.

EQGu
06-15-2007, 12:09 AM
<p>I welcome the pvp changes with Open arms. hopefully some of the newbs will be weeded out and you will see the swashes with their precious titles show up even less and whither away along with some other classes.</p><p>thx soe =)</p>

Tatate
06-15-2007, 12:10 AM
<p>I have a suggestion...</p><p>Darkfall.</p>

Saintedone
06-15-2007, 04:24 AM
<p>LOL, I was an SWG'r that left after NGE killed it as well....</p><p>I also beta tested this game - was great fun and PVE - but I outgrew non- pvp and was board so i was very inactive in EQ2 untill i heard they were bringin PVP /excited.</p><p>Joined VOX because it was the ultimate exsperiment with an MMO ( IMO ) </p><p>I roled a Wizzy because there a really fun class to play PVE and I assumed it would be a great pvp class..</p><p>Then these forums filled up with NERF THE WIZZIES threads, they started out nerfing our roots, then they hit our evacs and finally our damage. This wasnt bad enough they added resist gear and AA lines that completely neutured our class. Now a wizzy is a joke class in pvp past T5.</p><p>Now the scouts are finally seeing what we went through and none of you said anything while they nerfed the crap out of caster classes, please forgive my tone but you've all had it coming. I have the mighty and all powerful master fuson 1 spell that barely lands 40% of the time if im lucky. You can still do 5-8k damage in pvp in under 10sec so please spare us all. Do what all the casters have done with every nerf learn to adapt and get back out there. I cant ammagine this game without rangers so I for 1 hope this thread goes away. Everytime they nerf a class it hurts the hole pvp game and I'll stand by that till the end but seriously boycots and emty threats are stupid and only server to wreck the comunity your proffessing to.</p><p>Anyway please forgive the spelling its late im sick and on meds, be well all hope your not to discoraged - fight on you have a great class.</p>

Cyst
06-15-2007, 03:48 PM
<cite>Orthureon wrote:</cite><blockquote>You know Demron, posts boasting about ones accomplishments on a wide scale can get a class nerfed just as bad as whining. You say at 58 you can make 70s run... you just basically said Rangers are OP there. I don't know of any class that can make a player 12 levels higher run, unless it is a Druid. Especially since 70 is end game level meaning uber gear. Congrats are in order if that is true, but at the same time sometimes holding your tongue is the wiser choice.</blockquote><p> It has nothing to do with the class, or the player in regards to me. It's that most people are afraid to fight. And because of this they just do not learn how to fight anyone but someone they can blindly beat with no effort at all.</p><p>I will not solo attack a ranked 70 because I know, they've learned how to kill someone. But I rarely lose to an unranked 70 unless it's Iodoza, I think it is how you spell his name. But that wizard is something else. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>But think about it, think about how many people run if they believe they have a chance of losing. I rarely do this and a lot of times I try to take on impossible odds so that I can better learn my character and I've pulled off some impossible and unbelievable feats, most of the time without my two big attacks. For instance running into a full group only to Surveil (quick stealth) and realizing not a single one of them could see stealth, so I took out their caster after stunning their healer. I then proceed to snare their healer and (unranked scout), and lead the tanks far, far away from them so I could wittle away at the tanks health while their unskilled friends walked oh so slowly because they didn't carry potions to cure my two snares.</p><p>That feat should never be possible, and isn't unless you're playing against unskilled players. When I'm fighting I can tell you if I'm fighting someone in Mastercrafted or better gear or in regular looted or craptastic crafted gear. My wife is an armorer, me a weaponsmith and I comment all the time that I can't believe the amount of junk stuff we sell to players knowing they can't compete in that stuff. BUT THEY BUY IT!</p><p>I so want to list all the stuff I use in a PvP setting, but then I really dont want to be teaching the enemy how to live longer, or how to kill.</p>

Magius789
06-15-2007, 09:23 PM
Demron, I know you said you play this game but do you really?  There is no way you ran into a group of people and used your survalence (quick stealth) and they couldn't see you.  I know this because even if you are stealthed or invised once you get close enough to a person, or group, they are able to see you.  The only place you can stealth and stand next to someone and they not see you is the arena.....  So that statement and your ranger's melee is good statement really makes me wonder about you...

Cyst
06-16-2007, 03:40 AM
<cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Demron, I know you said you play this game but do you really?  There is no way you ran into a group of people and used your survalence (quick stealth) and they couldn't see you.  I know this because even if you are stealthed or invised once you get close enough to a person, or group, they are able to see you.  The only place you can stealth and stand next to someone and they not see you is the arena.....  So that statement and your ranger's melee is good statement really makes me wonder about you...</blockquote><p> I never said I was next to them when I stealthed. The range on Surveillance is enormous in comparison to our other abilities. Stealth only works as good as the stealther allows it to work. Had I stealthed and went straight at them I would have been a fool, but instead I stealth and move to the right, or left watching them scatter.</p><p>The range to see an even level character stealthed is something like 30 meters if they're not moving. In some zones with the foilage and depending on where a person has their clip rate at among other graphic changes you can disappear as close as 20 meters on people. The key here is movement.</p><p>But, you dont have to believe me. You can run with me on Venekor if you'd like, out of my group of course because I want to fight 70s on my terms, not theirs.</p><p>If the kill count in your sig is right, I'm level 58 with nearly as many total kills as you.</p>

