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Emerix
05-09-2007, 11:26 AM
<p>I know a lot of people will disagree here but i dearly hope the level cap increase is only a hoax. The progression from KOS to EOF was perfect. You should have some KOS gear to go to EOF , Heroic and raid wise , at level 70 . That would totally work again . Another 50 or 100 AA would be a lot better thanthe pressure to get another 10 levels of masters .</p><p>And then again . why should everyone be able to kill Avatars of the gods ? I really doubt at level 80 they will be a challenge . and most certainly Avatars of GODS should BE a challenge .</p>

Shompta
05-09-2007, 11:44 AM
I'm guessing avatars will get a boost with the expansion.

Cusashorn
05-09-2007, 11:47 AM
We need level 80. I'm getting tired of using the same skills over and over again. Some new abilities would be welcomed.

Geothe
05-09-2007, 11:50 AM
<p>but cush,</p><p>they will not be brand new at all, they will only be the same spell as 14 levels prior, just a bit stronger, and probably 1 new ancient teaching spell.</p><p> and in exchange, when you reach lvl 80, there will be half the content to use as lvl 70s have now.</p><p>I think increasing the lvl cap is a bad idea.</p>

MullenSkywatcher
05-09-2007, 11:51 AM
I agree, I want to ding.  And the best part will be that SoS is now grey for Claymore updates!  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Galithdor
05-09-2007, 11:55 PM
I dont have a single level 70 and i like that they are raising the cap lol dunno why but i like it <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Talz
05-10-2007, 01:51 AM
It's needed and I was as against an increase in EoF as was possible.

Rabid-Othmir
05-10-2007, 02:16 AM
<cite>Shompta wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm guessing avatars will get a boost with the expansion.</blockquote>I certainly hope the developers don't overlook this. I would hope the representatives of the gods remain quite powerful as the game continues to expand.

Hardain
05-10-2007, 02:24 AM
They did boost T5 raids with DoF, i hope they will do same with this, few levels to epics so they will be atleast blue at 80lvl.

Kri
05-10-2007, 05:41 AM
<p>When I first heard about the level cap increase I wasn't too thrilled about it. Still not exactly thrilled, but I've come to terms with it. The biggest downside is that it will turn a vibrant T7 community into a more spread out T7/T8 community, meaning less opportunities for groups in both tiers. Like I've written elsewhere I do hope they add new skills instead of just upgrades to the older ones. The level 57-70 spells could instead get a small automatic boost for each level above 70, making them still useful even at 80. Like someone pointed out, this goes for the Ancient Teaching spells too. Or perhaps they should upgrade them at 72, 75 and 78, while adding entirely new spells for the other T8 levels.</p><p>I really hope most of the T8 zones will be available to 'normal' people too and not just to Fabled out raiders.</p><p>I also hope there will be a couple of long, involved solo/duo quest lines, for those of us who hate grinding and who rarely raid. </p>

BoriKitty
05-10-2007, 05:50 AM
I agree with hoping it's level 75....

Emerix
05-10-2007, 06:08 AM
Cap increase to 75 would be completely fine . You could keep the fabled stuff and most the masters you eared with lots of blood and sweat . when its 80 its like starting all over . First (boring) grind then (boring) farming to get the same masters you worked so hard before . just 10 % better . And a 5 level increase wouldnt trivialize the EOF content . It would still be white or light blue .

nadym
05-10-2007, 11:16 AM
I am too for the level cap to 75. I want to continue using the great number of instances we have now plus the ones in RoK. More things to do. I think will be a sad day when i level to a point in which most of things from Kos or Eof are grey. 75 for the win plus maybe some more AAs! Another approach would like is to have increased the con green level from 10 to 15. So still mobs at 65 are light green, maybe will a lesser chance for a drop and reduced xp.

eshokes
05-10-2007, 11:49 AM
<p>Long over due.</p><p> Even though I have no level 70 adventurers at the moment my level 70 crafters are going to be tickled to hear that changes may finally be around the corner.</p><p> Very excited to hear about a new expansion.</p><p><img src="/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

lilmohi
05-10-2007, 11:55 AM
<cite>Geothe wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>but cush,</p><p>they will not be brand new at all, they will only be the same spell as 14 levels prior, just a bit stronger, and probably 1 new ancient teaching spell.</p><p> and in exchange, when you reach lvl 80, there will be half the content to use as lvl 70s have now.</p><p>I think increasing the lvl cap is a bad idea.</p></blockquote> Actually not quite, a lot of your spells that were not so great because you got them more than 10 levels ago will become the new hotness while your current best spells will become a little dated.  Furthermore for all we know KoS might have as much t8 content as there is t7 content currently.  Don't forget only a fraction of EoF was t7 content, and KoS was not that big, (TT was all t6).  Also keep in mind that some of EoF content is really T8.  I really look forward to being able to go into Mistmore castle and being able to live past the first named. <img src="/smilies/49869fe8223507d7223db3451e5321aa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  KoS has been promised to be the biggest expansion ever, and since only one zone is dedicated to the new race i think it's safe to assume there will be more than enough content to keep most people busy until the next expansion.  Finally if you aren't bored with what t7 has to offer yet, trust me by the time RoK comes out you will be, so it won't matter if the old zones are worthless since you probably wouldn't be going back to them anyhow.

ZerkerDwarf
05-10-2007, 12:19 PM
<p>You aren't fully T7 EoF-fabled yet and now people "have to" be obsessed aquiring T8 equipment and masters again :-/</p><p>Guild level 70 and extending the both existing achievement trees to level 100 each would have been enough for this expansion pack.</p><p>Or other features people have been demanding for a long time could have been implemented instead of extending the world to level 80.</p><p>Or including some other spheres the characters can develop in.</p><p>Level 80 is just an unimaginative method to keep the 24/7ers at it and those who have the luck to be in a working hardcore raidcom/guild.</p><p>It would also make the most expensive items in Norrath useless: Masters level 57-60 (and the level-depending ancient teachings).</p>

Nocifer Deathblade
05-10-2007, 12:37 PM
<p>Nevermind..</p>

Antiops
05-10-2007, 12:48 PM
<p>i was just thinking, please note i have been out of the game for some time lately, what about raid zones scaling.....</p><p>i mean the city raids scale to lvl no? why cant KOS and EOF raid zones have 2 versions? a lvl70 one and a lvl80 one..this way they would just have to add a new loot table, a lvl80 one to be precise, and instead of having only 4 raid zones at lvl80 u get all of KOS's & EOF's plus the new 4.</p><p>IMO that would solve the issue of not enough raid zones at max lvl, i understand it still makes ur current gear and spells outdated but that's gonna happen anyway if they raise the lvl.</p><p>well as i said i was just thinking...maybe i shouldn't <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Galithdor
05-10-2007, 12:50 PM
Well it seem that there is only 1 zone for low levels...so it will eb high level paradise anyways lol

ZexisStryfe
05-10-2007, 02:10 PM
You know, they only announced the xpack like yesterday and am already sick of the complaining. You can't go to a single thread about Kunark without hearing it time and again. Two weeks ago everyone was complaining that there was nothing to do for those at level 70, now there is... get to 80. Honestly, people forget that the point of the game is to enjoy the journey to the top, as well as your time there. It isn't- <blockquote>"0MG g0tz 2 b lvl 70!!!1! G0tz 2 haev l33t stuffz! lvl 80 suxx0rs!!!!1!!!one one one". </blockquote>Whether or not you feel like you are coming off as elitist [I cannot control my vocabulary], you are. You think the progression of the game should just stop because you want it to. It was stated from day 1 that the game was made for a level cap of 150-200. At first they stated that they would even increase it every expansion, then later changed that. I don't understand the huge outroar at the idea of a level increase, like it wasn't expected or something. Seriously, if you don't like it, go play WoW, where you can hit lvl 70 in less han a month... and then complain there that there is nothing for you to do.

Aethane
05-10-2007, 02:19 PM
<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>We need level 80. I'm getting tired of using the same skills over and over again. Some new abilities would be welcomed.</blockquote>But the skills wont be new, maybe 1 new one, thats about it. All level cap increases give you is rehashed buffed up versions of your old skills, nothing new. It's just a bigger number over your head. It doesnt make content more fun or challenging, the class plays the same. I for one would prefer alot more time spent on content and give us real progression like kos and eof do. As it stand my guild is ready to start EoF but likely wont get much done there due to this expansion coming out and the content being outdated and replaced in RoK. We are losing two expansions worth of content to gain one all in the name of a level cap increase. Trust me, when levels caps go up KoS and EoF zones will become ghost towns just like what happened to the old world when DoF came out and just like what happened to DoF when KoS came out. Right now the world is a very large one, lots to do in tier 7. Tier 8 will not have as many options. I want a wider selection of content not less.

Aethane
05-10-2007, 02:22 PM
<cite>ZexisStryfe wrote:</cite><blockquote>You know, they only announced the xpack like yesterday and am already sick of the complaining. You can't go to a single thread about Kunark without hearing it time and again. Two weeks ago everyone was complaining that there was nothing to do for those at level 70, now there is... get to 80. Honestly, people forget that the point of the game is to enjoy the journey to the top, as well as your time there. It isn't- <blockquote>"0MG g0tz 2 b lvl 70!!!1! G0tz 2 haev l33t stuffz! lvl 80 suxx0rs!!!!1!!!one one one". </blockquote>Whether or not you feel like you are coming off as elitist [I cannot control my vocabulary], you are. You think the progression of the game should just stop because you want it to. It was stated from day 1 that the game was made for a level cap of 150-200. At first they stated that they would even increase it every expansion, then later changed that. I don't understand the huge outroar at the idea of a level increase, like it wasn't expected or something. Seriously, if you don't like it, go play WoW, where you can hit lvl 70 in less han a month... and then complain there that there is nothing for you to do.</blockquote> it will take a week or 2 to hit 80, not much of a journey. The journey is the content not the grind. I wish more people could appreciate the quest story lines and the exploration and feeling of accomplishment from defeating difficult encounters. Leveling is a short grind and that's all it is. No new spells, just changed names and beefier, they do the same things your old ones did.

ZexisStryfe
05-10-2007, 02:28 PM
<p>You hit the nail on the head, Aeth.  people are in such a rush to hit the top level they ignore everything that "slows them down". The journey is marvelling at scenery, learning the lore, and doing the quests, not just that short grind. There is going to be an entire new continent of new things to explore. It isn't a race to 80.</p>

denboj
05-10-2007, 02:31 PM
<p>Ppl in my guild are allready starting to talk about how progressing further in tier 7 is absolutely pointless becuase of the +10 lvl cap increase in kunark. Personally i think that there should never have been +10 lvl cap increases. I had the idea that the developers simply wanted the game to catch up on eq1 lvl cap as fast as possible. Also the +10 lvl cap increase is the easyest way to correct mistakes in various mechanics. However at this point the game has grown and the wild changes isnt as needed anymore as they were after the horrible launch. </p><p> When eq1 released omens of war and increased the lvl cap from 65 to 70, the expansion had the reverse effect it should have had. Instead of getting a fealing that the game was made bigger the players had the impression that the game was made smaller. There were only 2-3 xp zones worth doing comming from endless pop and god xp zones and there were only very limited raid content worth doing ocmming from tons of options. </p><p>So all in all. Please reconsider and avoid the lvl increase. If it cant be avoided then at least only make it +5 lvls and not +10. The gab in a 10 lvl increase is simply to big. </p>

Aethane
05-10-2007, 02:34 PM
<cite>ZexisStryfe wrote:</cite><blockquote>You know, they only announced the xpack like yesterday and am already sick of the complaining. You can't go to a single thread about Kunark without hearing it time and again. Two weeks ago everyone was complaining that there was nothing to do for those at level 70, now there is... get to 80. Honestly, people forget that the point of the game is to enjoy the journey to the top, as well as your time there. It isn't- <blockquote>"0MG g0tz 2 b lvl 70!!!1! G0tz 2 haev l33t stuffz! lvl 80 suxx0rs!!!!1!!!one one one". </blockquote>Whether or not you feel like you are coming off as elitist [I cannot control my vocabulary], you are. You think the progression of the game should just stop because you want it to. It was stated from day 1 that the game was made for a level cap of 150-200. At first they stated that they would even increase it every expansion, then later changed that. I don't understand the huge outroar at the idea of a level increase, like it wasn't expected or something. Seriously, if you don't like it, go play WoW, where you can hit lvl 70 in less han a month... and then complain there that there is nothing for you to do.</blockquote><p> the pace at which they increase level caps leaves many behind. it is too fast. It was only march of 2006 when many people were beating the KoS raid content, look at the time of the item discoveries from those zones. That is barely over a year ago. Since then they added Eof, Most people have barely touched those raid zones. And here we are with a level cap increase on the horizon that will make EoF content not even worth doing because the gear will likely pale to legendary items in the expansion, so why bother? Now if the cap stayed the same people would still want to do EoF zones because they would be necessary to progress to RoK content. That isnt elitist those are the reasons eq1 lost so many players. See in eq1 even tho old content was easier with level cap increases the items werent going to become grey to you or the monsters you fought, if the item had 50 ac it still was gonna have 50 ac against anything you fought. In eq2 level cap increases make your gear worthless. Instead of looking forward to finding better items from challenging content you have to throw them away in favor of mastercrafted because it will mitigate better due to item levels.</p><p>Level cap increases and item greying is why old content dies and people stop doing it. Why bother when you will be better served with the new tier of mastercrafted armor? With this system every time they raise the cap and add an expansion the game gets smaller not bigger.</p><p>In EQ1 many still raided nagafen when the cap was 60 even though he was only lvl 52, why? cause he dropped items that were still worth using. People would stop leveling at 52 just to have a shot at those items that were still useful at 60. We have that again in eq2 with KoS and EoF and its FUN! Increase the cap and the game dies a whole lot, items grey and thats why it sucks. Change that mechanic and i would be all for it. </p>

Ultimatum
05-10-2007, 02:34 PM
I don't understand the big deal here.  If you don't want to grind out more levels, lock your adventure XP and [I cannot control my vocabulary].  I was one of the (admittedly few) people that was dissapointed that there was no level increase with EoF.  The game is meant to support up to level 150-200 as has been stated before, and staying at 70 for THREE expansions would be a TERRIBLE idea.  Yeah, KoS and EoF are fun as hell, but I want new challenges, new levels, and new beefy mobs to kill.  I don't care about having to get new masters, that comes with the territory...the cap increased from 50-60 and 60-70 and everyone lived and obtained new masters...same will happen here.  So your gear gets a bit dated, run new T8 instances and get new gear *gasp* what a concept!  T7 fabled is still going to be better than a lot of T8 gear I'm sure, so its not like the second the expansion comes out everyone needs new gear, it's called progression.  I for one thing the cap increase to 80 is long overdue and I welcome it with open arms.  Yeah, the spells are the same as 14 levels before...nothing new, its been like that the last 2 cap increases.  I'm just not sure if I'm rooting for the 52, 55, 58 AT spells to get upgrades at 72, 75, 78, or if I'd rather see all new spells and have the T6 ones scale.  Either way, bring on the grind! Edit:  Also, to clarify on the whole "leaving content behind" thing, that's why there is a feature known as "Mentoring".  Believe me, I miss old T5 content more than any of you will miss T7 content...I effin LOVED the short zones like Meeting of the Minds, Tremblar, King Zalak, Archlich, etc.  Those made for fun nights, not always getting masters and getting surprised when good items finally dropped...now every named drops at least a legendary, and the loot tables hold an average of 4-5 per named (save for class gear) where old world T5 named had 10+ items on their loot tables and you would only see a master from a zone every few days...Spirits of the Lost is still my favorite zone, and even though the gear is useless, I'll still never pass up an opportunity to mentor and run that zone any time just because it was fun times, not to mention you can gear up alts or sell items on the broker for coin.  Bottom line is, if you feel you are going to miss T7 content with the cap increase, either don't level, or mentor and run the zones anyway...not a big deal. Also, the 5 level increase is probably never going to happen in EQ2 since they have the whole "tier" system, so hoping for that is only going to leave you dissapointed.  Also, as far as I've read, it's pretty much set in stone at this point that all levels (Tradeskill, adventure, and guild) are going to hit 80 and increase 10 levels at the same time so no more having your guild level cap 10 below your adventure level.  As long as they actually include good rewards at LAUNCH this time, I have no problem with that either...I just hope people don't find some stupid way to hit GL80 in 15 mins liek they did with KoS.

