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Aeralik
06-08-2007, 01:39 AM
In GU 36, PvP will be receiving some changes aimed at making player vs player combat somewhat more equitable, especially at the higher levels where fights are frequently far too short and entirely predetermined based solely on your class. We've been testing some new class-by-class, level-by-level fine tuning aimed specifically at resolving issues that are predominant at the high end    In general the higher damage classes like predators, rogues, sorcerers, and summoners will see the most notable reduction in high level PvP damage. Brawlers and druids will be in the middle while bards and the remaining priests and fighters will see the smallest reduction.  Similar changes have been made to resists at the higher levels, which means spells should be more likely to land than they have been in the past.  In addition , a number of classes have had their spells' PvP effects tweaked which you can read about below. Level locking has also been a hot topic on the forums over the past few months.  It's also a very tricky subject to handle.  Gaining equipment and better quality spells is something we encourage players to do and this is something everyone should still strive to do.  Achievements on the other hand can be easily obtained and quickly add to the power of your character.  The extreme cases of this, where people end up with an inordinately large number of achievements for their level, yields them to have an unbeatably strong advantage in PvP combat.  In order to mitigate the effects this, characters will be limited to spending 1.5 times their current level within the achievement trees.  You can still gain points above this limit and spend them later on as you level.  Once these changes go live, all characters who are over the new Achievement Per Level cap will be given the opportunity to respec their points on their first login. The last major change is to the in-combat speed buffs.  These are great skills for PvE when things go wrong.  In PvP though, these skills gave certain classes an easy way to escape any fight that is in progress, much like escape skills did in the past.  Bards will continue to have their in-combat speed enhancements as do any characters that gain them as a racial benefit.  Otherwise these buffs and abilities will suspend while engaged in PvP combat.  Below is a list of the other PvP-Only balance changes that have been made.  Feedback on the upcoming changes is welcome.  However, please try the changes out on the test pvp server before jumping to conclusions on some of the topics.  If you haven't already, you can copy your character using the /testcopy command so that your character arrives there before the changes go to test next week. <b>Please note - The following changes occur in PvP combat only.  PvE functionality of these items and abilities, even on PvP servers, remains as they are today.</b> <b>General</b> <ul><li>Damage was reduced at the higher levels based on class. Rogues, predators, sorcerers and summoners had the greatest reduction.  Druids, enchanters and brawlers fall in the middle while the others had lower amounts of damage reduction.  The goal being to introduce more strategy in PvP at the high end.</li><li>In combat run speeds will now suspend during PvP cmbat, except for the bard achievement which grants in-combat run speed to Selo's.</li><li>XP debt has been removed from pvp servers.</li><li>Added reuse timers to cures when used in a pvp fight</li><li>Reduced heal amounts slightly to be in line with the damage decreases. </li></ul> <b>Assassin</b> <ul><li>Reduced the duration of the root effect for the Freezing Strike line</li><li>Reduced the damage of Assassinate and Decapitate slightly.</li></ul> <b>Brigand</b> <ul><li>Double up should only work on spells cast in the last second instead of last 2 seconds.</li><li>Lowered the debuff amount on Devitalize and Dispatch      </li><li>Reduced the stun duration on the Low Blow line.</li></ul> <b>Bruiser</b> <ul><li>Reduced the duration of Drag </li></ul> <b>Coercer</b> <ul><li>Lowered the damage done by Cataclysmic mind and its associated spells.</li></ul> <b>Fury</b> <ul><li>Reduced the duration of the root line</li></ul> <b>Monk</b> <ul><li>The Evade achievement should now cause your target to lose its target like scout evade skills do.</li></ul> <b>Ranger</b> <ul><li>The Hunter's Instinct line will now buff out of combat speed rather than in combat speed.</li><li>Reduced the duration and range of Hook Arrow </li><li>Reduced the root duration of the Lung line</li><li>Reduced the snare duration on the Leg Shot line.</li><li>Reduced the damage done by the Sniper Shot line slightly</li><li>Reduced the damage of Rain of Arrows slightly </li></ul> <b>Necromancer</b> <ul><li>Lowered the duration of control effects on the fighter pet.</li></ul> <b>Shadowknight</b> <ul><li>Reduced the damage to the Harm Touch line.</li></ul> <b>Swashbuckler</b> <ul><li>Lowered the damage on Inspired Daring</li><li>Lowered the damage to En Garde.  It will also now use mitigation and can be dodged, blocked, parried and deflected in PvP combat.</li></ul> <b>Warden</b> <ul><li>Reduced the duration of Root and Snare lines.</li></ul> <b>Wizard</b> <ul><li>Reduced the damage of Ice Comet slightly </li><li>Reduced the damage of Fusion</li></ul><b> </b> <b>Items</b> <ul><li>Reduced the damage and heal on the Signet of Light From Darkness.</li><li>Lowered the Malicious Assault bonus on the Brigand Interloper's Coat.</li><li>The effect on the Belt of Gateways has been changed from 100% riposte to 100% parry. </li></ul>

Josgar
06-08-2007, 02:13 AM
interesting! I dont know alot aobut PVP i think I have one character around level 30ish. what does everything think?

The_Real_Ohno
06-08-2007, 02:22 AM
<p>Id really like to know what your over all goals are for EQ2 PvP Aeralik.  Every single GU PvP gets hit with the nerf bat, and the last few updates have been pretty big ones imo.  Some changes are good, but I mean u are nerfin some of the most important stuff to some classes ie roots/snares.  Some classes need these to work the duration to do what the class is soppose to.  U can already cure them, everyone can do it.  I just dont see how reducing root/snare durations is gonna make a fight longer.</p><p>BTW why arnt Healers heals gettin toned down in PvP combat, seems Druids will be able to out heal anyones dmg now.</p><p>Also these Nerfs seem to be focused on Solo PvP, cause in grp/raid alot of this isnt really an issue, if at all any.  U dont get 1-2 Shotted from the heavy hitters.</p><p>I dont know, PvP seemed fine to me.  I am now really startin to see the carebear pvp thing ppl been talkin about... <img src="/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Josgar
06-08-2007, 02:25 AM
My BIGGEST problem is that people will stealth up behind me, poison me w/ blurred vision and basically stunned me. Then its like 2 hits and im dead. It isnt very fun.

EatThisShoe
06-08-2007, 02:30 AM
I think this could be a really big change. Those of you who are concerned that your classes are going to become gimped should probably log onto the test server and find out before this goes live. This update doesn't say how much a lot of these damage reductions are, and that is very important. A 5% decrease in one or two skills shouldn't break any class, but a 30% decrease might, depending on the skill.

vejai
06-08-2007, 02:32 AM
<p>ouch, both my chars are getting a beat down.</p><p>Wardens will be even more unstopable now with the damage reductions across the board. </p><p>vejai/etnix</p>

EatThisShoe
06-08-2007, 02:39 AM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>ouch, both my chars are getting a beat down.</p><p>Wardens will be even more unstopable now with the damage reductions across the board. </p><p>vejai/etnix</p></blockquote>That's probably my biggest concern. DPS nerfs translate into healer buffs. Is this intentional? I dunno, most people feel druids are already overpowered.

Darenlok
06-08-2007, 02:47 AM
So now I can use Cheetah to run fast out of combat only?!? amazing...

Lowell_high
06-08-2007, 02:55 AM
Where were these changes months ago?  Its about time.  I'm sure Wardens and other Priests will be hard to kill as I'm sure they should intended to be 1v1, different story group v group though.  Looking forwarded to even more nerfs for everyone imo, we need it. 

Bawang
06-08-2007, 03:00 AM
<p>Ok.  I have a 70 Wiz and a 70 Fury and a whole bunch of toons in their 40s and 50s.  It seems all of my chars will be hit hard.  But you know what? I'm happy that they're at least addressing this issue.  There's no guarantee that what they're planning is going to solve anything because, as they say, the devil is in the details and the post was short on details.  But seriously, PvP is badly unbalanced in favor of the scouts in EQ2 and it's about time they did something about it.</p><p>The PvP system we've had so far was a legacy of the PvE setup, which was pretty much left untouched, thus producing the huge imbalances we have been clamoring about for so long.  It's high time that this be looked into and some fine tuning be done to correct this problem because it has festered for too long.</p><p> It's probably scary because we've invested so much time gearing up our toons to play the game as we found it.  It looks like we're getting a whole new ballgame and I'm sure many will cry crivers opposing this change.  But I for one am glad they they've got the cojones to tackle this and not flinch when the outcry comes.   </p><p>Let's play ball!</p><p>Edit: It occurs to me that another reason this will be good, as alluded to in the OP, is that EQ2 fights are simply too short.  I find when a fight lasts longer you seem to enjoy the victory that much more.  Reducing the damage will inevitably lengthen fights and that's something I'm looking forward to.</p>

Darlion
06-08-2007, 03:01 AM
<p>Great stuff... cept for one thing. DO NOT REDUCE THE REUSE ON THE [Removed for Content] BELT! I don't care if it's parry now, that is a huge buff. Please do not do that. Even for a raiding perspective (I assume the reuse is pve and pvp since you can't change that) why do you want monks now? All scouts can tsunami every 3rd fight.</p>

Novusod
06-08-2007, 03:05 AM
<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>Level locking has also been a hot topic on the forums over the past few months.  It's also a very tricky subject to handle.  <span style="color: #cc0000">Gaining equipment and better quality spells is something we encourage players to do and this is something everyone should still strive to do.  </span> Achievements on the other hand can be easily obtained and quickly add to the power of your character.  The extreme cases of this, where people end up with an inordinately large number of achievements for their level, yields them to have an unbeatably strong advantage in PvP combat.  <span style="color: #cc0000">In order to mitigate the effects this, characters will be limited to spending 1.5 times their current level within the achievement trees.</span>  You can still gain points above this limit and spend them later on as you level.  Once these changes go live, all characters who are over the new Achievement Per Level cap will be given the opportunity to respec their points on their first login. </blockquote>So all those level 14 twinks will be able to keep all their twink equipment and have a maximum for 21aa. Most twinks at 14 only have about 15 or 16aa anyway. In T3 PvP it is rare to find people with more than 30aa at lvl 20 or 45aa at lvl30. What this does affect is T4 PvP where I have seen a lot of charactors with 60+ aa in the mid 30s. My lvl36 warden with 61aa will be capped at 54aa and mr battlemage here with 65aa at lvl38 will be capped at 57aa. This does nothing to stop low level noob bashing and punishes the wrong people in T4 and T5 who worked hard to better themselves in a highly competitive tier which I have yet to here one complaint about. Please consider the root cause to noob ganking in EQ2 PvP. It is done because it is highly rewarding in the form of uber factional gear. I know because I have done it myself with 3 active twinks that all started off by ganking noobs by the score full. I agree that it is wrong because it is destroying the population of these servers. Is what needs to be done is alternative ways need to be provided other than ganking noobs for faction. I suggest a few PvP based writs and quests that give faction in T2 towards the first peice of gear at lvl20. These quests/writs can be something simple like spy on the enemy without getting killed for 500 faction or go slay a slayer for 1500 faction. Tier 2 PvP should be the easiest for a new player to get into but in reality it is the hardest and it is slowly ruining the game.

Kru
06-08-2007, 03:11 AM
<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote><ul><li>The effect on the Belt of Gateways has been changed from 100% riposte to 100% parry.  Additionally, its reuse has been reduced from one hour to 10 minutes.</li></ul> </blockquote> This one makes no sense whatsoever.  Some of the nerfs are bad enough, but lowering the reuse on the PVP belt from 1 hour to 10 minutes?  Most people in PVP think the belt should be removed altogether, and you're making it possible to use the belt 6 times more often?!  How ridiculous is that?  Who cares if it's parry instead of riposte, it's still an "I win" button, and by making it useable 6 times more often than it is now is a complete atrocity.

Qanil
06-08-2007, 03:13 AM
I agree with Kruhl.  From what is being described it's a 10 minute tsunami for scouts.  why?  Now it'll be even more powerful than before?

Animosity
06-08-2007, 03:16 AM
<--- Inc Swashbuckler, if those nerf go threw will make brigands worthless in a group on group or any situation.

Kru
06-08-2007, 03:25 AM
<------ Inc MONK.  Very bad changes.  When I fight Berserkers and Monks now, they beat me more often than I beat them.  They are really powerful against Brigands.  After this patch, since Monks are getting an upgrade, and Berserkers aren't being touched at all, it won't even be a competition anymore.  Might as well just run away as soon as I see either of these classes now.  GG SOE.

Kru
06-08-2007, 03:31 AM
Let's see.  When EoF came out, Brigands were nerfed 9 different ways, literally.  Swashbucklers were nerfed once.  Literally.  And this patch we STILL get more nerfs than Swashbucklers?  How [I cannot control my vocabulary] is that?  Swashbucklers have always been able to own Brigands- they should be getting more nerfs than we are.  Totally tally between EoF nerfs and this nerf? : Swashbuckler- 3 nerfs Brigand- 12 nerfs Not to mention double up now becomes "single up" if you don't spec down AGI.  Might as well just get rid of the skill altogether.

Aeralik
06-08-2007, 03:38 AM
Swashbucklers have a PvE change that should have some impact on PvP as well( yes pve is affecting pvp! ).  Some of their skills were proccing on the second double attack which is now fixed.  It's not pvp specific so it wasn't included here but that is something you will see in the full gu 36 test notes. In regards to druids they do have some of the larger damage reductions from a class point of view.  Just because they are lacking bullet points doesnt mean they have not been changed.  Their numbers are subject to change as well based off Test PvP feedback so make sure you get your characters copied over and then post your comments or use /feedback.

Ibunubi
06-08-2007, 03:44 AM
<p>One thing I'll begin to suggest, especially for healers, is adding a recast time to healer cures in PvP combat, the single targets ones mostly.</p>

Groma
06-08-2007, 03:47 AM
All i have to say is that outright spell resists better be GREATLY reduced, because our damage is horrible as is in pvp, if you reduce it and it still gets resisted i think i will be throwing in the towel.  Mages have been dominated in T7 pvp since launch, with the exception of a couple weeks right after EoF, and from the looks of it this will only make it worse. One thing, when it comes to pvp does SOE really care about exiles?  Will a dev at least comment on whether we are going to get some pvp love(gear, etc.) or not?I mean, if its never going to happen at least say so, then we can quit griping about it, but we are just chuggin along hoping that someone will wake up and realize we make up a decent chunk of the T7 pvp population and when it comes to PvP we are completely ignored. That belt of gateways change just gave every Q and FP scout an "I Win" button vs exile melee classes every 10 minutes, instead of the 60minutes it was before.

Animosity
06-08-2007, 03:49 AM
   Wondering what's bringing these chagnes to the brigand, our dps in a group on group situation is usualyl around 400-500 less than any good swashbuckler due to ae's an cooldowns even with nerfs, brigands have debuffs that even in a group situation are not much of a help if even at all. We have alittle burst dps with the double up, so now our debuffs are even worse an our burst dps is nothing, Why even have a brig along in a group situation imo.     I pvp loads an the changes are from what im reading unless alot of changes that arent seen by the naked eye, our class will be very hurt. An thats coming from what i play daily, an anyone who doesnt play a brigand or know exactly how to play a good brigand in any situation has no room to talk, this is just coming from what ive seen.

Badaxe Ba
06-08-2007, 03:56 AM
<b>Ranger</b> <ul><li>The Hunter's Instinct line will now buff out of combat speed rather than in combat speed. </li><li><span style="color: #0033ff">Nerfing the AA line, thereby resulting in wasted points.</span></li><li>Reduced the duration and range of Hook Arrow</li><li><span style="color: #0033ff">Never used or had, no comment</span> </li><li>Reduced the root duration of the Lung line </li><li><span style="color: #0033ff">It lasts how long now?  And you want to shorten it more?</span></li><li>Reduced the snare duration on the Leg Shot line. </li><li><span style="color: #0066ff">Thanks for letting me waste my hard earned coin for nothing upgrading this to try and keep <b><u>FURIES</u></b> from either running away or running me down.</span></li><li>Reduced the damage done by the Sniper Shot line.</li><li><span style="color: #0033ff">Have any of you been reading posts by rangers at all?  Or have you just been paying attention to all the cryers and whiners and moaners!  Its on a fifteen minute timer!  Even if a ranger chooses the str AA line, it only reduces it to 10 minutes!</span></li></ul><p><span style="color: #0033ff">Are we going to get higher mitigation in eschange for this?  How about giving us more damage to our melee CA's!  Or let us use our ranged CA's while moving!  Can we get a heal or two or let us wear plate armor!</span></p><p><span style="color: #0033ff">Its always take and take! </span></p><p><span style="color: #0033ff">And don't tell me this has been tested, I've logged onto the test server with this 70 ranger more than once and have only seen 1 freeporter the whole time.  </span></p><p><span style="color: #0033ff">Sweeping changes, in order to make PVP last longer, is going to make it go away for some classes.  Unless the result you are looking for is more time being dead.</span></p>

Groma
06-08-2007, 04:00 AM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><b>Ranger</b> <ul><li>The Hunter's Instinct line will now buff out of combat speed rather than in combat speed. </li><li><span style="color: #0033ff">Nerfing the AA line, thereby resulting in wasted points.</span></li><li>Reduced the duration and range of Hook Arrow</li><li><span style="color: #0033ff">Never used or had, no comment</span> </li><li>Reduced the root duration of the Lung line </li><li><span style="color: #0033ff">It lasts how long now?  And you want to shorten it more?</span></li><li>Reduced the snare duration on the Leg Shot line. </li><li><span style="color: #0066ff">Thanks for letting me waste my hard earned coin for nothing upgrading this to try and keep <b><u>FURIES</u></b> from either running away or running me down.</span></li><li>Reduced the damage done by the Sniper Shot line.</li><li><span style="color: #0033ff">Have any of you been reading posts by rangers at all?  Or have you just been paying attention to all the cryers and whiners and moaners!  Its on a fifteen minute timer!  Even if a ranger chooses the str AA line, it only reduces it to 10 minutes!</span></li></ul><p><span style="color: #0033ff">Are we going to get higher mitigation in eschange for this?  How about giving us more damage to our melee CA's!  Or let us use our ranged CA's while moving!  Can we get a heal or two or let us wear plate armor!</span></p><p><span style="color: #0033ff">Its always take and take! </span></p><p><span style="color: #0033ff">And don't tell me this has been tested, I've logged onto the test server with this 70 ranger more than once and have only seen 1 freeporter the whole time.  </span></p><p><span style="color: #0033ff">Sweeping changes, in order to make PVP last longer, is going to make it go away for some classes.  Unless the result you are looking for is more time being dead.</span></p></blockquote>I certainly understand your frustration, because i feel the same way about being a mage.  With that said, we should probably see and test how bad all damage has been nerfed across the board.  The problem glaring at me now is that druids will be impossible to kill 1 on 1.  The way it is now, i can kill any druid if EVERY spell i cast lands, one untimely resist and i start breaking my spine trying to kiss my [Removed for Content] goodbye.  Reduce our damage and leave their heals the same and its game over for anyone fighting a druid 1 on 1.

UGAdawg
06-08-2007, 04:04 AM
<cite>Kruhl wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote><ul><li>The effect on the Belt of Gateways has been changed from 100% riposte to 100% parry.  Additionally, its reuse has been reduced from one hour to 10 minutes.</li></ul> </blockquote> This one makes no sense whatsoever.  Some of the nerfs are bad enough, but lowering the reuse on the PVP belt from 1 hour to 10 minutes?  Most people in PVP think the belt should be removed altogether, and you're making it possible to use the belt 6 times more often?!  How ridiculous is that?  Who cares if it's parry instead of riposte, it's still an "I win" button, and by making it useable 6 times more often than it is now is a complete atrocity. </blockquote>No kidding. Way to go SOE.. Nerf some classes, and make the one item that is absolutely overpowered even worse. Here's an idea, create a level 70 of some type, throw on a pvp belt with 10 minute timer, put on some "uber" mastercrafted [Removed for Content], and see how many people you can kill now. Way to go.

stryker268
06-08-2007, 04:05 AM
<p>Belt of Getaways every 10 mins?  That's insane!!  Why would you give scouts a 10min easy button?  </p><p>Hehe, guess I'm just mad that I'm exile and can't get it too.  </p><p>But honestly, this is just a huge advantage that is being given to a class that already has some pretty huge ones.  Tier 1 dps and the ability to parry incoming attacks for 10secs.  Whoever thought this up sure must play a scout.  Oh yeah, they almost always do, don't they?</p>

Badaxe Ba
06-08-2007, 04:07 AM
<cite>stryker268 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Belt of Getaways every 10 mins?  That's insane!!  Why would you give <strike>scouts</strike> swashbuckler a 10min easy button?  </p><p>Hehe, guess I'm just mad that I'm exile and can't get it too.  </p><p>But honestly, this is just a huge advantage that is being given to a class that already has some pretty huge ones.  Tier 1 dps and the ability to parry incoming attacks for 10secs.  Whoever thought this up sure must play a <strike>scout</strike> swashbuckler.  Oh yeah, they almost always do, don't they?</p></blockquote><p>FIXED </p><p>The more I think about these changes, the more I come to the conclusion that this is just an underhanded back door attempt to implement the 40% cap  on damage.</p><p>This has a significant chance of making a majority of healers invincible in pvp, because nowhere did I read that pvp heals are going to be reduced.</p><p>Also, no mention whatsoever of a fury's pact of cheetah being reduced was mentioned either.  since this is a group buff as well, anyone with a fury will now be able to run circles around anyone without a fury.  Escaping a superior force with a fury also becomes out of the question.</p>

Overwhelmed
06-08-2007, 04:18 AM
I hope the belt of gateways duration of 10 minutes is some sort of typo. This will result in every single melee exile, or furthermore q/fp without enough faction to get the belt, to never, ever kill someone with the belt. Not only does it imbalance the game further towards scouts (who don't need any help), it reduces the skill needed in pvp greatly. The only "strategy" involved in belting is knowing when to click your <b>winner is me</b> button. Another imbalance that this change creates is a dynamic of brig/swash dominance over every other melee class, most notably predators. A belt is a belt regardless, parrying every CA whether it be on a 10 minute timer or a 30 second timer, and when my class-defining skill is absorbed the same way a 30 second recast CA is absorbed, melee pvp becomes a joke. This doesn't even address the base issue. The problem with the belt is not whether it ripostes or parries, or even its timer. The problem is having an item in game available only to city-aligned wherein you have 10 seconds of complete melee immunity. Nerf tinkering mem wipes because they overlap with a coercer spell? How about a pertinent change, say, changing the belt to a deaggro because monks get tsunami. Please stick to a single line of logic sony. Overwhelm 70 Assassin of Vox Reckoning (Exiled)

XeroXs84
06-08-2007, 04:19 AM
Interesting changes, I personally wouldnt moan about them as long as I didnt test it.. of course it sounds bad that the damage is reduced.. but honestly, the damage always was way too high, fights usually lasted like 3 seconds in t7 pvp... with overall dps decrease this should help alot. The belt change however, is very weird... i still think a scout shouldnt get that item at all... give it to mages imho! The incombat runspeed change is nice.. as far as i see this, this means rangers will still have the ability to get in range with ppl (using their sprint).. not sure why they reducing lunge tho, its soo short already anyway I fully agree tho with the other ppl in one point: U cant seriously reduce dmg of all classes but let the healing stay on the same level.... this will make all healers unkillable, and in most situations (group-group) u will just end up with everyone beeing OOP... this wont only make druids even stronger, it will also make mystics and even templars unkillable

DI2AG
06-08-2007, 04:26 AM
I must ask, how much thought was put into these changes? do any of you devs actually try the pvp changes before thinking "yeah this is a great idea!"... The brig changes are ridiculous...so you've taken away our debuffs and our only form of burst dps in double up? we don't have the sustained single target dps or ae dps like a swashy and alot of our stuff is positional. Our debuffs aren't even substantially higher than other classes to even notice it being our prime ability and with how fast cures are with AA lines and what not, i don't see how we can even achieve a damage output which would keep us up with the other meelee classes in dps. Summary: Change to Double Up: The trait of our class that makes us competitive against other scout classes in pvp as well as burning down healers such as wardens... great, i feel so balanced now! Change to Dispatch and Devitalize: OK... so brigands are a debuff utility class? what are you going to nerf these down to? less than the AE debuff a dirge or SK can cast? or the debuff an assassin or swashy can do from frontal quarters where as all of ours are behind and flanking only? Change to Deceitful Blow: Are we going to change this so it is equal to cheapshot? woot!! that will make it so much easier for us to hit people in pvp because you know... only more than half our skills are behind and flanking only! I think these changes will narrow that gap between the players which know their class inside out, and the people that mashes buttons... and it will probably completely destroy solo pvp since others will fly in before u even have the chance to kill em lol, pvp existing only in kos FTL! if these changes go ahead i for see a decline in the population of nagafen, we'll just have to wait and see what happens i guess

Novusod
06-08-2007, 04:26 AM
<cite>Overwhelmed wrote:</cite><blockquote>Nerf tinkering mem wipes because they overlap with a coercer spell? How about a pertinent change, say, changing the belt to a deaggro because monks get tsunami. Please stick to a single line of logic sony. Overwhelm 70 Assassin of Vox Reckoning (Exiled) </blockquote>To clarify tinkering mem wipes were nerfed because PvE raiders were exploiting the item in certain high end raids not because of anything in PvP.

Broccoliswo
06-08-2007, 04:37 AM
Grats devs, you're making every class completely awful. Do any of you even PvP? You are turning a game in which classes had class defining skills that made them unique and powerful in various ways into a game in which everyone is [Removed for Content] and the same. If you continue down that path, you are just going to lose your playerbase, honestly. Nerfing all these classes makes for longer fights in which more people can exploit the no-zoning change and zone others into a fight while others are engaged and unable to get away. Also, those who are complaining about the PvP belt are exiles who willingly and knowingly gave up such rewards, hence their opinion should not matter.

Kru
06-08-2007, 04:48 AM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>Grats devs, you're making every class completely awful. Do any of you even PvP? You are turning a game in which classes had class defining skills that made them unique and powerful in various ways into a game in which everyone is [Removed for Content] and the same. If you continue down that path, you are just going to lose your playerbase, honestly. Nerfing all these classes makes for longer fights in which more people can exploit the no-zoning change and zone others into a fight while others are engaged and unable to get away. Also, those who are complaining about the PvP belt are exiles who willingly and knowingly gave up such rewards, hence their opinion should not matter. </blockquote> For the record, I've been complaining about the PVP belt long before I was ever exiled.  It needs to be taken out of the game- not made 6 times better!

Broccoliswo
06-08-2007, 04:55 AM
Not like the belt is even going to matter anyways, if en garde is being changed. I don't really use it much but its annoying seeing exilied players whining about PvP rewards all the time when they willingly gave them up. You wanted easy mode raiding and got it, as well as all the functi9ons of a city that weren't there originally, so quit complaining about pvp rewards for factioned players tbh.

Amphibia
06-08-2007, 04:59 AM
Well, it sure is a good thing we can see the druids' buffs and get the hell away from them in solo PvP.... And poor wizards.... how much was their damage redused? I don't have one myself, so I cannot test it. But I really hope it's at least just a reduction and not some silly 40% rule, which also makes spell upgrading useless. The AA nerf on lower levels was probably a good thing though, and well thought out. Good thing we can still earn them, just not distribute everything right away. This should even the playfield there a little.

