What's the reasoning behind the 'Aggro/Hate' changes?

[TwistedFaith]

Why are these changes taking place? Who's idea was it to change these after the combat system has been stable for almost a year? The nerfs to hate reducers are not just slight changes, they are massive. 14% on the ranger hate reducing buff, why? Ranger Master 1 Hate reducer (Live) 41% reduction Ranger Master 1 Hate Reducer (Test) 27% reduction Are tanks going to have extra hate increasing skills, not from what I have seen. I wish SoE would explain why such huge changes seem to have to be made now after such a stable period with the combat system. I cant help but feel this is to slow down DPS on raids, and also to allow a new set of hate reducer spells to be available in the next expansion, if this is the case then it's getting pretty old. The idea of nerfing something, only then to bring out a expansion with 'new' skills which simply put you back where you were before the nerf is getting very very tiresome.

[Hakthaf]

Rangers were not only one to feel this, rogues and assassins felt this hard too. Swash transfer and our deagro proc were hit hard from what I've seen. This is really going to hurt scout damage as now we all have to hold back a lot or die. I can almost understand a small nerf so we have danger when we go all out damage on something. But with this huge of a hit even holding back a lot it will be easy to rip agro. Heck as a swash we have 4 powers that are a dps burst for 30seconds up to a minute on some, if I pop these under the new changes its almost instant death, even current system I can rip agro easily. So if this goes live, on raids there is no way I can ever use some of my powers unless I want to die.

[Boramyr]

What's worse is they don't have anyone on Test that tests high end raiding or they would know that Agro is already a pain in the rear to control.  That even with Stacking transfers to tanks and having troubs mitigate a wizard can pull aggro every time if he isn't careful as it is.  And its the same with all T1 dps.  With these changes it will be IMPOSSIBLE to hold aggro on raids.  GU36 sounded cool with the AA changes but with the Arrow Nerf and this soon to be Agro Debacle it looks like the worse update EVER!!!

[Poison-X]

<p>They want you to spec your deagro aa line!  or you'll have huge repair bills..</p>

[Naglfar]

<p>Seems great.</p><p>All nerf who makes the game more challenging is good. </p><p>Next update i want the shards back and the old long XP curve !  <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Agaxiq]

Lower it to 4% and you'll know how warlocks feel.

[Mabes]

<p>Tbh, in current form, scouts pretty much never have to worry about getting aggro, we can go all out with no problems, while mages have to balence their dps with aggro control, and this just balences it a little.  I mean currently most scouts don't even use their deaggro CA.  The only thing I kinda worry about is if the MT will still be able to hold aggro, but I don't think it will be too big of an issue.  I think unless you play on test server, shouldn't scream that the sky is falling just yet.</p><p>On a side note though, the extreme overnerf of DT bow summoned ammo? RIDICULOUS!</p>

[Razak]

I agree with abe to some degree as a warlock it is insane what we have to deal with and sit and watch so many other classes out dps me just because I have very little ability to get the hate off me (41% hate transfer? Who the hell authorized that in the first place!?!?!?! Are you kidding me? I would kill for a quarter of that!). Hell I should be in the top 5 most of the time but unless I have a pally or a coercer specifically reducing me (which honestly doesn't happen much) or a mastered troub in my group in addition to a mastered dirge in the MT group (also doesn't happen alot as there are almost no high level troubs in my server due to the crappiness of the class), I usually drop down below zerkers and sometimes even guards because even in groups I can't use AoEs unless I wanna die. That being said I think the mass amounts of nerfing that is happening isn't necessarily the best way to deal with the screwy warlock issues, they could just give us a 8-10% transfer instead. I do think the scouts were do for a nerf, but if the final nerf is as big as this I don't agree with it... Ranger should have been nerfed a lot but they probably shouldn't nerf any class in this stuff otherwise complete raids may become far too difficult for most in the game. Honestly with these kind of nerfs I wish they would have added an additional tank taunt or two, especially aoe to help with the Warlock issues at the same time.

[lilmohi]

I love how we get nerfed to make bards and chanters "more desireable".  As for rangers this doesn't just make us use our deagros more often it's a direct nerf to our dps (i presume the others will have a equivalent problem).   In single group content i already had trouble loosing agro with the pathetic agro reducers we have.  My single target hate ruducer does less than a single auto-attack.

