How to add risk back into the game and avoid being BORED? Feedback needed. [Archive]

Uumuuanu

05-17-2007, 02:57 PM

I see people complaining about being bored, about ~oh boy another 10 levels till I am bored again~, and the 'been there done that' syndrome. People do an instance or a zone and get bored. They level to 70(soon 80), make an alt and level them too, some have 3 or 4 level 70s and try to keep from being bored by fabling them out.But honestly, it seems as though there is something missing, an underlying problem that keeps coming up no matter how many expansion zones or levels are added. It seems to me there is no risk in the game, no consequences for actions.There is no risk. KoS had a little only because of the level increase, but soon lost it. DoF, same thing. The worst thing in the game was a giant spider that it took only a few weeks to take down for some servers. There was no risk in EoF at all. I had my mid 50s toons running through loping plains stealing disco before I even knew what it was or where.So, I pose this to the players, how do we put risk in the game without making people mad or quit? Things like making respawn points dangerous not lazy mans evac points or travel bonuses? How do we do it?Feedback?

Zanix

05-17-2007, 03:10 PM

A: corpse runs.

Quda

05-17-2007, 03:51 PM

New Content - thousands of poeple have died trying to get to wushi the first timeEvents - developers need to be active with the game, guides screwing with us, make a dragon attack our home town, cause disease, why does everything have to be bright and sunny, a curse removed the sun, lets go fix it. Give us something to do that we haven't done before.Zones that adjust to levels, that has gear adjust with it. Guild raids do.Guides that are in the game that can really do things (instead of RP), permantly bind you, causeing your guildies, friends to come free you via quest.Quests you are given that you have to complete, and can't do anything until your done with it.The land should be full of danger and unexpected things. Zones that change, rockslides cut off paths, fires prevent passing, sand storms cause you to seek shelter.

Occam

05-17-2007, 04:11 PM

<cite>Quda wrote:</cite><blockquote>New Content - thousands of poeple have died trying to get to wushi the first timeUnfortunately new content always gets stale fast for those who just want to rush through it. People are so concerned about getting world/server firsts that they lose sight of the fact that they're only handicapping their own enjoyment of the game later on. I have to wonder how much showing item discoveries plays to this mentality.Events - developers need to be active with the game, guides screwing with us, make a dragon attack our home town, cause disease, why does everything have to be bright and sunny, a curse removed the sun, lets go fix it. Give us something to do that we haven't done before.Absolutely. I would love to see more dynamic events and quests. Encourage people to feel more involved in the direction of the world by making events that impact how things unfold.Zones that adjust to levels, that has gear adjust with it. Guild raids do.Another great idea that has been under-utilized.Guides that are in the game that can really do things (instead of RP), permantly bind you, causeing your guildies, friends to come free you via quest.Unfortunately this is one of the things that would drive people away from the game. What if a GM binds you while you're on your way to a guild raid? Does the whole guild have to stop what their doing to free you, or are you just going to sit there for several hours (or log) because it's easier for them to just fill your spot in the raid?Quests you are given that you have to complete, and can't do anything until your done with it.Same as the last item. If you've only got an hour or two to play on a particular night, how annoyed will you be when you find that you're being forced to do something that you don't want to?The land should be full of danger and unexpected things. Zones that change, rockslides cut off paths, fires prevent passing, sand storms cause you to seek shelter.Another great idea, Quda. Make traveling more dangerous, mob levels isn't enough to keep things exciting since most zones grey out fairly quickly. Nature can be dangerous and tempermental in RL, make it moreso in game as well. The unexpected can be extremely exciting. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote>

Zard

05-17-2007, 04:19 PM

While I prefer being a "care bear", playing on PvE (blue) servers, when I feel bored I log into my single PvP (red server) character where computer-controlled monsters are the least of my worries.

Rayle

05-17-2007, 06:22 PM

corpse runs - i remember when you did things like PoF and you wiped, taking hours to get everything going againexp loss - when you die you should lose exp, make it so people can lose levels if they lose to much, rather than just a little debt and revived sicknesshell levels - yeah thats right i said it, and anyone who played EQLive early on knows what im talking about, but rather than every 5 levels past lvl 30 or 40, make it so that past 50 EVERY lvl is a hell level, and make it get worse at 60, and then 70....bigger loot tables - give mobs bigger loot tables, this will make items more rare, so a mob like say Varsoon drops 3-4 items everytime, from a table of 30-40 items (like put in class armor sets to pre-EoF zones, i think this has been done to the new DFC, but do it to the other zones too)permanent physical injuries - when you die in combat there should be a chance that you suffer from a permanent non reversable dmg, like loss of a finger or two on your sword hand or something like that that permanently reduces agi/str or lowers your chance to hit, yeah this could suck but it would give people a reason not to take their lvl 10 thru zones like EF and EL like i do soon as i get the ability to gain AAbest of the best competitions - gms used to hold competitions and members of every class could compete with won another to earn titles and such in city events - qeynos and freeport npcs could raid each others cities and players with houses and such close to the city borders could run the chance of their houses burning down or being pillaged (yeah this would suck lol)BG writs - freeport citizens could band together in an instanced zone to raid qeynos npc controlled keeps/encampments and qeynos citizens could do the samemake exiles Pkable - people who are exiled from qeynos or freeport or kelethin are hunted down by adventurers or their former citySabotage - make sabotage quests actually do something to the opposing citiestraits - add more racial traits, more character specialization abilites (the ones that add hp/mana, and increase %)

initoci

05-17-2007, 07:54 PM

I really agree Sabotage quests should affect how the city fuctions after a sabotage quest is done. I think corpse runs should have been brought back into the game and i think that debt xp should be taken out and that when somone dies they should lose xp. Not as much as in EQ1 though...because in EQ1 what took you maybe 3 hours to get 10% would take you 6 hours to get back when you died...I also believe that the mob loot tables should be way bigger...maybe 4-5 items all the time on the boss mob and 2-3 items on a mini-boss.

Giral

05-17-2007, 08:51 PM

Group exp Loss in certain zones. Reduction to all stats at 3% for "each" death in certain zones , Cannot repair armor in zone. 1 week lock out apon entry. Troub's and Dirges could reduce the reduction by 1/2 Hell levels 70 + Endzone Nameds should be extremely challenging to beat = skill/strategies/resist gear/potions/etc, these names should use all of there class skill's + Extra skill's as there suppose to be more then a mere mob. Zones that change there lay out randomly. once every 2 weeks so you never know the lay out permanently. yes they could make it so the Named's wouldnt all be in the same room or at the front door ; ) have the Named rooms be fixed and the rest of the zone be interchangable . Monthly events , Gm controlled Mobs that would take an Army to kill , allow everyone in the zone to get a reward if the GM is killed if you fail certain zones you get a Fixed title added to your name for 2 days "The [Removed for Content] of ST Cavern's" : ) Roaming Names in outside zones . Alot of em ; ) and make em Uba Tough and Last but not least Remove the Dumb Cap on even attempting a RED mob . if i wanna attempt a Red mob i should be able to . i should have a Extremely Slim chance to win . it shouldn't be totaly impossible just becuase of the game mechanics . the way it is now is just Weak , everything resisted.mob hits you like a ton of bricks , but if he was just 1 lvl lower and was orange you could kill it and have 50 % health left just Dumb IMO . I use to solo red's on my SK From release until they changed the mobs . i died MAny Many Many times I Got mass Exp Debt . but it was my choice and atleast i had the choice to be able to atleast Try , wasnt worth anything other then the Risk of doing it, and when you actualy won it was Exciting and Fun . now im trapped in a box of you can only try to kill this, this, and that ! i dont care if they reward NO exp at all, just the thrill of being able to attempt a Red with a slim chance of victory is fun .

Dragowulf

05-17-2007, 11:34 PM

I say PVP zones for PvE. Kind like the arena in EQ1 but not [Removed for Content] like the EQ2 Arena. Pretty much like an instance for pve-pvp killing. Not DoF type though

Celline-Layonaire

05-18-2007, 12:57 AM

Even how 'tremendous' efforts have been put into the game, players definitely will get bored someday.So, 'minimizing the repetitiveness of gameplay' is much more of importance to me. (and the variety does some.)Anyway, here goes one solution!------------------------------------------------------------ 1. Medal of Honor : Airborne (X) 1. Fae Airborne Forces : Dang yes ♣ <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Selioth

05-18-2007, 02:50 AM

Peakae@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>A: corpse runs.</blockquote>OMG I WOULD PAY $5 EXTRA A MONTH IF THAY ADDED THAT BACK, MADE THE GAME SO MUCH BETTER

Finora

05-18-2007, 04:44 AM

<cite>Uumuuanu wrote:</cite><blockquote>I see people complaining about being bored, about ~oh boy another 10 levels till I am bored again~, and the 'been there done that' syndrome. People do an instance or a zone and get bored. They level to 70(soon 80), make an alt and level them too, some have 3 or 4 level 70s and try to keep from being bored by fabling them out.Like someone else said, anyone who just plows through content like a Sunday buffet is going to end up bored with nothing left to do other than all the stuff they skipped because it would be 'boring'.But honestly, it seems as though there is something missing, an underlying problem that keeps coming up no matter how many expansion zones or levels are added. It seems to me there is no risk in the game, no consequences for actions.There is no risk. KoS had a little only because of the level increase, but soon lost it. DoF, same thing. The worst thing in the game was a giant spider that it took only a few weeks to take down for some servers. There was no risk in EoF at all. I had my mid 50s toons running through loping plains stealing disco before I even knew what it was or where.Going to say something a little crazy here, don't get your pitchforks. There is no risk in ANY MMO. Not even good ole EQ. Nor UO. Nor any of the others out there. None. Why? Because it's a game. What you do, don't do, fail at or succeed at in these games has zero significance anywhere out of the game world. You say level 50s toons in LP? That's cake. Level 4 toon in old Kithcor at night just as easy, level 14 to Umbral Plains /yawn. /shrug Not much different game to game unless zones are set up in such a way that if you are below a certain level you can NOT make it there alive (and that removes some of the fun, excitement and danger if you ask me).So, I pose this to the players, how do we put risk in the game without making people mad or quit? Things like making respawn points dangerous not lazy mans evac points or travel bonuses? How do we do it?Corpse runs and other timesinks add no risk to the game. The only thing they actually add is a bit of annoyance and leads to people cowering at the edges of zones pulling mobs to them... oh, the unmitigated joy of hours and hours of that /rolls eyes.Feedback?</blockquote>To others, xp debt is the practically the same thing as lost xp. Just called a different name and functions so that you don't lose levels. (yes I know debt here is easy to make up, you don't get much when you die) You'd have people leaving the game in droves if level loss were implemented.Dangerous travel, that would be a novel idea. Like they tried to do in Wailing Caves where the ceilings would crumble and occassionally you'd take damage from falling rocks. That would be cool, but I don't know whether it would be something they could impliment that wouldn't wreck game performance. I'd vote for more invisible/stealthed mobs if nothing else could be done. Make all those totems useful on PVE as well as PVP =). More quests/events you could participate in (or choose not to participate in) that would have you randomly attacked by level scaled creatures.Someone suggested a chance of permanent injuries upon death...um... no. Might be the ultimate of cool to some people, but that is something that would be far too "hardcore" for a game like EQ2 and the people that the game is gear towards (ie the more casual player). Once again, something that would likely drive people away in droves. Could you even imagine how debilitated the hardcore raiders would be after trying to figure out new encounters?Then again, some people don't feel the need to have a game impose artificial "challenges and risk" on their game play.Some sort of open PVP zone as someone said like EQ1's arena would be nice on the PVE servers. Let people have at it.