Aethane
05-10-2007, 02:35 PM
<cite>denboj wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Ppl in my guild are allready starting to talk about how progressing further in tier 7 is absolutely pointless becuase of the +10 lvl cap increase in kunark. Personally i think that there should never have been +10 lvl cap increases. I had the idea that the developers simply wanted the game to catch up on eq1 lvl cap as fast as possible. Also the +10 lvl cap increase is the easyest way to correct mistakes in various mechanics. However at this point the game has grown and the wild changes isnt as needed anymore as they were after the horrible launch. </p><p> When eq1 released omens of war and increased the lvl cap from 65 to 70, the expansion had the reverse effect it should have had. Instead of getting a fealing that the game was made bigger the players had the impression that the game was made smaller. There were only 2-3 xp zones worth doing comming from endless pop and god xp zones and there were only very limited raid content worth doing ocmming from tons of options. </p><p>So all in all. Please reconsider and avoid the lvl increase. If it cant be avoided then at least only make it +5 lvls and not +10. The gab in a 10 lvl increase is simply to big. </p></blockquote>I 100% agree. exactly my point.

ZexisStryfe
05-10-2007, 02:47 PM
<cite>Aethane wrote:</cite><blockquote>the pace at which they increase level caps leaves many behind. it is too fast. It was only march of 2006 when many people were beating the KoS raid content, look at the time of the item discoveries from those zones. That is barely over a year ago. Since then they added Eof, Most people have barely touched those raid zones. And here we are with a level cap increase on the horizon that will make EoF content not even worth doing because the gear will likely pale to legendary items in the expansion, so why bother? Now if the cap stayed the same people would still want to do EoF zones because they would be necessary to progress to RoK content. That isnt elitist those are the reasons eq1 lost so many players. See in eq1 even tho old content was easier with level cap increases the items werent going to become grey to you or the monsters you fought, if the item had 50 ac it still was gonna have 50 ac against anything you fought. In eq2 level cap increases make your gear worthless. Instead of looking forward to finding better items from challenging content you have to throw them away in favor of mastercrafted because it will mitigate better due to item levels. <p>Level cap increases and item greying is why old content dies and people stop doing it. Why bother when you will be better served with the new tier of mastercrafted armor? With this system every time they raise the cap and add an expansion the game gets smaller not bigger.</p><p>In EQ1 many still raided nagafen when the cap was 60 even though he was only lvl 52, why? cause he dropped items that were still worth using. People would stop leveling at 52 just to have a shot at those items that were still useful at 60. We have that again in eq2 with KoS and EoF and its FUN! Increase the cap and the game dies a whole lot, items grey and thats why it sucks. Change that mechanic and i would be all for it. </p></blockquote>The 10 level a year pace is not leaving anybody behind. I have several characters... the are all in the 50s. I have no character over 60 atm. (yeah, I am a solo player, so what ;op ) Do I feel left behind? Not at all. Know why? Cause I am not racing through content. You said it yourself. People need to experience the storyline and the quests. I do that. Am I mad because they are raising the XP cap? Nope... because I know I will eventually get there. Would I be mad if RoK was 100% T7 raid? Hell yeah! Generally speaking, I don't encounter raid material. An expansion including just that material would be wasted on me. Unfortunately for the raiders, there are many more like me (casual players) than there are of you. this was problem #1 with EQ1 in the post PoP era, and it is why they began losing players.

Aethane
05-10-2007, 02:49 PM
<p>Mark my words, if the cap increases we will lsoe even more players. It will look very daunting to any new player to see the cap raised. This is what killed eq1 and it will be even worse in eq2 due to item greying. In eq1 the items were still worth having, in eq2 people will just flat out skip the content and buy mastercrafted so they can do the new content. That is why this is a BAD idea. The world is going to get smaller, population more spread out, less grouping opportunities, less to do overall and much longer waits to find anything to do.</p><p>I don't have to prove it, this is what has happened every single time they raised the cap. It isnt healthy for the game.</p>

Aethane
05-10-2007, 02:57 PM
<cite>ZexisStryfe wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aethane wrote:</cite><blockquote>the pace at which they increase level caps leaves many behind. it is too fast. It was only march of 2006 when many people were beating the KoS raid content, look at the time of the item discoveries from those zones. That is barely over a year ago. Since then they added Eof, Most people have barely touched those raid zones. And here we are with a level cap increase on the horizon that will make EoF content not even worth doing because the gear will likely pale to legendary items in the expansion, so why bother? Now if the cap stayed the same people would still want to do EoF zones because they would be necessary to progress to RoK content. That isnt elitist those are the reasons eq1 lost so many players. See in eq1 even tho old content was easier with level cap increases the items werent going to become grey to you or the monsters you fought, if the item had 50 ac it still was gonna have 50 ac against anything you fought. In eq2 level cap increases make your gear worthless. Instead of looking forward to finding better items from challenging content you have to throw them away in favor of mastercrafted because it will mitigate better due to item levels. <p>Level cap increases and item greying is why old content dies and people stop doing it. Why bother when you will be better served with the new tier of mastercrafted armor? With this system every time they raise the cap and add an expansion the game gets smaller not bigger.</p><p>In EQ1 many still raided nagafen when the cap was 60 even though he was only lvl 52, why? cause he dropped items that were still worth using. People would stop leveling at 52 just to have a shot at those items that were still useful at 60. We have that again in eq2 with KoS and EoF and its FUN! Increase the cap and the game dies a whole lot, items grey and thats why it sucks. Change that mechanic and i would be all for it. </p></blockquote>The 10 level a year pace is not leaving anybody behind. I have several characters... the are all in the 50s. I have no character over 60 atm. (yeah, I am a solo player, so what ;op ) Do I feel left behind? Not at all. Know why? Cause I am not racing through content. You said it yourself. People need to experience the storyline and the quests. I do that. Am I mad because they are raising the XP cap? Nope... because I know I will eventually get there. Would I be mad if RoK was 100% T7 raid? Hell yeah! Generally speaking, I don't encounter raid material. An expansion including just that material would be wasted on me. Unfortunately for the raiders, there are many more like me (casual players) than there are of you. this was problem #1 with EQ1 in the post PoP era, and it is why they began losing players. </blockquote><p>I'm casual, i think you think raiders are like they were in eq1, i spend two evenings a week, about 8 hours total raiding. 4 hours each night, twice a week. Wouldn't call that hardcore. You obviouslyt play just as much as i do having that many characters in those level ranges. I play 1 character that is 70 without a single alt over 20. Not knocking you for not leveling to 70 but i sure dont play anymore than you do, i just enjoy playing my Guardian alot.</p><p>By not ever raiding you are missing out on more content than i am. I do all the heroic stuff too, i just refuse to limit myself. Raiding isnt that time consuming in eq2. I don't like missing content, i paid for it and i want to experience it all. Level cap increases cause a great many of us to not get to see it all because it becomes undesireable content to many. Folks that raid seldom raid zones that will not progress their characters. You will very rarely see me or many other 70s raiding tier 5 content. That's a shame really but thats all due to item greying. Level cap increases make the world smaller not bigger. For someone that enjoys taking your time i am surprised you accept the idea of so much content being denied to you. When you get there as you say, nobody will be doing much of the content that is available because they moved on, got some mastercrafted and left the old world behind. </p>

Aethane
05-10-2007, 03:00 PM
<cite>ZexisStryfe wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aethane wrote:</cite><blockquote>the pace at which they increase level caps leaves many behind. it is too fast. It was only march of 2006 when many people were beating the KoS raid content, look at the time of the item discoveries from those zones. That is barely over a year ago. Since then they added Eof, Most people have barely touched those raid zones. And here we are with a level cap increase on the horizon that will make EoF content not even worth doing because the gear will likely pale to legendary items in the expansion, so why bother? Now if the cap stayed the same people would still want to do EoF zones because they would be necessary to progress to RoK content. That isnt elitist those are the reasons eq1 lost so many players. See in eq1 even tho old content was easier with level cap increases the items werent going to become grey to you or the monsters you fought, if the item had 50 ac it still was gonna have 50 ac against anything you fought. In eq2 level cap increases make your gear worthless. Instead of looking forward to finding better items from challenging content you have to throw them away in favor of mastercrafted because it will mitigate better due to item levels. <p>Level cap increases and item greying is why old content dies and people stop doing it. Why bother when you will be better served with the new tier of mastercrafted armor? With this system every time they raise the cap and add an expansion the game gets smaller not bigger.</p><p>In EQ1 many still raided nagafen when the cap was 60 even though he was only lvl 52, why? cause he dropped items that were still worth using. People would stop leveling at 52 just to have a shot at those items that were still useful at 60. We have that again in eq2 with KoS and EoF and its FUN! Increase the cap and the game dies a whole lot, items grey and thats why it sucks. Change that mechanic and i would be all for it. </p></blockquote>The 10 level a year pace is not leaving anybody behind. I have several characters... the are all in the 50s. I have no character over 60 atm. (yeah, I am a solo player, so what ;op ) Do I feel left behind? Not at all. Know why? Cause I am not racing through content. You said it yourself. People need to experience the storyline and the quests. I do that. Am I mad because they are raising the XP cap? Nope... because I know I will eventually get there. Would I be mad if RoK was 100% T7 raid? Hell yeah! Generally speaking, I don't encounter raid material. An expansion including just that material would be wasted on me. Unfortunately for the raiders, there are many more like me (casual players) than there are of you. this was problem #1 with EQ1 in the post PoP era, and it is why they began losing players. </blockquote>If that were true i wonder why when i try to find groups to mentor and do the new lower end content i see maybe 20 players in tier 5 and 6 online at any time. Face it, people skip content when it isnt worth doing anymore. level cap increases and item greying causes that.

ZexisStryfe
05-10-2007, 03:10 PM
<p>I never said i don't do raids. I am a big fan of complex quests, and by the nature of some of them, they are necessary. I also don't equate the current raid climate in EQ2 to the post PoP climate in EQ1. What i do feel is that if you keep the level cap the same, and introduce mostly raid content, you will be pushing the population more and more into that direction. There is nothing wrong with things greying out. They do it in EQ1 as well.  I do greyed out quests, and kill greyed out monsters all the time. Doesn't bother me. I also have absolutely no problem finding people to help out with the raid content I do need. Perhaps I am just in a good guild, one willing to use that wonderful mentor button. </p><p>On a side note however, I do believe that with a jump to lvl 80 they should expand out the grey window from 10 levels to 13 or 15 levels, and that would help this issue.</p>

Ultimatum
05-10-2007, 03:13 PM
<cite>Aethane wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Mark my words, if the cap increases we will lsoe even more players. It will look very daunting to any new player to see the cap raised. This is what killed eq1 and it will be even worse in eq2 due to item greying. In eq1 the items were still worth having, in eq2 people will just flat out skip the content and buy mastercrafted so they can do the new content. That is why this is a BAD idea. The world is going to get smaller, population more spread out, less grouping opportunities, less to do overall and much longer waits to find anything to do.</p><p>I don't have to prove it, this is what has happened every single time they raised the cap. It isnt healthy for the game.</p></blockquote>And mark mine, if they DON'T increase the level cap, they will lose even more players.  Bottom line is, the cap looks to be increasing reguardless, so might as well stop [Removed for Content]. I'll humor you though...explain to me how exactly a level cap increase from 70-80 is going to be that much more daunting to a new player?  there likely won't be another cap increase for a year, giving even the most casual players time to catch up.  Not to mention, the casual players are likely the majority of people who go through enjoying the content and should be least bothered by a cap increase since they aren't starting to play just to grind to 80.  The only people a cap increase is going to hurt are people stuck against having to get new gear and masters, which I just don't understand.  Are you people THAT entertained by running Unrest, Nek 3, Obelisk, and the 2-3 other T7 instances a night, that grinding to 80 and getting to run all new instances a night turns you off?  I mean what exactly is it you are doing at 70 that isn't repetitive and boring by now anyway?  I for one am to the point that if it weren't for the added aspect of PvP and the way every night is different depending who is out to fight I'd have quit long ago.  I've been long tired of running the same instances every night and the only other thing keeping me in the game is raiding a few nights a week for gear to benefit me in PvP, which I'm quite frankly getting bored with as well.  Increasing the cap to 80 will eventually provide the same repetitive content, yes, but for the first few months, it will be new and exciting, which is what I look forward to.   Even at 70 there is so much wasted content that I fail to see how another increase in levels is any different.  Suck it up and enjoy the new stuff or lock yourself at 70 and continue running the exact same instances you've been doin every night for the past 6-12 months.  Which ever you choose, quit making these lame threads because the cap is getting increased anyway, no point in [Removed for Content] about it.

Polywogus
05-10-2007, 03:18 PM
I started playing EQ2 after a long time in EQLive. Hearing that upping the levels makes it too hard to catch up is flabbergasting (talking about casual play). I'm a casual player; I could play way more than I do, but that's beside the point. Even w/ combat XP turned off, this game is rather fast paced. More content, expansions, & level increases all means that there will be more for me to do; places to explore, quests (even FedEx type), lore, etc. Thinking about being 'capped' @ a certain level makes me think of why I left my short-lived gaming in WoW. I finished everything I could, rolled an alt, did it all again, & was bored. I'd never want that to happen in EQ2. From a raiding standpoint, I'd find getting all new masters, armour, & events to each be a challenge, big or small, but I've less experience there, so I'll just leave it @ that.

Ultimatum
05-10-2007, 03:27 PM
<cite>Polywogus wrote:</cite><blockquote>I started playing EQ2 after a long time in EQLive. Hearing that upping the levels makes it too hard to catch up is flabbergasting (talking about casual play). I'm a casual player; I could play way more than I do, but that's beside the point. Even w/ combat XP turned off, this game is rather fast paced. More content, expansions, & level increases all means that there will be more for me to do; places to explore, quests (even FedEx type), lore, etc. Thinking about being 'capped' @ a certain level makes me think of why I left my short-lived gaming in WoW. I finished everything I could, rolled an alt, did it all again, & was bored. I'd never want that to happen in EQ2. From a raiding standpoint, I'd find getting all new masters, armour, & events to each be a challenge, big or small, but I've less experience there, so I'll just leave it @ that.</blockquote>^^ 2 thumbs up to this guy <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Exactly my mentality Polywogus...level increase = more to do.  When EoF came out they might as well have increased the cap seeing how EoF gear is superior to KoS gear almost exclusively...even the collection quest gear from EoF is far more useful than KoS raid fabled when it comes to PvP what with resists being king over stats.  I still fail to see how going from 70-80 and getting new gear is any different than going from KoS-EoF and getting new gear?  Only difference is there is no need for new masters which is lame in itself because it cheapens the value of those masters since there is basically twice the content to get the same masters from instead of a new tier of content to get new masters.  Eh, I've beaten this horse to death though, I'm done arguing <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Novusod
05-10-2007, 03:30 PM
I choose to post in these "lame" threads because I find it more productive than logging into the game right now. Seriously whats the point in playing my main right now? There is not one one goal, not one thing I could be doing right now that would mean anything in a post lvl80 world. This announcement has killed the game for me. Our only hope is that the silent majority that built their toons up through KoS and EoF raise such an uproar that they roll back the level cap increase.

