about DW weapons becoming 1H with GU37

[Dendro]

It's not clear to me how this is going to change things: From Test Update Notes: Tuesday, June 12th 2007: <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=366605" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=366605</a><i> <p>TEST SERVER ONLY - WEAPON USABILITY</p><ul><li>In early testing for GU37, weapon usability is being improved by removing the Dual Wield weapon designation. </li><li>All current Dual Wield weapons will become One Handed and gain the damage rating of a comparable one handed. </li><li>You will be able to equip most One Handed weapons in either your main or offhand. </li><li>In order to compensate for the increased damage to dual wielding, offhand delay is slowed by a small amount so that damage over time remains the same. </li><li>Again, this is being released extra-early to TEST SERVER ONLY and will not be going live with GU36</li></ul></i>Here is an example for T6 mastercrafted weapons 1H DR 47.4 (19 to 57/1.6) 2H DR 60.3 (34 to 102/2.3) DW DR 35.6 (14 to 43/1.6) so 2x35.6=71.2 I took the data from aITEM 1383098009 -2017230439:pristine imbued cobalt long sword/a aITEM -867036036 1683369322:pristine imbued cobalt claymore/a aITEM 1661421062 -1545609659:pristine imbued cobalt kukri/a So with no haste, dps buffs, double attack, crits, procs, poisons, or any other complications, 2H=1.27x1H and DW=1.50x1H.  Clearly, 1H damage should be lower than 2H or DW.  It's not clear to me why (other than to compensate for having to craft/buy/adventure for twice as many weapons) DW=1.18x2H but whatever. Now come this update, offhand weapon delay will be increased so that the DR is reduced by some factor r.  So where before you were doing 35.6 with the primary and 35.6 with the secondary, you will now be doing 47.4 with the primary and r x 47.4 with the secondary.  Is this the right interpretation of the above test update notes?  If the damage is supposed to remain the same we have 2 x 35.6 = 47.4 +r x 47.4 so r x 47.4 = 23.8 r = 0.5 In other words the secondary weapon's delay is going to have to be <i>doubled </i>to maintain the same overall dps.  That doesn't jibe with "<i>offhand delay is slowed by a small amount.</i>" It also means that the secondary weapon is going to be hitting much less often than the primary, right?  Which has implications if you normally use say one piercing and one slashing weapon.

[Couching]

<cite>Dendro wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's not clear to me how this is going to change things: From Test Update Notes: Tuesday, June 12th 2007: <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=366605" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=366605</a><i> <p>TEST SERVER ONLY - WEAPON USABILITY</p><ul><li>In early testing for GU37, weapon usability is being improved by removing the Dual Wield weapon designation. </li><li>All current Dual Wield weapons will become One Handed and gain the damage rating of a comparable one handed. </li><li>You will be able to equip most One Handed weapons in either your main or offhand. </li><li>In order to compensate for the increased damage to dual wielding, offhand delay is slowed by a small amount so that damage over time remains the same. </li><li>Again, this is being released extra-early to TEST SERVER ONLY and will not be going live with GU36</li></ul></i>Here is an example for T6 mastercrafted weapons 1H DR 47.4 (19 to 57/1.6) 2H DR 60.3 (34 to 102/2.3) DW DR 35.6 (14 to 43/1.6) so 2x35.6=71.2 I took the data from aITEM 1383098009 -2017230439:pristine imbued cobalt long sword/a aITEM -867036036 1683369322:pristine imbued cobalt claymore/a aITEM 1661421062 -1545609659:pristine imbued cobalt kukri/a So with no haste, dps buffs, double attack, crits, procs, poisons, or any other complications, 2H=1.27x1H and DW=1.50x1H.  Clearly, 1H damage should be lower than 2H or DW.  It's not clear to me why (other than to compensate for having to craft/buy/adventure for twice as many weapons) DW=1.18x2H but whatever. Now come this update, offhand weapon delay will be increased so that the DR is reduced by some factor r.  So where before you were doing 35.6 with the primary and 35.6 with the secondary, you will now be doing 47.4 with the primary and r x 47.4 with the secondary.  Is this the right interpretation of the above test update notes?  If the damage is supposed to remain the same we have 2 x 35.6 = 47.4 +r x 47.4 so r x 47.4 = 23.8 r = 0.5 In other words the secondary weapon's delay is going to have to be <i>doubled </i>to maintain the same overall dps.  That doesn't jibe with "<i>offhand delay is slowed by a small amount.</i>" It also means that the secondary weapon is going to be hitting much less often than the primary, right?  Which has implications if you normally use say one piercing and one slashing weapon. </blockquote>It might be that 1h on off hand will be reduced to DW stats rather than over all main hand+off hand. For the same example you made, we will get 47.4+35.6 rather than 47.4+23.8. Otherwise, this change is really stupid and meaningless.

