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View Full Version : Apprenticeship system, Reverse mentoring!


Azzuth
06-02-2007, 03:14 PM
I'm still fairly new to Everquest II, I've been having troubles sticking with any character. It seems like I get them to 25-30 and then get tired of them.  At any rate, I hardly play enough to ever see some of the cooler aspects of the game, and there are so few lower level places of any consequence.  So I've come up with an idea that I'm donating to the development team free of charge, I don't even care if I get any credit for it. All I ask is you implement it. <u>Apprenticeship system</u> - Mentoring allows a Higher level character to help lower levels by reducing their effective level and power.  The apprenticeship system would boost a lower level character in effectiveness allowing them to Apprentice with a higher level character to see higher level game content.  This system would seemingly give lower level character too much power, however that is just illusory.  The lower level character would be naturally restricted by the lack of higher level skills. Sure their skills would be dealing more damage, but for instance, a bruiser could be lacking in Feign Death, making him less effective than a higher level bruiser.  So balancing will be easier than the mentoring system.  Apprenticed players would be less effective than a natural level equivalent.  This system would need to be incentivized for higher level players in a sense, because aside from friends and guilds, why would any higher level character want to have lower levels with them if they are less effective?  Because, they would get an additional experience boost.  Realistically this would make sense.  A person taking on an apprentice would learn as much from the apprentice as the apprentice learns from the master.  Novices offer a different perspective on situations that would allow the more experienced person to gain a new insight on activities that they have become accustomed to. The bonus to the lower level character would be that they would be experiencing more diverse and interesting game locations, and getting a feel for the higher level aspect of the game.  Many casual players are left out of the higher end game, where games really take on their life and excitement, due to a lack of time to devote.  It is unfair and discouraging to these players.  This apprenticeship system would allow those players to have a taste of things to come and perhaps get them more excited and interested in getting to a higher level. This system gives not only those advantages, but some new aspects of world design and playability that have never been explored in a MMO before.  It would allow EQII to attract new players.  The apprenticeship system allows developers to create higher level content designed for lower level character.  This would open a third playing field.  Level 70 or 80 Raids designed to be taken by apprenticed groups that drop fabled gear for lower level character.  Apprenticed dungeons could be set at any level and allow a level of guild interaction that is hitherto unheard of, guilds could recruit players of any level and still include them in raids. You could restrict access to the apprenticed instances by checking to see if the group contains an apprentice.  This would diversify the equipment that lower level players are wearing.  I know I am not the only person sick of wearing crafted generic armor all the way to raid levels.  Low level players deserve decent looking weapons and armor as well. For a player, the apprenticeship system would allow for interesting and diverse gameplay from the get go.  First time players have this luxury for their first character, but after that unless you start in a different town the noob experience is the same grind until you hit 40ish and have more leveling options.  This system opens up development options that have never been explored before allowing an aging game to attract new players, and show the MMO world that EQ2 and SOE are able to break the MMO mold without even having to launch a new title.  This system would work and if implemented well, revitalize this game and make every player as excited as if they were new again. Thanks for your time Zip Daub

Haz
06-02-2007, 03:17 PM
I didn't read the whole thing, but I really like the idea of it. You really thought this out. If they implemented this, I think that would be hella cool. =] It would really get lower level players hyped.

Cusashorn
06-02-2007, 03:36 PM
So you're saying there should be a system that super-buffs lower characters just so they can play at the higher level with thier friends? Isn't that called power leveling?

Giral
06-02-2007, 04:40 PM
<p>so actualy the Aprrentice becomes Empowered WHY ? o yeah becuase he Clicked a Button </p><p>sorry , but an apprenticeship means you are there to Learn from someone more skilled and experianced then yourself,  it does not mean becuase your around the more skilled experianced person you suddenly get skilled and experianced ,   clicky a button at level 10 to be able to group a lvl 70 player and go do endgame content is absurd </p><p>when someone Mentor's DOWN, they retain there Higer level spells and better stats then a normal player that range becuase they have the Experiance, they have been there befor, they are more knowledge, they have no real reason to have to be there except to help you, there not getting any real benifit out of the mentoring except to be of assistant's to the lower level player, (yeah they can make grey quests ungrey by mentoring WOOPy : )</p><p>what's so Great about endgame content that makes the rest of the game boring ? actualy endgame content is repetative , there's not much of it, and you get bored doing the same zones over and over, and new players might quit when they are faced with this very real reality : ) </p><p>and there is an entire game from level 1-60 and only little content from 60 to 70 </p><p>go enjoy the content appropriate to your level , as it was created lovingly by the dev's just for you ; ) </p><p>P.s. you can go to almost anyzone in the game if your smart,brave,carefull,  i have taken lvl 12 toon's(ALONE)  to the 4th floor in POA , into BSS in bonemire(died 10 feet in but got disco : )  Sos, etc,,,      there actualy use to be Access quests to Enchated land's.Zek,Lavastorm but a bunch of people cried about it and they were removed , so you can go to any of the zones and wander around and take in the game in all it splendor already , just dont get agro ;p </p>