Aethane
05-10-2007, 03:32 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><cite>Aethane wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Mark my words, if the cap increases we will lsoe even more players. It will look very daunting to any new player to see the cap raised. This is what killed eq1 and it will be even worse in eq2 due to item greying. In eq1 the items were still worth having, in eq2 people will just flat out skip the content and buy mastercrafted so they can do the new content. That is why this is a BAD idea. The world is going to get smaller, population more spread out, less grouping opportunities, less to do overall and much longer waits to find anything to do.</p><p>I don't have to prove it, this is what has happened every single time they raised the cap. It isnt healthy for the game.</p></blockquote>And mark mine, if they DON'T increase the level cap, they will lose even more players.  Bottom line is, the cap looks to be increasing reguardless, so might as well stop [I cannot control my vocabulary]. I'll humor you though...explain to me how exactly a level cap increase from 70-80 is going to be that much more daunting to a new player?  there likely won't be another cap increase for a year, giving even the most casual players time to catch up.  Not to mention, the casual players are likely the majority of people who go through enjoying the content and should be least bothered by a cap increase since they aren't starting to play just to grind to 80.  The only people a cap increase is going to hurt are people stuck against having to get new gear and masters, which I just don't understand.  Are you people THAT entertained by running Unrest, Nek 3, Obelisk, and the 2-3 other T7 instances a night, that grinding to 80 and getting to run all new instances a night turns you off?  I mean what exactly is it you are doing at 70 that isn't repetitive and boring by now anyway?  I for one am to the point that if it weren't for the added aspect of PvP and the way every night is different depending who is out to fight I'd have quit long ago.  I've been long tired of running the same instances every night and the only other thing keeping me in the game is raiding a few nights a week for gear to benefit me in PvP, which I'm quite frankly getting bored with as well.  Increasing the cap to 80 will eventually provide the same repetitive content, yes, but for the first few months, it will be new and exciting, which is what I look forward to.   Even at 70 there is so much wasted content that I fail to see how another increase in levels is any different.  Suck it up and enjoy the new stuff or lock yourself at 70 and continue running the exact same instances you've been doin every night for the past 6-12 months.  Which ever you choose, quit making these lame threads because the cap is getting increased anyway, no point in [I cannot control my vocabulary] about it. </blockquote><p>Not increasing the cap and ADDING content makes it so you arent running the same zones every single night. Lvel cap increase isn't required. Increasing the cap however WILL reduce your selection by a metric ton. And tell me, why should us folks that invested alot of time in getting fabled and such, replace all that with mastercrafted heroic instance items? Just so you can have a bigger number by your name? Heroic content isnt challenging in the least.Get your level and do it, if you have the right group makeup and know your class you do it without much sweat.</p><p>I bet a ton you havent done near as many quests as i have. I want more quests, more zones. I dont need more stinking levels to enjoy those things. I certainly dont want less content to choose from. I like having folks in my guild that while they may be my level are working in KoS still and i like helping them, that content is still fun. And since i rarely am in KoS zones its a nice break from the same instances every night in EoF. Raid wise? My guild is just starting EoF. Plenty to do, but it is making many of us think that perhaps it isnt worth bothering with now since the cap is gonna go up anyway. The items will grey, likely be surpasses by heroic instance gear that is far easier to get. What you want isnt progression at all, its regression with less content to choose from to boot. </p><p>Why would a new player want to grind to 80 just to play the expansion then by that time a new expansion comes out and they dont get to do the one they worked so hard to get to? I can't beleive you cannnot see that. It has happened every single time they raised the cap. EoF brought many players backs because they DIDNT raise the cap and it gave them hope they could catch up and try the new stuff.</p><p>There was a need for this when the game needed so much revamped but not now. If having a bigger number next to your name after a two week grind makes you feel progressed and accomplished that's pretty sad. Not raising the cap doesnt force you to go to EoF or KoS, you could still choose to hang out in RoK all day everyday, but that is all you will have to choose from if they do raise it. </p>

Aethane
05-10-2007, 03:36 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><cite>Polywogus wrote:</cite><blockquote>I started playing EQ2 after a long time in EQLive. Hearing that upping the levels makes it too hard to catch up is flabbergasting (talking about casual play). I'm a casual player; I could play way more than I do, but that's beside the point. Even w/ combat XP turned off, this game is rather fast paced. More content, expansions, & level increases all means that there will be more for me to do; places to explore, quests (even FedEx type), lore, etc. Thinking about being 'capped' @ a certain level makes me think of why I left my short-lived gaming in WoW. I finished everything I could, rolled an alt, did it all again, & was bored. I'd never want that to happen in EQ2. From a raiding standpoint, I'd find getting all new masters, armour, & events to each be a challenge, big or small, but I've less experience there, so I'll just leave it @ that.</blockquote>^^ 2 thumbs up to this guy <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Exactly my mentality Polywogus...level increase = more to do.  When EoF came out they might as well have increased the cap seeing how EoF gear is superior to KoS gear almost exclusively...even the collection quest gear from EoF is far more useful than KoS raid fabled when it comes to PvP what with resists being king over stats.  I still fail to see how going from 70-80 and getting new gear is any different than going from KoS-EoF and getting new gear?  Only difference is there is no need for new masters which is lame in itself because it cheapens the value of those masters since there is basically twice the content to get the same masters from instead of a new tier of content to get new masters.  Eh, I've beaten this horse to death though, I'm done arguing <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote>because now we can get eof gear wearing our kos stuff, not fuggin mastercrafted. Raise the cap and your EoF gear will be replaced by crappier stuff that is only better because of its level not the stats or mit numbers. Item greying sucks, KoS tier 7 items dont grey in EoF because its the same tier!

Illmarr
05-10-2007, 03:56 PM
<p>Sounds like the cap never should have been raised from 50 is what people want. Thankfully that didn't happen. There have been 2 raises already. Did all you people think the cap would never be raised again? Oh no! Raising the cap will trivialize older content! Once a guild had beaten Quarm in Plane of Time, how often did they go back and farm NToV? Once they beat Mata Muram how often did they go farm Quarm? It's the nature of open-ended games to trivialize older content, and require people that want to keep up to gear up again. From a non-raiding standpoint, once you were in all your BoT Ornate gear, did you go exp in Lower Guk? There is no end to Everquest. You cannot "win" because hopefully there will always be a new raid to conquor or a new level to achieve. </p>

Illmarr
05-10-2007, 04:16 PM
<cite>Aethane wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><cite>Polywogus wrote:</cite><blockquote>I started playing EQ2 after a long time in EQLive. Hearing that upping the levels makes it too hard to catch up is flabbergasting (talking about casual play). I'm a casual player; I could play way more than I do, but that's beside the point. Even w/ combat XP turned off, this game is rather fast paced. More content, expansions, & level increases all means that there will be more for me to do; places to explore, quests (even FedEx type), lore, etc. Thinking about being 'capped' @ a certain level makes me think of why I left my short-lived gaming in WoW. I finished everything I could, rolled an alt, did it all again, & was bored. I'd never want that to happen in EQ2. From a raiding standpoint, I'd find getting all new masters, armour, & events to each be a challenge, big or small, but I've less experience there, so I'll just leave it @ that.</blockquote>^^ 2 thumbs up to this guy <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Exactly my mentality Polywogus...level increase = more to do.  When EoF came out they might as well have increased the cap seeing how EoF gear is superior to KoS gear almost exclusively...even the collection quest gear from EoF is far more useful than KoS raid fabled when it comes to PvP what with resists being king over stats.  I still fail to see how going from 70-80 and getting new gear is any different than going from KoS-EoF and getting new gear?  Only difference is there is no need for new masters which is lame in itself because it cheapens the value of those masters since there is basically twice the content to get the same masters from instead of a new tier of content to get new masters.  Eh, I've beaten this horse to death though, I'm done arguing <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote>because now we can get eof gear wearing our kos stuff, not fuggin mastercrafted. Raise the cap and your EoF gear will be replaced by crappier stuff that is only better because of its level not the stats or mit numbers. Item greying sucks, KoS tier 7 items dont grey in EoF because its the same tier! </blockquote>Greying items are a bummer, but it comes with the territory. Back during PoP in EQ1 when level cap raised from 60-65 there was a problem because that wound up greying out a lot of exp spots. Sony adjusted the exp range downward to open up more stuff to level from. A suggestion would be to do the same here. With regard to gear, drop the range so that level 65+ gear is not grey to level 80 characters.

otlg
05-10-2007, 04:24 PM
<p>Let me toss my support behind a 5 level increase (although now that Sony has said 10 levels it's pretty much a done deal)... </p><p>Simply making 65 green at 80 won't solve the problem anyway, because of how mitigation, etc. works.  If you raid you'll need to seriously consider switching to t8 legendary and all your t7 stuff that you worked so hard for will be worthless (unless Sony is REALLY smart and puts in a bunch of T7.5 raid zones... HINT HINT HINT)..</p><p>If Sony puts in T7.5 raid zones, then suddenly a lot of the problem goes away.  But man oh man will I be [Removed for Content] if I get my full class fabled set and then have to upgrade it a week later to some legendary T8 instance crap... I won't quit over it, but I won't be happy either... </p><p>So consider this a vote for either a lvl 75 cap or a bunch of lvl 75 raid zones (read lvl 79-80 mobs).  Either will accomplish the end goal <b>I</b> have, which is to smoothly replace what I have now with like kind and quality in T8 without having to revert back to a bunch of crap... </p>

Ravaan
05-10-2007, 04:34 PM
<cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote>I choose to post in these "lame" threads because I find it more productive than logging into the game right now. Seriously whats the point in playing my main right now? There is not one one goal, not one thing I could be doing right now that would mean anything in a post lvl80 world. This announcement has killed the game for me. Our only hope is that the silent majority that built their toons up through KoS and EoF raise such an uproar that they roll back the level cap increase. </blockquote><p> exactly ... i am in the same boat. why should i log in? my armor is going to be worthless, any upgrades i get will be worthless. my Master/adept 3 spells will be worthless when this expac comes out. </p><p>I have people in my guild talking the same thing, why should they raid when anything they get will be worthless? just play some alts till the expac comes out and then start on thier mains. look at what happened with WoW and thier items when the level cap was raised ... all thier "purples" (think fabled) were crap compared to "greens" (think treasured) in the new expac.</p><p>really the only reason i have to log in right now is to teach my gf how the basics of MMos so we can move on to something together.</p>

Vorlak
05-10-2007, 04:37 PM
lets pray to god they dont screw with the combat system yet again!

Vorlak
05-10-2007, 04:49 PM
Actully guys they are raising the level cap 9 levels not 10. (you are already 70, and 80 - 71 = 9). They really should consider raising the level cap a considerable amount. Along with making an abundant source of end game content, because if they dont we will be back here by jan 1st with the same post.

Catsy
05-10-2007, 04:59 PM
<cite>Vorlak wrote:</cite><blockquote>Actully guys they are raising the level cap 9 levels not 10. (you are already 70, and 80 - 71 = 9). </blockquote> Not only is this nitpick inane, it's also wrong. The level cap is currently 70--the highest level that a character can achieve is 70. Not 71, 70. The new level cap is 80--as in, the highest level that a character can achieve will be 80. Count with me, if you will, the numbers that come after 70. Keep counting until you reach 80. Then tell me how many numbers you counted. I'll wait. Now, back to waiting for someone to provide a cogent argument for how gear progression can continue without raising the level cap.

Maroger
05-10-2007, 05:13 PM
<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>We need level 80. I'm getting tired of using the same skills over and over again. Some new abilities would be welcomed.</blockquote><p>I doubt if you are any Pouty Lee so maybe you could work to improve the skills you have to become as good as she is. My ideal Monk is Pouty -- I think the best Monk player in all the EQ games.  </p><p>So I don't think we need level 80 - just to satisfy the raiders. </p>

Wardyn
05-10-2007, 05:40 PM
<p>Level 80. Awesome. Thank you.</p><p> Of course level 80 was needed. Desperately. There is a huge bottleneck at 70. With expansions now only coming once a year, a +10 level increase per expansion should now be expected. Most sub 30 areas are nearly vacant these days. It's almost sad. Why add more superfluous content? We pay to achieve 70 for a reason. To have our characters primed to go higher and farther. Not to cease playing them in order to start over and do it all again. That may be fun for some, however, it's mind numbingly dull for many. If you do enjoy starting over, well, there is already plenty of content for you.</p><p> Truthfully, levels 1-70 are covered very well. The only thing that I think could use some improvement in teir 6 harvesting. The finding of roots is a horrible process for many to endure. Of course, the introduction of another teir should help alleviate those frustrations a tad.</p>

lilmohi
05-10-2007, 05:49 PM
<cite>Aethane wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Mark my words, if the cap increases we will lsoe even more players. It will look very daunting to any new player to see the cap raised. This is what killed eq1 and it will be even worse in eq2 due to item greying. In eq1 the items were still worth having, in eq2 people will just flat out skip the content and buy mastercrafted so they can do the new content. That is why this is a BAD idea. The world is going to get smaller, population more spread out, less grouping opportunities, less to do overall and much longer waits to find anything to do.</p><p>I don't have to prove it, this is what has happened every single time they raised the cap. It isnt healthy for the game.</p></blockquote><p> LoL The only reason people continued to kill the lvl 52 dragons in eq1 was because the gear they dropped didn't have level limits and they could twink the snot out of their newbies (or sell it for a small fortune).  The gear itself sucked (except maybe a bag or two) for those lvl 60 or above.  Besides those dragons weren't raided they were duo'd or small grouped.  What killed eq1 with Omens of War was not that the level limit went up (remember it hapened before to great success) but that the content was so hard that you almost had to have raided pop or had 1000 AA's just to do the casual stuff.  And most felt like they had nothing to do unless they were in a raiding guild.</p><p>Personally i have 3 lvl 70's in full legendary gear and nearly full master1's.  Most of my eof legendary is almost as good as KoS Fabled.  That means if they put out the next expansion w/o a level cap increase they won't be able to put any spells upgrades (market is already saturated) and you can't upgrade the legendary armor (or else it will surpas fabled).  The only thing the expansion would have to offer in the way of progression is aa's and maybe an item or two that is situationally better.  I'm not a hardcore player by any means so i'm sure a lot are in the same situation.  </p><p>A good MMO needs multiple levels of progression to keep it interesting, namely spell progression, gear progression, level progression, and AA progression.  If they don't increase the level cap then you can forget about spell progession (except 1 or 2 ancients perhaps), Gear is tied to the item level so you can't have gear progression (just different arrangements of stats/procs), obviously there won't be any more level progression so that just leaves aa progression.  AA's are fun but they aren't enough to keep most people interested.  Either they are too weak and not much point in working for or they are so powerful that unless you have 1,000 aa's you might as well forget about the new content (and you have a repeat of Omens of War).</p>

Makkaio
05-10-2007, 06:07 PM
<cite>lilmohi wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aethane wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Mark my words, if the cap increases we will lsoe even more players. It will look very daunting to any new player to see the cap raised. This is what killed eq1 and it will be even worse in eq2 due to item greying. In eq1 the items were still worth having, in eq2 people will just flat out skip the content and buy mastercrafted so they can do the new content. That is why this is a BAD idea. The world is going to get smaller, population more spread out, less grouping opportunities, less to do overall and much longer waits to find anything to do.</p><p>I don't have to prove it, this is what has happened every single time they raised the cap. It isnt healthy for the game.</p></blockquote><p> LoL The only reason people continued to kill the lvl 52 dragons in eq1 was because the gear they dropped didn't have level limits and they could twink the snot out of their newbies (or sell it for a small fortune).  The gear itself sucked (except maybe a bag or two) for those lvl 60 or above.  Besides those dragons weren't raided they were duo'd or small grouped.  What killed eq1 with Omens of War was not that the level limit went up (remember it hapened before to great success) but that the content was so hard that you almost had to have raided pop or had 1000 AA's just to do the casual stuff.  And most felt like they had nothing to do unless they were in a raiding guild.</p><p>Personally i have 3 lvl 70's in full legendary gear and nearly full master1's.  Most of my eof legendary is almost as good as KoS Fabled.  That means if they put out the next expansion w/o a level cap increase they won't be able to put any spells upgrades (market is already saturated) and you can't upgrade the legendary armor (or else it will surpas fabled).  The only thing the expansion would have to offer in the way of progression is aa's and maybe an item or two that is situationally better.  I'm not a hardcore player by any means so i'm sure a lot are in the same situation.  </p><p>A good MMO needs multiple levels of progression to keep it interesting, namely spell progression, gear progression, level progression, and AA progression.  If they don't increase the level cap then you can forget about spell progession (except 1 or 2 ancients perhaps), Gear is tied to the item level so you can't have gear progression (just different arrangements of stats/procs), obviously there won't be any more level progression so that just leaves aa progression.  AA's are fun but they aren't enough to keep most people interested.  Either they are too weak and not much point in working for or they are so powerful that unless you have 1,000 aa's you might as well forget about the new content (and you have a repeat of Omens of War).</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #0033ff">To address what Aethane wrote at the top.  I think the devs in EQ2 have learned from their mistakes when it comes to their entire audience base.  That's why they are doing expansions that cover the entire span of levels.  EoF could, and practically is, played as a stand alone game.   Rise of Kunark looks like it will be the same concept.</span></p><p><span style="color: #0033ff">I totally agree with most of what you are saying, Lilmohi.  I think another lesson the devs learned between DoF and KoS was that they never want another rough transition between tiers again.  They've used EoF to balance things out even more.  When RoK comes out, I think you'll see that the legendary through mythical gear will still be good for about the first three or four levels until you need to transition to T8 stuff.  Meanwhile, players who are not yet level 70 by the time the RoK comes out will be able to get along fine with mastercrafted items.</span> </p>