Verdyn

05-18-2007, 11:44 AM

I don't think risk is what the game needs so much as it needs more of the unexpected (although risk can be included in this). As is right now, most of the world is stagnant, and it gets that way by design. When going to the old zones, I know they (in substance) haven't changed much since I first started the game. There's no reason to ever revisit a great deal of the content. Even if I do visit those old zones, I know nothing will happen to me in them. For example, if I'm walking through Nek Forest at night, instead of fearing a possible ambush on the road by thugs looking for a quick pay, I can hit num lock and auto run my way through half the zone while I go take a bathroom break. The reason why old content gets so boring and tired is because it is almost literally meaningless to a player once they gray it out - it becomes another boring stretch of land we have to run through to get to a place we actually care about. Now, I'm not suggesting gray mobs turn aggro (because that's a horrible idea), but putting in some surprises along the way would do wonders in making the world seem dynamic and relevant instead of just the targeted zones.What if it were actually dangerous to be in the city at night because of the lowlifes that wander the streets and a guard escort might be the best bet to ensure safety? What if, on the boat ride to Butcherblock, the boat was ambushed by pirates and those aboard (including an NPC or two) had to defend it? Perhaps a townsperson or boatmaster has gone missing and you're needed to save them? What if Antonia Bayle had plans to raid Freeport and was recruiting everyone she could find? What if you logged in one day to Qeynos and it was shrouded in darkness from a Freeport curse and the citizens needed to investigate in order to restore the light?Regardless of whether any of these are actually feasible or not isn't the concern. It's entirely possible that little things like these can be done without crippling someones play. Unfortunately, the "Live Event" aspect of the game has been one of the most neglected as of late, and it's one of the most important pieces to enjoyability IMO.As is, people log into the game knowing what to expect, knowing that everything is the same (except on an update day) and a lot of the time, if one doesn't have an idea of something to do beforehand, there's no reason to log in. Adding some unexpected, surprise content would do wonedrs for giving people a reason to log in everyday, and it would definitely keep the game from being stagnant and boring.

AbsentmindedMage

05-18-2007, 12:15 PM

I think a better question to pose is: How do you add risk back into the game and avoid it being annoying? What could possibly be annoying you say? Well, how about this. Let's say you can only repair equipment a set number of times before it becomes unrepairable. That sounds realistic doesnt it? Weird how people who want to make the game "hard" always use reality as a basis even though it is a fantasy game. Anyway. So, you have the item Shield of Strength which has a set repair of 10 times. Once you have repaired it 10 times, it can be repaired no more. So, if it breaks after the 10th time, you will just need to get a new Shield of Strength. Assuming you wait to repair when it is 0% that means the shield will last you a little under 100 deaths. What does this add to the game? Well, people have a real risk of dying because if they keep it up, they will need to re-equip theirself. My point with this is that what want person considers "enjoyable" risk another person will fine to be an annoyance. Personally, I think there is enough risk in the game as it is. You have your equipment to repair, you xp debt to work off, and your lockout timers. There is also the resurrect sickness that lasts a few minutes. Rather than adding risk to the game, i would prefer that they add content and a reason to play.

mjashmore

05-18-2007, 01:01 PM

How about inter-guilde wars? (idea 'borrowed' from Eve)... You could make it so that one guild can declare war on another guild allowing PvP on a PvE server between the guilds which are at war. You could give guild members the option to not be part of the war by giving them a flag that they can toggle to turn participationin the war on/off... but there would have to be a delay (maybe 1/2 an hour) between turning war participation off and you becoming immune to PvP otherwise people would abuse the flag.If you could do this and have some kind of reward for winning the war then that would be good.... maybe something along the lines of members of a guild whi are losing a war have to pay tax to the guild which is 'winning' the war when selling/buying things on the broker or via merchants. Perhaps you could introduce some kind of honour system amongst guild?

mjashmore

05-18-2007, 01:06 PM

Also along a similar line to my last post (i.e. still PvP related).. how about being able to put a bounty on someone's head?Someone upsets you by stealing that Master 1 spell while in a group... put a bounty on their head to get revenge! Maybe you could add a courthouse in each major city where bounties could be posted.. talk to the court sherrif, enter a toon's name, enter an amount of money (like the Escrow system to pay rent)... the toon now has a bounty on their head which is automatically mailed to anyone who kills that toon.

Shankalot

05-18-2007, 04:16 PM

sorpse runs sucked so bad, but i really like spirit shards. i like the idea of crippling urself so if u died a few times without getting ur soul back u wouldnt be able to do much, but being totally stripped of ur gear and have to run through yellow mobs who hit u for half life is not cool or fun in any way, i would like to be able to actually fight to the bottom of a dungeon to get my shard not have someone invis me or drag my corpse so i can have my gear back.spirit shards ftw!yes dungeons that scale with lvl and being able to pick a difficultyand i think they should add traps to the new zones like some of the newby ones ie, the spike trap that hits for 50%why not have hidden holes int he ground in places like emerald jungle where if u just try to run through all the mobs u can fall ina pit and get hit for say 50-75% life then witht he mobs=deathmaybe storms shooting bolts down that can strike you for alot of dmg or dmg some armor so its ur choice to go out

JohnDoe058

05-18-2007, 04:33 PM

In my experience, having played many different MMO's for 500-2000 hours each, high risk serves to make a game generally more monotonous, not less.Take EQ1...where a death would set you back up to 5+ hours. What did the vast majority of people do to compensate for this? Grind blue-con mobs for hours and days on end, in the exact same spot, because you couldn't afford to get any adds, or have anything UNEXPECTED happen.So, advancement in the game was boring AT BEST. If anything unusual or unanticipated happened, it was almost invariably a very bad thing. So people largely avoided anything different. (Or at least every single group that I was ever in lvl 15+). Grind, Grind, Grind.Whereas in EQ2, people really TRY a lot of things. Do they always succeed? No. Like having a wizard me MT...sometimes works better than others lol. But it's fun to try new things, rather than grind the same blue mobs in the same area for 10+ levels.The unexpected, different, unusual things...these are a lot of the fun in a game!!! Now why do you want to discourage people from trying things out, by punishing them so severely for any failure? Now, if they were to make the game more risky AND more rewarding...maybe that could fly. But giving the same rewards in a much riskier game? That will never be popular.

Occam

05-20-2007, 10:26 PM

TalanRM

05-21-2007, 02:54 AM

1. Corpse Runs or Spirit Shards - i.e. the risk of a small time sink upon death. 2. Less button mashing - currently combat for most classes consists of button mashing and cycling through the same combat options. More situational reactive abilities forces people stay altert. 3. Less instances - The instances in EQ2 are very well polished and put together. However, once you do an instance twice the experience is gone, you have seen everything there is to see. Throwing in the element of other players adds randomness and interaction. Large dungeons like Sanctum of Scale or Cazic Thull are the grass roots of MMORPG.4. Random triggered mobs - Make certain mobs types have a chance of being triggered; e.g. upon completing the sequence to trigger mobs in place 'x', there could be one of three possible encounters triggered. This would help remove the certainty of zone content. Similarly with traps, add a number of random locations where a trap can be placed in a zone.5. Aggro control - Add in chances/ abilities for mobs to suddenly gain or lose aggro with certain player or class types. Not enough to prevent a decent tank from regaining that aggro, but enough to occaisonally keep a group on their toes.6. Summoning adds - Give certain mob types the chance to summon adds occaisonally. This would help avoid the rinse and repeat nature of encounters.

Kri

05-21-2007, 06:01 AM

<cite>JohnDoe058 wrote:</cite><blockquote>In my experience, having played many different MMO's for 500-2000 hours each, high risk serves to make a game generally more monotonous, not less.Take EQ1...where a death would set you back up to 5+ hours. What did the vast majority of people do to compensate for this? Grind blue-con mobs for hours and days on end, in the exact same spot, because you couldn't afford to get any adds, or have anything UNEXPECTED happen.So, advancement in the game was boring AT BEST. If anything unusual or unanticipated happened, it was almost invariably a very bad thing. So people largely avoided anything different. (Or at least every single group that I was ever in lvl 15+). Grind, Grind, Grind.Whereas in EQ2, people really TRY a lot of things. Do they always succeed? No. Like having a wizard me MT...sometimes works better than others lol. But it's fun to try new things, rather than grind the same blue mobs in the same area for 10+ levels.The unexpected, different, unusual things...these are a lot of the fun in a game!!! Now why do you want to discourage people from trying things out, by punishing them so severely for any failure? Now, if they were to make the game more risky AND more rewarding...maybe that could fly. But giving the same rewards in a much riskier game? That will never be popular.</blockquote>I agree. In EQ2 you can explore and be adventurous because it's no disaster if you die. In my experience, people still try to avoid dying simply because that in itself is a sort of punishment. The excitement from previous games was not due to the penalties but rather the fact that many of the things were unknown to the players. Nowadays, very few things will surprise you, especially if you're a frequent visitor to message boards. Most people know exactly what to expect the first time they go into a new area. They know all the quests, all the mobs, all named mobs and they most likely also have a detailed map of the area.I remember the first time I went into a dungeon in Asheron's Call. I had absolutely no idea what to expect. I didn't know where to go and I suspected I could get jumped by mobs at any time. My heart was pounding so hard I was almost afraid it would wake my daughter. <img src="/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> The closest thing to that feeling I have gotten in EQ2 was when I did the solo Nest part of the Hooluk hat quest. The only penalty for failing would be to go back to Hooluk for a new disguise, but I really didn't want to fail. Hardly any punishment, yet a whole lot of excitement. I think much of the boredom comes from never having to expect the unexpected. The problem is, if you're an MMO veteran, even the unexpected is expected. It's very difficult (impossible?) to come up with things that no one has seen before. Even if they do, it will be on spoiler sites 5 minutes after it hits the test server.Adding harsher penalties will only hurt the casual players. It's no fun de-levelling just because something came up IRL and you had to rush off. The only people who enjoy nasty penalties are those who spend more time in Norrath than they do out in the real world.

Pitt Hammerfi

05-21-2007, 08:47 AM

+1 corpse runs

Seraki

05-21-2007, 12:42 PM

There used to be corpse runs in this game .. they are gone for good reasons. just my two copper .. 2 thumbs down for cr.

Nevitt2

05-21-2007, 01:42 PM

I for one would love to see corpse runs back in the game<img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Surething

05-21-2007, 10:08 PM

Sounds to me like the ideal solution was mentioned more than once. If you want risk, then move to a PVP server.

Rufio

05-22-2007, 12:27 AM

What about having scary monsters like the cookie monster or elmo and then he can come and get us all when we are looking at flowers and can`t see the bad monsters...........Playing on the freeway is dangerous, doesn`t mean everyone wants to do it, however fun it may seem. Thta is the way a business runs, this is a business and unfortunately appealing the masses is what they are in the business to do.I would love to see a game where you can inflict specific wounds, like fallout 2. You can target limbs like legs etc of a monster, quick! hack away at his kneecaps!

Finora

05-22-2007, 12:49 AM

TalanRM wrote: <blockquote>5. Aggro control - Add in chances/ abilities for mobs to suddenly gain or lose aggro with certain player or class types. Not enough to prevent a decent tank from regaining that aggro, but enough to occaisonally keep a group on their toes.While not deagro exactly, mobs already do taunt you off of each other, forcing people to actually pay attention to what mob they are hitting.6. Summoning adds - Give certain mob types the chance to summon adds occaisonally. This would help avoid the rinse and repeat nature of encounters.There are several kinds mobs in game that summon swarm pets (various fish and spiders most frequently). They are of course weak enough that they can mostly be ignored. There are also dumbfire type pets that are summoned by mobs of appropriate classes.I'm guessing you are talking about something a little more like summoning a second herioc ^^^ or something though.</blockquote>That might make the game a little more risky, but it would likely mess up the nice balance the game has with 'any tank any healer any dps for the group'and bring it closer to the holy trinity of EQ1, which I hope I never have to see again in a game.

