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View Full Version : Dear SoE. Please fix T7 PvP


badbeeker
05-25-2007, 08:43 PM
<p>Dear Devs,</p><p>Im not sure as to who or how often the people in development read these forums but I would just like to express my concern for the current balance in Tier 7 PvP. The new expansion has been announced and I really think some drastic changes need to be addressed before the level cap rises another 10 levels.</p><p> Currently Scout classes dominate pvp, their damage is unmatched, their tools and abilities are perfect for PvP where many other classes fall short. From my own personal experience I play a lvl 70 swash and a level 70 warlock. The 2 classes just can not compare in pvp. I hear people state often that classes such as "warlocks" are a group class and people shouldnt complain when they get destroyed by scouts. One of the largest issues I see atm is resists. My Swash can destroy almost anything he's put up against where as my warlock (who is fully mastered) will have a good 3 out of 5 spells resisted. Any caster out there can tell you that even one resist can mean certain death in pvp.</p><p>So please, I implore you, look at the current state of T7 PvP, address a lot of the concerns we as a player base are having before you up the levels again. Im sure a lot of us will be happy with some fixes to the non scout classes.</p>

CresentBlade
05-25-2007, 08:46 PM
<cite>badbeeker wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Dear Devs,</p><p>Im not sure as to who or how often the people in development read these forums but I would just like to express my concern for the current balance in Tier 7 PvP. The new expansion has been announced and I really think some drastic changes need to be addressed before the level cap rises another 10 levels.</p><p> Currently Scout classes dominate pvp, their damage is unmatched, their tools and abilities are perfect for PvP where many other classes fall short. From my own personal experience I play a lvl 70 swash and a level 70 warlock. The 2 classes just can not compare in pvp. I hear people state often that classes such as "warlocks" are a group class and people shouldnt complain when they get destroyed by scouts. One of the largest issues I see atm is resists. My Swash can destroy almost anything he's put up against where as my warlock (who is fully mastered) will have a good 3 out of 5 spells resisted. Any caster out there can tell you that even one resist can mean certain death in pvp.</p><p>So please, I implore you, look at the current state of T7 PvP, address a lot of the concerns we as a player base are having before you up the levels again. Im sure a lot of us will be happy with some fixes to the non scout classes.</p></blockquote><p>/agree</p><p>Good idea to get everything up and running right before adding more. </p>

Image_Vain
05-25-2007, 09:21 PM
everything is working as intended

dr4gonUK
05-25-2007, 11:09 PM
<p>Stop judging the game and class balance based on your solo v group experiences.</p><p>If your group dies it means their group was better, all things being equal numbers wise, i.e 6v6 not 4v6.</p><p>Group more, cry on forums less.</p><p>T7 pvp is fine, for the 90% gankage it is.</p>

Myxzptlk
05-25-2007, 11:56 PM
as a zerker i take out i would say the majority of scouts i fight. Sure, some i can't beat, and some get me as much as i get them, but i dont think i should be unbeatable and have honestly not had any problems with any particular scout class. Some brigs hand me my [Removed for Content], i hand there arses to some brigs, sames for assassins and bards... well, less bards do the [Removed for Content] handing, but stilll... in anycase, i havent fought swash's/rangers as i'm good, but even still i'd say that you have to work hard and develop tactics and such, with these two things you can probably beat any given class, though not any given player, if you do it right.

deepruntramp
05-26-2007, 12:56 AM
I agree completely. Non-Bard Scouts are massively overpowered in a "how did this get past testing" way. From a PvP standpoint, it is utterly absurd to grant Stealth, Track, Track Stealth/Invis, Movespeed Buffs, and more to the #1 undisputed PvP DPS classes, while simultaneously making them free of the kind of bias spellcasters face in gear with overpowered resists in PvP situations. Of course, there are still a zillion other PvP problems, like AA not being tied to player level at all, mounts which don't have level requirements, etc. I don't know what needs to be addressed first -- the no-zoning is certainly a step in the right direction, but I'm not entirely sure where to go from here.