Illmarr
05-10-2007, 06:12 PM
<cite>Makkaio wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><span style="color: #0033ff">To address what Aethane wrote at the top.  I think the devs in EQ2 have learned from their mistakes when it comes to their entire audience base.  That's why they are doing expansions that cover the entire span of levels.  EoF could, and practically is, played as a stand alone game.   Rise of Kunark looks like it will be the same concept.</span></p><p><span style="color: #0033ff">I totally agree with most of what you are saying, Lilmohi.  I think another lesson the devs learned between DoF and KoS was that they never want another rough transition between tiers again.  They've used EoF to balance things out even more.  When RoK comes out, I think you'll see that the legendary through mythical gear will still be good for about the first three or four levels until you need to transition to T8 stuff.  Meanwhile, players who are not yet level 70 by the time the RoK comes out will be able to get along fine with mastercrafted items.</span> </p></blockquote> Actually, after looking at the RoK site and reading Scott's interview I come to the conclusion that RoK will have 1-20 starting content, then will shuttle people away from Kunark to level, then return to Kunark for level 65-80 content

lilmohi
05-10-2007, 06:30 PM
<img src="/smilies/0320a00cb4bb5629ab9fc2bc1fcc4e9e.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Makkaio wrote: <blockquote><cite>lilmohi wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aethane wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Mark my words, if the cap increases we will lsoe even more players. It will look very daunting to any new player to see the cap raised. This is what killed eq1 and it will be even worse in eq2 due to item greying. In eq1 the items were still worth having, in eq2 people will just flat out skip the content and buy mastercrafted so they can do the new content. That is why this is a BAD idea. The world is going to get smaller, population more spread out, less grouping opportunities, less to do overall and much longer waits to find anything to do.</p><p>I don't have to prove it, this is what has happened every single time they raised the cap. It isnt healthy for the game.</p></blockquote><p> LoL The only reason people continued to kill the lvl 52 dragons in eq1 was because the gear they dropped didn't have level limits and they could twink the snot out of their newbies (or sell it for a small fortune).  The gear itself sucked (except maybe a bag or two) for those lvl 60 or above.  Besides those dragons weren't raided they were duo'd or small grouped.  What killed eq1 with Omens of War was not that the level limit went up (remember it hapened before to great success) but that the content was so hard that you almost had to have raided pop or had 1000 AA's just to do the casual stuff.  And most felt like they had nothing to do unless they were in a raiding guild.</p><p>Personally i have 3 lvl 70's in full legendary gear and nearly full master1's.  Most of my eof legendary is almost as good as KoS Fabled.  That means if they put out the next expansion w/o a level cap increase they won't be able to put any spells upgrades (market is already saturated) and you can't upgrade the legendary armor (or else it will surpas fabled).  The only thing the expansion would have to offer in the way of progression is aa's and maybe an item or two that is situationally better.  I'm not a hardcore player by any means so i'm sure a lot are in the same situation.  </p><p>A good MMO needs multiple levels of progression to keep it interesting, namely spell progression, gear progression, level progression, and AA progression.  If they don't increase the level cap then you can forget about spell progession (except 1 or 2 ancients perhaps), Gear is tied to the item level so you can't have gear progression (just different arrangements of stats/procs), obviously there won't be any more level progression so that just leaves aa progression.  AA's are fun but they aren't enough to keep most people interested.  Either they are too weak and not much point in working for or they are so powerful that unless you have 1,000 aa's you might as well forget about the new content (and you have a repeat of Omens of War).</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #0033ff">To address what Aethane wrote at the top.  I think the devs in EQ2 have learned from their mistakes when it comes to their entire audience base.  That's why they are doing expansions that cover the entire span of levels.  EoF could, and practically is, played as a stand alone game.   Rise of Kunark looks like it will be the same concept.</span></p><p><span style="color: #0033ff">I totally agree with most of what you are saying, Lilmohi.  I think another lesson the devs learned between DoF and KoS was that they never want another rough transition between tiers again.  They've used EoF to balance things out even more.  When RoK comes out, I think you'll see that the legendary through mythical gear will still be good for about the first three or four levels until you need to transition to T8 stuff.  Meanwhile, players who are not yet level 70 by the time the RoK comes out will be able to get along fine with mastercrafted items.</span> </p></blockquote><p>Agreed, except i think the t7 gear people have is most lvl 69-70 so it will still will not have greyed out by the time you hit 79-80.  I know it's been a lot of time for a lot of you guys but with my last twink i didn't replace any of my lvl 62 Master crafted gear till i hit 70, and even being 8 levels old the gear was still very viable for the top of the t7 content.  Legendary set gear or even fabled will be even better 8 levels later than master crafted.  In fact in the long journey to 70 a lot of my gear turned grey and it was still viable for solo and group play.  The chicken littles who think the second the expansion comes out that all of their gear and spells will be "worthless" make me laugh.   Even with greying out at least a third of your spells will still be on your hotbar post level increase.</p>

LordPazuzu
05-10-2007, 07:18 PM
<p><span style="font-family: andale mono,times"><blockquote>And tell me, why should us folks that invested alot of time in getting fabled and such, replace all that with mastercrafted heroic instance items?</blockquote></span></p><p>Dude, is this your first MMORPG or something?  I hate to break it to you, but that's how this works.  You level up, get great stuff, level up some more and replace the old great stuff.  Expansions come out and sometimes increase the cap, you level up and get yet better stuff. See the pattern?  MMORPGs have no magic level where you are finally "done".  That's the beauty of them.  They are literally the game that never ends(unless the company goes bankrupt).  Going about with the mindset that all the gear you worked so hard to get should be irreplacable or won't eventually get outstripped eventually by higher level gear is just naive.  That naivety is going to make your gaming life miserable if you don't get over it....and that's your own fault, not SOE's.</p><p> For the record, I was against level increase with EoF and felt SOE made the right deceision there.  EoF really did alot to flesh out the game world and to have made some of it T8 content would have spread the content too thin all around.  However I feel that a level increase every other expansion is not unreasonable and should be expected.</p>

Kaalenarc
05-10-2007, 08:01 PM
<p><span style="color: #ffff00"> The DEVS have said -the game can support up to level 200!! 80 is NOT the last level cap raise. Get used to it. Its happening. T8 does NOT make T7 "useless" - it makes it the same as every other tier. </span></p><p><span style="color: #ffff00">I GUARENTEE you that this will not be the last cap raise ever. It simply wont be. SO get past it. New levels = new content = new gear = RETAINED PLAYERBASE.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ffff00">The same people who are complaining now complained about 60, then complained about 70 and now complain abotu 80.. yet they are still here. </span></p>

tgore
05-10-2007, 08:07 PM
<p>While all this sounds great I think the only thing that is needed to make the game better is (smart a** on) to find a way to eliminate the plat spammers permenantly. Some one on LDL last nite suggested that the DEV's should find a way to apply electro shock thru a keyboard for all those spammers ahahahahahah.</p><p>Seriously tho I would like to see an additional 25 AA points per tree and possibly another AA tree for Rok as much as I would like to see another 10 levels to work through.  That being said I am LFG for the DISCO in Old Seb on 13 November <img src="/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> on on LDL server please. man I can't wait to grind Seb again. </p>

Korelen
05-10-2007, 08:40 PM
<cite>tgore wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>While all this sounds great I think the only thing that is needed to make the game better is (smart a** on) to find a way to eliminate the plat spammers permenantly. Some one on LDL last nite suggested that the DEV's should find a way to apply electro shock thru a keyboard for all those spammers ahahahahahah.</p><p>Seriously tho I would like to see an additional 25 AA points per tree and possibly another AA tree for Rok as much as I would like to see another 10 levels to work through.  That being said I am LFG for the DISCO in Old Seb on 13 November <img src="/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> on on LDL server please. man I can't wait to grind Seb again. </p></blockquote> heh, you will have to stand in line.  The memories of camping Necro.

denboj
05-10-2007, 08:47 PM
<p><blockquote>Actully guys they are raising the level cap 9 levels not 10. (you are already 70, and 80 - 71 = 9). </blockquote> This is hands down the best argument in any discussion ever.</p>

denboj
05-10-2007, 09:00 PM
<p></blockquote>I totally agree with most of what you are saying, Lilmohi.  I think another lesson the devs learned between DoF and KoS was that they never want another rough transition between tiers again.  They've used EoF to balance things out even more.  When RoK comes out, I think you'll see that the legendary through mythical gear will still be good for about the first three or four levels until you need to transition to T8 stuff. </blockquote></p><p> So it will be good for the first 36 hours you say ?</p><p> <blockquote>Dude, is this your first MMORPG or something?  I hate to break it to you, but that's how this works.  You level up, get great stuff, level up some more and replace the old great stuff.  Expansions come out and sometimes increase the cap, you level up and get yet better stuff. See the pattern?  MMORPGs have no magic level where you are finally "done".  That's the beauty of them.  They are literally the game that never ends(unless the company goes bankrupt).  Going about with the mindset that all the gear you worked so hard to get should be irreplacable or won't eventually get outstripped eventually by higher level gear is just naive.  That naivety is going to make your gaming life miserable if you don't get over it....and that's your own fault, not SOE's. </blockquote></p><p>Thats a huge false in your staement right there dude. In eq1 when pop was released ppl were still farming vex thal like mad to make them self able to progress pop. IT was first on the next expansion (ldon) that ppl were actualy capable of progressing pop without gearing up madly on older world content. There were a lvl increase cap on the pop expansion yes, but it didnt mean that everything done in the path was totally useless. I am sorry but your attempt to be cool is so wrong that it hurts. A 10 lvl increase is giong to make everything done in the past totally pointless. </p>

Azzikai
05-10-2007, 09:21 PM
<cite>denboj wrote:</cite><blockquote>Dude, is this your first MMORPG or something?  I hate to break it to you, but that's how this works.  You level up, get great stuff, level up some more and replace the old great stuff.  Expansions come out and sometimes increase the cap, you level up and get yet better stuff. See the pattern?  MMORPGs have no magic level where you are finally "done".  That's the beauty of them.  They are literally the game that never ends(unless the company goes bankrupt).  Going about with the mindset that all the gear you worked so hard to get should be irreplacable or won't eventually get outstripped eventually by higher level gear is just naive.  That naivety is going to make your gaming life miserable if you don't get over it....and that's your own fault, not SOE's. </blockquote><p><i>Thats a huge false in your staement right there dude. In eq1 when pop was released ppl were still farming vex thal like mad to make them self able to progress pop. IT was first on the next expansion (ldon) that ppl were actualy capable of progressing pop without gearing up madly on older world content. There were a lvl increase cap on the pop expansion yes, but it didnt mean that everything done in the path was totally useless. I am sorry but your attempt to be cool is so wrong that it hurts. A 10 lvl increase is giong to make everything done in the past totally pointless.</i> </p><p>How? How is it going to be pointless? How can having T7 legendary and mythical items be a bad thing?</p><p>I honestly don't get this "woe is me, I shan't log in until the expansion because it is pointless I tell you, POINTLESS!" attitude. Look at it logically, the best T7 gear doesn't suddenly become worse than treasured the moment you ding 71. The bonuses on that gear don't automatically turn off because you walk into Kunark. The Kunark mobs aren't going to fall over and hand you a full suit of better-than-mythical items as soon as you are in range. Having that gear makes you much better prepared to fight the content than NOT having it, just like it does raiding content. </p><p>Unless you guys are saying that once you ding 71 there won't be any appreciable difference between T7 Mastercrafted and T7 Mythical/Legendary, and honestly believe it as well, I just don't see the issue. The gear you have now will be replaced. The better the gear you have now the longer it will take to replace it. It is the same as it was in EQ in that regard. </p>

Halo of G4
05-10-2007, 09:25 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p><span style="color: #ffff00"> The DEVS have said -the game can support up to level 200!! 80 is NOT the last level cap raise. Get used to it. Its happening. T8 does NOT make T7 "useless" - it makes it the same as every other tier. </span></p><p><span style="color: #3300ff">Thus making new players feel overwhelmed, and also thinning out the population between zones.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ffff00">I GUARENTEE you that this will not be the last cap raise ever. It simply wont be. SO get past it. New levels = new content = new gear = RETAINED PLAYERBASE.</span></p><p><span style="color: #3300ff">When that happens I plan on quitting. WoW is only up to lvl 70 people aren't [I cannot control my vocabulary] bricks about leveling increase.</span> </p><p><span style="color: #ffff00">The same people who are complaining now complained about 60, then complained about 70 and now complain abotu 80.. yet they are still here. </span></p></blockquote>

liveja
05-10-2007, 09:25 PM
<cite>Azzikai wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Unless you guys are saying that once you ding 71 there won't be any appreciable difference between T7 Mastercrafted and T7 Mythical, and honestly believe it as well, I just don't see the issue. </p></blockquote><p>That, I definitely agree with.</p><p>I think there are going to be a variety of "issues" with a level cap raise, but I'm not worried about it, & I'm certainly not going to avoid playing my 70 Swashy until the expansion comes out. </p>

Aarin
05-10-2007, 09:32 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p><span style="color: #ffff00"> The DEVS have said -the game can support up to level 200!! 80 is NOT the last level cap raise. Get used to it. Its happening. T8 does NOT make T7 "useless" - it makes it the same as every other tier. </span></p><p><span style="color: #ffff00">I GUARENTEE you that this will not be the last cap raise ever. It simply wont be. SO get past it. New levels = new content = new gear = RETAINED PLAYERBASE.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ffff00">The same people who are complaining now complained about 60, then complained about 70 and now complain abotu 80.. yet they are still here. </span></p></blockquote>i totally agree with you bro

Halo of G4
05-10-2007, 09:35 PM
<p>Once Kunark comes out then 1-70 will become a grindfest.</p><p> Hell my lvl 40 alt is having trouble finding groups that don't involve camping somewhere and grinding...</p>

dlove1
05-11-2007, 12:12 AM
account closed. there is no place for comments when you close your account, so I am posting them here. I do NOT want another level increase. all it will accomplish is changing the number by my name. I will have to replace my fabled gear with treasured or mastercrafted. I get to replace all my master spells(and I have all of them) with the same spells with new names and the same icons. there will be a 10-15% damage increase that will later be nerfed in a "10% reduction in DPS across  the board" this game doesn't really start until you get to the level cap. all that is happening is the great zones that people are enjoying today will become farm zones like poets is now.  I think this will be like the DoF expansion. we went from having a long list of places to go and things to do to saying things like "where are we going tonight? tables? cazels? or poets?" there is no need to EVER raise the cap if skills just roll over every 14 levels. all it does is trivialize everything in the lower tiers and spread the sparse population ever thinner. it's next to impossible to get a group from level 30-62 on lucan. if you are going to make it worse, at least open solo zones like harclave so I can PL my way to the real content and not have to try and solo heroic quest. this game was a ton of fun before LU13/DoF. it was fun again after KoS. it's fun now. I don't want to be around for the next DoF. everything between now and then is a waste of time. why should I try to finally finish the claymore or get a new pair of fabled gloves. the first trash named in T8 will drop something better. anyway. the only reason to play  before  the cap goes up is to level your alts and get them ready for the sprint from 70 to 80.  what a joke.  then, in 2 months there will be 100 toons naked spoon fighting on the beach because they are bored with the 4 raid mobs  and 5 instances. cyall later thanks, Devol