Wilde_Night

05-22-2007, 12:57 AM

I posted this elsewhere and I will repost it here as it fits better with the subject.I don't miss the corpse runs. I do miss the shard runs we had early on in EQ2. You did not have to get them, in 48 hours (in game) the negative effects wore off, but it was fun sometimes to retrieve them. Now days, death means pretty much nothing. Oh.. I died. A little coin and some NPC's killed with fix that.I actually kind of miss hearing shouts of "Train to WC zone!!" It added that extra element of danger, along with the determined creatures who had nothing better to do than chase you down and stomp you into the dirt. Would make it a bit more dangerous in PvP environments as well.I do not miss camping. EverCamp was harsh. My husband tells me horror stories of camping some named in Befallen once for 72 hours straight. That is crazy. I am glad that there are some place holders for most important creatures now.. though those bouncers in Feerrott still take way too long to show up sometimes.I do miss access quests. I like having to earn my way into places. Makes me feel important when I can help friends get into places because I took the time to do the quests needed. I was saddened the day the patch came out and made them all 'optional'. I mean.. c'mon. Should we just let you sit there and make creatures come to you too? Would that be better than making you run out to find them? I like having to work for a goal, like access to a new land or a new dungeon.I do miss real boat rides. I know not everyone wants them, they should make them optional. So if you want to 'ding' to SS in 10 seconds, fine. But if you want to take a 10-15 minutes boat ride with your group you should be able to as well.A lot of people want things now.. now.. now. When a few of us remember what it was like to work your way through stuff and the acomplishment you felt. I don't always like the McDonald's drive through version. Most times I like to enjoy the preparation and anticipation of the meal I cooked myself. Who cares if some of it is considered a time sink. If it is really that much of a pain to do, just find someone who already has the access or work on it slowly on your own. MMO's are not console games where 30 minutes of play time gives you instant gratification. They are so much more complex than that.

Robaidh

05-22-2007, 01:02 AM

What EQ2 needs is a real endgame ! There is none right now. Just raiding for fabled loot at 70 is not an endgame, just a timesink because once you get it all you do is do it again.Most of all the ideas in prior posts will not work at all as all they do is add more timesinks or other content that also will become boring once you get used to it. Once the newness of some novel idea wears off the fun goes away as well, doesn't matter what it is. The only ideas presented that will work that having constantly new novel interactions are PvP related. How do you do this on a PvE server without messing up the PvE or those that don't want to do it at the moment? It's easy really and it has already been done in the best PvP game ever.....DAOC(Dark Ages of Camelot for the mmorg impaired <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />). EQ2 can do this without changing any PvE content at all by adding a new zone to all servers that is for PvP content only. It would be like DAOC's Frontiers. When you want to play PvP fighting over something to sport your new fabled from raiding you can go to the PvP zone and Qeynos/Freeport can fight over control of land, castles, trade routes, and even use siege equipment like catapults, rams etc., which can have bonuses to PvE gameplay for that realm. If you don't want to PvP easy just stay in the PvE zones that are already created in game like KoS, EoF and so forth. So noone is bothered that doesn't want to be and your PvE and PvP gameplay are totally separated you don't have to worry about someone whacking you while trying to finish your quest you've been working on 10 hours. This gives a REASON to get the fabled gear a way better one than well we need it to do the next dungeon they put in. PvP is the only constantly changing environment presenting novel content and this implementation idea would allow all to do it only when they want to without messing anything else in game up so there isn't any excuse not to do it and noone can complain it messed up their game this way too as the environments are separate.I hope they do this I LOVED trebucheting castles, breaking down walls, and watching the masses surge through to battle that was a blast. Then when I wanna PVE unbothered I could. Was heaven.

Giral

05-22-2007, 08:32 PM

what was great about Spirit shard's = People Loved to Hate them : ) Skilled player's rarely died, but when they did IT SUCKEd : ) cuase chances are it was deep in a dungeon : ) Normal player's died every once in a wyle, lost a shard here and there , it sucked, but most times getting your shard back was an adventure in itself. get group's just to retrieve shard's. helping lowe levels get shard s back by clearing mobs fo them, chasing mobs and killing them when people called HELP. lowest common denominator player's Died numerous time's, lost 5.6.7.8. shard s in a row, everytime they played. now there level 70 and your new Tank or Healer /WOOOOOttttttttttt /thumbs up : )

Skua

05-22-2007, 08:51 PM

NO corpse runs are stupid , ppl get frustrated ....no thx we need less SMASHING hotkeys and do the same cycle over and over...1,2,3,4,5,6 some alt 1 alt 2 alt 3 repeat until mobs is death.....goes for all classes tanks cycle throw attacks taunts mages cycle - debuffs dots nukes healers - reactive , hot , heal , some debuffs scout sames same as mage.. attack stealhed , debuffs attackss blablabla we need content that reallly need ppl paying attention....no AOES are no a problem.....thats just annoying , just cal for it , and joust them... we need mobs that charm players or whole group.... we need mobs that aoe BUT there are walls around the boss , and u are protected behind the wall... we need bosses that put a Dot in a group/ raid member ,the dot ticks , if some1 is near will be contagied .. dot 500 dmg ect just some ideas... we need more movement in bosses jousting is fun but u get some gear or use some skills and bleh NPCS need more INT seriusly AI in eq2 is LAME we need bosses that requires some effort and hinking.... eq2 team need work harder imo , all bosses are the "same" at least feel the same.... hmmm eq2 dev team can , hell who doesnt remember halloween house? OMG FUN AS HELL! did it like 20 times!! we need more !!! add PUZZLES everywhere WE LOVED THEM !!!!!! just a break from kill kill kill kill we can climb , we can jump , we can swim....we can move objets , we can "break" walls <--- GOOD IDEA but WASTED! , put dungeos with some puzzles involving moving items , breakin walls , put a laberinth as dungeon (instanced) , add some "RANDOME" puzzles , walls that break and oh oh mob or is the right 1? , put a hard climbing wall add risk , if some 1 touch the "dark" warl fall to water and need to reclimb ASK PLAYERS WHAT WANT! and get some ideas....~~

Lodrelhai

05-22-2007, 09:05 PM

Make being drunk like in EQ1. Warped viewing rather than the blur. Speech degredation. Inability to walk straight. Then if someone wants a more 'challenging' experience, well, grab a few bottles at the local pub and try hunting while drunk. Good times. ^_^

dancemice

05-23-2007, 08:58 AM

1) Add permanant item damage for some zones. Ie. Death in that zone will permantly lower items durability by 2-5%.2) Make said zones have risk vrs reward. High risk of death and decay of items = better then normal treasure.Alternatly, Make dying painful enough that people really think about the risk they are taking. Ie. Again item decay. Temporary loss of stats for up to 60 mins. (Ie. FIrst death, -1% to your stats for 60 mins. 2nd death -3% to your stats for 60 mins) Kinda makes those 10 death raids hurt more..Or hey. Permant stat loss. Each death in said zone removes 1 point from required class stat permantly. REward for said zone is +500 hp/mana items .. Etc... Wonder how many would play with that one.-B-

azaran

05-23-2007, 09:49 AM

Death penalties are the best thing that ever happened tbh... if you don't want your character to die because the penalties are high, then you enjoy the risk a bit more. (For people who say, but I dont want consiquences of death!, even permanently lost gear/stats/experience is a lot better than RL rofl)... Another thing that would make the game more fun/appealing, would be consentual wars between guilds and factions on PVE servers. This means that RPers on normal PVE servers can enjoy kicking off faction based roleplay and even inter-faction roleplay on a level that they can manage on thier own. (its a pain in the backside trying to organise a RP battle based on /duel). For those who say "But I hate PVP! I don't want it on MY server!" just dont join a guild that participates in wars, simple as that. We already know that the engine exists to do this, as we have full on PVP servers, so why not?

Khurghan

05-23-2007, 09:55 AM

Corpse runs and large-scale non-instancing of content are about as much fun as gouging my own eyes out with a fork if you want that kind of fun Vanguard is -> that way.

Zarafein

05-23-2007, 10:19 AM

Velerak@Runnyeye wrote: <blockquote>Death penalties are the best thing that ever happened tbh... if you don't want your character to die because the penalties are high, then you enjoy the risk a bit more. (For people who say, but I dont want consiquences of death!, even permanently lost gear/stats/experience is a lot better than RL rofl)... Another thing that would make the game more fun/appealing, would be consentual wars between guilds and factions on PVE servers. This means that RPers on normal PVE servers can enjoy kicking off faction based roleplay and even inter-faction roleplay on a level that they can manage on thier own. (its a pain in the backside trying to organise a RP battle based on /duel). For those who say "But I hate PVP! I don't want it on MY server!" just dont join a guild that participates in wars, simple as that. We already know that the engine exists to do this, as we have full on PVP servers, so why not?</blockquote>So because death penality in RL is higher than permanently lost gear/stats/experience it has to be in a game? If you want this just destroy your gear after [insert random number of deaths],turn of experience and don't use one of your buffs, i'am pretty sure most players would run away if they were forced to do this. PvP in duels on Pve servers is unbalanced anyway because we don't have the special server rules as far as i know, maybe they could change it that those rules get activated once you start a war, but those guilds have to declare and accept a war just the way it works(worked?) in star wars galaxies.. so yes consentual wars with pvp server rules would be nice.

OGGreyone

05-23-2007, 11:25 AM

Something I really enjoyed in EQ1 was occassionally they would have a few GM Play Dragons. that was awesome.. Everyone is talk to Dragons trying to figure out that to say etc.. I walk up and poke the /emote poke and all hell broke loose.. things like this REALLY make the game fun. That's the kind of GM interaction fun. Just do things like this in differant zone and let everyone have some fun including the GM's. Differant monsters that occassionally appear and you never know where or when and there real players.. Currently you only see Special Event things like this for holidays.. Make these random.. Like Holy.. what's this.. /Guild get over here GM event in (Name Zone). Just my 2 copper and have been 5 yrs EQ1 and 2 Yrs EQ2 and many more in smaller games like Diablo etc.. GM events always bring the server to life.. Can run several even. A Lower lvl one and higher lvl one. Or have the lvl of the event random also.

duranvaer

05-23-2007, 01:01 PM

I would like to see for the title you choose to show (such as Hunter of Gnolls) a Gnoll assassin could strike you at any time and at any place (even during raids hehe)

JohnDoe058

05-23-2007, 02:46 PM

<cite>Giralus wrote:</cite><blockquote>what was great about Spirit shard's = People Loved to Hate them : ) Skilled player's rarely died...</blockquote>Died literally thousands of times, and very proud of it, thank you. Low death count doesn't prove that you're "skilled"...it proves that you're a total sally-boy who won't take risks because he's too busy hiking up his skirt to see if there's any dirt on his white, milky thighs.Look at some of the best-geared people on your server...and some of the people who are known for being excellent with their class...and look on EQ2players to see their death counts. If it's anything like my server, you'll see a good correlation there.Skill is gained thru TRIAL and ERROR, not from doing the tried and proven, over and over.

