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View Full Version : RANGER RESPONCES to test server changes.


THEWELL
06-13-2007, 01:49 AM
<p>1. Majority of ranger attacks are on a 1min+ timer.  If you reduce our damage to the point you have, with the length of our recast timers, we are no longer a Tier 1 dps class.</p><p>2.  If our CA damage gets reduced as much as it has on Test, then our recast timers need to be lowered for pvp.  If we cannot kill someone in the 1st 10 seconds of a fight, majority of our timers will not refresh intime to be able to continue to put out the dps that a Ranger should.</p><p>3.  If you examine the recast times of the other scouts...IE.... Brigands, Swash, Assassins,  you will see they are able to maintain longer fights because there timers are on shorter refresh.</p><p>4.  In longer fights the other scout classes are able to cylce though their CA's 2 -3 times.  Where as a Ranger can only cycle though the majority of his once every minute.  And when you lower the damage of all the Ranger CA's to be inline with the other scout classes, you have nerfed the ranger from his spot in T1 dps to that of a bard.</p><p>Other rangers please feel free, to post any other changes that have effected our class in the new pvp changes.  Please keep the post constructive!  </p><p>If you don't play a ranger, please start your own responce threads.</p>

THEWELL
06-13-2007, 02:11 AM
<p>In reguards to the Sniper Shot Changes.</p><p>I feel the damage reduction was unnecessary.  The PVE version does 5, 291 - 8, 788.  The PVP version was already nerfed to 3, 389 -5, 618.  And in reguards to pvp, it hardly ever hit anyone other then a caster for over 2k. ( with the 15% damage bonus AA line )</p><p>I understand your wanting the pvp fights to last longer.  However, you cannot group snipershot into the same lines as Decap or Harm Touch.</p><p>Harm Touch and Decap can be used in every fight as soon as the timer has refreshed.  Sniper Shot is an Extremly situational use only CA.  You can ask any ranger, and I can promise you that Sniper Shot is one of the less used CA's in PVP.</p><p>Being in stealth for 4 seconds while keeping ranged,  makes this CA EXTREMLY situational.  In a 2 -3 hour pvp session, I use my sniper shot maybe 2-3 times.   And I can guarentee you that Decap and HT would be used on pretty much every single fight, as soon as the recast was up.</p><p>If you want to reduce the damage that Sniper Shot does in PVP.  I have no problem with that.  But consider reducing the cast time to 1 second or less.  Therefore SniperShot will warrent the reduced damage, and be inline with HT and Decap.</p>

Cyst
06-13-2007, 02:35 AM
<p>I'm torn here. </p><p>I can just as easily kill casters without Sniper Shot, let alone with Sniper Shot. But, I also die horribly fast to Brigands and Assassins if they gain the initiative, and I can't get off any first shots. I fully believe something needs to be done for casters, but I'm not sure reducing damage is the answer because it will only empower healers. Not only that but Brigands, Assassins can dish out as much damage as a Ranger and they don't have to painfully fight to be at range to use their arts.</p><p>How do you copy a character to the test server so you can get a feel of the changes?</p>

THEWELL
06-13-2007, 02:41 AM
<p>In reguards to the nerf on Arrows.</p><p>This is by far the death blow to rangers.  Ranger's rely on the damage output of their arrows.  Yet you made them inline with throwing weapons?</p><p>Nerfing the arrows of rangers would be like nerfing every 1hs or duel wield to other scout classes.  I could see nerfing throwing weapons....majority of scouts don't rely on them for their dps. </p><p>Its not like we have tons of T7 Fabled bows to pick and choose from.  Where we lacked in available bows, we made up for it with the damage rating of arrows.</p><p>Arrows are a ranger's lifeline.  This will kill the ranger class.</p>

Skeptycal
06-13-2007, 03:21 AM
I do have a low level ranger ... not sure if I'll get any higher now =) As to the 10 second kill the OP refers to ... this is one of the things the devs have clearly stated they want to do away with. Having longer fights will make for less ganking and more actual.... well, fights. I'd like to see what the other gank classes see from the test server updates. If it is similar, then I'd say it's fair. If assassins can still kill you in 3 hits but rangers cant hide on the cliffs with their bows anymore, then something isn't quite done. In any event, my guardian and necro both welcome the changes. Longer fights is always better to allow everyone to use all of their class skills.

Rabbitoh
06-13-2007, 04:42 AM
<p><b>Worry about the changes to arrows</b>.</p><p>Rangers are the only class that really rely on their auto attack to lift their dps. When GU36 coes in rangers will certainly NOT be T1 dps</p><p>Arrows are now in line with thrown ammo. We are now useless in raids as well as limited in pvp.</p><p>Tell me why raids would put in a ranger instead of another scout class that adds buffs/debuffs?</p><p><b>Thanks devs for not understanding the ranger class yet again.</b></p><p>Molok Ranger of the guild Vigilante.</p>

Magius789
06-13-2007, 04:51 AM
<p>Just got done fighting on the test server for a few hours and here is what I've gathered.  I fought a templar, a brigand, a bruiser, and necro.</p><p>Fight with the Necro:  Over a couple of fights this the necro I got taunted by his pet a decent amount and his fear lasts a decent amount of time.  Some good fights he won some, I won some so I feel thats still pretty even.  The only times I had trouble with him is when he would run up to me and I'd rely on the snare's and roots that "might" be nerfed.  Those he usually one.</p><p>Fight the Brigand:  Would start out at max range and get the brig to a bit above half health before he got to me.  As soon as he was close to me it was always the same result. Stun and then a SIX second root, which I asked him to check the time on it and its six seconds, and the fight was over.  I won once out of 10 maybe and it was always the same.  Stun, six second root and none of my attacks worked other than melee and well I don't conisder those attacks.</p><p>Fight the the Templar: He just straight up beat the hell out of me.  Couldn't kite him for crap, his health never got out of the green.  Died</p><p>Fight with the Bruiser:  These fights were nasty.  If start at max range and I got the first attack it was ok.  He would teleport to right on top of me and then drag me around for a bit.  Most of the time as soon as he teleported to me I was dead.  I'd stun and root but it only lasts 2-4 seconds for the root and with 0 in combat run speed by the time the root broke I was still in melee range for him and had time for 1 bow attack if I was lucky.  He won 9 out of 10 times or pretty close.</p><p>All in all I think its almsot impossible to hold range on a target.  My sniper shot does 600 max dmg more than my Vieled Fire M1 so now not only is it a waste but it wastes space on my hotbar as well.  The roots get resisted more, if they do land only last a max of 4 seconds with the enhanced AA line, without the enhanced its 2 seconds.  Which doesn't matter anyway because they seem to break on the very next attack.  I had to use my sprint more in combat, didn't check the speed but seemed to be around 40%, which drains my power more.  I would sprint to out of max range and by the time the character got within range I could get off 1 maybe 2 if I'm lucky CA's before he was on top of me.  So if kept trying to kite him then you can do 1 attack and then have to use your bow snare attack, also seemed to not work well.  Characters never slowed down it seemed.</p><p>Edit: My out of combat run speed with Jboots was 66% and my sprint was 77% I think.  TOTALLY WORTHLESS addition if you ask me.  You remove something that is completely vital for us being able to attack someone and you replace it with this.....</p>

Bauer
06-13-2007, 08:12 AM
These changes are most worrying. Firstly, on these forums: The classes people were calling for balancing were <i>mainly</i> Swashbucklers, occasionally Brigands, Druids and Shadowknights due to HT. Very rarely is there a thread asking for a nerf on rangers; and the few that existed were from Enchanters and Summoners mainly. As those two archetypes, a ranger is your nemesis. Otherwise, why have rangers been so reduced in DPS? This essentially all a Ranger has, with some snare/root capability which is also being nerfed.. I'm all for making sure Sniper Shot is in line, so people don't get [Removed for Content] over sideways before they even know what's going on - that's a horrible feeling.. but if a (well geared) ranger gets a good, strategic jump on you, you should die. If you don't.. the damage is easily healed off/the ranger is locked in melee and the ranger is dead meat. Rangers can't cast while running.. the big damage CAs are mostly situational; in an open fight situation their Autoattack is the only thing they have going for them.

Necodem
06-13-2007, 08:16 AM
<p>Rofl at those rangers whinning.</p><p>Ranger are for now the GOD-mode pvper : lots of snare, root, stun, range attack long range and fast, heavy autoattack dmg, best CA dmg, run speed in combat. If you die in 1 vs 1 with this, it mean you really a noob. Yes ok brawler can kill rangers this drag, but that's all. And even if you're loosing, use cheated sprint and bybye.</p>

tiredang
06-13-2007, 09:52 AM
From reading what rangers and brigands have to say, it really does sound like they are going to have to start grouping as well to pvp.  They already do have the very nice ability to track which all pvp groups need, and it sounds like they're still doing good damage and rangers will be able to finish off the runners etc.

rvbarton
06-13-2007, 10:29 AM
<p>I have to say, I'm glad to hear about these changes.</p><p> Before, when a ranger was on top of me, it was stun, whack, stun, short pause while I try to get a ward off, stun or knock back, dead mystic.  If I was lucky enough to get away during the short pause, it was rain of arrows or double shot or something, and I was dead anyway.</p><p>Nice to hear the tables are  more balanced now.  Nice to hear Rangers will have to group to be effective in PVP now.  </p><p>Sounds like good balancing coming along.  I'm excited again.</p>

sprogn
06-13-2007, 10:47 AM
<cite>rvbarton wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I have to say, I'm glad to hear about these changes.</p><p> Before, when a ranger was on top of me, it was stun, whack, stun, short pause while I try to get a ward off, stun or knock back, dead mystic.  If I was lucky enough to get away during the short pause, it was rain of arrows or double shot or something, and I was dead anyway.</p><p>Nice to hear the tables are  more balanced now.  Nice to hear Rangers will have to group to be effective in PVP now.  </p><p>Sounds like good balancing coming along.  I'm excited again.</p></blockquote><p> Fascinating.  Could you show some combat logs please?  Last time I checked, Ranger's only had one stun - cheapshot.  And it was on a pretty long cast timer.</p><p>They have one knockdown they get through AA.  That's also on a very long timer.</p>

sprogn
06-13-2007, 10:49 AM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>Rofl at those rangers whinning.</p><p>Ranger are for now the GOD-mode pvper : lots of snare, root, stun, range attack long range and fast, heavy autoattack dmg, best CA dmg, run speed in combat. If you die in 1 vs 1 with this, it mean you really a noob. Yes ok brawler can kill rangers this drag, but that's all. And even if you're loosing, use cheated sprint and bybye.</p></blockquote><p> A ranger in EQ2 is defined by the ability to hit fast and hard.  They have high damage CA's on LONG timers to achieve this.  The problem is - if they get first shot, they can win a good few fights.</p><p>By lowering this DPS, SoE is going to prevent the fights being quite so easy for Rangers.</p><p>The problem here is there is no compensation for sustained DPS.  Once that burst is gone, Rangers are defenceless, and unable to provide ANY decent offence.</p><p>If SoE are intent on removing Ranger's spike damage, they need to rethink the class and give some form of ability to sustain a more moderate level of DPS throughout a fight.  Perhaps let them run backwards at the same speed as forwards so autoattack is actually useful.</p>

THEWELL
06-13-2007, 11:33 AM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>These changes are most worrying. Firstly, on these forums: The classes people were calling for balancing were <i>mainly</i> Swashbucklers, occasionally Brigands, Druids and Shadowknights due to HT. </blockquote><p> I couldn't agree more.  The majority of posts were about swash, brigs, druids and SK's HT.  I haven't seen a long post about ranger's needed nurfed in a long time.</p><p>As for the people who think Rangers were the GoD mode of pvp....that is far from the truth.  Swash's, Brigs, Fury's and Warden's would own ranger's a majority of the time.  That is, if they knew their class..and didn't just mash buttons.  </p><p>The ranger is one of the few classes that took a huge amount of skill to be good at solo pvp.  Keeping a range on target's isn't as easy as everyone thinks it is. </p><p>The ranger has had 11 nerf's sence pvp started...and I counted at least 6 more comming with the Test server changes.</p><p>That is more nerf's then ANY other class.  If ranger's were so overpowered, you would have seen thread after thread about it.  I havn't seen a ranger nerf thread in months.</p><p>And for the caster's that complain about dying before they know what hit them?   Its your own fault for not carrying see invis / stealth totems.  One quick casting spell, would break our invis..and stop your insta death.</p><p>Instead of learning to play your class....you scream for nerfs.  Lets make the ranger class soo gimped, that even a good ranger can't complete with a poor caster who doesn't know his class.</p>

Necodem
06-13-2007, 12:02 PM
THEWELL wrote: <blockquote><p>The ranger is one of the few classes that took a huge amount of skill to be good at solo pvp.  Keeping a range on target's isn't as easy as everyone thinks it is.</p></blockquote> Yeah you've right, hitting 2 button to down any mago, 4 to down anyone else if you at proper distance... someone coming to melee range, stun, snare x1million, root, run speed in combat.

Badaxe Ba
06-13-2007, 01:09 PM
<p>If the Dev's plan was to reduce Ranger's DPS, they have succeeded beyond their wildest dreams.  Testing early this morning on the pvp test server and parsing melee, I was able to win 50% of fights vs. a dirge.  Dps a bit over 200.  If I could keep ranged, dps climbed some, approximately 6-700.  If I could get to ranged.  The majority of fights ended up in melee, altho as opponents I had only dirge, bruiser, to test against.  Good fights for the most part, and a reminder of why I usually don't fight bruisers when I see them.  Teleport + stun makes for an unhappy ranger indeed.</p>

Elephanton
06-13-2007, 01:40 PM
<p>1. No in-combat speed increase + nerfed Leg Shot + 2 sec (haha!) root = dead ranger. How in the world we can make a distance with opponent now? We can't shoot in melee range! We can't shoot on the run!!</p><p>2. No sustained DPS (rangers never had) + nerfed burst DPS = can't kill anyone. Coupled with (1), can't even kite now while all our hits are recharging. Overall, nerfed coupled with manashield changed to 2:1 ratio ([Removed for Content]?) = no chance against wizzies/warlocks any longer. [Removed for Content], most of the times if a well geared (for mitigation) wizzy would pop his manashield at the right time (when he is in orange), I can't kill him NOW, without that DPS nerf.</p><p>Overall, you taking away what most people hav chosen the class for: burst DPS, and don't give anything in return. This WILL result in cancellations. </p><p>3. Hook Arrow : according to update notes, it does not work in PVP at all any longer. And it was never used in PVE. Useless skill now?</p><p>4. Sniper shot : useless now. It was very situational before, it is useless now. It has 5 sec cast time! Come on, I can fire about 3-4 other skills for the 5 sec + autoattack + offensive stance procs + poisons + other procs. That's twice as much damage!</p><p>Looks like list of useless ranger skills that I don't even have on my hotbar was just doubled: hawk dive, stream of arrows, and now welcome our root and sniper shot here... isn't that way too many for 1 class???</p><p>5. This is just ridiculous, half year whine on Sks, druids, swashies - and who gets nerfed hardest? Rangers, who had least complaints of all! Just clueless...</p><p>3 sickest changes in this update:</p><p>1. <b>Changing ranger root to 2 sec</b>. This is just plain stupid. This is same duration as our stun. Assuming that all people will upgrade it to 4 sec is just plain wrong. It costs 5 points and I would never want to go that route AA route with the Hook Arrow changes anyway.</p><p>2. <b>Removing ranger's ability to kite</b>, which is essential for ranger because most of our skills do not work in melee combat.</p><p>3. Increasing <b>manashield ratio to 2:1</b> along with <b>nerfing DPS</b> at the same time and fixing resists at T7 (this was needed). Result? Wizzies = new god mode. For god's sake, smart manashielded wizzy is god-mode now. My friend has around 40% mitigation on his warlock (dressed for miti - PVP server), well this is basically same as my ranger, but now they get 3 times more HP with manashield and other classes' DPS is nerfed along with it? This is insane!!!</p>

Myxzptlk
06-13-2007, 01:58 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>THEWELL wrote: <blockquote><p>The ranger is one of the few classes that took a huge amount of skill to be good at solo pvp.  Keeping a range on target's isn't as easy as everyone thinks it is.</p></blockquote> Yeah you've right, hitting 2 button to down any mago, 4 to down anyone else if you at proper distance... someone coming to melee range, stun, snare x1million, root, run speed in combat.</blockquote><p> Have you ever played a ranger? </p><p>I've played a Wizard to 60, a Berzerker to 70/100 aa, swash to mid twenties, templar, fury, assassin, brigand (lower levels) and a ranger, by far the ranger is the most complex of the one's i've tried, and really the reason i chose to play one, because with the other classes it was just line up the ca's/spells and mash away. THe ranger requires more thought to play than the other characters, imo, because of the unique dichotomy of ranged and melee considerations most other classes don't have. </p>

CresentBlade
06-13-2007, 02:49 PM
<p>This should of been done a long time ago. Scouts get so many different abilities they should not be excelling at them all. As a ranger you can track down targets for your group and make sure others dont sneak up on your group. You can also evac your group if you are jumped or out numbered or see a even con. You can also give group support with you bow. You should not have incredible damage your a support class, time to start playing as one. Leave the DPS to the wizards it what they are made to do.</p><p>Tanks:</p><p>Take a beating and protect others in their group.</p><p>Caster:</p><p>Crowd control and DPS</p><p>Healers:</p><p>Healing/ Damage prevention</p><p>Scouts:</p><p>Group utility, evac group to safety and track targets. Group speed buffs.</p><p>Welcome to EQ2 where every scout always loved to say L2P and its a GROUP game. Guess what my friends its time for YOU to L2P and get a group.</p>

orehn
06-13-2007, 03:13 PM
<cite>CresentBlade wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>This should of been done a long time ago. Scouts get so many different abilities they should not be excelling at them all. As a ranger you can track down targets for your group and make sure others dont sneak up on your group. You can also evac your group if you are jumped or out numbered or see a even con. You can also give group support with you bow. You should not have incredible damage your a support class, time to start playing as one. Leave the DPS to the wizards it what they are made to do.</p><p>Tanks:</p><p>Take a beating and protect others in their group.</p><p>Caster:</p><p>Crowd control and DPS</p><p>Healers:</p><p>Healing/ Damage prevention</p><p>Scouts:</p><p>Group utility, evac group to safety and track targets. Group speed buffs.</p><p>Welcome to EQ2 where every scout always loved to say L2P and its a GROUP game. Guess what my friends its time for YOU to L2P and get a group.</p></blockquote>Actually, if you read the class descriptions on the main EQ2 site you'll soon realize that both predator classes are listed as being able to do massive damage and get away quickly; not perform a support role.

Amphibia
06-13-2007, 03:35 PM
<cite>CresentBlade wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Leave the DPS to the wizards it what they are made to do.</p></blockquote>Hehehe, dude..... you're so way off I don't even know where to start. So an Assassin is not supposed to do DPS then? I know, I know! Let's remove all classes except Guardian, Templar, Wizard and ....eh Dirge perhaps. Yes, that sounds good. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

KannaWhoopass
06-13-2007, 04:07 PM
<p>I know why several classes are upset. </p><p>the i win buttons just fell off the hotbar. </p><p>the brigs/rangers/swashies will be upset the most. </p><p>These are people who ran arround solo for the past year, killing people solo. </p><p>Now they will need to work to do it, no more 4 second i win. </p><p>One of the complaints i have read was from a swashie who had to fight another class for 30 seconds. </p><p>And he was shcoked , i think he said it was "20 seconds too long" which was funny. He actually had to FIGHT.</p><p>Several of the scout classes have had it so easy for so long that they have no real adea on how to play. </p><p>for the most part , their strat involved 3 or 4 buttons. </p><p>I see the new scouts </p><p>1) hunting in pairs or groups.. (Not Bad)</p><p>2) Learning to use stuns and interupts at crutial times in the fights. </p><p>3) Using other poisons than caustic.</p><p>4) dusting off the LFG button. </p><p>If a scout lost to a zerker .. good .. </p><p>if a scout lost to a wizard .. ok not surprising if he PvP spec'd but id assume at least a 70% win ratio</p><p>if a scout lost to a plate wrapped healer .. i see no surprise there. </p><p>The scout classes were so far out of whack in PvP that it has been seen as expected thatthey should kill an opponent in 5 seconds!. </p><p>It is possible that if you are a ranger in PvP you excell at being the GROUP tracker.. and being a fantastic main assist for the GROUP ..as you acn stand out of taunt range and do great DPS. </p><p>Assasins can be in the melee with the GROUP and sneak up behind opponents in stealth and whack them. </p><p>Swashies will be great in GROUP combat as they can jump in the middle of the frey and AOE DPS .. when timed with a rift or other AOE will be devastating. </p><p>If you are a scout and die in SOLO PvP now, ok whats the problem .. where was it written </p><p>scouts will kill all opponents solo ... </p><p>The scouts will still be a force to deal with 1 v 1 . </p><p>They will still be sought after in every group for the speed buffs and tracking and grp stealth and high DPS. </p><p>The big complaint veiled behind all of the numbers calculations and Im gimped posts will be.</p><p>"Im no longer a SOLO god , I dont want to group with people" .. </p><p>If the changes have a large effect in PvE play .. i can see valid arguments. </p><p>because in PvE the classes seem balanced in the group and raid aspect. .. but PvP has always been off. </p><p>Look at the ratio of scout classes to others on PvP servers .. it easy to find the .. I win Button classes ..  </p><p>Look at the stats .. look at who is posting now.   </p><p>I dont mean this post to be as inflamitory as it sounds.. Scouts are still a powerfull and essential class.</p><p>the sky is not falling</p>

The_Real_Ohno
06-13-2007, 04:13 PM
I tried to test these changes... couldnt find anyone anywhere for over 2 hrs, I just gave up.  Guess Ill try later on.

Bawang
06-13-2007, 04:13 PM
<p>I'm worried by the ranger posts in this thread.  I hear mild whining, but I don't hear a desperate whelp at the sight of the approaching doom.  This tells me clearly the devs have not nearly gone far enough in downgrading ranger damage.  I have a sugestion for you rangers who wouldn't like to be nerfed harder:  Cry more.</p>

THEWELL
06-13-2007, 04:54 PM
<p>This thread is for rangers to post constructive feedback.  If your not a ranger, start your own feedback forum.  There is no reason for people to come here trying to start a flame war.  Ranger's are not crying at the nerfs.  We are expressing our opinions on the upcomming changes.  If you are looking for a flame war.  Go elsewhere.</p><p> Now back on topic.</p>

THEWELL
06-13-2007, 04:58 PM
<cite>CresentBlade wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>This should of been done a long time ago. Scouts get so many different abilities they should not be excelling at them all. As a ranger you can track down targets for your group and make sure others dont sneak up on your group. You can also evac your group if you are jumped or out numbered or see a even con. You can also give group support with you bow. You should not have incredible damage your a support class, time to start playing as one. Leave the DPS to the wizards it what they are made to do.</p><p>Tanks:</p><p>Take a beating and protect others in their group.</p><p>Caster:</p><p>Crowd control and DPS</p><p>Healers:</p><p>Healing/ Damage prevention</p><p>Scouts:</p><p>Group utility, evac group to safety and track targets. Group speed buffs.</p><p>Welcome to EQ2 where every scout always loved to say L2P and its a GROUP game. Guess what my friends its time for YOU to L2P and get a group.</p></blockquote>This is completly wrong.  Ranger's were NEVER a support class.  Ranger's were always listed as a T1 dps class.