Oneira
05-26-2007, 02:08 AM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>as a zerker i take out i would say the majority of scouts i fight. Sure, some i can't beat, and some get me as much as i get them, but i dont think i should be unbeatable and have honestly not had any problems with any particular scout class. Some brigs hand me my [Removed for Content], i hand there arses to some brigs, sames for assassins and bards... well, less bards do the [Removed for Content] handing, but stilll... in anycase, i havent fought swash's/rangers as i'm good, but even still i'd say that you have to work hard and develop tactics and such, with these two things you can probably beat any given class, though not any given player, if you do it right. </blockquote> And it's precisely those 2 scout classes that you don't fight that are the toughest: Ranger and Swash.  Of the 4 major (i.e. non bard scout classes), Assassins are a distant 4th in the pecking order.  Assassins must get up there down and dirty and fight close up.  That means that you as a zerker can actually hit them.  Swashies are near unbeatable now with en garde, inspiration and reach (that = T1 dps), plus the normal things rogues get: snares, multiple stuns, good mit, good health. Rangers are wizards tha can't be interrupted and have half the cast times, plus the snares, plus the run speeds.  Unlike assassins you rarely get close enough to fight a ranger before you're in the red, if at all. Brigands despite the debuff nerfs are still plenty tough with their chain stuns, etc. Assassins are probably the only halfway balanced class of the 4 now.  Sure, they can do a lot of single target damage, but they pay for it by having to go toe to toe, and they don't have near the health and mit that a swash or brigand does.  ANd if the 40% max damage on a single hit goes through, decapitate will no longer be feared by anyone. Some of the other posters are right, they have just given too much to rogues and predators from the start.  the EOF changes allowing more IC and OC combat speeds, plus certain AAs (like reach) pushed it over the edge. CAs vs. spells.  SOE has never redressed this imbalance.  It is wrong that CA using classes can zip off all their CA without interruption in 10 seconds or less where spellcasters have to fight to get one, maybe 2 off in that time. Tracking.  Flawless tracking is too big of an advantage and unnecessary.  Why should scouts have flawless tracking?  Is there any good reason for such a huge advantage over other classes?  Actually, of all the classes it's mages that should have some form of enhanced sense that lets them know that an enemy is nearby. Run speeds + snares.  It's not one, it's both that are unbalancing.  Roots have an immunity timer once they wear off.  Not snares.  Many scouts have multiple snares.  It means pretty much they can get to you or keep you at a distance as they choose. Diversion.  This is always been a pet peeve of mine.  It's rogues and predators again that on top of everything else have the ability to make you lose target and mistarget.  THis I just don't get.  Once again, if any class should have the ability to throw you off target it should be mages, not scouts.  Sorcerors get blink....oh wow. Resists.  Yes spells should be resisted, but the rate is totally out of hand.  Mit.  THe diminishing returns curve favors the chain-wearing classes like scouts once again at the expense of plate-wearing, mit buffing classes like guardians.

Saintedone
05-26-2007, 03:46 AM
<p> /agree</p><p> You notice the ranger there everythings fine in PVP, lol - scouts..</p><p>Anyone that can post to a pvp board in T7 and say "everythings fine" hasnt looked at there combat logs, and if they have there just trying to be the best ganker/campers out there, looking out for themselves and not the game.</p><p>The game is progressing, as it moves forward CA's vrs Spell Casting becomes completely outta line by T7 - it will only get worse in further exspantions and updates. The simple facts are CA's dont get resisted by casters wearing cloth because of the new mit system. The CA based classes have AA lines to help them hit harder, more often, and faster. Lastly the CA based classes wear gear that resist 40-70% of all caster spells sometimes as high as 90%. The next 10 levels will serve as nothing more than further gap in the pvp.</p><p>The answer is to revamp casters in pvp as well as add real pvp gear for pvp (not spell enhancement = stupid in pvp) add real CA resist gear as drops to the game on pvp servers and finally make caster AA lines for pvp. We dont mind loosing some damage to be able to survive for more than 3 secs in a pvp fight.</p><p>If a caster gets resisted same level 1v1 40-70% of the time do to gear thats drops off almost every named in the game. Why can casters get gear that resist CA's 40-70% off the time on the pvp servers???</p>

Image_Vain
05-26-2007, 04:18 AM
No one is overpowered, no one needs to be nerfed and everyone just needs to shut up.

yellowbelly08
05-26-2007, 08:48 AM
<p>Personally i think the classes are pretty well balanced and with the new no zoning system we are finally at our final destination pvp wise. If you ever parsed a raid v raid pvp fight you would notice that Warlocks double the dps of all other classes they have real purpose. I would always like to have  Wizard in my optimal pvp grp setup. Sure only scouts may be able to solo effectively-if you want to solo roll a scout. A Guardian beat me solo the other day. All classes can beat all classes given optimal attention to gear tactics and skill imo and as t7 pvp is mainly intended to be grp based all classes have real worth.</p><p>Galoro</p>

D-DevilK
05-26-2007, 08:58 AM
<cite>Image_Vain wrote:</cite><blockquote>No one is overpowered, no one needs to be nerfed and everyone just needs to shut up. </blockquote>How about you learn to contribute to a discussion effectively rather than being a [Removed for Content].

dr4gonUK
05-26-2007, 09:30 AM
<cite>Saintedone wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> You notice the ranger there everythings fine in PVP, lol - scouts..</p></blockquote><p> At least im not some anon posting scrub. I play guardian and templar too, so what !!!</p><p>Fact is, people get killed in pvp then come here and post biased views.</p><p>If you put the effort into gearing your toon and playing to class strengths i doubt you would need to come on the forums saying t7 pvp is broken. </p><p>I dont like getting killed in 5 seconds either, but that doesnt mean the class that killed me needs nerfing.</p><p>Sorry if i appear hostile, but noob threads like this get repetitive and deconstructive.</p>

Image_Vain
05-26-2007, 10:06 AM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote> How about you learn to contribute to a discussion effectively rather than being a [I cannot control my vocabulary]. </blockquote>As far as I am concerned, sir, you need to shut up to, classes are fine and don't need fixin, except, some of the caster classes... Oh yeah, I don't see you posting anything constructive, so who is the one thats not contributing? lol kids these days........