[Timaarit]

IMO this change will effectively mean that all double attacks from AA's will be intended for main hand weapon. Thus for balance, they will change all dual wielders to 1H weapons. If that really happens, it would be a good change if they removed the rest of the restrictions from the DA lines. In the end this would mean that rogues would regain a bit more DPS by being able to equip a DW on the off hand and warriors as well by being able to use off hand weapon when DPSing. For classes like my monk, it would decrease my DPS from what brawlers are supposed to get with the next update. For classes that can DW but dont have DA, it will do nothing as it wont do anything to classes that cant DW. But then there will be the issue of 2-handed weapons. If nothing is done to those, they will be very much obsolete in the future.

[Dendro]

I just did a quick check on Test.  It appears that the DW->1H conversion is done by multiplying the damage min and max by 1.33 with no change in delay, which agrees with my example.  When a DW class uses two of these weapons, the mouseover shows no difference from equipping just one in the primary slot, but /weaponstats shows that the delay has been multiplied by a factor of something like 1.33.  Curiously, the primary and ranged weapons are also silently slowed in this way when a weapon is equipped in the secondary slot. pre-GU37 DW weapon with 35.6 DR gets converted to 1H with DR 1.33 x 35.6 = 47.3 equip one in primary slot, it has that DR; equip one in primary and another in secondary and the delay is increased by 1.33 so total damage is reduced back to 35.6.  The net effect if you start with two DW weapons is 35.6 + 35.6 --> 35.6 + 35.6 However the damage and delay are both increased by 1.33, so the weapons become slower and harder hitting with the same DR. This behavior is not the way it is described in the notes, and I assume the slowing of the ranged weapon is just a bug that will be corrected quickly.

[Hakthaf]

<p>Would it be possible for someone to post a screen of some of the fable dual wields post conversion? Stuff like dirk of negativity, GDoH, and other maybe some other commonly used fable, curious to see what some look like post conversion.</p>

[Necodem]

<a href="http://www.eq2flames.com/showthread.php?t=7099" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.eq2flames.com/showthread.php?t=7099</a>

[EtoilePirate]

<cite>Hakthaf wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Would it be possible for someone to post a screen of some of the fable dual wields post conversion? Stuff like dirk of negativity, GDoH, and other maybe some other commonly used fable, curious to see what some look like post conversion.</p></blockquote> Just to be abundantly clear with this screenshot, this was taken on TEST on 13 June and as such is subject to change! <img src="http://etoilepb.com/eq2/daggers.jpg" border="0">

[Hakthaf]

Holy crap dirk of negativity is hot, finally upped its regen above crap, hope the regen actually stays up, even if lowered from that, anything above 3 is nice.

[Cusashorn]

Can you post a before and after comparison shot of the dirk of negativity?

[EtoilePirate]

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Can you post a before and after comparison shot of the dirk of negativity?</blockquote> I don't have a Before screenshot, but any shot of it from Live should do the trick. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Gorth]

<p>Here's a shot of a few misc weaps from Test.. =)</p><p><img src="http://members.cox.net/jwarren73/Weapstats.jpg" border="0"></p>

[kolbyj12]

Can anyone or dose anyone have a sreen shot of what a Windrazor looks like with the new weapon changes?