kcirrot
06-02-2007, 05:12 PM
This is basically the other half of City of Heroes/Villains Sidekick/Exemplar system.  Everquest2 stole the idea for mentoring from the exemplar half of the system. I'm sorta luke warm on this idea.  I don't care much for sidekicks in CoH/V but I can't deny that it allows guilds and friends to do more content because basically no one is level gated.  You either Sidekick up or the high levels mentor down.  But since there's no real progression to EQ2's content (access quests) anymore, I couldn't see the harm.

Lightstrider
06-02-2007, 05:31 PM
<p>There is a terminology issue here.  In the real world, an "apprentice" works for a "master" to learn a craft.  They don't just know it automatically.  In fact, they learn on lower level tasks in order to gain the skills to undertake higher level tasks.  Apprentices will routinely be given boring, tedious, but easy work to practice on, and to free the master up for the more difficult tasks.  There is also often a phase in between these two positions, that of "journeyman," a person who has moved beyond the simple tasks but not yet capable of the most difficult.</p><p>The mentor system in EQ2 essentially mimics this system, with the mentor basically the "master" and the character they mentor the "apprentice."  They just don't call the mentored character an apprentice.</p><p>I don' t know that I like this idea.  First, part of being a lower level character is playing the lower level content.  I have not found it to be boring, myself.  I enjoyed the lower level zones and early challenges, and still do when I play a new character.  The progression through these zones and adventures is the history of your character.  Second, paying dues is part of any apprenticeship, and dues are paid in Oakmyst Forest etc.  Leveling is relatively fast in the lower levels anyway, and then you will be beyond them.</p><p>Always impatient is the dark side...oops, I'm mixing my metaphors.</p>

Giral
06-02-2007, 07:38 PM
<p>Always impatient is the dark side</p><p>(ha our ploy is working as intended, sending our meak out to small skirmishes wyle we patiently build our armies in the dark places, bidding our time when the do gooder's are spread thinly thru out norath and then we shall overtake there citie's and hunt the remaning straggler's down at our leisure! Time is our Only ally) </p>

Chog
06-03-2007, 03:06 AM
So you want a character to skip all of the low to mid content so they can experience the high level content? I vote no.

Zard
06-03-2007, 04:31 AM
<p>This idea has been brought up before and many people shoot it down because it allows others to skip content. Why do they care if someone else is missing out on content? This affects them how? Perhaps they don't want a lower level character to potentially take their place in a group? I don't really understand why so many are against it.</p><p>In City of Heroes a sidekicked character is nowhere near as effective as a character normally that level (or exemplared down) and would only be invited if the team needed a specific archetype or if it was a friend of someone in the team. Allowing balanced teams to form and grouping with friends is a bad thing?</p><p>Many people across multiple servers frequently lament on how difficult it is to get a group. This would increase the chances of finding a group. Making it easier to find a group is a bad thing?</p><p>/puzzle</p>

OakravenDesade
06-03-2007, 04:38 AM
<p>look if you realy want a "powerlevel" button theirs the Station Exchange servers.</p><p>nuf said.</p>