Daemondred
06-16-2007, 04:00 AM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>I'll start this out by saying that i hope I am not breaking the EULA by suggesting this...if so i will retract my statements. </p><p>I'll continue with saying that what i am suggesting, had it been implemented during the NGE over in SWG, maybe those that loved that game would still be playing right now. </p><p>Let me explain: </p><p>I wonder what would happen if, on patch day or soon thereafter, all those who are in total opposition (i.e. those who feel that these changes, meant to balance, are too imbalancing, too class definition killing, too much, basically) i wonder what would happen if all of them cancelled their accounts. Not quit, mind you....i mean, resubscribe at a later date or whatever if you still want to play the game, are addicted, or what not, but just cancel, let the subscription be in cancellation until your next pay period to send a message. </p><p>LEt me explain why i would suggest this. I played SWG from launch to the NGE, with all the constant balancing/changes/revamps/ what have you, sticking it out up until they released the NGE, at which time i and a lot of the people i'd played with and against realized the the NGE was the death of SWG. I urged my guildemates and such to just cancel, not stand for it. THe vast majority though stuck it out, gave SOE a chance, and then..... quit a few months later, hating SOE and the game they had spent years in love with. I think that had all those opposed to the NGE cancelled their accounts when it hit, there would be no NGE, it would have reverted 'back to the CU or whatever and those who came up with that crap woudl have been fired, reassigned, or just bopped on the head with a "what the f were you thinkin'? "</p><p>Instead, folks stuck it out, with the hope and faith that it would be ok....and then, as i said, quit down the line, but so far down the line that the nge was established, time was invested and there was no turning back. THey quit disgusted, and many told me that they would never play another SOE game and told me i was a fool for playing eq2 because SOE would just muck it up and kill all the time i invested into my characters with another balance (i hope that day isnt today, honestly, though i do feel a little like the "shame on me" guy in the old adage "f me once, shame on you, f me twice, shame on me" about now.)</p><p>ANyway, my suggestion is if you think these changes are unfair, imbalancing, unwarranted, then press cancel for a day, a week, a few weeks, and see what happens. If enough did it, they'd probably scrap this whole balancing, or imbalancing act, and actually put some educated thought into how to make the game better for all classes. </p><p>The problem, though, is that enough people won't do it. We'll stick it out in hopes that it will be ok, and then when it's not it'll be too late and the game will be changed permanently, and FTL. </p><p>Again, i hope this suggestion is not in breach of the EULA, if so i will gladly retract the statement. </p></blockquote><p> Rollback is not a word in the SOE vocabulary.</p><p>There was absolutly no way even if 80% of all subscribers dropped SWG on Nov 15 2005 (NGE Day). That there would have been a roll back. SWG EOL (End of Life) had already been decided by that time IMO. Current Rumors are sometime in late 2008 (notice I said Rumors)</p><p>Most of the contested changes are pvp related. so pushing for a mass cancelation will just help out the vox cries for a server merge.</p>

Luxun
06-16-2007, 04:09 AM
<p><i>Keep whinnign like this and EQ2 iwll get a NGE ....for thsoe of yo uthat don't knwo this is hwo it goes : </i></p><p><i>All classes cut down to only 5 out of 24. All CAs/spells per class cut to 4-5 on your otolbar at max lvl. Every class gets a heal, one range attack, one melee and one sprint. Take out the entire combat system and replace it with a circle dot on your screen that goes red everytime you move it over a enemy player and tells you to click your left mouse key...oh yeh ..totally restart the game, make all of your 2 years worth of gear and equipment mean 0 and tell you to start over with the new players. </i></p><p><i>For those of you that are taking my post as sarcasim or just to be funny ..im not its a completely true story of Sony and LA did to SWG. Center of all of it was the dumb [I cannot control my vocabulary] [I cannot control my vocabulary] mothercuking piece of crap that should get runned over by a Bus ..the [I cannot control my vocabulary] Julio Torres's idea of a "starwarsy and iconic" gameand marketing mixed with player's constet whinning about people that had better gear...and thegame got NGEed. </i></p><p><i>You guys don't believe something liek this will happen ..but SOE did it. They did take away 3 years worth of effort and and time that their customers paid THEM for 3 years so they could feed their families and childeren. It was so bad, over 80% of the piopulation cancelled, it even got to new york times making an article about the upset SWG fans ..thats how bad it was it reached tv news in CANADA (rolf if it makes it to canada it means its the news of the decade) and nope ..SOE STILL refused to roll back. </i></p><p><i>So just stop whinnig nfor god sakes ....or you will be NGEed.</i></p>

Daemondred
06-16-2007, 04:12 AM
<cite>Luxun wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><i>Keep whinnign like this and EQ2 iwll get a NGE ....for thsoe of yo uthat don't knwo this is hwo it goes : </i></p><p><i>All classes cut down to only 5 out of 24. All CAs/spells per class cut to 4-5 on your otolbar at max lvl. Every class gets a heal, one range attack, onemelle and one sprint. Take out the entire combat system and replace it with a circle dot on your screen that goes red everytime you move it over a enemy player nd tells you to click your left mouse key...oh yeh ..totally retsrat the game, make lal of your 2 years worth of gearanmd equipment mean 0 and tell you to start over with the new players. </i></p><p><i>For those of you that are taking my post as sarcasim or just to be funny ..im not its a completely true story of Sony and LA did to SWG. Center of all of it was the dumb [I cannot control my vocabulary] [I cannot control my vocabulary] mothercuking piece of crap that should get runned over by a Bus ..the [I cannot control my vocabulary] Julio Torres's idea of a "starwarsy and iconic" gameand marketing mixed with player's constet whinning about people that had better gear...and thegame got NGEed. </i></p><p><i>You guys don't believe something liek this will happen ..but SOE did it. They did take away 3 years worth of effort and and time that their customers paid THEM for 3 years so they could feed their families and childeren. It was so bad, over 80% of the piopulation cancelled, it even got to new york times making an article about the upset SWG fans ..thats how bad it wa,s it reached tv news in CANADA (rolf if it makes it to canada it means its the news of the decade) and nope ..SOE STILL refused to roll back. </i></p><p><i><b>So just stop whinnig nfor god sakes ....or you will be NGEed.</b></i></p></blockquote><p><i>So just stop whinnig for god sakes ....or you will be<b><span style="font-size: large"> NGEed.</span></b></i></p><p>LOL</p><p>/Agreed</p><p>Hey Z Remember the thread me and spitfire ran, 450 of our friends canceled in less than a week all the best pvpers of naritus gone </p>