N3xus0n3
06-08-2007, 05:00 AM
<p>Grats, Devs. These changes are long overdue and will hopefully bring some balance to what is essentially a scout vs scout game. I applaud your choices and can see in the long run how they will greatly help to make PVP a far more interesting experience for everyone involved. Even though people are shouting NERF NERF, they seem to be missing the point that this is more of a rebalance aimed at making PVP more enjoyable and challenging all round.</p><p>/cheer.</p><p> Oh, and as for the comment on the Riposte belt, methinks some people ought to learn the difference between riposte and parry. What the devs are doing does in no way a, make the item useless. b, keep it as overpowered as it was, once again this is a well thought out decision.</p>

Broccoliswo
06-08-2007, 05:05 AM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><--- Inc Swashbuckler, if those nerf go threw will make brigands worthless in a group on group or any situation. </blockquote>Don't bother Nightmares, swash gets the nerf bat too. <3 And Darathar guy, I don't see how you have any PvP knowledge to be making such a statement as the server you came from has about 4 people on it and I'm sure 2-3 afk in town most of the day. Very long fights (In group or solo PvP) lead to people just jumping in and whatnot, especially with the changes to zoning and evacs. I guess the devs wanted "skill based" PvP. Guess what? Bringing higher numbers to compensate for your nerfs isn't skill. It's pathetic.

Darkor
06-08-2007, 05:08 AM
<p>Hello Everyone,</p><p> to introduce myself - i am Ajjantis, a lvl 70 Fury on the Server Venekor. I also have a 70 Necromancer on the same Server.</p><p>It might be just me, but i WELCOME these changes. Currently my PERMANENT incombat runspeed is 50 % as i have spent AAs into the EoF tree and have enough pvp set items to get the extra 15 % and i will gladly pass out on the runspeed as long as other absolutaly overpowered classes get their NEEDED nerf bait. My first Character was my necromancer, a cloth wearer - thinking he would be a good pvp class. Boy was i wrong!!!! His worst nightmare are scouts. Not being able to see stealth they always had the first strike. And that meant an instant death. A lvl 64 ranger can snipershot my necro down to 20 % cause the lack of any type of wards. The following CA, usually the Rain of Arrow line ability finishes me off. Being lvl 70 and not that bad equipped i decided to put him on ice - cloth wearers have absolutaly no space in this game. So i tried out a fury - being a half god in T1-5 the situation kinda changed in T7. This time i could see stealth, and i could always avoid fights by running away with my super speed. Boy was i wrong again!!! A 70 Swashbuckler sneaks up and kills me in 0.0001 seconds. I can use both my emergency heals and even my death prevention spell. I would never make it out alive - let alone stand there and fight! Its not different with rangers. Sure their snipershot doesnt scratch me anymore. Sometimes it hit me only for 1.3k - when they land a super crit its usually arround the 3k area but that surely aint the problem. Certain rangers, i wont mention their names on my server, autoattack me for 2024 dmg!!!!! Please - who needs snipershot and rain of arrows when you auto-attack for 2024 dmg ???? Usually the fight lasts 3 seconds. The curious thing is, they use a lvl 59 treasured bow from a certain kos line. I wont mention more, maybe a designer wants to check that out. I made the fury just because of the runspeed, i thought: If i cant tank em, you can still try to kite them and keep distance. But even with the 50 % incombat speed it never worked. A short snare and the swashbuckler and ranger finish me off. Wizards on otherside can be tricky and i love fightimg them. Fusion followed by an Ice Nova can be kinda tricky and i say proudly that i still loose somtimes to Wizards. If you now recude our healing power, what is the points of these changes? </p><p>There was 1 ranger moaning about the snare thing and that they cant beat furies now. I am so SORRY there is a class that is hard to handle for you!! What about all the other classes that you beat so easy? Everyone has his problem class. For me its mostly a swashbuckler. The funny thing is, these swashbucklers cant beat a warden. I can beat that warden with easy but i cant beat the swashy. </p><p>What i am hoping for after these changes? have some good fights with scouts that will last longer than 5 seconds and MAYBE i can pull out my necromancer again and have fun with him. But before i moan about ANYTHING i will just wait and see the things go live to test them</p>

Lilithu
06-08-2007, 05:08 AM
So, assassins can't assasinate now? Class defining skill is nerfed? You are basically telling us what we are not assassins anymore...

Darkor
06-08-2007, 05:18 AM
No class, and i mean NOBODY should be able to 1 shot a player. It doesnt matter if its Decap, Harmtouch or Snipershot. Even without Decap i ve seen my Assassin mate almost 1 shot lvl 70 clothwearers with their regular high dmg backstabb. It doesnt matter of the skill is on a 10 minut or a 60 minut timer. Its just wrong

Amphibia
06-08-2007, 05:21 AM
<cite>Lilithu wrote:</cite><blockquote>So, assassins can't assasinate now? Class defining skill is nerfed? You are basically telling us what we are not assassins anymore...</blockquote> I was thinking the same. As a monk, assassins are usually a good fight -  but take away their damage and they're screwed. They don't have a lot of hitpoints, so they need to kill people fast. Same goes for rangers and wizards, these classes aren't really made for long fights - they have to kill quick, or lose.

rvbarton
06-08-2007, 05:23 AM
<p>I am excited to see how these changes affect the game, overall...  I can't say I agree with, or disagree with many of the proposed items, but I can say that if fights are extended, that is a good thing.  I play a mystic, and granted I"m only level 47, but when one on one, a scout can  kill me in 4 seconds, even when I have my ST & Group wards up, something is wrong.  add about 5 seconds to the fight, and lets see what happens.  I'm used to dying.  Maybe I can win one or two now.  That would be nice.</p>

Broccoliswo
06-08-2007, 05:23 AM
Note to devs- half the people who whine about other classes on PvP servers don't even really PvP, they just PvE all day. Penalizing PvPers because PvE-ers sometimes get killed on the way to their instances "too fast" for their taste when they probablylack the PvP skill to do anything anyways is ridiculous. In the game at the present time, there's a way to get past any ability that you're nerfing.

Darkor
06-08-2007, 05:26 AM
<p> I dont know what you are talking about? I pvp all day, hell i even skipp guildraids that i am supposed to join sometimes just because i am having some very nice pvp fights. I think you are just worried about your class. Swashys are overpowered, everyone knows it. The funny thing is - most swashys agree with it and they know it. Its about time that En garde and Inspiration is cooled down to match other player abilties.</p><p>I can give you a prime example of swashy power:</p><p>group of 4 FPs in Sinking sands at carpet. All lvl 70. There is that Swashbuckler on the ledge of the cliff...</p><p>He jumps down, goes straight for the caster who has an excellent healer in his grp. In a matter of 1 second he finishes off the caster and can just fly away cause he never engaged any other grp members. So there were 4 people who could NOT stop this guy from a) killing that FP and b) running him away.</p><p> Not different with Rangers, they go on unreachable or hard reachable spots - like in barren sky and just shoot whole x2s dead. That just aint far, accept it man.</p><p>[email protected] wrote:</p><blockquote><p>Note to devs- half the people who whine about other classes on PvP servers don't even really PvP, they just PvE all day. Penalizing PvPers because PvE-ers sometimes get killed on the way to their instances "too fast" for their taste when they probablylack the PvP skill to do anything anyways is ridiculous. In the game at the present time, there's a way to get past any ability that you're nerfing. </p></blockquote>

Naglfar
06-08-2007, 05:31 AM
<p>Great changes ! </p><p>Except the belt. Maybe you could make it works like dragoon's reflex ; 100% parry but not able to use CA or Spells during this time. Or not able to move. There must be a side effect for being immune to melee attacks.</p><p>Otherwise, I can see only good nerfs. I'll try all this on test server.</p><p>EDIT : and please, don't listen to the whine who'll come from every scout who're thinking they are good pvper because they have choose the easiest class to play <img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Broccoliswo
06-08-2007, 05:35 AM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>Great changes ! </p><p>Except the belt. Maybe you could make it works like dragoon's reflex ; 100% parry but not able to use CA or Spells during this time. Or not able to move. There must be a side effect for being immune to melee attacks.</p><p>Otherwise, I can see only good nerfs. I'll try all this on test server.</p><p>EDIT : and please, don't listen to the whine who'll come from every scout who're thinking they are good pvper because they have choose the easiest class to play <img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p></blockquote>Also, take note of how many kills the people who support these changes have. This guy for example hasn't even broken 1,000 yet, hence he is most likely not an active PvPer, and hence in the PvE category mentioned above. I have 13000 kills between my two characters, and I know many of the others explaining how awful these changes are are in the five digits too. Listen to the PvPers tbh.

Darkor
06-08-2007, 05:40 AM
<p> ROFL ofcourse you have 13.000 kills. You play the easiest class in the game. You have track, stealth, Evac and sick [Removed for Content] dps in pvp. An swashy with engrade, inspiration and the pvp belt can kill a grp of 3-4 melees so easy. Get over it allready.</p><p></p><p></p><p>[email protected] wrote: </p><blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>Great changes ! </p><p>Except the belt. Maybe you could make it works like dragoon's reflex ; 100% parry but not able to use CA or Spells during this time. Or not able to move. There must be a side effect for being immune to melee attacks.</p><p>Otherwise, I can see only good nerfs. I'll try all this on test server.</p><p>EDIT : and please, don't listen to the whine who'll come from every scout who're thinking they are good pvper because they have choose the easiest class to play <img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p></blockquote>Also, take note of how many kills the people who support these changes have. This guy for example hasn't even broken 1,000 yet, hence he is most likely not an active PvPer, and hence in the PvE category mentioned above. I have 13000 kills between my two characters, and I know many of the others explaining how awful these changes are are in the five digits too. Listen to the PvPers tbh. </blockquote>

Broccoliswo
06-08-2007, 05:48 AM
This character only has 2700. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> The point remains, any class can get a lot of kills (by grouping) and having 900 kills shows that one is not as heavily into PvP, therefore shouldn't be looking at the same way as someone who PvPs more.

Broccoliswo
06-08-2007, 05:52 AM
<cite>Ajjantis wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> I dont know what you are talking about? I pvp all day, hell i even skipp guildraids that i am supposed to join sometimes just because i am having some very nice pvp fights. I think you are just worried about your class. Swashys are overpowered, everyone knows it. The funny thing is - most swashys agree with it and they know it. Its about time that En garde and Inspiration is cooled down to match other player abilties.</p><p>I can give you a prime example of swashy power:</p><p>group of 4 FPs in Sinking sands at carpet. All lvl 70. There is that Swashbuckler on the ledge of the cliff...</p><p>He jumps down, goes straight for the caster who has an excellent healer in his grp. In a matter of 1 second he finishes off the caster and can just fly away cause he never engaged any other grp members. So there were 4 people who could NOT stop this guy from a) killing that FP and b) running him away.</p><p> Not different with Rangers, they go on unreachable or hard reachable spots - like in barren sky and just shoot whole x2s dead. That just aint far, accept it man.</p><p>[email protected] wrote:</p><blockquote><p>Note to devs- half the people who whine about other classes on PvP servers don't even really PvP, they just PvE all day. Penalizing PvPers because PvE-ers sometimes get killed on the way to their instances "too fast" for their taste when they probablylack the PvP skill to do anything anyways is ridiculous. In the game at the present time, there's a way to get past any ability that you're nerfing. </p></blockquote></blockquote>They're rogues and predators, they're supposed to be able to pick people off and escape, that's the entire point of a scout. Get a tank that taunts better and you're fine.

Ibunubi
06-08-2007, 05:53 AM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>Not like the belt is even going to matter anyways, if en garde is being changed. I don't really use it much but its annoying seeing exilied players whining about PvP rewards all the time when they willingly gave them up. You wanted easy mode raiding and got it, as well as all the functi9ons of a city that weren't there originally, so quit complaining about pvp rewards for factioned players tbh. </blockquote><p>You did just as much complaining.</p><p>Obviously, you're not liking how their changing your swashbuckler. LOL. I am seriously laughing right now.</p><p>I'm a coercer, so I'm biased toward everyone getting changes~ I guess they're reducing Cataclysmic mind since more people will rely on sprint.</p>

Broccoliswo
06-08-2007, 05:56 AM
<cite>Ibunubi wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>Not like the belt is even going to matter anyways, if en garde is being changed. I don't really use it much but its annoying seeing exilied players whining about PvP rewards all the time when they willingly gave them up. You wanted easy mode raiding and got it, as well as all the functi9ons of a city that weren't there originally, so quit complaining about pvp rewards for factioned players tbh. </blockquote><p>You did just as much complaining.</p><p>Obviously, you're not liking how their changing your swashbuckler. LOL. I am seriously laughing right now.</p><p>I'm a coercer, so I'm biased toward everyone getting changes~ I guess they're reducing Cataclysmic mind since more people will rely on sprint.</p></blockquote>As I stated before, I'm not a fan of the belt myself and I have admittedly used it once, however. It;s just annoying when exiles whine about PvP rewards all day when you guys knew you wouldn't have them. I was unhappy for maybe a couple weeks when I lost my PvP rewards but I certainly didn't complain about it for months as many others do. The belt has little effect on how I play my swash, so said remark has no bearing. And as for the other guy, 900 kills since March 2006 is NOT indicitive of an active PvPer.

Darkor
06-08-2007, 06:11 AM
<p>Mate, having thousand over thousand more kills doesnt make you more important. Everyone pays the same 13 Bucks a month so everyone has their right to express their feelings. Let him have only 900 kills, his oppinion and feelings are equal worth to yours with 13.000 kills.</p><p>[email protected] wrote: </p><blockquote><cite>Ibunubi wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>Not like the belt is even going to matter anyways, if en garde is being changed. I don't really use it much but its annoying seeing exilied players whining about PvP rewards all the time when they willingly gave them up. You wanted easy mode raiding and got it, as well as all the functi9ons of a city that weren't there originally, so quit complaining about pvp rewards for factioned players tbh. </blockquote><p>You did just as much complaining.</p><p>Obviously, you're not liking how their changing your swashbuckler. LOL. I am seriously laughing right now.</p><p>I'm a coercer, so I'm biased toward everyone getting changes~ I guess they're reducing Cataclysmic mind since more people will rely on sprint.</p></blockquote>As I stated before, I'm not a fan of the belt myself and I have admittedly used it once, however. It;s just annoying when exiles whine about PvP rewards all day when you guys knew you wouldn't have them. I was unhappy for maybe a couple weeks when I lost my PvP rewards but I certainly didn't complain about it for months as many others do. The belt has little effect on how I play my swash, so said remark has no bearing. And as for the other guy, 900 kills since March 2006 is NOT indicitive of an active PvPer. </blockquote>

Cobbin
06-08-2007, 06:34 AM
Wooot the day of the Templar has finnaly arrived now you all will get a chance to see what not being able to dps is all about!

Naglfar
06-08-2007, 06:37 AM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>Someone who rarely PvPs making comments about how wonderful changes are that impact people who DO PvP regularly is ridiculous. </blockquote><p> From "the guy with 900 kills" : i'm pvping only since the merge, before that there was nobody to kill <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>And with 13k kills, you should be able to continue to be successful at pvp even with the nerf. We'll see exactly the amount of the nerf on test server, but if it gives just a little chance to some classes to survive more than 2 sec, it's a good change for me. </p><p>Btw, more than the scout nerf, I think the most important change is the caster upgrade. I hope casters will  become dangerous opponents with this GU, it will bring more diversity in solo fights.</p>

Broccoliswo
06-08-2007, 06:42 AM
How about you make it so people can't pick their chests back up while they're rez zerging over and over too? <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Bauer
06-08-2007, 07:10 AM
<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote> <span style="font-size: xx-small"><b>Please note - The following changes occur in PvP combat only.  PvE functionality of these items and abilities, even on PvP servers, remains as they are today.</b> <b>General</b> </span> <ul><li><span style="font-size: xx-small">Damage was reduced at the higher levels based on class. Rogues, predators, sorcerers and summoners had the greatest reduction.  Druids, enchanters and brawlers fall in the middle while the others had lower amounts of damage reduction.  The goal being to introduce more strategy in PvP at the high end.</span></li><li><span style="font-size: xx-small">In combat run speeds will now suspend during PvP cmbat, except for the bard achievement which grants in-combat run speed to Selo's.</span></li></ul> <span style="font-size: xx-small"> <b>Assassin</b> </span> <ul><li><span style="font-size: xx-small">Reduced the duration of the root effect for the Freezing Strike line</span></li><li><span style="font-size: xx-small">Reduced the damage of Assassinate and Decapitate.</span></li></ul> <span style="font-size: xx-small"><b>Brigand</b> </span> <ul><li><span style="font-size: xx-small">Double up should only work on spells cast in the last second instead of last 2 seconds.</span></li><li><span style="font-size: xx-small">Lowered the debuff amount on Devitalize and Dispatch      </span></li><li><span style="font-size: xx-small">Reduced the stun duration on the Low Blow line.</span></li></ul> <span style="font-size: xx-small"><b>Bruiser</b> </span> <ul><li><span style="font-size: xx-small">Reduced the duration of Drag </span> </li></ul> <span style="font-size: xx-small"><b>Coercer</b> </span> <ul><li><span style="font-size: xx-small">Lowered the damage done by Cataclysmic mind and its associated spells.</span></li></ul> <span style="font-size: xx-small"><b>Fury</b> </span> <ul><li><span style="font-size: xx-small">Reduced the duration of the root line</span></li></ul> <span style="font-size: xx-small"><b>Monk</b> </span> <ul><li><span style="font-size: xx-small">The Evade achievement should now cause your target to lose its target like scout evade skills do.</span></li></ul> <span style="font-size: xx-small"><b>Ranger</b> </span> <ul><li><span style="font-size: xx-small">The Hunter's Instinct line will now buff out of combat speed rather than in combat speed.</span></li><li><span style="font-size: xx-small">Reduced the duration and range of Hook Arrow </span> </li><li><span style="font-size: xx-small">Reduced the root duration of the Lung line</span></li><li><span style="font-size: xx-small">Reduced the snare duration on the Leg Shot line.</span></li><li><span style="font-size: xx-small">Reduced the damage done by the Sniper Shot line.</span></li></ul> <span style="font-size: xx-small"><b>Necromancer</b> </span> <ul><li><span style="font-size: xx-small">Lowered the duration of control effects on the fighter pet.</span></li></ul> <span style="font-size: xx-small"><b>Shadowknight</b> </span> <ul><li><span style="font-size: xx-small">Reduced the damage to the Harm Touch line.</span></li></ul> <span style="font-size: xx-small"><b>Swashbuckler</b> </span> <ul><li><span style="font-size: xx-small">Lowered the damage on Inspired Daring</span></li><li><span style="font-size: xx-small">Lowered the damage to En Garde.  It will also now use mitigation and can be dodged, blocked, parried and deflected in PvP combat.</span></li></ul><span style="font-size: xx-small"> <b>Warden</b> </span> <ul><li><span style="font-size: xx-small">Reduced the duration of Root and Snare lines.</span></li></ul> <span style="font-size: xx-small"><b>Wizard</b> </span> <ul><li><span style="font-size: xx-small">Reduced the damage of Ice Comet</span></li><li><span style="font-size: xx-small">Reduced the damage of Fusion</span></li></ul> <span style="font-size: xx-small"><b>Items</b> </span> <ul><li><span style="font-size: xx-small">Reduced the damage and heal on the Signet of Light From Darkness.</span></li><li><span style="font-size: xx-small">Lowered the Malicious Assault bonus on the Brigand Interloper's Coat.</span></li><li><span style="font-size: xx-small">The effect on the Belt of Gateways has been changed from 100% riposte to 100% parry.  Additionally, its reuse has been reduced from one hour to 10 minutes.</span></li></ul> </blockquote><span style="color: #ccff00"> </span> <span style="color: #0000ff"><span style="color: #ccff00">I am all for nerfing for balance, but in the sense of tweaking. A few of these changes are too radical, and a few issues have been left unaddressed here. Some of these changes I like; I shall name these first:</span> </span><ul><li><u>The predator's big hits</u>, I believe nerfing these is a good change in dumbing down the gankage. It will make the whole game more enjoyable for a lot of people, and just disallow a 1shot for the preds. Good change.</li><li><u>The incombat run speed</u>. All changes to this are very welcome, this will lead to more fighting I should hope.</li><li><u>The damage reduction of HT</u> and to some extent, Ice comet. I think every knows, even the SKs deep down, that this is a thoroughly OP skill that needed tweaking. Whether it was in the recast, damage, range, resistability, casting time or whatever; it needed it. Personally I think the recast should have been doubled and the damage left as it is.. but that will still breed the ''camping out til HT is up'' mentality. Good change.</li><li><u>The swashie cooldowns </u>definitely needed sorting out. I hope they are not useless now though.</li><li>The belt of gateways changing to Parry is a very good change for balance.. but.. (read below)</li></ul> <span style="color: #cc0000">The changes that I think will be totally detrimental to the experience are: </span><ul><li><u>First off let's talk about the Belt.</u> That was a bold skill to be giving a scout, on <i>any recast</i> let alone 10 minutes. It is an absurd thing to do. Every PVP fight it will be used, and the game will become timing your BoG activation right. Good nerf on the Riposte, but PLEASE do not make the recast 10 mins. The Riposte nerf isn't even much of a nerf, considering most people will stop attacking once all attacks are riposted - It is used as a 10s godmode. To allow scouts to have an avoidance tank's ancient teachings skill every 10 minutes on top of what they have is <u>ridiculous.</u></li><li><u>The Rangers root & snare</u>. Ranger's root is 4 seconds long. It is basically as short as it could be without becoming redundant. With AA it can be boosted by a mere 2 seconds, using FIVE AA points to do so. This is a totally unnecessary nerf, I don't think I've ever heard of someone calling for ranger root length reduction. It's an emergency skill at best, when a melee class gets close and you have nothing to attempt to get away with, it's certain death. Leg shot's duration is meagre as it is! Everyone can cure it off if need be anyway. These are changes which take away some of the skillful elements of fighting which still exist. It will allow the less geared/equipped/skillfully played melee class to take down rangers much more easily. </li><li><u>Where are the nerfs to Druid pvp heals?</u> In vanguard, healers have heals which cannot even be used upon themselves. This is the kind of tweaking we need to be seeing in PVP. Not complete loss of heals, but reduction of self healing amounts in PVP. Let them keep their fully potent heals in groups, when healing a tank, but to have the same healing ability while solo, as well as the DPS, buffs and utility they already have is unbalanced. As is evident from the multiple calls for druid power reduction. </li></ul><span style="color: #33cc00">Those are my views on the situation. I've been PVPing since launch, I have played all three factions, and have had success with all archetypes. PVP needs tweaking, not overhauling. <span style="color: #cc0000">EDIT: Oh and I can't believe I forgot about the AA nerfing. Do you realise, Sony, that level a level 60 will not be able to have maximum AA? This is far too large of an AA reductions, and though the T2 twinks need sorting out - to stop the deterrence of new players - This will not help a bit. Like another poster stated, this will punish the hard workers in the middle tiers, where pvp is currently the most balanced and, imo, fun. People love the long, hardcore challenge of levelling from 10 to 50 on quests. Now there's this cap, the ultimate goal is totally weak. It makes even more for a game where people who make little effort with their toons can be equally as powerful, and the real pvpers get punished.</span> </span>

Tarquin1
06-08-2007, 07:12 AM
Im just going to shake my head on these changes. Not as much as my snares getting nerfed, but class defining spells/CA's getting nerfed as well. Like the coercer Cataclysmic line, thats one of their "must have" spells to actually stand a chance in pvp. Because it seems the majority of Nagafen is scouts (it <u><b>seems</b></u>, not a statistic).

CresentBlade
06-08-2007, 07:21 AM
Looking forward to some fun filled pvp, this should be interesting,<img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Beagest
06-08-2007, 07:55 AM
Thanks SOE, you just killed my dream of having a 34 sk with 61 aa...most uncool <img src="/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> /sigh

G1Joe
06-08-2007, 08:14 AM
<p>Grats Wardens welcome to uberness <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>seriously tho, [I cannot control my vocabulary] is that belt change all about!!!!  It shouldnt even be available to scouts Guardians maybe but not scouts lol</p><p>Yay for Bards! dunno if its enough but good luck to you all</p><p>as for the swashy change [I cannot control my vocabulary] the damage unless its gonna do like 1point how about a Grave Blessing type change instead where a pre-determined number of procs would occur.</p>

Kajarnir
06-08-2007, 08:30 AM
<p>I welcome all introduction changes.</p><p>As Templar have not root, snare or something slow. I cant cast in move but listen</p><p>some crying from scouts on healers.</p><p>/laugh</p><p>Maybe will be PvP better (not only for scouts) <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Marduk
06-08-2007, 08:36 AM
<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote><b>Shadowknight</b> <ul><li>Reduced the damage to the Harm Touch line.</li></ul></blockquote>i think this is normal. but.. how much is it? if about 10% - nothing change, if about 50% - this is ridiculous, because it will be less than usual skill of wizard and one time in 15 minu tes? oh.. i think be better if damage reduce near  50% and reuse time also reduce to 5, mb 8 minutes sorry for my bad english <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Krokous
06-08-2007, 08:44 AM
nerf rogues and assasins,  atm they can destroy any one in few seconds and their victim cant even scratch them before dying! i would also say nerf sorcerers, im lvl 59, with cca 2500 resist in all magical and same level wizzard can destroy me with 2 spells, he nukes me for 3500 with ice comet and finishes my 5000 hp pool with some sick hits for 1500

seigwahrheit
06-08-2007, 08:48 AM
Guys im an assassin and ive never ever one hitted an even con at 70 and im pretty well geared.. But thats just something i wanted to throw in to the arguement pot. I'll take a nerf; i can see some of these changes are necessary but there are 2 MAJOR negatives that should be addressed. 1) Firstly and foremostly the PVP belt should be removed from the game (I can say that cos im city aligned and scout class to use it) NOT reduced in timers that is truly stupid. 2) Also nerf the healers or they will simply rule all; furies can hit harder than i can with less of a recast, and wardens can already outheal most classes, with this new update all the swashies are just gonna reroll druids; (well actually no theyve got the belt on a 10 min timer now) Well thats my thoughts on the subject anyhow

seigwahrheit
06-08-2007, 08:50 AM
<cite>Krokous wrote:</cite><blockquote>nerf rogues and assasins,  atm they can destroy any one in few seconds and their victim cant even scratch them before dying! i would also say nerf sorcerers, im lvl 59, with cca 2500 resist in all magical and same level wizzard can destroy me with 2 spells, he nukes me for 3500 with ice comet and finishes my 5000 hp pool with some sick hits for 1500 </blockquote> You see its none thought out requests like that that gets us in this kind of dumb situation in the first place. What about Ranger? oh thats right because you obviously are thinking from a limited selfish view and have never had to fight your own alignment they can stay as they are according to you? People need to think about the game as a whole not just their own classes.

