PDA

View Full Version : No Zoning = No Soloing


HerbertWalker
05-27-2007, 05:29 PM
<p>I fight in T4-T5.  The PvP is even harder to find now, as expected with a change like that.  And soloing is now suicidal.</p><p>I used to be a very aggressive wizard.  People enjoyed fighting me.  I would try almost any solo matchup, because I knew that if someone cheated and started to join into what began as a 1v1 (which happened 90% of the time) I could usually slip away by zoning.  I wasn't afraid to start the party, I would cast on anyone and everyone.  It was fun, because there was lots of action - a PvP system filled with critical flaws, but with lots of action.</p><p>Good times and fun fights, just going to be even rarer now where I PvP.</p><p>Sneaking in, taking out one group member, and escaping used to be a fun unique strategy that added depth to solo PvP.  This strategy is gone unless you totally outmatch your oppenents, in which case you might as well kill them all.  If this strategy is not viable, there will be less action out there.</p><p>I'm not going to scour the corners of the globe only to find a single bot group to gank.</p><p>I'm not going to sit /LFG for hours on the dock.  Sometimes I will find a group, but if not soon then...</p><p>I will just log out.  No one gets to kill me.  How fun is that?  Do you think that is better for T4-T5?</p>

MaNiaGG84
05-27-2007, 05:35 PM
<p>Didn't you state somewhere your so overpowered you'r dropping full grps of enemies left and right? Provement time now <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>No, but seriously ... PvP is killing and getting killed, whats wrong with that? If you attack a grp of ppl it's now either you or them (not that I would like that at all, but thats the way it is now) ;o</p>

HerbertWalker
05-27-2007, 05:43 PM
<p>You are right, solo PvP has been reduced to - try to kill as many of them before you die.</p><p>That's fine if that is how everyone wants the game to be, I guess.  It's not my style.  I thought there was a greater depth when escaping was a practical option.  Less options and more shallow due to that imo.  I will attack and fight a lot less battles because heh no, I never claimed to take on groups, my grandiose claims are all about soloing red con brigands.  Of course I AoE bot groups daily, but that is nothing to write about.</p><p>My character is not possible to be a good solo PvPr anymore.  His main strength after burst dps was escaping.  Now it's burst dps and curl up.  Not the end of the world, but prolly the end of solo fun in the mid tiers.</p>

Nuhus
05-27-2007, 07:16 PM
You can still pick people off. As long as you don't use any form of aoe and hit just 1 group member you end up out of combat after they die. Can zone evac etc.

ltpyromacc
05-27-2007, 10:04 PM
i had the same outlook on evacing= hit and run to large groups while i'm soloing.  If they start taking everything out of the game and balance everything we might as well all roll the exact same characters.

Armawk
05-28-2007, 05:44 AM
<p>Yeah as noted, unless you hit the individual who comes in you can escape once your target is dead. </p>

Norrsken
05-28-2007, 05:59 AM
<cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Yeah as noted, unless you hit the individual who comes in you can escape once your target is dead. </p></blockquote><p>Unless you have a ward or heal or something going when they hit you. Then you will be in combat with them too. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Not that I'd care. I have been eating dust quite a few times on my clothie. </p>

CresentBlade
05-28-2007, 07:08 AM
Reason why pvp is harder to find is because there are entire guilds locking teir 2 and 3. Its the locking that is causing less pvp in that teir not the no zoning.

Cocytus
05-28-2007, 07:11 AM
<p>*shrug* No zoning is just another example of sony dumbing down PVP and catering to idiots who can't figure it out - don't fight by zones.</p><p>Also, it does indeed diminish solo PVP. Say you're soloing with some guy and doing well, then all ofa sudden 3 people come over a hill...It's STUPID that you shouldn't be able to flee to a zone to try and escape.</p>