MokiCh
05-26-2007, 11:16 AM
Oneira wrote: <blockquote>CAs vs. spells.  SOE has never redressed this imbalance.  It is wrong that CA using classes can zip off all their CA without interruption in 10 seconds or less where spellcasters have to fight to get one, maybe 2 off in that time. <span style="color: #ff0000">The difference between combat arts and spells is that if you miss a combat art, guess what? You missed, and you have to wait the full cooldown timer of that art before you can try again. If a spell gets resisted, no problem; just wait a second or two and try again. This is a game mechanic that I think is working very well because I was around when CA's took 3 or 4 seconds to cast, and it sucked, let me tell you. Mage getting beat on and your taunt is a 3 second cast? Have fun with that.</span> Tracking.  Flawless tracking is too big of an advantage and unnecessary.  Why should scouts have flawless tracking?  Is there any good reason for such a huge advantage over other classes?  Actually, of all the classes it's mages that should have some form of enhanced sense that lets them know that an enemy is nearby. <span style="color: #ff0000">Group utility. The main reason any decent pvp group wants a scout is because they can track. If it wasn't for track, most people would prefer to run with mages because their damage comes in far larger bursts and they dont need stealth, or to be behind a guy to do it.</span> Run speeds + snares.  It's not one, it's both that are unbalancing.  Roots have an immunity timer once they wear off.  Not snares.  Many scouts have multiple snares.  It means pretty much they can get to you or keep you at a distance as they choose. <span style="color: #ff0000">Snares also have recasts, and you can buy cure potions to get the snare off you.</span> Diversion.  This is always been a pet peeve of mine.  It's rogues and predators again that on top of everything else have the ability to make you lose target and mistarget.  THis I just don't get.  Once again, if any class should have the ability to throw you off target it should be mages, not scouts.  Sorcerors get blink....oh wow. <span style="color: #ff0000">No, enchanters get blink, and it's about the only defense we have in PvP, and a fairly useless one at that. Diversion is the standard deagro spell that *all* scouts share, just like all tanks get taunts. And yes, it drops your target, just like stealth, feign death, and a healers deagro spell, so deal with it. Make yourself a "target next PvP" button, and when they drop, hit it. It works wonders.</span> Resists.  Yes spells should be resisted, but the rate is totally out of hand. <span style="color: #ff0000">Sadly, I'm again forced to agree. With 400ish subjugation, and mostly master spells on average 3 out of 5 spells I cast still get resisted, especially my stuns or roots.</span> Mit.  THe diminishing returns curve favors the chain-wearing classes like scouts once again at the expense of plate-wearing, mit buffing classes like guardians. <span style="color: #ff0000">I'd love to have a guardian with me every time I go out PvPing. Try wearing cloth for a week and then come back and complain about dropping fast.</span> </blockquote>