Ordate
06-03-2007, 06:53 AM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>This idea has been brought up before and many people shoot it down because it allows others to skip content. Why do they care if someone else is missing out on content? This affects them how? Perhaps they don't want a lower level character to potentially take their place in a group? I don't really understand why so many are against it.</p><p>In City of Heroes a sidekicked character is nowhere near as effective as a character normally that level (or exemplared down) and would only be invited if the team needed a specific archetype or if it was a friend of someone in the team. Allowing balanced teams to form and grouping with friends is a bad thing?</p><p>Many people across multiple servers frequently lament on how difficult it is to get a group. This would increase the chances of finding a group. Making it easier to find a group is a bad thing?</p><p>/puzzle</p></blockquote><p>First it would obliterate the lower level market as no one at all would by low level crafted gear/masters/etc.  Just team up with a 70 and your instant uber!</p><p>2nd part of the "reward" of getting to 70 or whatever is "max" at the time is seeing the new lands.  That is part of the reward system as you level up.  Its something to reach for.  Want to raid Mayong?  Well you have to put in your time first!  Contested is a sort of example of this.  If I could spawn a contested and "play" that content whenever I wanted to... They wouldnt be contested.</p><p>Another thing, there would be a huge lack of "content"  content is made for all levels if you havent noticed.  It isn't just made for max level.  All this would go to waste as no one would group under max level.  Everyone would want to group at the highest level possible for a multitude of reasons.   Which brings me to my next point.</p><p>Plat flood!  Suddenly all these low level toons are getting treasure that is not teir centric.  The inflation that this would cause would quickly kill any buying of half decent items.  We would return to a trade only system as you saw in eq1 prior to kunark for god/dragon loot.</p><p>And Im not even a dev, Im sure they could give you 50 more reasons <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Kurokage
06-03-2007, 09:12 AM
<p>Sorry but I think this is a bad idea. Low level characters can already explore most of the available zones. Some places maybe harder then others, but that's the danger of going into zones meant for higher level toons. You are bored because you've played the same 1-30 zones several times over. I would be too. But I am about to ding 70 on my second toon and can't wait to see all the stuff they changed for low level characters. Making it possible for low level characters who are bored with low level content to skip to end content is going to help them become bored with high level content before they can even solo there. Seems like a bad idea to me.</p><p>Now, getting spammed by newbies who want a mentor is bad enough. Spam by plat sellers even worse. But an apprenticeship program would add a whole new excuse for low levels to spam higher level characters. Helping out people I know is one thing, and if my friends' friends need help I'd go that far too. But this seems to be an encouragement for low level toons to bug higher level toons who might be busy. I know this sounds a bit elitist, but put the wrong tell at the wrong time and people will get annoyed.</p><p>As far as apprenticeship only zones and raids? another bad idea. Why make it harder to win low level gear, fabled or not? The loot tables are already in a steady decline on some of the more popular high level zones. Making high level zones that only drop low level fabled gear will only make farming more popular, while killing the prices of gear already available to whatever level the apprenticeship zone is rated for. As a crafter oriented player, I also hope this doesn't happen. Crafters already took a hit when they simplified the recipes and made it easy for anyone to craft. This was done to balance the economy and I'll accept that. But apprenticeship zones won't balance anything, they'll only flood it.</p><p> I'll give ya props on the idea, it is interesting and since I have never played CoH/V it's new to me. But it just wouldn't work the same way in this game.</p>

Lightstrider
06-03-2007, 09:58 AM
<p>To me, it seems pretty obvious why people shouldn't skip content: <i> that's the game</i>.  If you play Monopoly, you don't start out by handing out all the property and giving everyone hotels--you have to build up to that.  That's the game.  If you want to <i>skip</i> the game, why <i>play</i> the game?  And again, what is so boring about playing the lower levels?  There are so many quests you can take an entirely different road to level up without repeating a quest, except for citizenship type quests, maybe.  If you are bored all that, perhaps you are bored by the game itself--why would it be any different if you could play at 70?  Unless you just want to raid from day one.  Maybe there should be a game out there for folks that want to do nothing but raid--it does seem like there are a good number of them who could care less about the rest of the game.  Or a raid-only server for EQ2 with a different rules set.</p>

LordPazuzu
06-03-2007, 12:42 PM
It's not apprenticeship, it's called sidekicking.  CoH has done it since launch.  It's a great mechanic....in the context of CoH.  Here it would just let you skip content and jump straight to the end to experience content you haven't earned the right to experience...but then again, you'd probably die due to lack of proper gear...unless of course the gear magically gets uber too.  At that point, what's the point of leveling? They should just have all toons start at max insteaf if that's how they want to do it.  No thank you.