LordPazuzu
05-11-2007, 12:14 AM
<blockquote>denboj wrote: I Thats a huge false in your staement right there dude. In eq1 when pop was released ppl were still farming vex thal like mad to make them self able to progress pop. IT was first on the next expansion (ldon) that ppl were actualy capable of progressing pop without gearing up madly on older world content. There were a lvl increase cap on the pop expansion yes, but it didnt mean that everything done in the path was totally useless. I am sorry but your attempt to be cool is so wrong that it hurts. A 10 lvl increase is giong to make everything done in the past totally pointless. </blockquote><p>Yes, but this is EverQuest 2, not EverQuest 1 and quite frankly the two expansions you just referenced where not exactly what I'd call EQ1's best efforts.  </p><p>Your logic is greatly flawed.  T8 gear does not make T7 gear useless just like adding T7 content did not make T6 gear useless.  That's like saying T2 gear is useless because T3 armor exists.  You still don't seem to grasp the basic concept of level progression.  Your T7 gear will serve an excellent purpose...  It helps you explore T8 content and obtain T8 gear just like your T8 gear will eventually help you get T9 gear and so on and so on and so on.  To expect it to be otherwise denotes and inherent lack of understanding of the basic system in place here.</p>

Rufio
05-11-2007, 01:00 AM
LOL. Bunch of whingers I swear, you complain that you have to lvl up again after sitting on your bum for 6 months or so raiding to feel l33t. Boo Hoo, cry me a river you lvl 70 noobs.

ke'la
05-11-2007, 01:59 AM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>  T7 fabled is still going to be better than a lot of T8 gear I'm sure, so its not like the second the expansion comes out everyone needs new gear, it's called progression.  </p></blockquote><p>Accually aside from Handcrafted, ALL T8 gear WILL BE better where it counts then T7 Fabled. Just like it was when we went to T7 from T6 and from T5 to T6. Yes you will not have the ansalary bonus buffs on the Hand and MasterCrafted that you get with T7 Fabled but by and large the T8 Crafted WILL HAVE better stats.</p><p>BTW, that 150-200 number was said durring BETA and does not apply. When asked what the lvl cap will be in 5 years(when KoS was release just over a year ago) Scott said maybe around 90, so that means only one more lvl raise in the next 4 years.</p><p>I did raid T6 after KoS came out(because I was in a weak guild at the time and even at 65 we had trouble with the easy Raid zones in DoF), and guess what the Gear commonish out of the Heroic Dungon SoS was FAR BETTER then what we got on Poet's runs.  </p>

Aethane
05-11-2007, 02:41 AM
<cite>LordPazuzu wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><span style="font-family: andale mono,times"><blockquote>And tell me, why should us folks that invested alot of time in getting fabled and such, replace all that with mastercrafted heroic instance items?</blockquote></span></p><p>Dude, is this your first MMORPG or something?  I hate to break it to you, but that's how this works.  You level up, get great stuff, level up some more and replace the old great stuff.  Expansions come out and sometimes increase the cap, you level up and get yet better stuff. See the pattern?  MMORPGs have no magic level where you are finally "done".  That's the beauty of them.  They are literally the game that never ends(unless the company goes bankrupt).  Going about with the mindset that all the gear you worked so hard to get should be irreplacable or won't eventually get outstripped eventually by higher level gear is just naive.  That naivety is going to make your gaming life miserable if you don't get over it....and that's your own fault, not SOE's.</p><p> For the record, I was against level increase with EoF and felt SOE made the right deceision there.  EoF really did alot to flesh out the game world and to have made some of it T8 content would have spread the content too thin all around.  However I feel that a level increase every other expansion is not unreasonable and should be expected.</p></blockquote><p>I've  been playing mmo's for over 10 years, you were prolly still in diapers then. I was a top tank in a top raid guild before eq2 was ever dreamed of. I've seen every mistake these companies have made and the effect they had on the population and overall health of the games they developed. There are alot of avenues to creating challenging content not all of which include mudflation aka level cap increases and skill cap increases. Not my fauly SoE is too inept to create a smarter AI for the mobs. Scripted content is also a nice avenue to go with, if players do x then y happens, but SOE rarely does this sort of thing. Other companies have to great success ala Blizzard, but that game looks like garbage.</p><p>I am a very accomplished player in this game, definitely in the top 10%, i will lose far less from this than others like yourself. We are losing 2 expansions to gain 1, Kunark will not be anywhere near that big. Within 2 weeks we will all be doing the same 3-6 dungeons every night and we'll all be level 80 with far fewer players to group with. It will spread the population out alot and we'll lose alot of players too. If you havent noticed populations are already low and have been since the DoF debacle. Here comes another DoF debacle. I won't quit, i have a great guild and i have fun with them. But i know for sure the world i play in is gonna get alot smaller. </p>

Daarom
05-11-2007, 03:27 AM
ke'la wrote: <blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>  T7 fabled is still going to be better than a lot of T8 gear I'm sure, so its not like the second the expansion comes out everyone needs new gear, it's called progression.  </p></blockquote><p>Accually aside from Handcrafted, ALL T8 gear WILL BE better where it counts then T7 Fabled. Just like it was when we went to T7 from T6 and from T5 to T6. Yes you will not have the ansalary bonus buffs on the Hand and MasterCrafted that you get with T7 Fabled but by and large the T8 Crafted WILL HAVE better stats.</p></blockquote>Oh I still wear arms from GoAA cause I cant find any better except Nightchord ... but that one didnt drop for me the last 8 Months and I am in a raiding guild (4d/week)

Angelow
05-11-2007, 05:19 AM
<p>Personally I find the concept of a level raise very frustrating.  As many people have stated increasing the level cap to 80 is not the same as a level raise in EQ1 was....... here it trivializes everything done at level 70.  This argument has been well stated several times, so I wont bother rehashing it.</p><p>My personal question is this.  Why should I bother logging in right now?  I am in very good gear, with nearly all my masters.  I raid 2-3 times a week depending on work schedule.   Why should I continue to play my toon when I see upgrades for any slot/spell on average maybe once every 3 weeks.  So I play about 25 hours a week (maybe more like 35 depending on my work load that week) to see a 1 in 3 chance of getting an upgrade.   Yes, I can roll an alt..... but why bother gearing that alt out?  Grinding the levels is cake, and I have done most of the content.  What keeps me playing and coming back for more is getting every single item out there that I want that is an upgrade.  I have almost full fabled gear, but it is not exactly the fabled gear I want......... so I continue to play.  With an expansion on the horizon why bother spending the next 6 months getting upgrades to my current fabled gear, it will just all become crap filling up my back pack 1 week after the expansion releases.</p><p> Put this another way.  I could level an alt to 70 right now, park him/her at 70 still in level 62 MC gear.  Then continue to gear out my main toon with even better fabled, get my last few masters etc.  When Kunark releases lets say I pick up that alt and dust him/her off the day of launch.  I dont play my fabled toon at all for the first two weeks after launch of kunark, just my alt who was 70 in MC gear.   After those two weeks my alt will be superior to my main in every way.  Better gear, spells that are better, and generally more powerfull.   Expansions that raise level caps bring all those toons that are geared and mastered down to the level of a person who has done nothing with their toon but power it to the level cap and give it MC gear.</p><p>All that being said, please tell me what my motivation is to play your game for VERY marginal upgrades for the next 6 months when even major upgrades would be replaces by treasured crap within 72 hours of the launch of your new expansion.  My personal solution is dont raise the level cap, add a bazillion more AA pts, but thats just my opininon.  And yes I knew they might well raise the cap again, and I have said for a long time they would probably lose my business if they choose to do that.  I dont know if they will lose my business forever or not, but I doubt I will continue to pay for this game for the next 6 months.</p><p> PS-  In the future giving us a 4-6 week heads up that you are about to make all of our hard work trivial is probably alot better then a 24 week heads up....... now I just dont want to pay you for the next 6 months.  (YES!  I would rather not know what I am doing is about to become worthless, then I could still enjoy doing it untill the expansion came out)</p>

Themaginator
05-11-2007, 05:34 AM
oh this thread again except now the 70 is replaced with 80. [To dlove] /sigh so if all it took for you to quit the game is new content and more levels, why the hell were you playing in the first place, i mean its an MMO, level caps go up...thats what happens...ive argued for this to much over my 2 1/2 years...you kids have fun now.

rubels
05-11-2007, 07:38 AM
<p>All I can say is anyone want to x 2 EH , MMIS , FTH ? </p><p>Saving all my DKP and plat until tier 8.</p><p>-  Krovax</p>

Skylher
05-11-2007, 10:35 AM
<p>you can please some of the people some of the time, but you cant please all of the people all of the time.</p><p>I am completely bored with the game. I look forward to the level increase why?</p><p>my crafters will have something to do. New stuff to make, new furniture, new spells and finally have somethign to sell worth buying.</p><p>my adventurers will have something to do as well. new masters to find instead of farming Poets palace all day trying to find the very few i need on an alt. </p><p>the only thing i do on my main is raid. I dont do instances, i only craft to raid, except for food and drink they still sell very well. Now instances will be worth while, finding the new masters and advanced recipes. Getting new loot for transmuting etc...</p><p>alot of people are bored and have considered cancellign their accounts til the expansion. My god its still 6 mths away. So those who are against it have six months to get to level cap, or get kos raid zones conquered and move to EoF. Six months is a long time. Too long for me honestly but i guess i will jsut work on claymore or something since i absolutely hate that quest but its something to kill time.</p>

Halo of G4
05-11-2007, 10:41 AM
<p>The biggest problem is after the l33t raiding groups are done spending time beating every raiding instance at lvl80  then they will come back cry more about "Wheres my content? I spent about 25 days on my computer beating all of these RoK instances and raid encounters and now I have nothing to do!"</p><p>I hope Odus will come after RoK for 35-80 perhaps.</p>

Thicket Tundrabog
05-11-2007, 11:02 AM
I was deadset against a level increase for Echoes of Faydwer. It was too soon. I'm totally in favour of a level increase to 80 for the Kunark expansion. It's definitely time for a level cap increase.

Catsy
05-11-2007, 11:06 AM
ke'la wrote: <blockquote>Accually aside from Handcrafted, ALL T8 gear WILL BE better where it counts then T7 Fabled. Just like it was when we went to T7 from T6 and from T5 to T6. Yes you will not have the ansalary bonus buffs on the Hand and MasterCrafted that you get with T7 Fabled but by and large the T8 Crafted WILL HAVE better stats.</blockquote> In what universe is T7 mastercrafted better than T6 fabled? WTB what you're smoking. Xegonite Vanguard armor has +16 or so to the relevant primary stats, +50 health/power, and +200 to resists. High-end T6 fabled (level 57-60) typically has in the range of +18-25 to stats, +70ish power, and +300ish to resists. EoF treasured is better than a lot of KoS legendary in pure stats and resists, but that's mainly because of the huge nerf KoS gear took when EoF came out--it broke the normal progression. When KoS first came out, you had to get into the high 60's legendary before T7 gear surpassed high-end T6 fabled. People complaining that their uber level 70 fabled set gear is going to be obsolete and a waste of money/DKP when RoK comes out are missing the plot. That gear is some of the best that T7 has to offer, and you're going to have to start raiding T8 endgame content before you find anything better.

Aethane
05-11-2007, 11:27 AM
Halo of G4 wrote: <blockquote><p>The biggest problem is after the l33t raiding groups are done spending time beating every raiding instance at lvl80  then they will come back cry more about "Wheres my content? I spent about 25 days on my computer beating all of these RoK instances and raid encounters and now I have nothing to do!"</p><p>I hope Odus will come after RoK for 35-80 perhaps.</p></blockquote><p> [Removed for Content], most guilds that raid are nowhere near done with eof content, heck alot of us 1337 raiders are still working in KoS, avatars are not on farm status so guess your theory that we exhausted the content is null and void.Dof came too soon and the cap increase was too, alot of folks quit, kos brought some back and eof brought even more back cause the cap stayed the same.We most likely wont be done with EoF when RoK comes out either. I guess you think fabled grows on trees? It is rare, i am still trying to replace my shoulders after months in KoS. Either drop rates need upped if they want to set this kind of pace or level cap increases need to stop.</p><p>You guys act like a level increase is a MUST! Well it isn't, the content will come either way, just that without the increase we can do 3 expansions instead of 1.</p><p>Less than 1% of the total game population has actually beaten all the raid content, i dont think we should be going with the pace in development that these players play at. The average raider isn't anywhere close to being done with EoF content. So if we actually bother doing the content now, instead of finishing it we get a new expansion that makes any attempt we made useless because all the gear will be wasted and replaced with heroic instance trash gear in a week or two, some kind of progression that is, not.</p>

quamdar
05-11-2007, 11:37 AM
ke'la wrote: <blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>  T7 fabled is still going to be better than a lot of T8 gear I'm sure, so its not like the second the expansion comes out everyone needs new gear, it's called progression.  </p></blockquote><p>Accually aside from Handcrafted, ALL T8 gear WILL BE better where it counts then T7 Fabled. Just like it was when we went to T7 from T6 and from T5 to T6. Yes you will not have the ansalary bonus buffs on the Hand and MasterCrafted that you get with T7 Fabled but by and large the T8 Crafted WILL HAVE better stats.</p><p>BTW, that 150-200 number was said durring BETA and does not apply. When asked what the lvl cap will be in 5 years(when KoS was release just over a year ago) Scott said maybe around 90, so that means only one more lvl raise in the next 4 years.</p><p>I did raid T6 after KoS came out(because I was in a weak guild at the time and even at 65 we had trouble with the easy Raid zones in DoF), and guess what the Gear commonish out of the Heroic Dungon SoS was FAR BETTER then what we got on Poet's runs.  </p></blockquote>it "WILL BE better"?  how exactly do you know that since we have a new item DEV so can't really compare what they are going to do with what the old person did in the past.  i personally am going to assume he will do a lot better job at itemizing this next expansion.

liveja
05-11-2007, 11:39 AM
Angelow wrote: <blockquote><p>As many people have stated increasing the level cap to 80 is not the same as a level raise in EQ1 was....... here it trivializes everything done at level 70. This argument has been well stated several times, so I wont bother rehashing it.</p></blockquote><p>Please, re-hash it, because I haven't yet seen a reason to take that argument seriously.</p>

quamdar
05-11-2007, 11:45 AM
<cite>Aethane wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Less than 1% of the total game population has actually beaten all the raid content, i dont think we should be going with the pace in development that these players play at. The average raider isn't anywhere close to being done with EoF content. So if we actually bother doing the content now, instead of finishing it we get a new expansion that makes any attempt we made useless because all the gear will be wasted and replaced with heroic instance trash gear in a week or two, some kind of progression that is, not.</p></blockquote>we aren't going nearly at the pace of those 1% of players you refer too.  they have had everything dead for a few months now and there are still 6 months until the next expansion so they are going to be farming for a long time.  i think the pace is pretty good, by the time RoK comes out i think everyone that would have beaten the content at level 70 will have beaten it by then. i am not a big fan of level increases either but they are dedicating a whole expansion minus one zone to this new tier which will hopefully mean that there are more than enough things to raid and lots of heroic instances as well.  imagine EoF with everything being T7 minus GFay (maybe even bigger since they had 9 months from KoS till EoF and 12 months from EoF till RoK) that would leave a lot of content to do.  also this gives them a chance to tweak the diminishing returns curves to make them a little bit better.