steelblueangel

05-26-2007, 06:24 PM

I think that risk should be added to raid zones only. This would keep the fabled out toons happy and content within the game and prevent them from being bored. Someone suggested that fabled armor once broken a certain number of times would be beyond repair. I think that is a good idea. But I suggest that the damage would accure not just on death but also would include the amount of damage taken during battle, and upon death it would be useless and could not be repaired and a non-sell item. Many carry additiona weapons and armor to raides this should be prevented. The toons entering the zone should be allowed only what is on their backs. No repair kits should be allowed in the raid zones to prevent repair of items. This would provide a challenge. The raid zones should be increased in difficulty and time required to finish it should be increased. The raid zones should require a week to complete and stipulate that it has to be finished with the orginal raid members or the zone resest. Raid zones should not allow the replacement of members that leave etc once inside no one else should be able to enter the instance; instead, it has to finished with the remaining members. If the raid is a failure the raider's toon should be non-playable for 24 hours. This would provide a challenge.The shard run should be installed in only raid zones and when the toon dies it cannot be rezzed; instead, they should have to run back for their shards. In other words rez should be disabled upon entering the raid zone. Experience loss should be added to raid zones and should be shared with all members. In fact the amount of experice loss should be doubled due to the zone difficulty; thus, 2 or 3 levels can be lossed during the raid. Let's say if a member dies 5 times the level of all raid players would be reduced by one, increasing in level loss with the deaths of others. This would provide a challenge. Eq could even allow guild levels to share in the experience loss; thus, guild levels could be lost in the raid zones. This would provide a challenge to fail in battle and shame your guild with lost levels. Power regen and health regen times should be greatly increased during raid zones, yet battle should continue fast and furious with little intermissions. No regen items should be allowed. No mana stones, no hearts, no shards etc. This would provide a challenge. Aoe's could be cast from the room itself if the raid team stands in one place more than lets say 30 secs. The aoe should be powerful enough to kill all members, this could be random of course. This would provide a challenge. By the way I'm not serious about any of this, but for those that whine for challenges they should have to endure each of these suggestions for a year or more just to see what they are made of.

Giral

05-26-2007, 07:06 PM

<cite>JohnDoe058 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Giralus wrote:</cite><blockquote>what was great about Spirit shard's = People Loved to Hate them : ) Skilled player's rarely died...</blockquote>Died literally thousands of times, and very proud of it, thank you. Low death count doesn't prove that you're "skilled"...it proves that you're a total sally-boy who won't take risks because he's too busy hiking up his skirt to see if there's any dirt on his white, milky thighs.Look at some of the best-geared people on your server...and some of the people who are known for being excellent with their class...and look on EQ2players to see their death counts. If it's anything like my server, you'll see a good correlation there.Skill is gained thru TRIAL and ERROR, not from doing the tried and proven, over and over.</blockquote> I wasn't talking about Raiding, if your a highley skilled player dieng Numerous times in Group content in eq2 then im /Boggled Trial and error in raid's Yeah only way to learn the strat's Trail and error on group content ? only if your doing it with an assasin tank, a healer that is 6 levels lower then the zone, and a nuke happy warlock , other then that what are these group zone's that you have had to die so many times to learn them ? I have ran toon's to the 4th floor in POA when they were under level 20 , if i can get a lvl 14 toon to the 4th floor in a 60+ Group zone and your dieng in there : ) welp somethin is wrong : ) Are these death count numbers from befor UL13 ? if they are not then there are countless reason's why Non-raider's death count's would be high, More time played, Death as an evac, death becuase your an agro junky and rip it off any tank even if it means certain death , etc,,,, Skill is utilizing your class to it's full potential, having knowledge of the classes your grouped with,knowing when to push harder, and when to pull back a bit, watching other's health and power(even if your not tank/healer), Dieng 10,000 times in group content = Lack of skill,i have gone week's without anyone dieng in a group, Guild group's , Freind group's, Pick up group's, there is no reason for massive death number's, every group set up is diffrent gear/spells/item etc.. all different, no need to do a set series of repetative moves to achieve the same goal, i can mix things up in a group many diffrent ways , and still come thru with no death's unless some one is acting the total fool and doing absurd things thinking they are very skilled and know what there doing . please Indulge me tho and explain about all your Death number's from group content ? and how your numerous death's = more skill

JohnDoe058

05-28-2007, 03:27 PM

Giralus, unless you can clear HoF in an 65 minutes, despite multiple deaths, and parse well over 2k zonewode in most raid zones, then you're not more skiled than I am.Andwhy doyouspace outeachparagraphsomuch?

Giral

05-28-2007, 04:21 PM

<cite>JohnDoe058 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Giralus, unless you can clear HoF in an 65 minutes, despite multiple deaths, and parse well over 2k zonewode in most raid zones, then you're not more skiled than I am.Andwhy doyouspace outeachparagraphsomuch?</blockquote> A) i never said i was more skilled then you , i don't even know you : )B) you assume your more skilled then me, becuase you can clear hof (with deaths) ? o right you can do it in 65 minutes , i never timed myself, but im sure in a good group i could clear it with no deaths in a similar time. C) I'm a shadowknight , i'm not set up as a BattleMage, when raidng i can parse 1200 to 1600 depending on group's, and i parse about 600- 800 with occasional 1k+ if im in g-4 with no buff's <--labs raid and me alone in g-4 im not the top Dp'sing shadowknight thats for sure ; ) but i hold my own, if i chose to go all intell gear/proc gear im sure i could up my dp's more and be doing 2k in raid's in the right group , but i don't care to play a battlemage. D) for someone who likes to do things differently why does my spacing bother you so ? i would think you would like to see a diffrent way of posting rather then the same ol same , if you like i could Mush it all into one paragraph instead : ) (this was a lame pot shot by you , but meh if you don't like the way i post who cares : ) E) I Bow down befor your greatness , you truely are the most Skilled , Gifted, Player and Forum poster i have never known /Bow

Glamourpuss

05-30-2007, 04:02 AM

Lots of really great suggestions so far! What a lot of it seems to boil down to is MORE IMMERSION.I for one would love boat rides where something could happen on the way (pirates, krakens, storms, etc) and you and the others on board would need to defend or assist the ship/crew. I for one would love changing environments; go running up the pass to Steppes and find the way blocked by rockslide (there is another way though... and it could be made more dangerous...) I would love to see attackable cities; there's supposed to be a huge battle between good and evil for control of Norrath. Or so that damned video at the start of the game keeps telling us. Form a group and sneak in to wreak havoc on one of the villages! Form a raid group and attack the walls/main gates! If you're in town, rush to help! Suffer massive status loss if you don't! Be sneered at, spat on or refused service by npc's for not helping. More live events (remember the plague event? remember having to avoid players or npc's who were green/coughing/shaking?)That brings me to something else I've always wanted. Do something with the cities. They're sooo static and in many ways pointless. They need to be brought to life. There've been lots of threads over time about buildable housing zones. Put in crafters markets. Serve eq1 style alcohol in city pubs. Put in a player chariot race track (which could be bet upon). GUILD HALLS. Theatres (that groups of players could earn money from if they could get people to turn up - I think there already is something that looks very much like an Elizabethan theatre sitting in the middle of QH). Town Criers. Bring the cities to life.And yes, spirit shards or eq1 style xp-loss. It was a major pain, but it definitely added a sense of death meaning something.Now we do have to admit, that there are a whole lot of people who don't want this stuff. Who just want an MMO version of a video game. And that's their right. There's an easy way around it though. Have servers with different rule-sets. An RP server should have long boat-rides, languages, spirit shards/armour falling to pieces, alcohol, etc etc etc (all that great stuff that people have been suggesting). And PVP. It's RP, right?If some people want RP withough pvp, have an RP-Lite server.For those who don't any of that stuff, have servers that are just as they are now. Wouldn't we all be happy that way? <img src="/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Nightmoon

05-30-2007, 02:59 PM

I just want to see them do the next 10 levels (and any other levels in the future) different than the past. It gets boring getting the same exact CA's, and abilities every tier, just stronger than the previous one. talk about monotony. If you're going to keep every tier exactly the same, then whats the point of raising the cap? and if you are going to raise the cap, then whats the point of keeping it exactly the same as the previous seven tiers? my 2cp.

redde

05-30-2007, 03:18 PM

Change keeps people interested, challenge keeps people interested. People get bored once something becomes predictable, as with predictability comes the lack of risk. Thinking off the top of my head it would be good to have some dynamic content added into the game.. perhaps weather conditions that actually have an effect? Things that make the game different every time you log in To add some risk, there has to be something to lose, but people don't want to be losing stats permanently. I like the idea of a series of titles that depends on how many npcs you have killed between deaths. Obviously this would tend to favour classes that can kill en masse, so perhaps heroics count for 5 solo mobs, and there is a limit to the number of the same type of mob you can kill every game day? Just a thought. Imagine brandishing your 10,000 kill steak title "The Immortal" - then we'll see if you risk running through bunches of ^^^s with snare because you're too lazy to invis, and dying only gets you there quicker anyway!

SerChandos

05-30-2007, 06:38 PM

Making overland travel more interesting is really important for me. I hate running through 3-4 grey zones to get to some instance. (New Tunaria? Acad.?) I think there should be randomly spawning colored mobs that attack you as you travel in a grey zone.Anyone who has done the Raincaller quest knows about the werewolf pack that attacks you while you are on a certain step.This is the idea, except in random locations and have them be colored to you no matter what level you are.The kicker is how frequent to do it. It has to be frequent enough to keep you on your toes but not frequent enough to drive people crazy. Just another idea to add to the pile. Cheers

Conequis

05-31-2007, 02:39 AM

<cite>Nightmoon wrote:</cite><blockquote>I just want to see them do the next 10 levels (and any other levels in the future) different than the past. It gets boring getting the same exact CA's, and abilities every tier, just stronger than the previous one. talk about monotony. If you're going to keep every tier exactly the same, then whats the point of raising the cap? and if you are going to raise the cap, then whats the point of keeping it exactly the same as the previous seven tiers? my 2cp.</blockquote> So far I'd have to say this is the main problem with EQ2 that I have seen. Every spell you get is just an upgrade of a past one. What I would like to see is added procs that go along with the upgraded spells or different spells altogether. It gets boring to know that I will just get an upgrade lifetap that will just do more damage. It would be more fun to know the upgraded lifetap does something different along with the added damage. For summoners, add more pet enhancment spells and make a different lineup of spells. Give new title's. In EQ1, you were a cleric for so long and then at lvl 50 you got a different title (Vicar IIRC). As was pointed out, the same old gets boring. Change it up a bit with the spells and abilities.

Tallisman

05-31-2007, 08:20 AM

Corpse runs sucked. Especially for the casual player. If a player has only an hour to play, why should they have to spend that hour collecting their corpse?