Sola
06-03-2007, 03:16 PM
No offense, but I think it's a bad idea myself.  Why?  Because high lvl toons can already escort you to high lvl locations to see them fight and the splendor of new eye candy.  By allowing this 'apprenticeship' it would allow serious power lvling and possibilities for all kinds of exploits.  Not against having your buddies carry you along with them, just the fact of the exploits.  Also, I don't think SOE would like it as part of the thrill of leveling is the ability to earn the right to play in their new "eye candy" worlds <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Seraki
06-03-2007, 05:33 PM
<p>Sorry this cant work.</p><p>They spend a lot of time to prevent people from doing things like this.   What your asking for is a ligitmate way to have someone power level you.   Maybe this isnt your kind of game if you cant really get into it.</p><p><img src="/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

AegisCrown
06-03-2007, 11:44 PM
im gonna have to agree with most of the prior posters, this idea is [Removed for Content]., its stupid, and frankly it makes you seem like a tool for posting it.  YES I AM FLAMING YOU.!!1!!!!  theres reason you dont buy the game, instal it, pay for 1 month, and get ding 70 "welcome to the end game"  this is a MMORPG that requires you to adventure through the content to progress and see more of it.  and i dont care if you pay for the whole game but at your puny lvl 20 or whatnot cna only see a fraction of whats out there.  go somewhere else, quit whining, and find that easy button.  maybe play doom i hear they have a "God Mode" you might like

troodon
06-04-2007, 01:55 PM
Such a system would be a bad idea

Finora
06-04-2007, 06:56 PM
<p>Have to agree with it being a very bad idea. I'm sure it worked just dandy in COH (I didn't play that game long enough to ever really play with that mechanic). COH is a very different kind of game though. In a game like EQ2 (or WoW or other item centric games) that kind of thing just wouldn't function.</p><p>Due to how gear works in this game, someone in newbie gear would stand very little chance against things at the end game anyhow. They'd be next to useless, unless their gear got magically uberized when they were magically leveled up.</p><p>Why on earth would anyone really want to miss out on a good 90% of the game in the first place? The game doesn't start with end game raid content. There is a whole lot of fun and great content pre-50 in the game. Really is kind of stupid to purposely miss it all. There is enough pre-50 content that you can easily level up at least a couple of characters without having to rehash all the same content. If lower levels actually do the lower level content they can walk away with some really nice gear =p. They wouldn't need special power level instances.</p><p>Seems to me that there are a LOT of new people coming to the game (I've run into a lot of real newbies lately) as well as tons of people returning to EQ2 from other games for the new content in Neriak and Kunark. </p>

Besual
06-05-2007, 04:40 AM
<div align="center"><span style="font-size: xx-large"><span style="color: #ff6600">Hell, no!</span></span> </div>

Kizee
06-05-2007, 10:53 AM
<cite>Azzuth wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm still fairly new to Everquest II, I've been having troubles sticking with any character. It seems like I get them to 25-30 and then get tired of them.  At any rate, I hardly play enough to ever see some of the cooler aspects of the game, and there are so few lower level places of any consequence.  So I've come up with an idea that I'm donating to the development team free of charge, I don't even care if I get any credit for it. All I ask is you implement it. <u>Apprenticeship system</u> - Mentoring allows a Higher level character to help lower levels by reducing their effective level and power.  The apprenticeship system would boost a lower level character in effectiveness allowing them to Apprentice with a higher level character to see higher level game content.  This system would seemingly give lower level character too much power, however that is just illusory.  The lower level character would be naturally restricted by the lack of higher level skills. Sure their skills would be dealing more damage, but for instance, a bruiser could be lacking in Feign Death, making him less effective than a higher level bruiser.  So balancing will be easier than the mentoring system.  Apprenticed players would be less effective than a natural level equivalent.  This system would need to be incentivized for higher level players in a sense, because aside from friends and guilds, why would any higher level character want to have lower levels with them if they are less effective?  Because, they would get an additional experience boost.  Realistically this would make sense.  A person taking on an apprentice would learn as much from the apprentice as the apprentice learns from the master.  Novices offer a different perspective on situations that would allow the more experienced person to gain a new insight on activities that they have become accustomed to. The bonus to the lower level character would be that they would be experiencing more diverse and interesting game locations, and getting a feel for the higher level aspect of the game.  Many casual players are left out of the higher end game, where games really take on their life and excitement, due to a lack of time to devote.  It is unfair and discouraging to these players.  This apprenticeship system would allow those players to have a taste of things to come and perhaps get them more excited and interested in getting to a higher level. This system gives not only those advantages, but some new aspects of world design and playability that have never been explored in a MMO before.  It would allow EQII to attract new players.  The apprenticeship system allows developers to create higher level content designed for lower level character.  This would open a third playing field.  Level 70 or 80 Raids designed to be taken by apprenticed groups that drop fabled gear for lower level character.  Apprenticed dungeons could be set at any level and allow a level of guild interaction that is hitherto unheard of, guilds could recruit players of any level and still include them in raids. You could restrict access to the apprenticed instances by checking to see if the group contains an apprentice.  This would diversify the equipment that lower level players are wearing.  I know I am not the only person sick of wearing crafted generic armor all the way to raid levels.  Low level players deserve decent looking weapons and armor as well. For a player, the apprenticeship system would allow for interesting and diverse gameplay from the get go.  First time players have this luxury for their first character, but after that unless you start in a different town the noob experience is the same grind until you hit 40ish and have more leveling options.  This system opens up development options that have never been explored before allowing an aging game to attract new players, and show the MMO world that EQ2 and SOE are able to break the MMO mold without even having to launch a new title.  This system would work and if implemented well, revitalize this game and make every player as excited as if they were new again. Thanks for your time Zip Daub</blockquote><p> Translation:</p><p>Hi, I don't want to put in any effort to get max level so SoE should add in a reverse mentoring system to make it easy for me (and people like me) to see the higher level stuff.</p><p>I don't know why people don't want to work toward a goal anymore. Whats the point of playing a MMORPG or any game for that matter that you instantly skip to the end?</p><p>If you want to skip to the endgame then get some friends to mentor and PL you to endgame.....not that solo leveling in this game is sickening fast already.</p>