KannaWhoopass
06-13-2007, 05:07 PM
<p>Ummm no </p><p>This is the PvP forum </p><p>The Ranger class has its forum to discuss rangers. </p><p>And the In testing feedback is the proper venu for expressing concerns. </p><p>Any opinions regarding PvP belong here.. </p>

Rob626
06-13-2007, 05:53 PM
<p>Can someone show me where Scouts were ever claimed by SOE to be T1 dps?</p><p> It seems to me that the T1 dps were always designed to be clothies, T2 was scouts because they had additional utility and heavier armor, T3 was tanks of all flavors because of increased survivability, and T4 was healers with.....well....heals.</p><p> Doesn't seem right that any T1 dps should have both dps, utility, and survivability.  Not scout hating, but there should be a definitive difference between the glass canons and the next dps rung down.  There should not be a blur between T1/T2 dps as I see so often posted.</p><p>I would like to know who promised scouts they would be T1 dps?  That man needs to be hung from meathooks and slowly peeled like a grape!</p><p>Majo, 49 Guard and Walking Token, Venekor</p>

Microbolt
06-13-2007, 06:00 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>I tried to test these changes... couldnt find anyone anywhere for over 2 hrs, I just gave up.  Guess Ill try later on.</blockquote><p> Not sure if your exile, but to find any pvp on test you almost have to be.  SS docks is where most seem to hang out that are wanting to test these changes.</p>

w1
06-13-2007, 07:21 PM
You are only getting damage reduction vs PC's, not NPC.  And learn how to spell response.  If you actually have a problem with these changes it just proves that you have no skill and can't survive without your sniping shot insta kill vs clothies button.  Well deserved nerf, owned.

THEWELL
06-13-2007, 07:30 PM
<cite>w1nz wrote:</cite><blockquote>You are only getting damage reduction vs PC's, not NPC.  And learn how to spell response.  If you actually have a problem with these changes it just proves that you have no skill and can't survive without your sniping shot insta kill vs clothies button.  Well deserved nerf, owned. </blockquote><p>If people would do a little research before spewing out crap that they have no idea what their talking about.</p><p>One of the nerfs was to all Arrows.  This effects both PVP and PVE.</p><p>Think before you speak.</p>

yohann koldheart
06-13-2007, 07:31 PM
 these changes are to harsh, they are lowering our ca's damage and pretty much eliminating a full line of our aa's. the snare and root duration reduction i can handle but the ca damage reduction is waaay out of wack, if that goes live well be t3 damage tops. anyone else see the changes to hook arrow? hook arrow will no longer summon your target to you. the whole reason to even work down this aa line is for hook, and now they are nerfing that too

tiredang
06-13-2007, 07:55 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote> these changes are to harsh, they are lowering our ca's damage and pretty much eliminating a full line of our aa's. the snare and root duration reduction i can handle but the ca damage reduction is waaay out of wack, if that goes live well be t3 damage tops. anyone else see the changes to hook arrow? hook arrow will no longer summon your target to you. the whole reason to even work down this aa line is for hook, and now they are nerfing that too </blockquote>Heh, thank all the t2 dreadnaught rangers for that nerf <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Edit to add: Hookshot did prove to be completely overpowered the way it was used -- though it's silly because it was easily avoidable (I got HS'ed once by my own stupidity trying to rez someone, but I blamed myself because I knew better).  I think the devs are trying to take away the very easy I WIN buttons, and hookshot was very much one of them.

Microbolt
06-13-2007, 08:11 PM
<cite>w1nz wrote:</cite><blockquote>You are only getting damage reduction vs PC's, not NPC.  And learn how to spell response.  If you actually have a problem with these changes it just proves that you have no skill and can't survive without your sniping shot insta kill vs clothies button.  Well deserved nerf, owned. </blockquote> Not all rangers use sniper shot.  98% of my kills I never used sniper shot.  Only time I ever use is for the knock back, not the damage.

w1
06-13-2007, 08:51 PM
<cite>THEWELL wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>w1nz wrote:</cite><blockquote>You are only getting damage reduction vs PC's, not NPC.  And learn how to spell response.  If you actually have a problem with these changes it just proves that you have no skill and can't survive without your sniping shot insta kill vs clothies button.  Well deserved nerf, owned. </blockquote><p>If people would do a little research before spewing out crap that they have no idea what their talking about.</p><p>One of the nerfs was to all Arrows.  This effects both PVP and PVE.</p><p>Think before you speak.</p></blockquote>Cry more plz tbh k thx.  Don't be mad cuz you have to use strategy now instead of mashing a few keys to get a kill.  Whaaaaaa whaaaaaaaa..... my brig is getting nerfed too, and for some reason my already "sh*tty in pvp" necro is getting a damage reduction too, but you don't see me whining like a girl

Mildavyn
06-13-2007, 09:12 PM
<cite>THEWELL wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>w1nz wrote:</cite><blockquote>You are only getting damage reduction vs PC's, not NPC.  And learn how to spell response.  If you actually have a problem with these changes it just proves that you have no skill and can't survive without your sniping shot insta kill vs clothies button.  Well deserved nerf, owned. </blockquote><p>If people would do a little research before spewing out crap that they have no idea what their talking about.</p><p>One of the nerfs was to all Arrows.  This effects both PVP and PVE.</p><p>Think before you speak.</p></blockquote><p>You guys need to lay off the rangers, earlier, when all they knew was that they were taking some nerfs and they were whining (yes, whining) about being made completely useless, you (and me as well) were fully justified in telling them to quit whining and that the sky isnt falling.</p><p>I've been thinking for a long time that rangers need nerfing, but this is incredible. They had some of their CAs cut in half, and now have to spend AAs to get it back (I know all about this, being a Troub) The arrow nerf was needed, as with things the way they are now a ranger almost never misses... ever.</p><p>Bottom line is this: The rangers are hurting. They are entitled to complain, now that they know what the nerf was and how large it was. Yes, easy-mode is no longer quite so easy, L2P and get a group etc. This IS a huge nerf though. </p>

Orthureon
06-13-2007, 09:13 PM
<p>Hmm this nerf will bring upon another nerf to a different class etc. The only balance is to rework all the classes from the ground up with some sort of utility to counter every other class in some way. The Ranger nerf is harsh, but aslong as your snare lasts for about 8-12s that will give you plenty of time to kite, isn't it currently 24s? They should still allow you to have a small in-combat movement speed say 5-10%. </p><p>Though it seems to me rather contradictory to want Hook Arrow. As far as I have read you all say you need to stay ranged, what then would be the purpose of bringing the enemy in close? I can understand the purposes in PVE, but in PVP the only uses I can think of are:</p><p>Pulling a freep into a guard</p><p>Pulling a green from a group to gank em</p><p>Being rooted by a caster and summoning them to you (wouldn't understand this one, since you are just as deadly as they are ranged)</p><p>In the next GU I can see it being used to grab a person since they will actually be able to flee if they need to haha.</p><p>P.S Whoever was using "reguard" it is driving me nuts, it is "regard".</p>

Cyst
06-13-2007, 09:17 PM
<p>Darkhain</p><p>Play a Ranger to level 50 and get 1500 PvP kills with him and post the screen shots.</p><p>Then play an Assassin, Swashbuckler, and Brigand and remember how many times they [Removed for Content] you, and realize how much more powerful those classes are than the Ranger.</p><p>I've always said I'd give up being able to kill casters in one or two shots, if I could survive more than two seconds against other scouts.</p>

Cyst
06-13-2007, 10:07 PM
They only got rid of "Hook Arrow" because it was the only way to prevent people from escaping on Griffons, Horses, Carpets, Clouds, et cetera and no one wants to fight on a PvP server, they want to run to protect their titles.

Norrsken
06-13-2007, 10:28 PM
<cite>Demron wrote:</cite><blockquote>They only got rid of "Hook Arrow" because it was the only way to prevent people from escaping on Griffons, Horses, Carpets, Clouds, et cetera and no one wants to fight on a PvP server, they want to run to protect their titles.</blockquote>Warlocks can still do this.

THEWELL
06-13-2007, 10:29 PM
<p>So hook shot is overpowered.....YET</p><p>Dragging people off of walls isn't?  Or the fact that drag works 100% of the time, and hook shot worked like 10%.</p>

Killque
06-14-2007, 12:02 AM
<p>Just an fyi.. Level 38 ranger....</p><p>(1181789754)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:54 2007] YOU are critically hit by Hidden Fire for 648 piercing damage. (1181789754)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:54 2007] YOU are hit by Quick Shot for 92 piercing damage. (1181789755)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:55 2007] Jeagon hits YOU for 229 piercing damage. (1181789756)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:56 2007] Jeagon's Triple Fire hits YOU for 79 piercing damage. (1181789756)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:56 2007] You get better at Defense (210/215). (1181789756)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:56 2007] Jeagon's Triple Fire hits YOU for 124 piercing damage. (1181789756)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:56 2007] Jeagon's Triple Fire hits YOU for 218 piercing damage. (1181789757)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:57 2007] Jeagon's Crippling Arrow critically hits YOU for 416 piercing damage. (118178975<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />[Wed Jun 13 21:55:58 2007] You say to the guild,"but hes 44" (1181789759)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:59 2007] Jeagon's Miracle Shot critically hits YOU for 363 piercing damage. (1181789759)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:59 2007] YOUR Dire Shroud absorbs 111 points of damage from being done to YOURSELF (1181789759)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:59 2007] Jeagon's caustic poison hits YOU but fails to inflict any damage. (1181789759)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:59 2007] Jeagon's Quick Shot hits YOU for 92 piercing damage. (1181789760)[Wed Jun 13 21:56:00 2007] Jeagon critically hits YOU for 250 piercing damage. (1181789760)[Wed Jun 13 21:56:00 2007] Jeagon's Quick Shot critically hits YOU for 119 piercing damage. (1181789761)[Wed Jun 13 21:56:01 2007] Jeagon's Trick Arrow hits YOU for 178 piercing damage. (1181789762)[Wed Jun 13 21:56:02 2007] YOUR Dire Shroud absorbs 34 points of damage from being done to YOURSELF (1181789762)[Wed Jun 13 21:56:02 2007] Jeagon's Flaming Shot hits YOU for 45 heat and 1 piercing damage. (1181789762)[Wed Jun 13 21:56:02 2007] Jeagon's Flaming Shot hits YOU for 69 heat and 1 piercing damage. 3067 dmg in 8 seconds</p><p> Are you all reeeally complaining??</p>

Magius789
06-14-2007, 12:24 AM
<cite>Killque wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Just an fyi.. Level 38 ranger....</p><p>(1181789754)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:54 2007] YOU are critically hit by Hidden Fire for 648 piercing damage. (1181789754)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:54 2007] YOU are hit by Quick Shot for 92 piercing damage. (1181789755)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:55 2007] Jeagon hits YOU for 229 piercing damage. (1181789756)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:56 2007] Jeagon's Triple Fire hits YOU for 79 piercing damage. (1181789756)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:56 2007] You get better at Defense (210/215). (1181789756)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:56 2007] Jeagon's Triple Fire hits YOU for 124 piercing damage. (1181789756)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:56 2007] Jeagon's Triple Fire hits YOU for 218 piercing damage. (1181789757)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:57 2007] Jeagon's Crippling Arrow critically hits YOU for 416 piercing damage. (118178975<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />[Wed Jun 13 21:55:58 2007] You say to the guild,"but hes 44" (1181789759)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:59 2007] Jeagon's Miracle Shot critically hits YOU for 363 piercing damage. (1181789759)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:59 2007] YOUR Dire Shroud absorbs 111 points of damage from being done to YOURSELF (1181789759)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:59 2007] Jeagon's caustic poison hits YOU but fails to inflict any damage. (1181789759)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:59 2007] Jeagon's Quick Shot hits YOU for 92 piercing damage. (1181789760)[Wed Jun 13 21:56:00 2007] Jeagon critically hits YOU for 250 piercing damage. (1181789760)[Wed Jun 13 21:56:00 2007] Jeagon's Quick Shot critically hits YOU for 119 piercing damage. (1181789761)[Wed Jun 13 21:56:01 2007] Jeagon's Trick Arrow hits YOU for 178 piercing damage. (1181789762)[Wed Jun 13 21:56:02 2007] YOUR Dire Shroud absorbs 34 points of damage from being done to YOURSELF (1181789762)[Wed Jun 13 21:56:02 2007] Jeagon's Flaming Shot hits YOU for 45 heat and 1 piercing damage. (1181789762)[Wed Jun 13 21:56:02 2007] Jeagon's Flaming Shot hits YOU for 69 heat and 1 piercing damage. 3067 dmg in 8 seconds</p><p> Are you all reeeally complaining??</p></blockquote> So in eight seconds you weren't able to select the ranger and hit him once but you were able to talk to your guild mates?  I smell something fishy!  <img src="/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Ibunubi
06-14-2007, 01:04 AM
<p>Rangers aren't even nerfed yet on Test, at least versus mages. Nothing has changed from my perspective except that Sniper Shot does 500 damage less to me. Rain of Arrows stills hits me for 3.5k.</p><p>I had one of the PvE rangers hit me with just auto-attack. All he does is is turn auto-attack on... Double attack with his ranged for 3k each, and I'm dead instantly. He did so with Wuoshi bow and Mayong bow. I hate you Rhaz!!</p><p>Physical damage for all classes seems to still need tweaking.</p>

THEWELL
06-14-2007, 01:17 AM
<cite>Ibunubi wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Rangers aren't even nerfed yet on Test, at least versus mages. Nothing has changed from my perspective except that Sniper Shot does 500 damage less to me. Rain of Arrows stills hits me for 3.5k.</p><p>I had one of the PvE rangers hit me with just auto-attack. All he does is is turn auto-attack on... Double attack with his ranged for 3k each, and I'm dead instantly. He did so with Wuoshi bow and Mayong bow. I hate you Rhaz!!</p><p>Physical damage for all classes seems to still need tweaking.</p></blockquote><p> Lol are you serious.  Your talking about the 2 top end bows of EQ2.  And on a pvp server.  How often are you even gonna see a situation like that.  If that ranger has those 2 bows...hes raiding more then pvping....so you have nothing to worry about.  </p><p>He's probably the only ranger on ANY pvp server with those bows.</p><p>NERF RHAZ IMO!!!</p>

Magius789
06-14-2007, 01:30 AM
<p>Edit: because I'm a newb who can't read.  He said it was a PvE ranger.....</p>

Mildavyn
06-14-2007, 01:32 AM
<p>(1181397692)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:32 2007] Ranger_01 critically hits YOU for 1648 crushing damage. (1181397692)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:32 2007] Ranger_01's Quick Shot hits YOU for 223 crushing damage. (1181397692)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:32 2007] Ranger_01 hits YOU for 1200 crushing damage. (1181397693)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:33 2007] You begin to play an incapacitation song. (1181397693)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:33 2007] Ranger_01's Triple Volley critically hits YOU for 147 crushing damage. (1181397693)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:33 2007] Ranger_01's gracelessness afflicts you. (1181397693)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:33 2007] Ranger_01's Triple Volley critically hits YOU for 334 crushing damage. (1181397693)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:33 2007] Ranger_01's Triple Volley critically hits YOU for 648 crushing damage. (1181397694)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:34 2007] You have entered into combat by casting Reverie on Ranger_01. (1181397694)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:34 2007] Ranger_01 was interrupted!</p><p>4200 damage in less than 2 seconds.</p><p>But at the same time...</p><p>(118178918<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />[Thu Jun 14 12:46:28 2007] You start fighting. (1181789189)[Thu Jun 14 12:46:29 2007] Ranger_02 hits YOU for 272 piercing damage. (1181789189)[Thu Jun 14 12:46:29 2007] Ranger_02's hemotoxin hits YOU for 121 poison damage. (1181789189)[Thu Jun 14 12:46:29 2007] You were interrupted! (1181789189)[Thu Jun 14 12:46:29 2007] YOUR Guviena's Overpowering Ovation hits Ranger_02 for 162 mental damage. (1181789189)[Thu Jun 14 12:46:29 2007] YOUR Guviena's Overpowering Ovation hits Ranger_02 for 193 mental damage. (1181789189)[Thu Jun 14 12:46:29 2007] Ranger_02 was interrupted! (1181789189)[Thu Jun 14 12:46:29 2007] Ranger_02 was interrupted! (1181789191)[Thu Jun 14 12:46:31 2007] Ranger_02's Rain of Arrows critically hits YOU for 1313 piercing damage. (1181789192)[Thu Jun 14 12:46:32 2007] YOUR Perfect Shrill critically hits Ranger_02 for 1056 mental damage. (1181789192)[Thu Jun 14 12:46:32 2007] YOUR Dissonant Note hits Ranger_02 for 306 mental damage. (1181789192)[Thu Jun 14 12:46:32 2007] Ranger_02 is struck with an inspired weapon! (1181789192)[Thu Jun 14 12:46:32 2007] YOUR Precise Note critically hits Ranger_02 for 316 mental damage. (1181789193)[Thu Jun 14 12:46:33 2007] Ranger_02's hemotoxin hits YOU for 121 poison damage. (1181789193)[Thu Jun 14 12:46:33 2007] Ranger_02 hits YOU for 174 piercing damage. (1181789193)[Thu Jun 14 12:46:33 2007] Ranger_02's hemotoxin hits YOU for 121 poison damage. (1181789193)[Thu Jun 14 12:46:33 2007] Your target is too far away!  Move closer! (1181789195)[Thu Jun 14 12:46:35 2007] YOU try to confound Ranger_02 with Steal Essence, but Ranger_02 resists. (1181789195)[Thu Jun 14 12:46:35 2007] You begin to play an impairment song. (1181789196)[Thu Jun 14 12:46:36 2007] YOUR Precise Note hits Ranger_02 for 230 mental damage. (1181789196)[Thu Jun 14 12:46:36 2007] Ranger_02's hemotoxin hits YOU for 121 poison damage.</p><p>There's 8 seconds for 2243 damage... i won this fight easily.</p><p>Depends on gear. Ranger_02 has no raid gear. Ranger_01 obviously does.</p>

THEWELL
06-14-2007, 01:53 AM
<cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Edit: because I'm a newb who can't read.  He said it was a PvE ranger.....</p></blockquote><p>Pett plays on nagafen.  So not sure what he means by PVE ranger.  Unless he has accepted that exiles are PVE not pvp. </p>

THEWELL
06-14-2007, 02:23 AM
<p>The honest difference about rangers in reguards to other scout classes.....</p><p>Rangers actually have to get the jump on someone...and when they do, its not much of a fight.</p><p>They have a much harder time in pvp vs the other scout  classes.  </p><p>You never see a ranger run strait up in your face pvp.  </p><p>There is no dispatch, devitalise, double up = dead.</p><p>There is no stun, freezing strike, decap = dead.</p><p>There is no Engaurd, Insparation = dead.</p><p>Rangers have to seriously pick there targets.  And the reason majority of players are upset is the simple fact, that if you die....you never saw it comming.  You were dead before you knew it.  Rangers are not in your face pvp.  If ranger's kill you....you were dead before you knew what happened....</p><p>But what everyone doest realise...is the fact...that this does not happen EVERY fight.  This is EXTREMELY situational.  It not like every time you fight a brigand, or swash...you know your gonna die.  </p><p>If you've gotten the jump on a ranger you know this is far from the truth.  If you get the jump on a ranger = dead ranger.</p><p>This is the biggest problems IMO about everyone wanting Ranger's nerfed.  Its not IN YOUR FACE pvp.  They never see it comming.</p><p> But one thing I promise you....in solo pvp, Swash, Brigs, and Assassin's...win a heck of alot more fights then rangers.  And they require half the skill. </p><p>Its not like ranger's can macro their attacks.  Trying to keep ranged makes this impossible.</p>

Ibunubi
06-14-2007, 02:39 AM
<cite>THEWELL wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ibunubi wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Rangers aren't even nerfed yet on Test, at least versus mages. Nothing has changed from my perspective except that Sniper Shot does 500 damage less to me. Rain of Arrows stills hits me for 3.5k.</p><p>I had one of the PvE rangers hit me with just auto-attack. All he does is is turn auto-attack on... Double attack with his ranged for 3k each, and I'm dead instantly. He did so with Wuoshi bow and Mayong bow. I hate you Rhaz!!</p><p>Physical damage for all classes seems to still need tweaking.</p></blockquote><p> Lol are you serious.  Your talking about the 2 top end bows of EQ2.  And on a pvp server.  How often are you even gonna see a situation like that.  If that ranger has those 2 bows...hes raiding more then pvping....so you have nothing to worry about.  </p><p>He's probably the only ranger on ANY pvp server with those bows.</p><p>NERF RHAZ IMO!!!</p></blockquote><p>We have 4 Mayong bows currently in Onyx. Rigid Scale Bow recipe hasn't dropped yet. You'll be seeing those bows soon on our rangers.</p><p>But on Test currently, it seems auto-attack is not scaled properly yet. Versus mages, your CA's don't have a noticeable difference so far on Test. Ohnoez hit me with Sniper Shot and Rain of Arrows, which still kills me. Only difference between Test and Live was that Sniper Shot did maybe 500 less damage. You're still able to sprint in PvP, but I don't know for much speed if you have the enhanced sprint.</p><p>And Exiles PvP enough. I'll definitely be out more than I have been when these changes go live.</p>

Armawk
06-14-2007, 03:54 AM
THEWELL wrote: <blockquote><p>Rangers are not in your face pvp.  If ranger's kill you....you were dead before you knew what happened....</p><p>But what everyone doest realise...is the fact...that this does not happen EVERY fight.  This is EXTREMELY situational.  It not like every time you fight a brigand, or swash...you know your gonna die.  </p><p>If you've gotten the jump on a ranger you know this is far from the truth.  If you get the jump on a ranger = dead ranger.</p><p>This is the biggest problems IMO about everyone wanting Ranger's nerfed.  Its not IN YOUR FACE pvp.  They never see it comming.</p></blockquote><p>This is certainly the kind of thing rangers <b>should</b> represent.. though it has to be hard hard hard to kill people without them having chance to fight back. People have to have an opportunity to avoid being zapped, any PVP hapening must involve two people not one. Hard to do for rangers/assassins I know, but rangers losing speed buffs seems very very sensible to me as a way to achieve this.</p><p>Shaun </p>

Kradun
06-14-2007, 07:20 AM
As a ranger...... I can say rangers are fine(for the most part -- I'll define this later after more testing) from what I played on test.  It just takes a lot of adjusting to fit a new form that the dev's are trying to put us into. I know when shock comes, it comes fast.  It always seems worse that it really is.  I suggest you make a test toon and learn to adjust early while it doesn't really hurt your live server toon.  I spent some 2 hours before I had to cook lunch and go out with the team to tweak my playstyle.  And as a matter of fact I'm not done testing.  Get on the test server while u can and look at th enew aa's and new changes to CA's.  Adjust adjust adjust.  We are by far better off that what happened to the brigands.  But also be careful on what you test on test in pvp... Many of the people there you will find are from NPU or SD and will kill you in about 2 seconds with their godly gear.  *** Edit but keep in mind its also because some of th eweapons are bugged and are not flagged for pvp.

rvbarton
06-14-2007, 08:16 AM
<cite>KannaWhoopass wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I know why several classes are upset. </p><p>the i win buttons just fell off the hotbar. </p><p>the brigs/rangers/swashies will be upset the most. </p><p>These are people who ran arround solo for the past year, killing people solo. </p><p>Now they will need to work to do it, no more 4 second i win. </p><p>One of the complaints i have read was from a swashie who had to fight another class for 30 seconds. </p><p>And he was shcoked , i think he said it was "20 seconds too long" which was funny. He actually had to FIGHT.</p><p>Several of the scout classes have had it so easy for so long that they have no real adea on how to play. </p><p>for the most part , their strat involved 3 or 4 buttons. </p><p>I see the new scouts </p><p>1) hunting in pairs or groups.. (Not Bad)</p><p>2) Learning to use stuns and interupts at crutial times in the fights. </p><p>3) Using other poisons than caustic.</p><p>4) dusting off the LFG button. </p><p>If a scout lost to a zerker .. good .. </p><p>if a scout lost to a wizard .. ok not surprising if he PvP spec'd but id assume at least a 70% win ratio</p><p>if a scout lost to a plate wrapped healer .. i see no surprise there. </p><p>The scout classes were so far out of whack in PvP that it has been seen as expected thatthey should kill an opponent in 5 seconds!. </p><p>It is possible that if you are a ranger in PvP you excell at being the GROUP tracker.. and being a fantastic main assist for the GROUP ..as you acn stand out of taunt range and do great DPS. </p><p>Assasins can be in the melee with the GROUP and sneak up behind opponents in stealth and whack them. </p><p>Swashies will be great in GROUP combat as they can jump in the middle of the frey and AOE DPS .. when timed with a rift or other AOE will be devastating. </p><p>If you are a scout and die in SOLO PvP now, ok whats the problem .. where was it written </p><p>scouts will kill all opponents solo ... </p><p>The scouts will still be a force to deal with 1 v 1 . </p><p>They will still be sought after in every group for the speed buffs and tracking and grp stealth and high DPS. </p><p>The big complaint veiled behind all of the numbers calculations and Im gimped posts will be.</p><p>"Im no longer a SOLO god , I dont want to group with people" .. </p><p>If the changes have a large effect in PvE play .. i can see valid arguments. </p><p>because in PvE the classes seem balanced in the group and raid aspect. .. but PvP has always been off. </p><p>Look at the ratio of scout classes to others on PvP servers .. it easy to find the .. I win Button classes ..  </p><p>Look at the stats .. look at who is posting now.   </p><p>I dont mean this post to be as inflamitory as it sounds.. Scouts are still a powerfull and essential class.</p><p>the sky is not falling</p></blockquote><p>Here here!</p><p> This was said better than I've read so far.  Kudos to you bro! </p>