Echgar
05-26-2007, 11:37 AM
A couple words of caution... Using phrases like "shut up" on the forums as if you were telling your cat to stop meowing while you're on the phone (not that I have had that experience lately -- ahem) doesn't always come across the same way in writing and can sound downright hostile without the body language, inflection, tone, etc. that people use in person to convey true intent.  It is better to just not post like that and instead be constructive and respectful of others.  Disagreeing is fine, but avoid creating flame bait! The other thing is as stated in the <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=176" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">forum rules</a>, threads addressed to the Community or Development teams will most likely not be responded to. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Magius789
05-26-2007, 02:55 PM
<cite>Echgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>A couple words of caution... Using phrases like "shut up" on the forums as if you were telling your cat to stop meowing while you're on the phone (not that I have had that experience lately -- ahem) doesn't always come across the same way in writing and can sound downright hostile without the body language, inflection, tone, etc. that people use in person to convey true intent.  It is better to just not post like that and instead be constructive and respectful of others.  Disagreeing is fine, but avoid creating flame bait! <b><span style="color: #cc0000">The other thing is as stated in the </span></b><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=176" target="_blank" rel="nofollow"><b><span style="color: #cc0000">forum rules</span></b></a><b><span style="color: #cc0000">, threads addressed to the Community or Development teams will most likely not be responded to. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span></b></blockquote><p> Because they don't care!   Thanks for your money.</p><p>**showing body launguage, inflection, and tone that I'm joking***  <img src="/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Oneira
05-27-2007, 03:22 AM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>Oneira wrote: <blockquote>CAs vs. spells.  SOE has never redressed this imbalance.  It is wrong that CA using classes can zip off all their CA without interruption in 10 seconds or less where spellcasters have to fight to get one, maybe 2 off in that time. <span style="color: #ff0000">The difference between combat arts and spells is that if you miss a combat art, guess what? You missed, and you have to wait the full cooldown timer of that art before you can try again. If a spell gets resisted, no problem; just wait a second or two and try again. This is a game mechanic that I think is working very well because I was around when CA's took 3 or 4 seconds to cast, and it sucked, let me tell you. Mage getting beat on and your taunt is a 3 second cast? Have fun with that.</span> Tracking.  Flawless tracking is too big of an advantage and unnecessary.  Why should scouts have flawless tracking?  Is there any good reason for such a huge advantage over other classes?  Actually, of all the classes it's mages that should have some form of enhanced sense that lets them know that an enemy is nearby. <span style="color: #ff0000">Group utility. The main reason any decent pvp group wants a scout is because they can track. If it wasn't for track, most people would prefer to run with mages because their damage comes in far larger bursts and they dont need stealth, or to be behind a guy to do it.</span> Run speeds + snares.  It's not one, it's both that are unbalancing.  Roots have an immunity timer once they wear off.  Not snares.  Many scouts have multiple snares.  It means pretty much they can get to you or keep you at a distance as they choose. <span style="color: #ff0000">Snares also have recasts, and you can buy cure potions to get the snare off you.</span> Diversion.  This is always been a pet peeve of mine.  It's rogues and predators again that on top of everything else have the ability to make you lose target and mistarget.  THis I just don't get.  Once again, if any class should have the ability to throw you off target it should be mages, not scouts.  Sorcerors get blink....oh wow. <span style="color: #ff0000">No, enchanters get blink, and it's about the only defense we have in PvP, and a fairly useless one at that. Diversion is the standard deagro spell that *all* scouts share, just like all tanks get taunts. And yes, it drops your target, just like stealth, feign death, and a healers deagro spell, so deal with it. Make yourself a "target next PvP" button, and when they drop, hit it. It works wonders.</span> Resists.  Yes spells should be resisted, but the rate is totally out of hand. <span style="color: #ff0000">Sadly, I'm again forced to agree. With 400ish subjugation, and mostly master spells on average 3 out of 5 spells I cast still get resisted, especially my stuns or roots.</span> Mit.  THe diminishing returns curve favors the chain-wearing classes like scouts once again at the expense of plate-wearing, mit buffing classes like guardians. <span style="color: #ff0000">I'd love to have a guardian with me every time I go out PvPing. Try wearing cloth for a week and then come back and complain about dropping fast.</span> </blockquote> </blockquote>Some good points Pocketlint, and some follow-up replies. CAs vs. Spells:  that's not exactly true.  If the spell is interrupted it does automatically start again, once or twice, and then it fails.  That "recycling" happens a lot.  There is just no comparison between the long casting times + interruptions + restart and a failed CA.  WIth the former you are talking about anywhere from 5-10 seconds.  Believe me I know, I saw it yesterday on my inquisitor who watched his single target reactive heal get constantly interrupted which led to an average casting time of 5 secs or more.  On the other hand, if the CA is parried or misses, you're right, it's done.  However consider how many CAs most melee classes have!  your knockdown misses..hey np!  you have 1 or 2 stuns.....I don't think the situation is nearly as equal it should be. Tracking: of course it's a great group utility, but should it be flawless? Snares: yes you can, but there's no immunity timer and many classes have multiple snares. Diversion: i have such a button believe me, but the problem is that this one actually can make you target another mob.  Like you said, blink is a sad second to this skill.  What i sad was...shouldn't it be mages that have something like this?  Since they wear cloth, shouldn't they have various means of "diverting" attacks from themselves rather than scouts? Mit: That is not the point.   Scouts should not have anywhere close to a plate tank's mit, period.  But some do--rogues to be precise.  Plate tanks drop faster than you think they do.  You'd be surprised how fast a ranger or swash can knock my 70 guardian's health down.  Sure, in groups we do well with a healer behind us, but don't think for half a second that an equivalent group can't focus on the MT and take me down pretty fast.

Soulhunt
05-27-2007, 06:18 AM
<p>first off i like to say that except for a few abilties....everything can be countered. stealth/invis u can use  totems and potions for countering almost any spell. the reason i state this is because i m getting tired of people saying well a scout can go stealth ,a scout can see invis or stealth etc. all classes can! if they got the right items to use.</p><p>the one and only true thing that allows a scout to solo better then any other class is TRACKING.</p><p>i dont want to hear well track needs nerfing either....if u dont have tracking then find a scout to go pvp with...after all it is a group game and not solo game.</p><p>we all know resists are 'broken' in t7...err i should say that they not broke as much as people say but that soe decided to increase the resists of collections type gear to an astounding level....this gear is better then most fable raid jewelry. example most well geared toons in the t1 to t6 ranges CANT get thier resists to more then 50% [and 50% is hard if ur not a healer] thus making healers and mages very tough at lower levels.....but at t7 toons can run around with <span style="color: #ff0000">ALL</span> their resists 60% and higher. think the gear is as much to blame about the balancing of this game as anything else.</p><p>i think soe made a major oversight when they changed mitigations and didnt change physical damages. they effectivly made the melee classes hit harder and made for fights to be shorter. i thought the idea was to lengthen the fights so that skills and tactics where more important and not button mashing. guess i was wrong.</p><p>its sad that a brig/swashy can have almost as much mitigation as a tank class and the crazy dps too.</p><p>SOULHUNTER</p><p>p.s. i did like to add one last thought.....how about a 40% across the board damage reduction on ALL SPELLS ,MELEE ATTACKS, HEALS  and reduce the resists on the collection items that are more like fabled then the treasured tag they hold. please let me know ur thoughts on this idea.</p>