Looth
06-05-2007, 12:12 PM
<div align="center"><span style="font-size: xx-large"><span style="color: #339900"><b>Hell Yes</b></span></span><p>I love this idea.  My brother and I play Everquest 2, but he doesn't play nearly as much as I do.  That means that if I want to continue playing with him from time to time, I have to either play 2 characters (one I level up and one I play with him when he is online) OR I have to simply not play when he is not playing.</p><p>This idea would be awesome becuase it would allow me to continue playing my one character, and still be able to have my brother play with me when he is online.  Mentoring down to his level is possible, but then I have to go through the same low level content I have already gone through.</p><p>Great idea!</p> </div>

ke'la
06-05-2007, 07:29 PM
<cite>Loothur wrote:</cite><blockquote><div align="center"><span style="font-size: xx-large"><span style="color: #339900"><b>Hell Yes</b></span></span> <p>I love this idea.  My brother and I play Everquest 2, but he doesn't play nearly as much as I do.  That means that if I want to continue playing with him from time to time, I have to either play 2 characters (one I level up and one I play with him when he is online) OR I have to simply not play when he is not playing.</p><p>This idea would be awesome becuase it would allow me to continue playing my one character, and still be able to have my brother play with me when he is online.  Mentoring down to his level is possible, but then I have to go through the same low level content I have already gone through.</p><p>Great idea!</p> </div></blockquote><p>Or you could take your brother to some of the other low lvl content you have not done. You can lvl to 50 by going Qeyons Newbe Yards->Ant->TS->Zek->Feer->EF only. You could also go FP->CL->Nek->EL->RV->LS. Thats two completly differant paths in the BASE GAME with never visiting the same zone twice, on top of that you have all of EoF that will get you all the way to 70 without leaving the Faydwar if you want to. Granted excluding Faydwar once you get past 50 you are now funneled into the same areas(DoF and KoS), but as the lvling is slower post 50 and the grouping range is MUCH larger post 50(a lvl 55 toon can group with a 70 and get quest credit without mentoring), its far easier to group with your brother at those lvls.</p><p>IF they where to allow a Sidekicking type set-up the ONLY way I would suport it(eventhough it would not work consitering the way spells and iteams work) would be if it was just the oppisit of mentoring. In other words the High LvL person gets 5% bonus "teaching" XP (the best way to learn something is to teach someone else how to do it) while the Apprentace takes a 50% reduction in XP (as they are leaning on the teacher so much that they don't learn as fast). </p>

FiveFootStep
06-05-2007, 11:17 PM
<cite>kcirrot wrote:</cite><blockquote>This is basically the other half of City of Heroes/Villains Sidekick/Exemplar system.  Everquest2 stole the idea for mentoring from the exemplar half of the system. I'm sorta luke warm on this idea.  I don't care much for sidekicks in CoH/V but I can't deny that it allows guilds and friends to do more content because basically no one is level gated.  You either Sidekick up or the high levels mentor down.  <b>But since there's no real progression to EQ2's content (access quests) anymore, I couldn't see the harm.</b> </blockquote>Well, atleast on the pvp server, there are ways to bug the mentor system so that you stay mentored when you are out of group, I cant imagine that not being taken advantage of in the same way and having level 10 chars farming on aversion with the other bots...