The_Real_Ohno
06-14-2007, 01:47 PM
<cite>Kradun wrote:</cite><blockquote> *** Edit but keep in mind its also because some of th eweapons are bugged and are not flagged for pvp. </blockquote><p> LOL that was why Rhaz was pretty much 1 shottin ppl with auto-attack!  This is not a proper way to test these changes imo.  Oh well least theres actualy ppl there on the PvP test server now.</p><p>Also Aeralik said that ranged auto attack was still not toned down, I just hope he wasent going from what he seen Rhaz doing.  SS docks was crazy lastnight lol!</p>

Badaxe Ba
06-14-2007, 03:44 PM
<p>And how exactly did PvE toons get copied to test in the first place?  Seriously, how many PvP rangers actually have these fabled bows?  what exactly does this help with testing?  What might be reachable sometime in the future after ROK comes out?</p><p>I thought PvE toons weren't allowed to copy to test, some explanation from a DEV would be nice, otherwise I will suspect illegal copying.</p><p>edited >after rereading other posts, if these players have achieved the bows on PVP servers, then they are a very rare case indeed, and are certainly not representations of the majority of rangers in that case.  In any case, no mention has been made that bows were to receive a reduction at all, this has been done to melee DW weapons though, with a 6 point reduction in damage rating test vs live.  I checked this, but I don't know if the same thing has been done to 1-h weaons, as I didn't have one to check yet.</p>

dmshortrod
06-14-2007, 03:56 PM
<cite>THEWELL wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>In reguards to the Sniper Shot Changes.</p><p>I feel the damage reduction was unnecessary.  The PVE version does 5, 291 - 8, 788.  The PVP version was already nerfed to 3, 389 -5, 618.  And in reguards to pvp, it hardly ever hit anyone other then a caster for over 2k. ( with the 15% damage bonus AA line )</p><p>I understand your wanting the pvp fights to last longer.  However, you cannot group snipershot into the same lines as Decap or Harm Touch.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000">Harm Touch and Decap can be used in every fight as soon as the timer has refreshed.  Sniper Shot is an Extremly situational use only CA.  You can ask any ranger, and I can promise you that Sniper Shot is one of the less used CA's in PVP.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000">Being in stealth for 4 seconds while keeping ranged,  makes this CA EXTREMLY situational.  In a 2 -3 hour pvp session, I use my sniper shot maybe 2-3 times.   And I can guarentee you that Decap and HT would be used on pretty much every single fight, as soon as the recast was up.</span></p><p>If you want to reduce the damage that Sniper Shot does in PVP.  I have no problem with that.  But consider reducing the cast time to 1 second or less.  Therefore SniperShot will warrent the reduced damage, and be inline with HT and Decap.</p></blockquote><p>Wow! Now that is what I been trying to say for ever. People who nerver played a ranger don't under stand Sniper shot. I mean to go out and PvP tying to use that CA is worthless unless you come up on a bot. </p><p>With so many people using see steath and invis spells and totems, sneaking up on people is harder than it seams. </p><p>Sk can use HT in about 1-1.5 sec cast speed? and Decap 1-1.5 sec cast and use on the run? Ok well Rangers have to invis, take about 3 sec to cast and the Sniper shot cast time is about 3 or 4 sec. So if I can juat stand their and cast, it takes up to 7 sec to get sniper shot off. In that amout of time other class can already have cast 4-6 CA's in the time we get 1 off. In most cases we are on the run trying to kite, and we all know that 90% of the rangers CA ie: sniper shot has to be cast wile standing still. </p><p> So I have to say I might use my Sniper shot 5 times a day, and that mostly used on bots. </p>

Magius789
06-14-2007, 04:22 PM
<cite>dmshortrod wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>THEWELL wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>In reguards to the Sniper Shot Changes.</p><p>I feel the damage reduction was unnecessary.  The PVE version does 5, 291 - 8, 788.  The PVP version was already nerfed to 3, 389 -5, 618.  And in reguards to pvp, it hardly ever hit anyone other then a caster for over 2k. ( with the 15% damage bonus AA line )</p><p>I understand your wanting the pvp fights to last longer.  However, you cannot group snipershot into the same lines as Decap or Harm Touch.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000">Harm Touch and Decap can be used in every fight as soon as the timer has refreshed.  Sniper Shot is an Extremly situational use only CA.  You can ask any ranger, and I can promise you that Sniper Shot is one of the less used CA's in PVP.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000">Being in stealth for 4 seconds while keeping ranged,  makes this CA EXTREMLY situational.  In a 2 -3 hour pvp session, I use my sniper shot maybe 2-3 times.   And I can guarentee you that Decap and HT would be used on pretty much every single fight, as soon as the recast was up.</span></p><p>If you want to reduce the damage that Sniper Shot does in PVP.  I have no problem with that.  But consider reducing the cast time to 1 second or less.  Therefore SniperShot will warrent the reduced damage, and be inline with HT and Decap.</p></blockquote><p>Wow! Now that is what I been trying to say for ever. People who nerver played a ranger don't under stand Sniper shot. I mean to go out and PvP tying to use that CA is worthless unless you come up on a bot. </p><p>With so many people using see steath and invis spells and totems, sneaking up on people is harder than it seams. </p><p><b>Sk can use HT in about 1-1.5 sec cast speed?</b> and Decap 1-1.5 sec cast and use on the run? Ok well Rangers have to invis, take about 3 sec to cast and the Sniper shot cast time is about 3 or 4 sec. So if I can juat stand their and cast, it takes up to 7 sec to get sniper shot off. In that amout of time other class can already have cast 4-6 CA's in the time we get 1 off. In most cases we are on the run trying to kite, and we all know that 90% of the rangers CA ie: sniper shot has to be cast wile standing still. </p><p> So I have to say I might use my Sniper shot 5 times a day, and that mostly used on bots. </p></blockquote>The HT line is an insta cast, so it takes no time for them to cast it, just click and BOOM.

Norrsken
06-14-2007, 04:28 PM
<cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>dmshortrod wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>THEWELL wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>In reguards to the Sniper Shot Changes.</p><p>I feel the damage reduction was unnecessary.  The PVE version does 5, 291 - 8, 788.  The PVP version was already nerfed to 3, 389 -5, 618.  And in reguards to pvp, it hardly ever hit anyone other then a caster for over 2k. ( with the 15% damage bonus AA line )</p><p>I understand your wanting the pvp fights to last longer.  However, you cannot group snipershot into the same lines as Decap or Harm Touch.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000">Harm Touch and Decap can be used in every fight as soon as the timer has refreshed.  Sniper Shot is an Extremly situational use only CA.  You can ask any ranger, and I can promise you that Sniper Shot is one of the less used CA's in PVP.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000">Being in stealth for 4 seconds while keeping ranged,  makes this CA EXTREMLY situational.  In a 2 -3 hour pvp session, I use my sniper shot maybe 2-3 times.   And I can guarentee you that Decap and HT would be used on pretty much every single fight, as soon as the recast was up.</span></p><p>If you want to reduce the damage that Sniper Shot does in PVP.  I have no problem with that.  But consider reducing the cast time to 1 second or less.  Therefore SniperShot will warrent the reduced damage, and be inline with HT and Decap.</p></blockquote><p>Wow! Now that is what I been trying to say for ever. People who nerver played a ranger don't under stand Sniper shot. I mean to go out and PvP tying to use that CA is worthless unless you come up on a bot. </p><p>With so many people using see steath and invis spells and totems, sneaking up on people is harder than it seams. </p><p><b>Sk can use HT in about 1-1.5 sec cast speed?</b> and Decap 1-1.5 sec cast and use on the run? Ok well Rangers have to invis, take about 3 sec to cast and the Sniper shot cast time is about 3 or 4 sec. So if I can juat stand their and cast, it takes up to 7 sec to get sniper shot off. In that amout of time other class can already have cast 4-6 CA's in the time we get 1 off. In most cases we are on the run trying to kite, and we all know that 90% of the rangers CA ie: sniper shot has to be cast wile standing still. </p><p> So I have to say I might use my Sniper shot 5 times a day, and that mostly used on bots. </p></blockquote>The HT line is an insta cast, so it takes no time for them to cast it, just click and BOOM. </blockquote>And decapitate is .5 seconds. the difference between 0 and .5 seconds in relation to human reaction times is not a very big one. Especially not considering the network lag. One might even argue that 1 second is not different from 0. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

silentpsycho
06-14-2007, 04:54 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>dmshortrod wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>THEWELL wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>In reguards to the Sniper Shot Changes.</p><p>I feel the damage reduction was unnecessary.  The PVE version does 5, 291 - 8, 788.  The PVP version was already nerfed to 3, 389 -5, 618.  And in reguards to pvp, it hardly ever hit anyone other then a caster for over 2k. ( with the 15% damage bonus AA line )</p><p>I understand your wanting the pvp fights to last longer.  However, you cannot group snipershot into the same lines as Decap or Harm Touch.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000">Harm Touch and Decap can be used in every fight as soon as the timer has refreshed.  Sniper Shot is an Extremly situational use only CA.  You can ask any ranger, and I can promise you that Sniper Shot is one of the less used CA's in PVP.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000">Being in stealth for 4 seconds while keeping ranged,  makes this CA EXTREMLY situational.  In a 2 -3 hour pvp session, I use my sniper shot maybe 2-3 times.   And I can guarentee you that Decap and HT would be used on pretty much every single fight, as soon as the recast was up.</span></p><p>If you want to reduce the damage that Sniper Shot does in PVP.  I have no problem with that.  But consider reducing the cast time to 1 second or less.  Therefore SniperShot will warrent the reduced damage, and be inline with HT and Decap.</p></blockquote><p>Wow! Now that is what I been trying to say for ever. People who nerver played a ranger don't under stand Sniper shot. I mean to go out and PvP tying to use that CA is worthless unless you come up on a bot. </p><p>With so many people using see steath and invis spells and totems, sneaking up on people is harder than it seams. </p><p><b>Sk can use HT in about 1-1.5 sec cast speed?</b> and Decap 1-1.5 sec cast and use on the run? Ok well Rangers have to invis, take about 3 sec to cast and the Sniper shot cast time is about 3 or 4 sec. So if I can juat stand their and cast, it takes up to 7 sec to get sniper shot off. In that amout of time other class can already have cast 4-6 CA's in the time we get 1 off. In most cases we are on the run trying to kite, and we all know that 90% of the rangers CA ie: sniper shot has to be cast wile standing still. </p><p> So I have to say I might use my Sniper shot 5 times a day, and that mostly used on bots. </p></blockquote>The HT line is an insta cast, so it takes no time for them to cast it, just click and BOOM. </blockquote>And decapitate is .5 seconds. the difference between 0 and .5 seconds in relation to human reaction times is not a very big one. Especially not considering the network lag. One might even argue that 1 second is not different from 0. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote><p>Yes, it casts as fast as any melee CA because, well, it's a melee CA.  Plus, you have to be in stealth and exactly behind the person you are targeting.  It is no where near as easy as sneaking up on someone *outside* the automatic see stealth range and plucking away at them with deadly bow strikes at a nice and safe distance, say from a cliff they can't get up.  As an assasin, you have to get up close and personal with your target, and they certainly see you coming wether they have totems or not, and they have to stand still and let you get behind them while fighting.   Assasins have exactly one short stun, one root and one snare.  Using these tools, well played, an assasin can be (used to be?) deadly, but the target has a chance, if also well played, to kill you too.  I think this is what differentiates the predators, and what ticks people off about rangers more than assasins in PVP.  With rangers, you are usually dead before you even see them.  Assasins, at least you know why you died 9 times out of 10, and you had a chance to do something about it.</p><p>Edit: Sniper shot is situational mostly because rangers like to hide in places that people can't get to easily, which limits their mobility.  Yeah, it might be rare that people stand perfectly in position to your spot on the cliff overlooking the cloud platform you are camping, but heh, you don't even need it to effectively one shot them so...</p>

Luxun
06-14-2007, 04:55 PM
<i>I feel sorry for rangers ....its not like they were so overpowered as it as anyway, they are getting the biggets nerf bat around here. </i>

Qanil
06-14-2007, 05:04 PM
<cite>Luxun wrote:</cite><blockquote><i>I feel sorry for rangers ....its not like they were so overpowered as it as anyway, they are getting the biggets nerf bat around here. </i></blockquote><p>No, the Brigand is taking it in every orifice.  Any "decent" ranger will still own face.   People like stylin up there that are notoriously known for sucking at their class and this game are crying a river.   Face it Stylin, you sucked before, and now you're really going to suck.  You might want to ask yourself why, and actually learning to play instead of crying so much.  </p><p>Kradun is likely the best Ranger on Nagafen, and he'll still own face. You'll see.  Check his gear, you've got better and he'd simply own you and most of everyone else.  </p><p>It'll be interesting to see how things work out.  No class should be designated as the "top" class.  This means you solo artists.  You wanna solo, it should be with high risk, and with great skill that you can pull off "ganking." instead of it being "defined for you by class choice."   Scouts still have track and evac... the two most overpowered skills in this entire game...  you'll still have good dps... it's just now you'll have to learn to play differently.</p><p>Oh, and before you go and open your pie holes... I have a T7 brig, ranger, dirge, sk, and zerker, and I'm happy as all get up some of the playing field is being levelled out.  Do I agree with all of it?  Of course not, but wouldn't you like to fight more?  A lot of these classes simply dont even leave town, or have given up entirely on PvP because it's ganker rogues and predators that are out destroying people in seconds.  </p>

silentpsycho
06-14-2007, 05:08 PM
<cite>Luxun wrote:</cite><blockquote><i>I feel sorry for rangers ....its not like they were so overpowered as it as anyway, they are getting the biggets nerf bat around here. </i></blockquote> I say - keep the damage nerfs, they are long overdue (across the board).  In combat run speed was used more for evasion after a gank gone wrong than kiting, in my experience. Usually, sort of an in-combat evac which we all think is bad, right?  But, give Rangers back their snare and root durations.  That was too much, and these are the tools that differentiate a good ranger from a poor one, IMHO.

silentpsycho
06-14-2007, 05:19 PM
<p>Edit: sorry, wrong thread</p>

shagr1414
06-14-2007, 06:53 PM
<cite>THEWELL wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>These changes are most worrying. Firstly, on these forums: The classes people were calling for balancing were <i>mainly</i> Swashbucklers, occasionally Brigands, Druids and Shadowknights due to HT. </blockquote><p> I couldn't agree more.  The majority of posts were about swash, brigs, druids and SK's HT.  I haven't seen a long post about ranger's needed nurfed in a long time.</p><p>As for the people who think Rangers were the GoD mode of pvp....that is far from the truth.  Swash's, Brigs, Fury's and Warden's would own ranger's a majority of the time.  That is, if they knew their class..and didn't just mash buttons.  </p><p>The ranger is one of the few classes that took a huge amount of skill to be good at solo pvp.  Keeping a range on target's isn't as easy as everyone thinks it is. </p><p>The ranger has had 11 nerf's sence pvp started...and I counted at least 6 more comming with the Test server changes.</p><p>That is more nerf's then ANY other class.  If ranger's were so overpowered, you would have seen thread after thread about it.  I havn't seen a ranger nerf thread in months.</p><p>And for the caster's that complain about dying before they know what hit them?   Its your own fault for not carrying see invis / stealth totems.  One quick casting spell, would break our invis..and stop your insta death.</p><p>Instead of learning to play your class....you scream for nerfs.  Lets make the ranger class soo gimped, that even a good ranger can't complete with a poor caster who doesn't know his class.</p></blockquote>Ummm tell us please just how skilled one needs to be to #1 Stealth, #2 track, #3 complie all ca's into a few macros, #4 drop a caster in 2 seconds.  Sorry I do not feel your pain and to be honest I beleive ALL macros should be removed from pvp.   And I'm sorry sir, but there is thread after thread after thread about rangers being OP. Your obvious denial does not count as it not being a known fact that a ranger can take a plate tank down in less then 4 seconds, the game is only enjoybale atm for rangers because you are the top dogs in t7 pvp.  Yes a healer may be troublesome at times if they catch you first, but otherwise, none other is as effective in dropping any class as fast as a ranger can in its current state.  Please enlighten all of us casters who drop b4 we know what's hitting us, educate us to play our classes, cause ramming a hand thru a window is a lot more fun than the game is at this current moment.  We do carry totems, yet this doesnt do much when we are down to 6-9 attacks in less than 2 seconds. If the devs were smart they would remove the macro abilites to throw multiple Ca's into one macro.  No other class is doing this and most rangers do nothing but deny it yet there is a few posts that even show ya how to set it all up as a ranger. Stop whining and play the game, not like mages haven't had to adapt to the SKILLED playstyles of rangers already, now its your turn.

shagr1414
06-14-2007, 06:57 PM
<cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Just got done fighting on the test server for a few hours and here is what I've gathered.  I fought a templar, a brigand, a bruiser, and necro.</p><p>Fight with the Necro:  Over a couple of fights this the necro I got taunted by his pet a decent amount and his fear lasts a decent amount of time.  Some good fights he won some, I won some so I feel thats still pretty even.  The only times I had trouble with him is when he would run up to me and I'd rely on the snare's and roots that "might" be nerfed.  Those he usually one.</p><p>Fight the Brigand:  Would start out at max range and get the brig to a bit above half health before he got to me.  As soon as he was close to me it was always the same result. Stun and then a SIX second root, which I asked him to check the time on it and its six seconds, and the fight was over.  I won once out of 10 maybe and it was always the same.  Stun, six second root and none of my attacks worked other than melee and well I don't conisder those attacks.</p><p>Fight the the Templar: He just straight up beat the hell out of me.  Couldn't kite him for crap, his health never got out of the green.  Died</p><p>Fight with the Bruiser:  These fights were nasty.  If start at max range and I got the first attack it was ok.  He would teleport to right on top of me and then drag me around for a bit.  Most of the time as soon as he teleported to me I was dead.  I'd stun and root but it only lasts 2-4 seconds for the root and with 0 in combat run speed by the time the root broke I was still in melee range for him and had time for 1 bow attack if I was lucky.  He won 9 out of 10 times or pretty close.</p><p>All in all I think its almsot impossible to hold range on a target.  My sniper shot does 600 max dmg more than my Vieled Fire M1 so now not only is it a waste but it wastes space on my hotbar as well.  The roots get resisted more, if they do land only last a max of 4 seconds with the enhanced AA line, without the enhanced its 2 seconds.  Which doesn't matter anyway because they seem to break on the very next attack.  I had to use my sprint more in combat, didn't check the speed but seemed to be around 40%, which drains my power more.  I would sprint to out of max range and by the time the character got within range I could get off 1 maybe 2 if I'm lucky CA's before he was on top of me.  So if kept trying to kite him then you can do 1 attack and then have to use your bow snare attack, also seemed to not work well.  Characters never slowed down it seemed.</p><p>Edit: My out of combat run speed with Jboots was 66% and my sprint was 77% I think.  TOTALLY WORTHLESS addition if you ask me.  You remove something that is completely vital for us being able to attack someone and you replace it with this.....</p></blockquote>Ummm dude....casters are lucky if one spell gets casted and your whining cause you might only get 2 CA's off.....???  I SOOOOOOOO FEEL YOUR AGONY!!!

shagr1414
06-14-2007, 07:05 PM
<cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>1. No in-combat speed increase + nerfed Leg Shot + 2 sec (haha!) root = dead ranger. How in the world we can make a distance with opponent now? We can't shoot in melee range! We can't shoot on the run!!</p><p><span style="color: #cc3366">How you expect casters to cast, same idea now its your turn.</span></p><p>2. No sustained DPS (rangers never had) + nerfed burst DPS = can't kill anyone. Coupled with (1), can't even kite now while all our hits are recharging. Overall, nerfed coupled with manashield changed to 2:1 ratio ([I cannot control my vocabulary]?) = no chance against wizzies/warlocks any longer. [I cannot control my vocabulary], most of the times if a well geared (for mitigation) wizzy would pop his manashield at the right time (when he is in orange), I can't kill him NOW, without that DPS nerf.</p><p><span style="color: #cc3399">Still yet to understand why you should be any different than any other class.  Sustained dps would require actually GETTING A CAST OFF.</span></p><p>Overall, you taking away what most people hav chosen the class for: burst DPS, and don't give anything in return. This WILL result in cancellations. </p><p>3. Hook Arrow : according to update notes, it does not work in PVP at all any longer. And it was never used in PVE. Useless skill now?</p><p>4. Sniper shot : useless now. It was very situational before, it is useless now. It has 5 sec cast time! Come on, I can fire about 3-4 other skills for the 5 sec + autoattack + offensive stance procs + poisons + other procs. That's twice as much damage!</p><p><span style="color: #cc33cc">Lifeburn 10 seconds casts needs 30 seconds to cycle Ooooooohhhh i sooooo feeeeeel your pain now!!!</span></p><p>Looks like list of useless ranger skills that I don't even have on my hotbar was just doubled: hawk dive, stream of arrows, and now welcome our root and sniper shot here... isn't that way too many for 1 class???</p><p>5. This is just ridiculous, half year whine on Sks, druids, swashies - and who gets nerfed hardest? Rangers, who had least complaints of all! Just clueless...</p><p>3 sickest changes in this update:</p><p>1. <b>Changing ranger root to 2 sec</b>. This is just plain stupid. This is same duration as our stun. Assuming that all people will upgrade it to 4 sec is just plain wrong. It costs 5 points and I would never want to go that route AA route with the Hook Arrow changes anyway.</p><p><span style="color: #cc3333">Rofl at least you get to cast it, mages usually stunned and if it actually does get casted its resisted, again though we mages feel your agony.</span></p><p>2. <b>Removing ranger's ability to kite</b>, which is essential for ranger because most of our skills do not work in melee combat.</p><p>3. Increasing <b>manashield ratio to 2:1</b> along with <b>nerfing DPS</b> at the same time and fixing resists at T7 (this was needed). Result? Wizzies = new god mode. For god's sake, smart manashielded wizzy is god-mode now. My friend has around 40% mitigation on his warlock (dressed for miti - PVP server), well this is basically same as my ranger, but now they get 3 times more HP with manashield and other classes' DPS is nerfed along with it? This is insane!!!</p></blockquote>All in all your post was rather constructive, but sorry we just don't care to hear your pointless whines about how you can't 2 sec kill no more...Really though I think WoW is still accepting Rogues that can go to lvl 70 and gank lvl 1's if you want that thrill.

shagr1414
06-14-2007, 07:08 PM
<cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>CresentBlade wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Leave the DPS to the wizards it what they are made to do.</p></blockquote>Hehehe, dude..... you're so way off I don't even know where to start. So an Assassin is not supposed to do DPS then? I know, I know! Let's remove all classes except Guardian, Templar, Wizard and ....eh Dirge perhaps. Yes, that sounds good. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote><p> Amazing though as in lore and as its intended to be, wizards seem to be able to solo ^^^70+ mobs yet a ranger get's its lunch eaten....ooops nm didn't wanna spoil your BS about lore and all bud.....Wizzies are dps rangers are utility by lore, hence lets go a bit overboard here.  </p><p>Legolas vs The witch king = Crispy elf plain and simple......oh well must be the DREAM lore of the eq rangers we see....</p>