Image_Vain
05-27-2007, 06:39 AM
<cite>Echgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>A couple words of caution... Using phrases like "shut up" on the forums as if you were telling your cat to stop meowing while you're on the phone (not that I have had that experience lately -- ahem) doesn't always come across the same way in writing and can sound downright hostile without the body language, inflection, tone, etc. that people use in person to convey true intent.  It is better to just not post like that and instead be constructive and respectful of others.  Disagreeing is fine, but avoid creating flame bait! The other thing is as stated in the <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=176" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">forum rules</a>, threads addressed to the Community or Development teams will most likely not be responded to. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote> BBQROFL! Your so right! you should be president!!!

WasFycksir
05-27-2007, 12:15 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>first off i like to say that except for a few abilties....everything can be countered. stealth/invis u can use  totems and potions for countering almost any spell. the reason i state this is because i m getting tired of people saying well a scout can go stealth ,a scout can see invis or stealth etc. all classes can! if they got the right items to use.</p></blockquote><p> While this is true, it's also true that as a caster while you are "curing" yourself the scout just got 1-3 more attacks off, putting your face in the dirt.</p>

shagr1414
05-27-2007, 07:09 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>Oneira wrote: <blockquote><p>CAs vs. spells.  SOE has never redressed this imbalance.  It is wrong that CA using classes can zip off all their CA without interruption in 10 seconds or less where spellcasters have to fight to get one, maybe 2 off in that time. <span style="color: #ff0000">The difference between combat arts and spells is that if you miss a combat art, guess what? You missed, and you have to wait the full cooldown timer of that art before you can try again. If a spell gets resisted, no problem; just wait a second or two and try again. This is a game mechanic that I think is working very well because I was around when CA's took 3 or 4 seconds to cast, and it sucked, let me tell you. Mage getting beat on and your taunt is a 3 second cast? Have fun with that.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000">That Second or 2 you refer to on our recast is simply the time it takes a scout to finish us off completely.  Our resists vs your CA cooldowns is an obsurd comparision. </span> Tracking.  Flawless tracking is too big of an advantage and unnecessary.  Why should scouts have flawless tracking?  Is there any good reason for such a huge advantage over other classes?  Actually, of all the classes it's mages that should have some form of enhanced sense that lets them know that an enemy is nearby. <span style="color: #ff0000">Group utility. The main reason any decent pvp group wants a scout is because they can track. If it wasn't for track, most people would prefer to run with mages because their damage comes in far larger bursts and they dont need stealth, or to be behind a guy to do it.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000">I don't recall one time I was able to do 9k+ dmg in a split second as a necro so your uneducated guess here is incorrect classifying all mages as overpowered.</span> Run speeds + snares.  It's not one, it's both that are unbalancing.  Roots have an immunity timer once they wear off.  Not snares.  Many scouts have multiple snares.  It means pretty much they can get to you or keep you at a distance as they choose. <span style="color: #ff0000">Snares also have recasts, and you can buy cure potions to get the snare off you.</span></p></blockquote><blockquote><span style="color: #ff0000">Snares are resisted even more than DPs spells, along with fears/roots  The game isn't unbalanced youa re correct, the resist system is messed up is all.  A lvl 70 ranger in treasured armor should not be 99.9% resisting a fabled/mastered mage that much, yet thats what EVERY mage who posts about this is seeing.  </span><p> Diversion.  This is always been a pet peeve of mine.  It's rogues and predators again that on top of everything else have the ability to make you lose target and mistarget.  THis I just don't get.  Once again, if any class should have the ability to throw you off target it should be mages, not scouts.  Sorcerors get blink....oh wow. <span style="color: #ff0000">No, enchanters get blink, and it's about the only defense we have in PvP, and a fairly useless one at that. Diversion is the standard deagro spell that *all* scouts share, just like all tanks get taunts. And yes, it drops your target, just like stealth, feign death, and a healers deagro spell, so deal with it. Make yourself a "target next PvP" button, and when they drop, hit it. It works wonders.</span></p></blockquote><blockquote><span style="color: #ff0000">Still looking for a reliable "Blink" type spell as necro, sorry tank pet taunts are nerfed in T7.</span> <p> Resists.  Yes spells should be resisted, but the rate is totally out of hand. <span style="color: #ff0000">Sadly, I'm again forced to agree. With 400ish subjugation, and mostly master spells on average 3 out of 5 spells I cast still get resisted, especially my stuns or roots.</span> Mit.  THe diminishing returns curve favors the chain-wearing classes like scouts once again at the expense of plate-wearing, mit buffing classes like guardians. <span style="color: #ff0000">I'd love to have a guardian with me every time I go out PvPing. Try wearing cloth for a week and then come back and complain about dropping fast.</span> </p><p>Just thought I'd add in a few more thoughts to this selection. </p></blockquote> </blockquote>