Krokous
06-08-2007, 08:59 AM
mr. assasin, i played SK, betrayed him to queynos to experience being paladin = i was being completely destroyed by brigand and assasins (no chance to heal or ward myself, stun stun, interrupt, death) now im back sk and yes wizard destroys me unbelievably, i have a chance vs even level swash (if he doesnt use inspired daring) as for rangers... i fought rangers as fury and sk and i dont think rangers are so overpowered as rogues thats why i exluded them. onl yoverpopower they have is that when they attack me and they see that they are loosing they just hit their 90 speed sprint and its end of combat. <cite>seigwahrheit wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Krokous wrote:</cite><blockquote>nerf rogues and assasins,  atm they can destroy any one in few seconds and their victim cant even scratch them before dying! i would also say nerf sorcerers, im lvl 59, with cca 2500 resist in all magical and same level wizzard can destroy me with 2 spells, he nukes me for 3500 with ice comet and finishes my 5000 hp pool with some sick hits for 1500 </blockquote> You see its none thought out requests like that that gets us in this kind of dumb situation in the first place. What about Ranger? oh thats right because you obviously are thinking from a limited selfish view and have never had to fight your own alignment they can stay as they are according to you? People need to think about the game as a whole not just their own classes. </blockquote>

Krokous
06-08-2007, 09:11 AM
and seriously nerf HT line in t3  t4 t5,    but leave it as it is in t6 - t7 - t8  , it t6  casters nuke way higher and way more often than ht, and if you  will fix t7 resist rates casters will burn anyone

Istaril
06-08-2007, 09:34 AM
Some <b>very</b> welcome changes there. Swash nerfs, runspeed nerfs... etc. Very much looking forward to a few more details on these. However, anything I say will obviously be dismissed by most as 'you're a templar, you're gaining from all this'... But I think before pouncing on the "nerf heals", keep in mind that the intent here (as stated in the original post) is to slow down combat and allow skill a greater opportunity to make the difference. Heals are one of the best ways of ensuring this happens in a manner that is based on player skill. That doesn't mean that an overall reduction in damage without touching heals will be ideal - but before people jump on the nerf heals immediately bandwagon, please take a chance and test it out. By increasing group pvp dependence on heals/healers, dynamics and speed of pvp fights could change considerably - and that could indeed be a good thing.

Elephanton
06-08-2007, 09:52 AM
<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>In general the higher damage classes like predators, rogues, sorcerers, and summoners will see the most notable reduction in high level PvP damage.</blockquote><p>LOL, well this basically makes ranger (T1 DPS class in PVE) a non-DPS class in PVP. Most of our hits are on 1min+ timers, apply "most notable damage reduction" to this and you will get a T4 DPS class in PVP. What a brilliant idea.</p><p>Another super idea is reducing the duration of ranger's 4 sec root... haha this is just sick, how shorter a root could get than 4 sec? Will it be 2 sec long, like a stun? Haha someone is just brain dead over there... 2 sec root is useless - not enought time to backoff and fire a single good CA.</p><p>Anyway, thanks for totally braking almost ideal PVP we are having since GU35.</p><p>Only new idea I welcome is addressing T7 resists rates for mages (even though there's a warlock out there that I just cannot beat with my ranger in duel even now).</p><p>As well as tuning done in-combat speed is nice (but not when it's class defining ability, like for rangers who are totally impotent in melee combat and are in real need of means to be able to make a distance while in-combat). </p>

LlewCadey
06-08-2007, 09:53 AM
yay for changes..... too bad its not the right changes riposte belt turned into a parry will belt will still stack and proc with en-garde just the same, just that now they can combo these two every 10 minutes. As for big hits, i dont think anyone was complaining overall, with rangers thier hits arent too big, tis more the fact they can hit you multiple times while snarring you and debuffing you in a matter of secconds, leaving you without much help. Its the combos thats the issue here. Also i cant believe SOE are nerfing casters!!! yes you heard me right NERFING CASTERS!!!! absolutly rediculous, if anything they need to be improved drastically. heres what i would change, class by class General: All stuns/mezzes/root/stifle effects will now trigger immunities for every crowd control method (ie a stun will force immunity to all CC effects listed before etc) Swashbuckler: En-garde/pvp belt no longer stackable Damage of inspiration reduced in pvp Brigand: Restrain now a 2 seccond root in pvp Ranger: Increased the cooldowns on all range attacks by 50% reduced ranged auto attack damage by 50% Assasin: Assasinate and its lines now have a 2 seccond cool down Dirges: All combat arts/spells now deal 25% more pvp damage Can use poisons Troubadours: All combat arts/spells now deal 25% more pvp damage Can you poisons Paladins: Increased auto attack damage by 25% in pvp Shadowknights: Harm touch line now 30% less damage Reaver line heals now heal 30% less while in pvp Guardians: 10% mitigation gain while in PVP Berserkers: 10% Damage increase while in pvp Monks: FD while in PVP will no longer drop NPC encounters Bruisers: Drag reduced duration FD while in PVP will no longer drop NPC encounters Wizards: All spells 15% less resistable in PVP 10% avoidance increase while in pvp Root spells 25% harder to resist Warlocks All spells 15% less resistable in PVP 10% avoidance increase while in PVP Root spells 17% harder to resist Necromancer: Lifeburn now consumes health twice as fast while in PVP All spells 15% less resistable in PVP 5% mitigation bonus in PVP Conjuror: All spells 15% less resistable in PVP 5% mitigation bonus in PVP Coercer: All spells 10% less resistabe in PVP Charm will now break less often in PVP and duration increased to 15 secconds Illusionist: Mez duration halved for PVP, triggers immunity to stun/stifle on termination All spells 10% less resistable in PVP Wardens: All heal ammounts reduced by 20% while solo in PVP Spores trigger % halved while in PVP Fury: All heals reduced by 10% while solo in PVP there we go, this is what SHOULD be seen.

Swass
06-08-2007, 10:11 AM
<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>Feedback on the upcoming changes is welcome.  However, please try the changes out on the test pvp server before jumping to conclusions on some of the topics.  If you haven't already, you can copy your character using the /testcopy command so that your character arrives there before the changes go to test next week. </blockquote><p>Please read his quote. Instead of bickering and complaining about the changes, take the time to be constructive and actually TRY to be apart of the upcoming changes. I've read some good ideas from others on this thread, yet they will probably never do a /testcopy until its too late and will leave them unhappy about PvPing.</p><p>Your ideas will be noticed MORE when actually helping on the test server with /feedback rather than post after post on these forums. The top pvpers are actually posting in this thread, and I will stress this again--Get off your [Removed for Content] and be constructive instead of saying "Im gonna do this and that or I'll wait and see what happens."</p><p>Laugh.</p>

rvbarton
06-08-2007, 10:12 AM
<blockquote><span style="color: #ff0000">Who said anything about PvP belt? Assume all you want, but know this -- I'm laughing because your swashbuckler reroll from assassin and move *from* exile (after ALSO complaining, which you're attempting to call others out on) is going down the drain. What a tool, you are in this thread.</span></blockquote> <span style="color: #ffffff">I so totally agree here...</span>

Tarlok
06-08-2007, 10:14 AM
I love these changes they will be great for the game and I will come back to check them out when they go live. I quit pvp months ago because of a lot of this and I had a Swashy.  Was even t4, used to have a blast with him.  I deleted that char but may roll the pvp char I always wanted to play but didn't due to only rogue/pred/druid dominance. A coercer or defiler.

Wytie
06-08-2007, 10:30 AM
<span style="color: #ff0000">all i can say is....  Grats DEVs  NOW please address ZERGING if your gona make fights last longer, you better make self reviveing slower. i dont want to have to kill the same group 3 or 4 times as they trickle back to me one by one damit .  mmmmmmkkkkkkk</span>

Bozidar
06-08-2007, 10:33 AM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>Id really like to know what your over all goals are for EQ2 PvP Aeralik...</p><p>Also these Nerfs seem to be focused on Solo PvP</p></blockquote><p>This is also my primary concern here.  This is completely for the lose... I also don't understand the nerf to roots and snares.  So easy to cure.. </p><p>ALSO -- Pact will no longer work in combat?  FTL.. what a completely horrible fury nerf.. </p>

lost
06-08-2007, 10:34 AM
My zerker is happy, but I don't think the brig nerfs were really that necessary. Switching belt to parry, it should still keep its 1 hour timer.

Greggthegrmreapr
06-08-2007, 10:37 AM
<p>I have to agree that reducing damage will make druids even more over powered than they already are.</p>

Bozidar
06-08-2007, 10:41 AM
<cite>Kruhl wrote:</cite><blockquote><------ Inc MONK.  Very bad changes.  When I fight Berserkers and Monks now, they beat me more often than I beat them.  They are really powerful against Brigands.  After this patch, since Monks are getting an upgrade, and Berserkers aren't being touched at all, it won't even be a competition anymore.  Might as well just run away as soon as I see either of these classes now.  GG SOE. </blockquote><p> this, btw, is one of the funniest things i've ever seen <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Tanks are supposed to be able to kill a rogues 1v1! You're both melee classes, they have ways of increasing their health, and either wear much stronger armor or have much more avoidance than you.  The fact that you used to be able to kill warriors, crusaders and brawlers on a rogue is why pvp is broken at end game.</p><p>Running away when you see certain classes... THATS BALANCED PVP!</p><p>I really like the nerfs to en guarde, inspiration, dispatch, ect... i felt that T7 rogues were out of control, and it's good to see them "corrected".  It will be very interesting to see how things balance out at end-game now.  I think healers are going to become VERY powerful.. and not just druids</p>

Gagla
06-08-2007, 10:54 AM
<p>Well if they're nerfing high end damage as in Fusion and Harm Touch... Guess I'll never lose to a Wizard or SK again.</p><p>GG</p>

Bozidar
06-08-2007, 10:55 AM
<cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lilithu wrote:</cite><blockquote>So, assassins can't assasinate now? Class defining skill is nerfed? You are basically telling us what we are not assassins anymore...</blockquote> I was thinking the same. As a monk, assassins are usually a good fight -  but take away their damage and they're screwed. They don't have a lot of hitpoints, so they need to kill people fast. Same goes for rangers and wizards, these classes aren't really made for long fights - they have to kill quick, or lose. </blockquote> A perfect description for rangers and assassins.  Sorcerers.. eh.. they have a lot more utility besides dps.  I'd say the longer fights aren't great for them, but not as horrible as they will be for predators.

Harbringer Doom
06-08-2007, 10:59 AM
These changes and past changes seem to be moving towards the goal of "longer" fights.  In actuality it seems to me that reducing the effectiveness of snares/roots/etc. and reducing the amount of damage that can be done, in order to "mak[e] player vs player combat somewhat more equitable" because "fights are frequently far too short" will encourage one thing:  more running.  More successful running. And with the removal of most in combat run speeds, it will be more running before the fight even begins. And on top of that, we've all experienced, I'm sure, trying to catch that group that is running away, an you have to cast at them to slow them down.  Now, once you do that, you'll drop to zero percent run speed, while they retain all their speed buffs. Why are runners rewarded?  And for that matter, why can't I chase someone on a griff?  What am I, stupid?  I'm too angry to correctly hail the griffon tamer?  Does he get mad at me because I run up the tower swinging my sword in his face, and at his griffon as the enemy jumps on.  Is he mad because I grab him by the front of his tunic and yell "HAIL GRIFFON TAMER!!  GET ME ON A [Removed for Content] GRIFFON NOW YOU TODDERING FEN-SUCKED DEWBERRY!!!" "Not until you calm down," he replied to me.

Bozidar
06-08-2007, 11:08 AM
<p>Dear Dev -- please reconsider your AA nerf.</p><p>I don't think it's bad because it's too harsh, but because it doesnt' really solve the problem that most have been weeping about.  1.5 aa / level isn't too bad.  Yes, sucks for that lvl 60 guy who's trying to make max AA.</p><p>Read this carefully --- <i>you need to fix the bug where you can turn in examine quests when dead!!!</i>.</p>

Lilithu
06-08-2007, 11:14 AM
<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Dear Dev -- please reconsider your AA nerf.</p><p>I don't think it's bad because it's too harsh, but because it doesnt' really solve the problem that most have been weeping about.  1.5 aa / level isn't too bad.  Yes, sucks for that lvl 60 guy who's trying to make max AA.</p><p>Read this carefully --- <i>you need to fix the bug where you can turn in examine quests when dead!!!</i>.</p></blockquote>I think the best solution would be if AA multiplier would scale with tiers. In t2 it should be something like 1.2, because few more AA points are really important in lower levels and each tier it should increase by 0.2. So level 50, who works really hard, could possibly get all 100 AAs.

Elephanton
06-08-2007, 11:23 AM
<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>In GU 36, PvP will be receiving some changes aimed at making player vs player combat somewhat more equitable, especially <b>at the higher levels where fights are frequently far too short</b> and entirely predetermined based solely on your class.</blockquote><p>Guess what - predators (especially rangers) are just not designed for long fights. If you plan on cutting our CA damage that all have around 1min reuse timer, consider reducing reuse by half in PVP as well.</p><p>Nerfing mage nukes is OK given you will fix resists at T7 - mages have short recasts so overall no changes for them. Before: resist-resist-nuke. After: smallernuke-smallernuke-smallernuke. Sounds perfect to me.</p><p>Nerfing predator's CA is NOT OK. I can't remember one fight which lasted enough time that I could use my CAs more than once per fight. And guess what, we still get a lot of "resists" on our CAs and this is not affected with this update. You can't just reduce damage on predators without giving something in return. </p>

Harbringer Doom
06-08-2007, 11:28 AM
<cite>Lilithu wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Dear Dev -- please reconsider your AA nerf.</p><p>I don't think it's bad because it's too harsh, but because it doesnt' really solve the problem that most have been weeping about.  1.5 aa / level isn't too bad.  Yes, sucks for that lvl 60 guy who's trying to make max AA.</p><p>Read this carefully --- <i>you need to fix the bug where you can turn in examine quests when dead!!!</i>.</p></blockquote>I think the best solution would be if AA multiplier would scale with tiers. In t2 it should be something like 1.2, because few more AA points are really important in lower levels and each tier it should increase by 0.2. So level 50, who works really hard, could possibly get all 100 AAs. </blockquote>Level            AA Allowed 10                       15 11                       16                    12                       18 13                       19 14                       21 15                       22 16                       24 17                       25 18                       27 19                       28 20                       30 21                       32 22                       33 23                       34 24                       36 25                       37 26                       39 27                       40 Yeah, you know what?  I run with a Swashy who has something like 44 AA at level 27.  She's a monster.  Limiting her to 40 AA at 27 instead of 44 isn't really going to make her much less of a monster. Not to rock the boat, but this AA scheme shouldn't appease the "Ah!  All the noobs are being rolled by AA twinks" crowd. Me thinks this system will still allow one to utilize much more AA than the average Joe non-level locker player.

stryker268
06-08-2007, 11:31 AM
<p>  You know, i posted earlier and was a little light hearted about it.  Biggest compaint being the BoG.  But the more i think about it the madder it makes me.  Why is it that every time there is an update or rules change they nerf the ranger?</p><p> 1)  Sniper shot is not the defining CA for a ranger, the devs themselves say it is supposed to be rain of arrows.  They already have Sniper's dmg down so far that a really well equipped ranger does more damage with his auto-attack than with Sniper Shot anyway.  Add to that the 6 second cast time (unenhanced) and Sniper Shot really isn't all that much of an advantage anyway.  I mean, aren't PT and the Assassinate line insta-cast?</p><p> 2) All anyone has to do to severely limit a ranger is get up close and personal.  So what happens now?  Devs decide to limit our one 4 second root.  and...</p><p>3) our Leg Shot which slows.  This will make it even harder to keep any range.  But according the the devs we are supposed to be a melee class, like Assassins and Brigs.  Yeah, right.  Every try to beat on a plate wearer as a ranger.  It's an exercise in futility.   And any of the real melee scouts up close is just suicide.  And let's not even get into fighting a healer without the benefit of range.  </p><p>  4) Now take away a rangers in-comabt runspeed buffs.  That'll make sure those pesky little scouts can't get away now that we have them where we want 'em, right devs?  And just for good measure let's......</p><p>5)  nerf that damned Hook Arrow.  I personally have never taken the Hook Arrow AA ability.  But sounds like fun and we can't be having that now can we.</p><p>   So by my count that is 5 proposed ranger nerfs.  Is there any other class with that many proposed changes?  No, but these guys are rangers and they should be used to the nerf bat by now.  Hit 'em again!!!  Isn't this fun?!!  Woot!!</p>

Bozidar
06-08-2007, 11:49 AM
<p>can someone who has hook shot tell me how reducing the duration on an insta-effect spell makes sense?  I get the reduction of range... ok *claps*</p><p>what is this about duration on hook shot?</p>

Bozidar
06-08-2007, 12:02 PM
<p>*cracks knuckles*</p><p>Ok, let's think of some better fixes for the AA situation.  The 1.5 nerf isn't really going to slow people down much.  Non-lockers aren't going to achieve the AA that lockers will -- we can all accept that.  The 1.5 nerf will REDUCE some of the power that lockers get (i know a guy who had 37 at lvl 20).  Ok, but is it really going to make THAT big of a difference?  I have worked pretty hard on my brigands AA, and at lvl 20 i can get my end line kos ability and 5 points in street smarts.  pretty powerful, imo.  Sure, spending 2 more points on my line to flesh it out is nice.. but doesn't make me significantly more powerful.</p><p>Alright, here's a suggestion, besides the one above about turning in quests dead:</p><p>Xp gained from quests and discovery are filtered through the debt process.  Change this.  Apply quest and disco xp directly to xp totals and circumvent debt.  If people want to grind up debt so they can slowly kill mobs.. fine.. but it would no longer be used to grind out AA as well.  Would pve'rs cry?  Maybe.. but if you're going to apply the 1.5 AA limit i'm sure it's going to apply to PvE as well -- right?</p>

Bozidar
06-08-2007, 12:03 PM
<cite>Wytie wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Hands down dumbest thing you've ever said... <i>Grats How about you dont post on forums or How about you dont roll a mage</i>, or any other non scout class. How would you like that as answer to your problems you wouldnt like it would you.</p><p>So dont bring that BS to an ovbious zerg problem and the thing is, most of these changes are for the better but in the end only will increase zerger further. Intill they solve that its just only gone make pvp more and more pointless.</p><p>Do you know how long it takes to revive and return to the fight even if its no where near a revive point you can still zerg exp if the fights will now last longer....<img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p></blockquote><p> I agree with you that rev-zerging is going to be that much worse with prolonged fights.  That's a no-brainer.  </p><p>easy solution -- allow for incombat rezs, but you can not revive while your group is in pvp combat.</p>

Bloodfa
06-08-2007, 12:06 PM
<p>Hmmm... it's all-in-all going to be better for me and my alts, so I'm happy.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Swashy gets a little nerf.  Needs to get the Belt timer at something higher than 10 minutes, though.  Not that I'll ever be able to <i>get</i> a belt, but a 10 minute timer on 100% immunity from melee damage seems a bit excessive.  So fights will last longer than "Huh?!  [Removed for Content] was that?!?!" <select respawn location>  I see that as a good thing.  A fight should actually be a (wait for it....) fight.  Best fun I've ever had in PvP was finishing up with almost no power and less life.  Might make people actually have to do more than click 2 macros to win.  I also think my days of soloing PvP are at an end, but the majority don't solo, so that's a good thing, I guess.  Healers just moved way up in the food chain for survivability.   I'm glad I've been playing my Warden a lot lately. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  But again, we'll see what happens when the final list is made.</p><p>Oh, and thanks to the Devs for keeping us in the loop.  I appreciate that.</p>

convict
06-08-2007, 12:09 PM
<cite>Wytie wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>convict wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>How about you make it so people can't pick their chests back up while they're rez zerging over and over too? <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000">Dont fight at rez points..</span></p></blockquote><p>Hands down dumbest thing you've ever said... <i>Grats How about you dont post on forums or <b><span style="color: #ff3300">How about you dont roll a mage</span></b></i><b><span style="color: #ff3300">, or any other non scout class</span></b>. How would you like that as answer to your problems you wouldnt like it would you.</p><p>So dont bring that BS to an ovbious zerg problem and the thing is, most of these changes are for the better but in the end only will increase zerger further. Intill they solve that its just only gone make pvp more and more pointless.</p><p>Do you know how long it takes to revive and return to the fight even if its no where near a revive point you can still zerg exp if the fights will now last longer....<img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p></blockquote>What does playing a class have anything to do with zerging? Nothing.. Please take your own advice.. Not once have I had a problem with zerging.. If your killing them, then whats the problem? It sounds more like, I killed them, they zerged me and GOT THIER FAME BACK more than anything.. Maybe theres somewhere out there where EVERYONE pvp's at and just so happens its easy/fast to return to a fight that I dont usually fight at, but I have never had a problem with zerging... Granted, I dont eat and sleep eq2 either..

Badaxe Ba
06-08-2007, 12:10 PM
<p>I just spent an hour and a half roaming Norrath on the PVP test server.  KoS, Darklight woods, nektulos, Commonlands, into West freeport itself, and South Freeport.  Noone.</p><p>I hailed /ooc every zone, I /w all every 10 minutes.  Right before I logged, a lvl 1 paladin and lvl 12 monk logged into Gfay, but they didn't respond to /good channel chat.</p><p>Now granted, this is at 9:30am till 11:00 am EST.  But an hour and a half and only 3 people?  Before Aerilik starts talking about testing, I challenge him to PM me and arrange some testing!  How about arranging an actual scheduled event!</p><p>Ok, and for the fury who thinks its funny, I would point out I rarely take on healers solo as it is, add in a reduction of damage to rangers dps, and the only class we will stand a chance at solo will be the AFK ones.  BTW Sniper shot is a t6 CA, with a 6 second casting time, which you must remain stealthed and nonmoving.  Why don't you just remove it from the game entirely DEVs. I'm just tired of noninformed players whining and crying over this soon-to-be grey ability.</p><p>WHERE IS THE TESTING!</p><p>Newest Ranger joke:  </p><p>HOW DOES A RANGER SURVIVE A LONG FIGHT?</p><p>THEY DON'T.</p>

Bloodfa
06-08-2007, 12:10 PM
<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>*cracks knuckles*</p><p>Ok, let's think of some better fixes for the AA situation.  The 1.5 nerf isn't really going to slow people down much.  Non-lockers aren't going to achieve the AA that lockers will -- we can all accept that.  The 1.5 nerf will REDUCE some of the power that lockers get (i know a guy who had 37 at lvl 20).  Ok, but is it really going to make THAT big of a difference?  I have worked pretty hard on my brigands AA, and at lvl 20 i can get my end line kos ability and 5 points in street smarts.  pretty powerful, imo.  Sure, spending 2 more points on my line to flesh it out is nice.. but doesn't make me significantly more powerful.</p><p>Alright, here's a suggestion, besides the one above about turning in quests dead:</p><p><b>Xp gained from quests and discovery are filtered through the debt process.  Change this.  Apply quest and disco xp directly to xp totals and circumvent debt.  If people want to grind up debt so they can slowly kill mobs.. fine.. but it would no longer be used to grind out AA as well. </b> Would pve'rs cry?  Maybe.. but if you're going to apply the 1.5 AA limit i'm sure it's going to apply to PvE as well -- right?</p></blockquote>Oh, that's a nice one there.  <i>That</i> would make a bit of difference to the lockers.  Especially the ones that are going to be rolling up new Wardens.

Wytie
06-08-2007, 12:12 PM
<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Xp gained from quests and discovery are filtered through the debt process.  Change this.  Apply quest and disco xp directly to xp totals and circumvent debt.  If people want to grind up debt so they can slowly kill mobs.. fine.. but it would no longer be used to grind out AA as well.  Would pve'rs cry?  Maybe.. but if you're going to apply the 1.5 AA limit i'm sure it's going to apply to PvE as well -- right?</p></blockquote>hey thats a really good idea, IMO  but this still allows the folks who have already done it to still have the advantage so they never have to worry about anyone new being stronger than them, only flaw but still not a bad idea tho

Bozidar
06-08-2007, 12:14 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>Oh, that's a nice one there.  <i>That</i> would make a bit of difference to the lockers.  Especially the ones that are going to be rolling up new Wardens. </blockquote> thank you <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  As someone who tries to learn every trick in the book to get my guys as powerful as i possibly can, i pride myself on the good ideas i have for nerfing myself <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Bozidar
06-08-2007, 12:15 PM
<cite>Wytie wrote:</cite><blockquote>hey thats a really good idea, IMO  but this still allows the folks who have already done it to still have the advantage so they never have to worry about anyone new being stronger than them, only flaw but still not a bad idea tho </blockquote><p> Implimented with the cap, i think it works fine.  Those that did it that are above the cap will still only have their cap AA to use.  And folks who do quests the right way with xp locked (avoiding debt) will still make it to or be near the cap.  This just REDUCES the number of players who make it to cap, and makes it harder to get there.</p><p>Do people get grandfatered in? sure... but you have to draw a line in the sand at some point.</p>

convict
06-08-2007, 12:16 PM
<cite>Wytie wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Xp gained from quests and discovery are filtered through the debt process.  Change this.  Apply quest and disco xp directly to xp totals and circumvent debt.  If people want to grind up debt so they can slowly kill mobs.. fine.. but it would no longer be used to grind out AA as well.  Would pve'rs cry?  Maybe.. but if you're going to apply the 1.5 AA limit i'm sure it's going to apply to PvE as well -- right?</p></blockquote>hey thats a really good idea, IMO  but this still allows the folks who have already done it to still have the advantage so they never have to worry about anyone new being stronger than them, only flaw but still not a bad idea tho </blockquote>I think the best way to help out new players, since we obviously need them, limit AA's and start pvp combat at 20. This gives new players time to figure out the game, know a little bit more about thier class, and thier not getting 1 shotted when they ding 10. Not to mention you'll have more than 2 ca's to fight with..