Brorimed
06-06-2007, 05:05 AM
<p>I couldnt help laughing while i read this suggestion .</p><p>Seriously .. It's called leveleing . If you want to do lvl 70 content make a lvl 70 simple as that and be greatfull we have the mentoring system wich is pretty overpowered allready  ( love it though <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ) </p><p>Also there is a HUGE ammount of content for all levels in EQ2 so there sure is enough to do untill you're 70  </p><p>I can see your eagerness to try hard stuff but in my book you will have to work for it like the rest of us does ..</p><p>Yours</p><p>Brorim</p>

TyrAnthraxus
06-06-2007, 01:38 PM
<p>This suggestion is a slap in the face to those who went out and spent countless hours grinding away levels to see top tier content. I am currently working on maxing out raid alts and crafting classes to support my planned guild for RoK (yeah, I plan ahead too far).  If an apprentice system like this came into play, words cannot confer how [Removed for Content] I would be. </p><p> Raiders needing a critical class and don't care if the result is'nt mastered say 'Oh no, no dirge or shaman tonight!!!' Raid leader says 'that's okay, I'll just super buff my level 15 alt!' :<img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> poof:: instant raider. </p><p>Anything worth doing in life as well as in EQ2 takes alot of time, work, and planning. It's the challenges that make the top tier content fun and great. Take that away, and me might just as well play the final version of EQ if stuff like this was implemented:</p><p>Log in</p><p>Roll dice</p><p>You win!!!!</p><p>Log off</p><p>Lame </p>

Jaroth Cloudwalk
06-06-2007, 04:04 PM
<p>I am all for this if they make a couple of changes for people who are "sidekicked":</p><p>1.  Earn no experience.</p><p>2.  Earn no AA.</p><p>3.  All mobs that would aggro them at their regular level still will.</p><p>4.  Can only equip gear based on their real level.</p><p>If someone still wants to do it based on that then I don't have a problem with it.</p>

vladsamier
06-06-2007, 05:02 PM
I hate this idea. I don't think that beefing up lower level characters so they can experience the things that people that put hours and hours into their characters is justified. If you want to play with your friend so bad, have them roll an alt or powerlevel you through mentoring..........

DataOutlaw
06-06-2007, 05:18 PM
<p>This is an awful idea. It completely trivializes 6/7th of the game as if the first 60 levels are pointless and you just want to get to the end game. Some might say that it is "no big deal" to powerlevel up to level 70 anyway but in reality it still represents a commitment to the character to level them up to get to take part in end game content with your friends and that should not be thrown away by something like this. It would make it too easy when a raiding group is missing a healer to just have someone roll up a new Templar and "apprentice up" which in turn would make it harder for casual players to get into pickup groups and raids. </p><p> If you are really "stuck" at level 30 I do have some advice for you. I have a lot of different characters spread over two accounts. Currently I jsut started levelling an Arasai since I did not have a Necro yet and what looks cooler then a Necro with veined batwings? Anyway at one point I too had most of my characters stuck at the ~ level 30 range. Then I discovered Enchanted Lands and Rivervale. The solo quest lines in Enchanted lands are very fun and entertaining. There is also Zek but the quests there feel a lot more like grinding and are not as fun (IMHO). </p>

Hikinami
06-08-2007, 08:58 AM
I'm suprised no one mentioned this yet but would a newbie even know how to handle and play a end game character? Even with uber buffing and scaling gear up I would not want a person only playing for X lvls in my group. Part of leveling up is learning your class. Getting handed a lvl 70 would make you more of a casualty than a help in my opinion...So that kind of negates the playing with new players so they can see end content. And that just leaves alts to be exploited... /sarcasam on Hey can we do this with tradeskills too? I dont want to bother with my 30 carpenter I just want to make straw mats. Cant I apprentice my bud who has a 70 sage? Sorry couldnt resist. I'm up late and that makes me mean >_>

ke'la
06-08-2007, 12:17 PM
<cite>AzSkyDragon wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm suprised no one mentioned this yet but would a newbie even know how to handle and play a end game character? Even with uber buffing and scaling gear up I would not want a person only playing for X lvls in my group. Part of leveling up is learning your class. Getting handed a lvl 70 would make you more of a casualty than a help in my opinion...So that kind of negates the playing with new players so they can see end content. And that just leaves alts to be exploited... /sarcasam on Hey can we do this with tradeskills too? I dont want to bother with my 30 carpenter I just want to make straw mats. Cant I apprentice my bud who has a 70 sage? Sorry couldnt resist. I'm up late and that makes me mean >_> </blockquote> One thing we are all forgeting is that spells DO NOT scale with level(going up), they get replaced so that supped up lvl 25, would still only be doing like 50-100DPS or HPS. Armor also does not Scale up so they would have like have no protection from damage.

AdmiralWilbur
06-10-2007, 04:45 AM
<p>The upper level content should be something you get to experience by putting time into your toon. Reverse mentoring would just cause more people to get bored before they even reach the higher levels.</p>

Zard
06-10-2007, 12:13 PM
<cite>AdmiralWilbur wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>The upper level content should be something you get to experience by putting time into your toon. Reverse mentoring would just cause more people to get bored before they even reach the higher levels.</p></blockquote><p> And this is the primary reason while SOE will never implement it. The longer you play, in terms of renewed subscription months (not in-game hours), the more money they make. Reaching high levels is a carrot to play longer.</p><p>A potential counter to that is restrict it to accounts that already have a max-level character but that somewhat defeats the purpose of allowing a RL friend to join you in high-level dungeons.</p><p>Note that Guild Wars (GW) allows characters to be <i>created</i> at max-level and it still seems to be very popular. There is no subscription fee, however, so "play longer=more money" does not apply there.</p>

Radigazt
06-12-2007, 12:29 AM
<cite>kcirrot wrote:</cite><blockquote>This is basically the other half of City of Heroes/Villains Sidekick/Exemplar system.  Everquest2 stole the idea for mentoring from the exemplar half of the system. I'm sorta luke warm on this idea.  I don't care much for sidekicks in CoH/V but I can't deny that it allows guilds and friends to do more content because basically no one is level gated.  You either Sidekick up or the high levels mentor down.  But since there's no real progression to EQ2's content (access quests) anymore, I couldn't see the harm. </blockquote><p> I played City of Heros basically from release, beta-tested City of Villains (and gave lots of feedback most of which was listened to by the Devs), and played City of Villains for a good while.  Their system of Sidekicking/Exemplaring worked fantastically.  Unfortunately, EQ2 decided to make anyone who mentored down ultra-uber.  This encouraged players to mentor down to help their friends, as the mentoring down character simply dominated all the PvE content.  It was so out of whack, that when the PvP servers launched some people quickly realized that mentored players basically couldn't be killed.  They'd wipe entire groups, often without breaking a sweat.  EQ2 attempted to address this situation (very very very poorly IHO) by tweaking the time it takes to mentor, or only allowing people to heal while mentored, and other really poor solutions.  Eventually, they threw up their hands, gave up entirely, and decided to disable mentoring on PvP servers.  This is what gave rise to the level-locked twinking phenomenon that so many new PvP players have complained about.  </p><p>The moral of this story is simple:  make mentored player the equivalent of the level player they're mentoring down to become.  Do not make them uber.  You can make a sidekicking up system (call it a Squiring system if you prefer) that will work too ... because those players sidekicked up to a higher level will be without some spell lines, additional racial attributes, etc., and thus be inherently weaker than a normal person of their level.  The only problem would be access to AA's for named's and discovery that the Dev's may not want them to have at a lower level.  But, if you FIX THE MENTORING SYSTEM, then many of the negatives of PvP would be solved, and it would pave the way for easily making a system for sidekicking up to a higher level player.  </p><p>Ultimately, we want to encourage people to play together, and the amount of free-time each person spends EQ2'ing varies, so a solid sidekicking/mentoring system makes the playerbase most happy.  </p><p>NOTE:  In CoH/CoV they also have special PvP zones that auto-mentor/auto-sidekick you down/up to a level appropriate for that zone.  So, PvP doesn't consist of orange cons ganking green cons ... everyone is auto-adjusted up or down to the same level, so everyone is a white con.  Out of group healing, exploiting invites of level 70's .... not a problem because everyone will be the same level.  </p>