shagr1414
05-27-2007, 07:14 PM
<cite>Image_Vain wrote:</cite><blockquote>everything is working as intended </blockquote>   Must be a scout....

Saintedone
05-28-2007, 04:41 AM
<p>I like the descussion and thoughts on this but seriously if you think things are fine in T7 then all you are is a scout class looking for a title. Be realistic for a moment - we all pay to play - the game is developed for PVE (We all know this). </p><p>For the future of the game in PVP we all need to look at the facts and come to a real conclusion, ask yourself were the FULL PVP servers went and why they are all loosing pop???</p><p>The reasons are simple the gank game turns a lot of players off</p><p>The level lockers in fabled pvp gear at T2 are lame (as a game mechanic ), no ones gonna play through the game if they are new to the game and cant learn how to play simply because there ganked into leaving the game, boo. (simply kill level lock on a PVP server)</p><p>T7 is completely screwed in PVP and anyone who looks at a combat log knows it.</p><p>On a pvp server Why is there barely any CA resist gear when anyone can toon up the spell resist over 60% just by getting legendary/treasured gear and a potion, making the casters a joke!!Even master spells only hit 30-40% of the time in PVP making it a complete crapshoot so I dont wanna hear how every class can beat any class, CA's with AA backup can make you hit 70-90% of the time stunning and bashing for the win. </p><p>The AA's are not inline with PVP either as casters (everything is spell enhance which doesnt help in PVP ), just about every caster out there is suffering in T7 pvp. </p><p>NO ONE WANTS TO HEAR NERF EITHER - us casters know how it feeels with every update weve been able to figure out a new way to fight but now weve been accually hurt.</p><p>PVP gear on a PVP server should work in PVP and for PVP example T7 robe for a wizzard inhances a spell timer, nice but of no real use in PVP when the spells gonna be resisted 40-70% of the time. </p>

imaevilpoptart
05-30-2007, 05:19 AM
Well I just wanted to point out that the people that said that t7 pvp was just fine and shouldn't be changed had a nice scout class tag under their post. t7 pvp is a game of rock paper scissors with scouts being dynamite. ffs fix resists 75% resist rate be .00000001% CA miss just doesn't seem fair to me. And where is the Ranger L&L???? I want my freaking [Ranger Sinister Strike(Master II)]  

Badaxe Ba
05-30-2007, 02:54 PM
<p>Several times I read about this flawless tracking.  Where is this mythical item, and how do I get it?  It doesn't give the ability to see invis BTW, those totems I buy give me that.  Its also tied to the refresh rate, and apparently the distance seems to have been greatly reduced as well.</p><p>A point I'd like to make, as a ranger, is the fact that during combat once I've used my CA, I've never been able to reuse it right away, unless the starting conditions for it have been interrupted, such as moving or losing stealth or the right angle to fire.  In such cases the CA doesn't get used at all, similar to a caster's spells, but mine don't automatically recast!.  And I gear to get my resists as high as possible.</p>

Droka
05-30-2007, 09:29 PM
<p>I just wanted to remind everyone, that resists are only part of the problem for pvp. When my ice nova + freehand hits for 1100 thats a joke, even mages have over 3500hp at lvl 70 and they have crappy hp. </p><p>I came up on a trio lvl 70 group fighting a full group of low 60's. They were holding their own but the lvl 70 freeps didnt even see me. I sat on the side lines casting and casting and casting and casting. 90% of my spells were resisted, I had my bro and his wife next to me. They play a fury and a monk. They just could not believe what they saw. I didnt do any damage. I think ice nova landed on my 6th try for 800 or so. My masters and adpet 3's mean nothing. My 450+ disruption means nothing. My gear thats better than the fabled pvp faction gear, means nothing. My 90 AA's speced in battlemage + freehand + EoF ward line means nothing. </p><p>I fought 3 other solo fights that day. My longest fight was versus a healer but never got him below 70% and resists where 80 - 90 %. I almost deleted my mage. However, I like him, and I have a faint glimmer of hope that when they say they are revamping AA's for RoK that they are going to fix us. I know its probably a false hope, but I love my mage which I have played for a year, non-level locked to much to give up yet. However, I have pretty much hung may hat up on pvp, unless I get the occasional group.</p><p>I understand everyone has issues on one level or another but casters are screwed. Anyone that says otherwise is just upset at the one time (remember the 10% of the time that spells are not resisted) they got one shotted by ice nova, not from full health even, with 50% health or so etc. </p><p>Do you guys remember the day when EoF came out. That one day. Casters had an equal playing ground. I could fight one vrs one and win maybe 40% of the time. Not 50%, not most the time, 40% of the time I would win. What a glorious day that was. Then everyone went out and got the EoF gear. Now its like nothing changed.</p>