HerbertWalker
05-28-2007, 09:05 AM
<cite>CresentBlade wrote:</cite><blockquote>Reason why pvp is harder to find is because there are entire guilds locking teir 2 and 3. Its the locking that is causing less pvp in that teir not the no zoning.</blockquote><p> That is your explantion for one day the EL docks being the center of T4-T5 PvP mayhem, and the next day the entire EL being empty, except for one necro hanging around as bait with his group hiding around the corner?</p><p>It's level locking in T2-3?  Has nothing to do with not being able to zone?  That is wrong.  The docks are empty today (when the day before tokens were flying around) because it is infinitely more dangerous for a soloer or small group to attack, or even to let immunity drop, since some players can drag you into combat thus locking you in for your death.</p><p>People don't hang around in the middle of the zone unless they need to do quests, etc.  The folks I fight are not doing quests, they are looking for action.  We hang at chokepoints looking for PvP, because that is where you might find it.</p><p>One week I rack up 50 kills solo, and the very next week I can only gank untitled soloers out doing quests and bot groups?  Those are not satisfying PvP experiences.   I want to fight titled (skilled) yellow/orange/red players, with the ability to escape when their buddies jump into the fray.</p><p>I am totally missing out on the supposed benefits to the new rule.  I see people praising the new rule here, but cannot yet figure out how I could benefit from it.  I never got into a hissy fit if someone escaped, because I always considered it my own fault if someone got away.</p><p>I don't want to set up a zone lock trap group with me as bait.  That will get you like one kill per hour maybe.  And once a player gets caught in this trap, you probably will never catch him again like that, not to mention he is likely to log out and evetually quit the game - because solo PvP will seem so overwhelmingly daunting to him that it is not worth the effort.</p><p>Can those who love the new rule explain how it helps PvP in T4-5?  I can <u>almost</u> understand how it might help with the clouds and stuff, but we don't have clouds in my tiers.</p>

Greeen-_-Ranger
05-28-2007, 09:11 AM
I just want to note that you have a great sense of logic, judging by the way you responded to the 'whole guilds locking in tier 2 / 3' bit.  Bravo.

Amphibia
05-28-2007, 09:22 AM
<cite>Cocytus wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>*shrug* No zoning is just another example of sony dumbing down PVP and catering to idiots who can't figure it out - don't fight by zones.</p><p>Also, it does indeed diminish solo PVP. Say you're soloing with some guy and doing well, then all ofa sudden 3 people come over a hill...It's STUPID that you shouldn't be able to flee to a zone to try and escape.</p></blockquote>Ever tried PvP'ing in KoS before? I didn't think so..... Also - if you kill one target, you will be out of combat again and can flee if you need to. But if you AoE the group however, sorry mate... then you screwed up and will have to take that death.

HerbertWalker
05-28-2007, 09:36 AM
<p>So you don't think it makes sense to allow a player to escape if 5 guys come around the bend?  You have to kill your target first?  Can't just cut and run as soon as you see the trap unfolding?  I'm a wizard, so I'm going to die if I don't abort the original mission and cut and run immediately.</p><p>That's fine if that is your opinion.  Just realize that it drives some players away from the game - quite often the folks it drives away are the type of player that makes the game fun, providing plenty of targets for your enjoyment.  ie.  I am here posting instead of running around causing trouble.</p>

convict
05-28-2007, 09:47 AM
<cite>HerbertWalker wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><b><span style="color: #ff3300">So you don't think it makes sense to allow a player to escape if 5 guys come around the bend?</span></b>  You have to kill your target first?  Can't just cut and run as soon as you see the trap unfolding?  I'm a wizard, so I'm going to die if I don't abort the original mission and cut and run immediately.</p><p>That's fine if that is your opinion.  Just realize that it drives some players away from the game - quite often the folks it <b><span style="color: #ff3300">drives away are the type of player that makes the game fun</span></b>, providing plenty of targets for your enjoyment.  ie.  I am here posting instead of running around causing trouble.</p></blockquote><p> That just does not seem to be the case in your whine. It seems to me that, it's more about, "I cant dock camp, 1 shot someone with my big nuke and then bell hop out".. As far as driving the people away that make the game fun, I dont think so, people who run,zone hop,bell hug dont make the game fun at all. </p><p>Actually, what drives people away from the game are, the "tweaks" who run around in full groups of overpowered wardens killing others in island gear. The no level limit on horses, giving level 12's even more mitigation. The people constantly attacking guards for debt, so they can get even more AA's at level 12.. Those are the people who drive away others who want to pvp. Theres no challenge in attacking others with noob gear and no AA's, but apparently it makes the tweak feel like a god.. That's what drives people away.</p>