Gungo
05-11-2007, 12:03 PM
<p>I am sorry a lvl raise is a must after 2 years at 70 the current itemiation has already reached the hard caps in skills. </p><p>and a rise in level is not as bad as it was in DoF or KOS. There have been many code changes since then specifically the LVL varible involved in gear was recoded and has NO effect on the quality of the item. The only difference now is what you see is what you get. So while new gear will drop in RoK and some will replace current raid gear i expect the vest majority of raid gear will be used at lvl 80. You just don't see effects on treasured gear like you do fabeld gear. Maybe a few legendary pieces will replace fabled, But that is all. So again there has been 2 major seperate code changes since the cap was raised in KOS.  That make gear less level dependant. </p><p>This game is a level based game built including hard caps. Eventually it will need to be raised. Unless they plan on nerfing gear and recoding hardcaps every expansion. Heck for EOF to come out they had to nerf gear and raise hard caps. All that RoK is doing is raising hard caps by increasign the level. </p>

chily
05-11-2007, 12:07 PM
<p>I'm happy with level 80 but i'm a freak lol</p><p>I can get 3 70'chars to 80 and 4 70'crafters to 80 and i think i level a new char to 80.</p><p>It's nice to get the level inc more challenge incomming and new instances and so on.</p><p>And it get's harder for those who are level 70 and solo pp or other zones for masters. I mean nice that those can do it but i think the current zones are hard to solo at 80.</p><p>I say HURRAY LEVEL 80 <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>my 2cp <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

OakravenDesade
05-11-2007, 01:38 PM
<p>the way I see it. . . </p><p>this expansion comes out in november </p><p>by then noone who is level 70 now and in their right minds will want to see Mayong or The Bugaboo again.</p>

KatrinaDeath
05-11-2007, 02:33 PM
<p>For those who want more AA and not a level increase I ask you the following...</p><p>What would the progression be at 70? So someone hits 70 and plays in KoS, raids in KoS til they're geared enough for EoF. The they go to EoF and raid there, get some better gear and then... Off to RoK for more gear upgrades? Gear in RoK without a level cap increase would have to be better than EoF Fabled. And you want to grind more AA's still being at level 70. Forcing us to stay only in the new area to get more AAexp. Whereas with the level cap increase one could still be able to grind in KoS if they wanted.</p><p>I would rather see the level cap go up, maybe some AA's, and some nice T8 gear. This game was designed for at least 100 levels and people think that we are going to sit at 70 3 expansions in a row? I welcome these new levels, a few "NEW" spells and having to go get 10 levels of masters. Less your anchient teachings only about 2/3 of your spells will get upgraded. </p><p>/cry more</p><p>I'll be one of the first to 80 and I'll enjoy every minute of grinding.</p>

lilmohi
05-11-2007, 03:52 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>ke'la wrote: <blockquote>Accually aside from Handcrafted, ALL T8 gear WILL BE better where it counts then T7 Fabled. Just like it was when we went to T7 from T6 and from T5 to T6. Yes you will not have the ansalary bonus buffs on the Hand and MasterCrafted that you get with T7 Fabled but by and large the T8 Crafted WILL HAVE better stats.</blockquote> In what universe is T7 mastercrafted better than T6 fabled? WTB what you're smoking. Xegonite Vanguard armor has +16 or so to the relevant primary stats, +50 health/power, and +200 to resists. High-end T6 fabled (level 57-60) typically has in the range of +18-25 to stats, +70ish power, and +300ish to resists. EoF treasured is better than a lot of KoS legendary in pure stats and resists, but that's mainly because of the huge nerf KoS gear took when EoF came out--it broke the normal progression. When KoS first came out, you had to get into the high 60's legendary before T7 gear surpassed high-end T6 fabled. People complaining that their uber level 70 fabled set gear is going to be obsolete and a waste of money/DKP when RoK comes out are missing the plot. That gear is some of the best that T7 has to offer, and you're going to have to start raiding T8 endgame content before you find anything better. </blockquote> I think a lot of people have this idea that the first trash item that drops when they land in eof will be lvl 80 and far superior to anything from t7.  If people remeber the first dungeon in KoS dropped legendary gear that for the most part ranged from 62-65, however even that gear wasn't better than the high end T6 fabled.   Heck even now i have several pieces of lvl 62 legendary gear that will probably be replacable before too long in kunark, but the lvl 68+ stuff won't be, it will take top end dungeons with mobs in the 80-84 range to find gear that is better.  As for you raider types that have fully geared up, you will be able to skip the t8 heroic dungeons and go stright to raiding the easier t8 raid zones and it will be like getting into the elementals Back in eq1.

LordPazuzu
05-11-2007, 05:24 PM
<p><blockquote>Aethane wrote: </p><p>I've  been playing mmo's for over 10 years, you were prolly still in diapers then. I was a top tank in a top raid guild before eq2 was ever dreamed of. I've seen every mistake these companies have made and the effect they had on the population and overall health of the games they developed. There are alot of avenues to creating challenging content not all of which include mudflation aka level cap increases and skill cap increases. Not my fauly SoE is too inept to create a smarter AI for the mobs. Scripted content is also a nice avenue to go with, if players do x then y happens, but SOE rarely does this sort of thing. Other companies have to great success ala Blizzard, but that game looks like garbage.</p><p>I am a very accomplished player in this game, definitely in the top 10%, i will lose far less from this than others like yourself. We are losing 2 expansions to gain 1, Kunark will not be anywhere near that big. Within 2 weeks we will all be doing the same 3-6 dungeons every night and we'll all be level 80 with far fewer players to group with. It will spread the population out alot and we'll lose alot of players too. If you havent noticed populations are already low and have been since the DoF debacle. Here comes another DoF debacle. I won't quit, i have a great guild and i have fun with them. But i know for sure the world i play in is gonna get alot smaller.</blockquote></p><p>LOL!  Yeah, that's it!  You got me. Whatever.  Actually that means we've been playing MMOs for about the same amount of time then.  DoF wasn't a debacle because they raised the level cap.  DoF was a debacle because it was tiny and what little content there was sucked hard.  SOE is making the grand claim that RoK will be larger than EoF and even larger than the original RoK.  If that's the case then I see absoluely no problem.  KoS wasn't all that large either.  In terms of loss, I lose nothing if they raise the cap with the new expansion.  I gain 10 new levels to obtain and a new continent to explore.  Sounds like nothing but gain to me.  If you think that makes your world smaller then we obviously have a much different perspective on the game and MMOs in general.  </p><p>I obviously play for much different reasons than many of you.  I've got absolutely no problem with having to replace my T7 fabled gear with new T8 gear.  To me it seems that they have pretty much reached the cap at where they can go with T7 gear.  This expansion isn't due out until almost the end of the year.  I imagine I'll be pretty sick of T7 by the time November comes around.  Give me something new, give me something challenging.  And give it to me in forms I can solo, group, and raid to experience. </p>

lilmohi
05-11-2007, 06:43 PM
<cite>Aethane wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>LordPazuzu wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><span style="font-family: andale mono,times"><blockquote>And tell me, why should us folks that invested alot of time in getting fabled and such, replace all that with mastercrafted heroic instance items?</blockquote></span></p><p>Dude, is this your first MMORPG or something?  I hate to break it to you, but that's how this works.  You level up, get great stuff, level up some more and replace the old great stuff.  Expansions come out and sometimes increase the cap, you level up and get yet better stuff. See the pattern?  MMORPGs have no magic level where you are finally "done".  That's the beauty of them.  They are literally the game that never ends(unless the company goes bankrupt).  Going about with the mindset that all the gear you worked so hard to get should be irreplacable or won't eventually get outstripped eventually by higher level gear is just naive.  That naivety is going to make your gaming life miserable if you don't get over it....and that's your own fault, not SOE's.</p><p> For the record, I was against level increase with EoF and felt SOE made the right deceision there.  EoF really did alot to flesh out the game world and to have made some of it T8 content would have spread the content too thin all around.  However I feel that a level increase every other expansion is not unreasonable and should be expected.</p></blockquote><p>I've  been playing mmo's for over 10 years, you were prolly still in diapers then. I was a top tank in a top raid guild before eq2 was ever dreamed of. I've seen every mistake these companies have made and the effect they had on the population and overall health of the games they developed. There are alot of avenues to creating challenging content not all of which include mudflation aka level cap increases and skill cap increases. Not my fauly SoE is too inept to create a smarter AI for the mobs. Scripted content is also a nice avenue to go with, if players do x then y happens, but SOE rarely does this sort of thing. Other companies have to great success ala Blizzard, but that game looks like garbage.</p><p>I am a very accomplished player in this game, definitely in the top 10%, i will lose far less from this than others like yourself. We are losing 2 expansions to gain 1, Kunark will not be anywhere near that big. Within 2 weeks we will all be doing the same 3-6 dungeons every night and we'll all be level 80 with far fewer players to group with. It will spread the population out alot and we'll lose alot of players too. If you havent noticed populations are already low and have been since the DoF debacle. Here comes another DoF debacle. I won't quit, i have a great guild and i have fun with them. But i know for sure the world i play in is gonna get alot smaller. </p></blockquote><p>And i started my mmo experience 14 years ago (not that it matters), it was a nice little dikuMud and in the 4 years that i played it they never once raised the level limit.  Instead they added ranks so that as you gained new ranks you got new innate abilites to help you fight.  This sounded cool and nothing in the game would grey out.  However despite the fact that people could use the old content they always clustered in the newest zones because it gave the best xp/gear.  The game eventually got really boring so me and my friends started writing zones to help make the game bigger and more interesting however even that got old and we eventually all just used the game to chat with each other.  The simple fact was having 30 level 50 zones didn't matter much if you could only fight in a few of them because either your gear wasn't good enough for the top ones, or was so good you had no reason to go to the lesser ones.  What was worse was you could never tell if a zone was too hard for you until you tried and died because everything was the same level (exept the lowbie zones).</p><p>And if you actually knew about mmo history you would know that "mudflation" has nothing to do with level cap increase.  What "mudflation" refers to is the concept that each new expansion has better rewards (ie loot, exp etc) that are better than what previously existed for the same level of content.  A classic example of this is as many have noticed, solo quest rewards in gfay are a lot better than most quest rewards in antonica (same level content).  </p>

Illmarr
05-11-2007, 07:18 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>ke'la wrote: <blockquote>Accually aside from Handcrafted, ALL T8 gear WILL BE better where it counts then T7 Fabled. Just like it was when we went to T7 from T6 and from T5 to T6. Yes you will not have the ansalary bonus buffs on the Hand and MasterCrafted that you get with T7 Fabled but by and large the T8 Crafted WILL HAVE better stats.</blockquote> In what universe is T7 mastercrafted better than T6 fabled? WTB what you're smoking. Xegonite Vanguard armor has +16 or so to the relevant primary stats, +50 health/power, and +200 to resists. High-end T6 fabled (level 57-60) typically has in the range of +18-25 to stats, +70ish power, and +300ish to resists. EoF treasured is better than a lot of KoS legendary in pure stats and resists, but that's mainly because of the huge nerf KoS gear took when EoF came out--it broke the normal progression. When KoS first came out, you had to get into the high 60's legendary before T7 gear surpassed high-end T6 fabled. People complaining that their uber level 70 fabled set gear is going to be obsolete and a waste of money/DKP when RoK comes out are missing the plot. That gear is some of the best that T7 has to offer, and you're going to have to start raiding T8 endgame content before you find anything better. </blockquote>I'm all for the increase, but in the interest of accuracy I have to say that in the EQ2 universe T7 Mastercrafted is better than T6 Fabled. I tagged along on my only raid to Vaults (I think that is what it was called, it was the instance you get to off the Naga area and gave guild status for kills) I'm in T7 Mastercrafted. I saw the stats on some plate gloves and shoulders, and the mitigation on them was about 40ish points higher on each piece than my Xegonite Vanguard so I rolled on them and won. I equipped them and was shocked to see my mitigation had actually decreased! I felt so bad about it because there was a 58 SK that could have used them, but in my ignorance I cost him something. Never raided since, but the point is that a piece of Fabled with much better stats listed is actually worse than the next higher tier Mastercrafted. That was why I suggested enlarging the effective range of gear from 10 to 15 levels, but I guess that's not possible according to others

Ghostfire
05-11-2007, 11:18 PM
 i am looking forward too level 80 my fury has been 70 for 5 months now she will be happy too grind again

Fortai
05-12-2007, 12:07 AM
Just because you give SOE 50 cents a day, does not mean you are the primary stock holder for the company.  I know you think that because you pay a monthly fee, the game should be exactly how you want, forgetting about all the other play styles, but it doesn't work like that. Almost every player on this board describes leveling up as "daunting."  They are describing going from 70 to 80, and gearing up once again, like it is work.  Am I the only one that actually thinks it's fun, and not work?  If it stayed at 70, I would have fun building up my character and upgrading my legendary and some fabled gear to RoK legendary and some fabled gear.  If it went to 80, I would still have fun, replacing gear for a new tier.  It seems instead of actually having fun playing the game, people are miserable over every single change.  If I was miserable, I would stop paying the company that was making me that way.  Almost every change has a positive aspect to it, try looking at that.  <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Mildayr
05-12-2007, 12:27 AM
more aa's ftw

Winter
05-12-2007, 12:50 AM
<span style="font-size: medium; color: #ff66cc; font-family: comic sans ms,sand">The addition of new levels or content always has and always will require rebalancing of some sort... I'm sure they'll scale the more significant content appropriately for the new level cap.</span>

OakravenDesade
05-12-2007, 05:33 AM
<p>Wow</p><p>Granted they seem to be fairly close with class balance now (in my opinion) now, at least compared to how badly they botched things in the original Kunark expansion. (and yes I am aware that people think either their class needs work or another class is a bit overpowered right now, but it still seems to me like things are a bit better now than they were then.) and in retrospect it was a bit obviouse that some classes were already showing signs of being less than optimal before ROK showed up.</p>

Godshand13
05-12-2007, 07:50 AM
I kinda have to go against a level increase.  I mean if they were to add all new abilities after level 70, then I would be all for it.   I have used generally the same abilities since the beginning, and it is getting old.  The abilities don't even get stronger considering the mobs get tougher with us.   So to be honest it's the same song.  Ooooh! Maybe they could add specialties.  Like mages specializing in a particular element, or warriors focusing on either weapon mastery or armor.   Dude you could have like a "Sword Saint" or "Juggernaut".  Huge fighters that have and uncanny strength and duel wield 2h weapons.  I would love to have my wizard totally focus on fire.  Huge torrents of fiery pain and death.  "Pyromaniac" anyone?   Or my Bruiser be able use a "Dark Ki" to knock mobs around from  distance or crush them with a cold resolve.  Shadows Knights using either hellfire and brimstone, or pestilence and disease.  Women and children running for the hills, dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria!!  Even add to HO's that utilize this as well as buffs and debuffs or new transformations.  I know achievements boost stats and kinda do these things, but to add new wicked abilities with new effects would kick some major tail.  So all new epic abilities that make us feel all warm and tingly inside.  I don't really care about anything else.  New race is nice.  It would be cool to see more character customization options. Full hooded cloaks would be sick.  Eh, there's no satisfying my..   <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Give me something new.  Even the achievements add little in the way of new content.  I very much like this game, but please tickle us a little more.  IT'S FANTASY SKIES THE LIMIT

Kri
05-12-2007, 09:07 AM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>Just because you give SOE 50 cents a day, does not mean you are the primary stock holder for the company.  I know you think that because you pay a monthly fee, the game should be exactly how you want, forgetting about all the other play styles, but it doesn't work like that. Almost every player on this board describes leveling up as "daunting."  They are describing going from 70 to 80, and gearing up once again, like it is work.  Am I the only one that actually thinks it's fun, and not work?  If it stayed at 70, I would have fun building up my character and upgrading my legendary and some fabled gear to RoK legendary and some fabled gear.  If it went to 80, I would still have fun, replacing gear for a new tier.  It seems instead of actually having fun playing the game, people are miserable over every single change.  If I was miserable, I would stop paying the company that was making me that way.  Almost every change has a positive aspect to it, try looking at that.  <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote>I feel the same way. I'm having fun exploring and equipping my characters now and I will have at least an equal amount of fun doing it in the Kunark zones. Probably more since I like the idea of more open zones. I don't understand their fascination for mountain ridges and crevasses.