Luxun
06-16-2007, 04:17 AM
<cite>Daemondred wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Luxun wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><i>Keep whinnign like this and EQ2 iwll get a NGE ....for thsoe of yo uthat don't knwo this is hwo it goes : </i></p><p><i>All classes cut down to only 5 out of 24. All CAs/spells per class cut to 4-5 on your otolbar at max lvl. Every class gets a heal, one range attack, onemelle and one sprint. Take out the entire combat system and replace it with a circle dot on your screen that goes red everytime you move it over a enemy player nd tells you to click your left mouse key...oh yeh ..totally retsrat the game, make lal of your 2 years worth of gearanmd equipment mean 0 and tell you to start over with the new players. </i></p><p><i>For those of you that are taking my post as sarcasim or just to be funny ..im not its a completely true story of Sony and LA did to SWG. Center of all of it was the dumb [I cannot control my vocabulary] [I cannot control my vocabulary] mothercuking piece of crap that should get runned over by a Bus ..the [I cannot control my vocabulary] Julio Torres's idea of a "starwarsy and iconic" gameand marketing mixed with player's constet whinning about people that had better gear...and thegame got NGEed. </i></p><p><i>You guys don't believe something liek this will happen ..but SOE did it. They did take away 3 years worth of effort and and time that their customers paid THEM for 3 years so they could feed their families and childeren. It was so bad, over 80% of the piopulation cancelled, it even got to new york times making an article about the upset SWG fans ..thats how bad it wa,s it reached tv news in CANADA (rolf if it makes it to canada it means its the news of the decade) and nope ..SOE STILL refused to roll back. </i></p><p><i><b>So just stop whinnig nfor god sakes ....or you will be NGEed.</b></i></p></blockquote><p><i>So just stop whinnig for god sakes ....or you will be<b><span style="font-size: large"> NGEed.</span></b></i></p><p>LOL</p><p>/Agreed</p><p>Hey Z Remember the thread me and spitfire ran, 450 of our friends canceled in less than a week all the best pvpers of naritus gone </p></blockquote><p>lol that list was soooo long. SOE/LA are still dumbasses for not rolling back, no change, expansion pack, update will make them enough money as a roll back would. </p><p>but anyway Brigands and Rangers just got NGEed ...lets see who is next. </p>

Leorange
06-16-2007, 05:20 AM
<p>Interesting history lesson.</p><p>I had to <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_Galaxies" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">look up the meaning of NGE </a>("New Game Enhancement", Nov 2005), but now I know I wouldn't want that to happen here. </p><p>And to Demron: I know a lvl14 ranger with as much kills as your lvl58 <img src="/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Xova
06-16-2007, 05:59 AM
<p>Image_Vain wrote: </p><blockquote>Sony has great MMO's,  I played SWG and the combat change was the best thing that ever happened to the game. As for class balancing, Sony is trying to "balance" PvP, if this game was kept PvE "LIKE IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN AND WAS MADE FOR PVE NOT PVP" we wouldn't have this problem. I hope every ranger /quites, ranger is such a [I cannot control my vocabulary] [I cannot control my vocabulary] class man! </blockquote><p> The Combat Upgrade (April 2005) was terrific for SWG.</p><p>The New Game Experience (November 2005) was SOE/LA doing the equivalent of chopping the legs off a person and sticking them in a cheap wheelchair because they had a bruise on their knee.</p><p>A lot of people left the game, but a lot of people stuck it out and gave it a chance out of loyalty and hope, only to leave months afterwards feeling let down and betrayed because the game they loved was gone. Today that game is a shell of what it once was. It hasn't seen a new expansion release since October 2005 because the development team has been too busy fixing all of the bugs and imbalance that the NGE created. Yep, the wide-sweeping changes that were intended to bring balance to the game actually made it far, far worse.</p><p>I think the message that is trying to be delivered here is that if you don't like the changes, then speak up about it. SWG players did speak up, and they spoke with their wallets, which is oftentimes the only message companies like SOE understand. Nearly two years down the line SOE is starting to make changes to SWG that are repairing some the damage wrought by the NGE, but for many of us it's too little too late. The nerf-criers and carebears ultimately swayed the developers and LucasArts (LA) to the point that they completely re-did what used to be a terrific sandbox MMO and turned it into a quasi-FPS where you have less skills at endgame than a Paladin fresh off Noob Isle.</p><p>EQ2 has an advantage in that the PvE game has too great an impact on the PvP game to warrant such wide-sweeping changes as SWG underwent, but that doesn't mean that a PvP Combat Upgrade isn't in the works. In fact, I think we're seeing the start of one with the proposed changes.</p><p>When we all started on the pvp servers there was a thread - "The Law of the Jungle" or something similiar - that laid out some unofficial "rules of PvP. One of them was that "no one needs a nerf". I think we're starting to see what happens when too many cries for nerfs go without rational rebuttals and responses from the community. Is there unbalance? Sure - no MMO is ever perfectly balanced. But no one needs a nerf and no one is overpowered. The only thing overpowered here are the cries for nerfing.</p><p>Give ideas for balance but for the love of EQ2 please stop crying for nerfs on other classes lest you too end up getting NGE'd.</p>