Eybietie
05-28-2007, 09:58 AM
<cite>convict wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> <span style="color: #0066ff"><b><span style="font-size: x-small">That just does not seem to be the case in your whine. It seems to me that, it's more about, "I cant dock camp, 1 shot someone with my big nuke and then bell hop out".. As far as driving the people away that make the game fun, I dont think so, people who run,zone hop,bell hug dont make the game fun at all.</span></b> </span></p></blockquote> very nice said.

HerbertWalker
05-28-2007, 10:02 AM
<p>Is there another possible way that a wizard can solo, other than near exit points?  More enemy is coming for sure, so you need to be thinking escape even before your target is dead.</p><p>It's not one shotting - more like 2-6 shotting that I do, depending on the class and color of the target.  And if I see resist, resist, yeah it might be time to escape.  No more - I just won't attack.  I won't even be there to let immunity drop.</p><p>You won't convince me that I wasn't fun to fight.  I know people loved it, because even though I am gray/green I would go for it.  They love that.  No more.</p><p>OK, so maybe this is not a solo game, or perhaps just a fewer number of classes are intended to solo.  That is the whole point of the thread.  Less solo guys running around causing trouble starting gutsy battles.  Even more sitting immune on the dock /lfg until the account gets cancelled.</p><p>Of course the more obvious and bigger force driving away players is in T2-T3.  This thread is a different topic.</p><p>You can call it zone hugging and bell hopping, and you would be correct.  That does not automatically mean that it wasn't fun.  It was.  Explain how to solo as a wizard, or go ahead and agree with me that No Zoning = No Soloing.</p>

Armawk
05-28-2007, 11:54 AM
<cite>HerbertWalker wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Is there another possible way that a wizard can solo, other than near exit points?  More enemy is coming for sure, so you need to be thinking escape even before your target is dead.</p></blockquote><p> Ah</p><p>Look its you the change was aimed at, so of course you arent happy. Yes  you can solo, all over the place, but soloing means a lot of death, for all of us. Those who based their play on exploiting the zone mechanics (which only exist for technical reasons anyway, ideal would be no zones at all) will be annoyed, which is fine. Sorry.</p>

HerbertWalker
05-28-2007, 12:05 PM
<p>So you think that the bait and trap strategy is good for the game?  Or just the better of two evils when compared to having craziness on the docks?</p><p>Being locked into combat when suddenly a raid force comes over the hill is also a mechanic that is exploited, and being able to zone was one work around to defeat such shoddy mechanics.</p>

Armawk
05-28-2007, 01:07 PM
<cite>HerbertWalker wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>So you think that the bait and trap strategy is good for the game?  Or just the better of two evils when compared to having craziness on the docks?</p><p>Being locked into combat when suddenly a raid force comes over the hill is also a mechanic that is exploited, and being able to zone was one work around to defeat such shoddy mechanics.</p></blockquote> Bait and trap is a totally valid tactic (and one i have never used by the way), it makes total sense, is consistent and relies on no mechanics exploits (in fact the mechanics which inform you someone is heroic make it harder)

CresentBlade
05-28-2007, 01:49 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><cite>convict wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> <span style="color: #0066ff"><b><span style="font-size: x-small">That just does not seem to be the case in your whine. It seems to me that, it's more about, "I cant dock camp, 1 shot someone with my big nuke and then bell hop out".. As far as driving the people away that make the game fun, I dont think so, people who run,zone hop,bell hug dont make the game fun at all.</span></b> </span></p></blockquote> very nice said.</blockquote><p>/agree</p><p>This new system has all the hoppers...uh..er...hopping mad?...eheh </p>

Cocytus
05-28-2007, 02:37 PM
I didn't really take KOS into consideration, as there are clouds and lots of them. :p

tass
05-28-2007, 02:37 PM
eh just read the title and enough to know this is a [Removed for Content] whine thread about why cant I zone. If you want to solo or pvp for that matter and you choose to attack 1, you dont get to be a pansy and run away from the rest and use immunity or the im ooc lets get on the nightmare runner and whip the hell away technique. Stop whining and stay there for the show. And for anyone who says oh forget this im canceling theres the door, please stand still so I can kick it into your [Removed for Content] on the way out.