JohnDoe058

05-31-2007, 07:36 PM

<cite>Giralus wrote:</cite><blockquote>A) i never said i was more skilled then you , i don't even know you : )You said that skilled players rarely die. I die a lot, but contend that it not from a lack of "skill", but rather a desire to push the limits.B) you assume your more skilled then me, becuase you can clear hof (with deaths) ? o right you can do it in 65 minutes , i never timed myself, but im sure in a good group i could clear it with no deaths in a similar time. Time yourself, and you'll know. I don't think that you can clear the zone that fast, without teetering on the edge of disaster.C) I'm a shadowknight , i'm not set up as a BattleMage...Okay, so there's no basis for comparison.D) for someone who likes to do things differently why does my spacing bother you so ? i would think you would like to see a diffrent way of posting rather then the same ol same , if you like i could Mush it all into one paragraph instead : )Yeah yeah, I was havin fun.E) I Bow down befor your greatness , you truely are the most Skilled , Gifted, Player and Forum poster i have never known /Bow Darn straight. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote>

TheSpin

06-01-2007, 12:57 PM

<cite>Conequis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nightmoon wrote:</cite><blockquote>I just want to see them do the next 10 levels (and any other levels in the future) different than the past. It gets boring getting the same exact CA's, and abilities every tier, just stronger than the previous one. talk about monotony. If you're going to keep every tier exactly the same, then whats the point of raising the cap? and if you are going to raise the cap, then whats the point of keeping it exactly the same as the previous seven tiers? my 2cp.</blockquote> So far I'd have to say this is the main problem with EQ2 that I have seen. Every spell you get is just an upgrade of a past one. What I would like to see is added procs that go along with the upgraded spells or different spells altogether. It gets boring to know that I will just get an upgrade lifetap that will just do more damage. It would be more fun to know the upgraded lifetap does something different along with the added damage. For summoners, add more pet enhancment spells and make a different lineup of spells. Give new title's. In EQ1, you were a cleric for so long and then at lvl 50 you got a different title (Vicar IIRC). As was pointed out, the same old gets boring. Change it up a bit with the spells and abilities. </blockquote>I agree with these posts. I would prefer it if they just scaled my very first ability up rather than giving me a new on that does the exact same thing every 14 levels if you aren't going to add a little something in them to make them more powerful (rather than changing the numbers and leaving the rest of the description the same). To me getting new skills is what drives the game to be more interesting. It's mostly about my character and how I choose to view him in the game world.As it is now, I feel like every time I level up a few of my skills get signifigantly more powerful and the rest of my skills get slightly less powerful, but it really changes little about how powerful I feel like my character is. Every level you get about 50 hp and 50 mana and you replace a couple old spells with a couple new spells.The levels I actually get 'new' abilities keep me playing. The immersion factor and all of these other ideas are important (especially more GM events with a little more meaning and a little looser structure) but really I care the most about my character and how I view him and his power in relationship to the way I view the power of those around me (friend and foe alike).

Silvershadows

06-01-2007, 10:40 PM

OK, i dont want to sound like that guy that beats a dead horse. But I would like to share what i think would be fun on a PVE server. The guild wars sounds great, i love that idea to be able to wage war against another guild. Haveing the guild leaders and officers talk, set the stakes the rules. Like only being able to fight in ant and CL. But other zones are "Safe Zones". Some restrictions you could place on the war could be say only flagged members may be engaged, and only X amount could be engageable at one time. Also you could have stakes, such as guild "Hero" offers 10 steel clusters, 30plat, and a tittle to wage war against "hunters". Also you could set either a 2 week duration on the war or 100 kills. Winner takes all. I think that the wars could be limited to say 4 guilds per war; IE 3 vs 1 or 2 vs 2 prize split acordingly. That doesnt mean that there couldn't be multipul wars at one time like heros vs hunters in one war, and then Dogs vs dragons in a completly seperate war. And this is what i think would be even more cool, the ability for all those crafting junkies out there.... You could build outposts, a place that all your "war members" could go to replentish there supplys, gain a + bonus for fighting from your outpost. Also you run the risk of your outpost being Over taken by the other guild then that guild would get the bonus. The crafters nad harvesters would then have something NEW and exciting and useful to do. It would take alot of the monotany of crafting away. Also the crafters and harvesters that took place in the creation of the outposts would get a tittle and possible new crafting skills to make crafting more enjoyable. And also more needed, beyond just maknig the MC gear. Another thing i thought would be cool is if NPC fractions could put a bounty on your head, once you have killed a certian number of them, like say once you kill 1000 and get your tittle; that group now sends out random spawns to hunt you down, a harder mob to kill than the normal NPC's. Giving the fraction a lot more of a roll in game play.What about random "game events" such as in Ant that the gnolls are planning to invade Qeynos on such and such a day. And that the citezens would have that much time to prepare there defences to defeat the onslaught. Crafters could work together to build defensive structures, walls, fences to limit movement of the gnolls and to force them to fight in certian areas. And that not only to defened the gates, but to also to invade and destroy the base of the Gnolls. I i think that Tittles, Special gear, and mounts could come from battles like this and those that take part in it. Another thing i thing would be cool would be if the game events would allow crafters to adorn the gear they make. Like lets say Shuckface helped to build an outpost for his guilds war so he gets +1 sta, +2 health bonus to all attunable gear he makes now. Then he helps defend the city by building fences in ant, now he gets +1 stg and +1 defence to all bonus to all attunable gear he makes now and the bility to change the color of his made gear to black and red . And last he helps to rebuild the gates of NQ after they were destroyed so he gets +1 agi + 2 health bonus to all attunable gear he makes now. So his gear would all recieve a +1 sta +1 Str +1 Age +4 health and the bility to change the color of his made gear to black and red. Making this crafter's gear much more valuable then just joecraftsalittle's crap. Also we cant leave out the fighters who took part in the battle, they could recieve a +3% to all worn armor and +2 parry and defence skills. Or for those who invaded the gnoll camp could then get +1 to Crushing, slashing, piersising, and a new skill that would enrage you making your crit chance increased for a short time and a +chance to hit at a cost of defence. But these skills would be a gained form that battle only and not scribed. I know this is a lot of rambling but i do think that it would be fun, and would bring some life back into group play in EQ2 giving a purpos and a reason to group and give some cool bonuses for doing these things. What does everyone else think? (i am kinda a nuboid... So dont hold that against me)

EvilAstroboy

06-04-2007, 02:19 PM

They have so many great instances in the game, I think they should take a leaf out of Guild Wars and World of Warcraft's books and implement heroic mode or hard mode dungeons. Basically just the old dungeons reworked to be harder with better rewards and at max level. This will keep players with plenty of stuff to do considering the large amounts of lower level content around. Also means that all the mid level dungeons arent wasted in obscurity. This could be done for both the group and raid content really, would be nice to go visit the T5 raids again.Also while they are stealing ideas, put battlegrounds in the PvE servers. Ill be honest, I dont like overworld PvP. Its cheap and the level margin is too great. Battlegrounds split into 10 level battles (20-29, 30-39 etc) would be a nice addition to the PvE servers and might return a bit of rivalry between the main cities, I dont think it would be warmly welcomed on PvP servers however.A random dungeon generator would also be cool, but even that has its limitations.

Jesus1stKing

06-10-2007, 07:51 AM

Tonein@Crushbone wrote: <blockquote>I don't think risk is what the game needs so much as it needs more of the unexpected (although risk can be included in this). As is right now, most of the world is stagnant, and it gets that way by design. When going to the old zones, I know they (in substance) haven't changed much since I first started the game. There's no reason to ever revisit a great deal of the content. I agree, perhapes it would be possible to make lower zones more interactive with higher level zones; like you would have to take certian steps in these levels to open up the next part of other quests. And to make it really interesting add level sensative MoB's in these areas, so that as you initially go through them you don't even see these MoB's unless someone else happens to be fighting them, but when you need to go there for a quest update... bang they hit you!!Even if I do visit those old zones, I know nothing will happen to me in them. For example, if I'm walking through Nek Forest at night, instead of fearing a possible ambush on the road by thugs looking for a quick pay, I can hit num lock and auto run my way through half the zone while I go take a bathroom break. The reason why old content gets so boring and tired is because it is almost literally meaningless to a player once they gray it out - it becomes another boring stretch of land we have to run through to get to a place we actually care about. Now, I'm not suggesting gray mobs turn aggro (because that's a horrible idea), but putting in some surprises along the way would do wonders in making the world seem dynamic and relevant instead of just the targeted zones.Another good suggestion! how about they again add level sensative MoB's, that randomly spawn just like harvesting nodes do; that way you wouldnt even know where to expect them or when. It would make traveling different everytime you entered a zone, additionally as someone else suggested adding natural events to require you to travel varing routes would help add to this effect.What if it were actually dangerous to be in the city at night because of the lowlifes that wander the streets and a guard escort might be the best bet to ensure safety? What if, on the boat ride to Butcherblock, the boat was ambushed by pirates and those aboard (including an NPC or two) had to defend it? Perhaps a townsperson or boatmaster has gone missing and you're needed to save them? What if Antonia Bayle had plans to raid Freeport and was recruiting everyone she could find? What if you logged in one day to Qeynos and it was shrouded in darkness from a Freeport curse and the citizens needed to investigate in order to restore the light?You have apparently taken some time to seriously consider this, my compliments for ALL of your good ideas! And once again the idea of adding varing situations would add a degree of spontiniety, risk, and added adventure. I have said several times they should allow for inter city raids, let guild / groups get to gether as needed [I just did an HQ that required me to enter freeport; what a pain to do solo, or as a duo] and do raids. Then allow the NPC's and all available citizens come together to defend their cities. This could make for some really interesting content as well as risk. Additionally they could add local damage consiquences, that would take some time to repair. And as a reward allow for looting of items beyond normal Mob drops, if a citizen dies let the raiding group loot him too [of copurse they would have to make it so that all his stuff was there when he revived (no on the spot rezes) at a different location, say a neighbor city].Regardless of whether any of these are actually feasible or not isn't the concern. It's entirely possible that little things like these can be done without crippling someones play. Unfortunately, the "Live Event" aspect of the game has been one of the most neglected as of late, and it's one of the most important pieces to enjoyability IMO.This is another fine point, since they just had the "Festival of Unity"! I think it would be a great idea to entice guilds to organize more events like this, and to help faciliate them. [BTW a fine well done in the "Festival of Unity"!]As is, people log into the game knowing what to expect, knowing that everything is the same (except on an update day) and a lot of the time, if one doesn't have an idea of something to do beforehand, there's no reason to log in. Adding some unexpected, surprise content would do wonders for giving people a reason to log in everyday, and it would definitely keep the game from being stagnant and boring.</blockquote>

Jesus1stKing

06-10-2007, 07:59 AM

Shyloc@Splitpaw wrote: <blockquote>How about inter-guilde wars? (idea 'borrowed' from Eve)... You could make it so that one guild can declare war on another guild allowing PvP on a PvE server between the guilds which are at war. You could give guild members the option to not be part of the war by giving them a flag that they can toggle to turn participationin the war on/off... but there would have to be a delay (maybe 1/2 an hour) between turning war participation off and you becoming immune to PvP otherwise people would abuse the flag.Another fine point, I am part of an RP server [Antonia Baile] and my guild leader wants to start doing more guild RP'ing. Well he got together with another guild that does a lot of RP'ing and had an event to show the guild what he had in mind. It was interesting, and they had a pretty storyline going involving a guidmate being tempted by an evil guild, but it was rather moot since we couldnt very well do much. It would have been far more interesting if we could raided thier guild house and rescue our guildmate and distroy their evil .... what have you .... grab some items and head home victorious!Also I think your idea about having a flag is a good idea, they could do it as easily as LFG.If you could do this and have some kind of reward for winning the war then that would be good.... maybe something along the lines of members of a guild whi are losing a war have to pay tax to the guild which is 'winning' the war when selling/buying things on the broker or via merchants. Perhaps you could introduce some kind of honour system amongst guild?</blockquote>

Jesus1stKing

06-10-2007, 08:27 AM

I do miss access quests. I like having to earn my way into places. Makes me feel important when I can help friends get into places because I took the time to do the quests needed. I was saddened the day the patch came out and made them all 'optional'. I mean.. c'mon. Should we just let you sit there and make creatures come to you too? Would that be better than making you run out to find them? I like having to work for a goal, like access to a new land or a new dungeon.I agree, I think that is one of the things lacking in this game, there is not enough problem solving. I think the idae of having to do a series activities to gain access to the next area IS worthwhile, and substantial.I do miss real boat rides. I know not everyone wants them, they should make them optional. So if you want to 'ding' to SS in 10 seconds, fine. But if you want to take a 10-15 minutes boat ride with your group you should be able to as well.This was mentioned in one other post, but it is a good point, and perhapes to add a bit of the unexpected as well as a little veriety why not make it so that [using the acursed Random Number Generator] randomly when you boat some where instead of popping up where you expect... you are sent to an instance where there are pirates, or sea monsters. Once again the NPC's and all aboard have to fight to get out alive, and allow for adaquate & appropriate rewards.