Gargamel
05-12-2007, 11:57 AM
<p>Going to 80 is a mistake, but I guess they made it already.</p><p>I mean from a player's perspective, we get the next 'teir' of the same spells / abilities we already have... big whoop.</p><p>But it really kills the high end raiding.  An increase to 75 would have been much better (even if it took the same xp as it does to get to 80).  Alot of the high end group / raiding in KoS and EoF goes to 75.  There are some 76's bosses too.</p><p>An increase to 75 would have made those zones (esp the EoF raid zones) available to clear to a much wider audience, without becoming too easy (green boss mobs) when they cap again.</p><p>Plus then there would be a good dozen or so high lvl group/ raid zones ranging from high mid 60 to 75 (including the new raid zones) that could keep everyone happy, while leaving your level there to enforce progression (even with crap gear you could raid the lower stuff at 75)</p><p>I just think at 80, all of the KoS intances, and even old starter favs like the Labs are going to go the way of the mesa.</p>

OakravenDesade
05-12-2007, 12:07 PM
<cite>Godshand13 wrote:</cite><blockquote>  I would love to have my wizard totally focus on fire.  Huge torrents of fiery pain and death.  "Pyromaniac" anyone?   </blockquote> that may be fun untill you get an expansion where half the mobs and allmost all of the endgame mobs are either fire resistant or fire Imune(and everything else is more or less "normal" for resists, Herein lies the problem, they HAVE to make the game with future expansion in mind, which is why your probably not going to see Extreem specialisation that would risk you being defacto locked out of a big chunk of the content.(That and they tend to design encounters with the idea that the players will have their gear/spells/arts optmised 

OakravenDesade
05-12-2007, 12:35 PM
<cite>Gargamel wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>But it really kills the high end raiding.  </p></blockquote><p>um no it simply moves high end raiding to level 80. Seriously how often do you think the original "Level 50" mobs get raided now? My understanding is that Raids dont start untill ~61-62, and while your server may vary I doubt theirs many raids going on below that level even allowing for the population. As it is Im one of thoes people who think that EoF should have upped the cap to 80 and that the current "end game" mob should be ~93</p>

Catsy
05-12-2007, 02:43 PM
Without raising the level cap, further gear progression is impossible. I can't put it any simpler than that. With most raiding players already capped or well past the point of diminishing returns on primary stats and resists, and even casual players at the point where further progression would get them to that point, there's just no way to produce gear with better stats that will be any kind of significant upgrade, due to the DR curve--which is based on adventure level. Consider, then, what happens if they release RoK without raising the level cap. Players will expect new and better loot, they will expect progression. Otherwise, there will be little point in adventuring for RoK gear, as it will not provide any meaningful upgrade to their equipment that they could not get out of EoF or KoS. To get around this, SOE could try and completely rewrite the balance of the combat system to raise the stat and resist caps. They're simply not going to do this--it would put them back at square one when they're still working to stabilize balance issues from the last combat revamp. They could also nerf all existing T7 gear the way they did to KoS gear when EoF came out. This is such a spectacularly bad idea that I have a hard time believing that anyone on the dev team would contemplate it--or that any player would want it. You're left with only one option if you want to offer people further gear progression: a raise in the level cap. You may not like it, but that's the way it is, and you need to accept it. Unless you can come up with a way around the hard, immutable mathematical facts concerning DR and the existing caps--and no one so far in any of the complaint threads has managed to do so, or even address this fact--your complaints are without substance.

Catsy
05-12-2007, 03:08 PM
To put this in perspective with numbers: The current stat cap is [ 15 * level + 20 ]. This means that at level 70, your maximum STR/AGI/STA/INT/WIS is 1070. The current cap for resists and mitigation is [ Level * 150 ], which at level 70 means your maximum resistance to any kind of damage--75%--is reached at 10500. It is not at all difficult, with all EoF treasured gear and self-buffs, to get to 500 in your primary stat and around 4k resists. Even casual raiders with self and group buffs have anywhere from 600-800 in their primary stat, and 8k-9k resists with their resist gear on. Serious raiders in EoF fabled are either capped in stats and resists, or close to it. There's just nowhere for gear progression to go in T7. If RoK gear is as proportionally better than EoF gear as EoF was to KoS, the capped or nearly-capped high-end raiders will see 1%-3% improvement, if any at all, while even casual players will see very little benefit.

AegisCrown
05-12-2007, 03:32 PM
im glad lvl 80 is set in stone.  we need im tired of being lvl 70 and killing the same [Removed for Content] voer and over. im looking foreward to being lvl 80 and say soloing unrest and valdoons etc when i get bored.  it will be good for the game.

ke'la
05-12-2007, 05:35 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>oh this thread again except now the 70 is replaced with 80. [To dlove] /sigh so if all it took for you to quit the game is new content and more levels, why the hell were you playing in the first place, i mean its an MMO, level caps go up...thats what happens...ive argued for this to much over my 2 1/2 years...you kids have fun now. </blockquote> Really in every MMO the lvl cap goes up... Funny it has not gone up in Co.. it has not gone up in SWG(granted they revamped the combate system twice, but if you where at the "lvl cap" in combate system a) then you where at the cap in b and c as well. WoW went over 2 years without raising the cap. The truth is the ONLY good reason to raise the lvl cap is so people can beat content when its Blue/Green that they could not beet when it was White/yellow. Especally in EQ2 when are your doing is getting the same exact spell only with larger Numbers under it. And don't give me that your former Best spell will be replaced by "the new hotness" of a spell you had 14 lvls ago, because the Uber spells such as Ice Comet where Uber until they got directly replaced 14 or in the case of Ice Comet 20 lvl latter. Thats right the Best Wizzard spell was the best spell for 19 lvls until it got new numbers and a New Name.

JohnDoe058
05-12-2007, 06:09 PM
<cite>Aethane wrote:</cite><blockquote>Halo of G4 wrote: <blockquote><p>The biggest problem is after the l33t raiding groups are done spending time beating every raiding instance at lvl80  then they will come back cry more about "Wheres my content? I spent about 25 days on my computer beating all of these RoK instances and raid encounters and now I have nothing to do!"</p><p>I hope Odus will come after RoK for 35-80 perhaps.</p></blockquote><p>Dof came too soon and the cap increase was too, alot of folks quit, kos brought some back and eof brought even more back cause the cap stayed the same.We most likely wont be done with EoF when RoK comes out either. I guess you think fabled grows on trees? It is rare, i am still trying to replace my shoulders after months in KoS. Either drop rates need upped if they want to set this kind of pace or level cap increases need to stop.</p></blockquote><p>I provide an alternate theory for the exodus that came with DoF.  It involves the following:</p><p>1) All the new landmass was one big, ugly desert</p><p>2) Provided no new features of real consequence, or at least none that you'd likely see inside a couple weeks.</p><p>3) Same spell/CA list, with just a couple new additions.  You didn't have the *big* spells/CA's that we get at 50 and 70.</p><p>4) Levelling 50-60 was extremely slow, yet unrewarding.</p><p>5) There was only 1 new zone: a big ugly desert. </p><p>6) Many kinks still to be ironed out; seemed like a hasty release.</p><p>7) Everything was ugly.  Everything.</p><p><img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Did I mention that everything was ugly, and that 100% of the outdoor content was a desert?  I probably did.</p><p> So in short, there are some *possible* alternate reasons that people left when DoF came out (including myself, for 6 months).  Lets be a bit more scientific than saying "The level cap was raised.  People left.  Therefore, people left because the level cap was raised."  That variable is hardly isolated.</p>

JohnDoe058
05-12-2007, 06:25 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>ke'la wrote: <blockquote>Accually aside from Handcrafted, ALL T8 gear WILL BE better where it counts then T7 Fabled. Just like it was when we went to T7 from T6 and from T5 to T6. Yes you will not have the ansalary bonus buffs on the Hand and MasterCrafted that you get with T7 Fabled but by and large the T8 Crafted WILL HAVE better stats.</blockquote> In what universe is T7 mastercrafted better than T6 fabled? WTB what you're smoking. Xegonite Vanguard armor has +16 or so to the relevant primary stats, +50 health/power, and +200 to resists. High-end T6 fabled (level 57-60) typically has in the range of +18-25 to stats, +70ish power, and +300ish to resists. EoF treasured is better than a lot of KoS legendary in pure stats and resists, but that's mainly because of the huge nerf KoS gear took when EoF came out--it broke the normal progression. When KoS first came out, you had to get into the high 60's legendary before T7 gear surpassed high-end T6 fabled. People complaining that their uber level 70 fabled set gear is going to be obsolete and a waste of money/DKP when RoK comes out are missing the plot. That gear is some of the best that T7 has to offer, and you're going to have to start raiding T8 endgame content before you find anything better. </blockquote><p> Completely agree.</p><p>T8 trash gear better than EoF Fabled?  Not likely, unless the very common T8 trash gear has nice dmg/power procs, cit % boosts, DPS mods, spell dmg % boosts, and/or flowing thought/regen.</p><p>Would I, as a caster, give up a power or damage proc for 7-10 points of INT?  Not on your life.  Not even for 15-20 int.</p><p>Just because gear has better primary stats, doesn't mean that it's better.</p><p>And keep in mind that there was a huge jump, in stats, from T6 to T7 gear.  A bigger jump that between other tiers.  That may, or may not be the case for T7-T8.  It seems unlikely, but we'll see.</p><p>Also, because EoF has been the only expansion wherein the lvl cap was not raised, but new, much better Fabled gear was introduced, you have a situation where ur gear can be higher in the teir, than any tier preceeding T7.  That would make it much more difficult for T8 "trash" gear to eclipse it.</p>

ke'la
05-12-2007, 07:22 PM
<cite>JohnDoe058 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aethane wrote:</cite><blockquote>Halo of G4 wrote: <blockquote><p>The biggest problem is after the l33t raiding groups are done spending time beating every raiding instance at lvl80  then they will come back cry more about "Wheres my content? I spent about 25 days on my computer beating all of these RoK instances and raid encounters and now I have nothing to do!"</p><p>I hope Odus will come after RoK for 35-80 perhaps.</p></blockquote><p>Dof came too soon and the cap increase was too, alot of folks quit, kos brought some back and eof brought even more back cause the cap stayed the same.We most likely wont be done with EoF when RoK comes out either. I guess you think fabled grows on trees? It is rare, i am still trying to replace my shoulders after months in KoS. Either drop rates need upped if they want to set this kind of pace or level cap increases need to stop.</p></blockquote><p>I provide an alternate theory for the exodus that came with DoF.  It involves the following:</p><p>1) All the new landmass was one big, ugly desert</p><p>2) Provided no new features of real consequence, or at least none that you'd likely see inside a couple weeks.</p><p>3) Same spell/CA list, with just a couple new additions.  You didn't have the *big* spells/CA's that we get at 50 and 70.</p><p>4) Levelling 50-60 was extremely slow, yet unrewarding.</p><p>5) There was only 1 new zone: a big ugly desert. </p><p>6) Many kinks still to be ironed out; seemed like a hasty release.</p><p>7) Everything was ugly.  Everything.</p><p><img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Did I mention that everything was ugly, and that 100% of the outdoor content was a desert?  I probably did.</p><p> So in short, there are some *possible* alternate reasons that people left when DoF came out (including myself, for 6 months).  Lets be a bit more scientific than saying "The level cap was raised.  People left.  Therefore, people left because the level cap was raised."  That variable is hardly isolated.</p></blockquote><p>Accually the reason for the large number of people leaving when DoF came out accually had NOTHING to do with DoF but infact had everthing to do with the Free content that was launched at the same time as DoF... LU13 also known as the Combate Revamp. As for KoS I accually did not see alot of people leave when KoS came out, I also did not see any new players come into the game(wich is why the population suffered overtime), the same was true with DoF. Personally, while I don't like the Idea of a new Tier, I think this is accually the best comprimise between the we need a lvl increase people and throwing New players a bone as far as content for them. They are giving us a 65-80 expaintion the size of EoF, while newbes get a new race and a zone probly about the size of Neriak/Darklight Woods. Granted I would have prefured a 65-70 expaintion the size of EoF, but you can't please everyone, and I seriously Doupt the we need a higher lvl cap crowed would have sticked around another year for a lvl cap raise, while really I don't know many people that would accually Leave because of a lvl cap raise... they may not like it but they aren't really planing on leaving because of it. </p>

liveja
05-12-2007, 07:50 PM
ke'la wrote: <blockquote><p>Accually the reason for the large number of people leaving when DoF came out accually had NOTHING to do with DoF but infact had everthing to do with the Free content that was launched at the same time as DoF... LU13 also known as the Combate Revamp. </p></blockquote><p>Not to derail the thread, but .... if it hadn't been for the effects of LU13, I would have left this game 2 years ago. At that time, my Swashy was 19th level, & I was struggling to get anything done. I was beginning to think that leaving WoW for EQ2 was a huge mistake. Then, LU13 went live, & I read horrified complaints from people on the forums, & I thought, "O great, here we go!"</p><p>Then I logged in, & discovered that my character could actually kill things, & was actually fun to play. </p>

liveja
05-12-2007, 07:52 PM
<cite>JohnDoe058 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I provide an alternate theory for the exodus that came with DoF.  It involves the following:</p><p>1) All the new landmass was one big, ugly desert</p></blockquote>Your definition of "ugly" is very different from mine. I love the look of the DOF zones, both indoors & out.

Catsy
05-12-2007, 08:10 PM
A lot of people find desert landscape monotonous and ugly. I can understand this. I wouldn't leave a game over it, but I understand it. Still, the dungeons and instanced zones in DoF were wonderful.

rubels
05-13-2007, 08:02 AM
<p>Re : Items </p><p>I honestly seeing most quality of treasured t8 to be roughly about MMC treasure values. This will result more then likely with legendary being equal to roughly standard fabled.</p><p> The reason behind this is look at are current situation. Kos fabled pieces are basicly on par with EoF legendary pieces. I will grant you a vary select few pieces but in general on par. High end pieces ie EoF fabled will be on par with t8 instant zone loot with the new fabled pieces falling into there own place.</p><p>Re :Raiding </p><p>The person above that was trying to compare the loss of raid zones. Currently t6 fabled is 1 x 2 x grouped that being your lowest available content at max cap (forcing green named cons / grey , green trash) this in results in current raid content 74 - 76 to be the next bast choice at 80. See above on item comparisons. The major complaint is the ability to bypass content and limit high end content. Unless this new expansion has a high number of raid zones. You in effect by using the tier system hurt the raiding community by shrinking the number of "progression" raid zones by using a 10 level tier system. </p><p>- Krovax</p>

JohnDoe058
05-13-2007, 11:55 AM
ke'la wrote: <blockquote><cite>JohnDoe058 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I provide an alternate theory for the exodus that came with DoF.  It involves the following:</p><p>1) All the new landmass was one big, ugly desert</p><p>2) Provided no new features of real consequence, or at least none that you'd likely see inside a couple weeks.</p><p>3) Same spell/CA list, with just a couple new additions.  You didn't have the *big* spells/CA's that we get at 50 and 70.</p><p>4) Levelling 50-60 was extremely slow, yet unrewarding.</p><p>5) There was only 1 new zone: a big ugly desert. </p><p>6) Many kinks still to be ironed out; seemed like a hasty release.</p><p>7) Everything was ugly.  Everything.</p><p><img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Did I mention that everything was ugly, and that 100% of the outdoor content was a desert?  I probably did.</p><p> So in short, there are some *possible* alternate reasons that people left when DoF came out (including myself, for 6 months).  Lets be a bit more scientific than saying "The level cap was raised.  People left.  Therefore, people left because the level cap was raised."  That variable is hardly isolated.</p></blockquote><p>Accually the reason for the large number of people leaving when DoF came out accually had NOTHING to do with DoF but infact had everthing to do with the Free content that was launched at the same time as DoF... LU13 also known as the Combate Revamp. </p></blockquote><p>What did i say about being unscientific?  Lol.</p><p>I left because of the expansion, not because of LU13.  That, alone, disproves your point.  While LU13 was a factor, and probably a very large one, it was, ONCE AGAIN, not the ONLY factor.  There were many things that changed at this time, so it's very stupid to try and attribute the exodus to any one thing, while ignoring all other factors.</p>

JohnDoe058
05-13-2007, 12:13 PM
<cite>livejazz wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>JohnDoe058 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I provide an alternate theory for the exodus that came with DoF.  It involves the following:</p><p>1) All the new landmass was one big, ugly desert</p></blockquote>Your definition of "ugly" is very different from mine. I love the look of the DOF zones, both indoors & out.</blockquote><p> Yeah, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  But did everything have to look the same?  The expansion was so monotonous, even if not ugly.  And one big desert zone being 100% of the outdoor content?  And don't try to say "but there were 2 zones...SS and PoF".  I think that we both know better.  It all looked and felt the same.</p><p>Before DoF, each tier had 2-4 distinctly different outdoor zones, the final tier having 4: Lavastorm, Feerrott, Rivervale, and Permafrost.  So when DoF came out...that's a shrinkage of 4 to 1.</p>

Illmarr
05-13-2007, 02:47 PM
<cite>JohnDoe058 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>livejazz wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>JohnDoe058 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I provide an alternate theory for the exodus that came with DoF.  It involves the following:</p><p>1) All the new landmass was one big, ugly desert</p></blockquote>Your definition of "ugly" is very different from mine. I love the look of the DOF zones, both indoors & out.</blockquote><p> Yeah, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  But did everything have to look the same?  The expansion was so monotonous, even if not ugly.  And one big desert zone being 100% of the outdoor content?  And don't try to say "but there were 2 zones...SS and PoF".  I think that we both know better.  It all looked and felt the same.</p><p>Before DoF, each tier had 2-4 distinctly different outdoor zones, the final tier having 4: Lavastorm, Feerrott, Rivervale, and Permafrost.  So when DoF came out...that's a shrinkage of 4 to 1.</p></blockquote><p> I'll say 2 zones because I don't know better. Where is the evidence you have that makes you more well informed? What happened to not being unscientific? Or did I miss the memo that your opinion was the scientific norm?</p><p>One zone was a lot of rolling dunes. one zone was a lot of desert canyons. They shared a color pallette, but did not look the same at all from a terrain standpoint</p><p>Oh, and it was all LU13 that had me on hiatus during the DoF period.</p><p>I wish you well</p>

Godshand13
05-14-2007, 04:59 AM
True.  However any good specialist would have debuffs to follow suit.  Not that any of this would happen.  Besides I get tired of balancing.  Sometimes the best thing is to realize that you rule in some instances and not in others.  That's cool with me.  I may own a mage but get schooled by a rogue.  No worries.  I don't cry about it as long as I have a choice.  (cake and eat it too thing)  Unfortunately the game makes it so with out consulting me...  Guardians are low DPS but can take a beating.  But shouldn't they have ultra high/slow dps that gets dodged often.  A rogue could run circles around them and poke them in knees, but they better hope a blow never lands.  BTW I am an aspiring Game Designer.  Hence my curiosity. Anys, I like expansions.  The Steam Front has a killer atmosphere.  Whom ever put that together did an awesome job!!  I hope the new expansion gives the same feeling.

Vonotar
05-14-2007, 09:35 AM
So raising the cap with obsolete your gear?  boo hoo My highest character 'dinged' level 60 yesterday, for me this is a great achievement for my 1 year of playing Everquest.  Do I care that my level 50-55ish gear is now obsolete and I need to start getting new gear?  No - This is natural progression. The L70 raiders chose to spend hours in raid zones to get uber loot.  obviously you've never helped any lower level friends or guild members since claim never to leave these raid zones and never experience lower level content. Get over the level increase and instead take a good hard look at yourself.  When RoK comes out try, just try, taking it easy, doing quests that have minimal rewards and start exploring! Who am I kidding... you'll be checking all the websites, finding out where to get the best loot (and what zones to ignore) and will grind out the 10 levels in mere weeks.  Then you'll start bleating that you have 'no content'. Sheesh!

Aarin
05-15-2007, 10:12 PM
<p>Well, you have to remember that there are different playstyles.. like myself, for instance.. I hate questing!! I like raiding, I like grouping, I like exploring.. I'm sure SOE will put in enough content to accomodate to everyone, just as they have in the past (for the most part).</p><p>-Aari</p>

liveja
05-15-2007, 10:16 PM
<cite>JohnDoe058 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>livejazz wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>JohnDoe058 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I provide an alternate theory for the exodus that came with DoF.  It involves the following:</p><p>1) All the new landmass was one big, ugly desert</p></blockquote>Your definition of "ugly" is very different from mine. I love the look of the DOF zones, both indoors & out.</blockquote><p> Yeah, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  But did everything have to look the same? </p></blockquote>It was a desert theme. I thought the areas included served the theme well, though I certainly would not have objected if there had been some sort of "tropical" zone as well, with sort of a jungle feel to it. But as it stands, I thought that what was in DOF worked well for the theme presented, & was done well. It's aesthetically pleasing in its own way.

retro_guy
05-16-2007, 03:41 AM
<cite>denboj wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Ppl in my guild are allready starting to talk about how progressing further in tier 7 is absolutely pointless becuase of the +10 lvl cap increase in kunark. Personally i think that there should never have been +10 lvl cap increases. I had the idea that the developers simply wanted the game to catch up on eq1 lvl cap as fast as possible. Also the +10 lvl cap increase is the easyest way to correct mistakes in various mechanics. However at this point the game has grown and the wild changes isnt as needed anymore as they were after the horrible launch. </p><p> When eq1 released omens of war and increased the lvl cap from 65 to 70, the expansion had the reverse effect it should have had. Instead of getting a fealing that the game was made bigger the players had the impression that the game was made smaller. There were only 2-3 xp zones worth doing comming from endless pop and god xp zones and there were only very limited raid content worth doing ocmming from tons of options. </p><p>So all in all. Please reconsider and avoid the lvl increase. If it cant be avoided then at least only make it +5 lvls and not +10. The gab in a 10 lvl increase is simply to big. </p></blockquote> So you're going to just sit around for 5-6 months and do nothing just because the next tier is coming then? Why do you even bother raiding at all? Since the only reason to raid is to get geared up so you're strong enough to take on the next tier, or the more difficult raids in the current tier. It's an endless cycle and gear is always going to be replace eventually. If you like raiding then the reward is getting the rare items to drop and working together as a team to take down the hardest mobs in the game, who cares if the gear is going to be superseeded, it would have been anyway. You've had your expansion that skipped the level increase, now it's time for those who would like an increase to have a turn. You can't have it your way all the time!

MirageKnight
05-16-2007, 02:20 PM
Im also for 75 instead of 80. As many know, due to EH time issue and thus other EoF raids are probably done by very few ppl in EQ2. Making lv80 following current item effectiveness rule set makes lv70 armor set absolete for lv80 players vs lv80+ mobs. So if lv80 is limit then not many will know how EH be like or other EoF contents and not even needed from game as lower tier item effectiveness. Should this be concerned as lv and item effectiveness.

JohnDoe058
05-16-2007, 04:57 PM
[email protected] DLere wrote: <blockquote>One zone was a lot of rolling dunes. one zone was a lot of desert canyons. They shared a color pallette, but did not look the same at all from a terrain standpoint.</blockquote><p>Okay, I'll give you credit on pointing out how the zones differ in some way.  Variety within a single terrain type.  All desert terrain, nevertheless.</p><p>If the next expansion were 2 gigantic sewer zones that were connected directly at several points on the same front, I'd still think of it as one big zone, and it wouldn't matter if one was filled with feces, and the other with urine.  Maybe you would, though, and I guess that's your choice, and your "opinion" wouldn't be "wrong".  </p><p>And when I said that the whole thing was ugly, it was an opinion, not a fact, so science doesn't apply here.  Ugliness is neither quantifiable, nor provable.  When I say that something is ugly, the "to me" part is implicit.  I never said that everyone found it to be ugly.</p>

Deadrus
05-16-2007, 05:18 PM
<p>I saw alot of people Refrenceing live update 13 and that being the reason people left? I dont know why any one would have left because of that. To me LU13 was the Day EQ2 left beta and went Live. Before LU13 The classes were very vauge there wasnt alot of cusotmization. Many people quit playing there necros cuz quite franly before LU13 they sucked but I stuck it out and my Necro is still my main. LU13 is the Day Necros became Necros. In eq1 we got life tap like at lv 2 or 4 before LU 13 we got it like at 48 or something rediculas like that. We didnt have many dots or a decent fear or our snares. LU13 gave us all this and made my class and the rest of the classes unique. I loved how it made my class more like how i remembered it from Eq1. I know some people feel that they got nerfed and it may be the case but it made clearcut differnces in the classes that were more grey beforehand and I'd rather take a little nerfment and be unique then not be nerfed but be exaclty the same as 3 or 4 other classes. </p>

Ganx
05-16-2007, 08:21 PM
<p>My assassin's been 70 since March 06' - more lebels pleeb</p>

Allisia
05-17-2007, 11:45 AM
<cite>Deadrus wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I saw alot of people Refrenceing live update 13 and that being the reason people left? I dont know why any one would have left because of that. To me LU13 was the Day EQ2 left beta and went Live. Before LU13 The classes were very vauge there wasnt alot of cusotmization. Many people quit playing there necros cuz quite franly before LU13 they sucked but I stuck it out and my Necro is still my main. LU13 is the Day Necros became Necros. In eq1 we got life tap like at lv 2 or 4 before LU 13 we got it like at 48 or something rediculas like that. We didnt have many dots or a decent fear or our snares. LU13 gave us all this and made my class and the rest of the classes unique. I loved how it made my class more like how i remembered it from Eq1. I know some people feel that they got nerfed and it may be the case but it made clearcut differnces in the classes that were more grey beforehand and I'd rather take a little nerfment and be unique then not be nerfed but be exaclty the same as 3 or 4 other classes. </p></blockquote> I left after LU13 because the change was to stark and drastic. I liked DoF, but the LU was too much too quickly for me to take. I could tell from one day to the next how many HPs I lost, how much mitigation I lost, and how I couldn't tank mobs that I could before.  You say you'd rather be nerfed and be unique, but you also pointed out that you weren't nerfed. In fact, you were improved and kept your uniqueness. So why would LU13 bother you? LU13 was probably 80% of the reason I left (the other 20% being dissatisfaction with my guild at the time).

Raidi Sovin'faile
05-17-2007, 02:24 PM
<p>I'm totally for a lvl 80 increase. Tier 7 is becoming bloated. EoF did it's job and allowed a large portion of the game to "catch up" and be in the final tier... now it's time to increase to the higher level.</p><p>We <i>need</i> to increase levels because things are becoming stagnant. How many people out there have their 3rd alt mastered out now? How many people have alts up to 70 just so they can zone in and get the "trash" fabled that no one needs anymore.</p><p>We need to expand the levels so we have more room for growth. And it doesn't have to be like tier 7's single ancient teachings. They could just as easily add 5 new ancient spells... some upgrades to the 50s ones, and some totally new ones. Or we could have an all new set of spells and abilities that replace the old ones, giving additional benefits instead of just more of the same. Who knows!</p>

Jennal
05-18-2007, 11:17 AM
I too hated the idea of having to lvl up again, however complaining isn't going to change anything they've already announced the lvl increase to 80.  So, I will suck it up and level.  I do want to say that I believe they brought on the level increases too much too soon compared to old game.  Old game progression went from 50 -60, then 60 -65, 65-70 and so on.  Yes, I realize this isn't the old game, and truthfully I probably would have stuck with the old game if Gates of Discord never came out, but the constant increases on this game are making it hard for smaller guilds who don't raid as much as the huge guilds to keep up, or even to catch up.  There are alot of guilds that can't even raid EoF yet, some have not even beat KoS yet, adding 10 more lvls isn't going to change that. I do like that they are introducing Kunark again and I hope that Vel is next to follow, just please skip Luclan lol.  Would be interesting if they brought in the instances from Ldon though, those were fun, was fun to work to get those adornments.  Oh and isn't about time to introduce ARMOR DYES again please!!!!

dnice74
05-18-2007, 03:51 PM
<cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote>I choose to post in these "lame" threads because I find it more productive than logging into the game right now. Seriously whats the point in playing my main right now? There is not one one goal, not one thing I could be doing right now that would mean anything in a post lvl80 world. This announcement has killed the game for me. Our only hope is that the silent majority that built their toons up through KoS and EoF raise such an uproar that they roll back the level cap increase. </blockquote><p>This post is primarily directed at Aethane, high-five to Novus for this drivel, though.  </p><p> <span style="color: #00cc00">I was going to try to read through this whole thread before I commented, but your posts make me ill. Seriously, I hope you have shut up before I get to the end of this. </span></p><p><span style="color: #00cc00">This expansion isn't coming out for SIX MONTHS. </span></p><p><span style="color: #00cc00">You are going to need THE BEST POSSIBLE GEAR to progess through it. </span></p><p><span style="color: #00cc00">You have no clue who will leave, how people will react, blah blah Chicken Little. </span></p><p><span style="color: #00cc00">The problem? Your attitude is poor. Boo hoo, your guild might not clear EoF before the new expansion. Guess what? YOU CAN STILL DO IT AFTERWARDS. These games are designed with progression in mind. You are suggesting to hundreds of people on these boards that they just give up?? Woo hoo! I'll just shelve my toon for 6 months and then come back! Thanks!</span></p><p><span style="color: #00cc00">I pray your key point in this argument does not apply to your life. </span></p><p><span style="color: #00cc00">"boo hoo, inflation will devalue my money, why bother!"</span></p><p><span style="color: #00cc00">"boo hoo, i'm never going to be as strong as i was at 25, why bother!"</span></p><p><span style="color: #00cc00">"boo hoo, we are all going to die anyway, i quit!"</span></p><p><span style="color: #00cc00">Seriously - this is horrible. I shudder to think what I'm going to read next. Quit spreading your quitter's mentality around the boards. I'm very happy there is a new cap coming out - cause if there wasn't, then your little whines would come true. Wooo, another year with the same spells and AA's! Let's just rework everything and basically kill the same mobs with different graphics! Whhheeeeee!</span></p>

Hojoo01
05-19-2007, 03:46 AM
I think its a great idea to increase lvl.. And to anyone who thinks the level increse of the OOW expansion from EQ1 is what killed it is strongly mistaken... OOW sucked because the trials and raids were insane..people kept getting stuck on zones like uqua and left to other games... Level cap increases are always good. You get plenty of new content and it makes equipment and encounters from previous expansions easier to get for the more casual players.   

ke'la
05-21-2007, 05:28 AM
<p>I was just pointing out the reason most of the "I am leaving threads" and the reason most of the people I hung out with at the time gave for leaving EQ2. I personally loved the changes and my main at the time was an Illusionist, though it was not long befor I changed it to Monk, more because my guild mates out lvled me and I was getting board as a buff bot then anything else though. </p><p>As far as complaining that DESERT of Flames had the 2 Main types of Deserts in it, and there for was monotinous, is to me kinda confusing. I mean goto the American south west, then goto the Sahara Desert are you going to tell me that those to areas are even remotly similar in anyway other then neither of them get much water?</p>

Krikket
05-22-2007, 10:03 PM
Bring on level 80. Heck lets bump it a little and give us more puch it to 90. I have two 70's(and have had them for a while) and will have a 3rd I'm sure before this goes live. I was very dissapointed when I found out EoF would not up the levels. AA's are all fine and good but for me it's the "DING!" /em happy dance, I have been board with having to start yet another toon just to get my fix. But I'll take what I can get. Level 80 will have to work for now, just tell me that the next bump in levels will not be to far behind this one.

ganjookie
05-22-2007, 11:39 PM
<cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote>I choose to post in these "lame" threads because I find it more productive than logging into the game right now. Seriously whats the point in playing my main right now? There is not one one goal, not one thing I could be doing right now that would mean anything in a post lvl80 world. This announcement has killed the game for me. Our only hope is that the<span style="color: #cc0000"> silent majority </span>that built their toons up through KoS and EoF raise such an uproar that they roll back the level cap increase. </blockquote>lol silent majority, thats awesome.  how do you know it's the majority if they are silent? anyhow the levels are raising thank heavens, have fun with it!