Killque
06-14-2007, 07:19 PM
<cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Killque wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Just an fyi.. Level 38 ranger....</p><p>(1181789754)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:54 2007] YOU are critically hit by Hidden Fire for 648 piercing damage. (1181789754)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:54 2007] YOU are hit by Quick Shot for 92 piercing damage. (1181789755)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:55 2007] Jeagon hits YOU for 229 piercing damage. (1181789756)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:56 2007] Jeagon's Triple Fire hits YOU for 79 piercing damage. (1181789756)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:56 2007] You get better at Defense (210/215). (1181789756)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:56 2007] Jeagon's Triple Fire hits YOU for 124 piercing damage. (1181789756)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:56 2007] Jeagon's Triple Fire hits YOU for 218 piercing damage. (1181789757)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:57 2007] Jeagon's Crippling Arrow critically hits YOU for 416 piercing damage. (118178975<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />[Wed Jun 13 21:55:58 2007] You say to the guild,"but hes 44" (1181789759)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:59 2007] Jeagon's Miracle Shot critically hits YOU for 363 piercing damage. (1181789759)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:59 2007] YOUR Dire Shroud absorbs 111 points of damage from being done to YOURSELF (1181789759)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:59 2007] Jeagon's caustic poison hits YOU but fails to inflict any damage. (1181789759)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:59 2007] Jeagon's Quick Shot hits YOU for 92 piercing damage. (1181789760)[Wed Jun 13 21:56:00 2007] Jeagon critically hits YOU for 250 piercing damage. (1181789760)[Wed Jun 13 21:56:00 2007] Jeagon's Quick Shot critically hits YOU for 119 piercing damage. (1181789761)[Wed Jun 13 21:56:01 2007] Jeagon's Trick Arrow hits YOU for 178 piercing damage. (1181789762)[Wed Jun 13 21:56:02 2007] YOUR Dire Shroud absorbs 34 points of damage from being done to YOURSELF (1181789762)[Wed Jun 13 21:56:02 2007] Jeagon's Flaming Shot hits YOU for 45 heat and 1 piercing damage. (1181789762)[Wed Jun 13 21:56:02 2007] Jeagon's Flaming Shot hits YOU for 69 heat and 1 piercing damage. 3067 dmg in 8 seconds</p><p> Are you all reeeally complaining??</p></blockquote> So in eight seconds you weren't able to select the ranger and hit him once but you were able to talk to your guild mates?  I smell something fishy!  <img src="/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote><p> I was standing right next to the catapult in zek. </p><p>I had already typed the message, it took me a second to hit enter to send it..</p><p>I clicked on the catapult once I realized I wasnt going to be doing anything ..</p>

Cyst
06-14-2007, 08:29 PM
<cite>Killque wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Killque wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Just an fyi.. Level 38 ranger....</p><p>(1181789754)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:54 2007] YOU are critically hit by Hidden Fire for 648 piercing damage. (1181789754)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:54 2007] YOU are hit by Quick Shot for 92 piercing damage. (1181789755)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:55 2007] Jeagon hits YOU for 229 piercing damage. (1181789756)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:56 2007] Jeagon's Triple Fire hits YOU for 79 piercing damage. (1181789756)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:56 2007] You get better at Defense (210/215). (1181789756)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:56 2007] Jeagon's Triple Fire hits YOU for 124 piercing damage. (1181789756)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:56 2007] Jeagon's Triple Fire hits YOU for 218 piercing damage. (1181789757)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:57 2007] Jeagon's Crippling Arrow critically hits YOU for 416 piercing damage. (118178975<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />[Wed Jun 13 21:55:58 2007] You say to the guild,"but hes 44" (1181789759)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:59 2007] Jeagon's Miracle Shot critically hits YOU for 363 piercing damage. (1181789759)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:59 2007] YOUR Dire Shroud absorbs 111 points of damage from being done to YOURSELF (1181789759)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:59 2007] Jeagon's caustic poison hits YOU but fails to inflict any damage. (1181789759)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:59 2007] Jeagon's Quick Shot hits YOU for 92 piercing damage. (1181789760)[Wed Jun 13 21:56:00 2007] Jeagon critically hits YOU for 250 piercing damage. (1181789760)[Wed Jun 13 21:56:00 2007] Jeagon's Quick Shot critically hits YOU for 119 piercing damage. (1181789761)[Wed Jun 13 21:56:01 2007] Jeagon's Trick Arrow hits YOU for 178 piercing damage. (1181789762)[Wed Jun 13 21:56:02 2007] YOUR Dire Shroud absorbs 34 points of damage from being done to YOURSELF (1181789762)[Wed Jun 13 21:56:02 2007] Jeagon's Flaming Shot hits YOU for 45 heat and 1 piercing damage. (1181789762)[Wed Jun 13 21:56:02 2007] Jeagon's Flaming Shot hits YOU for 69 heat and 1 piercing damage. 3067 dmg in 8 seconds</p><p> Are you all reeeally complaining??</p></blockquote> So in eight seconds you weren't able to select the ranger and hit him once but you were able to talk to your guild mates?  I smell something fishy!  <img src="/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote><p> I was standing right next to the catapult in zek. </p><p>I had already typed the message, it took me a second to hit enter to send it..</p><p>I clicked on the catapult once I realized I wasnt going to be doing anything ..</p></blockquote>Wow Kill your defense was NINE POINTS below maximum meaning you were missing close to 10% avoidance for someone of equal level to you. It's no wonder people whine about dying.

EQGu
06-15-2007, 12:22 AM
i welcome the changes.. now the newbs will be weeded out i heard the changes werent too bad.

Elephanton
06-15-2007, 09:21 AM
<cite>shagr1414 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>1. No in-combat speed increase + nerfed Leg Shot + 2 sec (haha!) root = dead ranger. How in the world we can make a distance with opponent now? We can't shoot in melee range! We can't shoot on the run!!</p><p><span style="color: #cc3366">How you expect casters to cast, same idea now its your turn.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00">LOL are you really so stupid or you just act as one? Casters can still cast all of their spells in melee range. Rangers cannot.</span></p><p>2. No sustained DPS (rangers never had) + nerfed burst DPS = can't kill anyone. Coupled with (1), can't even kite now while all our hits are recharging. Overall, nerfed coupled with manashield changed to 2:1 ratio ([I cannot control my vocabulary]?) = no chance against wizzies/warlocks any longer. [I cannot control my vocabulary], most of the times if a well geared (for mitigation) wizzy would pop his manashield at the right time (when he is in orange), I can't kill him NOW, without that DPS nerf.</p><p><span style="color: #cc3399">Still yet to understand why you should be any different than any other class.  Sustained dps would require actually GETTING A CAST OFF.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00">So what is your problem? Root and nuke non-stop! I have 3 mages from my 7 chars so believe me I know what is it to play a mage.</span></p><p>Overall, you taking away what most people hav chosen the class for: burst DPS, and don't give anything in return. This WILL result in cancellations. </p><p>3. Hook Arrow : according to update notes, it does not work in PVP at all any longer. And it was never used in PVE. Useless skill now?</p><p>4. Sniper shot : useless now. It was very situational before, it is useless now. It has 5 sec cast time! Come on, I can fire about 3-4 other skills for the 5 sec + autoattack + offensive stance procs + poisons + other procs. That's twice as much damage!</p><p><span style="color: #cc33cc">Lifeburn 10 seconds casts needs 30 seconds to cycle Ooooooohhhh i sooooo feeeeeel your pain now!!!</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00">Actually lifeburn is 5 sec cast and it is easy to do while your opponent is running in fear... did you even play a necro? Cause you say stupid things...</span></p><p>Looks like list of useless ranger skills that I don't even have on my hotbar was just doubled: hawk dive, stream of arrows, and now welcome our root and sniper shot here... isn't that way too many for 1 class???</p><p>5. This is just ridiculous, half year whine on Sks, druids, swashies - and who gets nerfed hardest? Rangers, who had least complaints of all! Just clueless...</p><p>3 sickest changes in this update:</p><p>1. <b>Changing ranger root to 2 sec</b>. This is just plain stupid. This is same duration as our stun. Assuming that all people will upgrade it to 4 sec is just plain wrong. It costs 5 points and I would never want to go that route AA route with the Hook Arrow changes anyway.</p><p><span style="color: #cc3333">Rofl at least you get to cast it, mages usually stunned and if it actually does get casted its resisted, again though we mages feel your agony.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00">Dude let me open your eyes here: you can use potions or very cheap status items that give you immunity from stuns for a whole fight. If you don't even know/use these things while playing a mage than don't bother posting your opinions here. Opinions from noobs are not needed or welcome.</span></p><p>2. <b>Removing ranger's ability to kite</b>, which is essential for ranger because most of our skills do not work in melee combat.</p><p>3. Increasing <b>manashield ratio to 2:1</b> along with <b>nerfing DPS</b> at the same time and fixing resists at T7 (this was needed). Result? Wizzies = new god mode. For god's sake, smart manashielded wizzy is god-mode now. My friend has around 40% mitigation on his warlock (dressed for miti - PVP server), well this is basically same as my ranger, but now they get 3 times more HP with manashield and other classes' DPS is nerfed along with it? This is insane!!!</p></blockquote>All in all your post was rather constructive, but sorry we just don't care to hear your pointless whines about how you can't 2 sec kill no more...Really though I think WoW is still accepting Rogues that can go to lvl 70 and gank lvl 1's if you want that thrill. </blockquote>

sprogn
06-15-2007, 09:59 AM
Yep, nothing like being potion immune to stun for 10 seconds out of every 15 minutes...

Elephanton
06-15-2007, 10:27 AM
<p>You can use status items - they last much longer. Potion is cheap but worse alternative.</p>

Legiax
06-15-2007, 10:42 AM
<p>Let sum this up.</p><p> Rangers now have to actually press more than 5-6 buttons, and realise they have a lot more, so are crying.</p><p> Sniper shot will still do huge damage, the root still roots... the snares still snare... [Removed for Content] moaning pls. You guys will still own.</p><p>I feel for wizzy's (being one), we're sooo fragile, and now we get our ability to nuke massively taken away, when we're meant to be the biggest single mob hitter in the game? good stuff.</p>

Amphibia
06-15-2007, 11:01 AM
<cite>shagr1414 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>CresentBlade wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Leave the DPS to the wizards it what they are made to do.</p></blockquote>Hehehe, dude..... you're so way off I don't even know where to start. So an Assassin is not supposed to do DPS then? I know, I know! Let's remove all classes except Guardian, Templar, Wizard and ....eh Dirge perhaps. Yes, that sounds good. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote><p> Amazing though as in lore and as its intended to be, wizards seem to be able to solo ^^^70+ mobs yet a ranger get's its lunch eaten....ooops nm didn't wanna spoil your BS about lore and all bud.....Wizzies are dps rangers are utility by lore, hence lets go a bit overboard here.  </p><p>Legolas vs The witch king = Crispy elf plain and simple......oh well must be the DREAM lore of the eq rangers we see....</p></blockquote> Hehehe Well, if all the wizards were to be like the Witch King, then everyone else would roll female characters. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Hmm, I don't think we are getting somewhere with this discussion anytime soon, but thanks for the entertainment! <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Microbolt
06-15-2007, 11:41 AM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>Let sum this up.</p><p> Rangers now have to actually press more than 5-6 buttons, and realise they have a lot more, so are crying.</p><p> Sniper shot will still do huge damage, the root still roots... the snares still snare... [I cannot control my vocabulary] moaning pls. You guys will still own.</p></blockquote><p>Unbelievable how ignorant most people are.  These nerfs (except for Sniper Shot, which I never use in pvp anyway so I dont care about it) did not lower our damage at all.  They only thing that was changed is rangers ability to keep the enemy away.  The only thing that SoE gained is now rangers will have to, even if they dont want to, fight from places inaccessable to melee.</p><p>I don't understand why these changes were made.  If SoE wanted to nerf rangers, lower our damage.  All that was accomplished here was a change to encourage practices that most people dislike.  IMO this will create more problems than it solves.</p>

MaCloud1032
06-15-2007, 01:40 PM
<p>To all of the posters out there that say nothing more than L2P. I play a SK on venekor.  Iam sorry but i fnd hard when you bad mouth some one cuz they dont run with see steal up.  Unless your a scout with track or have eyes in the back of your head what good is see stealth.  Only dumb scouts will come at me from the front the ones who do normaly die(natural selection).  This update is made to stop one thing!  The ranger who sits on the temple in TT the ranger who sat on top of the cliff of WW the ranger who saw that he was about to loose and scooted his butt out of range.  You all clame that you never do this or dont see it, but apparently there are enought of you that do it to warrent this nerf(much lke the HT and log).  For the rangers who truly played there class i feel bad this nerf has to hit you <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</p><p>sorry for all miss spellings  rant done</p>

Magius789
06-15-2007, 02:11 PM
I think all the rangers around here need to give Shagr1414 a HUGE HUG!  His five consecutive posts on the previous page shows real dedication to hating the ranger class and I think he might be a caster that has gotten killed a few to many times.  Shag, nothing but love for ya bud but face it some classess are meant to beat others.  Rangers happen to beat mages, however you post that we are the kings of T7 pvp which is blatantly wrong.  Any healer worth his/her weight will have no problem with a ranger, a good SK will still own a ranger, hell even a mage with manashield if played well will own a ranger.  Instead of posting hate threads maybe you should read up on some strategy on how to play your class.

shagr1414
06-15-2007, 02:35 PM
<cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>shagr1414 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>1. No in-combat speed increase + nerfed Leg Shot + 2 sec (haha!) root = dead ranger. How in the world we can make a distance with opponent now? We can't shoot in melee range! We can't shoot on the run!!</p><p><span style="color: #cc3366">How you expect casters to cast, same idea now its your turn.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00">LOL are you really so stupid or you just act as one? Casters can still cast all of their spells in melee range. Rangers cannot.</span></p><p><span style="color: #cc3366">You sir are the stupid one since you think we can actually cast anything vs the dps and stuns and stifles put out in pvp.  Try having EVERY ca you try to use interupted, canceled non stop during 99.8% of any pvp encouter.  Educate yourself before posting, your'e obviously one of the folks who play a ranger, and I'd assume also someone who in a FPs would use an aimbot as a sniper. you need zero skill as a ranger to take down a plate class in a short few seconds, your'e being nerfed, accept it or go play Wow since all your capable of doing is using the unbalanced version of the game to think your'e somewhat educated or skilled.</span></p><p>2. No sustained DPS (rangers never had) + nerfed burst DPS = can't kill anyone. Coupled with (1), can't even kite now while all our hits are recharging. Overall, nerfed coupled with manashield changed to 2:1 ratio ([I cannot control my vocabulary]?) = no chance against wizzies/warlocks any longer. [I cannot control my vocabulary], most of the times if a well geared (for mitigation) wizzy would pop his manashield at the right time (when he is in orange), I can't kill him NOW, without that DPS nerf.</p><p><span style="color: #cc3399">Still yet to understand why you should be any different than any other class.  Sustained dps would require actually GETTING A CAST OFF.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00">So what is your problem? Root and nuke non-stop! I have 3 mages from my 7 chars so believe me I know what is it to play a mage.</span></p><p><span style="color: #cc3366">Once again uneducated...root = resist resist resist, snare = resist resist resist, nukes?? you think everyone plays a wizard, try being a class that depends on dot's and needs TIME to be productive.</span></p><p>Overall, you taking away what most people hav chosen the class for: burst DPS, and don't give anything in return. This WILL result in cancellations. </p><p>3. Hook Arrow : according to update notes, it does not work in PVP at all any longer. And it was never used in PVE. Useless skill now?</p><p>4. Sniper shot : useless now. It was very situational before, it is useless now. It has 5 sec cast time! Come on, I can fire about 3-4 other skills for the 5 sec + autoattack + offensive stance procs + poisons + other procs. That's twice as much damage!</p><p><span style="color: #cc33cc">Lifeburn 10 seconds casts needs 30 seconds to cycle Ooooooohhhh i sooooo feeeeeel your pain now!!!</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00">Actually lifeburn is 5 sec cast and it is easy to do while your opponent is running in fear... did you even play a necro? Cause you say stupid things...</span></p><p><span style="color: #cc3366">10seconds on the spell description fool. 30 seconds duration to fully function and we are supposed to be 100% immune during the time its on which we are not. Your'e again implying that fear lands.....go play your locked mages that probably range from lvl 20-40 cause you obviously do not ahve a 70 mage.</span></p><p>Looks like list of useless ranger skills that I don't even have on my hotbar was just doubled: hawk dive, stream of arrows, and now welcome our root and sniper shot here... isn't that way too many for 1 class???</p><p>5. This is just ridiculous, half year whine on Sks, druids, swashies - and who gets nerfed hardest? Rangers, who had least complaints of all! Just clueless...</p><p>3 sickest changes in this update:</p><p>1. <b>Changing ranger root to 2 sec</b>. This is just plain stupid. This is same duration as our stun. Assuming that all people will upgrade it to 4 sec is just plain wrong. It costs 5 points and I would never want to go that route AA route with the Hook Arrow changes anyway.</p><p><span style="color: #cc3333">Rofl at least you get to cast it, mages usually stunned and if it actually does get casted its resisted, again though we mages feel your agony.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00">Dude let me open your eyes here: you can use potions or very cheap status items that give you immunity from stuns for a whole fight. If you don't even know/use these things while playing a mage than don't bother posting your opinions here. Opinions from noobs are not needed or welcome.</span></p><p><span style="color: #cc3366">Again spouting off uneducated responses.  This does absolutley NOTHING when you take 9k dmg in 2 seconds. [I cannot control my vocabulary] go play WoW thats where you belong. Ranger are OP bootomline. You can [I cannot control my vocabulary] and moan all you want about the changes but you require no skill (which imo fits you perfectly) to macro a few attacks into a button and run off braggin.  Nice try to re-route a post that you obviously no absolutely nothign about.  Gain a few lvl's on your amges then come and BS the forums cause all t7 mages understand the pain here...you do not.</span></p><p>2. <b>Removing ranger's ability to kite</b>, which is essential for ranger because most of our skills do not work in melee combat.</p><p>3. Increasing <b>manashield ratio to 2:1</b> along with <b>nerfing DPS</b> at the same time and fixing resists at T7 (this was needed). Result? Wizzies = new god mode. For god's sake, smart manashielded wizzy is god-mode now. My friend has around 40% mitigation on his warlock (dressed for miti - PVP server), well this is basically same as my ranger, but now they get 3 times more HP with manashield and other classes' DPS is nerfed along with it? This is insane!!!</p></blockquote>All in all your post was rather constructive, but sorry we just don't care to hear your pointless whines about how you can't 2 sec kill no more...Really though I think WoW is still accepting Rogues that can go to lvl 70 and gank lvl 1's if you want that thrill. </blockquote> </blockquote>

tass
06-15-2007, 02:43 PM
I had a chance to see some rangers in test tested out combat. God its gonna be so much fun snaring those bastages when they cant zip away.  The dmg was still pretty good when 1 or 2 would try to gank a person without them dueling. Then the person would look around find the ranger and beat the daylights out of him. Oh ya 5 second cast time? Welcome to the world of the magi. Of course now I suspect theres gonna be more pain involved.

shagr1414
06-15-2007, 02:47 PM
<cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think all the rangers around here need to give Shagr1414 a HUGE HUG!  His five consecutive posts on the previous page shows real dedication to hating the ranger class and I think he might be a caster that has gotten killed a few to many times.  Shag, nothing but love for ya bud but face it some classess are meant to beat others.  Rangers happen to beat mages, however you post that we are the kings of T7 pvp which is blatantly wrong.  Any healer worth his/her weight will have no problem with a ranger, a good SK will still own a ranger, hell even a mage with manashield if played well will own a ranger.  Instead of posting hate threads maybe you should read up on some strategy on how to play your class.</blockquote><p>weird the 9k+ hp tank in my group the other night went down in 2 seconds flat b4 we knew [I cannot control my vocabulary] was goin on. Care to explain or is this a freak event? Happens alot  as far as we can see. I'll post all the hate threads about ranger I want, its a known fact you all are overpowered and it about [I cannot control my vocabulary] time Sony did somthing about it. No 1 clas should be able to take ANY class down in anything less than 10 seconds. Yet we see parse after parse of logs that show 2-3 seconds. I'll post anything I want within the guildelines of the forums rules. Whether youa gree or not is not my problem, fact remains, ranger = OP, always have been, time for nerf was long due.  And imo it's still not enough. Rangers cannot even solo a ^^^ heroic mob in pve yet they can dish out enough dps in 2 seconds to take down any pvp player if need be. Wizard can actually take down heroics with ease, yet a ranger might last a good 10 seconds until roots/snares are gone then its over.   </p><p>As for strategy, what does a necro get? Fear = resist, stuns resist, snare resist, root resist.  Then on top of all that our dots might do 10% dmg b4 a real pvp enounter is over.  Hell even our debuffs are resists.  The wizard and warlock get manashields yet chanters, conj and necros do not.  Next you'll say lifetap brings our health back.  Ont he current resist tables, we might do 150 pts dmg bring us back maybe 60pts health....thats one auto attack for a ranger basically.  So since everyone who plays a mage is classified with manashiled and burst dps in your head....we will continue to see ranger hate posts like these until the situation is fixed.  </p>

Cyst
06-15-2007, 03:37 PM
<cite>tass wrote:</cite><blockquote>I had a chance to see some rangers in test tested out combat. God its gonna be so much fun snaring those bastages when they cant zip away.  The dmg was still pretty good when 1 or 2 would try to gank a person without them dueling. Then the person would look around find the ranger and beat the daylights out of him. Oh ya 5 second cast time? Welcome to the world of the magi. Of course now I suspect theres gonna be more pain involved. </blockquote><p> Dude, I'm going to cure your snare with a potion and use a combination of Snares and Stuns to kill you even after the patch. And you'll be whining still because you're still dying to a Ranger.</p><p>I've said since I've got it, Rangers don't need Sniper Shot, and our from Stealth shot doesn't have to be our main up front attack. For two months now I've spec'd out of in-combat run speed only having 11% I couldn't get rid of and still I'm easily killing my opponents and in the right situation (in the water where idiots won't work their swimming) I'm still taking out full groups.</p><p>The problem with whiners is they dont learn the game. Many of them will not do things like carry potions (cure ailments, cure snare/root, heal potions, et cetera), work swimming as I mentioned above, carry totems, use various status clickies, or other clickies available to them in the game. When you don't do a lot of various things in the game like this you're going to be a weak character to anyone who does. AND IRONICALLY MOST SCOUTS WILL USE ALL OF THE ABOVE WHILE NON SCOUTS WILL NOT!</p><p>This will not hurt most Rangers against anyone but other scouts. You'll still be whining becuase you're dying to Rangers.</p>

Rob626
06-15-2007, 04:48 PM
The reason I never carried cure potions was simply that by the time my cure potion was used I was already in the red. Why waste the gold or -worse- have it drop for the dink that just killed me? It really didn't matter if I was no longer rooted; I could still not close the distance and bring down the Ranger before in the next two seconds. My total life expectancy was around 4-8 seconds. Broken down, it looked like this: 1: find out I'm being attacked (yellow health) 2: potion 3: search for Scout (red health) 4-5: sprint to Scout (dead more often than not) 6-8: begin doing damage, maybe. At what point in that 8 seconds does it look like I have even the remotest chance of winning? Potion or not, there is no real chance to close the distance. Don't tell me "of course: the Scout got the drop on you!" Tell me one circumstance where a Scout won't get the drop on a Guard. Now that in combat run speeds and total dps is nerfed maybe those potions will actually do some good. I am looking forward to trying!