Badaxe Ba
06-08-2007, 12:21 PM
<p>I don't disagree with level locking, I disagree with those players who I see constantly allowing guards to kill them repeatedly in order to accumulate xp debt, as a way to avoid any leveling at all!</p><p>I have several alts, the lowest being a level 9 templar ATM.  Except for my main obviously, everyone is level locked for one reason or another.  It doesn't mean I don't advance them, because when a collection or quest finishes, up they go (except the lvl 9, for reasons of harvesting t1 transmutables with pvp immunity).</p><p>Using xp debt as a way to avoid natural advances due to completions of quests/collections/fame is to me an exploit.  I personally wuold prefer this to have negative faction consequences, where too many assaults on city guards would result in an aggroable situation, thereby making these types of players 'almost' exiles, having to accomplish city writs of some sort to regain faction with their home town. <img src="/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Of course, you'd still have players going out and 'killing themselves repeatedly' in some other fashion, such as drowning or running over and over into the lava in LS, for examples, but at least that situation would entail some risk, not the stay in your city 'pvp safe' situation as it is now.</p><p>I agree with those who say pvp faction gear requirements might need an adjustment, but not by much.  After all, if a toon is just played strictly for pvp requirements, not much leveling/questing is being done at all.  With the addition of AA points/bonuses, a possible solution might be gaining a level or two upon completing x amount of aa.</p><p>10-20, one level gained per 5 AA points, limit 5 levels.</p><p>20-30 one level gained per 5 AA points, limit 4 levels</p><p>30-40 one level gained per 5 AA points, limit 3 levels</p><p>40-50 one level gained per 5AA points, limit 2 levels</p><p>50-70 one level gained per 5AA points, limit 1 level</p><p><b><span style="color: #0033ff">Shouldn't the gaining of certain types of skills = an increase in level?  Before, new skills were always gained upon attaining a new level, and this would adjust the gameplay more back in line with that.  </span></b></p><p><b><span style="color: #0033ff">Possibly this could be tied to the completion of an AA skill bonus, such as when you unlock the next level in an AA tree, instead.  Thus allowing a player the choice to gradually increase their skills abilities, but rewarding upon completion by the addition of a level.</span></b></p><p>Some solution is needed to remove the ability of players to be 'rewarded' for accumulating xp debt as a way to avoid leveling.</p><p>GASP!  REWARD PLAYERS INSTEAD OF NERFING THEM!</p>

Wytie
06-08-2007, 12:22 PM
<cite>convict wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wytie wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>convict wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>How about you make it so people can't pick their chests back up while they're rez zerging over and over too? <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000">Dont fight at rez points..</span></p></blockquote><p>Hands down dumbest thing you've ever said... <i>Grats How about you dont post on forums or <b><span style="color: #ff3300">How about you dont roll a mage</span></b></i><b><span style="color: #ff3300">, or any other non scout class</span></b>. How would you like that as answer to your problems you wouldnt like it would you.</p><p>So dont bring that BS to an ovbious zerg problem and the thing is, most of these changes are for the better but in the end only will increase zerger further. Intill they solve that its just only gone make pvp more and more pointless.</p><p>Do you know how long it takes to revive and return to the fight even if its no where near a revive point you can still zerg exp if the fights will now last longer....<img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p></blockquote>What does playing a class have anything to do with zerging? Nothing.. Please take your own advice.. Not once have I had a problem with zerging.. If your killing them, then whats the problem? It sounds more like, I killed them, they zerged me and GOT THIER FAME BACK more than anything.. Maybe theres somewhere out there where EVERYONE pvp's at and just so happens its easy/fast to return to a fight that I dont usually fight at, but I have never had a problem with zerging... Granted, I dont eat and sleep eq2 either.. </blockquote><p>see it but either way it makes the fight pretty much pointless and promotes quick ganking   </p>

XeroXs84
06-08-2007, 12:23 PM
Everybody crying here.. "buhu i can hardly win now, how will it be after this nerf" dont forget, the ppl u fight get the nerf bat too.. the overall target is to make fights longer (and balance a few things out) thats a very good idea imho, and if they also adress overpowered healing with this (cos if u cant do as much damage u shouldnt be able to heal as much either, or furies, wardens and even the other healers will be top of the line after this), i am sure it will be great

Wytie
06-08-2007, 12:28 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>Everybody crying here.. "buhu i can hardly win now, how will it be after this nerf" dont forget, the ppl u fight get the nerf bat too.. the overall target is to make fights longer (and balance a few things out) thats a very good idea imho, and if they also adress overpowered healing with this (cos if u cant do as much damage u shouldnt be able to heal as much either, or furies, wardens and even the other healers will be top of the line after this), i am sure it will be great </blockquote>HA  this aint crying well at least not yet wait till everyone finds out just how much they really got nerfed then.... you will see some crying what you see now is discussion and worring out loud the crying hasnt even close to started yet this is only day #1 of a general idea wait my friend just wait hehehe

Badaxe Ba
06-08-2007, 12:32 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>Everybody crying here.. "buhu i can hardly win now, how will it be after this nerf" dont forget, the ppl u fight get the nerf bat too.. the overall target is to make fights longer (and balance a few things out) thats a very good idea imho, and <b><u><i>if</i></u></b> they also adress overpowered healing with this (cos if u cant do as much damage u shouldnt be able to heal as much either, or furies, wardens and even the other healers will be top of the line after this), i am sure it will be great </blockquote><p> If, being the key word.  Since heals aren't even mentioned, using IF as a placebo bone in order to placate those who are against these changes hardly shows <u>your humble opinion</u>, but only your ignorance on the difference class skills and how they are played.</p>

Bloodfa
06-08-2007, 12:35 PM
<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>Oh, that's a nice one there.  <i>That</i> would make a bit of difference to the lockers.  Especially the ones that are going to be rolling up new Wardens. </blockquote> thank you <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  As someone who tries to learn every trick in the book to get my guys as powerful as i possibly can, i pride myself on the good ideas i have for nerfing myself <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote><p> <span style="color: #0000ff">Bodizar hits Bodizar in the head with <b>Nerf Bat</b></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff3300">Bodizar takes 284 <b>Nerf Damage</b></span></p><p><span style="color: #0033ff">Bodizar suffers from <b>Gimping</b> (will be immune to future <b>Gimping</b> effects for 1 Game Update)</span></p>

Necodem
06-08-2007, 12:45 PM
<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote><ul><li>The effect on the Belt of Gateways has been changed from 100% riposte to 100% parry.  Additionally, its reuse has been reduced from one hour to 10 minutes.</li></ul></blockquote><p>Reduce parry to 10-20%, it's quite overpowered with 10min recast and 100% parry.</p>

Microbolt
06-08-2007, 01:10 PM
As an ranger, I would gladly give up all snares/stuns/roots/incombat run speed if they made it where we didn't have a <u>minimum range</u> on our Ranged CA's.  We <u><b>rely</b></u> on ranged to do any damage.  Our melee CA's are horrible.  By reducing the effectiveness of being able to keep the enemy atleast 2 meters from you will completely make the ranger class useless.  So with these changes it will be very difficult if even possible to keep enough range to even use our Ranged CA's at all.  Think its about time to switch classes...

shagr1414
06-08-2007, 01:14 PM
<cite>Gromann wrote:</cite><blockquote>All i have to say is that outright spell resists better be GREATLY reduced, because our damage is horrible as is in pvp, if you reduce it and it still gets resisted i think i will be throwing in the towel.  Mages have been dominated in T7 pvp since launch, with the exception of a couple weeks right after EoF, and from the looks of it this will only make it worse. One thing, when it comes to pvp does SOE really care about exiles?  Will a dev at least comment on whether we are going to get some pvp love(gear, etc.) or not?I mean, if its never going to happen at least say so, then we can quit griping about it, but we are just chuggin along hoping that someone will wake up and realize we make up a decent chunk of the T7 pvp population and when it comes to PvP we are completely ignored. That belt of gateways change just gave every Q and FP scout an "I Win" button vs exile melee classes every 10 minutes, instead of the 60minutes it was before. </blockquote>Do you lose status when you go exile? Not guild status I mean personal status, cause if you don't whats stopping you from choosing the aligned city where your pvp gear comes from go back to that city temporarily and get your pvp gear, then exile back? Noone forced ya into exile did they?  Unless you cannot take your gear back as exile I only see lsoing your masters being the major issue here, oh and a few minutes time to do the quests for betrayal and such.

Wytie
06-08-2007, 01:20 PM
<cite>shagr1414 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gromann wrote:</cite><blockquote>All i have to say is that outright spell resists better be GREATLY reduced, because our damage is horrible as is in pvp, if you reduce it and it still gets resisted i think i will be throwing in the towel.  Mages have been dominated in T7 pvp since launch, with the exception of a couple weeks right after EoF, and from the looks of it this will only make it worse. One thing, when it comes to pvp does SOE really care about exiles?  Will a dev at least comment on whether we are going to get some pvp love(gear, etc.) or not?I mean, if its never going to happen at least say so, then we can quit griping about it, but we are just chuggin along hoping that someone will wake up and realize we make up a decent chunk of the T7 pvp population and when it comes to PvP we are completely ignored. That belt of gateways change just gave every Q and FP scout an "I Win" button vs exile melee classes every 10 minutes, instead of the 60minutes it was before. </blockquote>Do you lose status when you go exile? Not guild status I mean personal status, cause if you don't whats stopping you from choosing the aligned city where your pvp gear comes from go back to that city temporarily and get your pvp gear, then exile back? Noone forced ya into exile did they?  Unless you cannot take your gear back as exile I only see lsoing your masters being the major issue here, oh and a few minutes time to do the quests for betrayal and such. </blockquote>your pvp gear doesnt work, and cant use ANY pvp items if your not allied with a city, you dont gain tokens as exile either, not sure about status but i dont think so there either.

shagr1414
06-08-2007, 01:23 PM
<cite>Lilithu wrote:</cite><blockquote>So, assassins can't assasinate now? Class defining skill is nerfed? You are basically telling us what we are not assassins anymore...</blockquote> Well lets add some lore into this.  Years ago an assassin ATTEMPTED to kill President Reagan and failed. Did you really beleive rolling an assassin was a simple Win win WIN char, did you not think you'd need some skill to play?

shagr1414
06-08-2007, 01:24 PM
<cite>Wytie wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>shagr1414 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gromann wrote:</cite><blockquote>All i have to say is that outright spell resists better be GREATLY reduced, because our damage is horrible as is in pvp, if you reduce it and it still gets resisted i think i will be throwing in the towel.  Mages have been dominated in T7 pvp since launch, with the exception of a couple weeks right after EoF, and from the looks of it this will only make it worse. One thing, when it comes to pvp does SOE really care about exiles?  Will a dev at least comment on whether we are going to get some pvp love(gear, etc.) or not?I mean, if its never going to happen at least say so, then we can quit griping about it, but we are just chuggin along hoping that someone will wake up and realize we make up a decent chunk of the T7 pvp population and when it comes to PvP we are completely ignored. That belt of gateways change just gave every Q and FP scout an "I Win" button vs exile melee classes every 10 minutes, instead of the 60minutes it was before. </blockquote>Do you lose status when you go exile? Not guild status I mean personal status, cause if you don't whats stopping you from choosing the aligned city where your pvp gear comes from go back to that city temporarily and get your pvp gear, then exile back? Noone forced ya into exile did they?  Unless you cannot take your gear back as exile I only see lsoing your masters being the major issue here, oh and a few minutes time to do the quests for betrayal and such. </blockquote>your pvp gear doesnt work, and cant use ANY pvp items if your not allied with a city, you dont gain tokens as exile either, not sure about status but i dont think so there either. </blockquote>Oh wow then i Agree this needs to be fixed then.  Not fair in any means to have 2 alignments in uber pvp gear then 1 not allowed.

Simera
06-08-2007, 01:30 PM
<cite>shagr1414 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Oh wow then i Agree this needs to be fixed then.  Not fair in any means to have 2 alignments in uber pvp gear then 1 not allowed. </blockquote> PVP is a bit better than raid gear but they have access to classes from both sides..sort of evens things out. 

NightSDtrider
06-08-2007, 01:31 PM
Bozidar wrote: <blockquote><p>this, btw, is one of the funniest things i've ever seen <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  <b>Tanks are supposed to be able to kill a rogues 1v1!</b> You're both melee classes, they have ways of increasing their health, and either wear much stronger armor or have much more avoidance than you.  The fact that you used to be able to kill warriors, crusaders and brawlers on a rogue is why pvp is broken at end game.</p><p><b>Running away when you see certain classes... THATS BALANCED PVP!</b></p><p>I really like the nerfs to en guarde, inspiration, dispatch, ect...<b> i felt that T7 rogues were out of control, and it's good to see them "corrected".</b>  It will be very interesting to see how things balance out at end-game now.  I think healers are going to become VERY powerful.. and not just druids</p></blockquote><p>On what grounds do you think that any class is "supposed" to be able to kill certain classes? Every class should have a fair chance against another really, that is balanced PvP. </p><p>Although that is a practically unachievable goal, it is still better than saying this class kills this class, this class kills that class. That just doesnt make sense.</p><p> Those nerfs to swashies arent really going to make an amazing difference when you consider they get 100% parry every 10 minutes now...</p><p> PS Loving the sig, i'll add you to the list of Fanboys when im next in game <img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p>

shagr1414
06-08-2007, 01:33 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>Note to devs- half the people who whine about other classes on PvP servers don't even really PvP, they just PvE all day. Penalizing PvPers because PvE-ers sometimes get killed on the way to their instances "too fast" for their taste when they probablylack the PvP skill to do anything anyways is ridiculous. In the game at the present time, there's a way to get past any ability that you're nerfing. </blockquote>Sir you are simply whining cause you are required to actually fight in pvp now. Your'e class has been reportedly called overpowered for a reason.  When you see countless complaints about a single class or a type of class the devs need to address issues.  If you don't like it you can always roll a rogue in WoW we won't sue ya or anything. We all pay the same amount every month for a broken game unless we are a scout. Before you rant off about the proposed changes, turn around rol  a mage, better yet a pet class.  Lvl to 70 get some fabled/legendary gear and pvp gear....get killed in less than 2-3 seconds every time a scout is around, and if not that fast 5 seconds while you either A) were trying to cast one spell but were perma stunned and it turned into a 10 second cast, or B)The spell actually casts and you see the RESIST sign pop over the scout's head. You might see this 1 or 2 times a week as a scout, so take your BS and find the door. you are now required to PLAY the game instead of being able to throw a few CA's into 2 macros and call yourself GOD.

Roald
06-08-2007, 01:36 PM
<p>WOW. I know, lets think about the most powerful classes to solo with sub T6-7. Thats right, Druids!</p><p>Lets see if we can make them stronger. Oh yea and why don't we make it a lot harder for rangers to range! And if we are doing that, why not make Sniper Shot line worse than it is?</p><p>Wait I've got a better idea, lets make it so that DPS classes can't dps anymore! And Brigs can't debuff!</p><p>Now wouldn't that be swell! What next, Only allow auto attack?</p><p>Only thing good about this is T7 resists</p>

Bozidar
06-08-2007, 01:38 PM
<cite>NightSDtrider wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>On what grounds do you think that any class is "supposed" to be able to kill certain classes? Every class should have a fair chance against another really, that is balanced PvP. </p><p>Although that is a practically unachievable goal, it is still better than saying this class kills this class, this class kills that class. That just doesnt make sense.</p><p> Those nerfs to swashies arent really going to make an amazing difference when you consider they get 100% parry every 10 minutes now...</p><p> PS Loving the sig, i'll add you to the list of Fanboys when im next in game <img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p></blockquote><p>Rock paper scissors, my friend.  Tanks beat scouts, clothies kill tanks, scouts kill clothies.  Healers kill everything (now). </p><p>You have a fair chance to beat the paper to your rock, but you need to be pretty [Removed for Content] good, and they probably need to suck a little bit.  Solo pvp is NOT what this game is about, that's why you have a archtype that should be able to get pwned by any player with his nemises archtype.  Get a group, protect your weaknesses.</p><p>The parry thing will be changed, the devs will listen.  1-hour recast will probably go back, and make it parry rather than riposte and your dps gets hit.  It's a good change, a great change, if they leave it at 1-hour.</p><p>Not sure what you mean about the fanboy remark.. but whatever.  You don't even know my toon's name, punchy.</p>

shagr1414
06-08-2007, 01:38 PM
<p>For now last but not least, I will leave all you scouts with one phrase.....</p><p><span style="font-size: xx-large"><span style="color: #cc0033">L2P!!!</span></span></p>

Necodem
06-08-2007, 01:39 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><cite>shagr1414 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Oh wow then i Agree this needs to be fixed then.  Not fair in any means to have 2 alignments in uber pvp gear then 1 not allowed. </blockquote> PVP is a bit better than raid gear but they have access to classes from both sides..sort of evens things out.  </blockquote> Wrong PVE have better stats, but less effects/procs and better set effects. For some class PVP armor effects will be better for other not.

Bozidar
06-08-2007, 01:40 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>WOW. I know, lets think about the most powerful classes to solo with sub T6-7. Thats right, Druids!</p><p>Lets see if we can make them stronger. Oh yea and why don't we make it a lot harder for rangers to range! And if we are doing that, why not make Sniper Shot line worse than it is?</p><p>Wait I've got a better idea, lets make it so that DPS classes can't dps anymore! And Brigs can't debuff!</p><p>Now wouldn't that be swell! What next, Only allow auto attack?</p><p>Only thing good about this is T7 resists</p></blockquote><p>Hmm... solo Inquis, templar, defiler or mystic > solo druid.  Druid might get away, but many times he won't, and less often now that in-combat run is nerfed.</p><p>But it ain't about solo pvp.. group pvp is where it's at <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  </p>

Darkor
06-08-2007, 01:41 PM
<cite>shagr1414 wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>Note to devs- half the people who whine about other classes on PvP servers don't even really PvP, they just PvE all day. Penalizing PvPers because PvE-ers sometimes get killed on the way to their instances "too fast" for their taste when they probablylack the PvP skill to do anything anyways is ridiculous. In the game at the present time, there's a way to get past any ability that you're nerfing. </blockquote>Sir you are simply whining cause you are required to actually fight in pvp now. Your'e class has been reportedly called overpowered for a reason.  When you see countless complaints about a single class or a type of class the devs need to address issues.  If you don't like it you can always roll a rogue in WoW we won't sue ya or anything. We all pay the same amount every month for a broken game unless we are a scout. Before you rant off about the proposed changes, turn around rol  a mage, better yet a pet class.  Lvl to 70 get some fabled/legendary gear and pvp gear....get killed in less than 2-3 seconds every time a scout is around, and if not that fast 5 seconds while you either A) were trying to cast one spell but were perma stunned and it turned into a 10 second cast, or B)The spell actually casts and you see the RESIST sign pop over the scout's head. You might see this 1 or 2 times a week as a scout, so take your BS and find the door. you are now required to PLAY the game instead of being able to throw a few CA's into 2 macros and call yourself GOD. </blockquote><p>WOOOOT, so [Removed for Content] well said, i couldnt have said it better!!!</p><p>I dont know what all the ranger crying is about with their snipershot dmg reduced. Only [Removed for Content] rangers rely on snipershot. The Rangers that kill me (and keep me down to Dreadnaught and not allow me to get General) dont use snipershot on me. To be honest I dont even remember when i got snipershotted lastly. Maybe certain rangers are doing something wrong or should think of a different way killing people. and i dont mean that "Waiting for snipershot to be up, hide somewhere and kill someone with some extreme burst dps, then evac all the way back to a safe location and wait for snipershot to be up again." Our Rangers on the Server, many being Generals surely dont need snipershot to kill most classes. Rangers and extremelly swashbucklers just need to get hit by this lovely nerf bait. Not even our Brigands in the guild are whining this much lol.</p><p>EDIT: Oh by the way, i forgot to mention i am a druid - yes a fury to be exactly. I just dont see the uberness atm as i get my [Removed for Content] handed by Swashys and rangers and sometimes even by Wizards and Illusionists.</p>

Echgar
06-08-2007, 01:46 PM
I would like to remind people that have feedback that it helps a great deal more when you focus on constructive feedback (pro or con) rather than posting digs at each other.  I have already had to remove several posts from this thread that were getting a bit personal with insults and such and would rather not have to keep moderating this type of behavior. Remember -- this thread is your opportunity to help the developers refine the planned changes before going live.  Don't give up this opportunity in favor of senseless bickering. As stated in the forum rules, you are welcome to disagree with others on the forums (including the developers), but do not turn your disagreement into personal attacks and insults. I have been happy to see so much good discussion in this thread so far so let's keep it coming! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Darkor
06-08-2007, 01:48 PM
<cite>Echgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>I would like to remind people that have feedback that it helps a great deal more when you focus on constructive feedback (pro or con) rather than posting digs at each other.  I have already had to remove several posts from this thread that were getting a bit personal with insults and such and would rather not have to keep moderating this type of behavior. Remember -- this thread is your opportunity to help the developers refine the planned changes before going live.  Don't give up this opportunity in favor of senseless bickering. As stated in the forum rules, you are welcome to disagree with others on the forums (including the developers), but do not turn your disagreement into personal attacks and insults. I have been happy to see so much good discussion in this thread so far so let's keep it coming! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote> Well said, and i do hope that Developers read the thread carefully as most of us do it too.

Neverborn
06-08-2007, 01:50 PM
These changes sound all targeted at 1v1 pvp... group fights will most likely come down to nothing more then running people OOP.... sounds [Removed for Content] boring. Belt on 10 minutes? Are you out of your effing minds? Give exiles PVP gear or me and the majority of my guild won't be here by the time the next expansion hits.

Qanil
06-08-2007, 01:51 PM
<p>while some of the changes here might seem a bit harsh, I think most of them have merit.  Someone said earlier that these changes seem to cater to the solo'er more, but I disagree.   Scouts were the top dogs on this server, and will still continue to be.  They have track and evac.  Those two abilities are the most overpowered in the game.  Because those skills don't kill people outright doesn't mean they aren't.</p><p>The changes are actually going to have the reverse effect.  It seems that people are losing sight on the fact that this is an MMORPG, multiplayer game.. you're supposed to group, and you're supposed to have distinct roles here to be successful.  Scouts have it all at the moment, there really isn't any reason for many other classes.  A couple of druids and assorted scouts can kill 95% of the pvp encounters at the moment.  What is "good" about that, and what promotes a "community" atmosphere?  If you take away some of the dominance of these solo type classes, it'll force more grouping, so in fact it's catering more to the group mentality.  Right?</p><p>Fights have not lasted long enough.  It was the exception to the rule to fun into another group and actually run out of power before the fight was over.  It is sad to see the state of the game, and tokens pushing the game to more "solo friendly" game play.  It's not a first person shooter people, it's a game where you're supposed to group up.   People having these overpowered classes, rolling them after the fact, because most of them just "gave up."   wouldn't it be a better more fulfilling gaming experience where YOUR decisions made you a good player instead of a good portion of the time it just being "because of your class?"</p><p>Let's all do a testcopy and own each other and complain after the fact.  Until we have a chance to try these changes, nobody will ever know.</p><p>Oh on the pvp belt?  if you wont take it out of the game please make it a parry on 1 hour.  10 minutes is stupid.</p>

Amphibia
06-08-2007, 02:05 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>These changes and past changes seem to be moving towards the goal of "longer" fights.  In actuality it seems to me that reducing the effectiveness of snares/roots/etc. and reducing the amount of damage that can be done, in order to "mak[e] player vs player combat somewhat more equitable" because "fights are frequently far too short" will encourage one thing:  more running.  More successful running. And with the removal of most in combat run speeds, it will be more running before the fight even begins. And on top of that, we've all experienced, I'm sure, trying to catch that group that is running away, an you have to cast at them to slow them down.  Now, once you do that, you'll drop to zero percent run speed, while they retain all their speed buffs. Why are runners rewarded?  And for that matter, why can't I chase someone on a griff?  What am I, stupid?  I'm too angry to correctly hail the griffon tamer?  Does he get mad at me because I run up the tower swinging my sword in his face, and at his griffon as the enemy jumps on.  Is he mad because I grab him by the front of his tunic and yell "HAIL GRIFFON TAMER!!  GET ME ON A [I cannot control my vocabulary] GRIFFON NOW YOU TODDERING FEN-SUCKED DEWBERRY!!!" "Not until you calm down," he replied to me. </blockquote>QFE <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> If they allowed people to chase on clouds while in combat, PvP in KoS would be much more fun. Right now it sucks, tbh. Imo.... <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Harbringer Doom
06-08-2007, 02:21 PM
<cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote>QFE <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> If they allowed people to chase on clouds while in combat, PvP in KoS would be much more fun. Right now it sucks, tbh. Imo.... <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote> Don't be silly. It's impossible to successfully navigate the use of a cloud when you hate someone with the burning fire of a thousand suns. Once you calm down, you'll remember how to use the platform.

Microbolt
06-08-2007, 02:21 PM
<cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>These changes and past changes seem to be moving towards the goal of "longer" fights.  In actuality it seems to me that reducing the effectiveness of snares/roots/etc. and reducing the amount of damage that can be done, in order to "mak[e] player vs player combat somewhat more equitable" because "fights are frequently far too short" will encourage one thing:  more running.  More successful running. And with the removal of most in combat run speeds, it will be more running before the fight even begins. And on top of that, we've all experienced, I'm sure, trying to catch that group that is running away, an you have to cast at them to slow them down.  Now, once you do that, you'll drop to zero percent run speed, while they retain all their speed buffs. Why are runners rewarded?  And for that matter, why can't I chase someone on a griff?  What am I, stupid?  I'm too angry to correctly hail the griffon tamer?  Does he get mad at me because I run up the tower swinging my sword in his face, and at his griffon as the enemy jumps on.  Is he mad because I grab him by the front of his tunic and yell "HAIL GRIFFON TAMER!!  GET ME ON A [I cannot control my vocabulary] GRIFFON NOW YOU TODDERING FEN-SUCKED DEWBERRY!!!" "Not until you calm down," he replied to me. </blockquote>QFE <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> If they allowed people to chase on clouds while in combat, PvP in KoS would be much more fun. Right now it sucks, tbh. Imo.... <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote><p> I agree chasing would be nice, but an side effect would be anyone could fly even if engaged.  Maybe they could do it where you can fly as long as you don't have any mutual hate accumlated for anyone. </p><p>Example:</p><p>1. Player A hits Player B.   Player B flys.  Player A shold be able to fly since Player B didn't hit back.</p><p>2. Player A hits Player B.  Player B hits Player A.  Neither Player can fly now because they have mutual hate.</p><p>3 Player A hits Player B and Player C.  Player B hits Player A.  Player A and Player B cannot fly because they have mutal Hate but Player C can fly because didn't return fire.</p>

Broccoliswo
06-08-2007, 02:23 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>These changes sound all targeted at 1v1 pvp... group fights will most likely come down to nothing more then running people OOP.... sounds [I cannot control my vocabulary] boring. Belt on 10 minutes? Are you out of your effing minds? Give exiles PVP gear or me and the majority of my guild won't be here by the time the next expansion hits. </blockquote>You already willingly gave up the opportunity for PvP gear when you wnt exile. all of us who went exile did, and complaining about how it's unfair is ridiculous when you knew what you were getting into before you did it. As for Maliak's comments about longer fights, people are just going to complain when they're having some of these "wonderful" long fights that the dev's want to see, and then another group jumps in and beats the [Removed for Content] out of them cause it didn't end in a decent amount of time. PvP isn't going to be about skill, it will be about luck and zerging. Grats devs.

Qanil
06-08-2007, 02:27 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>As for Maliak's comments about longer fights, people are just going to complain when they're having some of these "wonderful" long fights that the dev's want to see, and then another group jumps in and beats the [I cannot control my vocabulary] out of them cause it didn't end in a decent amount of time. PvP isn't going to be about skill, it will be about luck and zerging. Grats devs. </blockquote><p>We'll see how it works out.  I'm not sold on all the changes, but something needed to be done.  Will they get it right?  Probably not, but I hope so, let's go to the test server and help them figure it out.</p>

Harbringer Doom
06-08-2007, 02:30 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote> <p> I agree chasing would be nice, but an side effect would be anyone could fly even if engaged.  Maybe they could do it where you can fly as long as you don't have any mutual hate accumlated for anyone. </p><p>Example:</p><p>1. Player A hits Player B.   Player B flys.  Player A shold be able to fly since Player B didn't hit back.</p><p>2. Player A hits Player B.  Player B hits Player A.  Neither Player can fly now because they have mutual hate.</p><p>3 Player A hits Player B and Player C.  Player B hits Player A.  Player A and Player B cannot fly because they have mutal Hate but Player C can fly because didn't return fire.</p></blockquote>Sure, change your post as I was about to reply.... But yeah, that sounds about right.