MrMojo
05-28-2007, 03:03 PM
<p>The reason I stopped playing the t4/5 pvp and just lvl'd the up was because the only pvp I could ever find were bell/zone huggers, and even as an assassin, I couldn't damage someone down before they hop'd over.  So I decided that was dumb and boring so I level'd up to t6, which was awesome pvp, and t7 which has had the no cloud hop while engaged (which is like no zoning) implimented for a long time.  </p><p>And the reason you suddenly see a large loss in pvp content is because of the creation of a new race/starting city.  whenever that is done, people log off their mains to check out this new stuff.  even my t7 raiding guild took the week off of raiding to let people check out the new race.  Your loss of pvp has nothing to do with level lockers or the no-zone rule.. it is because everyone is in neriak! In fact there are so many there SoE put in a zone line to help go between the instances.  give it some time, usually a few weeks, and it will all return to normal.</p>

Cantilena
05-28-2007, 07:10 PM
<p>So...  People are afraid that now they will start a 1v1 fight, and their buddies will zone in after the fight starts to beat them down?</p><p>MOVE AWAY FROM THE ZONE LINE.</p><p>I know many people have spent their entire gaming experience at zone lines, and it's a hard habit to break.  But sheesh.  If you aren't near the zone line, then the person you are fighting WILL have that little "heroic" marking on them, right?  If you solo attack someone who is grouped, then you had better kill fast so your combat breaks, and get out of there, or take the beat down you just asked for.</p><p>And those who are looking for "choke points" where there are plentiful targets, use a little more imagination.  There are lots of them if you would only try travelling somewhere without buying a ticket to take a bell to your little immunity docks where apparently you have spent the entire game.</p>

HerbertWalker
05-28-2007, 09:42 PM
<p>There are not enough people out there to hunt.  I scour the globe and find a couple kills.  It was more fun fighting in the mayhem that was bell hop central.</p>

CresentBlade
05-28-2007, 10:37 PM
<cite>HerbertWalker wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>So you don't think it makes sense to allow a player to escape if 5 guys come around the bend?  You have to kill your target first?  Can't just cut and run as soon as you see the trap unfolding?  I'm a wizard, so I'm going to die if I don't abort the original mission and cut and run immediately. <span style="color: #6600ff">You turn around and whoop those 5 players butt and make them run, at least take one with you.</span></p><p>That's fine if that is your opinion.  Just realize that it drives some players away from the game - quite often the folks it drives away are the type of player that makes the game fun, providing plenty of targets for your enjoyment.  ie.  I am here posting instead of running around causing trouble.</p></blockquote>