Elephanton
06-15-2007, 05:32 PM
<cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think all the rangers around here need to give Shagr1414 a HUGE HUG!  His five consecutive posts on the previous page shows real dedication to hating the ranger class and I think he might be a caster that has gotten killed a few to many times.</blockquote>Clearly so, he is a wtfpwnd caster and besides he is total newb because he does not know pretty much anything about this game according to his posts... I stopped reading his posts after he said that Lifeburn has 10 sec cast time. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> 

Killque
06-15-2007, 05:34 PM
<cite>Demron wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Killque wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Killque wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Just an fyi.. Level 38 ranger....</p><p>(1181789754)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:54 2007] YOU are critically hit by Hidden Fire for 648 piercing damage. (1181789754)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:54 2007] YOU are hit by Quick Shot for 92 piercing damage. (1181789755)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:55 2007] Jeagon hits YOU for 229 piercing damage. (1181789756)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:56 2007] Jeagon's Triple Fire hits YOU for 79 piercing damage. (1181789756)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:56 2007] You get better at Defense (210/215). (1181789756)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:56 2007] Jeagon's Triple Fire hits YOU for 124 piercing damage. (1181789756)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:56 2007] Jeagon's Triple Fire hits YOU for 218 piercing damage. (1181789757)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:57 2007] Jeagon's Crippling Arrow critically hits YOU for 416 piercing damage. (118178975<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />[Wed Jun 13 21:55:58 2007] You say to the guild,"but hes 44" (1181789759)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:59 2007] Jeagon's Miracle Shot critically hits YOU for 363 piercing damage. (1181789759)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:59 2007] YOUR Dire Shroud absorbs 111 points of damage from being done to YOURSELF (1181789759)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:59 2007] Jeagon's caustic poison hits YOU but fails to inflict any damage. (1181789759)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:59 2007] Jeagon's Quick Shot hits YOU for 92 piercing damage. (1181789760)[Wed Jun 13 21:56:00 2007] Jeagon critically hits YOU for 250 piercing damage. (1181789760)[Wed Jun 13 21:56:00 2007] Jeagon's Quick Shot critically hits YOU for 119 piercing damage. (1181789761)[Wed Jun 13 21:56:01 2007] Jeagon's Trick Arrow hits YOU for 178 piercing damage. (1181789762)[Wed Jun 13 21:56:02 2007] YOUR Dire Shroud absorbs 34 points of damage from being done to YOURSELF (1181789762)[Wed Jun 13 21:56:02 2007] Jeagon's Flaming Shot hits YOU for 45 heat and 1 piercing damage. (1181789762)[Wed Jun 13 21:56:02 2007] Jeagon's Flaming Shot hits YOU for 69 heat and 1 piercing damage. 3067 dmg in 8 seconds</p><p> Are you all reeeally complaining??</p></blockquote> So in eight seconds you weren't able to select the ranger and hit him once but you were able to talk to your guild mates?  I smell something fishy!  <img src="/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote><p> I was standing right next to the catapult in zek. </p><p>I had already typed the message, it took me a second to hit enter to send it..</p><p>I clicked on the catapult once I realized I wasnt going to be doing anything ..</p></blockquote>Wow Kill your defense was NINE POINTS below maximum meaning you were missing close to 10% avoidance for someone of equal level to you. It's no wonder people whine about dying. </blockquote><p>Gladiate's defence may be, sure... but he didnt die. I escaped... I my thread was not a whine thread.. I was just posting that dmg log as an informitive point of reference for others.</p><p>Gladiate = lvl 42 Ranger = lvl 38</p><p>FYI</p><p>Edit: I had just dinged 42... My defence was 6 points lower, not 9 and less than halfway through the fight it was only 5 points lower than max. </p>

Microbolt
06-15-2007, 05:51 PM
<cite>Killque wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Demron wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Killque wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Killque wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Just an fyi.. Level 38 ranger....</p><p>(1181789754)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:54 2007] YOU are critically hit by Hidden Fire for 648 piercing damage. (1181789754)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:54 2007] YOU are hit by Quick Shot for 92 piercing damage. (1181789755)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:55 2007] Jeagon hits YOU for 229 piercing damage. (1181789756)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:56 2007] Jeagon's Triple Fire hits YOU for 79 piercing damage. (1181789756)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:56 2007] You get better at Defense (210/215). (1181789756)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:56 2007] Jeagon's Triple Fire hits YOU for 124 piercing damage. (1181789756)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:56 2007] Jeagon's Triple Fire hits YOU for 218 piercing damage. (1181789757)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:57 2007] Jeagon's Crippling Arrow critically hits YOU for 416 piercing damage. (118178975<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />[Wed Jun 13 21:55:58 2007] You say to the guild,"but hes 44" (1181789759)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:59 2007] Jeagon's Miracle Shot critically hits YOU for 363 piercing damage. (1181789759)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:59 2007] YOUR Dire Shroud absorbs 111 points of damage from being done to YOURSELF (1181789759)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:59 2007] Jeagon's caustic poison hits YOU but fails to inflict any damage. (1181789759)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:59 2007] Jeagon's Quick Shot hits YOU for 92 piercing damage. (1181789760)[Wed Jun 13 21:56:00 2007] Jeagon critically hits YOU for 250 piercing damage. (1181789760)[Wed Jun 13 21:56:00 2007] Jeagon's Quick Shot critically hits YOU for 119 piercing damage. (1181789761)[Wed Jun 13 21:56:01 2007] Jeagon's Trick Arrow hits YOU for 178 piercing damage. (1181789762)[Wed Jun 13 21:56:02 2007] YOUR Dire Shroud absorbs 34 points of damage from being done to YOURSELF (1181789762)[Wed Jun 13 21:56:02 2007] Jeagon's Flaming Shot hits YOU for 45 heat and 1 piercing damage. (1181789762)[Wed Jun 13 21:56:02 2007] Jeagon's Flaming Shot hits YOU for 69 heat and 1 piercing damage. 3067 dmg in 8 seconds</p><p> Are you all reeeally complaining??</p></blockquote> So in eight seconds you weren't able to select the ranger and hit him once but you were able to talk to your guild mates?  I smell something fishy!  <img src="/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote><p> I was standing right next to the catapult in zek. </p><p>I had already typed the message, it took me a second to hit enter to send it..</p><p>I clicked on the catapult once I realized I wasnt going to be doing anything ..</p></blockquote>Wow Kill your defense was NINE POINTS below maximum meaning you were missing close to 10% avoidance for someone of equal level to you. It's no wonder people whine about dying. </blockquote><p>Gladiate's defence may be, sure... but he didnt die. I escaped... I my thread was not a whine thread.. I was just posting that dmg log as an informitive point of reference for others.</p><p>Gladiate = lvl 42 Ranger = lvl 38</p><p>FYI</p><p>Edit: I had just dinged 42... My defence was 6 points lower, not 9 and less than halfway through the fight it was only 5 points lower than max. </p></blockquote><p> 8 Seconds and you didn't get a single point of damage in there.  Not a single stun/stifle in there either.  IMO you deserve to die, be a little more alert <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  </p><p>Defilers are a tough fight for any ranger if you just tried...  IMO you have no right to be complaining here.</p>

Cyst
06-15-2007, 05:51 PM
<p>Killque</p><p>My fault, my math skills were down.. I blame it on not having my coffee.</p><p>Still that's a 2%-5% decrease in avoidance. May not seem like much, but I've tested it and it can decide a fight among scouts.</p>

The_Real_Ohno
06-15-2007, 05:52 PM
<cite>shagr1414 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think all the rangers around here need to give Shagr1414 a HUGE HUG!  His five consecutive posts on the previous page shows real dedication to hating the ranger class and I think he might be a caster that has gotten killed a few to many times.  Shag, nothing but love for ya bud but face it some classess are meant to beat others.  Rangers happen to beat mages, however you post that we are the kings of T7 pvp which is blatantly wrong.  Any healer worth his/her weight will have no problem with a ranger, a good SK will still own a ranger, hell even a mage with manashield if played well will own a ranger.  Instead of posting hate threads maybe you should read up on some strategy on how to play your class.</blockquote><p>weird the 9k+ hp tank in my group the other night went down in 2 seconds flat b4 we knew [I cannot control my vocabulary] was goin on. Care to explain or is this a freak event? </p></blockquote><p>Post the logs or it didnt happen.  No Ranger in there right mind would target a Tank first and kill in 2 secs when theres prob a healer or 2 in that same grp.  Even if there wasent a Healer, the DPS would be targeted first, not the tank.  Stop talkin BS and post logs, because everyone here can see all u have is hate towards Rangers and clearly are just makin stuff up.</p><p><3 Shagr </p>

Cyst
06-15-2007, 05:57 PM
<cite>Rob626 wrote:</cite><blockquote>The reason I never carried cure potions was simply that by the time my cure potion was used I was already in the red. Why waste the gold or -worse- have it drop for the dink that just killed me? It really didn't matter if I was no longer rooted; I could still not close the distance and bring down the Ranger before in the next two seconds. My total life expectancy was around 4-8 seconds. Broken down, it looked like this: 1: find out I'm being attacked (yellow health) 2: potion 3: search for Scout (red health) 4-5: sprint to Scout (dead more often than not) 6-8: begin doing damage, maybe. At what point in that 8 seconds does it look like I have even the remotest chance of winning? Potion or not, there is no real chance to close the distance. Don't tell me "of course: the Scout got the drop on you!" Tell me one circumstance where a Scout won't get the drop on a Guard. Now that in combat run speeds and total dps is nerfed maybe those potions will actually do some good. I am looking forward to trying </blockquote><p>I don't know your max health so I'm going to assume at least 3500 here if you will.</p><p>1: find out I'm being attacked (yellow health) 2: Arcane Remedy Potion (Cure Snares/Roots) 3: search for Scout (red health) while clicking over to Overclocked Crosstrainer boots clicking them. +350 Health (10% of max Health), +50% run speed (will not lock you into combat unless you've already engaged, for which the heal still works but the run speed doesn't.)</p><p>3.5: Manaburn - For Wizards and Warlocks 4-5: sprint to Scout (Still Alive) and ROOT/SNARE scout. Apply "NOXIOUS REPRIEVE" potion. 600-700 point poison/disease ward. 6-8: begin doing damage, definately. </p>

Kradun
06-15-2007, 06:14 PM
I like the changes, they make for a new and interesting play style that I have adapted. I still think auto attack damage should be upped a little bit from its current state on test.  MY auto attacks with a bazkul are ranging from some 300-500, on a 4 secondish delay self buffed.  Crit up to 800 though on chain.  CA damage needs a bit more of a nerf though.  Rain of Arrows is still hitting too hard, but in retrospec triple volley seems to be very futile to use.  Also from what I have seen on test... Plate warriors rock face.  A smart warlock destroys too!  Swashies still do incredible amounts of damage.  Now you get +3/4 time to react to your death.  Brigands got hit hard.  I feel bad for them.  Their stun ends so early that you dont even need to use a potion anymore.  kinda jsut wait stun evade knockback evade root and your free.  freedom of action may be the potion to use against brigands now.  Furies were hit hard with their lack of run speed.  Wardens are broken as hell on test, their heals are not scaling.  You cannot out dps a 900 crit heal that ticks every 1.5 seconds.  and they can stack 3 of these  : P. Healers still dont give me problems.  Monks are still not too bad to fight and bruiser drag nerf has hurt their ability to kill me also.  Dunno though, more testing when I return to my desktop pc on sunday.  :  )

Rob626
06-15-2007, 08:29 PM
Demron, thank you for the response. The 8 second approximation was given from the standpoint of a 49 Guard. About right for the self-buffed health. I'll have to find those boots. They sound as if they can make a large difference. My point was more along the lines of I am glad for the combination nerf of incombat run speed and overall arrow dps. With LU 36 I think my responses will mean more now where before they simply did not matter. Guards have an AA that heals for a % of total health, but often it simple didn't matter...even after popping it I would still be in red health and Guards simply do not take -anyone- from Green to Dead in the time it takes for me to go from Red to Dead. I won't say it doesn't happen, but it has never happened in my limited experience.

Magius789
06-15-2007, 09:01 PM
<cite>shagr1414 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think all the rangers around here need to give Shagr1414 a HUGE HUG!  His five consecutive posts on the previous page shows real dedication to hating the ranger class and I think he might be a caster that has gotten killed a few to many times.  Shag, nothing but love for ya bud but face it some classess are meant to beat others.  Rangers happen to beat mages, however you post that we are the kings of T7 pvp which is blatantly wrong.  Any healer worth his/her weight will have no problem with a ranger, a good SK will still own a ranger, hell even a mage with manashield if played well will own a ranger.  Instead of posting hate threads maybe you should read up on some strategy on how to play your class.</blockquote><p>weird the 9k+ hp tank in my group the other night went down in 2 seconds flat b4 we knew [I cannot control my vocabulary] was goin on. Care to explain or is this a freak event? Happens alot  as far as we can see. I'll post all the hate threads about ranger I want, its a known fact you all are overpowered and it about [I cannot control my vocabulary] time Sony did somthing about it. No 1 clas should be able to take ANY class down in anything less than 10 seconds. Yet we see parse after parse of logs that show 2-3 seconds. I'll post anything I want within the guildelines of the forums rules. Whether youa gree or not is not my problem, fact remains, ranger = OP, always have been, time for nerf was long due.  And imo it's still not enough. Rangers cannot even solo a ^^^ heroic mob in pve yet they can dish out enough dps in 2 seconds to take down any pvp player if need be. Wizard can actually take down heroics with ease, yet a ranger might last a good 10 seconds until roots/snares are gone then its over.   </p><p>As for strategy, what does a necro get? Fear = resist, stuns resist, snare resist, root resist.  Then on top of all that our dots might do 10% dmg b4 a real pvp enounter is over.  Hell even our debuffs are resists.  The wizard and warlock get manashields yet chanters, conj and necros do not.  Next you'll say lifetap brings our health back.  Ont he current resist tables, we might do 150 pts dmg bring us back maybe 60pts health....thats one auto attack for a ranger basically.  So since everyone who plays a mage is classified with manashiled and burst dps in your head....we will continue to see ranger hate posts like these until the situation is fixed.  </p></blockquote><p>Shag there are so many things wrong with your posts I don't know where to start.  First off as Ohnoes said no ranger would target the tank first.  Tanks aren't a high priority threat because any ranger who can kite can deal with them.  The healers or the mages would be the first to die not the tank.  The only other thing wrong with your post I'm going to point out, because I don't have all day, is your rangers can kill something fast statement.  You accused me of grouping summoners in with mages, but you keep singling out rangers, acting as if a swashy, assassin, or brigand can't do the same thing we can.  They do what we do, they just do it in melee and we do it at RANGE (hence the name: RANGER)  Now I'm going to stop responding to you and hope this thread gets back to what the OP had intended.  A GOOD WAY FOR THE DEV'S TO SEE RANGERS RESPONSES TO THE CHANGES WITHOUT A BUNCH OF FLAMING. </p><p><3 Shag <3  /hug</p><p>Edit: If I see on more post in this thread from a nonranger accusing rangers of "whinning" because of our DPS change I'm gonna loose it.  We have been discussing the changes to our root/snare duration and in combat speed because, and I know this might seem complicated but read it a few times if you have to, if a ranger can't get range on his target 90% of our ca's DON'T WORK.  Let me state it a little differently for the slow ones, THAT MEANS WE CAN'T ATTACK (except our melee which is jack and crap)  We don't care about the dmg nerf is the others that screw us! </p>

Cyst
06-16-2007, 03:45 AM
<cite>Rob626 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Demron, thank you for the response. The 8 second approximation was given from the standpoint of a 49 Guard. About right for the self-buffed health. I'll have to find those boots. They sound as if they can make a large difference. My point was more along the lines of I am glad for the combination nerf of incombat run speed and overall arrow dps. With LU 36 I think my responses will mean more now where before they simply did not matter. Guards have an AA that heals for a % of total health, but often it simple didn't matter...even after popping it I would still be in red health and Guards simply do not take -anyone- from Green to Dead in the time it takes for me to go from Red to Dead. I won't say it doesn't happen, but it has never happened in my limited experience.</blockquote> There is just so much stuff you can use out there Rob even as a Guardian. You'd be stun'd at the two bags of poisons, potions, totems, clickies, et cetera I use not to mention Miracles.

yohann koldheart
06-16-2007, 10:45 AM
with these changes, you will see more rangers with glide boots jumping in to trees, or the side of clifts whare melee cant get to them,and by the time casters find them it will be too late. we'll still be able to drop cloth casters in 3 or 4 ca's. the biggest gripe i have with the changes is hook arrow's not working in pvp. that ruins a entire line of our eof aa tree.

Elephanton
06-16-2007, 11:47 AM
<p>True, Hook Arrow was the PVP-only tool (obviously it is absolutely useless in PVE). I hope they substitute this skill with something else if this goes live.</p>

Microbolt
06-16-2007, 12:32 PM
<p>Just an update, was playing around on test and didn't find it too much harder to solo in PvP.  Like it is now, we only have the advantage if we "get the jump" on someone.  Any duel I did I normally died on Test; however, when we was doing FFA I was able to kill fairly nice by starting at 35 meters and just hoping they died by the time they got the melee <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>It's still impossible to kill healer classes, well close to impossible, if the healer knows thier class.  I won a few against some healers but I'm guessing they was just beta buffed and didn't play one all the time.  One class we will be adding to the close to impossible to kill list is wizards/warlocks.  The manasheild is godlike in PvP.  Thats like the PvP belt except you can recast much quicker and lasts 30 seconds.  It essentially gives them 30,000 HP.  Plus, not sure why most wizards think they are squishy.  I beta buffed one and had 40% mitigation and 36% avoid.  Must just be the good fabeled gear.  Wizzy's are nice enough that I'm thinking of lvling my lowbie wizzy up.</p>

Cyst
06-16-2007, 02:48 PM
<p>If you notice manashield go up hit them with your melee snare since it is now better than our leg shot snare and run off till the 30 seconds goes away.. Come back and kill the Wizard/Warlock.</p><p>As for healers I'm going to carry around a set of weapons with power drain proc's on them and the power drain poison just for them.</p>

EQGu
06-16-2007, 03:39 PM
<p>well for the most part i like the changes a few things need to be fixed. wardens own so much on test. and plate tanks. I was fighting with a beta buff character so i was missing lots of stats and i was fighting some people in avatar and eof set loot so there was a pretty big difference with my ranger and that gear. Monks are easy for a ranger, bruisers can be hard if played properly, zerkers are insane, same with sks, and paladins. havent fought a guardian yet. furies got hit hard with the nerf i guess a well played fury will still do fine but i havent lost to one on test. swashes are still amazing. without run speed for rangers you cant get out of their reach in time.</p><p>our leg shot got hit hard its now 6 seconds with 10% chance to break. so it breaks quite often. I wish they would put it at 5% chance to break along with every other snare and root around. my master 1 vines seems to be resisted 65% of the time. i havent resisted the swash snare once.</p><p> I havent fought a brig with my ranger but i beta buffed a brig and i still think they are good. i wouldnt mind lvling one up because they are fun to play. I beat monk a couple times, i beat a templar like 6 times. a fury like 6 times. a ranger a bunch of times, cant beat a plate tank or warden. I dont think ill be able to touch a mystic/shammy when their wards get fixed. Coercers/Illusionists are rough if i can get them down a lot before the mez then im ok if not i die.</p><p>Overall i think they are good changes BUT there are still some tweaks that need to be put in. Plate tanks need toned down, wardens need fixed. Wizards and Warlocks manashield might need toned down some with the new dps changes.</p><p>brigand vs swash fights are fun. for the most part i could beat swashes, good swashes were tough for me but i could atleast get them low hps. and im like the newbest brig ever.</p>

Microbolt
06-16-2007, 04:50 PM
<cite>Demron wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>If you notice manashield go up hit them with your melee snare since it is now better than our leg shot snare and run off till the 30 seconds goes away.. Come back and kill the Wizard/Warlock.</p><p>As for healers I'm going to carry around a set of weapons with power drain proc's on them and the power drain poison just for them.</p></blockquote><p>Snare lasts for 6 seconds in PvP then you get 12 seconds of immunity (or 18, can't remember)  Would be hard to keep you snared away for so long.  Plus no class should be essentially invulnerable for 30 seconds.  Seems a little out of balance.</p><p>For all the other classes I fought on test, none of the others really seemed overpowered.  Some were harder to beat than others and some I couldn't beat, but that doensn't mean they are OP.</p>

Microbolt
06-16-2007, 04:52 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p> Wizards and Warlocks manashield might need toned down some</p></blockquote> Yep, I played a beta buffed wizzy.  For pvp might be ok if they reverted to the 1:1 ratio again and leave 2:1 for PvE.

theodat
06-16-2007, 07:10 PM
I am glad Rangers are going to be nerfed...for too long they have had an unfair advantage.  I like the rangers that hide behind the guards with their hook arrow.  Sony has for too long given the advantage to Q's.  You are all just mad because it will be a fairer fight.

Rabbitoh
06-16-2007, 08:16 PM
<cite>theodat wrote:</cite><blockquote>I am glad Rangers are going to be nerfed...for too long they have had an unfair advantage.  I like the rangers that hide behind the guards with their hook arrow.  Sony has for too long given the advantage to Q's.  You are all just mad because it will be a fairer fight. </blockquote><p>Where do these idiots come from?</p><p>Molok. Ranger of Vigilante </p>

KniteShayd
06-16-2007, 09:04 PM
<cite>KannaWhoopass wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I know why several classes are upset. </p><p>the i win buttons just fell off the hotbar. </p><p>the brigs/rangers/swashies will be upset the most. </p><p>These are people who ran arround solo for the past year, killing people solo. </p><p>Now they will need to work to do it, no more 4 second i win. </p><p>One of the complaints i have read was from a swashie who had to fight another class for 30 seconds. </p><p>And he was shcoked , i think he said it was "20 seconds too long" which was funny. He actually had to FIGHT.</p><p>Several of the scout classes have had it so easy for so long that they have no real adea on how to play. </p><p>for the most part , their strat involved 3 or 4 buttons. </p><p>I see the new scouts </p><p>1) hunting in pairs or groups.. (Not Bad)</p><p>2) Learning to use stuns and interupts at crutial times in the fights. </p><p>3) Using other poisons than caustic.</p><p>4) dusting off the LFG button. </p><p>If a scout lost to a zerker .. good .. </p><p>if a scout lost to a wizard .. ok not surprising if he PvP spec'd but id assume at least a 70% win ratio</p><p>if a scout lost to a plate wrapped healer .. i see no surprise there. </p><p>The scout classes were so far out of whack in PvP that it has been seen as expected thatthey should kill an opponent in 5 seconds!. </p><p>It is possible that if you are a ranger in PvP you excell at being the GROUP tracker.. and being a fantastic main assist for the GROUP ..as you acn stand out of taunt range and do great DPS. </p><p>Assasins can be in the melee with the GROUP and sneak up behind opponents in stealth and whack them. </p><p>Swashies will be great in GROUP combat as they can jump in the middle of the frey and AOE DPS .. when timed with a rift or other AOE will be devastating. </p><p>If you are a scout and die in SOLO PvP now, ok whats the problem .. where was it written </p><p>scouts will kill all opponents solo ... </p><p>The scouts will still be a force to deal with 1 v 1 . </p><p>They will still be sought after in every group for the speed buffs and tracking and grp stealth and high DPS. </p><p>The big complaint veiled behind all of the numbers calculations and Im gimped posts will be.</p><p>"Im no longer a SOLO god , I dont want to group with people" .. </p><p>If the changes have a large effect in PvE play .. i can see valid arguments. </p><p>because in PvE the classes seem balanced in the group and raid aspect. .. but PvP has always been off. </p><p>Look at the ratio of scout classes to others on PvP servers .. it easy to find the .. I win Button classes ..  </p><p>Look at the stats .. look at who is posting now.   </p><p>I dont mean this post to be as inflamitory as it sounds.. Scouts are still a powerfull and essential class.</p><p>the sky is not falling</p></blockquote> Yeah, so says the WARDEN.  Who will now be able to run unchecked and never below 50%HP in a solo fight... Watch what you say, cuz heals are next...

KniteShayd
06-16-2007, 09:06 PM
<cite>theodat wrote:</cite><blockquote>  Sony has for too long given the advantage to Q's.  You are all just mad because it will be a fairer fight. </blockquote> ROFLMAO.  How long have YOU played on a PvP server?!  Wow, you need to research threads.  Especially on revive locations.

theodat
06-17-2007, 12:36 AM
See sour grapes from the Ranger..so much anger.. and name calling..And I don't need to research anything to watch you cry!