Daemondred
06-16-2007, 06:30 AM
<cite>Xova wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><b>When we all started on the pvp servers there was a thread - "The Law of the Jungle" or something similiar</b> - that laid out some unofficial "rules of PvP. One of them was that "no one needs a nerf". I think we're starting to see what happens when too many cries for nerfs go without rational rebuttals and responses from the community. Is there unbalance? Sure - no MMO is ever perfectly balanced. But no one needs a nerf and no one is overpowered. The only thing overpowered here are the cries for nerfing.</p><p>Give ideas for balance but for the love of EQ2 please stop crying for nerfs on other classes lest you too end up getting NGE'd.</p></blockquote><p>I remember that Thread Xova, here it is for those that have forgotten it </p><p> <b>Disclaimer: </b>This is going to be long, opinionated, and blunt, but I've been reading a few too many threads from people who don't seem to understand what it is that they got themselves into, and are clamoring for SOE to run to the rescue and change everything about the game to suit their particular idea of just what "PvP" is. This is coming from a long-time EQ and EQ2 player, but by no means am I claiming to be an expert on EQ or PvP. I'm just a player who understands what game it is I'm playing. Now then, who I am: I played EQ1 on Rallos Zek back when it was the only "red" server there was. I played on Tallon Zek when it opened, was a long-time player there during the glory days of large-scale good vs. evil battles, daily raids between Nektulos and West Freeport, and moved on to Sullon Zek when it opened, and played on the good (read: suicidal) team. I was mediocre at best, hardly a feared PKer, but I learned to survive and enjoyed what I played, no matter if I was outmatched or not. I understood what I was playing. Now that EQ2 has opened PvP servers, I couldn't help but join in. But I've noticed that there are large numbers of "bluebies" who came to these servers not understanding the nature of PvP in EQ games. This is evident in the incredible number of threads on this board where people are crying for everything to be changed to support what they thought it is. So let's get this started with the fundamental laws of the jungle. <b>Law of the Jungle #1: You are going to die. </b>There's no getting out of it. You did not come here to be safe. You were safe before. Now, those strawberry fields of treasure and experience are crawling with cutthroats who know where you used to go, what you used to do, what you used to seek there, and how to use this knowledge to catch you and inflict death on you. They aren't going to wait for you to get ready. They aren't going to play fair. They aren't going to care if a particular spell or tactic is too devastating if they catch you with it. Your only way around it is to learn them- learn where they are, learn what they're after, learn what they're going to do, and prepare yourself ahead of time. And no matter how well-prepared you are for what's out there- you are still going to die. There is no way out of Law #1. Whether it's at the hands of someone at the top of your attack range picking you off just because you're there, whether it's a group of players lower than you who gang up and tear you apart, whether it's an even-con, similar class who just happens to get that last shot in before you, whether it's some punk who sucker-punches you right after a tough fight, or whether it's someone whom you thought had no chance in hell who happens to get lucky, you're going to be killed. If this bothers you, you made a mistake. <b>Law of the Jungle #2: This isn't your mother's RPG </b>You can't play the same EQ2 you played when they weren't after you. The gear that was excellent enough to live in because of its effectiveness against the mindless MOBs isn't worth squat- you have to outfit yourself with your most dreaded foes in mind. Resists are king, the stats you used to drool over are just going to have to take the bench. You can't just trot over to your favorite hunting grounds to knock out that writ or exploration quest anymore. They know that those spots attract people who still think that they're playing the same game, and they will be waiting for you. (See Law #1) You have to forget everything you learned on the blue servers, and be prepared to learn it all over again. There are new rules for how to get a level. There are new rules for where to hunt, and there are new rules for which routes to take through the lands. If it's something that many people used to do or where many people used to go, it is now bait that will lead many people to their deaths. If you thought that you were going to play the same route you played before to get to level 60-whatever except that you can kill people now, you made a mistake. <b>Law of the Jungle #3: Nobody needs to be nerfed </b>All classes have advantages in certain situations. If you find yourself in one of these situations and you aren't the class in question, see Law #1. So, such-and-such a class can take you down solo if they get the jump on you, if all they do is X and Y? Well, yes. That's what they do, and you were there. The essence of EQ2 is that all classes have advantages and weaknesses, and the way we overcome our weaknesses isn't telling the game developer to take them away, or give you someone else's advantage. The way you overcome these weaknesses is by <b>grouping</b> with someone who can complement them. You're not here to run around solo and have a fair, balanced even 1v1 match against everyone you meet. That's not PvP, that's <b>dueling</b>. Running around alone isn't something you have the right to do. Not all classes were meant to solo in PvE as well as others, what makes you think this is any different? And if your class can't do what so-and-so does, they shouldn't. Everyone has "certain classes" who flat-out have them beat. Everyone has classes that can't hold a candle to them. This is not, nor should it be, a game where you always stand a fair chance. There's more to PvP that who has what nuke or how many hitpoints or what dps rate is. PvP is about knowing <b>everything</b> you can do and how it works, not just what numbers scrolled up when you fought mobs before. If you can't fight them, learn how to. If you can't learn and expect SOE to change everything around to suit you, you made a mistake. Crying that you can't beat X class and they need to be nerfed doesn't mean you're right, it means you're an unskilled player who doesn't understand how to play his class. You also have to understand the other classes and what their weaknesses are. Learn, Adapt, and Grow; if you can't do that then you're not cut out for this. <b>Law of the Jungle #4: Success is measured by survival </b>Any idiot can rack up a high number of kills, that doesn't make them skilled. Your skill isn't determined by how many people of what level you can take on. And the little punk who ran away, or zoned, or avoided you altogether, he's not a coward, he's <b>smart</b>. Just because you engage someone doesn't mean you have the right to kill them. You have to <b>earn </b>that kill. If they get away, they survived. If they fight back too hard and you're outmatched, sticking around and letting them have you isn't brave or honorable, it's <b>stupid.</b> Make them earn it! If you can get away, you deserved to. If you can't out-damage them because you're in offensive stance and they're in defensive stance, it's not unfair- they're just thinking ahead of you. Don't lower your defenses just because you think that extra bit of dps that you used to get against mobs is going to turn the tide- because you're thinking in terms of a kill you haven't earned yet and not thinking with survival in mind. If all those nasty roots and spells and whatever are eating you up, stock up on items that take care of them: potions, resist gear, etc. If it isn't a piece of gear with surviving an attack in its design, you made a mistake. It takes time, patience, and smarts to figure out all the little tricks, tactics, and items that help you survive in this world. It's not about killing- it's about depriving your enemy of the kill. If this isn't your primary thought when planning every last detail your character from skills to selections to gear to hotkeys to camera angle to system options, see Law #1. You aren't a good PvPer because of who you fight and which fights you win, you are a good PvPer depending on your overall level of preparation and how many times you can count that that preparation saves your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. <b>Law of the Jungle #5: You are never going to be a god </b>Too many of you have had that time when you have those cute little adolescent fantasies about being a powerful, unstoppable killing machine with the title of Overlord while wielding the shiniest, largest and most phallic weapon in Norrath and laying out every single foe you happen to encounter through sheer invincibility. It ain't gonna happen- ever. (See Law #1) PvP isn't for people who like to play single-player games in godmode, spanky. You didn't come here to be godlike, you came here to embrace mortality<b>. </b>You aren't just here to kill other players- you came here to give them permission to kill you, to utilize advatages over you, to take advantage of your weaknesses, to leave you broken and bleeding while they /dance on your corpse and count their money. If you came here planning on becoming the all-powerful king of the hill that no one can topple, you made a mistake. Even as the server ages, everyone's going to bunch up in the higher levels and guilds and players are going to be after you more than ever. You will never be safe again. The safe servers are still where you left them.l <b>Law of the Jungle #6: It's still just a game </b>Playing on a PvP server doesn't take cojones. It doesn't take an iron will, or an asbestos stomach. It doesn't make you a man. You're still an EQ2 geek just like the rest of us, it's just a lot more difficult. If it's too hard, too frustrating, too unfair, too immature, too cutthroat, too inconvenient, or if you're just not that good at it or if you think that so-and-so shouldn't be doing such-and-such because it "ruins" your fun, then it's not for you. You're here if you enjoy what you're playing. If you are here because you want to enjoy it, but you're not, don't expect SOE to get rid of everything you don't like about it. It is what it is. It's MEAN. And if  someone one-shots you, or takes your plat that you were just on your way to bank, or whatever else it may be that spoiled your plans, well, you either suck it up and keep playing or you're on the wrong server. It's only "griefing" if you let it give you grief. If you can't laugh it off, you're the problem. If you're not having fun, you made a mistake. This ugly duckling isn't going to grow up into a swan, you just have to love it unconditionally and understand that yes, it's always going to look like that. There's no shame in playing on the blue servers if that's more your cup of tea, we're all here to play games, and the game you play isn't a reflection on your status as a human being. But PvP is a different game. If you could go live in a beachhouse with central air and plasma-screen TV's for the same price, why would you move into a shack with no plumbing or power and complain about the leak in the roof? You have to want to live in this shack. Don't expect SOE to turn it into a resort, they've already built those for you. All of these factors lead me to one final point. Filling up boards with complaints that "X class can do this and I can't and so-and-so ganked me when I was fighting and I was 10 levels lower than him and I can't go anywhere without being bind-camped  and SOE needs to FIX THIS IMMEDIATELY" doesn't help anyone- it only buries legitimate issues like bugs and exploits under mountains of whining by people who can't seem to understand that they are just not that good at the game. There's only one thing that should be on your mind when you think about all the problems with PvP and the PvP servers. The final, and truest Law of the Jungle:<b> LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT. </b></p>