Rufio
05-29-2007, 12:13 AM
<cite>HerbertWalker wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I fight in T4-T5.  <u>The PvP is even harder to find now</u><span style="color: #0000ff"> (I can`t gank solo greens anymore cause they`re grouped now)</span>, as expected with a change like that.  And <u>soloing is now suicidal</u><span style="color: #0000ff">(I can`t zone like the wimp I was ganking greens and running if it got too hot or OMG they were twinked better than me)</span>.</p><p>I used to be a very aggressive wizard <span style="color: #0000cc">(I thought I was t3h PWNer of n00bs and so l33t, but as you know I am wrong)</span>.  People enjoyed fighting me <span style="color: #0000ff">(Cause I wasn`t as l33t as I thought I was ppl loved ganking me, I`m a clothy afterall)</span>.  I would <u>try</u> almost any <u>solo matchup</u>, because I knew that if someone <u>cheated</u> and started to join into what began as a 1v1 (<u>which happened 90% of the time</u>) <u>I could usually slip away by zoning </u><span style="color: #0000ff">(I used to pick on lower lvls, usually solo greens a minimum 5 lvls below my lvl and definately unpartied because I might not pwn as hard if they were grouped and that would be cheating if they ever had the advantage on me (which happened 90% of the time), if I got my a$$ handed to me (which happened 99% of the time) I would zone like a girl, screaming and flailing my arms)</span>.  I wasn't afraid to start the party, I would cast on anyone and everyone <span style="color: #0000cc">(I would start a party if they were green and not twinked).</span>  It was fun, because there was lots of action - a PvP system filled with critical flaws, but with lots of action <span style="color: #000099">(I got pwned most of the time and like to pretend I was t3h b0mb, the flaws are what I blame when I lose or get ganked in return).</span></p><p>Good times and fun fights, just going to be even rarer now where I PvP. <span style="color: #0000cc">(The lowbies and easy target solo greens wisened up and are now grouped, woe is me)</span></p><p>Sneaking in, taking out one group member, and escaping <u>used to be a fun unique strategy</u> that <u>added depth to solo PvP</u>.  This strategy is gone unless you <u>totally outmatch your oppenents</u>, in which case you might as well kill them all.  If this strategy is not viable, there will be less action out there. <span style="color: #0000cc">(What a n00b I am, the depth and unique stratedgy of ganking newbies in twinked out AA maxed toons adds so much depth to PvP, what was I thinking all these years)</span></p><p>I'm not going to scour the corners of the globe only to find a <u>single bot group</u> to gank. <span style="color: #0000ff">(How can I call myself uber if I just go around ganking bots all the time, I need to gank on players so they know my name a$ t3h PWN3r...........but that would never happen because I only gank solo and bot groups anyway, oh bother.../sigh )</span></p><p>I'm not going to sit /LFG for hours on the dock.  Sometimes I will find a group, but if not soon then...</p><p>I will just log out.  No one gets to kill me.  How fun is that?  Do you think that is better for T4-T5?</p><p><span style="color: #0000ff">(I am making a statement that the whole community will relate to so ppl actually respond to my babble, I might be lacking attention from sibling or parent and cry out for it by making "t3h PWN3er" and then crying how I can`t zone like a girl anymore making me an easy target for the real PvPers on the server, you know....the ones with rank and KvD that actually solo.)</span></p></blockquote>There you go I fixed it, not broken anymore. /noob

Captain Apple Darkberry
05-29-2007, 12:59 AM
<span style="color: #ff3300">This is the first time I've heard someone call running to immunity like a coward "...more depth in the game".</span>

Bawang
05-29-2007, 03:21 AM
<p>I play a 70 wizzie and I solo PvP all the time in Nagafen.  I've never hung around zones.  That just seems sissy to me.  I go all the way into zones looking for unwary victim.  I'll stand up to anyone 1v1.  If they kill me I'll make a note of their class and learn from the loss.  So this change is welcome for me because I'm losing nothing and gaining the ability to catch those who would previously have zoned away, and heaven knows there many many of those.  </p><p>Will there be less solo PvP with this change? I don't know.  I hope not.  </p>

Norrsken
05-29-2007, 04:17 AM
<cite>Bawang wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I play a 70 wizzie and I solo PvP all the time in Nagafen.  I've never hung around zones.  That just seems sissy to me.  I go all the way into zones looking for unwary victim.  I'll stand up to anyone 1v1.  If they kill me I'll make a note of their class and learn from the loss.  So this change is welcome for me because I'm losing nothing and gaining the ability to catch those who would previously have zoned away, and heaven knows there many many of those.  </p><p>Will there be less solo PvP with this change? I don't know.  I hope not.  </p></blockquote>Agree wtih this dude. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Meh, mages die so easily its not even worth trying to run, at least in my opinion. Just be that glass cannon you are supposed to be and take as many with you as you have time to. Soloing isnt one bit less valid for me on my necro nowadays, and I know, I know, necros arent wizzies. I dont get any crazy regenerating self wards or mana shields. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