Rastaah
06-17-2007, 02:09 AM
<p>Who says heals are next or is that the famous grapevine?    But regardless, news for you guys, even if they were to nerf heals, you'd still [Removed for Content] about healers, trust me......in any pvp game , it never ends....the constant moaning/whining about any class that is good 1vs1 .  Its just par for the MMORPG course. </p><p>Wardens rock because they are tough little cookies. They have mitigation, they have medium damage output and combined with that they have nice heals .  But as a warden player, t hey could nerf my heals and unless they OVER do it, we should be just fine. Not to worried.  The class does not rely on heals alone, but a combo of heals, mitigation and other factors like aa choices, player skill and style and armor/gear/spell upgrades.</p><p>As to ranger nerfs, I dont know, I just know 'the lower level' rangers needed a nerf, I can not say higher levels did or didnt as my main experiences are with my alts and rangers who simply sit in Darklight all day pickng off newbs. Never actually fought a ranger 1vs1 on my higher character, they run.</p>

Vlahkmaak
06-17-2007, 06:18 AM
You should try playing another class and fight a ranger.  I have several pvp toons, a 51 ranger, was my first pvp toon, amongst them.  We need to be hit with a nerf bat bad.  We should not be able to take out people 10+ levles above us in 5-10 secnds.  We kill most classes, including red con casters, usually before they know what hits them.  It is not even a fair fight.  Lowering damage will not remove us from a main dps class.  What needs a serious nerfing is our up front burst damage.  I can top a raid parse on my necro and my ranger easy.  I can kill necros ten levels above me easy while grey con rangers have been known to kill my 70 necro (who is in t7 fabled/relic and better) very fast - something is quite wrong with that.

The_Real_Ohno
06-17-2007, 10:18 AM
All Rangers have is burst dmg... U want our Ranged dmg the same as our Melee or somethin?  If u actualy play your Ranger, u would know we be nothin if we didnt have any burst dmg... <img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Broccoliswo
06-17-2007, 12:44 PM
<cite>Plaguemeister wrote:</cite><blockquote>You should try playing another class and fight a ranger.  I have several pvp toons, a 51 ranger, was my first pvp toon, amongst them.  We need to be hit with a nerf bat bad.  We should not be able to take out people 10+ levles above us in 5-10 secnds.  We kill most classes, including red con casters, usually before they know what hits them.  It is not even a fair fight.  Lowering damage will not remove us from a main dps class.  What needs a serious nerfing is our up front burst damage.  I can top a raid parse on my necro and my ranger easy.  I can kill necros ten levels above me easy while <b>grey con rangers have been known to kill my 70 necro (who is in t7 fabled/relic and better) very fast - something is quite wrong with that.</b></blockquote>Looks more like something is quite wrong with how you fight rangers. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Greeen-_-Ranger
06-17-2007, 12:45 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><cite>Plaguemeister wrote:</cite><blockquote>You should try playing another class and fight a ranger.  I have several pvp toons, a 51 ranger, was my first pvp toon, amongst them.  We need to be hit with a nerf bat bad.  We should not be able to take out people 10+ levles above us in 5-10 secnds.  We kill most classes, including red con casters, usually before they know what hits them.  It is not even a fair fight.  Lowering damage will not remove us from a main dps class.  What needs a serious nerfing is our up front burst damage.  I can top a raid parse on my necro and my ranger easy.  I can kill necros ten levels above me easy while <b>grey con rangers have been known to kill my 70 necro (who is in t7 fabled/relic and better) very fast - something is quite wrong with that.</b></blockquote>Looks more like something is quite wrong with how you fight rangers. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote> I bet he's dieing to snipershot.  Which is being nerfed, problem solved <img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Broccoliswo
06-17-2007, 12:47 PM
Snipershot is weak lol, and tbh if a 70 lets a grey sniper shot him that means he is not using totems, etc, and other precautions that would allow him to see the ranger during the 5 sec cast time, which would give him time to break stealth and interrupt sniper shot. However, it must be a giant class disparity because some guy is too cheap to spend 70 silver on a totem!

Greeen-_-Ranger
06-17-2007, 01:12 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>Snipershot is weak lol, and tbh if a 70 lets a grey sniper shot him that means he is not using totems, etc, and other precautions that would allow him to see the ranger during the 5 sec cast time, which would give him time to break stealth and interrupt sniper shot. However, it must be a giant class disparity because some guy is too cheap to spend 70 silver on a totem! </blockquote> I'll give free totems to this necro!

Vlahkmaak
06-17-2007, 01:45 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>Snipershot is weak lol, and tbh if a 70 lets a grey sniper shot him that means he is not using totems, etc, and other precautions that would allow him to see the ranger during the 5 sec cast time, which would give him time to break stealth and interrupt sniper shot. However, it must be a giant class disparity because some guy is too cheap to spend 70 silver on a totem! </blockquote> You obviously did not pay attention or read carefully.  I have a 51 ranger. I play him very well. I know to never leave home without totems.  I am constantly spamming next pvp target when out and about solo.  I am constantly circling my vision 360 to check check everywhere.  I am trying to figure out where I might hide were I on my ranger.  The fact is that if a ranger catches me at range I am dead before my pet can close the distance.  the fact is rangers will catch clothies at range.  If you let a clothie get a jump on oyu at range you must really suck.  The fact is that at range a ranger can drop3-5k hit on me while my best range shot is  mini nuke which does 150-200 over time before disease based mitigation.  Fear will not reach out and when it does it is invariabley resisted even with extra aa's in the resist line for fear.  further more I ahve to turn my back and run which opens up a soft spot or I have to try to close the distance and hope I can get a stun or life tap off, all the while being hit by massivve damage.   My relic, fabled, and set gear does not give me the avoidance, mitigation, nor disruption to be able to survive an opening salvo.  I have no evac.  I have to stand and fight.  I have to stand to cast, not run and shoot like I can on my ranger.  Even my auto attk bow shots hit harder than a necro dot.  The fact is just shy of 6k hp, I drop fast.  The fact is rangers, and I am speaking as a ranger, are greatly over powered.  we out run bards (that is not even fair to the bard class), we have enough dps to drop anyone by 5k hp before they see us or can close on us, which we won't let them do because we can snare, leg shot, root them.  The fact is we are the only class that functions in pvp. Swashies and brigs next, followed by assassins.  As a ranger I should not be able to kill bruisers and guardians.  These tanks were meant to avoid (bru) and take damage (guard).  Rangers have been way over powered in pvp for a long time.  Play a clothie and then give constructive criticism about the ranger class. If you really love the game and the class play your prey and see how well you do.  Rangers were not meant to pwn everyone - if the were the game would be called EQ2: Rise of the Ranger.

Vlahkmaak
06-17-2007, 01:54 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>All Rangers have is burst dmg... U want our Ranged dmg the same as our Melee or somethin?  If u actualy play your Ranger, u would know we be nothin if we didnt have any burst dmg... <img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote>I am not sure how I don't actually play a ranger if I have gotten one to lvl 51.  In fact, the main reasn I stopped playing a ranger early on was because it just was not fun to pwn everyone.  I still play him a few times per month and kills are far more easy to come by than deaths.  I have to really go out of my way to die usually, like snaring, rooting, and just using melee attks on plate tanks, which I have a fair chance at wining.  Burst damage is just what we have come to expect.   If our burst was toned down, and our dps was spread out, like say, necros, we could still top a parse, just not all at once.  I played a ranger in eq1 as well as eq2 and this eq2 ranger is just over powered.  I have played a necro in eq1, eq2 blue, and eq2 pvp and that class has really gotten the short end of the stick. The only class I am not intimately familiar with are druids.  I am not saying beat rangers so bad we no longer function as a class.  I am saying beat us so bad we have to function as a class. 

The_Real_Ohno
06-17-2007, 01:55 PM
Rangers dont pwn everyone, fact.

Cyst
06-17-2007, 02:57 PM
<p>Plaguemaster</p><p>At 51 your Ranger isn't winning against Brigands, Bruisers, Assassins, Wardens, melee spec'd Inquisitors, or Furies. You might beat unranked Assassins and maybe an occasional Bruiser or Brigand who is unranked, but most of the time these classes are going to destroy you.</p><p>Leave it to a Freep to claim a Ranger is overpowered when their side has two of the best PvP classes in the game hands down. It's a good thing the Brigand got hit equally as hard as the Ranger with this nerf stick.</p>

Cyst
06-17-2007, 03:03 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><cite>Demron wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>If you notice manashield go up hit them with your melee snare since it is now better than our leg shot snare and run off till the 30 seconds goes away.. Come back and kill the Wizard/Warlock.</p><p>As for healers I'm going to carry around a set of weapons with power drain proc's on them and the power drain poison just for them.</p></blockquote><p>Snare lasts for 6 seconds in PvP then you get 12 seconds of immunity (or 18, can't remember)  Would be hard to keep you snared away for so long.  Plus no class should be essentially invulnerable for 30 seconds.  Seems a little out of balance.</p><p>For all the other classes I fought on test, none of the others really seemed overpowered.  Some were harder to beat than others and some I couldn't beat, but that doensn't mean they are OP.</p></blockquote><p>Has there also been a change to all of our snares? I know I've always applied Leg Shot in between our melee snare (name is slipping my mind) and our poison snare has always stuck as far as I could tell.</p><p>I agree the manashield seems a little out of balance and I wonder if the Pumice Stone will strip it. Maybe worth testing? </p>

Vlahkmaak
06-17-2007, 04:00 PM
At 51 my ranger is winning against ranked players.  Druids give me the most trouble.  If I catch you at range I am going to hurt you very bad.  If I keep you at range I am gonna own you. Leave it to a "Q" who plays only 1 class to not see the issue here.  Furthermore - re read my posts.  I am not saying just nerf the ranger. All predator scouts need to be nerfed and yes that includes swashies and brigands.  We are scouts, not super light armored tanks.  We do to much upfront damage.  We accumulate tokens and status much faster than any of the other classes which means we get access to better gear befre the other classes which translates to more [I cannot control my vocabulary] whopping the other classes.  Get a clue.  Play more than one class and play on bothe sides.  Its a game.  When I am on my ranger I play my ranger.  When on my nec or guard I play those classes too.  Unlike some of you, like Noobloafs, I don't log back and forth between characters to spy and cuss others out.  Its a game.  Games are to be enjoyed.

EQGu
06-17-2007, 06:16 PM
<p>Who cares if they are "ranked' you know how many newbs are out there with titles? or ranks from killing botters? title doesnt mean much in this game. </p><p>If a grey ranger can go up and kill a lvl 70 clothy  that cloth is either a botter or afk. Any clothy that knows how to play wont get killed by a grey ranger. When the clothy gets hit and you dont have a target you will automatically target the person attacking you. so what you do before you try and look to see where that person is press pet attack or a fear or a stun or something then you run to them. and root them if its a grey your pet will own them so fast.</p><p>Rangers are no longer "overpowered" altho many classes that people thought were overpowered werent here is why... i have seen MANY classes beat "overpowered classes" for example stormin he was a clothie coercer he owned TONS of people even when resists were broken. Yet not many could because they are newbs and just cry nerf. The only 1 true overpowered class is a swash atm. the reason being because there is NO counter to them. Wardens can beat them sometimes and some rangers. </p><p>Some classes seem overpowered to most people because they are newbs and cant play as good as they really should be able to. For example wizards before resists were fixed, he was like the only wizard that could beat people, he could beat rangers, i fought him and it was always a CLOSE fight within 15% health. Troubadors has anyone seen azuresong play his troub? he was amazing at it, no other troubs were any good and they just accepted the fact that they cant kill anyone and made the excuse they were a bard. coercers = stormin.. plate tanks - etherian.. so many classes that people say omg we are underpowered can be really good if they knew how to play.</p><p>But i love the new ranger changes, we arent and cant be considered overpowered anymore which is awesome! I wont have any newb rangers ganking people and making a bad name for the ranger class i love to play. Oh and stylin stop whining about the changes things needed nerfing to be more even and help out the newbier players. You were never good at ranger at all, even with us being "overpowered".. now you might as well quit and roll something else because i dont see you adapting well to the changes.</p>

Broccoliswo
06-17-2007, 06:21 PM
They nerfed inspiration damage to less than half and you're still whining Pheelin? There are ways to counter inspiration like I said, unfortunately you gave up the best way <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Roald
06-18-2007, 09:18 AM
<cite>Plaguemeister wrote:</cite><blockquote>Grey con rangers have been known to kill my 70 necro (who is in t7 fabled/relic and better) very fast - something is quite wrong with that.</blockquote><p> [Removed for Content]!?!</p><p>You can fight back you know</p>

Mildavyn
06-18-2007, 09:32 AM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>Troubadors has anyone seen azuresong play his troub? he was amazing at it, no other troubs were any good and they just accepted the fact that they cant kill anyone and made the excuse they were a bard. </p></blockquote> I resent the implication that all Troubs suck. There are some damned good Troubs out there kicking [Removed for Content] and taking names. Any Troub who doesn't have a positive KvD ratio while soloing isn't trying hard enough. Troubadors are verging on overpowered as it is.

Kradun
06-18-2007, 10:40 AM
Rangers are fine, they just have an even more hard time fighting swashies and brigands because of the run speed nerf.  That just means, run from em for now.  I'm still trying to find a sure fire way to not die to them a lot.

Bozidar
06-18-2007, 10:48 AM
<cite>Kradun wrote:</cite><blockquote>Rangers are fine, they just have an even more hard time fighting swashies and brigands because of the run speed nerf.  That just means, run from em for now.  I'm still trying to find a sure fire way to not die to them a lot. </blockquote>You have to understand, people have built their toons around the idea of gank/run.  It's an in-combat evac as sure as Pact is.  They're upset that they're loosing it.  I feel so bad for them <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Honestly.. i'm not being sarcastic at all <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I'm deeply saddened that their cheap and overpowered style of playing is getting nerfed <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> those poor rangers <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

EQGu
06-18-2007, 11:30 AM
<p>quek i wasnt complaining about swashes on test. i was saying that before the new changes it was broken. it hits me for like 100 damage each hit, which is still a lot. You dont understand maybe because you always rely on your cooldowns? But, Swashes never needed cooldowns so 100 damage to each hit is still very powerful. when you dont need something and you have more it still rediculous. I was just saying that swashes are still powerful just not like they were. it will now take 7 seconds to eat through 8k hps intead of 3 seconds...</p><p>i few people have some ideas. and are taking bets on you quek...</p><p>1. Quek will reroll the next overpowered class.</p><p>2. Quek will lose his precious fame because he cant insta own people.</p><p>3. Quek will stay flying back and forth from SS to QH, trying to gank solo newbs and leach fame from other fights and evac/fly back to QH if there is competition</p><p> But thats just what i heard.</p>

Cyst
06-18-2007, 01:25 PM
<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kradun wrote:</cite><blockquote>Rangers are fine, they just have an even more hard time fighting swashies and brigands because of the run speed nerf.  That just means, run from em for now.  I'm still trying to find a sure fire way to not die to them a lot. </blockquote>You have to understand, people have built their toons around the idea of gank/run.  It's an in-combat evac as sure as Pact is.  They're upset that they're loosing it.  I feel so bad for them <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Honestly.. i'm not being sarcastic at all <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I'm deeply saddened that their cheap and overpowered style of playing is getting nerfed <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> those poor rangers <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote><p> Seriously, play a Ranger and see how hard it CAN be to get into range to use your bow. I'm a 58 Ranger and even now at 58 most of the server stops AT BOW range to cast on me, especially healers. I had one druid NEVER enter into melee with me once, not once AND HE WAS RANKED.</p><p>For months now I've spec'd out of every single run speed advantage I could and kept what I couldn't get out of. I've got 11% in-combat run speed while many others have 6%, and everyone can have if they wanted a 6% run speed. For months now I've been doing very well for reasons I'll do well after the patch. But when I'm fighting any other scout with 6% run speed it is fighting tooth and nail to get one shot off in PvP once melee starts.</p><p>If we can't use our bow in a PvP fight we might as well be swashies right? Or would you be willing to allow us to use our bow in melee range?</p>

Kradun
06-18-2007, 02:49 PM
<cite>Demron wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kradun wrote:</cite><blockquote>Rangers are fine, they just have an even more hard time fighting swashies and brigands because of the run speed nerf.  That just means, run from em for now.  I'm still trying to find a sure fire way to not die to them a lot. </blockquote>You have to understand, people have built their toons around the idea of gank/run.  It's an in-combat evac as sure as Pact is.  They're upset that they're loosing it.  I feel so bad for them <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Honestly.. i'm not being sarcastic at all <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I'm deeply saddened that their cheap and overpowered style of playing is getting nerfed <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> those poor rangers <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote><p> Seriously, play a Ranger and see how hard it CAN be to get into range to use your bow. I'm a 58 Ranger and even now at 58 most of the server stops AT BOW range to cast on me, especially healers. I had one druid NEVER enter into melee with me once, not once AND HE WAS RANKED.</p><p>For months now I've spec'd out of every single run speed advantage I could and kept what I couldn't get out of. I've got 11% in-combat run speed while many others have 6%, and everyone can have if they wanted a 6% run speed. For months now I've been doing very well for reasons I'll do well after the patch. But when I'm fighting any other scout with 6% run speed it is fighting tooth and nail to get one shot off in PvP once melee starts.</p><p>If we can't use our bow in a PvP fight we might as well be swashies right? Or would you be willing to allow us to use our bow in melee range?</p></blockquote>Don't forget though, your not meant to be able to beat all classes.

Killque
06-18-2007, 03:59 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><cite>Killque wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Demron wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Killque wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Killque wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Just an fyi.. Level 38 ranger....</p><p>(1181789754)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:54 2007] YOU are critically hit by Hidden Fire for 648 piercing damage. (1181789754)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:54 2007] YOU are hit by Quick Shot for 92 piercing damage. (1181789755)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:55 2007] Jeagon hits YOU for 229 piercing damage. (1181789756)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:56 2007] Jeagon's Triple Fire hits YOU for 79 piercing damage. (1181789756)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:56 2007] You get better at Defense (210/215). (1181789756)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:56 2007] Jeagon's Triple Fire hits YOU for 124 piercing damage. (1181789756)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:56 2007] Jeagon's Triple Fire hits YOU for 218 piercing damage. (1181789757)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:57 2007] Jeagon's Crippling Arrow critically hits YOU for 416 piercing damage. (118178975<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />[Wed Jun 13 21:55:58 2007] You say to the guild,"but hes 44" (1181789759)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:59 2007] Jeagon's Miracle Shot critically hits YOU for 363 piercing damage. (1181789759)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:59 2007] YOUR Dire Shroud absorbs 111 points of damage from being done to YOURSELF (1181789759)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:59 2007] Jeagon's caustic poison hits YOU but fails to inflict any damage. (1181789759)[Wed Jun 13 21:55:59 2007] Jeagon's Quick Shot hits YOU for 92 piercing damage. (1181789760)[Wed Jun 13 21:56:00 2007] Jeagon critically hits YOU for 250 piercing damage. (1181789760)[Wed Jun 13 21:56:00 2007] Jeagon's Quick Shot critically hits YOU for 119 piercing damage. (1181789761)[Wed Jun 13 21:56:01 2007] Jeagon's Trick Arrow hits YOU for 178 piercing damage. (1181789762)[Wed Jun 13 21:56:02 2007] YOUR Dire Shroud absorbs 34 points of damage from being done to YOURSELF (1181789762)[Wed Jun 13 21:56:02 2007] Jeagon's Flaming Shot hits YOU for 45 heat and 1 piercing damage. (1181789762)[Wed Jun 13 21:56:02 2007] Jeagon's Flaming Shot hits YOU for 69 heat and 1 piercing damage. 3067 dmg in 8 seconds</p><p> Are you all reeeally complaining??</p></blockquote> So in eight seconds you weren't able to select the ranger and hit him once but you were able to talk to your guild mates?  I smell something fishy!  <img src="/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote><p> I was standing right next to the catapult in zek. </p><p>I had already typed the message, it took me a second to hit enter to send it..</p><p>I clicked on the catapult once I realized I wasnt going to be doing anything ..</p></blockquote>Wow Kill your defense was NINE POINTS below maximum meaning you were missing close to 10% avoidance for someone of equal level to you. It's no wonder people whine about dying. </blockquote><p>Gladiate's defence may be, sure... but he didnt die. I escaped... I my thread was not a whine thread.. I was just posting that dmg log as an informitive point of reference for others.</p><p>Gladiate = lvl 42 Ranger = lvl 38</p><p>FYI</p><p>Edit: I had just dinged 42... My defence was 6 points lower, not 9 and less than halfway through the fight it was only 5 points lower than max. </p></blockquote><p> 8 Seconds and you didn't get a single point of damage in there.  Not a single stun/stifle in there either.  IMO you deserve to die, be a little more alert <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  </p><p>Defilers are a tough fight for any ranger if you just tried...  IMO you have no right to be complaining here.</p></blockquote><p>[Removed for Content] is wrong with you people?</p><p>I didnt even attempt to fight back as I was in the red by the time I noticed anything, and I was standing right next to the Catapult in Zek. So I zoned out, unharmed.</p><p>pfft... I deserved to die.. [Removed for Content]</p><p>LET ME REIDERATE!</p><p>The point of my post was to give some hard facts about the rangers abilities, not say I couldnt beat him. </p>

Armawk
06-18-2007, 04:23 PM
<cite>Killque wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I didnt even attempt to fight back as I was in the red by the time I noticed anything, and I was standing right next to the Catapult in Zek. So I zoned out, unharmed.</p><p>pfft... I deserved to die.. [Removed for Content]</p><p>LET ME REIDERATE!</p><p>The point of my post was to give some hard facts about the rangers abilities, not say I couldnt beat him. </p></blockquote>Noone here wishes to think before they slag you off. I got the same reaction "you are an assassin! you should quit PVP if this happened to you". Its easier than addressing the point being made.

EQGu
06-18-2007, 04:46 PM
<p>before you could notice? and it was 8 seconds? you typed something you must have noticed before you hit enter.. my guess you were typing got hit and did the "OH S***" tried to look around and stumbled a little before you died...in 8 seconds i could be reading the forums realize im getting hit (via sound) tab back and get evac off in 8 seconds how did you just realize at red? you must have been doing something else, if your paying attention you would know you got hit immediately and been able to react 1-2 seconds into it.. You just got careless is all.</p><p>Also it sounds like he was a twink and you werent.. Oh and there were a few seconds that he buffed and stuff while you were standing there not paying attention so it took 10 seconds of you doing nothing to kill you...IF you were paying attention you would have tried to cast something on him soon as hidden shot hit you.</p>

Elephanton
06-19-2007, 06:28 AM
Nerfing rangers leg shot and root <b>along</b> with in-combat speed is not good idea really... either of these should stay intact.