Microbolt
06-16-2007, 12:56 PM
Wish everyone would just lay off of the rangers.  We got the nerfs that everyone was screaming for us to get.  Will that stop me from killing you?  Probably not!  I will just adapt to the new stradegies from the changes that was made.  If people focus'd more on learning thier class and learning others instead of whining on the forum you could be a much better PvP'er.

CresentBlade
06-16-2007, 01:45 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>Wish everyone would just lay off of the rangers.  We got the nerfs that everyone was screaming for us to get.  Will that stop me from killing you?  Probably not!  I will just adapt to the new stradegies from the changes that was made.  <span style="font-size: small">If <i>Rangers</i> focus'd more on learning thier class and learning others instead of whining on the forum you could be a much better PvP'er.</span></blockquote><p>What do you expect? Rangers talked so much smack on the forums telling others to stop whining and L2P. Now you really expect people not to return the favor? You reap what you sow.</p><p>Fixed your statement for you also<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p>

Vlahkmaak
06-17-2007, 06:33 AM
<cite>Demron wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Tass</p><p>It's people like you who don't understand the dynamics of the game and never will. You make up for your lack of skill with an ever increasing whining. Last night on my level 58 Ranger I NEVER used my two big attacks and in fact melee'd 60% of my fights and guess what? I won as many fights as I normally would have because what makes a Ranger and other scouts good is the initiative. You idiots don't understand how much more beneficial track/stealth are when used properly.</p><p>Until you learn that and how to counter that none of you "nerf scouts" whiners will ever be on an even playing field with us scouts. Funny thing is a scout can play any other class after playing a scout and do better against scouts than you whiners ever will, PERIOD!</p><p>I killed 28 people last night never once using my big attacks and most of the time I melee'd.</p></blockquote>It is you who does not get it.  As rangers we should not be able to out melee fabled out guardians.  We should not be able to kill red casters and orange SK's as fast as we do.  As rangers we should not be out running bards.  With track and stealth and the ability to burst DPS some one to death before they know what hits them we are way ver powered.  We need a good nerfing and it has been a long time coming. 

Mildavyn
06-17-2007, 08:09 AM
<p>(1182047399)[Sun Jun 17 12:29:59 2007] Yoruichi's Sniper Shot critically hits YOU for 2759 piercing damage. (1182047399)[Sun Jun 17 12:29:59 2007] Yoruichi's Storm Arrow hits YOU for 65 magic damage. (1182047399)[Sun Jun 17 12:29:59 2007] Yoruichi's Quick Shot hits YOU for 214 piercing damage. (1182047399)[Sun Jun 17 12:29:59 2007] You are immune to Stun effects. (1182047399)[Sun Jun 17 12:29:59 2007] You are stunned! (1182047399)[Sun Jun 17 12:29:59 2007] Yoruichi critically hits YOU for 1003 piercing damage. (1182047399)[Sun Jun 17 12:29:59 2007] Yoruichi's Quick Shot critically hits YOU for 278 piercing damage. (1182047401)[Sun Jun 17 12:30:01 2007] Yoruichi's Rain of Arrows hits YOU for 1820 piercing damage. (1182047401)[Sun Jun 17 12:30:01 2007] You are no longer stunned. (1182047402)[Sun Jun 17 12:30:02 2007] Yoruichi's Confounding Arrow critically hits YOU for 588 piercing damage. (1182047403)[Sun Jun 17 12:30:03 2007] Yoruichi's Triple Volley critically hits YOU for 142 piercing damage. (1182047403)[Sun Jun 17 12:30:03 2007] Yoruichi's Triple Volley critically hits YOU for 408 piercing damage. (1182047403)[Sun Jun 17 12:30:03 2007] You lose consciousness! (1182047403)[Sun Jun 17 12:30:03 2007] Yoruichi's Triple Volley critically hits YOU for 562 piercing damage. (1182047403)[Sun Jun 17 12:30:03 2007] An augmentation song ends. (1182047403)[Sun Jun 17 12:30:03 2007] Yoruichi has killed you. (1182047403)[Sun Jun 17 12:30:03 2007] You lost 51 Copper for losing the battle. (1182047403)[Sun Jun 17 12:30:03 2007] Your death has decreased your infamy. (1182047403)[Sun Jun 17 12:30:03 2007] Your rank has dropped to Slayer.</p><p>4 seconds and I'm dead. Judging by those damage number, this particular ranger isn't the best around (I've had auto-attacks critting on me for 1800 from other rangers.) Now i was AFK at the EL spires at the time (My fault I know) But seriously... 4 seconds?</p>