Jesus1stKing

06-10-2007, 08:41 AM

<blockquote> NPCS need more INT seriusly AI in eq2 is LAME we need bosses that requires some effort and hinking.... add PUZZLES everywhere WE LOVED THEM !!!!!! just a break from kill kill kill kill we can climb , we can jump , we can swim....we can move objets , we can "break" walls <--- GOOD IDEA but WASTED! , put dungeos with some puzzles involving moving items , breakin walls , put a laberinth as dungeon (instanced) , add some "RANDOME" puzzles , walls that break and oh oh mob or is the right 1? , put a hard climbing wall add risk , if some 1 touch the "dark" warl fall to water and need to reclimb Another fine suggestion!! I agree, we need to add some thinking. People complain about bordom, well what do you expect. They call it Ever Quest, but what that amounts to is going from 1 place to another and killing MoB's for drops. BORING ! ! ! Break it up a bit by making it more interactive, and allow us to use some of our skills for something useful towards the completion of quests!!! And just exactly what is "DISTROY" for anyway ??? ASK PLAYERS WHAT WANT! and get some ideas....~~ </blockquote>

Jesus1stKing

06-10-2007, 08:49 AM

<cite>OGGreyone wrote:</cite><blockquote>Something I really enjoyed in EQ1 was occassionally they would have a few GM Play Dragons. that was awesome.. Everyone is talk to Dragons trying to figure out that to say etc.. I walk up and poke the /emote poke and all hell broke loose.. things like this REALLY make the game fun. That's the kind of GM interaction fun. Just do things like this in differant zone and let everyone have some fun including the GM's. Differant monsters that occassionally appear and you never know where or when and there real players.. Currently you only see Special Event things like this for holidays.. Make these random.. Like Holy.. what's this.. /Guild get over here GM event in (Name Zone). Just my 2 copper and have been 5 yrs EQ1 and 2 Yrs EQ2 and many more in smaller games like Diablo etc.. GM events always bring the server to life.. Can run several even. A Lower lvl one and higher lvl one. Or have the lvl of the event random also.</blockquote>Now there is a new and interesting Idea... they already have some random spawn dragons, just add a few more in various places and levels and put a GM behind it... what an Idea, pluss it would make a nice break from work for the GM's. "going to take a break and kill some newb's, I'll be back in about 15 min" LOL I love it!!!

Skua

06-10-2007, 09:13 AM

<cite>EvilAstroboy wrote:</cite><blockquote>They have so many great instances in the game, I think they should take a leaf out of Guild Wars and World of Warcraft's books and implement heroic mode or hard mode dungeons. Basically just the old dungeons reworked to be harder with better rewards and at max level. This will keep players with plenty of stuff to do considering the large amounts of lower level content around. Also means that all the mid level dungeons arent wasted in obscurity. This could be done for both the group and raid content really, would be nice to go visit the T5 raids again.Also while they are stealing ideas, put battlegrounds in the PvE servers. Ill be honest, I dont like overworld PvP. Its cheap and the level margin is too great. Battlegrounds split into 10 level battles (20-29, 30-39 etc) would be a nice addition to the PvE servers and might return a bit of rivalry between the main cities, I dont think it would be warmly welcomed on PvP servers however.A random dungeon generator would also be cool, but even that has its limitations.</blockquote> i am sorry but playing the same dungeon but harder isnt fun..... but i agree with Battlegrounds <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> , isnt roleplaying breaking since u can choose if u want to go or not.... i am bored LFG for XXX , what i can do? quests? lvl 70 100 aas.....farm? no need money....help friends...no1 need help now...so what? add battlegrounds, mini games , something that is RANDOM each time... pvp is random , u are fighting players... minigames are random u are vs others players... bg are easy add a zone 2 mini castles , kill each other just for the fun , capture the flag? DaoC ideas? <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Jesus1stKing

06-10-2007, 09:23 AM

<cite>Glamourpuss wrote:</cite><blockquote>Lots of really great suggestions so far! What a lot of it seems to boil down to is MORE IMMERSION.I for one would love boat rides where something could happen on the way (pirates, krakens, storms, etc) and you and the others on board would need to defend or assist the ship/crew. I for one would love changing environments; go running up the pass to Steppes and find the way blocked by rockslide (there is another way though... and it could be made more dangerous...) I would love to see attackable cities; there's supposed to be a huge battle between good and evil for control of Norrath. Or so that damned video at the start of the game keeps telling us. Form a group and sneak in to wreak havoc on one of the villages! Form a raid group and attack the walls/main gates! If you're in town, rush to help! Suffer massive status loss if you don't! Be sneered at, spat on or refused service by npc's for not helping. More live events (remember the plague event? remember having to avoid players or npc's who were green/coughing/shaking?)That brings me to something else I've always wanted. Do something with the cities. They're sooo static and in many ways pointless. They need to be brought to life. There've been lots of threads over time about buildable housing zones. Put in crafters markets. Serve eq1 style alcohol in city pubs. Put in a player chariot race track (which could be bet upon). GUILD HALLS. Theatres (that groups of players could earn money from if they could get people to turn up - I think there already is something that looks very much like an Elizabethan theatre sitting in the middle of QH). Town Criers. Bring the cities to life.And yes, spirit shards or eq1 style xp-loss. It was a major pain, but it definitely added a sense of death meaning something.Now we do have to admit, that there are a whole lot of people who don't want this stuff. Who just want an MMO version of a video game. And that's their right. There's an easy way around it though. Have servers with different rule-sets. An RP server should have long boat-rides, languages, spirit shards/armour falling to pieces, alcohol, etc etc etc (all that great stuff that people have been suggesting). And PVP. It's RP, right?If some people want RP withough pvp, have an RP-Lite server.For those who don't any of that stuff, have servers that are just as they are now. Wouldn't we all be happy that way? <img src="/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote>This is probably one of the best posts on this thread!! Well said ! ;}

natasha

06-10-2007, 08:56 PM

I really like the idea of GM live events and things that affect the world, such as a GM controlled epic raid mob to take down, or a dragon that threatens the city, or for PvP server to enable people to raid cities and attack them. I was devastated to learn that I couldn't sneak into the city of opposing alignment and attack people unless they attacked me first. If I could only change one thing about PvP servers, it would be to enable players to attack eachother in the cities. For PvE servers, I have always thought some form of guilds warring could be fun. Instead of the two competing raid guilds smack-talking, they could challenge eachother. What if we had Guild Halls or an area a guild could set-up camp in so to speak..with towers and points to defend, and any guild could challenge them to take it over? That would just be waaayy too exciting. It would also add a new element to being in guild, and give raiding guilds something else to do besides run around grinding instances for gear so they can try to get server firsts. Something else I agree with is live events where outcomes can permanently affect the world around you...if you don't fight off the dragon coming to the city...he will start destroying parts of it....and then in turn it could be a live event to rebuild or redesign parts that were destroyed, sort of like the building of the towers and spires.

Thormax

06-11-2007, 04:45 AM

I personally have been playing eq2 since november 2004 and the things i believe should be brought back are the citizen ship quests and the class progression quests. back then it ment something if you do an AQ which where HARD. they should also add more things that can be done outside of combat suck as maybe an action house where people go in and bid on items like a real action or diffrent ways to gamble yes i know we have the pig races and the goblin but how many times can you sit there and press the same button OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN!!! I have 2 70's and one of them is missing 3 masters and is raid fabled and is in the top 60's for zerker hp world wide... and right now i am reading this forum because i have done everything in the game and even though i want to play there is nothing to do except PP (which i'm sorry but you can only do so many times without hoping the zone gets deleted) the only fun thing except for the live events (which i love and think there should be a lot more of (that's the reasone we have guides in the game right?)) was the glitch with the gnomish stilts which kept me entertained for many many hours until SOE desicded to take it out. yes even simple things like trying to jump to places where no one else can get and having contests with you friends about who can get there or if it's possible at all is really fun.

Noaani

06-11-2007, 01:45 PM

<cite>SkuaII wrote:</cite><blockquote>i am sorry but playing the same dungeon but harder isnt fun..... </blockquote>I disagree.If SoE made the following zones all scale to level (and code it in an automatic manner, so that any new level cap increase was automatically accounted for, and did not require new coding), I would be more than happy for a very long time in this game...Shattered Stillness : Epic Nektropos Castle Nektropos Castle: Return Nektropos Castle: Tribulation Estate of Unrest Poets Palace Bastion of Flames Deathfist Citadel Meeting of the Minds A deserted Mine Spirits of the Lost Echoes of Time Commune of K'Dal Icespire Summit Icebound The Clockwork Mencae Factory The Court of Al'Afaz The Vault of the FallenThese zones, to me at least, are representitive of what this game can be. They are a mix of raid zones and heroic zones (exactly half of each actaully, although I did not do that on purpose), they are spread out over most of the game world, they have a good amount of lore involved with them for the most part, but most importantly, these are the areas in game I have had the most fun.

Glamourpuss

06-16-2007, 09:05 AM

There's a tonne of MMO's out there now and more coming all the time. It's almost saturation point, and people are starting to realise that in many ways they're all just the same. Which is one of the reasons that despite my occasional grumble about EQ2 I'm still here in this game. What EQ2 has though in it's system of constant Live Updates is the opportunity to grow and adapt.With that in mind, there's something else happening out there at the moment that's garnering a lot of real attention. And that's Second Life. It seems like what people are looking for now is a virtual place where they can simply be. Hang out. Live.While I'd never suggest they'd copy, if EQ could merge the concept of Second Life with the gameplay aspects of an MMO, they'd have something on their hands that would be truly unique. That would stand out in the crowds of the MMO world. In many ways, they have the bare bones of an environment like that already in place. With their ability to update, grow and change they could take all this great stuff that's being suggested on this thread and voila! Living cities, vibrant and dynamic character and guild interactivity, and surprising/unexpected pve environments. I think a lot of the time when people ask for a new Tier they simply want something that an MMO hasn't offered before. Could there then be character progression (parallel to adventure class progression) in other ways through the cities, which the devs have said time and again they want to remain the central focus, the place that characters always return to; Could characters get jobs? Gain promotions or be fired because they're always out adventuring? Could city status in that sense actually mean something? Surely there are players out there who would love to take one of those un-enterable or empty city buildings and start an actual functioning pub (or get a group of like minded players to form a collective to do so)? Other players could then meet there after adventures and show off their latest loot. What if auto-consumption of food and drink didn't happen in the cities? What if you had to go to a restaurant to eat? Think how integrated the crafting and adventuring communities could really become... Would it be possible to start a newspaper with actual news from the front-lines, the latest political scandal from within the guild ranks, juicy player gossip?"So-and-So Guild beats Woushi! claims their leader Whoseewhatsit. Did it really happen? The Inquirer finds out!" What if guilds could win and lose city contracts? Imagine if a guild could become a Far Seas Trading Company! How about sending bards out as Ambassadors between the cities? Assassins sent out to make an attempt on the life of Nathan Ironforge? Imagine being a wizard and actually working in the Mage Tower. Could a zerker become the Captain of Lucan's personal guards? Could we meet Lucan? What if a GM playing Antonia turned up to a player run restaurant? Imagine the excitement if a swashy stole her purse while she was there! This is just off-the-wall stuff, but added to the game dynamic we already have it could make something that people would just want to spend time in, whatever the game-style they like.

mamasan

06-16-2007, 09:21 AM

For those wanting corpseruns, reboot your computer everytime you die. If it's at later levels, go outside for an hour too before returning to computer. You like penalties? Why not create them yourselves? While you are at it, get someone to pull out the internet cable at random times for that little bit of EXTRA risk.