Bozidar
06-08-2007, 02:32 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>These changes sound all targeted at 1v1 pvp... group fights will most likely come down to nothing more then running people OOP.... sounds [I cannot control my vocabulary] boring. Belt on 10 minutes? Are you out of your effing minds? Give exiles PVP gear or me and the majority of my guild won't be here by the time the next expansion hits. </blockquote><p> I'd really like to know why it is that you're demanding pvp gear as an exile.  If your guild wants pvp gear, choose a city.  If you want to have raid groups composing of the right combination of classes, stay exile.  </p><p>I no longer think Exiles have it easy, and have some respect for those that do it.  But when you ask for an improvment to your lot in life after CHOOSING your lot in life, you come off as hypocrites.</p>

Microbolt
06-08-2007, 02:35 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote> <p>I agree chasing would be nice, but an side effect would be anyone could fly even if engaged.  Maybe they could do it where you can fly as long as you don't have any mutual hate accumlated for anyone. </p><p>Example:</p><p>1. Player A hits Player B.   Player B flys.  Player A shold be able to fly since Player B didn't hit back.</p><p>2. Player A hits Player B.  Player B hits Player A.  Neither Player can fly now because they have mutual hate.</p><p>3 Player A hits Player B and Player C.  Player B hits Player A.  Player A and Player B cannot fly because they have mutal Hate but Player C can fly because didn't return fire.</p></blockquote>Sure, change your post as I was about to reply.... But yeah, that sounds about right. </blockquote>hehe, as soon as i hit submit thought of a better idea <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Didn't think anyone would of read my original post yet or would or made new one =D

Qanil
06-08-2007, 02:40 PM
<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>These changes sound all targeted at 1v1 pvp... group fights will most likely come down to nothing more then running people OOP.... sounds [I cannot control my vocabulary] boring. Belt on 10 minutes? Are you out of your effing minds? Give exiles PVP gear or me and the majority of my guild won't be here by the time the next expansion hits. </blockquote><p> I'd really like to know why it is that you're demanding pvp gear as an exile.  If your guild wants pvp gear, choose a city.  If you want to have raid groups composing of the right combination of classes, stay exile.  </p><p>I no longer think Exiles have it easy, and have some respect for those that do it.  But when you ask for an improvment to your lot in life after CHOOSING your lot in life, you come off as hypocrites.</p></blockquote><p> The EoF pvp gear is NOTHING like what a good portion of the exiles decided they would leave behind.  This armor came out after the fact.  It's grossly exaggerated by anyone to say that the gear doesn't make the player.  The older PvP gear that was out when Darkhand decided to Exile was ok, but was comparable to KoS raid zone loot, if even that.   </p><p>PvP gear is there to reward people for PvP'ing and allowing them to stay competitive without having to raid their lives away.  Its the only explanation.  I severely doubt it was put in the game to "reward people for staying in a city" or to "help detract people from exiling"  to suggest this is completely and utterly ignorant.</p>

Broccoliswo
06-08-2007, 02:48 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>These changes sound all targeted at 1v1 pvp... group fights will most likely come down to nothing more then running people OOP.... sounds [I cannot control my vocabulary] boring. Belt on 10 minutes? Are you out of your effing minds? Give exiles PVP gear or me and the majority of my guild won't be here by the time the next expansion hits. </blockquote><p> I'd really like to know why it is that you're demanding pvp gear as an exile.  If your guild wants pvp gear, choose a city.  If you want to have raid groups composing of the right combination of classes, stay exile.  </p><p>I no longer think Exiles have it easy, and have some respect for those that do it.  But when you ask for an improvment to your lot in life after CHOOSING your lot in life, you come off as hypocrites.</p></blockquote><p> The EoF pvp gear is NOTHING like what a good portion of the exiles decided they would leave behind.  This armor came out after the fact.  It's grossly exaggerated by anyone to say that the gear doesn't make the player.  The older PvP gear that was out when Darkhand decided to Exile was ok, but was comparable to KoS raid zone loot, if even that.   </p><p>PvP gear is there to reward people for PvP'ing and allowing them to stay competitive without having to raid their lives away.  Its the only explanation.  I severely doubt it was put in the game to "reward people for staying in a city" or to "help detract people from exiling"  to suggest this is completely and utterly ignorant.</p></blockquote>Not really, look at how exile was supposed to be at the start: a temporary stage. It had no guild registrar, no black market, no menders, no banks, no tradeskill area, etc. People whined about it and they got that, creating the perfect place to stay if one is interested in raiding. Those in cities have no way to get the exact same raid gear (especially after nerfs). When you exiled, you knew you weren't getting any PvP gear. Just because they put more in, you should've expected that if they didn't give you the older PvP gear, they probably weren't going to give you the new PvP gear, either. Furthermore, many exiles (actually, the vast majority) exiled AFTER they knew about EoF PvP gear, hence whining about it is pretty sad. You're not going to  get everything, or everyone would be exile.

Aeralik
06-08-2007, 02:50 PM
I'm going to reset the belt to 60 minute reuse <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> 

Groma
06-08-2007, 02:51 PM
Thank god, any word on Exiles and future plans?

Wytie
06-08-2007, 02:53 PM
<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm going to reset the belt to 60 minute reuse <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  </blockquote> majority rules hehe, we give yall a hard time but its clear you do listen.... sometimes except for zerging <img src="/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Sanchez469
06-08-2007, 03:00 PM
Brocollisword hehe now you see how a defiler feels or goes through when we try to solo and other people jumps in on us-- in regards to your statement about longer fights.  When my dps doesnt even touch the 1k mark for my highest damage and plus its disease/poison based in which inmho is the highest avg resist that everyone has.

convict
06-08-2007, 03:01 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>These changes sound all targeted at 1v1 pvp... group fights will most likely come down to nothing more then running people OOP.... sounds [I cannot control my vocabulary] boring. Belt on 10 minutes? Are you out of your effing minds? Give exiles PVP gear or me and the majority of my guild won't be here by the time the next expansion hits. </blockquote>You already willingly gave up the opportunity for PvP gear when you wnt exile. all of us who went exile did, and complaining about how it's unfair is ridiculous when you knew what you were getting into before you did it. As for Maliak's comments about longer fights, people are just going to complain when they're having some of these "wonderful" long fights that the dev's want to see, and then another group jumps in and beats the [I cannot control my vocabulary] out of them cause it didn't end in a decent amount of time. PvP isn't going to be about skill, it will be about luck and zerging. Grats devs. </blockquote><p>I still dont see why anyone would be for 3 second fights.. Longer fights mean people will use some skill in deciding what ca's/spells to use, potions etc.. I've seen fights last 1 shot and 2 shots.. What is fun in that, other than I know the 2 classes you play can do it.</p><p>Why do fights have to be 2 seconds long? If someone else comes along and helps the person your fighting, then I guess thats pvp isn't it? You make it sound like you HAVE to kill said person in 1 or 2 seconds or its no fun.. I sure hope this has nothing to do with kvd ratio or titles... </p>

TXMoonglo
06-08-2007, 03:12 PM
<p>I think many of these changes were needed in PVP. I don't really see how the AA changes will affect T2 PVP much..which is where the help is definately needed. If I turn off combat exp..and do not kill myself to guards to gain debt I can gain about 14-15 AA's by lvl 17. If I gain debt I can get more AA's than 14 at lvl 17. The AA cap should definately scale more as levels are gained or as someone posted debt should be ignored by the game in quest/discovery xp.</p><p>Personally I am tired of coming upon a small group of blues or whites with me being duoed with a swashie and getting rolled over in 1 sec flat because they have the fabled/Masters and tons of AA's. As a newer player on the PVP server that has got to be the most frustrating thing. I truely hope the devs take a hard look at T2 PVP and try to head the player skill based route instead of AA's/Masters/Fabled wins all route that is evidently in PVP now. Not saying that gear/AA's shouldn't make a difference but it makes too much of one now.</p><p> I also hope the devs took a good look at Harm Touch as I myself experienced at lvl 13 HT by a yellow SK in Vermin's Snye. I got hit for 920 hps worth of dmg and only had 528 hps...buffed. Someone tell me how that is possible??</p><p> I play a warden because I loved the class in PVE and enjoy it in PVP. In PVP combat I can hold my own to a yellow player but not to a group of 2 or more players. Maybe it's my skill at PVP since I see others say they can take on groups etc. In a duo with a Swashie we can usually take out a group of 3 or 4 yellows but it is in no way a guaranteed win. Many times I run out of power before the fight is done. I am sure the devs will be looking at the healing power of priests with the other changes in effect and will adjust things accordingly.</p><p> My experience is also limited to T2 PVP so my comments are in no way refering to anything higher than T2. I am at least looking forward to these changes coming even if they mean the healing power of wardens is reduced.</p>

Groma
06-08-2007, 03:15 PM
The solution is pretty simple to fix T2-T3 pvp twinking.  Make 1 or 2 no lockout instances with no named mobs in them(or named mobs with no loot table) and give the non twinks a place to grind thru it without having to worry about noob ganking twinks.

Bozidar
06-08-2007, 03:16 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>The EoF pvp gear is NOTHING like what a good portion of the exiles decided they would leave behind.  This armor came out after the fact.  It's grossly exaggerated by anyone to say that the gear doesn't make the player.  The older PvP gear that was out when Darkhand decided to Exile was ok, but was comparable to KoS raid zone loot, if even that.    <p>PvP gear is there to reward people for PvP'ing and allowing them to stay competitive without having to raid their lives away.  Its the only explanation.  I severely doubt it was put in the game to "reward people for staying in a city" or to "help detract people from exiling"  to suggest this is completely and utterly ignorant.</p></blockquote><p> So go back?  You get tokens as an exile, do you not?  Get your tokens you need,and go to the city you desire.</p><p>I'm not saying that pvp gear was in the game for anything, i'm making no such claims.  But it's a fact that pvp gear was in the game, and only faction aligned, before you decided to exile.  Period.  So you didn't like the gear at that time.. did you ask for better gear or did you want to exile to get more pvp targets for yourself, and form better raids for both pve and pvp?  Be honest.  You left faction advantages behind for new advantages.  When you ask for those faction advantages back w/o giving anything up -- you're.... whining.  You can get those faction advantages back, you just have to sacrifice your exile advantages for them.</p>

Bozidar
06-08-2007, 03:17 PM
<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm going to reset the belt to 60 minute reuse <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  </blockquote><p> This is what i'm talking about, fellow forumers.  These are reasonable and intelligent people.  They're going to do the right thing, just give them a chance and give them good feedback.</p><p>Bravo, aeralik.</p>

Bozidar
06-08-2007, 03:20 PM
<cite>Gromann wrote:</cite><blockquote>The solution is pretty simple to fix T2-T3 pvp twinking.  Make 1 or 2 no lockout instances with no named mobs in them(or named mobs with no loot table) and give the non twinks a place to grind thru it without having to worry about noob ganking twinks. </blockquote><p>There are such instances, but <i>true</i> newb don't know them, and shouldn't be forced to grind in an instance instead of enjoying the early content and learning the lore of the game and their class.</p><p>starting pvp lvl 20.. starting pvp faction 0, instead of -10k.  </p>

Armawk
06-08-2007, 03:20 PM
<p>Im so not qualified to judge most of the class changes... but see nothing insane (bit worried about furies being overpowered but we will see)</p><p>But do we have any chance of something happening about the mounts?</p>

CresentBlade
06-08-2007, 03:21 PM
<cite>seigwahrheit wrote:</cite><blockquote>Guys im an assassin and ive never ever one hitted an even con at 70 and im pretty well geared.. But thats just something i wanted to throw in to the arguement pot. I'll take a nerf; i can see some of these changes are necessary but there are 2 MAJOR negatives that should be addressed. 1) Firstly and foremostly the PVP belt should be removed from the game (I can say that cos im city aligned and scout class to use it) NOT reduced in timers that is truly stupid. 2) Also nerf the healers or they will simply rule all; furies can hit harder than i can with less of a recast, and wardens can already outheal most classes, with this new update all the swashies are just gonna reroll druids; (well actually no theyve got the belt on a 10 min timer now) Well thats my thoughts on the subject anyhow </blockquote>Scouts have been king of pvp since launch will be nice to see another class wear the mantle for a little.

CresentBlade
06-08-2007, 03:23 PM
<cite>Istaril wrote:</cite><blockquote>Some <b>very</b> welcome changes there. Swash nerfs, runspeed nerfs... etc. Very much looking forward to a few more details on these. However, anything I say will obviously be dismissed by most as 'you're a templar, you're gaining from all this'... But I think before pouncing on the "nerf heals", keep in mind that the intent here (as stated in the original post) is to slow down combat and allow skill a greater opportunity to make the difference. Heals are one of the best ways of ensuring this happens in a manner that is based on player skill. That doesn't mean that an overall reduction in damage without touching heals will be ideal - but before people jump on the nerf heals immediately bandwagon, please take a chance and test it out. By increasing group pvp dependence on heals/healers, dynamics and speed of pvp fights could change considerably - and that could indeed be a good thing. </blockquote>Let them say all they want, its about time templars get some loving<img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Bozidar
06-08-2007, 03:23 PM
<cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Im so not qualified to judge most of the class changes... but see nothing insane (bit worried about furies being overpowered but we will see)</p><p>But do we have any chance of something happening about the mounts?</p></blockquote><p>An excellent question about the mounts.  Make them scale to level.  At lvl 70 200 resists is pretty much pointless.  At lvl 10, it's just a <i>touch</i> overpowered.</p><p>how much % resists is 200 at say.. lvl 35?  What if we make all mount abilities scale to the advantages that a mid-level toon would have.  So if at lvl 35 200 resists is 10%.. then those mounts just give 10% resists. (i don't have actual numbers).  If it's +8 to slashing and parry and whatnot.. make that scale to level as well. </p><p>The mounts are cool, but they shouldn't have no level requirement (or any requirement besides a friend from China) and at the same time not scale.  That's OP, and broken. </p>

Ibunubi
06-08-2007, 03:31 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>These changes sound all targeted at 1v1 pvp... group fights will most likely come down to nothing more then running people OOP.... sounds [I cannot control my vocabulary] boring. Belt on 10 minutes? Are you out of your effing minds? Give exiles PVP gear or me and the majority of my guild won't be here by the time the next expansion hits. </blockquote>You already willingly gave up the opportunity for PvP gear when you wnt exile. all of us who went exile did, and complaining about how it's unfair is ridiculous when you knew what you were getting into before you did it. As for Maliak's comments about longer fights, people are just going to complain when they're having some of these "wonderful" long fights that the dev's want to see, and then another group jumps in and beats the [I cannot control my vocabulary] out of them cause it didn't end in a decent amount of time. PvP isn't going to be about skill, it will be about luck and zerging. Grats devs. </blockquote><p>Are you seriously forgetting they exiled before any mention of EoF? People don't have problems with the original PvP rewards with the exception of the PvP belt + swashbuckler, which will be changed anyway.</p><p>Personally, I like most of these changes, and I can give a little bit more feedback since I have a little bit of time. I'm just typing this based on first impressions, I already have my character on PvP Test.</p><ol><li><b><u>In-combat runspeed</u></b> -- Are people able to still Sprint in PvP combat? If so, how are classes with enhanced sprints affected? Furies especially, will have problems running away (if they need to) *NOT* engaged because when they are attacked... casting Pact of the Cheetah puts them into PvP combat, even though they never engaged. This will become a problem with the few bugs that put people into combat, such as wards on mages.</li><li><b><u>Damage reductions across the board </u></b>-- It looks as if these changes are an attempt to reduce the amount of "ganking" and increase the amount of "fighting," where it's not the class that beats you, but the player behind the class. I'm a mage and a coercer, so I'm biased in favor of this change.</li><li><b><u>Evade and Deaggro abilities (plus Taunt and Aggro abilities)</u></b> -- I have no knowledge about monks in EQ2, but I will comment on the change currently listed for them; I'm not going to rag on it but expand upon the idea. I've made a post about this already, almost 1 year ago (Titled "Normalize all deaggro and taunt abilities&quot<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />, so here's the short version... Every class has abilities to reduce aggro and their own versions of "Evade;" however, only scouts received the benefit of these abilities to work in PvP Combat. I suggest spreading this benefit to all classes, especially mages. Coercer "Link" line should have a 5% chance to clear target on damage like rangers and troubadors. Illusionist "Synergism" should have a *percent chance* to clear target like the scout's deaggro poison. I say percent chance because the proc itself triggers a lot during a fight, so on top of the buff's chance to trigger, add an additional chance to clear target... say 10%. I have more examples but I'm running out of space for this topic.</li><li><b><u>Brigand nerf... again</u></b> -- If you're reducing the amount of CAs a brigand can Double Up, then the debuff reduction seems overkill and unnecessary. But... If you really want to reduce their debuffs AGAIN, then I would suggest their debuffs scale to the archetype they are fighting. "If fighter... Reduce mitigation by 1700." ... "If priest... Reduce mitigation by 1100" .. Etc. Similar to how the Warlock's "Curse of Isolation" scales to the difficulty of the mob you are fighting.</li><li><b><u>Coercer's Cataclysmic Mind</u></b> -- The only time this spell is actually useful is for people who Sprint away while this spell is on them. When they sprint, it hits as hard as Decapitate, Pestilent Touch, Ice Nova, Fusion, etc and unresistible. That's fair enough to reduce the damage if people still have the ability to sprint in PvP combat (why I asked in #1). But if people no longer have the ability to sprint in PvP combat, then this change is not necessary.</li><li><b><u>Belt of Gateways and Desperado's Waistband</u></b> -- The change from 100% riposte to 100% parry is a step in the right direction. However, the reduction in the reuse to 10 minutes is 3 steps backward. Don't reduce the reuse time on this belt.</li><li><b><u>Healers</u></b> -- With the reduction in damage, everybody is concerned healers will become invincible. Because of this shared thought, I would suggest adding a recast timer to all healers' single target cures. Let's say, a 2 second recast to their cures. I figure since a lot of these changes seem to be balancing solo gameplay, this cure suggestion would be a small but significant change for balance.</li></ol>

CresentBlade
06-08-2007, 03:35 PM
<cite>shagr1414 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>For now last but not least, I will leave all you scouts with one phrase.....</p><p><span style="font-size: xx-large"><span style="color: #cc0033">L2P!!!</span></span></p></blockquote><p>You now owe me a new monitor and need to come over my house and clean all the soda off the desk and walls.</p><p><img src="/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p>

Qanil
06-08-2007, 03:36 PM
<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> <b>So go back?  You get tokens as an exile, do you not?  Get your tokens you need,and go to the city you desire.</b></p><p>No.. you don't.  You can get tokens only if you kill someone that was already engaged with a city aligned person. </p><p><b>I'm not saying that pvp gear was in the game for anything, i'm making no such claims.  But it's a fact that pvp gear was in the game, and only faction aligned, before you decided to exile.  Period.  So you didn't like the gear at that time.. did you ask for better gear or did you want to exile to get more pvp targets for yourself, and form better raids for both pve and pvp?  Be honest.  You left faction advantages behind for new advantages.  When you ask for those faction advantages back w/o giving anything up -- you're.... whining.  You can get those faction advantages back, you just have to sacrifice your exile advantages for them.</b></p><p>There are several flaws in this logic.  If I go back to a city I lose all my masters.  If I go to a city that wasn't mine to start with, depending on which toon I'm on at the time I could lose all my gear, masters and be forced to learn a new class.   The people in exile are my friends, it's my guild, and to suggest that I either a) leave them behind, or b) force them to move to a class is absurd.  I am being honest when I say I came to exile to PvP more... I like the people there.  It is fun.  I didn't come to exile to raid.  Some in my guild enjoy it. I'd say the vast majority would like to do it about 10% of the amount we do it now.  We do it because its a necessity to be competitive.  The suggestion that Raiding for EoF gear is just as easy as getting PvP gear is absurd.  I have thought about going back to a faction, but the drawbacks are greater than the gains.  You lose so much PvP if you go to a city.  Yes, it's true.  I'm here to PvP, and have a good time doing it.  NOt getting owned in the face because of the gear descrepancies.</p><p>Explain to me my "exile advantages"  Please.  I'd really love to hear them, since obviously you know nothing about it considering your first statement above.  The suggestion that the ability for an Exile faction to form a raid with all the classes for PvP and it giving any noticeable advantage is absurd.   Other than our style of PvP, and being able to kill anyone we want whenever we want, what are our advantages?  Truly you must have them figured out or you wouldn't make such bold statements as you did above.  A successful raid week for us means that maybe 4 people (MAYBE) get a piece of EoF set armor.. for how many endless hours of raiding?  Its not even a close argument here.  That same time that we would be out and about PvP'ing how many people would get gear?  People would be rewarded for PvP'ing, which is the point isn't it?</p><p>I would be happy with making the PvP gear for Exiles 3-5 times as expensive in tokens as the city stuff.  Make it difficult but not impossible to obtain gear without FORCING us to raid.   </p><p>This thread is about the upcoming changes.  I won't address this topic in this thread again.</p></blockquote>

CresentBlade
06-08-2007, 03:40 PM
<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm going to reset the belt to 60 minute reuse <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  </blockquote> Aeralik when stuff needs to get done your the BESTEST CODER in the whole big wide world.

MablungTSL
06-08-2007, 03:52 PM
I love the proposed changes.  As someone who solos in all Tiers for PvP it is frustrating to find someone solo who a) runs or b) zone hops.  Nobody wants to go 1 v 1 anymore.  Its all about 3, 4 or 5 ganking 1 or 2 people.  Now I dont have a problem with ganking, its just that playing on a pvp server you would think there would be more pvp instead of infamy/status farm groups roaming around looking for the next mob (me) to tally up on. Second, the biggest problem with tier 2 and tier 3 pvp is the allowance of AAs.  Before EoF I think pvp was much more balanced.  Sure you had your twinks but AAs make too big of a difference in fights at those levels.  You can have same gear, same masters and adept IIIs but if you are lacking in AAs then you are hosed.  I think 1.5 is still to much.  I would rate it at 1 per level after level 10.

Bozidar
06-08-2007, 03:55 PM
<cite>MablungTSL wrote:</cite><blockquote>I love the proposed changes.  As someone who solos in all Tiers for PvP it is frustrating to find someone solo who a) runs or b) zone hops.  Nobody wants to go 1 v 1 anymore.  Its all about 3, 4 or 5 ganking 1 or 2 people.  Now I dont have a problem with ganking, its just that playing on a pvp server you would think there would be more pvp instead of infamy/status farm groups roaming around looking for the next mob (me) to tally up on. Second, the biggest problem with tier 2 and tier 3 pvp is the allowance of AAs.  Before EoF I think pvp was much more balanced.  Sure you had your twinks but AAs make too big of a difference in fights at those levels.  You can have same gear, same masters and adept IIIs but if you are lacking in AAs then you are hosed.  I think 1.5 is still to much.  I would rate it at 1 per level after level 10. </blockquote><p> It's a group game, you'll figure it out sooner than you like.  You think it's tough rolling solo now, wait until you try to kill a guy who you used to be able to burn fast and get away.. and he doesn't go down.  And folks have even MORE time to catch you before you kill him.. and you can't zone.. or use in-combat run to get away (as easily).</p><p>People who roam in groups killing people aren't "farming" fame/status.. they're killing people who haven't figured out how to play the game right yet, or got caught with their pants down <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Or having great group vs group fights.. </p>

Microbolt
06-08-2007, 04:03 PM
<p>Any Idea when the GU36 notes may be coming out?   Because you indicated that there were a few PvE changes that would effect PvP.  Might help us see the big picture on the balance.</p>

lost
06-08-2007, 04:39 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> <b>So go back?  You get tokens as an exile, do you not?  Get your tokens you need,and go to the city you desire.</b></p><p>No.. you don't.  You can get tokens only if you kill someone that was already engaged with a city aligned person. </p><p><b>I'm not saying that pvp gear was in the game for anything, i'm making no such claims.  But it's a fact that pvp gear was in the game, and only faction aligned, before you decided to exile.  Period.  So you didn't like the gear at that time.. did you ask for better gear or did you want to exile to get more pvp targets for yourself, and form better raids for both pve and pvp?  Be honest.  You left faction advantages behind for new advantages.  When you ask for those faction advantages back w/o giving anything up -- you're.... whining.  You can get those faction advantages back, you just have to sacrifice your exile advantages for them.</b></p><p>There are several flaws in this logic.  If I go back to a city I lose all my masters.  If I go to a city that wasn't mine to start with, depending on which toon I'm on at the time I could lose all my gear, masters and be forced to learn a new class.   The people in exile are my friends, it's my guild, and to suggest that I either a) leave them behind, or b) force them to move to a class is absurd.  I am being honest when I say I came to exile to PvP more... I like the people there.  It is fun.  I didn't come to exile to raid.  Some in my guild enjoy it. I'd say the vast majority would like to do it about 10% of the amount we do it now.  We do it because its a necessity to be competitive.  The suggestion that Raiding for EoF gear is just as easy as getting PvP gear is absurd.  I have thought about going back to a faction, but the drawbacks are greater than the gains.  You lose so much PvP if you go to a city.  Yes, it's true.  I'm here to PvP, and have a good time doing it.  NOt getting owned in the face because of the gear descrepancies.</p><p>Explain to me my "exile advantages"  Please.  I'd really love to hear them, since obviously you know nothing about it considering your first statement above.  The suggestion that the ability for an Exile faction to form a raid with all the classes for PvP and it giving any noticeable advantage is absurd.   Other than our style of PvP, and being able to kill anyone we want whenever we want, what are our advantages?  Truly you must have them figured out or you wouldn't make such bold statements as you did above.  A successful raid week for us means that maybe 4 people (MAYBE) get a piece of EoF set armor.. for how many endless hours of raiding?  Its not even a close argument here.  That same time that we would be out and about PvP'ing how many people would get gear?  People would be rewarded for PvP'ing, which is the point isn't it?</p><p>I would be happy with making the PvP gear for Exiles 3-5 times as expensive in tokens as the city stuff.  Make it difficult but not impossible to obtain gear without FORCING us to raid.   </p><p>This thread is about the upcoming changes.  I won't address this topic in this thread again.</p></blockquote> </blockquote>If exiles get pvp gear, the cities need to have all of the classes available, simple as that.  As it is, when/if exiles get pvp gear, there is absolutely no reason to have your guild city aligned anymore assuming you bring crafters along to keep your guild stocked with potions/totems/food. The argument that pvp gear is easier to get than pve mostly relates to scouts obtaining it by ganking people, whereas grouping reliant classes are finally starting to realize full sets now.  Compare that to blue servers where the raiding guilds have most people with 5+ pieces and various alts in the same picture, and I would argue now that exiled guilds are finally starting to get the pve content in eof on farm status, that the rate both pve and pvp can acquire sets of armor is roughly similar (besides the scouts and select few others who solo all day).   Yeah, its unfortunate that you have to raid successfully to compete with the city aligned pvpers gearwise, but its hardly like the change snuck up all the sudden.  At the end of KoS, the exiles had the best gear, and I'm sure at the end of EoF, they will have the best gear again too.  I'm sure at the beginning of RoK, city aligned players will get a headstart on gear, and by the time the next expansion comes around, exiles will have surpassed them yet again.  At this point it should be obvious that the exile faction offers ffa pvp and access to all classes at the expense of pvp rewards--if pvp and pvp rewards are more important to a player than raiding, they should probably stay city aligned.

shagr1414
06-08-2007, 04:40 PM
Hey on a side note in reference to pet classes....why does the necro undead tide have to deagro completely when someone FD or deagro's?  This is one major ability necros have to use in pvp, and yet its on a 15 minute timer, and easily deagro'd to uselessness.  Oh and one last thing, either give all classes evac or remove the spell completely.  Makes no sense that the top dogs in game can evac yet most casters cannot.  We're the most vulnerable of the classes as it is, but we got no choice to stand and fight....no runspeed buffs, no evac = dead mage.   

Dude
06-08-2007, 04:49 PM
<p>Seemingly the dev is actually listening to what we have to say, but really...</p><p>Im a swashy, so i dont know why im saying this, but it is cruel to make Double up 1s last dmg instead of 2s... it is not needed, brigs DONT do as much dmg as a swashy... no need to make them totally [Removed for Content], its one of the only fights i enjoy /sad</p>

NightSDtrider
06-08-2007, 04:49 PM
<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>NightSDtrider wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>On what grounds do you think that any class is "supposed" to be able to kill certain classes? Every class should have a fair chance against another really, that is balanced PvP. </p><p>Although that is a practically unachievable goal, it is still better than saying this class kills this class, this class kills that class. That just doesnt make sense.</p><p> Those nerfs to swashies arent really going to make an amazing difference when you consider they get 100% parry every 10 minutes now...</p><p> PS Loving the sig, i'll add you to the list of Fanboys when im next in game <img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p></blockquote><p>Rock paper scissors, my friend.  Tanks beat scouts, clothies kill tanks, scouts kill clothies.  Healers kill everything (now). </p><p>You have a fair chance to beat the paper to your rock, but you need to be pretty [I cannot control my vocabulary] good, and they probably need to suck a little bit.  Solo pvp is NOT what this game is about, that's why you have a archtype that should be able to get pwned by any player with his nemises archtype.  Get a group, protect your weaknesses.</p><p>The parry thing will be changed, the devs will listen.  1-hour recast will probably go back, and make it parry rather than riposte and your dps gets hit.  It's a good change, a great change, if they leave it at 1-hour.</p><p>Not sure what you mean about the fanboy remark.. but whatever.  You don't even know my toon's name, punchy.</p></blockquote><p>I dont pay the subscription fee for a glorified game of rock paper scissors, there still needs to be an element of skill, and when its just a case of one class being able to kill another class in the majority of situations, theres not much skill involved. </p><p>I'm not saying that isnt necessarily how it is now, but it certainly isnt how it "should" be, as you put it, thats what im saying.</p><p>Glad to see the belt being put back to up to one hour tho. </p><p>I do know your in game toon, and you know mine, however my sig is out of date, and tbh, im too lazy to update it atm. I dont wanna go into it in this thread really because its not relevant, was just making a joke, but feel free to look at my alts on eq2players. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Siphar
06-08-2007, 04:56 PM
<p>Why change the coercer spell Cata. Mind? Sure they use it for runners, but "WHO" runs from a coercer? lolz..</p><p>I mean seriously, unless they are ina  group, in which case all they are doing is adding power regen and don't need to use it.. why else would anyone "not" run from a coercer.</p><p>I think the coders need to also look at making coercers a little more useful as far as PvP is concerned. Mainly in grps but also hey.. why not a little solo pvp.. </p><p>My suggestion would be to have no immunity to the control spells from enchanters, more like base them off the resist of the enemy with a max of 3 durations etc ? /shrug /sleep</p>

Bozidar
06-08-2007, 04:58 PM
<cite>NightSDtrider wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I dont pay the subscription fee for a glorified game of rock paper scissors, there still needs to be an element of skill, and when its just a case of one class being able to kill another class in the majority of situations, theres not much skill involved. </p><p>I'm not saying that isnt necessarily how it is now, but it certainly isnt how it "should" be, as you put it, thats what im saying.</p><p>Glad to see the belt being put back to up to one hour tho. </p><p>I do know your in game toon, and you know mine, however my sig is out of date, and tbh, im too lazy to update it atm. I dont wanna go into it in this thread really because its not relevant, was just making a joke, but feel free to look at my alts on eq2players. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p></blockquote><p> If you play solo pvp, then yes.. you're paying a subscription fee for a glorified game of rock paper schissors.  Of course there is an ELEMENT of skill, and gear, and other variables.  But it comes down to that in solo pvp certain classes play horribly against others.  Their strengths match up with your weaknesses, and your strengths match up with their best defenses.</p><p>This is fine.. it's SOLO.  Group pvp is where this game is balanced.  If you're looking for balance and equality in solo pvp, go play a FPS.  I hear BF has a nice new game out.</p>

Aeralik
06-08-2007, 05:15 PM
In other news, Debt is being removed from pvp servers.

Foretold
06-08-2007, 05:17 PM
Wow this just gets wilder and wilder <img src="/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

OmniDrac
06-08-2007, 05:17 PM
<p>You sir are a good listener.....I like it and don't mind any of the whine posts that follow.  </p><p>I would say....I love you...but I would then have to PvP you...</p>

Bozidar
06-08-2007, 05:17 PM
<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>In other news, Debt is being removed from pvp servers. </blockquote><p> THAT'S what i'm talking about.  WELL DONE!!!!!!!</p><p>ok, now tell us that you're going to fix the bug where you can turn in a quest dead for AA and zero xp. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

OmniDrac
06-08-2007, 05:20 PM
<p>Oh...and that scream you hear...is just 1000s of level lockers all crying out in unison.....</p><p>Mommy....why!!!!</p><p>Keep up the good work!!</p><p>Now make me a PvP Gi that I can wear that allows me to track......</p><p>...edit... fine .. fine... allows me to evac.</p>

Bozidar
06-08-2007, 05:20 PM
<cite>OmniDrac wrote:</cite><blockquote>don't mind any of the whine posts that follow.  </blockquote><p>I don't know if you noticed this or not, but i haven't seen a single whine post about the level locking fixes that didn't consist of "not enough, needs more attention".  I haven't seen any level-lockers themselves whining... unlike swashies and brigs <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p>

OmniDrac
06-08-2007, 05:22 PM
<p>More of a General ... you know they are inc...not pointed as us happy PVP people...</p><p>Lets not get crazy. </p>

PsycoSWG
06-08-2007, 05:28 PM
<p>So then what is being done about the 3-set bonus to furies?</p><p>It's a god damned pvp server and you're making our 3-set pvp armor bonus only useful in PVE. If you're not going to change the set bonus then why even give us a 3-set bonus on fury pvp armor? You guys are so damned worthless when changing things like this, jees.</p>

Beagest
06-08-2007, 05:30 PM
if you wanna stop mid teens ganking noobs AA nerfing all tiers isnt the way to go imo....it isnt the aa thats killing them its the gear differences i think pvp starts at lvl 10 BUT rewards like fame, faction ect starts at lvl 20 this allows newbies to learn how to pvp without gank revive gank revive gank revive log off just my opinion  =]

PsycoSWG
06-08-2007, 05:32 PM
<p>And while you're at it, what's being done about ranged auto-attack damage?</p><p>Rangers can auto-attack you for 1k+ damage at range. I don't see how that didn't need a nerf but double-up somehow did need one?</p>

Aeralik
06-08-2007, 05:35 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>And while you're at it, what's being done about ranged auto-attack damage?</p><p>Rangers can auto-attack you for 1k+ damage at range. I don't see how that didn't need a nerf but double-up somehow did need one?</p></blockquote>That is part of the tweaking damage by level range.  High level ranged damage was tuned down in general.  Again its easily tweakable if its still too high so feel free to submit feedback on it.

OmniDrac
06-08-2007, 05:37 PM
<p>Not sure if this was addressed...but</p><p>What about Healing not being scaled down to PvP stats vs our Damage?  </p>

PsycoSWG
06-08-2007, 05:41 PM
<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>And while you're at it, what's being done about ranged auto-attack damage?</p><p>Rangers can auto-attack you for 1k+ damage at range. I don't see how that didn't need a nerf but double-up somehow did need one?</p></blockquote>That is part of the tweaking damage by level range and also there are some pve arrow changes coming. </blockquote><p> Ok while I have your attention..lol..</p><p>Are furies going to get a new set bonus to their pvp armor? Right now it gives us 15% runspeed, quite useful..but due to the upcoming change you're making that bonus on our PVP ARMOR useful only in PVE. That doesn't sit right with me.</p>

Magius789
06-08-2007, 05:44 PM
<p>I can only comment as a ranger since my main is one.  So our in combat speed increase through the AA line is now what exactly?  other than worthless, having it work out of combat is dumb considering thats what our increased pathfinding does.  Removing the rangers ability to gain distance on their target is only going to result in one thing.  There is going to be a LARGE increase in rangers that sit in places that are not accessible by normal means and picking people off while not being able to be attacked themselves.  Maybe replace that in combat speed increase that is worlthess with an AA ability that reduces the min. distance or else in PvP rangers are now cannon fodder and basically worhtless.</p><p> As for sniper shot I don't care, compared to other classes 15 min. abilities its at the buttom of the list.  Takes to long to cast and ultimately gets more into trouble than it anything else. </p><p>It's your job as a Dev to listen to the community and weed out what are the real problems and who are the complainers.  Pretty soon we'll all be playing the same class just like what happened in SWG and we all saw how that turned out.  I'd love these dev's to come sit in on some of my college classes about business; Grade F+.   You got the plus for effort, which is kinder than most of my professors FYI.  They don't give +'s.</p>

OmniDrac
06-08-2007, 05:48 PM
<p>This is a good change Privan.  </p><p>You can still run away if you don't engage buddy.  </p><p>You also get to pick your targets and they will not be the wiser when you pluck them from far and run in for the kill just like you learned way back...</p><p>Remember back...when you had to know melee skills......remember?</p><p>No...oh well.  </p>

Qanil
06-08-2007, 05:49 PM
<cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I can only comment as a ranger since my main is one.  So our in combat speed increase through the AA line is now what exactly?  other than worthless, having it work out of combat is dumb considering thats what our increased pathfinding does.  Removing the rangers ability to gain distance on their target is only going to result in one thing.  There is going to be a LARGE increase in rangers that sit in places that are not accessible by normal means and picking people off while not being able to be attacked themselves.  Maybe replace that in combat speed increase that is worlthess with an AA ability that reduces the min. distance or else in PvP rangers are now cannon fodder and basically worhtless.</p><p> As for sniper shot I don't care, compared to other classes 15 min. abilities its at the buttom of the list.  Takes to long to cast and ultimately gets more into trouble than it anything else. </p><p>It's your job as a Dev to listen to the community and weed out what are the real problems and who are the complainers.  Pretty soon we'll all be playing the same class just like what happened in SWG and we all saw how that turned out.  I'd love these dev's to come sit in on some of my college classes about business; Grade F+.   You got the plus for effort, which is kinder than most of my professors FYI.  They don't give +'s.</p></blockquote>What a sad individual you must be.  Don't insult the guy he's at least listening to us.  Go to the test server, try it out then make constructive criticism based up on what you experienced instead of barking at someone that is trying to correct some of the larger injustices of the current PvP system.  So what if they're making it harder for you to gank people.  so what.

myrdhyn
06-08-2007, 05:50 PM
<p>If these changes go in then they definately need to give all classes a full respec that allows them to switch points between trees.</p><p> Some of these changes are huge.  For example.  I have 8 points in my Fury Tree for the incombat run speed specifically.  I did this for pvp.  I am fine with the change.  I think that incombat run speed is bs.  But if I wouldn't have had this choice I would have put the points in the druid tree instead.</p><p> If I am unable to respec these 8 points it will be 8 useless points for me as I don't need to spend them anywhere in the Fury Tree.  Every ability I need in the fury tree is already maxed out.</p><p> I think overall the changes are a great idea.  Balance is important and long overdue.  But these changes will be very disappointing if I can't respec between my two tree's.  Especially since I have way less AA's then the 1.5x aa cap.</p>

OmniDrac
06-08-2007, 05:56 PM
<cite>myrdhyn wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>If these changes go in then they definately need to give all classes a full respec that allows them to switch points between trees.</p></blockquote><p> There is not enough cookies for us to bribe him to do this.   I do not think it is something that can be done without "bigger picture" and "issues". </p><p>But if for some reason he could....OMG, he could become my PLP.  </p><p>/wink</p>

MaNiaGG84
06-08-2007, 05:58 PM
<cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>Level locking has also been a hot topic on the forums over the past few months.  It's also a very tricky subject to handle.  <span style="color: #cc0000">Gaining equipment and better quality spells is something we encourage players to do and this is something everyone should still strive to do.  </span> Achievements on the other hand can be easily obtained and quickly add to the power of your character.  The extreme cases of this, where people end up with an inordinately large number of achievements for their level, yields them to have an unbeatably strong advantage in PvP combat.  <span style="color: #cc0000">In order to mitigate the effects this, characters will be limited to spending 1.5 times their current level within the achievement trees.</span>  You can still gain points above this limit and spend them later on as you level.  Once these changes go live, all characters who are over the new Achievement Per Level cap will be given the opportunity to respec their points on their first login. </blockquote>So all those level 14 twinks will be able to keep all their twink equipment and have a maximum for 21aa. Most twinks at 14 only have about 15 or 16aa anyway. In T3 PvP it is rare to find people with more than 30aa at lvl 20 or 45aa at lvl30. What this does affect is T4 PvP where I have seen a lot of charactors with 60+ aa in the mid 30s. My lvl36 warden with 61aa will be capped at 54aa and mr battlemage here with 65aa at lvl38 will be capped at 57aa. This does nothing to stop low level noob bashing and punishes the wrong people in T4 and T5 who worked hard to better themselves in a highly competitive tier which I have yet to here one complaint about. Please consider the root cause to noob ganking in EQ2 PvP. It is done because it is highly rewarding in the form of uber factional gear. I know because I have done it myself with 3 active twinks that all started off by ganking noobs by the score full. I agree that it is wrong because it is destroying the population of these servers. Is what needs to be done is alternative ways need to be provided other than ganking noobs for faction. I suggest a few PvP based writs and quests that give faction in T2 towards the first peice of gear at lvl20. These quests/writs can be something simple like spy on the enemy without getting killed for 500 faction or go slay a slayer for 1500 faction. Tier 2 PvP should be the easiest for a new player to get into but in reality it is the hardest and it is slowly ruining the game. </blockquote> My 25 Swash has got 52 AA's which means he will lose 14 points which took me several weeks to get, hardcore camping every fekking named and stuff. Gonna cancel my account the second time now and won't come back this time, cause this is darn lame.

The_Real_Ohno
06-08-2007, 06:01 PM
<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>And while you're at it, what's being done about ranged auto-attack damage?</p><p>Rangers can auto-attack you for 1k+ damage at range. I don't see how that didn't need a nerf but double-up somehow did need one?</p></blockquote>That is part of the tweaking damage by level range.  High level ranged damage was tuned down in general.  Again its easily tweakable if its still too high so feel free to submit feedback on it. </blockquote><p>So I hope melee auto attack dmg will be in line with ranged auto attack dmg with delays and such.  </p><p>Also Id like to know 2 things Aeralik if u can explain, since roots/snares are gettin there duration reduced, are u gonna allow Rangers Ranged CAs to be casted on the move? I know our counter part does not have to stand still to cast any of there CAs ie Assassins.  </p><p>2nd are u going to give the classes that get hit with the root/snare nerfs a free respec?  As of right now, once this goes live, I have 21 AAs that imo are now useless in PvP.  </p><p>Thanks. </p>

Aeralik
06-08-2007, 06:01 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote> My 25 Swash has got 52 AA's which means he will lose 14 points which took me several weeks to get, hardcore camping every fekking named and stuff. </blockquote> Just to reiterate you do not lose any points at all.  They remain on your character but if you hit the cap you can no longer spend them until you gain additional levels. 

Wytie
06-08-2007, 06:05 PM
<cite>myrdhyn wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>If these changes go in then they definately need to give all classes a full respec that allows them to switch points between trees.</p></blockquote> <span style="color: #ff0000">Oh i so agree some people choose trees only for incombat run speeds not fair to take that away and not allow them to be placed in another tree which is prob what they would have done if this change had been made before teh AA's were gained </span>

OmniDrac
06-08-2007, 06:07 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>Novusod wrote: My 25 Swash has got 52 AA's which means he will lose 14 points which took me several weeks to get, hardcore camping every fekking named and stuff. Gonna cancel my account the second time now and won't come back this time, cause this is darn lame.</blockquote>See you at level 35 with one of my alts when you decide to read and stop being a carebear.

Magius789
06-08-2007, 06:07 PM
Rangers don't and can't melee.  We have about 5 melee abilites and the dmg on them wouldn't even total 1.5k.  I don't gank groups and I fight people on lvl ground as oppossed to sitting in the tree tops.  Trust me I'm not the type of ranger you people hate.  I didn't complain about dmg reduction, I'm addressing the concerns of my ability to gain distance on the target once engaged because 90% of our CA's don't work within a close distance to the target.  None of your characters are penelized for actually fighting near your target, however rangers are.  All I'm saying is now it will be VERY easy to run up to a ranger and STAY within that min. distance and make the ranger completely worthless.  I applaud there attempt at fixing pvp but merely addressing the dmg a ranger does would be more constructive than removing our abilities, in a sense, to even attack the target.  They didn't nerf our dmg so much as in a round about way removed it almost all together.  My F+ was in regards to ranger changes.  Besides it shows they didn't think things through to much as an example of the PvP belt, they've already changed it back to the way it was because of how people have posted.

The_Real_Ohno
06-08-2007, 06:07 PM
Is this even on the Test server yet?  Last update notes show May 29th.  Theres ppl tryin to set up some testin, but if its not even on test yet, wastin there time.

myrdhyn
06-08-2007, 06:08 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>And while you're at it, what's being done about ranged auto-attack damage?</p><p>Rangers can auto-attack you for 1k+ damage at range. I don't see how that didn't need a nerf but double-up somehow did need one?</p></blockquote>That is part of the tweaking damage by level range.  High level ranged damage was tuned down in general.  Again its easily tweakable if its still too high so feel free to submit feedback on it. </blockquote><p>So I hope melee auto attack dmg will be in line with ranged auto attack dmg with delays and such.  </p><p>Also Id like to know 2 things Aeralik if u can explain, since roots/snares are gettin there duration reduced, are u gonna allow Rangers Ranged CAs to be casted on the move? I know our counter part does not have to stand still to cast any of there CAs ie Assassins.  </p><p>2nd are u going to give the classes that get hit with the root/snare nerfs a free respec?  As of right now, once this goes live, I have 21 AAs that imo are now useless in PvP.  </p><p>Thanks. </p></blockquote>Wow.  I would cancel my account as well if I had that many aa's and had that kill vs death ratio.  This change will not effect me since I have crap for AA's... like 28sh.

The_Real_Ohno
06-08-2007, 06:10 PM
U quote the wrong post? LOL!

Aeg
06-08-2007, 06:11 PM
<p>Bravo devs!</p><p>these are the best changes ive seen to the game since the pvp servers opened. scout have had a nerf coming for a long time and finally it might actually take genuine skill to play the classes. this will bring some classes closer in so they can finally compete with the formerly strong pvp classes. </p><p>awesome work! now buff paladins! =D</p>

myrdhyn
06-08-2007, 06:11 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>U quote the wrong post? LOL!</blockquote> As a matter of fact I did.  I am noob!

myrdhyn
06-08-2007, 06:15 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>Level locking has also been a hot topic on the forums over the past few months.  It's also a very tricky subject to handle.  <span style="color: #cc0000">Gaining equipment and better quality spells is something we encourage players to do and this is something everyone should still strive to do.  </span> Achievements on the other hand can be easily obtained and quickly add to the power of your character.  The extreme cases of this, where people end up with an inordinately large number of achievements for their level, yields them to have an unbeatably strong advantage in PvP combat.  <span style="color: #cc0000">In order to mitigate the effects this, characters will be limited to spending 1.5 times their current level within the achievement trees.</span>  You can still gain points above this limit and spend them later on as you level.  Once these changes go live, all characters who are over the new Achievement Per Level cap will be given the opportunity to respec their points on their first login. </blockquote>So all those level 14 twinks will be able to keep all their twink equipment and have a maximum for 21aa. Most twinks at 14 only have about 15 or 16aa anyway. In T3 PvP it is rare to find people with more than 30aa at lvl 20 or 45aa at lvl30. What this does affect is T4 PvP where I have seen a lot of charactors with 60+ aa in the mid 30s. My lvl36 warden with 61aa will be capped at 54aa and mr battlemage here with 65aa at lvl38 will be capped at 57aa. This does nothing to stop low level noob bashing and punishes the wrong people in T4 and T5 who worked hard to better themselves in a highly competitive tier which I have yet to here one complaint about. Please consider the root cause to noob ganking in EQ2 PvP. It is done because it is highly rewarding in the form of uber factional gear. I know because I have done it myself with 3 active twinks that all started off by ganking noobs by the score full. I agree that it is wrong because it is destroying the population of these servers. Is what needs to be done is alternative ways need to be provided other than ganking noobs for faction. I suggest a few PvP based writs and quests that give faction in T2 towards the first peice of gear at lvl20. These quests/writs can be something simple like spy on the enemy without getting killed for 500 faction or go slay a slayer for 1500 faction. Tier 2 PvP should be the easiest for a new player to get into but in reality it is the hardest and it is slowly ruining the game. </blockquote> My 25 Swash has got 52 AA's which means he will lose 14 points which took me several weeks to get, hardcore camping every fekking named and stuff. Gonna cancel my account the second time now and won't come back this time, cause this is darn lame.</blockquote><p>Wow.  I would cancel my account as well if I had that many aa's and had that kill vs death ratio.  This change will not effect me since I have crap for AA's... like 28sh.  </p><p> Ok.  I quoted the right post this time. =) </p>

The_Real_Ohno
06-08-2007, 06:15 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>And while you're at it, what's being done about ranged auto-attack damage?</p><p>Rangers can auto-attack you for 1k+ damage at range. I don't see how that didn't need a nerf but double-up somehow did need one?</p></blockquote>That is part of the tweaking damage by level range.  High level ranged damage was tuned down in general.  Again its easily tweakable if its still too high so feel free to submit feedback on it. </blockquote><p>So I hope melee auto attack dmg will be in line with ranged auto attack dmg with delays and such.  </p><p>Also Id like to know 2 things Aeralik if u can explain, since roots/snares are gettin there duration reduced, are u gonna allow Rangers Ranged CAs to be casted on the move? I know our counter part does not have to stand still to cast any of there CAs ie Assassins.  </p><p>2nd are u going to give the classes that get hit with the root/snare nerfs a free respec?  As of right now, once this goes live, I have 21 AAs that imo are now useless in PvP.  </p><p>Thanks. </p></blockquote>B4 we get another 3 pages, have a min to answer Aeralik?

Aeralik
06-08-2007, 06:16 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>Is this even on the Test server yet?  Last update notes show May 29th.  Theres ppl tryin to set up some testin, but if its not even on test yet, wastin there time.</blockquote>It's not there yet but should be there early next week.  The initial post was meant to give a heads up on the changes for some initial feedback and reactions as well as to give you a chance to copy if you haven't already.

deepruntramp
06-08-2007, 06:17 PM
Bravo, some great changes across the board.  I just hope healing in PvP gets a similar tune-down to keep it proportional to damage. 1.5 AA per CLevel still seems a bit high-ish, though.  May I suggest just a flat 1 per CLevel, with the cap coming off completely at level 60?

convict
06-08-2007, 06:17 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>Level locking has also been a hot topic on the forums over the past few months.  It's also a very tricky subject to handle.  <span style="color: #cc0000">Gaining equipment and better quality spells is something we encourage players to do and this is something everyone should still strive to do.  </span> Achievements on the other hand can be easily obtained and quickly add to the power of your character.  The extreme cases of this, where people end up with an inordinately large number of achievements for their level, yields them to have an unbeatably strong advantage in PvP combat.  <span style="color: #cc0000">In order to mitigate the effects this, characters will be limited to spending 1.5 times their current level within the achievement trees.</span>  You can still gain points above this limit and spend them later on as you level.  Once these changes go live, all characters who are over the new Achievement Per Level cap will be given the opportunity to respec their points on their first login. </blockquote>So all those level 14 twinks will be able to keep all their twink equipment and have a maximum for 21aa. Most twinks at 14 only have about 15 or 16aa anyway. In T3 PvP it is rare to find people with more than 30aa at lvl 20 or 45aa at lvl30. What this does affect is T4 PvP where I have seen a lot of charactors with 60+ aa in the mid 30s. My lvl36 warden with 61aa will be capped at 54aa and mr battlemage here with 65aa at lvl38 will be capped at 57aa. This does nothing to stop low level noob bashing and punishes the wrong people in T4 and T5 who worked hard to better themselves in a highly competitive tier which I have yet to here one complaint about. Please consider the root cause to noob ganking in EQ2 PvP. It is done because it is highly rewarding in the form of uber factional gear. I know because I have done it myself with 3 active twinks that all started off by ganking noobs by the score full. I agree that it is wrong because it is destroying the population of these servers. Is what needs to be done is alternative ways need to be provided other than ganking noobs for faction. I suggest a few PvP based writs and quests that give faction in T2 towards the first peice of gear at lvl20. These quests/writs can be something simple like spy on the enemy without getting killed for 500 faction or go slay a slayer for 1500 faction. Tier 2 PvP should be the easiest for a new player to get into but in reality it is the hardest and it is slowly ruining the game. </blockquote> My 25 Swash has got 52 AA's which means he will lose 14 points which took me several weeks to get, hardcore camping every fekking named and stuff. <b><span style="color: #ff0000">Gonna cancel my account</span></b> the second time now and won't come back this time, cause this is darn lame.</blockquote><p> Bye.... These are the types of people who lock that I want to see out the door. Why cant you compete without God mode? Level 25 with 52, thats just crazy overpowered.. Might as well let us pvp while we mentor. Same thing..</p><p>To bad changes like this werent done sooner, like a year ago.. People got spoiled in thier easy mode ways, and these changes are going to effect thier titles and kvd so we may hear even more whining before it hits test. Good job on the changes btw, just keep an eye on druids...</p>

OmniDrac
06-08-2007, 06:21 PM
<cite>deepruntramp wrote:</cite><blockquote>Bravo, some great changes across the board.  I just hope healing in PvP gets a similar tune-down to keep it proportional to damage. 1.5 AA per CLevel still seems a bit high-ish, though.  May I suggest just a flat 1 per CLevel, with the cap coming off completely at level 60? </blockquote><p> The .5 is to keep you guess how many AA someone may have vs...ok that's a 30 ..that has 30.   (guess)</p><p>And why can't you just be happy..... damm people always have something to add..</p><p>So how about that Healing in PvP vs our Damage Ratio? </p><p>The Druid PvP gear effect for that guy...</p><p>The Respect to any tree you wish?  </p><p>/hugs</p>

Novusod
06-08-2007, 06:22 PM
Well I logged onto PvP test this morning and my warden still had all 61of aa usable at 36. So if that change has not gone through I doubt any other changes have updated either.

MaNiaGG84
06-08-2007, 06:22 PM
<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote> My 25 Swash has got 52 AA's which means he will lose 14 points which took me several weeks to get, hardcore camping every fekking named and stuff. </blockquote> Just to reiterate you do not lose any points at all.  They remain on your character but if you hit the cap you can no longer spend them until you gain additional levels.  </blockquote><p> Sure, I am pretty aware of that. The thing is, I was enjoying to do every quest i could get my hands on, farming dumb mobs for dropped quests, camping named mobs that give 1% AA for hours and stuff like that.</p><p>In the evening I went out there for an hour or two and pvp'ed when I couldn't quest anymore because of players interrupting me too often. It would be kinda dumb to keep my playstyle because I don't get any reward in form of AA at all ( or better put, I can't spend them) and I won't start grinding up levels so i can use my AA, it's just not the playstyle I enjoy.</p><p>Had a blast playing EQ2 for 2 1/2 yrs now but this change ruins my fun, period. I understand that many ppl cry for nerfs on the level lockers and they got what they wanted. I just think it's wrong to punish players to really get the BEST out of their chars, what you do with that change.</p>

myrdhyn
06-08-2007, 06:24 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>And while you're at it, what's being done about ranged auto-attack damage?</p><p>Rangers can auto-attack you for 1k+ damage at range. I don't see how that didn't need a nerf but double-up somehow did need one?</p></blockquote>That is part of the tweaking damage by level range.  High level ranged damage was tuned down in general.  Again its easily tweakable if its still too high so feel free to submit feedback on it. </blockquote><p>So I hope melee auto attack dmg will be in line with ranged auto attack dmg with delays and such.  </p><p>Also Id like to know 2 things Aeralik if u can explain, since roots/snares are gettin there duration reduced, are u gonna allow Rangers Ranged CAs to be casted on the move? I know our counter part does not have to stand still to cast any of there CAs ie Assassins.  </p><p>2nd are u going to give the classes that get hit with the root/snare nerfs a free respec?  As of right now, once this goes live, I have 21 AAs that imo are now useless in PvP.  </p><p>Thanks. </p></blockquote>B4 we get another 3 pages, have a min to answer Aeralik? </blockquote><p>NOTE: This is not an official SOE response.  I would like to answer on behalf of Aeralik even though I have no right to do so.  I would like to repeat that these comments do not reflect the views of Sony Online Entertainment in any way whatsoever.</p><p>We at SOE (I would like to remind you that I am in no way affiliated with SOE =P  I hope that we are allowed to have a sense of humor though on the forums) have not even begun to think about how these changes might effect AA specs.  The initial post was meant to give a heads up on the changes for some initial feedback and reactions as well as to give you a chance to copy if you haven't already.  We may or may not give this issue consideration depending on how long we have to implement these changes before they go live.  We appreciate your monthly subscription fee however and encourage you not to cancel your account. </p>

MaNiaGG84
06-08-2007, 06:26 PM
<cite>convict wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>Level locking has also been a hot topic on the forums over the past few months.  It's also a very tricky subject to handle.  <span style="color: #cc0000">Gaining equipment and better quality spells is something we encourage players to do and this is something everyone should still strive to do.  </span> Achievements on the other hand can be easily obtained and quickly add to the power of your character.  The extreme cases of this, where people end up with an inordinately large number of achievements for their level, yields them to have an unbeatably strong advantage in PvP combat.  <span style="color: #cc0000">In order to mitigate the effects this, characters will be limited to spending 1.5 times their current level within the achievement trees.</span>  You can still gain points above this limit and spend them later on as you level.  Once these changes go live, all characters who are over the new Achievement Per Level cap will be given the opportunity to respec their points on their first login. </blockquote>So all those level 14 twinks will be able to keep all their twink equipment and have a maximum for 21aa. Most twinks at 14 only have about 15 or 16aa anyway. In T3 PvP it is rare to find people with more than 30aa at lvl 20 or 45aa at lvl30. What this does affect is T4 PvP where I have seen a lot of charactors with 60+ aa in the mid 30s. My lvl36 warden with 61aa will be capped at 54aa and mr battlemage here with 65aa at lvl38 will be capped at 57aa. This does nothing to stop low level noob bashing and punishes the wrong people in T4 and T5 who worked hard to better themselves in a highly competitive tier which I have yet to here one complaint about. Please consider the root cause to noob ganking in EQ2 PvP. It is done because it is highly rewarding in the form of uber factional gear. I know because I have done it myself with 3 active twinks that all started off by ganking noobs by the score full. I agree that it is wrong because it is destroying the population of these servers. Is what needs to be done is alternative ways need to be provided other than ganking noobs for faction. I suggest a few PvP based writs and quests that give faction in T2 towards the first peice of gear at lvl20. These quests/writs can be something simple like spy on the enemy without getting killed for 500 faction or go slay a slayer for 1500 faction. Tier 2 PvP should be the easiest for a new player to get into but in reality it is the hardest and it is slowly ruining the game. </blockquote> My 25 Swash has got 52 AA's which means he will lose 14 points which took me several weeks to get, hardcore camping every fekking named and stuff. <b><span style="color: #ff0000">Gonna cancel my account</span></b> the second time now and won't come back this time, cause this is darn lame.</blockquote><p> Bye.... These are the types of people who lock that I want to see out the door. Why cant you compete without God mode? Level 25 with 52, thats just crazy overpowered.. Might as well let us pvp while we mentor. Same thing..</p><p>To bad changes like this werent done sooner, like a year ago.. People got spoiled in thier easy mode ways, and these changes are going to effect thier titles and kvd so we may hear even more whining before it hits test. Good job on the changes btw, just keep an eye on druids...</p></blockquote><p>EVERYBODY is able to do that. I started from scratch several weeks ago on Nagafen and like 99% I achieved i did solo or with the help of my GF sitting next to me. You'r just too lazy to do so and get rewarded therefor. </p>

Deceiv
06-08-2007, 06:27 PM
      I am a lv 70 fury with 55 percent in combat run speed, that is where my true power comes from..... but I welcome these changed even though I will get a nerf.The changes are for the best. Good job devs. keep up the good work. <img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

myrdhyn
06-08-2007, 06:28 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><cite>convict wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>Level locking has also been a hot topic on the forums over the past few months.  It's also a very tricky subject to handle.  <span style="color: #cc0000">Gaining equipment and better quality spells is something we encourage players to do and this is something everyone should still strive to do.  </span> Achievements on the other hand can be easily obtained and quickly add to the power of your character.  The extreme cases of this, where people end up with an inordinately large number of achievements for their level, yields them to have an unbeatably strong advantage in PvP combat.  <span style="color: #cc0000">In order to mitigate the effects this, characters will be limited to spending 1.5 times their current level within the achievement trees.</span>  You can still gain points above this limit and spend them later on as you level.  Once these changes go live, all characters who are over the new Achievement Per Level cap will be given the opportunity to respec their points on their first login. </blockquote>So all those level 14 twinks will be able to keep all their twink equipment and have a maximum for 21aa. Most twinks at 14 only have about 15 or 16aa anyway. In T3 PvP it is rare to find people with more than 30aa at lvl 20 or 45aa at lvl30. What this does affect is T4 PvP where I have seen a lot of charactors with 60+ aa in the mid 30s. My lvl36 warden with 61aa will be capped at 54aa and mr battlemage here with 65aa at lvl38 will be capped at 57aa. This does nothing to stop low level noob bashing and punishes the wrong people in T4 and T5 who worked hard to better themselves in a highly competitive tier which I have yet to here one complaint about. Please consider the root cause to noob ganking in EQ2 PvP. It is done because it is highly rewarding in the form of uber factional gear. I know because I have done it myself with 3 active twinks that all started off by ganking noobs by the score full. I agree that it is wrong because it is destroying the population of these servers. Is what needs to be done is alternative ways need to be provided other than ganking noobs for faction. I suggest a few PvP based writs and quests that give faction in T2 towards the first peice of gear at lvl20. These quests/writs can be something simple like spy on the enemy without getting killed for 500 faction or go slay a slayer for 1500 faction. Tier 2 PvP should be the easiest for a new player to get into but in reality it is the hardest and it is slowly ruining the game. </blockquote> My 25 Swash has got 52 AA's which means he will lose 14 points which took me several weeks to get, hardcore camping every fekking named and stuff. <b><span style="color: #ff0000">Gonna cancel my account</span></b> the second time now and won't come back this time, cause this is darn lame.</blockquote><p> Bye.... These are the types of people who lock that I want to see out the door. Why cant you compete without God mode? Level 25 with 52, thats just crazy overpowered.. Might as well let us pvp while we mentor. Same thing..</p><p>To bad changes like this werent done sooner, like a year ago.. People got spoiled in thier easy mode ways, and these changes are going to effect thier titles and kvd so we may hear even more whining before it hits test. Good job on the changes btw, just keep an eye on druids...</p></blockquote><p>EVERYBODY is able to do that. I started from scratch several weeks ago on Nagafen and like 99% I achieved i did solo or with the help of my GF sitting next to me. You'r just too lazy to do so and get rewarded therefor. </p></blockquote>Lol.  Your guildname rox.  Ok I was being sarcastic =)

rezo
06-08-2007, 06:28 PM
This looks like a great change.  It should make PvP even more fun than it already is.

MaNiaGG84
06-08-2007, 06:29 PM
<cite>myrdhyn wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><cite>convict wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>Level locking has also been a hot topic on the forums over the past few months.  It's also a very tricky subject to handle.  <span style="color: #cc0000">Gaining equipment and better quality spells is something we encourage players to do and this is something everyone should still strive to do.  </span> Achievements on the other hand can be easily obtained and quickly add to the power of your character.  The extreme cases of this, where people end up with an inordinately large number of achievements for their level, yields them to have an unbeatably strong advantage in PvP combat.  <span style="color: #cc0000">In order to mitigate the effects this, characters will be limited to spending 1.5 times their current level within the achievement trees.</span>  You can still gain points above this limit and spend them later on as you level.  Once these changes go live, all characters who are over the new Achievement Per Level cap will be given the opportunity to respec their points on their first login. </blockquote>So all those level 14 twinks will be able to keep all their twink equipment and have a maximum for 21aa. Most twinks at 14 only have about 15 or 16aa anyway. In T3 PvP it is rare to find people with more than 30aa at lvl 20 or 45aa at lvl30. What this does affect is T4 PvP where I have seen a lot of charactors with 60+ aa in the mid 30s. My lvl36 warden with 61aa will be capped at 54aa and mr battlemage here with 65aa at lvl38 will be capped at 57aa. This does nothing to stop low level noob bashing and punishes the wrong people in T4 and T5 who worked hard to better themselves in a highly competitive tier which I have yet to here one complaint about. Please consider the root cause to noob ganking in EQ2 PvP. It is done because it is highly rewarding in the form of uber factional gear. I know because I have done it myself with 3 active twinks that all started off by ganking noobs by the score full. I agree that it is wrong because it is destroying the population of these servers. Is what needs to be done is alternative ways need to be provided other than ganking noobs for faction. I suggest a few PvP based writs and quests that give faction in T2 towards the first peice of gear at lvl20. These quests/writs can be something simple like spy on the enemy without getting killed for 500 faction or go slay a slayer for 1500 faction. Tier 2 PvP should be the easiest for a new player to get into but in reality it is the hardest and it is slowly ruining the game. </blockquote> My 25 Swash has got 52 AA's which means he will lose 14 points which took me several weeks to get, hardcore camping every fekking named and stuff. <b><span style="color: #ff0000">Gonna cancel my account</span></b> the second time now and won't come back this time, cause this is darn lame.</blockquote><p> Bye.... These are the types of people who lock that I want to see out the door. Why cant you compete without God mode? Level 25 with 52, thats just crazy overpowered.. Might as well let us pvp while we mentor. Same thing..</p><p>To bad changes like this werent done sooner, like a year ago.. People got spoiled in thier easy mode ways, and these changes are going to effect thier titles and kvd so we may hear even more whining before it hits test. Good job on the changes btw, just keep an eye on druids...</p></blockquote><p>EVERYBODY is able to do that. I started from scratch several weeks ago on Nagafen and like 99% I achieved i did solo or with the help of my GF sitting next to me. You'r just too lazy to do so and get rewarded therefor. </p></blockquote>Lol.  Your guildname rox.  Ok I was being sarcastic =) </blockquote> Your funny. Ok, been sarcastic too.

Geynos
06-08-2007, 06:30 PM
<p>Another thing that needs nerfing is Pumice Stones. In T2/T3, they still remove 130 levels of all buffs. Here's some examples of what happens when you pumice an enemy group:</p><p>1.</p><p>(1178315520)[Fri May 04 16:52:00 2007] Wild Spirit has been removed from Wapiti. (1178315520)[Fri May 04 16:52:00 2007] Pride of the Hunt has been removed from Wapiti. (1178315520)[Fri May 04 16:52:00 2007] Lucid has been removed from Wapiti. (1178315520)[Fri May 04 16:52:00 2007] Spirit of the Wolf has been removed from Wapiti. (1178315520)[Fri May 04 16:52:00 2007] The spirit of the wolf leaves Wapiti. (1178315520)[Fri May 04 16:52:00 2007] Bristleskin has been removed from Wapiti. (1178315520)[Fri May 04 16:52:00 2007] Natural Mask has been removed from Wapiti. (1178315520)[Fri May 04 16:52:00 2007] Spellbinding Pact has been removed from Wapiti. (1178315520)[Fri May 04 16:52:00 2007] Boon of the Shadows has been removed from Wapiti.</p><p>2.</p><p>(1178357611)[Sat May 05 04:33:31 2007] Feral Mask has been removed from Esabab. (1178357611)[Sat May 05 04:33:31 2007] Daring has been removed from Esabab. (1178357611)[Sat May 05 04:33:31 2007] Greater Regrowth has been removed from Esabab. (1178357611)[Sat May 05 04:33:31 2007] Esabab begins to heal at a normal rate. (1178357611)[Sat May 05 04:33:31 2007] Wild Spirit has been removed from Esabab. (1178357611)[Sat May 05 04:33:31 2007] Symbol of Transal has been removed from Esabab. (1178357611)[Sat May 05 04:33:31 2007] Pride of the Hunt has been removed from Esabab. (1178357611)[Sat May 05 04:33:31 2007] Lucid has been removed from Esabab. (1178357611)[Sat May 05 04:33:31 2007] Amplification has been removed from Esabab. (1178357611)[Sat May 05 04:33:31 2007] Magi's Shielding has been removed from Esabab. (1178357611)[Sat May 05 04:33:31 2007] Vivid Seal has been removed from Esabab.</p><p>3. </p><p>(1178397077)[Sat May 05 15:31:17 2007] Verdure has been removed from Radi. (1178397077)[Sat May 05 15:31:17 2007] Vigor has been removed from Radi. (1178397077)[Sat May 05 15:31:17 2007] Spirit of the Wolf has been removed from Radi. (1178397077)[Sat May 05 15:31:17 2007] The spirit of the wolf leaves Radi. (1178397077)[Sat May 05 15:31:17 2007] Regrowth has been removed from Radi. (1178397077)[Sat May 05 15:31:17 2007] Radi begins to heal at a normal rate. (1178397077)[Sat May 05 15:31:17 2007] Florescence has been removed from Radi. (1178397077)[Sat May 05 15:31:17 2007] Protection of the Willow has been removed from Radi. (1178397077)[Sat May 05 15:31:17 2007] Burning Radiance has been removed from Radi. (1178397077)[Sat May 05 15:31:17 2007] Amplify has been removed from Radi. (1178397077)[Sat May 05 15:31:17 2007] Vivid Seal has been removed from Radi.</p><p> I don't think Pumice Stones are intended to kill this many buffs in T2-T3. Its like a clever little secret most T2-T3 champion+ titled people hide behind. It is a game breaking item at this level: any group that does not use a pumice stone in PVP combat gets absolutely destroyed by a group that does.</p>

myrdhyn
06-08-2007, 06:33 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>Another thing that needs nerfing is Pumice Stones. In T2/T3, they still remove 130 levels of all buffs. Here's some examples of what happens when you pumice an enemy group:</p><p>1.</p><p>(1178315520)[Fri May 04 16:52:00 2007] Wild Spirit has been removed from Wapiti. (1178315520)[Fri May 04 16:52:00 2007] Pride of the Hunt has been removed from Wapiti. (1178315520)[Fri May 04 16:52:00 2007] Lucid has been removed from Wapiti. (1178315520)[Fri May 04 16:52:00 2007] Spirit of the Wolf has been removed from Wapiti. (1178315520)[Fri May 04 16:52:00 2007] The spirit of the wolf leaves Wapiti. (1178315520)[Fri May 04 16:52:00 2007] Bristleskin has been removed from Wapiti. (1178315520)[Fri May 04 16:52:00 2007] Natural Mask has been removed from Wapiti. (1178315520)[Fri May 04 16:52:00 2007] Spellbinding Pact has been removed from Wapiti. (1178315520)[Fri May 04 16:52:00 2007] Boon of the Shadows has been removed from Wapiti.</p><p>2.</p><p>(1178357611)[Sat May 05 04:33:31 2007] Feral Mask has been removed from Esabab. (1178357611)[Sat May 05 04:33:31 2007] Daring has been removed from Esabab. (1178357611)[Sat May 05 04:33:31 2007] Greater Regrowth has been removed from Esabab. (1178357611)[Sat May 05 04:33:31 2007] Esabab begins to heal at a normal rate. (1178357611)[Sat May 05 04:33:31 2007] Wild Spirit has been removed from Esabab. (1178357611)[Sat May 05 04:33:31 2007] Symbol of Transal has been removed from Esabab. (1178357611)[Sat May 05 04:33:31 2007] Pride of the Hunt has been removed from Esabab. (1178357611)[Sat May 05 04:33:31 2007] Lucid has been removed from Esabab. (1178357611)[Sat May 05 04:33:31 2007] Amplification has been removed from Esabab. (1178357611)[Sat May 05 04:33:31 2007] Magi's Shielding has been removed from Esabab. (1178357611)[Sat May 05 04:33:31 2007] Vivid Seal has been removed from Esabab.</p><p>3. </p><p>(1178397077)[Sat May 05 15:31:17 2007] Verdure has been removed from Radi. (1178397077)[Sat May 05 15:31:17 2007] Vigor has been removed from Radi. (1178397077)[Sat May 05 15:31:17 2007] Spirit of the Wolf has been removed from Radi. (1178397077)[Sat May 05 15:31:17 2007] The spirit of the wolf leaves Radi. (1178397077)[Sat May 05 15:31:17 2007] Regrowth has been removed from Radi. (1178397077)[Sat May 05 15:31:17 2007] Radi begins to heal at a normal rate. (1178397077)[Sat May 05 15:31:17 2007] Florescence has been removed from Radi. (1178397077)[Sat May 05 15:31:17 2007] Protection of the Willow has been removed from Radi. (1178397077)[Sat May 05 15:31:17 2007] Burning Radiance has been removed from Radi. (1178397077)[Sat May 05 15:31:17 2007] Amplify has been removed from Radi. (1178397077)[Sat May 05 15:31:17 2007] Vivid Seal has been removed from Radi.</p><p> I don't think Pumice Stones are intended to kill this many buffs in T2-T3. Its like a clever little secret most T2-T3 champion+ titled people hide behind. It is a game breaking item at this level: any group that does not use a pumice stone in PVP combat gets absolutely destroyed by a group that does.</p></blockquote>Thanks for the tip.  I have never used a pumice stone but I guess its time to try one out =)

Eybietie
06-08-2007, 07:08 PM
now let´s all roll a druid or sk.

HerbertWalker
06-08-2007, 07:11 PM
<p>Oh I guess being an over-achiever does not pay off in the end.</p><p>Thanks for taking away the AA's I earned, without any reasonable justification whatsoever.</p><p>Whiners ftw.</p>

Magius789
06-08-2007, 07:12 PM
I just started liking my lil 27 warden much more than I already did  and with my warlock roommate.  Thats one heck of a combo!  <img src="/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Qanil
06-08-2007, 07:15 PM
<cite>HerbertWalker wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Oh I guess being an over-achiever does not pay off in the end.</p><p><b>Thanks for taking away the AA's I earned, without any reasonable justification whatsoever.</b></p><p>Whiners ftw.</p></blockquote><p> You missed the part where he said it was too easy to become overpowered.  That's reasonable justification.</p>

HerbertWalker
06-08-2007, 07:18 PM
<p>Unreasonable to me.   If it is easy to achieve lots of AA's, then by T4 it should be no issue.  It's easy for everyone.</p><p>Raise the AA caps when it comes to the mid to upper tiers!  This particular change is extremely unfair.</p><p>The AA caps should go away starting at level 30 imo.</p><p>I lose a ton of AA here, and that is not an across the board change for everyone - just the over achievers.  It took me a dang long time to earn those AA.   Lesson learned - don't get too good at the game.</p>

OmniDrac
06-08-2007, 07:29 PM
<p>You also missed the part where he stated that EXP debt is to be removed...</p><p>This means that you will still be ahead of most lvl 38s for a good bit.   </p><p>By the time they reach your AA max, you will have learned how to adapt.</p><p>You do well in TS already, this will just give you a bit of a challenge.</p><p>Just remember to bank your gold...</p>

HerbertWalker
06-08-2007, 07:33 PM
<p>Nerf everyone across the board.  I called for that many months ago.  Nice.   Longer fights I hope.</p><p>Take away AA from characters above T2 who excelled at the game and built an uber character?  That is ridiculous - just as ridiculous as if you were to take away 20 levels from me.</p><p>Take away 20 AA from everyone.  That's fair.</p><p>Extremely unfair, this is.</p>

Jeda
06-08-2007, 07:47 PM
Reduce duration of drag???? Its only 5 seconds...<img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

holypaladin28
06-08-2007, 08:02 PM
<p>i just wanna say lvl lock lockers got pwned no more xp debnt and aa cap</p><p>see everyone soe does listen to the population</p>

Vydar
06-08-2007, 08:14 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>i just wanna say lvl lock lockers got pwned no more xp debnt and aa cap</p><p>see everyone soe does listen to the population</p></blockquote> I see a lot of the changes as positive, some as negative. And before you go on a rant, anyone, about how I'm just saying I'm [Removed for Content] without decap, read what I have to say. Strategy= the planning required to defeat a foe and the implementation of said strategy. So... when fighting a Wizard with mana shield, giving them 12k HP, how is ANYONE supposed to beat them without HUGE hits?  What is the strategy to that?  The buff can't be dispelled anymore, and it gives Wizards over 10k health.  This gives the bot farmers a big advantage, now, too.  They pop mana shield all the time already, so... go go bot farmers? And why did Wizards get a nerf on Fusion AND Ice Comet, but Warlock's didn't get it on Rift or on their longass roots? Why would a druid get a root nerf?  As if they don't have a tough enough time in PvP? Rather than change drag time, change the distance that one can be dragged.  5 seconds is already really short.  I am glad level locking twinks got changed up a bit... its near impossible for new players to even start on servers because they just get ganked non stop.  No XP debt is great news.  As for the scout damage changes... do we do a lot of damage?  Yes.  That is the job of being our class.  Already, decap is NOT a one shot kill on almost anyone.  Nor are any of the other scout hits.  Decap, if done on incoming, will usually drop someone down to about 30%, and it can only be used every 10 minutes, 8 and a half with pvp gear.  So it already does half the damage it does in pve, can be blocked, parried, can miss, can be riposted, can be eaten by mana shield, etc.  Now, its going to be nerfed even farther?  So... the point of being an assassin is to be insane burst dps... that is the strategy behind being an assassin.  Sure, we can do it with other attacks such as Jugular, Killing Blade, and Finishing Blow... all with long reuse timers.  I guess i'm just not sure the direction these changes are taking.  GG trying to make all classes the same?  Why don't you just make everyone on PvP servers be the same class? So the stereotypical answer is, "This game was designed to be played in a group, not solo, yada yada yada..." Don't even try telling that to those of us on Vox.  We're lucky to have 7-10 people to fight AGAINST in any given zone, let alone fight with.  With the recent token drop nerfing that favored bot farmers, we pretty much have to solo to get our pvp gear.  Also, the very definition of a scout is to be solo in many cases.  Go out ahead of the group if you have one, SCOUT out what is going on, and either report or take care of what you can. Freezing strike duration reduction?  Why this nerf?  I'm confused.  Strategy= allowing our enemies to run away because now we can't root them?  Ok, so Master I snare is 70%... but its short.  Cheap shot= 3 seconds with 5 aa points.  Now, we get our damage nerfed, and can't hold people in place to fight them.  So... we use decap every 10 minutes, that's not so much the point here.  Now, one of our other strategies, to hold someone in place so we can beat on them, is also nerfed. How do these changes help "strategy" besides trying to make the game less solo-able and more group oriented only?  Already, many people refuse to fight without a group, and others only fight solo... the pvp token system only rewards solo'ers to be honest.  What's up with the mixed message here?

Squishy
06-08-2007, 08:20 PM
<p>What you don't understand is that level lockers will still own.  This isn't even going to change that a little.  It is pretty easy to get 1.5X AA, and so now everyone will have that much AA.   Now all that matters is gear and spells.  lvl 17s will still have all masters and fabled gear and absolutely crush island gear newbs.   </p><p> This change is absolutely terrible in my opinion.   The classes don't need some a foolish nerf.   AA is the worst change I have ever seen.   The care bears are taking eq2 and turning it into WoW.   I have 66 AA at lvl 37.  I'm not locked forever, and have never debt locked to get more AA.   I have quested and killed many many named, and worked hard on my character.   I'm A guardian on Naggy.  Now you tell me I can only use 56 of my 66 AA I earned?   That is quite Bull.   The removal of exp debt is also useless, but I could care less about it.   </p><p>If these changes go through as planned, feel free to /cancel my account.   No joke, I enjoy slowly leveling up by questing but I enjoy the benefit of the AA I have earned.   You have taken the intrigue and challenge out of Eq2.</p><p>~Squishy of Naggy</p>

Microbolt
06-08-2007, 08:23 PM
<cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Rangers don't and can't melee.  We have about 5 melee abilites and the dmg on them wouldn't even total 1.5k.  I don't gank groups and I fight people on lvl ground as oppossed to sitting in the tree tops.  Trust me I'm not the type of ranger you people hate.  I didn't complain about dmg reduction, I'm addressing the concerns of my ability to gain distance on the target once engaged because 90% of our CA's don't work within a close distance to the target.  None of your characters are penelized for actually fighting near your target, however rangers are.  All I'm saying is now it will be VERY easy to run up to a ranger and STAY within that min. distance and make the ranger completely worthless.  I applaud there attempt at fixing pvp but merely addressing the dmg a ranger does would be more constructive than removing our abilities, in a sense, to even attack the target.  They didn't nerf our dmg so much as in a round about way removed it almost all together.  My F+ was in regards to ranger changes.  Besides it shows they didn't think things through to much as an example of the PvP belt, they've already changed it back to the way it was because of how people have posted.</blockquote><p> Have to agree with you.  I'm also pretty fair when it comes to positioning during a fight.  However if they make it harder to keep people outside our minimum range I guess I will have to resort to other methods to keep others away.</p><p>Please either leave our root/snares/stuns alone or atlease remove the minimum range in PvP combat. (can stay in PvE)  Or you may end up with lots of rangers attacking from building tops and trees =D</p>

PsycoSWG
06-08-2007, 08:46 PM
<p>Guys, your snares and stuff got nerfed a tad bit, I don't see what there is to complain about. So instead of lasting 45 secs it may only last 20 now, so what? Still a lot of time for rangers to kill. Maybe it's only a 20% snare now..well with no in-combat speed guess what? that's -20% runspeed. Enough to get away. I think you're overreacting with that.</p><p>The unfounded nerfs I see are to brigs. Stuns, mit debuffers, AND double-up nerfed, plus the damage from our pvp breastplate...do they want us to lie down and die? lol...</p><p>And I'm still curious about what is going to happen with my fury's pvp armor. Making the 15% runspeed only useful in PVE from my [Removed for Content] PVP ARMOR is totally uncalled for.</p>

Captain Apple Darkberry
06-08-2007, 08:50 PM
<span style="color: #ff3300">These changes rock...   =P</span>

Willian
06-08-2007, 09:01 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>i just wanna say lvl lock lockers got pwned no more xp debnt and aa cap</p><p>see everyone soe does listen to the population</p></blockquote> HAHAHA, I love it ! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Microbolt
06-08-2007, 09:01 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>Guys, your snares and stuff got nerfed a tad bit, I don't see what there is to complain about. So instead of lasting 45 secs it may only last 20 now, so what? Still a lot of time for rangers to kill. Maybe it's only a 20% snare now..well with no in-combat speed guess what? that's -20% runspeed. Enough to get away. I think you're overreacting with that.</p></blockquote><p> Well Leg Shot only lasts 12 seconds and you can't move while casting and they <u>must be</u> 2+ meters away and has a 10 second recast.  And vines lasts 24 seconds and breaks fairly easy with a recast on it of 20 seconds. Our root is only 4 seconds and they are reducing that too.  If they are at melee that gives us enough time to backup and maybe if lucky cast 1 CA.   Couple that with losing incombat run speed.  Its a harder nerf than it sounds.  On top of alll of our ranged CA's cannot be used on the move except for 2.  1 requires stealth and 3 seconds of cast time, which is pretty much impossible in PvP fight, and the other requires rear positioning, which rarely happens unless your chasing.</p><p>I really hope they get rid of minimum distance on CA's.  Then the snares wouldn't be so important.  <u>No other class requires</u> distance to be able to DPS at all.  Snares/Stuns/Roots is how we get that distance.</p>

PsycoSWG
06-08-2007, 09:04 PM
<p>Yes no other class REQUIRES range, but then again...no other scout class can pump out that amount of dps from range.</p><p>So you trade off, ranged dps in some fights with no melee dps...versus having to get in close to dps with no ranged damage.</p>

Microbolt
06-08-2007, 09:13 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>Yes no other class REQUIRES range, but then again...no other scout class can pump out that amount of dps from range.</p><p>So you trade off, ranged dps in some fights with no melee dps...versus having to get in close to dps with no ranged damage.</p></blockquote> I agree 100% with you.  Our melee should and is terrible.  We can't do 1/10th of the damage at melee as we can at range.  But taking our abilty to get range would make us useless in PvP.  We are also the only scout class that can't cast on the move.   So for instance, you as a Brigand can cast most if not all your CA's while chasing an Ranger and keeping us within 2 meters.  The Ranger doesn't even have an chance.

Jayingsoo
06-08-2007, 09:14 PM
<span style="color: #0099ff">If Warlocks don't get this bat to the face for Apoc and Rift.... I'm going to be sick.  I may just call it quits.  Lowering my spell resistability is one positive thing.  Then to lower my burst damage is blatantly insulting.  I wish more of the dev's played mages instead of the typical rogues and predators.  Trying to "balance" pvp is fine, but tuning their own classes and then smashing others is not a good way to see that as "balance."  With one positive change, 5 negatives will pop up.  Lowering damage of ice nova and fusion won't be by a few hundred.  It'll be by a few thousand.  The last thing I want is 10 minute 6v6 fights.  Shamans and Druids with disgusting amounts of power, tanks taunting, damage will never be able to take place in large bursts, and the heals go off and the wards go up.  Nobody is going to die.  Ever.  The game is now titled: EVER PVP Battlepriests will pretty much take lead in this update.  Balancing (or so it's called) in this update will give battlepriests the largest lead on all other classes since the Predator/Rogue dominance in pre-EoF.  Slamming dispatch (AGAIN?!) makes me want to cry for brigands. Smacking En'Guarde was to be expected... but jeesh not that bad. However something tells me that these changes will make bards ten times more desirable in pvp groups.  Abilities like Cacophony of Blades and Precision will be key factors to many fights.  So instead of just the "Yeah we have a bard... we're better i guess." it is now "We have a bard, and he's/she's the key to our fights."  I'd expect to see a lot more use of bards in any group. Like everyone else, I'm afraid that my burst damage will be hit to the point where my clothness is going to be the death of me.  Dying in 5 seconds to a brigand is one thing.  I wear a bath robe for God's sake, I deserve it.  But the mage spells that take 4-5 seconds to cast... c'mon.  What else are Shamans for?  Stopping burst dps.  Opposing group have a ranger/wizard?  Buy a defiler!  Smacking a wizard's only source of survivability is just making us look embarassing again.  At least everyone else gets mitigation AND resists.  We wear curtains.  Wizard FTL (unless we get some pretty amazing new spells... better be f*cking amazing). </span>

Poison-X
06-08-2007, 09:18 PM
<p>None of these changes are actually live in the pvp-test server how are we suppose to give feedback?.....</p>

DarkMasterMan
06-08-2007, 09:23 PM
Developers, have any of you played a brigand to see how we fight? Or are you purely looking at the stats you have on us. True, the mitigation buff we have was huge, PRE-diminishing returns! Now, its minimal. We have no 15 min timers, we have no 5 min timers, which meant no decap, no sniper shot. We have no beneficial buffs for others, like the swashy hate transfer, the assassin hate transfer, the SK group buffs, or any of the bard buffs. When you had a brigand in your group, he was your debuffer, and stunner. Yes, this made us good in 1v1 PvP. Still, running around I would get rooted, then just BLASTED by casters sometimes, not often, true, but if a caster did root me, I was as good as dead. My main strategy was to stun, debuff (hopefully I am able to cast them, because every good pvper knows that if you try to turn around while stunned someone backstabbing you will actually have to be standing INFRONT of you!). My stun duration of 4 seconds usually allows me to get off EITHER devitalize, or dispatch, both of which I have mastered. Then the other person loses their stun, and since I have no stifles, begins to cast, or if theyr a scout or tank, stuns me in turn. Once their stun is over, I try to get my malicious, restrain, and revoke combo into my double up (spec'd agi). If at any time, they stifle, stun, knock me back, or root me, my double up's dead anyways, and since I have no huge CA's, I can't do anything about it. Then I'm forced to try to play catch up and use my smaller hits to wear them down. If you reduce our stun duration, chances are we wont be able to land ANY of our debuffs in 1v1 pvp (theyr curable even so..). A brigand with no big hits, against someone with no mitigation debuffs, is likely dead, REGARDLESS of the brigands skill if his opponent has any what so ever. But even if hes debuffed, if the debuffs are nerfed so bad they hardly do anything, then the brigand is also dead. As of right now, a shadowknight has an encounter debuff for more mitigation than a brigand can do single target. Shadowknights can be cast from range, and at any quadrant. True, if the brigand stacks his, its more, but only for the 13 seconds of dispatch. The shadowknights is for a 72 seconds! Swashbucklers have more dps than a brigand, true. But in return, brigands get better debuffs. If you reduce our one stun other than cheapshot (yes, brigands get TWO stuns, read it, TWO, not the 10 that most of you think!), then we will not be able to land any of our flanking debuffs against a skilled pvper without burning restrain, our largest damage CA, which once used obviously can't be used in our now nerfed double up. Even as it is, casters and tanks can do decently against me if they know how to play their class. Please, please, I'm begging you, don't make it so that CA combo's no longer matter, that all it takes is hitting 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0. The shorter fights added some flavor, your life depended upon which CA you decided to hit when, shorter fights do NOT mean lack of skill, they simply require a quicker mind in many cases.     For those of you who play casters, at 20 you can use totems, even as a brigand, I run dual totems 24/7, so can you! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> -Drakan Dev's...I'm one of the best of the brigands out there, please, I sent in my testcopy yesterday, hoping it would be through by today, its not. Please, please, dev's, heres an idea! Bring some level 70 characters out into say, sinking sands, at an announced date and time. Arrange some fights for the experienced players, and see how it works out! On paper, and in game, are to AMAZINGLY different things! Where you think your CA has a .4 cast timer, and your stun lasts for 3 seconds (enhanced cheapshot), so you should be able to get off, including a .4 recovery, 3 backstabs if your quick, your lucky to get off even one against a player who knows how to rotate. Please, please, please, I'm BEGGING you, let us prove to you that what your doing is overkill, and extreme overkill at that.

LarsEdvard
06-08-2007, 09:23 PM
<span style="color: #cc6633">Don't allways need to test it to submit feedbacks. Got some feedbacks on the belt, and they fixed that without being tested <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span>

Eybietie
06-08-2007, 09:23 PM
<cite>Willian wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>i just wanna say lvl lock lockers got pwned no more xp debnt and aa cap</p><p>see everyone soe does listen to the population</p></blockquote> HAHAHA, I love it ! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote><p>lvl 15 = 22 aa lvl. yeah now that was a big nerf .... idiots. that doesn´t change anything. people will still lvl lock - and lvl 15 with 22 aa points is still overpowered. the newbs will still get owned. but gz on beeing stupid enough to think that you ... <i>won</i> ... lol. btw - swash got nerfed? lol i don´t see that. reach soe - it is REACH that has to get nerfed in PVP. R E A C H. <b><u>REEEEAAAAACH. </u></b></p><p>well for the brig part - just lol. really - just lol. after assasin brigs got the most positional attacks no? what did brigs get from eof aa tree? let´s see... mmmmhhh... ahh... <b><u>nothing. but they allready got nerfed - so now let´s nerf them again.</u></b> lol. i can live with it sure but i don´t get the point. to counter a brig you just need a freedom of mind potion ( most likely you don´t even need that ) while to counter a swash - you still have to pop that pumice stone. 50 silver compared to 50k status and 1 gold. not to mention how powerfull warden will be. yay - more druids with 1vs 1 pets too. </p>

Darenlok
06-08-2007, 09:24 PM
Just don't nerf pact of the cheetah in combat please.  It's one thing to take out a fury's 35% in combat run speed buff (which I whole heartedly agree was over powered to high hell) but cheetah?  It would seriously just become useless if it didnt work in combat. I mean think about it, part of the spell Pact of the Cheetah cures all root effects on player.  Curing throws one into combat.  Pacting away from someone (when your not even in combat yet) will now throw you into combat and then negate your own pact speed........*golf clap* Furys get cheetah to get them to safety (or chase someone down) and wardens get evac.  With these changes a wardens evac will still get them to safety while a furys cheetah is now a death sentence.  I'll be afraid to use the thing now for fear of throwing myself into combat and getting rolled over by a full group.

The_Real_Ohno
06-08-2007, 09:29 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>Guys, your snares and stuff got nerfed a tad bit, I don't see what there is to complain about. So instead of lasting 45 secs it may only last 20 now, so what? Still a lot of time for rangers to kill. Maybe it's only a 20% snare now..well with no in-combat speed guess what? that's -20% runspeed. Enough to get away. I think you're overreacting with that.</p></blockquote><p> Well Leg Shot only lasts 12 seconds and you can't move while casting and they <u>must be</u> 2+ meters away and has a 10 second recast.  And vines lasts 24 seconds and breaks fairly easy with a recast on it of 20 seconds. Our root is only 4 seconds and they are reducing that too.  If they are at melee that gives us enough time to backup and maybe if lucky cast 1 CA.   Couple that with losing incombat run speed.  Its a harder nerf than it sounds.  On top of alll of our ranged CA's cannot be used on the move except for 2.  1 requires stealth and 3 seconds of cast time, which is pretty much impossible in PvP fight, and the other requires rear positioning, which rarely happens unless your chasing.</p><p>I really hope they get rid of minimum distance on CA's.  Then the snares wouldn't be so important.  <u>No other class requires</u> distance to be able to DPS at all.  Snares/Stuns/Roots is how we get that distance.</p></blockquote><p>Dont worry this guy is still butt sore from all the Rangers pwnin him on Venny.  Of course he wouldnt see the down sides to all these nerfs, well only to his class. <img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Any "good" pvper carrys cures, being rooted/snared dont mean crap in t7.  They get cured.  </p><p>I hope SoE actualy listens to the Rangers here and either take away the min distance for our Ranged CAs to be casted or make it so our Ranged CAs all work while on the move.</p><p>I really dont like seein anyone gettin nerfed, all Ive seen over the months is ppl cryin about DPS classes doing just that... DPS.  Like others have said, this IS an MMO not Battlefield w/e.  Get a [I cannot control my vocabulary] grp and all this crap isnt an issue at all. </p>

Microbolt
06-08-2007, 09:33 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>I hope SoE actualy listens to the Rangers here and either take away the min distance for our Ranged CAs to be casted or make it so our Ranged CAs all work while on the move.</p></blockquote> I agree, either one of those changes would be good.

Badaxe Ba
06-08-2007, 09:33 PM
<p>A specific update on when the changes will be made on test would be nice, sometime next week is at least a better answer than nothing at all.</p><p>Twice I logged into the test server today, and I can't say there was anyone there.  two toons under 10, one 11, and after touring thru CL, TT, BS, and even a pistop in west and south freeport, I failed to find anyone to test with....</p><p>Quarter, the proposed nerf to our autoattack dmg and our snares basically reduces our pvp ability to nil.  Our only useful abilities will be track and evac, and evac doesn't work in pvp combat.</p><p>Before you cry L2P like some other posters, I have had my burst dps be turned inneffective in combat against certain classes (healers and brawlers to name two) and our only ability then IS our autoattack damage, and doing our best to stay out of melee range, because we have no 'burst' melee dps. toe to toe fighting isn't a rangers strongpoint.</p><p>Unless something is given to us to make up for these reductions, Rangers will be tactically forced to fight from inacessible to melee positions, in order to survive a long fight.</p><p>My main concern in the reduction in other  dps classes is how much stronger this makes healers.  Now they will  be able to heal all the way thru a fight with any class practically.</p>

Broccoliswo
06-08-2007, 09:51 PM
While your're changing everything, can you make rogue AA line taunts (from STA line) actually work in PvP combat? Or predator deaggros from AA lines?

Novusod
06-08-2007, 09:54 PM
Arn't you brigands here forgetting about surprize attack. That does some pretty amazing burst dps there. Last time a brig used it on me it took half my life.

CresentBlade
06-08-2007, 09:57 PM
<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>In other news, Debt is being removed from pvp servers. </blockquote> <img src="/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Whoa! We are in their world now, hehe.

DarkMasterMan
06-08-2007, 09:59 PM
Our suprise attack! WOOT! Yeah...if someones stupid enough to hit me while THATS in use then I needn't have used it in the first place. Its flat out one of our worst abilities, sure, while in heavy melee combat, I MIGHT be able to get it to go off, but in normal PvP, if I hit that, whoever I'm fighting snares me and backs off, laughing. And I don't forget skills, if you think your good, lets go on test <img src="/smilies/1069449046bcd664c21db15b1dfedaee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> How do I get my little characters stat sheet, I have <a href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/signature?characterId=491108121" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://eq2players.station.sony.com/...terId=491108121</a> already, but I have no idea where to put it =/

CresentBlade
06-08-2007, 10:01 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>Level locking has also been a hot topic on the forums over the past few months.  It's also a very tricky subject to handle.  <span style="color: #cc0000">Gaining equipment and better quality spells is something we encourage players to do and this is something everyone should still strive to do.  </span> Achievements on the other hand can be easily obtained and quickly add to the power of your character.  The extreme cases of this, where people end up with an inordinately large number of achievements for their level, yields them to have an unbeatably strong advantage in PvP combat.  <span style="color: #cc0000">In order to mitigate the effects this, characters will be limited to spending 1.5 times their current level within the achievement trees.</span>  You can still gain points above this limit and spend them later on as you level.  Once these changes go live, all characters who are over the new Achievement Per Level cap will be given the opportunity to respec their points on their first login. </blockquote>So all those level 14 twinks will be able to keep all their twink equipment and have a maximum for 21aa. Most twinks at 14 only have about 15 or 16aa anyway. In T3 PvP it is rare to find people with more than 30aa at lvl 20 or 45aa at lvl30. What this does affect is T4 PvP where I have seen a lot of charactors with 60+ aa in the mid 30s. My lvl36 warden with 61aa will be capped at 54aa and mr battlemage here with 65aa at lvl38 will be capped at 57aa. This does nothing to stop low level noob bashing and punishes the wrong people in T4 and T5 who worked hard to better themselves in a highly competitive tier which I have yet to here one complaint about. Please consider the root cause to noob ganking in EQ2 PvP. It is done because it is highly rewarding in the form of uber factional gear. I know because I have done it myself with 3 active twinks that all started off by ganking noobs by the score full. I agree that it is wrong because it is destroying the population of these servers. Is what needs to be done is alternative ways need to be provided other than ganking noobs for faction. I suggest a few PvP based writs and quests that give faction in T2 towards the first peice of gear at lvl20. These quests/writs can be something simple like spy on the enemy without getting killed for 500 faction or go slay a slayer for 1500 faction. Tier 2 PvP should be the easiest for a new player to get into but in reality it is the hardest and it is slowly ruining the game. </blockquote> My 25 Swash has got 52 AA's which means he will lose 14 points which took me several weeks to get, hardcore camping every fekking named and stuff. Gonna cancel my account the second time now and won't come back this time, cause this is darn lame.</blockquote>Good luck on your next game.

Willian
06-08-2007, 10:04 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><cite>Willian wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>i just wanna say lvl lock lockers got pwned no more xp debnt and aa cap</p><p>see everyone soe does listen to the population</p></blockquote> HAHAHA, I love it ! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote><p>lvl 15 = 22 aa lvl. yeah now that was a big nerf .... idiots. that doesn´t change anything. people will still lvl lock - and lvl 15 with 22 aa points is still overpowered. the newbs will still get owned. but gz on beeing stupid enough to think that you ... <i>won</i> ... lol. btw - swash got nerfed? lol i don´t see that. reach soe - it is REACH that has to get nerfed in PVP. R E A C H. <b><u>REEEEAAAAACH. </u></b></p><p>well for the brig part - just lol. really - just lol. after assasin brigs got the most positional attacks no? what did brigs get from eof aa tree? let´s see... mmmmhhh... ahh... <b><u>nothing. but they allready got nerfed - so now let´s nerf them again.</u></b> lol. i can live with it sure but i don´t get the point. to counter a brig you just need a freedom of mind potion ( most likely you don´t even need that ) while to counter a swash - you still have to pop that pumice stone. 50 silver compared to 50k status and 1 gold. not to mention how powerfull warden will be. yay - more druids with 1vs 1 pets too. </p></blockquote>[Removed for Content], i think the only idiot here is you. When enough people complain again there will be another PvP NERF BAT in LU #37  HAHA, I can see it coming already!  This is only the begining of the PvP nerf bat IMHO...lol

Willian
06-08-2007, 10:05 PM
<cite>CresentBlade wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>Level locking has also been a hot topic on the forums over the past few months.  It's also a very tricky subject to handle.  <span style="color: #cc0000">Gaining equipment and better quality spells is something we encourage players to do and this is something everyone should still strive to do.  </span> Achievements on the other hand can be easily obtained and quickly add to the power of your character.  The extreme cases of this, where people end up with an inordinately large number of achievements for their level, yields them to have an unbeatably strong advantage in PvP combat.  <span style="color: #cc0000">In order to mitigate the effects this, characters will be limited to spending 1.5 times their current level within the achievement trees.</span>  You can still gain points above this limit and spend them later on as you level.  Once these changes go live, all characters who are over the new Achievement Per Level cap will be given the opportunity to respec their points on their first login. </blockquote>So all those level 14 twinks will be able to keep all their twink equipment and have a maximum for 21aa. Most twinks at 14 only have about 15 or 16aa anyway. In T3 PvP it is rare to find people with more than 30aa at lvl 20 or 45aa at lvl30. What this does affect is T4 PvP where I have seen a lot of charactors with 60+ aa in the mid 30s. My lvl36 warden with 61aa will be capped at 54aa and mr battlemage here with 65aa at lvl38 will be capped at 57aa. This does nothing to stop low level noob bashing and punishes the wrong people in T4 and T5 who worked hard to better themselves in a highly competitive tier which I have yet to here one complaint about. Please consider the root cause to noob ganking in EQ2 PvP. It is done because it is highly rewarding in the form of uber factional gear. I know because I have done it myself with 3 active twinks that all started off by ganking noobs by the score full. I agree that it is wrong because it is destroying the population of these servers. Is what needs to be done is alternative ways need to be provided other than ganking noobs for faction. I suggest a few PvP based writs and quests that give faction in T2 towards the first peice of gear at lvl20. These quests/writs can be something simple like spy on the enemy without getting killed for 500 faction or go slay a slayer for 1500 faction. Tier 2 PvP should be the easiest for a new player to get into but in reality it is the hardest and it is slowly ruining the game. </blockquote> My 25 Swash has got 52 AA's which means he will lose 14 points which took me several weeks to get, hardcore camping every fekking named and stuff. Gonna cancel my account the second time now and won't come back this time, cause this is darn lame.</blockquote>Good luck on your next game. </blockquote> I agree, Good Bye . Hahaha Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa !!!

CresentBlade
06-08-2007, 10:06 PM
<cite>HerbertWalker wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Oh I guess being an over-achiever does not pay off in the end.</p><p>Thanks for taking away the AA's I earned, without any reasonable justification whatsoever.</p><p>Whiners ftw.</p></blockquote>You have done nothing but whine in just about every post you have made over the last couple days. Your the last person that needs to say anything about whiners.

CresentBlade
06-08-2007, 10:08 PM
<cite>HerbertWalker wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Nerf everyone across the board.  I called for that many months ago.  Nice.   Longer fights I hope.</p><p>Take away AA from characters above T2 who excelled at the game and built an uber character?  That is ridiculous - just as ridiculous as if you were to take away 20 levels from me.</p><p>Take away 20 AA from everyone.  That's fair.</p><p>Extremely unfair, this is.</p></blockquote>Do you even bother to read? You still have them just cant use them till your the correct level.

EQ2Playa432
06-08-2007, 10:57 PM
<cite>Darenlok wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just don't nerf pact of the cheetah in combat please.  It's one thing to take out a fury's 35% in combat run speed buff (which I whole heartedly agree was over powered to high hell) but cheetah?  It would seriously just become useless if it didnt work in combat. I mean think about it, part of the spell Pact of the Cheetah cures all root effects on player.  Curing throws one into combat.  Pacting away from someone (when your not even in combat yet) will now throw you into combat and then negate your own pact speed........*golf clap* Furys get cheetah to get them to safety (or chase someone down) and wardens get evac.  With these changes a wardens evac will still get them to safety while a furys cheetah is now a death sentence.  I'll be afraid to use the thing now for fear of throwing myself into combat and getting rolled over by a full group. </blockquote>I agree. At the least, make sure Cheetah doesn't put us into combat.

Novusod
06-08-2007, 10:58 PM
<cite>DarkMasterMan wrote:</cite><blockquote>Our suprise attack! WOOT! Yeah...if someones stupid enough to hit me while THATS in use then I needn't have used it in the first place. Its flat out one of our worst abilities, sure, while in heavy melee combat, I MIGHT be able to get it to go off, but in normal PvP, if I hit that, whoever I'm fighting snares me and backs off, laughing. And I don't forget skills, if you think your good, lets go on test <img src="/smilies/1069449046bcd664c21db15b1dfedaee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> How do I get my little characters stat sheet, I have <a href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/signature?characterId=491108121" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://eq2players.station.sony.com/...terId=491108121</a> already, but I have no idea where to put it =/ </blockquote>You are in The Oda Clan. Enough said. If you are really good then make it work but don't say your class doesn't have any options when it comes burst dps. Adapt or watch your glory fade away.

Ibunubi
06-08-2007, 11:01 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>While your're changing everything, can you make rogue AA line taunts (from STA line) actually work in PvP combat? Or predator deaggros from AA lines? </blockquote>Or everyone's class deaggros and/or taunts... Not just for your two characters~

Poison-X
06-08-2007, 11:06 PM
<p>Now that pvp belt doens't riposte anymore you'll have zones crashing left and right when en garde gets parried procing en garde in an infinite loop..</p>

Broccoliswo
06-08-2007, 11:10 PM
<cite>Ibunubi wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>While your're changing everything, can you make rogue AA line taunts (from STA line) actually work in PvP combat? Or predator deaggros from AA lines? </blockquote>Or everyone's class deaggros and/or taunts... Not just for your two characters~</blockquote>Since I've only played two classes, those are the only two I'm personally aware of that are broken. Nowhere did I state that there perhaps aren't other classes who experience the same problem. Perhaps you shouldn't be so desperate to troll everything I say.

Image_Vain
06-08-2007, 11:18 PM
We need "Quest Mounts"

The_Real_Ohno
06-08-2007, 11:24 PM
Also what about Stuns?  They gettin there duration reduced aswell?  Brigs and Assassin can stun for 6 secs if not more.  If your gonna nerf roots and snares, I guess stuns should be aswell?

Broccoliswo
06-08-2007, 11:25 PM
Assassins only stun for 3 seconds. They stifle for longer. And the brig stun is "deceitful blow" which is going to be nerfed.

The_Real_Ohno
06-08-2007, 11:33 PM
<p>Ahh, was there stifle I was thinkin about.  Not like I ever have issues, cures ftw!  Just wish the whiners would use them instead of coming here for nerfs. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Sorffats
06-09-2007, 12:01 AM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><b>Ranger</b> <ul><li>The Hunter's Instinct line will now buff out of combat speed rather than in combat speed. </li><li><span style="color: #0033ff">Nerfing the AA line, thereby resulting in wasted points.</span></li><li>Reduced the duration and range of Hook Arrow</li><li><span style="color: #0033ff">Never used or had, no comment</span> </li><li>Reduced the root duration of the Lung line </li><li><span style="color: #0033ff">It lasts how long now?  And you want to shorten it more?</span></li><li>Reduced the snare duration on the Leg Shot line. </li><li><span style="color: #0066ff">Thanks for letting me waste my hard earned coin for nothing upgrading this to try and keep <b><u>FURIES</u></b> from either running away or running me down.</span></li><li>Reduced the damage done by the Sniper Shot line.</li><li><span style="color: #0033ff">Have any of you been reading posts by rangers at all?  Or have you just been paying attention to all the cryers and whiners and moaners!  Its on a fifteen minute timer!  Even if a ranger chooses the str AA line, it only reduces it to 10 minutes!</span></li></ul><p><span style="color: #0033ff">Are we going to get higher mitigation in eschange for this?  How about giving us more damage to our melee CA's!  Or let us use our ranged CA's while moving!  Can we get a heal or two or let us wear plate armor!</span></p><p><span style="color: #0033ff">Its always take and take! </span></p><p><span style="color: #0033ff">And don't tell me this has been tested, I've logged onto the test server with this 70 ranger more than once and have only seen 1 freeporter the whole time.  </span></p><p><span style="color: #0033ff">Sweeping changes, in order to make PVP last longer, is going to make it go away for some classes.  Unless the result you are looking for is more time being dead.</span></p></blockquote>My point is addressing the following part of the above quote...." <li>Reduced the damage done by the Sniper Shot line.</li><li>Have any of you been reading posts by rangers at all?  Or have you just been paying attention to all the cryers and whiners and moaners!  Its on a fifteen minute timer!  Even if a ranger chooses the str AA line, it only reduces it to 10 minutes!"</li><p>I'm sure I am not the only one that has been on the receiving end of a critical hit sniper shot from a distance that I can't hit, throw, or teleport to (i.e. sonic fist).   As the original post states, this is to make pvp more "strategic".   I only hope that these changes really take away the easy button from some of the classes that have had it super easy in pvp.</p><p>IMO, the main concern I had in pvp was versus swashies.   With engarde, inspiration, and the pvp belt, I hated fighting them.   I'm certainly glad to see a nerf for this class.  It is long over due.  I read alot of complaints about the pvp belt being switched from riposte to parry.  While I do disagree with giving it a 10 minute reuse timer as opposed to the 1 hour reuse, I am glad to see that when I fight a swashie, and they use the pvp belt (and regardless of what they say, they ALL use it), at least it won't be riposting 100% of the dmage I do to the swash.   Yeah, I'll burn thru my CA's still, but at least I won't be taking damage from the parry.</p><p>As for wizzies and the reduction in Ice Comet and Fusion, as well I say about time.   It's such a pain in the butt to be flying in on a cloud only to be fusioned to death as you land.   I'd say up the ante on Fusion (and other AE's) and make them uncastable if there is no target in range.   Those wizzies that like to cloud platform fusion start casting it much farther than the range of the spell has to hit.   I think a fix should be in order for all AE's where there must be a target in range before the spell can even be cast, just like any single target spell/ca.  If you're target is out of range, it won't allow you to even start the cast.</p>

Sorffats
06-09-2007, 12:07 AM
I have test copied my bruiser to pvp test server.   If anyone else is going to or has already done so, post it.   I wouldn't mind testing some of the changes.   Perhaps we could even set up specific dates/times for some people to log on to the pvp test server and test these changes out.   I logged on to the test server, and it is COMPLETELY dead.    I did a "/who all" and 4 people (one of which was myself) came up.