Elephanton
06-19-2007, 08:23 PM
<p>So, looks like HT and Decap are not getting a nerf according to devs.</p><p>This is so funny, devs just do exact opposite of what we ask... we ask to nerf big hits - they don't do it... instead, they nerf ranger's root and snare and in-combat speed, which was totally uncalled for and which would ruin ranger is a class... how many times should we repeat that if a ranger can't get a distance - he cannot use 80% of his CAs! They are just forcing us to fight from inaccessible places <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

chiren76
06-20-2007, 05:53 AM
<cite>Plaguemeister wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>Snipershot is weak lol, and tbh if a 70 lets a grey sniper shot him that means he is not using totems, etc, and other precautions that would allow him to see the ranger during the 5 sec cast time, which would give him time to break stealth and interrupt sniper shot. However, it must be a giant class disparity because some guy is too cheap to spend 70 silver on a totem! </blockquote> You obviously did not pay attention or read carefully.  I have a 51 ranger. I play him very well. I know to never leave home without totems.  I am constantly spamming next pvp target when out and about solo.  I am constantly circling my vision 360 to check check everywhere.  I am trying to figure out where I might hide were I on my ranger.  The fact is that if a ranger catches me at range I am dead before my pet can close the distance.  the fact is rangers will catch clothies at range.  If you let a clothie get a jump on oyu at range you must really suck.  The fact is that at range a ranger can drop3-5k hit on me while my best range shot is  mini nuke which does 150-200 over time before disease based mitigation.  Fear will not reach out and when it does it is invariabley resisted even with extra aa's in the resist line for fear.  further more I ahve to turn my back and run which opens up a soft spot or I have to try to close the distance and hope I can get a stun or life tap off, all the while being hit by massivve damage.   My relic, fabled, and set gear does not give me the avoidance, mitigation, nor disruption to be able to survive an opening salvo.  I have no evac.  I have to stand and fight.  I have to stand to cast, not run and shoot like I can on my ranger.  Even my auto attk bow shots hit harder than a necro dot.  The fact is just shy of 6k hp, I drop fast.  The fact is rangers, and I am speaking as a ranger, are greatly over powered.  we out run bards (that is not even fair to the bard class), we have enough dps to drop anyone by 5k hp before they see us or can close on us, which we won't let them do because we can snare, leg shot, root them.  The fact is we are the only class that functions in pvp. Swashies and brigs next, followed by assassins.  As a ranger I should not be able to kill bruisers and guardians.  These tanks were meant to avoid (bru) and take damage (guard).  Rangers have been way over powered in pvp for a long time.  Play a clothie and then give constructive criticism about the ranger class. If you really love the game and the class play your prey and see how well you do.  Rangers were not meant to pwn everyone - if the were the game would be called EQ2: Rise of the Ranger.</blockquote>Look at the server you are on buddy. Try Nagafen. Then talk to us about rangers being overpowered. I don't mind being a class that can't take down everything in its wake but I do mind making our class even more troublesome as it is.  I've pvp'd on the test server plenty to know that most if not all scout classes will be going down the stamina line.  There's a big difference between group pvp and solo pvping primarily because it takes more skill and finesse to use all your abilities instead of relying on a tank or a healer or other buff bots in your group. The update forces me to relearn my class big deal. But the changes in duration of times on snares and roots is going to put the a world of hurt on this class. We rely on kiting to kill. We can't go toe to toe and obviously resists are going to do us no good. I don't mind the damage decrease with sniper because it is a pretty rare CA I use. And any half-dimwitted healer can out heal that damage. Pop instas and heal. For any other class, you havent engaged in combat but the ranger did and everybody has sprint buttons.  Most people think it's easy to play a ranger. Maybe in a group setting. But it's not so don't knock until you get one to T7 and solo.

Kradun
06-20-2007, 01:54 PM
<cite>chiren76 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Plaguemeister wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>Snipershot is weak lol, and tbh if a 70 lets a grey sniper shot him that means he is not using totems, etc, and other precautions that would allow him to see the ranger during the 5 sec cast time, which would give him time to break stealth and interrupt sniper shot. However, it must be a giant class disparity because some guy is too cheap to spend 70 silver on a totem! </blockquote> You obviously did not pay attention or read carefully.  I have a 51 ranger. I play him very well. I know to never leave home without totems.  I am constantly spamming next pvp target when out and about solo.  I am constantly circling my vision 360 to check check everywhere.  I am trying to figure out where I might hide were I on my ranger.  The fact is that if a ranger catches me at range I am dead before my pet can close the distance.  the fact is rangers will catch clothies at range.  If you let a clothie get a jump on oyu at range you must really suck.  The fact is that at range a ranger can drop3-5k hit on me while my best range shot is  mini nuke which does 150-200 over time before disease based mitigation.  Fear will not reach out and when it does it is invariabley resisted even with extra aa's in the resist line for fear.  further more I ahve to turn my back and run which opens up a soft spot or I have to try to close the distance and hope I can get a stun or life tap off, all the while being hit by massivve damage.   My relic, fabled, and set gear does not give me the avoidance, mitigation, nor disruption to be able to survive an opening salvo.  I have no evac.  I have to stand and fight.  I have to stand to cast, not run and shoot like I can on my ranger.  Even my auto attk bow shots hit harder than a necro dot.  The fact is just shy of 6k hp, I drop fast.  The fact is rangers, and I am speaking as a ranger, are greatly over powered.  we out run bards (that is not even fair to the bard class), we have enough dps to drop anyone by 5k hp before they see us or can close on us, which we won't let them do because we can snare, leg shot, root them.  The fact is we are the only class that functions in pvp. Swashies and brigs next, followed by assassins.  As a ranger I should not be able to kill bruisers and guardians.  These tanks were meant to avoid (bru) and take damage (guard).  Rangers have been way over powered in pvp for a long time.  Play a clothie and then give constructive criticism about the ranger class. If you really love the game and the class play your prey and see how well you do.  Rangers were not meant to pwn everyone - if the were the game would be called EQ2: Rise of the Ranger.</blockquote>Look at the server you are on buddy. Try Nagafen. Then talk to us about rangers being overpowered. I don't mind being a class that can't take down everything in its wake but I do mind making our class even more troublesome as it is.  I've pvp'd on the test server plenty to know that most if not all scout classes will be going down the stamina line.  There's a big difference between group pvp and solo pvping primarily because it takes more skill and finesse to use all your abilities instead of relying on a tank or a healer or other buff bots in your group. The update forces me to relearn my class big deal. But the changes in duration of times on snares and roots is going to put the a world of hurt on this class. We rely on kiting to kill. We can't go toe to toe and obviously resists are going to do us no good. I don't mind the damage decrease with sniper because it is a pretty rare CA I use. And any half-dimwitted healer can out heal that damage. Pop instas and heal. For any other class, you havent engaged in combat but the ranger did and everybody has sprint buttons.  Most people think it's easy to play a ranger. Maybe in a group setting. But it's not so don't knock until you get one to T7 and solo. </blockquote>Well we can all agree on this.... Saiyuki smells like farts cuz he hangs around sabien who also smells like farts.

shagr1414
06-20-2007, 02:00 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><cite>Plaguemeister wrote:</cite><blockquote>Grey con rangers have been known to kill my 70 necro (who is in t7 fabled/relic and better) very fast - something is quite wrong with that.</blockquote><p> [I cannot control my vocabulary]!?!</p><p>You can fight back you know</p></blockquote><p>Not when we are dead b4 your whole round of attacks is even done. Thats what we see, so [Removed for Content] and go play Evergank some more. Your'e soooooo talented.....</p><p>[Removed for Content] rangers </p>

Qanil
06-20-2007, 02:20 PM
<p>I very often 2 shot 70 mages with my 66 ranger.  I'm not kidding.  they die before they ever know what hit them or where it came from.</p><p>I find it amusing.  I thought it sucked so bad I quit playing my ranger.  no, i'm not kidding.</p>

Cyst
06-20-2007, 04:06 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>I very often 2 shot 70 mages with my 66 ranger.  I'm not kidding.  they die before they ever know what hit them or where it came from.</p><p>I find it amusing.  I thought it sucked so bad I quit playing my ranger.  no, i'm not kidding.</p></blockquote><p> The only people you're two shotting are botters, or players who've leveled really fast to get the levels, and have no gear. I too, two shot casters but when you run into a caster who has PvP'd a lot you're in for a fight you might lose. I've seen Warlocks on LIVE SERVER take out entire groups with pets named "why are you running" and the title of DREADNAUGHT running around solo. A high ranked caster running around solo. /scratches head</p><p>I've recently made a Warlock before the changes who is in T2 where scouts, especially Bards are very, very powerful. 91 Kills later and 18 deaths he is Slayer and it has been the best fun I've had yet with any character, BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE FIGHTING ME. The AAs a Warlock and Wizard get for survivability are awesome, but I can only guess most go for the AAs that increase their damage.</p>

Magius789
06-20-2007, 04:30 PM
A warlock with his Focus Casting AA line and Manashield is a VERY powerful advisary.  Add to that his 10 more points it takes to max his mage's shield ward and they are a serious force to be dealt with.  Granted it takes some good AA to accomplish that, but its the same for most classes.  SK' with there life taps AA's, ranger/assassin with there 35% increase cast speed, etc.  It takes a lot of AA (about 50 or so) to get it ALL maxed but they are a very tough class to beat.

chiren76
06-21-2007, 01:22 AM
sigh so true tbh...

Elephanton
06-21-2007, 02:55 PM
<p>So what... Most "fixes" got reverted but ALAS not the ranger ones. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>We still get the biggest nerfs of all classes... not just nerf but complete change of class (no in-combat speed + nerfed snares = no more kiting)</p>

Elephanton
06-26-2007, 05:05 PM
<p>So I played on the test server and what can I say. These changes suck. Overall - total inability to make the distance with melee figthers in the duel. So most of the time 90% of my CAs are red and unusable.</p><p>Loss of in-combat speed really feels and it broke our ability to kite, very little chance against melee fighters now.</p><p>Leg Shot is pretty useless now - requires 1 sec of standing still to cast and snares for only 6 seconds. I think this is shortest snare in the whole game, am I right? So smart to give it to class which is most depended on snaring the enemy.</p><p>Our 2 sec root is <b>completely</b> useless as well, as I suspected - 2 sec is nothing - I had to exclude it from my tactical arsenal and am now only using this ability as a melee damage.</p><p>Overall, ranger is completely unplayable now in terms of good and fair 1 on 1 fights. Looks like the only remaining tactic would be to sit in unreachable places and shot newbs from there... something I never enjoyed much, so if none of this changes get reverted I see no point of playing ranger any longer and I think I'll just quit.</p>

Bloodfa
06-26-2007, 05:10 PM
<p>Get all you gimped Rangers in groups, assist the main and let loose a rain of arrows.  Thwack-thwack-thwack-thwack-thwack-thwack-thwack-thwack-thwack-thwack-thwack-thwack-thwack-thwack-thwack-drop .... next target.  Problem solved, see?</p><p> Sorry, couldn't help myself. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Badaxe Ba
06-27-2007, 03:37 AM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>Get all you gimped Rangers in groups, assist the main and let loose a rain of arrows.  Thwack-thwack-thwack-thwack-thwack-thwack-thwack-thwack-thwack-thwack-thwack-thwack-thwack-thwack-thwack-drop .... next target.  Problem solved, see?</p><p> Sorry, couldn't help myself. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p></blockquote><p> Good idea!</p><p>Oh wait..... it has a minimum range, so if our target closes, no rain of arrows.  no ranged attacks at all.  Left with exactly 4 melee attacks that don't require position/stealth, and 3 that do. Which have also been nerfed.</p><p>RIP Ranger.</p>

Cathalo
06-27-2007, 04:00 AM
<cite>THEWELL wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>The honest difference about rangers in reguards to other scout classes.....</p><p>Rangers actually have to get the jump on someone...and when they do, its not much of a fight.</p><p>They have a much harder time in pvp vs the other scout  classes.  </p><p>You never see a ranger run strait up in your face pvp.  </p><p>There is no dispatch, devitalise, double up = dead.</p><p>There is no stun, freezing strike, decap = dead.</p><p>There is no Engaurd, Insparation = dead.</p><p>Rangers have to seriously pick there targets.  And the reason majority of players are upset is the simple fact, that if you die....you never saw it comming.  You were dead before you knew it.  Rangers are not in your face pvp.  If ranger's kill you....you were dead before you knew what happened....</p><p>But what everyone doest realise...is the fact...that this does not happen EVERY fight.  This is EXTREMELY situational.  It not like every time you fight a brigand, or swash...you know your gonna die.  </p><p>If you've gotten the jump on a ranger you know this is far from the truth.  If you get the jump on a ranger = dead ranger.</p><p>This is the biggest problems IMO about everyone wanting Ranger's nerfed.  Its not IN YOUR FACE pvp.  They never see it comming.</p><p> But one thing I promise you....in solo pvp, Swash, Brigs, and Assassin's...win a heck of alot more fights then rangers.  And they require half the skill. </p><p>Its not like ranger's can macro their attacks.  Trying to keep ranged makes this impossible.</p></blockquote><p> And just how the hell are u supposed to get the jump on someone that has a personal hand held radar attached to their chainmail?  You make it sound like any class should be able to just sneak up on the ranger and kill him, but its far easier said than done.  Good rangers?  Forget about it, you aint sneaking up on them, aint gonna happen.</p><p>Not to mention, those other classes you mentioned do not do near the range dmg that rangers do.  They atleast have to melee.  </p><p>I have an idea, why dont we give Wizards track and the ability to add sneak attack dmg to their spells, and give them faster movement or even flight!!!!  Then they would basically be what rangers are now.  Unbeatable 90% of the [I cannot control my vocabulary] time.</p>

Gutmonger
06-27-2007, 05:35 AM
<p>My ranger is 23. He will stay that level untill they balance them. Not because of the patch or because of the class but because he is way to over powered. It is not fun playing a char that nobody can challenge. There is not one class I can not kill. I dont care if you are a twinked to the wall guardian. If a well geared ranger opens up the fight at range he will win. I can pick off any one player in a group easy 90% of the time before the rest even figure out whats up. </p><p>When you give a class with decent defensive ability+speed+melee dmg a super high ranged dps you get the EQ2 ranger. Aside from an outright heal the ranger can do a bit of everything and they do it all very well. Anyone playing a ranger has seen this coming for a long time. You just can not have one char that does so much so well in pvp. On top of all of this gear = win or loose in this twink heavy game. Rangers twinked can be even more effective then any other class in pvp.</p>

Elephanton
06-27-2007, 09:00 AM
Gotta love people with lowbie ranger alts who have no idea how ranger fares in the end game and yet thinking they know enough to make comments about the class.

Soulhunt
06-27-2007, 09:44 AM
<p>im an assassin...here my pov to ur nerfs. </p><p>in the past i could be shot down before i got close enough to kill a good ranger.</p><p>in test i pwned 99% of the rangers with ease.....but i m thinking they just noobs. one ranger in same gear as me with a master title.... the fights were very close and he won 2 out of 3. it seems with the new changes rangers will still be able to drop anyone but will require more skill to do it. kiting will become more critical to ur success as a ranger now more then ever. no more shotting someone down before they get to u.</p><p> i agree durations shouldve been left alone, and i fell sorry for rangers to a point. i just dont like the idea of any class using multiple snares with out gaining immunity. seems swashies and brigs have 3 or more snares..not sure how many snares a ranger gets but i think it bogus that if rooted 3 times and u cure it all roots go away and u gain immunity but get snared 3 times and u have to remove one at a time [10 sec recast on cure pot] and gain no immunity.again, not sure how many snares a ranger gets but i feel that snare change needed and would have less effect on predators and help us fight a swashy or brig with 3 or more snares.</p><p>lastly good luck to u rangers out there and i hope u guys dont get nerf as bad as they are in test.</p><p>SOULHUNTER</p>

Bloodfa
06-27-2007, 12:46 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>Get all you gimped Rangers in groups, assist the main and let loose a rain of arrows.  Thwack-thwack-thwack-thwack-thwack-thwack-thwack-thwack-thwack-thwack-thwack-thwack-thwack-thwack-thwack-drop .... next target.  Problem solved, see?</p><p> Sorry, couldn't help myself. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p></blockquote><p> Good idea!</p><p>Oh wait..... it has a minimum range, so if our target closes, no rain of arrows.  no ranged attacks at all.  Left with exactly 4 melee attacks that don't require position/stealth, and 3 that do. Which have also been nerfed.</p><p>RIP Ranger.</p></blockquote>Heheheh, actually, I was being facetious with that post, but actually I'd think that a full group of Rangers would be able to attack-root-continue firing and drop a single target rather quickly, and then backstab the living hell out of the enemy once they close, assuming everybody encircles the target.  But then I don't roll with my Ranger; he just gets to cook for my crew. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

EQGu
06-27-2007, 04:44 PM
<p>well i played my ranger on test its not to hard, some classes are almost unbeatable now but most arent..</p><p>rangers have 3 snares which 2 can you really get off in a fight because one is from behind and ranged so its to stop runners but we have a 15m snare that resists like 10 times in a row if your lucky, and our ranged snare which breaks on 10% of attack which is basically the next auto attack..</p><p>the ranged on is down to 6 second duration and the other snare is left alone. plus we have to stop to cast our ranged attacks, so we snare for 6 seconds get off 1 attack before we have to move again or else the target gets too close, thats if that snare doesnt get parried then when running away you gotta snare on the run with your close range snare and it gets resisted like a million times in a row.</p><p>somehow i still manage (i might have a few more tricks up my sleeve) but yes crap rangers will be even worse and good rangers will be ok imo. but rangers did get hit with the nerf bat the hardest.</p>

Shinnar
06-27-2007, 06:49 PM
<p>Yeah, someone created a toon on pvp test, betabuffed, came to docks and shooted all fabled, grouped and buffed guardian. And got owned by that group.</p><p>[Removed for Content]? What a crappy damage. Going to write a ranger-is-nerfed-terribly thread on forum. </p><p>He, of course, didnt use poison, had that normal bow, lev 50 handcrafted arrows and so on.</p><p>Situation is of course little different. </p><p>Sniper shot -  long cast, long reuse, cant move, stealth, good damage. It is ok by me. Dont see any difference when compared to fusion, apocalypse and so. I dont think it need any special nerf, overall damagelowering should be enough.</p><p>What was and is still a problem, is autoattack damage and additional procs on that attacks.  Lol, when someone has that queynos killij and few other items, it is really fun to read combat logs. Poison, quick shot, vampiric adornment, bow proc (if it has any), equip procs.... That is what really makes this class uber. High chance for ranged and spell critical too. And chance to doubleattack (well, another proc)</p><p>Special arrows. I dont know if in T7 exists something like those deathfist arrows (lev40), but i bet it does. Why not make some 25% more damage than normal(and another 100 dmg overtime) with one autoattack, also with incredible high chance to hit. (i use them too, btw, lol)</p><p>With that in combat speed nerf, i dont know why you cry so much about it. When you gank someone, he drops in no time. When you are forced to fair fight or if you are 'ganked', you will do what you alwas do, run or evac(out of combat runspeed is same)</p><p>So, ranger was,  is  and ,unless they remove arrow bonuses and make bows 3s delay(less procs), still will be the best ganker, best solo pvp class. So no need to cry.   </p>

Cyst
06-27-2007, 07:32 PM
<cite>Shinnar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Yeah, someone created a toon on pvp test, betabuffed, came to docks and shooted all fabled, grouped and buffed guardian. And got owned by that group.</p><p>[I cannot control my vocabulary]? What a crappy damage. Going to write a ranger-is-nerfed-terribly thread on forum. </p><p>He, of course, didnt use poison, had that normal bow, lev 50 handcrafted arrows and so on.</p><p>Situation is of course little different. </p><p>Sniper shot -  long cast, long reuse, cant move, stealth, good damage. It is ok by me. Dont see any difference when compared to fusion, apocalypse and so. I dont think it need any special nerf, overall damagelowering should be enough.</p><p>What was and is still a problem, is autoattack damage and additional procs on that attacks.  Lol, when someone has that queynos killij and few other items, it is really fun to read combat logs. Poison, quick shot, vampiric adornment, bow proc (if it has any), equip procs.... That is what really makes this class uber. High chance for ranged and spell critical too. And chance to doubleattack (well, another proc)</p><p>Special arrows. I dont know if in T7 exists something like those deathfist arrows (lev40), but i bet it does. Why not make some 25% more damage than normal(and another 100 dmg overtime) with one autoattack, also with incredible high chance to hit. (i use them too, btw, lol)</p><p>With that in combat speed nerf, i dont know why you cry so much about it. When you gank someone, he drops in no time. When you are forced to fair fight or if you are 'ganked', you will do what you alwas do, run or evac(out of combat runspeed is same)</p><p>So, ranger was,  is  and ,unless they remove arrow bonuses and make bows 3s delay(less procs), still will be the best ganker, best solo pvp class. So no need to cry.   </p></blockquote><p>A Ranger is a Wizard without manashield. Seriously.. We die equally as fast to Brigands and sometimes Assassins as some cloth casters die to our arrows. A well played and well spec'd Wizard and Warlock are by far more dangerous than a Ranger is if they carry an equal amount of potions and totems. YET, you're getting your manashield increased to 1.5. I recently made a baby Warlock in T2 where all scouts are overpowered including Bards and I'm cleaning house with him and having more fun with my Warlock than I ever did my Ranger. But, I'm a good player and learn, not cry.</p><p>The Ranger is a ranged fighter. He has to get at range to do 90% of his damage and when he is at range he HAS TO STOP to use his bow combat arts. Without in-combat run speed of at least 12% he can't effectively do this. Imagine as a caster what it would be like if you couldn't cast a single spell when someone was in melee with you. That is pretty much a Ranger. Yet this nerf puts Rangers at 5% in-combat run speed and virtually takes away the Rangers snares and root.</p><p>If that isn't bad enough Assassins, Brigands, Guardian, Beserkers, et cetera have multiple stuns, snares, roots, et cetera to ensure once they're on you, you can't get away.</p><p>The Ranger was the at the bottom of the scouts, now they're at the bottom of the entire PvP food chain. I suspect many Rangers will be picking you off when you're engaged in PvE fights instead of letting you finish your kills, or rolling up new characters. Beserker, Guardian, Wizard, and Warlock will be the new PvP top dogs. </p>

badbeeker
06-28-2007, 12:28 AM
<p>"But, I'm a good player and learn, not cry." "The Ranger was the at the bottom of the scouts, now they're at the bottom of the entire PvP food chain. I suspect many Rangers will be picking you off when you're engaged in PvE fights instead of letting you finish your kills, or rolling up new characters. Beserker, Guardian, Wizard, and Warlock will be the new PvP top dogs."</p><p>Sounds like you dont learn and do plenty of crying. </p>

Magius789
06-28-2007, 12:58 AM
Regardless of how you feel on what he is saying the fact is he is exactly right.  All you whiners and maoners out there were able to get an entire class changed away from their description because you don't know how to fight one.....its easy. Sprint to ranger..stun/root/snare ranger...ranger can no longer do any type of meaningful dmg....dead ranger.  Maybe next time we can cry and maon and get heals taken away from healers because its giving them an equivilant of 10 lives....<img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Orthureon
06-28-2007, 01:05 AM
<p>Demron,</p><p>Whenever I have died to a ranger it is not from a CA, it is from a bow autoattack. Especially at T7 getting hit for 1200-2100 per shot is crazy. I only know T7 from Beta buffing. So I am sure not all Rangers have that sweet bow (Sarnak War Bow or somesuch), but I am sure they can get something close.</p><p> If you think rangers are [Removed for Content] go fight Pheelin, he will teach you how to play a ranger. I lost to him EVERY time with both and Inquis and an SK (PT'ed him aswell lol). Yet versus other rangers I tear them apart while they are spamming CAs and keeping me snared. I guess autoattack is the way to go.</p><p>Also, saying you cannot kite without in-combat speed is not true at all, your snare slows by like 40-70% and lasts for like 12s and is a decent recast. So meaning a melee class may actually be able to get close enough to beat you. Since they will have a window between the snare wearing off and recast. However I see that as balance, as rolling a ranger shouldn't mean "I own all melee classes". If that was the case, then Wizards and Warlocks should get in-combat run speed because they wear cloth, take longer to cast than you do, have less HP and can be interrupted.</p>