HerbertWalker
05-29-2007, 08:53 PM
<p>All of you have been so polite and thoughtful that I considered every opinion.  I came to the conclusion that you guys are right.</p><p>I can solo just as effectively now.</p><p>There is more PvP, not less!</p><p>This change does not at all discourage the underdog from attacking, nor does it discourage an uncertain battle from occuring.</p><p>In short, the solo PvP experience is way more adrenaline pumping, intense action than it ever was.  But hey I think standing around red cons staring at them is way more fun than attacking them.  I didn't know that about myself until I tried it this weekend.  Normally I would try to gank the F out of a red con, and if it went badly try to escape.  How shallow that was.  The game has much greater depth if you just stand around immune, or if you attack red cons and just die if a resisted spell happens.</p>

xfbishop
05-30-2007, 07:42 AM
<cite>HerbertWalker wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> Normally I would try to gank the F out of a red con, and if it went badly try to escape.  How shallow that was.  </p></blockquote>now you are gettin it! if you have the balls to start a fight, at least have the balls to finish the [Removed for Content] thing, get out with you're pansy tactics, i solo constantly with a warlock and actually *gasp* not at zone lines. btw death happens, debt means almost nothing since it works out so quick, take a dirtnap and deal with it.

Eybietie
05-30-2007, 07:57 AM
i think he tried to use sarcasm on this one.

Killque
05-30-2007, 10:48 AM
<cite>HerbertWalker wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>You are right, solo PvP has been reduced to - try to kill as many of them before you die.</p><p>That's fine if that is how everyone wants the game to be, I guess.  It's not my style.  I thought there was a greater depth when escaping was a practical option.  Less options and more shallow due to that imo.  I will attack and fight a lot less battles because heh no, I never claimed to take on groups, my grandiose claims are all about soloing red con brigands.  Of course I AoE bot groups daily, but that is nothing to write about.</p><p>My character is not possible to be a good solo PvPr anymore.  His main strength after burst dps was escaping.  Now it's burst dps and curl up.  Not the end of the world, but prolly the end of solo fun in the mid tiers.</p></blockquote><p> PvP is killing and getting killed... not having someone sitting unimune in the water near the docks and then having the other 5 from their party zone in as soon as you enage...</p><p>Solo PvP has definatly been hanicaped, but maybe that is what they intended.</p><p>Anywho, ill continue to do what im doing... and thats mostly solo with the occasional group.</p><p>IMO the new PvP zone rules offer benifits and drawbacks. I cant say which one I feel more strongly about yet but it is a sure thing that this new rule is going to bring about lots of exploiting like the one mentioned above.</p>

SoulfireUK
05-31-2007, 05:50 AM
<p>For some of you this new rule maybe be hell but for me its what I have been waiting for. I dont really care about tiltles or pvp kill / death ratio. </p><p><span style="color: #cc0000">What I do enjoy is the fight.</span> As I have no intention to rush to T7, I have spent my time creating level locked twinks at 12, 17 and 25. The 12 and 17 did involve dieing to guards to get exp debt, did the history books etc to get AA and making MC where I couldn't find fabled or legendary items. Then I adorn the lot. And before you jump on some high horse about ganking island wearing lowbies, these toons have been made to fight other level locked twinks. Those players that have done the same dull and painstaking grinding aa and come to fight in Freeport noob zones. Until recently this involved some Q's ganking then zone hoping as the zones where small enough to run away in as soon as it looked like they may die. Now they have to box clever and risk dieing to gank. This is seperating the men from the boys. This is clear in that  I haven't seen several renowned gankers in these noob zones since stopping zone hopping.</p><p>Those that do brave the noob zones are worht the fight and prove they have the balls to stand and die or gank and win lol</p><p>So thanks SOE for supporting t2&t3 level locked twink battles and making players realise that pvp death is now a reality.  (sorry to the rest of you that used zone hopping as a battle tactic =P) </p>