shagr1414
05-31-2007, 02:18 PM
I actually had the pleasure of a hour long conversation with a GM 2 nights ago about casters in PVP.  He plays a ranger as his main and was sorta sympathetic to the casters at first, but his statements ALWAYS ended up saying casters are for group pvp only.  Well, fine then if this is the case then I would like to see the proof of this stated in the EULA that didnt say one godamn word about it being REQUIRED to be in a group to even play the [Removed for Content] game.   We all pay the same amounts per month for the game, yet scouts get to win and casters basically pay to lose.  Not one of the people who play scouts have any form of skill, noone can say otherwise cause you can all pop you CA's into a few macros and have any caster dead b4 we can even turn to see [Removed for Content] is hitting us.  I don't think I know of many casters who can survive more than 2-3 seconds vs this ability. I read logs and chat logs for months now and can easily see in less than 2 seconds at least 6 attacks landing for full effect.  This was supposed to be pvp not Scout vs fodder.  Bottomline, all you scouts can come here,claim fame as if your really more skillful than a hamster running on a wheel, or Sony can address the issues and fix it so the game is playable by all classes.  The only other solution would be to lock out mages completely from PVP and jus allow furies and scouts to be made since those are really the only 2 that seem to really be viable in pvp anymore.

CresentBlade
05-31-2007, 04:29 PM
<cite>shagr1414 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I actually had the pleasure of a hour long conversation with a GM 2 nights ago about casters in PVP.  He plays a ranger as his main and was sorta sympathetic to the casters at first, but his statements ALWAYS ended up saying casters are for group pvp only.  Well, fine then if this is the case then I would like to see the proof of this stated in the EULA that didnt say one godamn word about it being REQUIRED to be in a group to even play the [I cannot control my vocabulary] game.   We all pay the same amounts per month for the game, yet scouts get to win and casters basically pay to lose.  Not one of the people who play scouts have any form of skill, noone can say otherwise cause you can all pop you CA's into a few macros and have any caster dead b4 we can even turn to see [I cannot control my vocabulary] is hitting us.  I don't think I know of many casters who can survive more than 2-3 seconds vs this ability. I read logs and chat logs for months now and can easily see in less than 2 seconds at least 6 attacks landing for full effect.  This was supposed to be pvp not Scout vs fodder.  Bottomline, all you scouts can come here,claim fame as if your really more skillful than a hamster running on a wheel, or Sony can address the issues and fix it so the game is playable by all classes.  The only other solution would be to lock out mages completely from PVP and jus allow furies and scouts to be made since those are really the only 2 that seem to really be viable in pvp anymore.</blockquote> Thats pretty sad, explains why Scouts are kings it is the class the Sony employees play. Well no wonder they are the super class and we now know they will never change that unless some high ranking employee decides he likes some other class better.<img src="/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Aeralik
05-31-2007, 04:37 PM
never say never <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

CresentBlade
05-31-2007, 04:38 PM
<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>never say never <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote>OMG BIG HUG!!!

sundrop
05-31-2007, 08:24 PM
<cite>CresentBlade wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>shagr1414 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I actually had the pleasure of a hour long conversation with a GM 2 nights ago about casters in PVP.  He plays a ranger as his main and was sorta sympathetic to the casters at first, but his statements ALWAYS ended up saying casters are for group pvp only.  Well, fine then if this is the case then I would like to see the proof of this stated in the EULA that didnt say one godamn word about it being REQUIRED to be in a group to even play the [I cannot control my vocabulary] game.   We all pay the same amounts per month for the game, yet scouts get to win and casters basically pay to lose.  Not one of the people who play scouts have any form of skill, noone can say otherwise cause you can all pop you CA's into a few macros and have any caster dead b4 we can even turn to see [I cannot control my vocabulary] is hitting us.  I don't think I know of many casters who can survive more than 2-3 seconds vs this ability. I read logs and chat logs for months now and can easily see in less than 2 seconds at least 6 attacks landing for full effect.  This was supposed to be pvp not Scout vs fodder.  Bottomline, all you scouts can come here,claim fame as if your really more skillful than a hamster running on a wheel, or Sony can address the issues and fix it so the game is playable by all classes.  The only other solution would be to lock out mages completely from PVP and jus allow furies and scouts to be made since those are really the only 2 that seem to really be viable in pvp anymore.</blockquote> Thats pretty sad, explains why Scouts are kings it is the class the Sony employees play. Well no wonder they are the super class and we now know they will never change that unless some high ranking employee decides he likes some other class better.<img src="/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote>Dont fogget Freeps, in general. ALL SOE employees are freeps, explains things like SK's and Necro's. Ever wonder why ALL your petitions that require a GM to spawn are Freeps either in SK/AS/Necro Form?

CresentBlade
05-31-2007, 08:24 PM
<cite>sundrop wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>CresentBlade wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>shagr1414 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I actually had the pleasure of a hour long conversation with a GM 2 nights ago about casters in PVP.  He plays a ranger as his main and was sorta sympathetic to the casters at first, but his statements ALWAYS ended up saying casters are for group pvp only.  Well, fine then if this is the case then I would like to see the proof of this stated in the EULA that didnt say one godamn word about it being REQUIRED to be in a group to even play the [I cannot control my vocabulary] game.   We all pay the same amounts per month for the game, yet scouts get to win and casters basically pay to lose.  Not one of the people who play scouts have any form of skill, noone can say otherwise cause you can all pop you CA's into a few macros and have any caster dead b4 we can even turn to see [I cannot control my vocabulary] is hitting us.  I don't think I know of many casters who can survive more than 2-3 seconds vs this ability. I read logs and chat logs for months now and can easily see in less than 2 seconds at least 6 attacks landing for full effect.  This was supposed to be pvp not Scout vs fodder.  Bottomline, all you scouts can come here,claim fame as if your really more skillful than a hamster running on a wheel, or Sony can address the issues and fix it so the game is playable by all classes.  The only other solution would be to lock out mages completely from PVP and jus allow furies and scouts to be made since those are really the only 2 that seem to really be viable in pvp anymore.</blockquote> Thats pretty sad, explains why Scouts are kings it is the class the Sony employees play. Well no wonder they are the super class and we now know they will never change that unless some high ranking employee decides he likes some other class better.<img src="/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote>Dont fogget Freeps, in general. ALL SOE employees are freeps, explains things like SK's and Necro's. Ever wonder why ALL your petitions that require a GM to spawn are Freeps either in SK/AS/Necro Form? </blockquote><img src="/smilies/0320a00cb4bb5629ab9fc2bc1fcc4e9e.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

firedawg9
05-31-2007, 11:57 PM
Easiest way to nerf all scouts is to nerf tracking.  I think its absolutely ridiculous that they can pick up names of player characters on track.  If they nerfed tracking to where they could just see there is a certain race on track it takes the advantage away.  Right now they can pick and choose there battles too easy with tracking and I honestly would love to see that nerfed so it will level the playing field.

CresentBlade
06-01-2007, 12:50 AM
<cite>firedawg911 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Easiest way to nerf all scouts is to nerf tracking.  I think its absolutely ridiculous that they can pick up names of player characters on track.  If they nerfed tracking to where they could just see there is a certain race on track it takes the advantage away.  Right now they can pick and choose there battles too easy with tracking and I honestly would love to see that nerfed so it will level the playing field.</blockquote> The defense would be that they could never find pvp fights then, yet other classes have no problem. Tracking is class defining, no wait thats evac...er high DPS...grr I mean high mit..no..hmmm Stealth YA...no...er<img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Oakum
06-01-2007, 11:23 AM
<cite>CresentBlade wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>firedawg911 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Easiest way to nerf all scouts is to nerf tracking.  I think its absolutely ridiculous that they can pick up names of player characters on track.  If they nerfed tracking to where they could just see there is a certain race on track it takes the advantage away.  Right now they can pick and choose there battles too easy with tracking and I honestly would love to see that nerfed so it will level the playing field.</blockquote> The defense would be that they could never find pvp fights then, yet other classes have no problem. Tracking is class defining, no wait thats evac...er high DPS...grr I mean high mit..no..hmmm Stealth YA...no...er<img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote><p>Curiousity question here. If scouts can't find a PVP fight without tracking, how is it that the other classes can without tracking? </p><p>How about this, make tracking a wood elf racial skill like in eq1 and then no one could say it gave scouts an unfair advantage. If they wanted a tracking mage, they could roll a woodelf wizard, ect. </p><p>Saying scouts should have tracking considered to be their archtype defining ability is like saying healing is a healers and their should be no other class to heal through spells, ca side effects, or self/other heals. A scouts defining ability is DPS. Either as high damage dealers or to increase/allow even more the damage of others like the bards through buffs, debuffs, and hate management tools and mages are the same way with enchanters being the bard equivelant DPS utility. </p><p>Off on a tangent there after the first line but I actually rolled by druid back in Dec 2004 as a wood elf like I had in EQ1 for the tracking ability. I even thought it was possible because you can increase your tracking skill as a wood elf. I was pretty disappoint when everyone I ask told me that the racial ability was useless and only scouts could track. I thought I was bugged and doing something wrong. I was glad when they gave us a free respec of racial abilities after one of the updates/expansions later on. Maybe I will get lucky with the racial trait changes rumored to be worked on and the plus to tracking skill will mean something. I can hope. I feel gimped as a wood elf who can't track. </p>