Armawk
06-17-2007, 08:15 AM
<p>a level 17 ranger who has been a fixture (and level 17) on nagafen for many months killed my 18 assassin, all mc + leg, adp3+ etc in less than 3 seconds last night.</p><p>I repeat less than 3 seconds. Zero possiblity to react in any way other than to die. I dont actually care about dieing to a blue but it would be nice to get one CA off perhaps?</p><p>In fact he/she is a decent player, no messing around, no smacktalk, no repeat kills etc, but the fact is they are essentially unkillable to any but a tiny tiny clique of players. </p><p>Is that what PVP should be? a club for a few dozen friends? Whos going to pay to run that?</p>

Elephanton
06-17-2007, 09:06 AM
<cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>a level 17 ranger who has been a fixture (and level 17) on nagafen for many months killed my 18 assassin, all mc + leg, adp3+ etc in less than 3 seconds last night.</p><p>I repeat less than 3 seconds. Zero possiblity to react in any way other than to die. I dont actually care about dieing to a blue but it would be nice to get one CA off perhaps?</p><p>In fact he/she is a decent player, no messing around, no smacktalk, no repeat kills etc, but the fact is they are essentially unkillable to any but a tiny tiny clique of players. </p><p>Is that what PVP should be? a club for a few dozen friends? Whos going to pay to run that?</p></blockquote><p>Dude, something is really wrong with you. I mean seriously, you should probably leave PVP server.</p><p>FYI ranger at 17 has just 2 ranged attacks (1 need to be fired from the back, another one is very very weak double shot). So, that ranger have beaten you with melee. And don't make me start on ranger's melee skills. There's absolutely no way that assasin can loose a ranger in melee unless the assasin is AFK.</p><p>Ranger really becomes strong in PVP at the end of T3 (it gets about 4 new ranged skills + upgrades to all existing at 29), before that, rangers are pretty weak. If you are loosing to rangers at T2, you should probably delete your char now.</p>

Vilesummon
06-17-2007, 09:22 AM
<span style="color: #cc0000"><span style="font-size: small">Okay, so rangers may not be able to go out and gank people as easily as they want. Guess what, you still have track...so you have more control over the environment in which you engage. You have a hell of a lot more say in your battles than a lot of us do. Poor little casters farming nodes have those sneaky little tracker types come and get us all the time. You sick people with track are always harassing the bots too...have you no sense of decency. I mean they are trying to support their families. On the serious side, I play a Q, and since rangers and scouts have track for PVP, I really am not gonna feel too bad if their damage gets dropped. One thing is clear on test, battles are lasting longer. If you go solo, know that no outcome may be guaranteed. If you are in a group...know the enemy or you may not like the outcome. The only other thought I had regarding the issue is that I do think the predators (both aligns) should have the largest track range, while other scout classes have a smaller range...smaller than what they do now. Perhaps the portable lil juke boxes should have the smallest track range, but give them the ability to track stealth and/or invis with the diminished track range. </span></span>

Armawk
06-17-2007, 10:30 AM
<cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Dude, something is really wrong with you. I mean seriously, you should probably leave PVP server.</p><p>FYI ranger at 17 has just 2 ranged attacks (1 need to be fired from the back, another one is very very weak double shot). So, that ranger have beaten you with melee. And don't make me start on ranger's melee skills. There's absolutely no way that assasin can loose a ranger in melee unless the assasin is AFK.</p><p>Ranger really becomes strong in PVP at the end of T3 (it gets about 4 new ranged skills + upgrades to all existing at 29), before that, rangers are pretty weak. If you are loosing to rangers at T2, you should probably delete your char now.</p></blockquote><p> Yep they got a jump on me while I was walking without paying enough attention to surroundings. Im not even whining, much less about that, especially this being a character I rarely play who has the basics only and I was just on with for a quick wander to see what was going on. </p><p>Its the simple SPEED with which death occurs. A better player with a better equiped toon who was better ready would have survived longer (maybe even might win if they too were an ubertwink). A player with a class not as good as assassin would have lasted even less than the 3 seconds. You shouldnt be killing decently equipped toons in that time even if they WERE afk.</p><p>But you sir, are being grossly untruthful if you think rangers are "pretty weak" in T2. And the ranger did effectively all that damage ranged, so climb off your hobby horse, take your nerf pills and smile.</p>

Badaxe Ba
06-17-2007, 11:36 AM
<cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>a level 17 ranger who has been a fixture (and level 17) on nagafen for many months killed my 18 assassin, all mc + leg, adp3+ etc in less than 3 seconds last night.</p><p>I repeat less than 3 seconds. Zero possiblity to react in any way other than to die. I dont actually care about dieing to a blue but it would be nice to get one CA off perhaps?</p><p>In fact he/she is a decent player, no messing around, no smacktalk, no repeat kills etc, but the fact is they are essentially unkillable to any but a tiny tiny clique of players. </p><p>Is that what PVP should be? a club for a few dozen friends? Whos going to pay to run that?</p></blockquote><p> I call your story BS sir.</p><p>Simply for the very reason that you contradict yourself in your very next post, by trying to make your character sound even weaker than you made yourself out to be in your first post.  First, you say this uber player manages to defeat your uber twinked out Assassin, even with your advantage of having a level on him.</p><p>Then,</p><p>I quote you from the post above;</p><p>"Yep they got a jump on me while I was walking without paying enough attention to surroundings. Im not even whining, much less about that, especially this being a character I rarely play <b><u>who has the basics only</u></b> and I was just on with for a quick wander to see what was going on." </p><p>Yet you say in your first post that your toon had all mastercrafted/legendary gear, and all ad3 CA's.  Not to mention that an assassin also has track and stealth!</p><p>I challenge any assassin to point out that arguing the speed of death caused by predators from an assassin's point of view, isn't so reduntantly ridiculous as to be embarrassing to assassins.</p><p>The very point of your story, and the real crux, is in the last line, where just maybe a glimmering of truth comes out.</p><p>"even if they WERE afk."</p><p>I can't count the times assassins have killed me, and from my point of view, is the true nemesis of a ranger.  If said blue con ranger killed you, I applaud him.  Well done ranger, well done.  Another enemy of the queen sent to harrass our city has died thanks to you.  </p>

Greeen-_-Ranger
06-17-2007, 11:47 AM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>a level 17 ranger who has been a fixture (and level 17) on nagafen for many months killed my 18 assassin, all mc + leg, adp3+ etc in less than 3 seconds last night.</p><p>I repeat less than 3 seconds. Zero possiblity to react in any way other than to die. I dont actually care about dieing to a blue but it would be nice to get one CA off perhaps?</p><p>In fact he/she is a decent player, no messing around, no smacktalk, no repeat kills etc, but the fact is they are essentially unkillable to any but a tiny tiny clique of players. </p><p>Is that what PVP should be? a club for a few dozen friends? Whos going to pay to run that?</p></blockquote><p> I call your story BS sir.</p><p>Simply for the very reason that you contradict yourself in your very next post, by trying to make your character sound even weaker than you made yourself out to be in your first post.  First, you say this uber player manages to defeat your uber twinked out Assassin, even with your advantage of having a level on him.</p><p>Then,</p><p>I quote you from the post above;</p><p>"Yep they got a jump on me while I was walking without paying enough attention to surroundings. Im not even whining, much less about that, especially this being a character I rarely play <b><u>who has the basics only</u></b> and I was just on with for a quick wander to see what was going on." </p><p>Yet you say in your first post that your toon had all mastercrafted/legendary gear, and all ad3 CA's.  Not to mention that an assassin also has track and stealth!</p><p>I challenge any assassin to point out that arguing the speed of death caused by predators from an assassin's point of view, isn't so reduntantly ridiculous as to be embarrassing to assassins.</p><p>The very point of your story, and the real crux, is in the last line, where just maybe a glimmering of truth comes out.</p><p>"even if they WERE afk."</p><p>I can't count the times assassins have killed me, and from my point of view, is the true nemesis of a ranger.  If said blue con ranger killed you, I applaud him.  Well done ranger, well done.  Another enemy of the queen sent to harrass our city has died thanks to you.  </p></blockquote>Roleplayers scare me tbh.

Vlahkmaak
06-17-2007, 01:57 PM
<cite>Demron wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Image_Vain wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sony has great MMO's,  I played SWG and the combat change was the best thing that ever happened to the game. As for class balancing, Sony is trying to "balance" PvP, if this game was kept PvE "LIKE IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN AND WAS MADE FOR PVE NOT PVP" we wouldn't have this problem. I hope every ranger /quites, ranger is such a [I cannot control my vocabulary] [I cannot control my vocabulary] class man! </blockquote><p> Yet the other scouts like Brigand, Assassin, and Swashie are better. /shakes head</p><p>Play a Ranger to even level 30 where they're supposed to be PvP gods in the lower levels, and see how hard it really is to get to bow range, and hope you get off one shot.</p><p>I recently made a Guardian and is level 16, you know those levels everyone is twinked and there are hundreds of gankers. He has won 48 fights and died 11 times. Most those fights won were against those overpowered scouts.</p><p>/shrug After playing a scout I know how to beat them, but I'm sure you and others learn the game, well maybe not.</p></blockquote>You ahve a serious logic flaw here.  rangers are not true rangers until lvl 19.  It is not till t3 that we start being defined as rangers.  Kill a lvl 70 ranger that knows what he is doing as a guardian and then you will see what the problem is.  Fight a lvl 60 ranager on a 70 necro and you will see the problem.

KannaWhoopass
06-17-2007, 02:06 PM
<p>I have a better idea </p><p>All of the Rangers can go on a hunger strike </p><p>And post pictures on the forums of them getting skinny .. </p><p>Wicked idea !!</p>

Greeen-_-Ranger
06-17-2007, 02:09 PM
<cite>KannaWhoopass wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I have a better idea </p><p>All of the Rangers can go on a hunger strike </p><p>And post pictures on the forums of them getting skinny .. </p><p>Wicked idea !!</p></blockquote> Come all ye rangers and starve yourselves!!!

Cyst
06-17-2007, 02:45 PM
<cite>Plaguemeister wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Demron wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Image_Vain wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sony has great MMO's,  I played SWG and the combat change was the best thing that ever happened to the game. As for class balancing, Sony is trying to "balance" PvP, if this game was kept PvE "LIKE IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN AND WAS MADE FOR PVE NOT PVP" we wouldn't have this problem. I hope every ranger /quites, ranger is such a [I cannot control my vocabulary] [I cannot control my vocabulary] class man! </blockquote><p> Yet the other scouts like Brigand, Assassin, and Swashie are better. /shakes head</p><p>Play a Ranger to even level 30 where they're supposed to be PvP gods in the lower levels, and see how hard it really is to get to bow range, and hope you get off one shot.</p><p>I recently made a Guardian and is level 16, you know those levels everyone is twinked and there are hundreds of gankers. He has won 48 fights and died 11 times. Most those fights won were against those overpowered scouts.</p><p>/shrug After playing a scout I know how to beat them, but I'm sure you and others learn the game, well maybe not.</p></blockquote>You ahve a serious logic flaw here.  rangers are not true rangers until lvl 19.  It is not till t3 that we start being defined as rangers.  Kill a lvl 70 ranger that knows what he is doing as a guardian and then you will see what the problem is.  Fight a lvl 60 ranager on a 70 necro and you will see the problem. </blockquote><p>No flaw.. What are the top five PvP classes in the game T7? Where does a Ranger fall on that chart?</p><p>I agree with you that a Ranger is powerful, but there are other classes much more powerful than a Ranger, especially at level 70. Brigand, Assassin, Bruiser, Warden, and Fury.</p><p>I do agree cloth casters need help, I will never dispute that because I feel guilty everytime I kill one who is ranked and they were no challenge, and I'll also agree the Guardian needs reworked. You'll not hear me argue against that as I've often said; "take away half the damage I do to casters, and give me the ability to compete with other scouts".</p><p>But what makes most scouts overpowered against other classes is the ability to pick your fights, when you fight, and always getting the jump. After this patch you'll live longer, but you're still going to die to the same scouts you used to. Nothing is really going to change. </p>

Greeen-_-Ranger
06-17-2007, 02:58 PM
<cite>Demron wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Plaguemeister wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Demron wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Image_Vain wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sony has great MMO's,  I played SWG and the combat change was the best thing that ever happened to the game. As for class balancing, Sony is trying to "balance" PvP, if this game was kept PvE "LIKE IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN AND WAS MADE FOR PVE NOT PVP" we wouldn't have this problem. I hope every ranger /quites, ranger is such a [I cannot control my vocabulary] [I cannot control my vocabulary] class man! </blockquote><p> Yet the other scouts like Brigand, Assassin, and Swashie are better. /shakes head</p><p>Play a Ranger to even level 30 where they're supposed to be PvP gods in the lower levels, and see how hard it really is to get to bow range, and hope you get off one shot.</p><p>I recently made a Guardian and is level 16, you know those levels everyone is twinked and there are hundreds of gankers. He has won 48 fights and died 11 times. Most those fights won were against those overpowered scouts.</p><p>/shrug After playing a scout I know how to beat them, but I'm sure you and others learn the game, well maybe not.</p></blockquote>You ahve a serious logic flaw here.  rangers are not true rangers until lvl 19.  It is not till t3 that we start being defined as rangers.  Kill a lvl 70 ranger that knows what he is doing as a guardian and then you will see what the problem is.  Fight a lvl 60 ranager on a 70 necro and you will see the problem. </blockquote><p>No flaw.. What are the top five PvP classes in the game T7? Where does a Ranger fall on that chart?</p><p>I agree with you that a Ranger is powerful, but there are other classes much more powerful than a Ranger, especially at level 70. Brigand, Assassin, Bruiser, Warden, and Fury.</p><p>I do agree cloth casters need help, I will never dispute that because I feel guilty everytime I kill one who is ranked and they were no challenge, and I'll also agree the Guardian needs reworked. You'll not hear me argue against that as I've often said; "take away half the damage I do to casters, and give me the ability to compete with other scouts".</p><p>But what makes most scouts overpowered against other classes is the ability to pick your fights, when you fight, and always getting the jump. After this patch you'll live longer, but you're still going to die to the same scouts you used to. Nothing is really going to change. </p></blockquote> Yea, I predict alot of Brigands (if not already there...)will be respec'd to AGI shortly so that we get our amazing 2 seconds of double up still.   AND now we dont have to go through hell to find a rapier!

Armawk
06-17-2007, 03:59 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>I call your story BS sir. <p>Simply for the very reason that you contradict yourself in your very next post, by trying to make your character sound even weaker than you made yourself out to be in your first post.  First, you say this uber player manages to defeat your uber twinked out Assassin, even with your advantage of having a level on him.</p><p>Then,</p><p>I quote you from the post above;</p><p>"Yep they got a jump on me while I was walking without paying enough attention to surroundings. Im not even whining, much less about that, especially this being a character I rarely play <b><u>who has the basics only</u></b> and I was just on with for a quick wander to see what was going on." </p><p>Yet you say in your first post that your toon had all mastercrafted/legendary gear, and all ad3 CA's.  Not to mention that an assassin also has track and stealth!</p></blockquote>Roleplayers scare me tbh. </blockquote><p>MC and ad3 IS THE BASICS. thats part of my point. </p><p>Less than MC and ad3 = island noob on nagafen. You all KNOW this. Why do you all come here and post other things? Why do I see posts saying "its all about skill" when we all know it isnt?</p><p>Noone with any sense will nowadays take a toon past 10 before storing up the MC armor and ad3 so they can race to 12 and put it all on and have at least a breathing space.</p><p>Anyone to deny that?</p><p>Well now that formerly twink gear isnt even enough to guarantee to get a CA off. Wow game working well there.</p><p>My post had jack to do with the assassin involved (and little to do with rangers to be honest), it had to do with the uber uber twinkage of a small club of players who are unkillable.</p>

Armawk
06-17-2007, 04:46 PM
<p>I do owe you a small apology. I have looked at the parses properly and another player (swashie) hit me in the last second before I died with a thrown weapon ca, causing about 1/8 of the total damage that killed me. </p><p>Total time from first hit to death=4 seconds.</p><p>If I cared about being embarrased I would never have posted about this btw because yep, I was a total sitting target, walking up a griffon tower without a thought. 100% my fault and deserved to get killed. I posted only because I was surprised by the sudden nature of the damage.</p>

tass
06-17-2007, 04:47 PM
<cite>Demron wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Tass</p><p>It's people like you who don't understand the dynamics of the game and never will. You make up for your lack of skill with an ever increasing whining. Last night on my level 58 Ranger I NEVER used my two big attacks and in fact melee'd 60% of my fights and guess what? I won as many fights as I normally would have because what makes a Ranger and other scouts good is the initiative. You idiots don't understand how much more beneficial track/stealth are when used properly.</p><p>Until you learn that and how to counter that none of you "nerf scouts" whiners will ever be on an even playing field with us scouts. Funny thing is a scout can play any other class after playing a scout and do better against scouts than you whiners ever will, PERIOD!</p><p>I killed 28 people last night never once using my big attacks and most of the time I melee'd.</p></blockquote>lol thought this thread disappeared. But of course far be it for me not to answer fan mail. So here goes. 1. I don't think I was whining. Now exodus man up top of me there, thats whining. I just want to kick em in the [Removed for Content] on the way out, mainly out of unmatched spite lol. 2. You never used the big attacks huh? Ah well just means you didn't utilize all of ur classes potential or you could have killed more people. Not exactly a person playing a class I want in a grp ya know? (Now im making fun of you) 3. I don't care how good a ranger is or if they can out melee a brig or a swash, all I care about is those bastages not being able to ever get away again. And as it stands on test and in the changes its in the works. Might take the devs 6 months but eventually throwing 2 or 3 snares on a ranger will mean something. And don't feel all singled out. I wish the same thing on that aa line that the furies have as well. Nice chatting with you feel free to answer back so I have something else to ridicule. Remember, the most caustic of [Removed for Content] like me don't have a conscience to get in the way of caring what I say or who I ridicule. Have a happy joy joy day!

EQGu
06-17-2007, 06:03 PM
I LOVE the changes fyi people will actually know how to play a ranger!