Cyst
06-28-2007, 01:24 AM
<cite>Orthureon wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Demron,</p><p>Whenever I have died to a ranger it is not from a CA, it is from a bow autoattack. Especially at T7 getting hit for 1200-2100 per shot is crazy. I only know T7 from Beta buffing. So I am sure not all Rangers have that sweet bow (Sarnak War Bow or somesuch), but I am sure they can get something close.</p><p> If you think rangers are [Removed for Content] go fight Pheelin, he will teach you how to play a ranger. I lost to him EVERY time with both and Inquis and an SK (PT'ed him aswell lol). Yet versus other rangers I tear them apart while they are spamming CAs and keeping me snared. I guess autoattack is the way to go.</p><p>Also, saying you cannot kite without in-combat speed is not true at all, your snare slows by like 40-70% and lasts for like 12s and is a decent recast. So meaning a melee class may actually be able to get close enough to beat you. Since they will have a window between the snare wearing off and recast. However I see that as balance, as rolling a ranger shouldn't mean "I own all melee classes". If that was the case, then Wizards and Warlocks should get in-combat run speed because they wear cloth, take longer to cast than you do, have less HP and can be interrupted.</p></blockquote><p>If you were being kited on test, quit now. Seriously.</p><p>Snare now has an immunity like Root, and our key snare lasts a whole, get this "6 SECONDS" if we don't cancel it on our next attack. Our in-melee snare still lasts 12 seconds but again it canceled after my next shot virtually every time.</p><p>But that is besides the point. You can cure it with Arcane potions.. Let me repeat that again. YOU CAN CURE IT WITH ARCANE POTIONS!!!! Meaning for the remainder of the fight you're immune to our snares unless our poison snare proc's which is only a 40% snare. And your Inquisitor CAN CURE the snare too on top of the Arcane potion so if your Inquisitor who can specialize in the best melee damage in the game got kited by a Ranger.. QUIT NOW!</p><p>For a Ranger to kite your inquisitor hitting for the damage you say he has to have a 7 second - 8 second delay, 5 seconds with his haste buff. 1200-2100 damage if he doesn't double attack "<b>10% of the time</b>". How much can you heal in 5 seconds? Even still a level 70 Ranger isn't going to have that many Hit Points, roughly 7000 for a well geared Ranger. As an inquisitor if you use some of the snare clickies and sprint at the Ranger, "FORCING HIM TO SPRINT" your insane double attack rate (isn't it 100%) with your insane critical hit possibilities with a two handed weapon you could easily shave off 7000 hit points. I've had well spec'd and geared inquisitors hit me for 1500 damage with a two handed weapon twice in a row.</p><p>For that matter, after the patch, you don't even have to sprint because the Ranger does, just to get away from you and eventually in a short period of time he will be out of power, and back to 5% or 0% in-combat run speed. As an inquisitor your high mitigation, decent hit points and the ability to heal yourself and out last the Ranger is enough for you to win, let alone your insane ability to deal melee damage far more than any other melee. I've seen Inquisitors parse damage higher than a Wizard could dish out.</p><p>Your shadow knight on the other hand is pretty gimped without harm touch and I could write an entire page on how to fix them, but harm touch one shotting people isn't what they need. </p>

Mildavyn
06-28-2007, 04:23 AM
<p>Actually Demron, inquisitors aren't all that.</p><p>They get 100% melee crits (80% after GU36) and only 20% double attack (Drains power EVERY SECOND when they use it). Also, just like rangers, they have to  have the gear to do good DPS. Not quite as insane as you make em out to be. Also if they're out-parsing your wizard, then your wizards absolutely suck. Also calling Inquisitors king of melee DPS might annoy a few scouts... it's also 100% not true.</p><p>SKs dont need HT. I do use it (silly not to IMO) but I would gladly trade it for a skill to stop (or even lower) interupts.</p>

Cyst
06-28-2007, 04:34 AM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>Actually Demron, inquisitors aren't all that.</p><p>They get 100% melee crits (80% after GU36) and only 20% double attack (Drains power EVERY SECOND when they use it). Also, just like rangers, they have to  have the gear to do good DPS. Not quite as insane as you make em out to be. Also if they're out-parsing your wizard, then your wizards absolutely suck. Also calling Inquisitors king of melee DPS might annoy a few scouts... it's also 100% not true.</p><p>SKs dont need HT. I do use it (silly not to IMO) but I would gladly trade it for a skill to stop (or even lower) interupts.</p></blockquote><p> I've seen the parse logs both PvP, and care bear servers. I've also seen them in action, up front and personal. Exaggerations aside a well built, and well geared Inquisitor can compete for the top melee slot, and top damage slot. And the only scouts that might be annoyed by the damage an Inquisitor is doing in melee would be the Brigand and Assassin, go figure.</p><p>The ironic thing about Freeps complaining about Rangers is the fact they have the most unbalancing abilities in the game. Harm Touch, Decap, and a Miracle that still does some decent damage, and before the nerf you couldn't win a fight if you were hit by the Miracle. Even more Ironic Freeps have the top two best classes in PvP in the game. The Brigand, and the Assassin. Freep casters are complaining about being one or two shotted while others complain about being three shotted, yourself included Paikas when many of you don't consider that any class in the game can be one shotted by an Assassin, not just casters and that a Brigand can hands down destroy any class in the game in under 5 seconds, with the exception of the Swashbuckler.</p><p>The whining irritates me because the Assassin and Brigand are far superior than a Ranger, yet here we are with some very big changes that hurt the Ranger. But I can understand it being hard learning to play another character class on the evil side when you house the most overpowered abilities, and classes in the game.</p>

Unknown Name
06-28-2007, 05:48 AM
<p>Did i miss something! I thought i was a predator. doesn't that mean i stalk and prey upon the weak? </p><p>Maybe SOE didn't take in cosideration that the classes that we could "gank" should have never left town without a group in the first place, and when you do you should expect and be prepared to deal with the beast that is stalking and watching your every move. Oh wait, former beast turned teddybear!</p>

CresentBlade
06-28-2007, 07:24 AM
Rangers brought this upon themselves. Just had to make those videos and post them hmmmmm

Legiax
06-28-2007, 08:06 AM
<p>Im a Dreadnaught Wizard... and keep swapping between General / Dread, i mainly solo.</p><p>Who said we cant solo? I'll tell you who said that, 90% of the Sorcerer community who cant play their toons. However, Rangers did need to be nerfed, I previously played a Zerker before swapping to my wizard, and was the first Master Zerker afaik, and rangers were [Removed for Content] if I could get close with sprint and a knockdown, however... against a good ranger I got wasted, in the wild, I stood no chance.</p><p>I would get auto hit for 700-800 a pop, now and then 1k+, be snared to the point where I cant even move, and sprint would only equal my run speed to like 0% in combat, I have NO ranged abilities at all.... and the ranger would be hidden away and have a nice spot picked out. </p><p>You have track... a potential 45 meter range auto attack for 1k on PLATE tanks, 2k+ on other classes, massive CA damage, snares, stuns, roots, stealth, safefall, poisons... need I go on. You compare yourself to a Wizzy.</p><p>Wizard dont get track, safe fall, chain armour, or a ranged auto attacked. We nuke for the same as a ranger roughly... without the huge auto attack and poison procs etc in between spell castings. We get ONE ability we can cast whilst moving, which is our Invisibility, which you cant cast whilst incombat. I nuke you for 4k... you hit me with auto attack costing 0 power for 2k... with no procs, with procs, your nearly equalling one of my nukes. Your evac cannot be interrupted... mine can.</p><p>Rangers should be powerful, but you should not get the best of all worlds as far as:</p><p>You have the highest damage output</p><p>You have track</p><p>You have better armour</p><p>Your the most power efficient DPS in the game</p><p>You have the best snare / control abilities outside of an enchanter.</p><p>GU36 brings you inline with everyone else, welcome to playing a class that is still amazing... but does not have a crutch to stand on anymore.</p>

Elephanton
06-28-2007, 09:31 AM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>You have the best snare / control abilities outside of an enchanter.</p></blockquote><p>Not any more after GU36, and we were highly dependant on snares to be able to deal "highest damage output". Now we cannot kite, thus we cannot DPS.</p><p>Our better armor is nothing, my friend has PVP specced warlock who has same mitigation as I do - I posted his screenshot before, take a look in the Manashield topic in this forum.</p><p>Now, if brig gets to me - I can only get around 10K of pure damage with my HP/miti, while he together with his new manashield is able to soak up to 25K of pure damage. So please stop your BS. You fail to see the whole picture, you only see and talk about strength of other classes - but don't even count their weaknesses (especially after GU36), weaknesses which make all strengths unusable. </p>

Legiax
06-28-2007, 09:38 AM
<p>My post was aimed at pre-GU36 rangers... justifying why you were balanced.</p><p>Learn to read and not let your [Removed for Content]speak for you.</p><p>What people forget, is a Sorcerer has to spec for that defensive ability, and loses a gigantic amount of DPS. The same as you have to spec for your crits or whatever. So really... we deserve to survive if we are speccing for it, end of debate on that subject tbh. I was not comparing ranger AA vs Sorcerer AA, i was comparing CLASS VS CLASS. Without AA, all of the above points I made are true to their arguments.</p>

Cyst
06-28-2007, 09:57 AM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>My post was aimed at pre-GU36 rangers... justifying why you were balanced.</p><p>Learn to read and not let your [I cannot control my vocabulary]speak for you.</p><p>What people forget, is a Sorcerer has to spec for that defensive ability, and loses a gigantic amount of DPS. The same as you have to spec for your crits or whatever. So really... we deserve to survive if we are speccing for it, end of debate on that subject tbh. I was not comparing ranger AA vs Sorcerer AA, i was comparing CLASS VS CLASS. Without AA, all of the above points I made are true to their arguments.</p></blockquote><p> We were not balanced. Balance would have been removing Sniper Shot and Enhance: Sprint AA. Then we could still get at range and do some damage.</p><p>Instead they cut Sniper Shot and Stealth Shot by over 50% of its damage and made it so that it is impossible for us to snare anyone longer than 2-3 seconds. Our root in PvP also got nerfed giving us an additional 2 seconds. So we can keep you at range for a whopping 4 seconds if you don't use an Arcane potion to cure it. Granted we could stun you for 3 seconds and pray to god you don't have stun immunity potions which make you immune for 10 seconds. On top of all this they removed all of the Rangers in-combat movement speed. ALL OF IT!</p><p>The only ranged combat a Ranger is going to see post patch is when they get the drop on you. Most of the time they'll be running around with their newly acquired out of combat speed of 68% harvesting, farming, et cetera while they wish they could at least fight a good fight but knowing their bow is useless and their melee is as weak as ever.</p><p>Imagine as a Wizard if you couldn't cast in melee range and your root was useless. That will be the Ranger post patch.</p><p>AND YOU CAN'T COMPARE CLASSES WITHOUT TAKING INTO CONSIDERATION ACHIEVMENTS!</p>

Legiax
06-28-2007, 10:48 AM
<cite>Demron wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>My post was aimed at pre-GU36 rangers... justifying why you were balanced.</p><p>Learn to read and not let your [I cannot control my vocabulary]speak for you.</p><p>What people forget, is a Sorcerer has to spec for that defensive ability, and loses a gigantic amount of DPS. The same as you have to spec for your crits or whatever. So really... we deserve to survive if we are speccing for it, end of debate on that subject tbh. I was not comparing ranger AA vs Sorcerer AA, i was comparing CLASS VS CLASS. Without AA, all of the above points I made are true to their arguments.</p></blockquote><p> We were not balanced. Balance would have been removing Sniper Shot and Enhance: Sprint AA. Then we could still get at range and do some damage.</p><p>Instead they cut Sniper Shot and Stealth Shot by over 50% of its damage and made it so that it is impossible for us to snare anyone longer than 2-3 seconds. Our root in PvP also got nerfed giving us an additional 2 seconds. So we can keep you at range for a whopping 4 seconds if you don't use an Arcane potion to cure it. Granted we could stun you for 3 seconds and pray to god you don't have stun immunity potions which make you immune for 10 seconds. On top of all this they removed all of the Rangers in-combat movement speed. ALL OF IT!</p><p>The only ranged combat a Ranger is going to see post patch is when they get the drop on you. Most of the time they'll be running around with their newly acquired out of combat speed of 68% harvesting, farming, et cetera while they wish they could at least fight a good fight but knowing their bow is useless and their melee is as weak as ever.</p><p>Imagine as a Wizard if you couldn't cast in melee range and your root was useless. That will be the Ranger post patch.</p><p>AND YOU CAN'T COMPARE CLASSES WITHOUT TAKING INTO CONSIDERATION ACHIEVMENTS!</p></blockquote><p>That was a big cry... have a tissue =p</p><p>Of course you can compare classes lol without considering AA lol, its easy.</p><p>My root is useless as it stands anyway, it breaks all the time and grants a huge immunity to root... yay. And with my spells being like a 4-5 second cast... i know your pain, as you can auto attack to interrupt me, despite me having over 47 EXTRA focus... suxor.</p><p>Hopefully this isnt as bad in GU36 though. </p>

frootloop
06-28-2007, 11:00 AM
<p>Rangers were panseys before and now they will probably be even more useless. Im sick and tired about rangers jumping you and if your not dead before they killed you its 1000000% sprint and hes gone. sometimes if you got em at like 5% health like my Inquisitor has a bunch of times hell be nice and let you stop and let him resist your [Removed for Content] root and keep runnin in circles in hopes for A) hell be out of combat and regened to full hp and power while your powerless or B) you give up and run away so he can pwn you from behind.</p><p> Im not saying rangers are OP or im whineing about my class or anything like that. Just commenting on how funny it is that you guys cant run away as well anymore, you all have had so much practice at it and now its all gone to waste <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. i guess its time for yall to suck it up and be sloughtered by under-estimated clases such as Inquisitors. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Either that or just roll in groups where the tank will out DPS you. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p>

Cyst
06-28-2007, 11:01 AM
<p>Narl</p><p>You shouldn't compare classes without taking into consideration AAs. Why? Because AAs are part of that characters development and everyone has, or should have 100 AAs at the end game. A Wizard/Warlock without Manashield are very weak, but with Manashield they're very powerful. But if you want to compare things on your terms, than you can paint any picture you want Narl. But if you want an honest comparison you compare everything.</p>

Cyst
06-28-2007, 11:02 AM
<cite>frootloop wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Rangers were panseys before and now they will probably be even more useless. Im sick and tired about rangers jumping you and if your not dead before they killed you its 1000000% sprint and hes gone. sometimes if you got em at like 5% health like my Inquisitor has a bunch of times hell be nice and let you stop and let him resist your [Removed for Content] root and keep runnin in circles in hopes for A) hell be out of combat and regened to full hp and power while your powerless or B) you give up and run away so he can pwn you from behind.</p><p> Im not saying rangers are OP or im whineing about my class or anything like that. Just commenting on how funny it is that you guys cant run away as well anymore, you all have had so much practice at it and now its all gone to waste <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. i guess its time for yall to suck it up and be sloughtered by under-estimated clases such as Inquisitors. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Either that or just roll in groups where the tank will out DPS you. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p></blockquote> Allow a Ranger to use his bow in melee and he wouldn't run away.

Cathalo
06-28-2007, 11:53 AM
<cite>Demron wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>frootloop wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Rangers were panseys before and now they will probably be even more useless. Im sick and tired about rangers jumping you and if your not dead before they killed you its 1000000% sprint and hes gone. sometimes if you got em at like 5% health like my Inquisitor has a bunch of times hell be nice and let you stop and let him resist your [Removed for Content] root and keep runnin in circles in hopes for A) hell be out of combat and regened to full hp and power while your powerless or B) you give up and run away so he can pwn you from behind.</p><p> Im not saying rangers are OP or im whineing about my class or anything like that. Just commenting on how funny it is that you guys cant run away as well anymore, you all have had so much practice at it and now its all gone to waste <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. i guess its time for yall to suck it up and be sloughtered by under-estimated clases such as Inquisitors. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Either that or just roll in groups where the tank will out DPS you. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p></blockquote> Allow a Ranger to use his bow in melee and he wouldn't run away.</blockquote><p> I think the nerf to the in combat run speed was sufficient enough for rangers myself, all of the others nerfs were completely unecessary.  I play a Wizard and I get killed alot by stealth classes, but that was something I knew would be a problem before rolling a cloth user.  </p><p>I just dont see how scouts are going to be viable now that warriors and some healer types will be on par for dps.</p><p>This is just another instance of incohesive strategy on SOE's part.  They listen to all of the people who come cry on these boards.  These cry babies think that everything in the game is based around t2 and t3 one on one PvP.  They dont take the time to learn how to play they're class.  Hell, most of these people probably cant even spell what class they are playing, let alone play the class.</p><p>It really pisses me off that SOE is putting these nerfs in because of a group of whiners that probably should never have rolled on a PvP server to begin with.  </p>

Cyst
06-28-2007, 11:56 AM
<cite>Cathalo wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Demron wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>frootloop wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Rangers were panseys before and now they will probably be even more useless. Im sick and tired about rangers jumping you and if your not dead before they killed you its 1000000% sprint and hes gone. sometimes if you got em at like 5% health like my Inquisitor has a bunch of times hell be nice and let you stop and let him resist your [Removed for Content] root and keep runnin in circles in hopes for A) hell be out of combat and regened to full hp and power while your powerless or B) you give up and run away so he can pwn you from behind.</p><p> Im not saying rangers are OP or im whineing about my class or anything like that. Just commenting on how funny it is that you guys cant run away as well anymore, you all have had so much practice at it and now its all gone to waste <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. i guess its time for yall to suck it up and be sloughtered by under-estimated clases such as Inquisitors. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Either that or just roll in groups where the tank will out DPS you. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p></blockquote> Allow a Ranger to use his bow in melee and he wouldn't run away.</blockquote><p> I think the nerf to the in combat run speed was sufficient enough for rangers myself, all of the others nerfs were completely unecessary.  I play a Wizard and I get killed alot by stealth classes, but that was something I knew would be a problem before rolling a cloth user.  </p><p>I just dont see how scouts are going to be viable now that warriors and some healer types will be on par for dps.</p><p>This is just another instance of incohesive strategy on SOE's part.  They listen to all of the people who come cry on these boards.  These cry babies think that everything in the game is based around t2 and t3 one on one PvP.  They dont take the time to learn how to play their class.  Hell, most of these people probably cant even spell what class they are playing, let alone play the class.</p><p>It really pisses me off that SOE is putting these nerfs in because of a group of whiners that probably should never have rolled on a PvP server to begin with.  </p></blockquote>With in-combat run speed it is hard for a Ranger to get at range to use his bow on a good player who uses things like Arcane Remedy Potions. Now without in-combat run speed it is going to be near impossible against players who use resources like I carry around all the time.

Cathalo
06-28-2007, 12:01 PM
<cite>Demron wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cathalo wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Demron wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>frootloop wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Rangers were panseys before and now they will probably be even more useless. Im sick and tired about rangers jumping you and if your not dead before they killed you its 1000000% sprint and hes gone. sometimes if you got em at like 5% health like my Inquisitor has a bunch of times hell be nice and let you stop and let him resist your [Removed for Content] root and keep runnin in circles in hopes for A) hell be out of combat and regened to full hp and power while your powerless or B) you give up and run away so he can pwn you from behind.</p><p> Im not saying rangers are OP or im whineing about my class or anything like that. Just commenting on how funny it is that you guys cant run away as well anymore, you all have had so much practice at it and now its all gone to waste <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. i guess its time for yall to suck it up and be sloughtered by under-estimated clases such as Inquisitors. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Either that or just roll in groups where the tank will out DPS you. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p></blockquote> Allow a Ranger to use his bow in melee and he wouldn't run away.</blockquote><p> I think the nerf to the in combat run speed was sufficient enough for rangers myself, all of the others nerfs were completely unecessary.  I play a Wizard and I get killed alot by stealth classes, but that was something I knew would be a problem before rolling a cloth user.  </p><p>I just dont see how scouts are going to be viable now that warriors and some healer types will be on par for dps.</p><p>This is just another instance of incohesive strategy on SOE's part.  They listen to all of the people who come cry on these boards.  These cry babies think that everything in the game is based around t2 and t3 one on one PvP.  They dont take the time to learn how to play their class.  Hell, most of these people probably cant even spell what class they are playing, let alone play the class.</p><p>It really pisses me off that SOE is putting these nerfs in because of a group of whiners that probably should never have rolled on a PvP server to begin with.  </p></blockquote>With in-combat run speed it is hard for a Ranger to get at range to use his bow on a good player who uses things like Arcane Remedy Potions. Now without in-combat run speed it is going to be near impossible against players who use resources like I carry around all the time. </blockquote><p>I hear ya.  Which is why they should have left the dps alone.  The way I think of it is that scouts are supposed to be mainly tough against squishy classes, and weaker against heavily armored foes.  These nerfs are going to make rangers weaker to pretty much every type of class.</p><p>Healers and Bards are going to be the new flavor of the month.  Just watch, everyone will be rolling one soon.  Then those classes will get nerfed, and then the chain continues. </p>

Magius789
06-28-2007, 12:58 PM
<cite>frootloop wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Rangers were panseys before and now they will probably be even more useless. Im sick and tired about rangers jumping you and if your not dead before they killed you <b>its 1000000% sprint and hes gone</b>. sometimes if you got em at like 5% health like my Inquisitor has a bunch of times hell be nice and let you stop and let him resist your [Removed for Content] root and keep runnin in circles in hopes for A) hell be out of combat and regened to full hp and power while your powerless or B) you give up and run away so he can pwn you from behind.</p><p> Im not saying rangers are OP or im whineing about my class or anything like that. Just commenting on how funny it is that you guys cant run away as well anymore, you all have had so much practice at it and now its all gone to waste <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. i guess its time for yall to suck it up and be sloughtered by under-estimated clases such as Inquisitors. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Either that or just roll in groups where the tank will out DPS you. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p></blockquote> Its comments like this that are stupid, baseless, and cause un needed nerfs.  We need RANGE on a target to attack it, now that might appear to you as running away but in most cases its inreasing distance on our target with snares while recast timers are back up.  Other than 2 ranged CA's most of our attacks are close to a min. recast.  What are we suppose to do, stand there and let you beat on us while we have no attacks.  And guess what?!?!  Now instead of SPRINTING away at 82% and draining my power I can have a 75% CONSTANT run speed with Jboots without using any of my power.  Good job getting that much needed nerf.  Now you'll never catch us because we'll never engange.  Which is exactly what will happen now unless they changed things from the last time I tested, but that is what my movement speed was....

Elephanton
06-28-2007, 01:09 PM
<cite>Demron wrote:</cite><blockquote><b>Allow a Ranger to use his bow in melee</b> and he wouldn't run away.</blockquote><p>QFE</p><p>SOE if you took away our ability to kite - at least give us ability to fight!</p><p>80% of our skills do not work in melee range. </p>

Bjerde
06-28-2007, 01:13 PM
Rangers suck toe to toe. There should have been a change in an aa line to have some attacks not be positional or something.

Elephanton
06-28-2007, 05:08 PM
<p>OK so GU is out: this whole thread was ignored. Not even a single post from anyone from SOE.</p><p>I think I don't want to be a customer of such a company any longer, because they basically just put a ball on their customers, enough is enough.</p>

Shinnar
06-28-2007, 05:41 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>Im a Dreadnaught Wizard... and keep swapping between General / Dread, i mainly solo.</p><p><b><i><u>Who said we cant solo? I'll tell you who said that, 90% of the Sorcerer community who cant play their toons</u></i></b>. However, Rangers did need to be nerfed, I previously played a Zerker before swapping to my wizard, and was the first Master Zerker afaik, and rangers were [Removed for Content] if I could get close with sprint and a knockdown, however... against a good ranger I got wasted, in the wild, I stood no chance.</p><p>I would get auto hit for 700-800 a pop, now and then 1k+, be snared to the point where I cant even move, and sprint would only equal my run speed to like 0% in combat, I have NO ranged abilities at all.... and the ranger would be hidden away and have a nice spot picked out. </p><p>You have track... a potential 45 meter range auto attack for 1k on PLATE tanks, 2k+ on other classes, massive CA damage, snares, stuns, roots, stealth, safefall, poisons... need I go on. You compare yourself to a Wizzy.</p><p>Wizard dont get track, safe fall, chain armour, or a ranged auto attacked. We nuke for the same as a ranger roughly... without the huge auto attack and poison procs etc in between spell castings. We get ONE ability we can cast whilst moving, which is our Invisibility, which you cant cast whilst incombat. I nuke you for 4k... you hit me with auto attack costing 0 power for 2k... with no procs, with procs, your nearly equalling one of my nukes. Your evac cannot be interrupted... mine can.</p><p>Rangers should be powerful, but you should not get the best of all worlds as far as:</p><p>You have the highest damage output</p><p>You have track</p><p>You have better armour</p><p>Your the most power efficient DPS in the game</p><p>You have the best snare / control abilities outside of an enchanter.</p><p>GU36 brings you inline with everyone else, welcome to playing a class that is still amazing... but does not have a crutch to stand on anymore.</p></blockquote><p>WOW, after 3 years finally some wizard, who is not noob and crier. <img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>I agree. I would only change that 90% to 99% <img src="/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p>