Glamourpuss

06-16-2007, 11:01 PM

Thinking about the death mechanic, and how to add risk back into the game, what would everyone think of an expansion on the way armour currently degrades with each death? We currently have 10 deaths before our armour falls off. Other than that, nothing much happens. So you can see where people are coming from when they ask for more risk. That's great for some people and provides a game dynamic where you can just get right into the action, but it leaves others with a feeling of superficiality.What if we retained the system of 10 deaths, but as each death occurred one/maybe two of your equipment slots became unusable - starting at say, 70%. That way you have a couple of deaths that are still risk free. For example, you hit 70% and your gloves fall off, and that slot becomes unequippable. At 60% you lose your bracers and an earring, etc. etc. It'd start to get really scary then, going into a tough zone. And it would become harder and harder the further you went in. The sense of achievement would also be huge if you made it through with just a bit of breastplate hanging off your body. The raiders could feel really proud of themselves if they still were able to take down the big bosses then.If you got down to 0% it could be made that you not only had to visit the repairer, but also the local priest guild. After all, it's the gods who have been providing all these free resurrections and if you abuse their good graces by continually getting killed, you're gonna have to work off some serious penance - such as a series of quests to earn status, or something similar to city writs.If you only visit the repairer (or use a repair kit) and not the priests, you get your 10 deaths back but the next time you reach 0% the penalty will be even more severe, something random - ranging from -10% to your defense capabilities, one of your abilities no longer functioning, a 10% increase in the number of times you get resisted, etc. etc. all the way through to a level loss if you continue to only visit the repairer and ignore the priests and your god.That combines the death system that some players want to keep, and adds risk for those who want to add that. What does eveyone think?

Bolooen

06-17-2007, 08:18 AM

First, let me say I am a casual player that doesn't have the time or inclination to play for 20-30 hours at a time, so I don't know what thats like. I often play for up to 3-4 hours at a time. I for one say absolutely no changes to death penalties of any kind. I played EQ1, and as someone earlier said, I was afraid to explore beyond general zone lines until the mobs were too easy. I may only be able to play for 1-2 hours at most, and if I died, my entire night is spent trying to do corpse run so I don't lose equipment. theres fun times, spend most of what little time you have running naked through zones trying to find your corpse. Instead, I die and not get heavily penalized. So what. That gives me more reason to keep trying new areas and fighting harder mobs. I'm by no means an expert in playing. But I can proudly say I was able to solo an orange mob (no arrows) and live. In EQ1, I never tried that. I often camped blues because trying anything higher would result in another long corpse run and experience debt that I couldn't rebuild until the next time i played. No thx.I also don't agree with hell levels. Won't that just mean experience grind, which is a boring part of most MMOs? Lets see, what is boring to me?Camping names is one. I know this probably too easy for some people, but if I need to kill a specific name in a zone, I want that name to either be up when I enter zone or be first on respawn, rather than constantly killing placeholders on 20-minutes timers then waiting. Getting Lady Samiel in Sinking Sands was a nightmare. Thats not fun to me, I could be working on other quests/tradeskills. Another related thing is get rid of rare quest drops from rare mobs. I've had a couple of quests for drops from Gulthex mystics in Nek Forest. Getting mystics to respawn can be tough, and the drop rate i need is terrible. For 10 items, I killed about 30 mystics, which took a total of about 70 overall placeholder kills to do. I get bored having to kill stuff I don't need over and over waiting for something I do need.Frankly, tradeskills are boring. I know I'll get lynched for this, but when I played a trial of world of Warcraft, I loved their tradeskills. Have the materials, pick what you want, click combine. You have the item and maybe a skillup. Instead, in Eq2, I sit there and spam buttons over and over and over in order to get the item I want. I stare at the screen for hours trying to get my skill level up. Writs help a little for rewards, but still very monotonous. My armoring is at 68, so I have good armor from it, but it just get boring working on it. In EQ1, I loved being able to do all standard tradeskills with one character (using AAs). It gives that character a bigger variety of things to do without having to start over with money, exp, faction, etc. I know its sad but I dont' twink my alts, I make them do their own work, otherwise wouldn't that make the game too easy and boring for the alt who is overequipped? I may make armor for them if they get the materials, but they have to earn the ingredients first.One of the biggest reasons I've basically switched from EQ1 to EQ2 is quests. I have now completed a little over 1000 quests and 80+ collections. Its more fun in EQ2 because I'm accomplishing stuff each time I play. In EQ1, completing quests was tedious from spending hours/days camping hundreds of mobs for rare drops, while in EQ2 completing quests is usually easier. One suggestion is more variety to quests offered, especially in Tomes. I see alot of kill 10 of this mob, kill 20 of this mob, etc, while the ones I liked more do involve killing some but often have talking to someone else or finding a location, etc.Overall, I personally don't think EQ2 is terribly boring. When I'm on I can chat and laugh with my awesome guildies and work on quests. i've gotten enough experience from quests, I don't even need to go around killing random mobs just to exp grind. I like the reduced risk in this game. It gives me the opportunity to try more.Bolpad Lightbringer (Spirited Misfits) Everfrost Server

Maroger

06-17-2007, 12:11 PM

<cite>Rayleen wrote:</cite><blockquote>corpse runs - i remember when you did things like PoF and you wiped, taking hours to get everything going againexp loss - when you die you should lose exp, make it so people can lose levels if they lose to much, rather than just a little debt and revived sicknesshell levels - yeah thats right i said it, and anyone who played EQLive early on knows what im talking about, but rather than every 5 levels past lvl 30 or 40, make it so that past 50 EVERY lvl is a hell level, and make it get worse at 60, and then 70....bigger loot tables - give mobs bigger loot tables, this will make items more rare, so a mob like say Varsoon drops 3-4 items everytime, from a table of 30-40 items (like put in class armor sets to pre-EoF zones, i think this has been done to the new DFC, but do it to the other zones too)permanent physical injuries - when you die in combat there should be a chance that you suffer from a permanent non reversable dmg, like loss of a finger or two on your sword hand or something like that that permanently reduces agi/str or lowers your chance to hit, yeah this could suck but it would give people a reason not to take their lvl 10 thru zones like EF and EL like i do soon as i get the ability to gain AAbest of the best competitions - gms used to hold competitions and members of every class could compete with won another to earn titles and such in city events - qeynos and freeport npcs could raid each others cities and players with houses and such close to the city borders could run the chance of their houses burning down or being pillaged (yeah this would suck lol)BG writs - freeport citizens could band together in an instanced zone to raid qeynos npc controlled keeps/encampments and qeynos citizens could do the samemake exiles Pkable - people who are exiled from qeynos or freeport or kelethin are hunted down by adventurers or their former citySabotage - make sabotage quests actually do something to the opposing citiestraits - add more racial traits, more character specialization abilites (the ones that add hp/mana, and increase %)</blockquote>I really think you ought to consider playing another game. I remember hell levels and thought they were awful. YOu notice they are no longer in the game. There was a reason they were taken out -- people hated them.FOr those of us who like Norrath the way it is in this game, we certainly don't want to return to things that made EQ1 a reall nightmare at times. As I said you need to go play another game.The risk in this game is fine just the way it is.

MadLordOfMilk

06-18-2007, 07:09 AM

<a href="http://www.guildwars.com/gameplay/hardmode/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Hard Mode</a>. Or, at the very least, some HARD group dungeons. Show me ONE other than MM Castle (which isn't THAT hard). <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Durelli

06-18-2007, 09:04 AM

/agree on Hell levels..! Just let us hang out leveling for bloody ages in the shiney new zones. Throw in tonnes of different level raids throughout the tiers. It's not perfect but it will add some of the notoriety and respect to actually reaching cap. This is level 80 now.. I want it to be very hard to achieve. Maybe 70+ is the time that exp debt starts to hurt bad? Or starts to delevel you. People will burn through it I know but for the rest of us give us something to work for. I'm also hoping the mobs in kunark will be absolute killers.. edits = I is Cpt retardo

Maroger

06-18-2007, 01:35 PM

<cite>Durellius wrote:</cite><blockquote>/agree on Hell levels..! Just let us hang out leveling for bloody ages in the shiney new zones. Throw in tonnes of different level raids throughout the tiers. It's not perfect but it will add some of the notoriety and respect to actually reaching cap. This is level 80 now.. I want it to be very hard to achieve. Maybe 70+ is the time that exp debt starts to hurt bad? Or starts to delevel you. People will burn through it I know but for the rest of us give us something to work for. I'm also hoping the mobs in kunark will be absolute killers.. edits = I is Cpt retardo </blockquote> Turn off XP - that will slow you down.The last thing we need is for Kunark to turn into a Raiding expansion -- remember the failure that was GoD in EQ1 that was a raiding expansion and a miserable flop.

Glamourpuss

06-19-2007, 08:24 AM

Durellius, that's a great sig! <img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Taeff

06-22-2007, 03:37 AM

Old EQ experience through Kithicor woods, during the day it was fine and dandy and you can run through with no problems. But when darkness fell and night came around, you would be afraid to go past the first log cabin with the undead monsters that lurk about and that were much higher lvl than the mobs during the day. EQ2 needs to bring something like that back to the world to keep people on there toes and make them question if they are willing to risk running through a zone.

Zabjade

06-22-2007, 04:48 AM

Well here is one thing, the Rust Eaters in In the outer edges of Freeport begin expanding outward across the globe and they get a new attack Degrade Armor and evey time they manage to get it off 10% damage to your armor, they wont be difficult to kill, but they can ruin your day especially if the Boss keeps Scores of them in the room just before himself.Kind of like that worm in the raid zone in Zekk I swear I died only a couple of times But I was Nekid and in alt clothing when we took it down.Kithicor still exists, but it is an island soutwest of the Enchanted Lands, but no ship can get easily, the winds die and you can only drift. People start dying as they get close as their life force is sucked out of them and if the manage to land alive, the trees air and plants are all dead, and once night falls they are all Undead as well as the battle remnents.

Matari

06-30-2007, 04:40 AM

Casual player or not, risk vs reward is a central part of having fun in an MMO. In EQ2, there is no sense of agitation and uneasiness, much less fear, when you are near death or roaming near powerful mobs. I also play EvE online, where you can lose 10 hours of work if you go PvPing in nice equipment. You might think that would totally suck, but it really gets your heart pumping, keeps your friends close, and you get good at running <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. Now, EQ2 is a casual game, so there needs to be a compromise. I think the best approach would be to keep corpse-runs and time-sinks out of EQ2. but add straight exp loss on death. (to reiterate, no repetitive time sinks like corpse runs). If you think that's too harsh, you will adapt. As risk increases, you might find yourself not running headlong into those dark orange mobs, or you might even lose nerve and run for it when you hit 30% health... An added bonus is that good equipment is worth more, because it is harder to get, which makes getting it give a real sense of accomplishment, a feeling sorely lacking from EQ2 atm. This added sense of accomplishment really makes guilds come closer together, and memorable experiences can be much easier to come by when you're "fighting for dear life" rather than just saying "oops an add, we're probably going to die." Believe it or not, meaningful death penalties seemingly lessen the grind. A "boring" quest which once seemed like a grind might actually be engaging and challenging. The engaging part is important, if you are more engaged, you take in more of the game, and might find that the grind was a byproduct of taking the shortest path from A to B. Brad MQuaid (big guy for early EQ1) discusses this in detail, and it really does make sense to have some fear of death when you think about it. (yes yes, his game Vanguard SOH wasn't so good, but that's because he's a bad team leader, and didn't focus, not because he didn't understand mmos.) Anyway, the point of this was to urge all types of players to not go "eww" as soon as they see any type of death penalty. Try to look at the flip side, and remember, no pain, no gain.