[Aela@Test]

<cite>Boramyr wrote:</cite><blockquote>What's worse is they don't have anyone on Test that tests high end raiding or they would know that Agro is already a pain in the rear to control.  That even with Stacking transfers to tanks and having troubs mitigate a wizard can pull aggro every time if he isn't careful as it is.  And its the same with all T1 dps.  With these changes it will be IMPOSSIBLE to hold aggro on raids.  GU36 sounded cool with the AA changes but with the Arrow Nerf and this soon to be Agro Debacle it looks like the worse update EVER!!!</blockquote><p>Get your head out of your [Removed for Content] and think about things for a second.  Do you truly believe that we, the test server players, sit around and come up with things like nurfing detaunts/taunts.  Yes, because /we/ have no idea what it's like to try and attempt to keep agro on our tanks.  /We/ couldn't possibly actually raid anything.  Of course.  Yes, that must be it.</p><p> Just last night, I was on test talking about how happy i was, as a dirge, to have my agro management skill nurf'd.  I was so excited that the devs implemented MY idea to make my healers job harder, and the overall dps of my raid group to go down.   That must be it, how did you discover and foil my plan!?!</p><p> /sarcasm off</p>

[Kala Asuras]

I am hoping and praying that the devs idea of a fun raid and their future plans is to make all raid encounters behave like the crab in mystic lake.  Now instead of spawning adds we'll just make it so the agro runs all over the raid instead.  Last time I went into the crab instance I did <b>nothing</b> but auto attack and even then <b>had to turn that off</b> when we still managed to spawn two extra sets of adds.  Yay, that is a fun encounter worth my time and 15 bucks a month.

[Ghalslayt]

The hate changes I do not think will hurt assassins much at all.  Proper use of concealment, ignorant bliss, and elude control your hate very well.  On top of that you can funnel your hate to someone else who won't get aggro on a raid.  Rogues it's a bit more iffy as debuffs generate a ton of aggro. 

[Dasein]

God forbid a raid involve a bit more strategy than burning down a mob as quickly as possible. After all, EQ2 should only be about DPS and agro, and nothing else. If a fight doesn't eward maximizing DPS, then something is wrong, right?

[kenm]

<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>God forbid a raid involve a bit more strategy than burning down a mob as quickly as possible. After all, EQ2 should only be about DPS and agro, and nothing else. If a fight doesn't eward maximizing DPS, then something is wrong, right? </blockquote>Crab wasn't strategy whatsoever.  With a full x2 raid you literally have to sit there AFK with a t5 weapon and autoattack on to not risk spawning adds.  Or, you know, flat out suck at your class so your dps is so pitiful that adds have no chance of spawning regardless.  Maximizing DPS shows good raid setup and talented players, so yes, fights SHOULD reward it. And do you even raid?  Fights like Wuoshi most certainly require more strategy than just blindly dpsing until it's dead, and it doesn't have to rely on a cheap cop out of spawning more adds when don't suck at your class.

[Microbolt]

Poisonx@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><p>They want you to spec your deagro aa line!  or you'll have huge repair bills..</p></blockquote> Wont just be rangers dying now.  With them nerfing hate transfers more classes, even non scout classes will be pulling agro and dying.  I think they changed rangers deagro too.  Looks like it does a range now instead of an exact number (like 700-1400 now where i believe it used to be 1400, need to check to be 100% but thats what i remember)

[Terrifier]

<cite>Boramyr wrote:</cite><blockquote>What's worse is they don't have anyone on Test that tests high end raiding or they would know that Agro is already a pain in the rear to control.  That even with Stacking transfers to tanks and having troubs mitigate a wizard can pull aggro every time if he isn't careful as it is.  And its the same with all T1 dps.  With these changes it will be IMPOSSIBLE to hold aggro on raids.  GU36 sounded cool with the AA changes but with the Arrow Nerf and this soon to be Agro Debacle it looks like the worse update EVER!!!</blockquote> Actually there is a high end raid guild on test and we are growing stronger everyday. Give Test time to see how changes work and /bug the stuff thats messed up. If you want to help come make a character on test and be proactive with those of us trying to make a difference.

[EtoilePirate]

<cite>Boramyr wrote:</cite><blockquote>What's worse is they don't have anyone on Test that tests high end raiding or they would know that Agro is already a pain in the rear to control.  That even with Stacking transfers to tanks and having troubs mitigate a wizard can pull aggro every time if he isn't careful as it is.  And its the same with all T1 dps.  With these changes it will be IMPOSSIBLE to hold aggro on raids.  GU36 sounded cool with the AA changes but with the Arrow Nerf and this soon to be Agro Debacle it looks like the worse update EVER!!!</blockquote> There are actually a ton of 70s, and competing raid forces and guilds -- we all know what the deal with our aggro is.  Believe it or not we don't just spin on our thumbs every time we log in. My client took a year and a day to patch last night so I haven't yet had a chance to see how this affects my Assassin, but I'll know tonight.  Then I'll share. <b>Edited to Add:</b> Well, I haven't had a chance yet to see how it plays out in a group or in a raid, but I'm definitely going to have to be a lot more careful with the stabby buttons. <img src="http://etoilepb.com/eq2/threat.jpg" border="0">