HerbertWalker
05-31-2007, 08:18 PM
<p>Are you in agreement with me that the new rule discourages fighting more than it encourages it?  Like you said, you have not seen those noob zone gankers since the patch.  Same thing going on in T4-5.  Not enough people to fight.</p><p>I understand why your battles are more meaningful now.  My point is that the battles are far fewer because the rule discourages a gray from attacking a red (and so on, extrapolate that to orange vs green, yellow vs blue, 1v2, x2vx4.)  I used to attack red cons all day every day, winning maybe 10% of those battles.  Now I have to eat a death for the 90% (instead of escaping.)  It is not worth it because a red con fight is usually lopsided, and so it's not fun to just die - that is way too often.  Only rarely is it a close fight or a win, and thus fun, but usually it is so lopsided that it is not fun after you've done it a couple times.  But it's better than standing around staring at the sky - provided you can get away and pop right back with a smile without having suffered a humiliating respawn in front of your enemy.  You basically won if a red con brigand couldn't keep you from escaping.</p><p>Since I play for fun and to fight tons of battles, the new rule severely limits my solo PvP options.  It does not prevent anyone from attacking a red con, but severely discourages it - which is not a side-effect that was needed at all.  This thread is about a negative side-effect, not about the good that the change brought.  I have swayed some of you who have read this thread - some folks had no idea that there were solo guys out there past T2, not a predator or druid, causing all kinds of mayhem and trouble, and who provided enjoyment for the enemy to try to gank.</p><p>Many of you don't agree with my idea of fun, but many of my opponents definately did.  I know that, and now they won't have this gray con wizard trying his hand at them ever again.  Almost anything is more fun than scouring the globe for a fight, or waiting on the EL docks for a fight.  Popping in and having a go at someone who should wipe the floor with you 90% of the time was a practical option before.  Now it will be very very rare.</p><p>I know, I know, you are all glad.  But if this has an effect of reducing PvP significantly, I assume that you would not be glad.  Only time will tell.  I'm just calling it out right now for what I am seeing at the moment, being the hunter and the hunted myself, who now barely ever logs in.  Like many gankers who brought fun to most who came in contact with them, I have not played much lately.  It's really not much fun if you die 50 times in a  night just because you had the "balls" to attack someone who has an extreme advantage over you.</p><p>If it has not pushed them off the server to another game, the change encourages many gankers to move to a lower tier.  Therefore, I fail to see how the change is 100% a good thing all around.  Though I do recognize some of the good it brought, I think the bad outweighs it - for everyone in the long run, unless some additional coding changes are to be added in the future that again start to encourage fighting a low odds or even odds battle.  Right now, an even odds battle is way more risky for all parties involved, obviously because both parties are locked in the zone (while there are gank squads out running around.)  I did not think we needed yet another reason not to do battle.</p>

Armawk
05-31-2007, 08:39 PM
<cite>HerbertWalker wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I used to attack red cons all day every day, winning maybe 10% of those battles.  Now I have to eat a death for the 90% (instead of escaping.)  It is not worth it because a red con fight is usually lopsided, and so it's not fun to just die - that is way too often.  </p></blockquote><p> Gods. Thats how it SHOULD work. YOu attack reds  you are mostly going to DIE. any mechanism that resulted in  you mostly not dieing was stupid..</p><p>And no, there isnt less PVP now.</p>

silentpsycho
06-01-2007, 12:09 AM
<cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>HerbertWalker wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I used to attack red cons all day every day, winning maybe 10% of those battles.  Now I have to eat a death for the 90% (instead of escaping.)  It is not worth it because a red con fight is usually lopsided, and so it's not fun to just die - that is way too often.  </p></blockquote><p> Gods. Thats how it SHOULD work. YOu attack reds  you are mostly going to DIE. any mechanism that resulted in  you mostly not dieing was stupid..</p><p>And no, there isnt less PVP now.</p></blockquote>Agree 100%.  Well said.

CresentBlade
06-01-2007, 12:47 AM
<cite>silentpsycho wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>HerbertWalker wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I used to attack red cons all day every day, winning maybe 10% of those battles.  Now I have to eat a death for the 90% (instead of escaping.)  It is not worth it because a red con fight is usually lopsided, and so it's not fun to just die - that is way too often.  </p></blockquote><p> Gods. Thats how it SHOULD work. YOu attack reds  you are mostly going to DIE. any mechanism that resulted in  you mostly not dieing was stupid..</p><p>And no, there isnt less PVP now.</p></blockquote>Agree 100%.  Well said. </blockquote> /Agree as well