Kostarsus

05-24-2008, 04:51 PM

First off all, you have to fix some thinks, to make the game harder and more interesting First of all, make all spells function in the way, they are described. In example the dispel of the mage have no effect on any creature.2nd Don't script the bosses so that it is useful to use all abillitiesAnd now to make the game more interesting, cycle the abillities of the named bosses. In example on the first time you zone in a zone, the boss drains mana, in the second time he fears ,etc. The cycle of abilities should be randomly. So everytime you enter a zone, it is a new zone for the players. Sure the mobs in the zone are the same, by name, but the abillities differ.

Zabjade

05-25-2008, 07:54 PM

I have an idea, have someone you kill come back after you again and again either undead or even resurrected (What only PC's have access to Clerics and Rez tents?) he levels with you and sometimes you have to fight together most of the time he and possibly others you killed will team up to get you. even in your own HOUSE!

Odys

05-28-2008, 01:11 AM

Qandor

05-28-2008, 04:44 AM

It is a very odd phenomenum in MMO's that runs contrary to most other endeavors. As players became more skilled, the games became dumber and dumber. Instead of the playerbase as whole craving greater challenges in their gaming as the genre matures, we have seen quite the opposite. I cannot really account for this. It doesn't exist in sports and it doesn't exist in any other type of gaming that I am aware of. Why aren't there more MMO players who would like something a bit more challenging next time around? It seems each new game is more simplistic than the last. Developers are never going to make the move on their own unless they see a demand for a more challenging game. For development houses it is far safer to design their games for the lowest common denominator. Hopefully, for them, even totally clueless people will buy it and play it. Only thing that will ever change this is if players begin to shun the genre as a whole and I do not forsee that happening.There has to be risk in these games. Without risk they become boring as hell. Games need the old Wide Worls of Sports thing, "the thrill of victory, the agony of defeat". If you cannot fail, you cannot really win either.I want to be afraid of a zone. I want to have a real risk going there. However, I also want a compelling reason to go there anyway.

Apocroph

05-28-2008, 11:33 AM

<cite>Qandor wrote:</cite><blockquote>I cannot really account for this. It doesn't exist in sports and it doesn't exist in any other type of gaming that I am aware of. </blockquote>Here's a hint: How many sports can you excel in whilst sitting in an armchair?

CorpseGoddess

05-30-2008, 05:45 PM

I mentioned this in another thread, but I'll say it here, too...Give us more quests scaled to our individual levels. Then you could plunk me in the middle of, say, Everfrost---with the possibility of facing level 80 mobs in terrain I've traveled and know well.Take us "back" through some of the zones and give us something to do there that's new. For me, that would considerably up the feeling of taking risks.

Zabjade

05-30-2008, 06:08 PM

Like I stated before a "Vendetta" system might be an interesting idea to add risk, Imagine you kill an NPC say more then once you get bumped up on his Hate list and he gains the ability to stalk you from zone to zone even in your on home....or is that TOO Evil <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

Yodaya

06-11-2008, 04:51 PM

1. Death penalty: 10% exp loss from your current level when died (you can also lose your level if you are less than 10% into the current level)2. Increase monster agro radius at least 3 times or more than current.3. Increase the power of solo mobs by at least 2 fold.4. Require, access quests must be completed in order to access every zone past Tier 3. No level will grant free access to higher level zones.5. Increase roaming monsters, and introduce surprise attacks by monsters in certain areas.

Typhonian

06-12-2008, 09:59 AM

<cite>Yodaya wrote:</cite><blockquote>1. Death penalty: 10% exp loss from your current level when died (you can also lose your level if you are less than 10% into the current level)2. Increase monster agro radius at least 3 times or more than current.3. Increase the power of solo mobs by at least 2 fold.4. Require, access quests must be completed in order to access every zone past Tier 3. No level will grant free access to higher level zones.5. Increase roaming monsters, and introduce surprise attacks by monsters in certain areas.</blockquote>Dearie me, I thought have thought that people would have realised by now that this sort of masochistic McQuaidism nearly killed EQ2 a few years back. To all the masochists on this thread who equate time-played with skill: no thanks. If you're that keen on corpse runs and shards, as someone said, reboot your computer after death. If you're that keen on uber-death penalties, switch combat experience off. If you're that keen on access quests (now they were total cockblocks), stop going to zones you don't think you deserve. Most of all, when you finally decide to move out of your parent's cellar and get a job, you'll realise that EQ2 is a game. Stop trying to turn EQ2 into a job.

article

06-28-2008, 10:42 PM

I see alot of people specualting on what will happen with AAs when the level capped get raised again. At some point SoE is either gonna have to say "WOAH, no more AAs for joo" or add an Alternate AA system on top of the current one. This would be the perfect place to add "at death" risk penalties. I don't want to get bogged down by trying to speculate on or think up all the particualrs of what this new AAA system may be like, so let's just keep it simple with a simple example.Let's say the AAA is all about racial based abilities. Let's say you set your EXP gain like you did in EQ1 . . . you set a slider to convert 10%, 20%, 30%, . . . 90%, or 100% of exp gained into AAA exp points. Now you have an area of the game where you can throw some old school exp loss death penalties at the players. You can put soul shards back in the game to refund some of the lost AAA exp. You could even start to cripple the strength of the gained abilities with debuffs across the board based on how many soul shards you have sitting around the world. I think it's very important that SoE caters to the players who came to EQ2 hoping for a little of that old school tough love that EQ had. But we have to get over the fact that corpse runs and basic exp loss will never be added to the game, the risk vs reward is going to have to come from somewhere else.

Rainmare

06-29-2008, 03:02 AM

<cite>Typhonian wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Yodaya wrote:</cite><blockquote>1. Death penalty: 10% exp loss from your current level when died (you can also lose your level if you are less than 10% into the current level)2. Increase monster agro radius at least 3 times or more than current.3. Increase the power of solo mobs by at least 2 fold.4. Require, access quests must be completed in order to access every zone past Tier 3. No level will grant free access to higher level zones.5. Increase roaming monsters, and introduce surprise attacks by monsters in certain areas.</blockquote>Dearie me, I thought have thought that people would have realised by now that this sort of masochistic McQuaidism nearly killed EQ2 a few years back. To all the masochists on this thread who equate time-played with skill: no thanks. If you're that keen on corpse runs and shards, as someone said, reboot your computer after death. If you're that keen on uber-death penalties, switch combat experience off. If you're that keen on access quests (now they were total cockblocks), stop going to zones you don't think you deserve. Most of all, when you finally decide to move out of your parent's cellar and get a job, you'll realise that EQ2 is a game. Stop trying to turn EQ2 into a job.</blockquote>time played can and DOES in many cases = skill. Because I play my character 30 hours a week,I am bound to know tricks and little hidden aspects that someone that does not devote that kind of time won't know. it's simple logic, and applies in teh real world as well. the guy that works full time writing software inevitably does a better job of it then the guy working part time. he has more time invested, more time spent doing it, adn thus, has aqcuired skill and knowledge that makes it easier/faster for him then the other guy.there's a reason they had access quests. it was to make sure you were ready to go to the place you were intending to travel to. and to be honest, that [Removed for Content] comment is pretty much only used by the 'I play 6 hours a week solo' people. heaven forbid you'd have to get a group for 45 min to do a quest or series that netted you xp/loot and access to a new area.people like you are part of the problem. there has to be risk in game. there has to be a punishment, a real one, for being stupid or going to places you shouldn't. .5% dept that is cleared in a single kill, a few gold spent, and a 'debuff' that for the most part can be completely ignored doesn't cut it.in EQ1, the reason wasn't fear that kept groups camped by zone lines. it was density. in EQ1, mob density was probably 3 times what it is in Eq2, and almost ALL of them roamed around. if you went to the middle of a zone, it was asking for a beating. it could mean literally 30+ minutes of almost nonstop combat because every couple seconds a new wanderer would aggro.I want to be able to be level 60 or 70 and have the tank with me know what body pulling is, and know how to do it. Or have a scout that knows how to help manage aggro himself, so that he doesn't pull it so often. a mage that knows what spells to use and when so he doesn't get splatted.Instead, we have tanks that don't know how to tank. scouts that think only about thier parsers, and mages that do the same. we have healers that don't know what half thier buffs do or how thier heals even work. and why? becuase they never had to learn. there was no penalty for being dumb or for acting foolish that stung enough to get it into their heads that what they were doing was counter productive.Corpse runs would fix that [Removed for Content] in a hurry. people would learn you don't take a level 20 into a zone designed for a level 30. they would learn to body pull if they need to. it would improve the desire for CC classes. but if you don't want corpse runs naked back...then put back the spirit shard.or find a way to make death sting enough that I won't ever have to worry about a level 60+ character not know how the hell his class works, how to play in a group setting...or know for a fact that if I do come across one, it's becuase he bought his character on Ebay.Or, they could increase the mobs in overland zones by about 200%, make them all roamers and put in maybe 1/3 of that as named heroics. make all dungeons have the respawn timers and realtive difficulty of Sebilis.

Armironhead

06-30-2008, 10:18 AM

<cite>mamasan wrote:</cite><blockquote>For those wanting corpseruns, reboot your computer everytime you die. If it's at later levels, go outside for an hour too before returning to computer. You like penalties? Why not create them yourselves? While you are at it, get someone to pull out the internet cable at random times for that little bit of EXTRA risk.</blockquote>While this is funny stuff (and the typical comment that you see when these types of issues are argued on the forums), what it ignores is that the game is utterly risk free. In the absence of death penalties, being a good or bad player makes no difference. Ultimately everyone will grind to 80. Hence, for a significant portion of the population, the game becomes a repeatitive grind. Sure there are some folk that like the mundane and they will be the last to leave the game, but for the rest, the same old, same old is just not cutting it.

Armironhead

06-30-2008, 10:25 AM

Spyderbite

06-30-2008, 11:00 AM

<cite>Uumuuanu wrote:</cite><blockquote> So, I pose this to the players, how do we put risk in the game without making people mad or quit? Things like making respawn points dangerous not lazy mans evac points or travel bonuses? How do we do it?</blockquote>I have always played on a PvP server, so lack of risk or challenge has never been an issue for me. Everything one does where I come from is risky, even harvesting. And, the thrill of "having to watch your back" is constant.Regardless of how challenging they made the mobs, they are still just AIs which can be figured out eventually. That's why I was able to harvest in T7 at level 35. Figure out their pattern and move around them.This is the reason I've never played on a PvE server. In order to have fun, the game must be constantly challenging for me. Predictable mobs, no matter how many of them or how powerful are not challenging. I'd be bored inside of a week.Not trying to say that joining a PvP server is the only way to add risk to one's game. But, it is definitely an option that many, many people choose after experiencing burnout on the PvE servers. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />