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View Full Version : The classes and design


CresentBlade
06-05-2007, 12:19 AM
<p>I know we of the forums post alot of nerf this nerf that balance please etc etc..</p><p>I guess what I want to know is how are the classes intended to work? Are they intended the way they work in a fantasy book or movie? i.e. Big super strong warrior but lacks in brains and is super tough. Weak old wizard that cant blow the world apart but will fall if the wind blows to hard. How are the classes designed and going off what style, if I am making sense.</p><p>Warrior:</p><p>They are often a vet of many wars cunning and smart or super strong and tough as nails but lacking alot in the thinking department. At least in movies and books and board games etc.</p><p>In EQ2 they are tough in a way but not strong. i.e fighting a scout the scout would be faster but if the warrior hits him it would be a powerful hit, but not so in EQ2 its the other way around. There are some scout classes that can tank just as well if not better then a tank class. What was the design thought in making warriors this way?</p><p>Scouts:</p><p>They are often weak and sneaky and know the right thing to do to save the day. There are some strong ones like from F Realms. Great at disarming traps and sneaking into places and stealing stuff. Or being able to assassinate important people.</p><p>In EQ2 world scouts are like super tanks able to assassinate most anyone minus other trained scouts/assassins. Was this the main design idea? A world of Artemis Entreri's?</p><p>Wizards:</p><p>Can seem them mostly as weak in body but strong in mind and magic. There are many wizards through out the fantasy world but not one would drop in a fight without a fight.</p><p>Casters seem to drop super fast and maybe do a little something if they are not out right resistied.</p><p>Healers:</p><p>Healers are often helpful people that give aid to others minus the dark ones, but heck they even help others of their team. Most often humble and wise or for the dark side wise and power hungry.</p><p>It seems in game the healers are designed more to kill then to heal, more so with the druid classes. Hard to find a healer that heals in pvp lately they all seem more concerned about DPS your health be damned.</p><p>I think perhaps these examples convey what I am asking. What was the design idea for each class, why was the class made and what was its intended role?</p><p>Not attacking any classes just want to know what SoE had in mind when they where making/choosing classes compared to how the classes turned out.</p><p>Thanks in advance!</p>

Novusod
06-05-2007, 01:41 AM
My two cents on the issue is that EQ2 was not originally intended for PvP. The classes were not ballanced aside from what classes you wanted to bring along in a PvE raid. The devs wanted every class to be needed for raids. So if you have druids and shamans and shamans are better healers so they gave druids more attacks to make them wanted on raids. In the earliest days of EQ2 developement there was almost no solo content. When it became clear that the developement was to focus on solo'ing there was a major combat revamp and many classes were nerfed while a few saw some nice buffs. The tanks which were good solo'ers got nerfed and scouts which up until that time were quite fagile got buffed up. Some time after that SoE decides to launch PvP servers after they said they were never going to have PvP. These unballanced classes are then pretty much just let loose on each other. There has been some minor ballancing issues since then but things have mostly stayed the same. The best I think they can hope for is a rock, paper, sissors approach. Tanks are rocks, scouts are sissors, and healers are paper.

Bozidar
06-05-2007, 10:24 AM
you can't summarize them so simply.  Each class, and in some cases their evil or good counterpart, has a special thing that they do.  a style that they play, and a way in which they excel.  You can say "tanks taunt, healers heal, scouts and clothies dps and crowd control".. but there's so much more than that to each of those classes.  that's what's great about really learning the game -- you discover that each class is a different thing, and that the style and skill behind that class is different for each of them.  Great game.. well done soe <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Eybietie
06-05-2007, 11:22 AM
<p>a good tank is deadly in group - same goes for mages. well let us say - it is a group based game?</p>

XeroXs84
06-05-2007, 11:29 AM
<cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote>Some time after that SoE decides to launch PvP servers after they said they were never going to have PvP. </blockquote> This is just sooo wrong.. I play this game since the very first day and they always said it will get pvp at some point.. they never gave an ETA tho till KoS expansion which introduced PVP. to the OP: I think only cos the roles of those classes is like that in many or even most other games, movies, stories whatever, theres no reason to stick with that in a new game, movie, story whatever... alltho it might have been intended, but well.. they got drifted away a bit with all the adjustments they made over the years.

tass
06-05-2007, 12:17 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>a good tank is deadly in group - same goes for mages. well let us say - it is a group based game?</p></blockquote>lol it used to be both sort of. Now it is classified as a solo game. Don't believe me? look over at that dude soloing those heroic names lol. I rest my case. And yes to someone who posted up there the game was not meant for pvp. The zones nor the classes nor the entire combat system was meant for it. They should have not went cheap and actually made a separate game type server specifically for pvp instead of trying to make a game designed mainly for pve in every single aspect as well as mashed Plato classes into a quick pvp coding with a new expansion.

Darkothe
06-05-2007, 04:04 PM
<p>Honestly...did any of you people pvp in the original EQ?  Granted, there were different servers with different rules - race wars/dark vs. light etc, but Sony is no stranger to PvP.  Unless you work at Sony or have any real information/documentation to back up some of these comments and accusations of Sony not knowing what they were doing when they introduced PvP into EQII...I have a really simply answer to your issues - go to a carebear server.  For the love of God...I have been ganked 20 times since I started playing, and only killed 4 people.  Why is that?  I was trying to solo pvp as a new player with no gear, no funds and no guild.  What did that mean?  I was a gank target.  Now, at 18 I'm looking at my stats and those of other people at 18 and simply shrugging.  They play their way...I play mine.  Do I whine and moan anymore about the twinks that ganked me on the way to 18?  Nope...they obviously earned the plat at one time or another and should be able to spend it as they see fit - you think that didn't happen in the original EQ in the old days?  Get a grip...I had a 15 bard twinked to obscene levels running about ganking everything in level range...and loved it - mind you this was back in 2000.  Sony  is not a group of addled old men, or a pack of unchooled newbs who've never built a game with PvP in it - they know what they're doing.  Do they make adjustments when something they've done isn't working as intended?  Yes - as is evidenced in the red comment on the boards last week.</p><p>Basically it boils down to this:  If you don't like the way the system is working on the PvP servers...leave.  No one has a gun to your head making you pay Sony to play a game that is apparently so blatantly unfair to a vocal minority.  PvP is not nice, not friendly, and not a place for the weak of heart.  I've had the experience of grinding through the mess to 18 as a green newb to the game from WoW, and it was slightly annoying to get ganked by twinks while I was trying to level.  However, I had to remind myself that I had *chosen* to play on a high population, PvP server where I would more than likely encounter hardships and twink ganking...that was a *choice* that I made and decided to follow through and tough it out.  I found a great guild, am a 21 Armorer and am preparing to take up more fully the PvP aspect of the game - as I am better outfitted through making my own armor and farming my own plat to upgrade my spells.  If you don't have the time, stamina or backbone to make the game enjoyable, take your subscription fee and go play weaksauce PvP on WoW - although I'm sure the twink griefers over there will give you headaches as well...this situation is not unique to EQII:  it's in every MMORPG that's ever married PvP with PvE.  Just the facts...adapt or move on.</p>

convict
06-05-2007, 04:15 PM
<p>OP.. Good points.. The problem is, theres not enough people playing pvp, and were losing more all the time, and were losing new players everyday due to gank group lockers..</p><p>If we had more people playing pvp, then SoE would fix this badly broken pvp game. They wont spend the dev time on it when those  same devs can be working on a money maker, an expansion. They will make more money off of an exp then they will fixing pvp. So the resources go to the exp and not pvp.</p><p>Until more people stay on the pvp servers, scouts and druids will continue to rule the pvp servers.</p>

Bozidar
06-05-2007, 05:02 PM
<cite>tass wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>a good tank is deadly in group - same goes for mages. well let us say - it is a group based game?</p></blockquote>lol it used to be both sort of. Now it is classified as a solo game. Don't believe me? look over at that dude soloing those heroic names lol. I rest my case. </blockquote>it's a group game.. just because a player is able to take on heroic mobs doesn't mean he can take on heroic groups in pvp.  some can.. even more of them at T7.. but you need to be a pretty special player with some pretty special gear to pull it off in pvp.

tass
06-05-2007, 06:17 PM
[Removed for Content] like say a full decked out pvp gear/fabled shining twink green that kicks the crap outa oranges? Ya theyre a regular in dw. You know somethings up when they walk up to the oranges and wait for them to hit them so they cant escape. With enough cash even pvp is a solo game. And if theres 1 thing thats easy to come by in game weather farming or buying its plat.