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View Full Version : Why do Iksar start in Neriak?


Cragger
05-06-2007, 04:11 PM
Yeah... only breaks a few thousand years of lore. You know the whole skirmishes over the thexian outpost on Kunark. Absolute hatred of each other. Something tells me 500 years of solitude isn't going to make Christanos any more sociable.

initoci
05-06-2007, 04:30 PM
<p>Yea...Im honestly begining to think the game is getting to player friendly and just to much "fun, cute, beauty" etc.  When the game came out there was Qeynos and Freeport....The Good, The Evil....The Beauty, The Ugly.</p><p>I liked that they added this and it seems it was taken away after EoF came out. To much Beauty and Nature (Who needs it?) lol. Loping Plains was the zone to take that away from the expansion and it didnt give me the feeling like it was dark...they should give it a little revamp and make it into an Unrest atmosphere. That is dark and scary.</p><p>One more thing....My theory of the destruction in Norrath was from the Fae's cuteness.</p>

Xev
05-06-2007, 04:33 PM
[email protected] Bayle wrote: <blockquote>Yeah... only breaks a few thousand years of lore. You know the whole skirmishes over the thexian outpost on Kunark. Absolute hatred of each other. Something tells me 500 years of solitude isn't going to make Christanos any more sociable. </blockquote>I can understand the practical reason for Iksar starting there (e.g., letting players make them there for ease of use/gameplay reasons), I could see this being a problem for the Lore.  Perhaps they are allowed there more for necessity...maybe that since the cataclysm, things have changed so much, they are reluctantly welcoming more people to help bring power back to Neriak.  Or maybe it has something to do with the Arasai.  Or it simply could be that since things changed so much over the last 500 years, all of the evil races have to work together more and have more contact with one another than they'd like simply because they need to in order to keep functioning and rival Qeynos and the good races.  Be interesting to see a dev response <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Maroger
05-06-2007, 04:38 PM
<cite>Xevik wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] Bayle wrote: <blockquote>Yeah... only breaks a few thousand years of lore. You know the whole skirmishes over the thexian outpost on Kunark. Absolute hatred of each other. Something tells me 500 years of solitude isn't going to make Christanos any more sociable. </blockquote>I can understand the practical reason for Iksar starting there (e.g., letting players make them there for ease of use/gameplay reasons), I could see this being a problem for the Lore.  Perhaps they are allowed there more for necessity...maybe that since the cataclysm, things have changed so much, they are reluctantly welcoming more people to help bring power back to Neriak.  Or maybe it has something to do with the Arasai.  Or it simply could be that since things changed so much over the last 500 years, all of the evil races have to work together more and have more contact with one another than they'd like simply because they need to in order to keep functioning and rival Qeynos and the good races.  Be interesting to see a dev response <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote><p>I think the lore is irrelevant to the Game Deign. I think the developers make up the Lore AFTER they do the Game Design. It is rather silly on the whole. </p><p>They broke all the lore when they built Neriak - because they made Neriak on the cheap with warmed over models, and forced the lore to correspond to the Game design. A bad way to go. </p>

Xev
05-06-2007, 04:45 PM
<cite>Maroger wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xevik wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] Bayle wrote: <blockquote>Yeah... only breaks a few thousand years of lore. You know the whole skirmishes over the thexian outpost on Kunark. Absolute hatred of each other. Something tells me 500 years of solitude isn't going to make Christanos any more sociable. </blockquote>I can understand the practical reason for Iksar starting there (e.g., letting players make them there for ease of use/gameplay reasons), I could see this being a problem for the Lore.  Perhaps they are allowed there more for necessity...maybe that since the cataclysm, things have changed so much, they are reluctantly welcoming more people to help bring power back to Neriak.  Or maybe it has something to do with the Arasai.  Or it simply could be that since things changed so much over the last 500 years, all of the evil races have to work together more and have more contact with one another than they'd like simply because they need to in order to keep functioning and rival Qeynos and the good races.  Be interesting to see a dev response <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote><p>I think the lore is irrelevant to the Game Deign. I think the developers make up the Lore AFTER they do the Game Design. It is rather silly on the whole. </p><p>They broke all the lore when they built Neriak - because they made Neriak on the cheap with warmed over models, and forced the lore to correspond to the Game design. A bad way to go. </p></blockquote>I see what you're saying, but I can also see their position.  There is just no way for them to feasibly create new content all the time that completely adheres to the old lore or doesn't require them to create new lore.  You're right in that I too believe they make up a lot of the lore after designing the content, as that is probably the easier way to do it and allows them to add what they want to add to the game. If all they went by was the original Lore from EQ 1 or from EQ2 at the start of the game, we wouldn't have new races or new areas to explore...so they kind of have to just decide what they want to make and then decide if they can make it fit in reasonably well with the lore of the game.  Even though they have to change past lore sometimes or make up new lore that seems kind of sketchy, at least they are trying to create a pretty coherent sense of lore, scope and story rather than just adding a bunch of new stuff without giving any sort of reasonable explanation for it or not adding new and creative content because it doesn't fit the lore. In a sense, they are kind of damned if they do, damned if they don't, so just have to do what they think will please a larger portion of the playerbase and give them more room to develop different aspects of the game and content for the future.

initoci
05-06-2007, 04:47 PM
They did that with EQ1 right?

Maroger
05-06-2007, 04:54 PM
<cite>Xevik wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Maroger wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xevik wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] Bayle wrote: <blockquote>Yeah... only breaks a few thousand years of lore. You know the whole skirmishes over the thexian outpost on Kunark. Absolute hatred of each other. Something tells me 500 years of solitude isn't going to make Christanos any more sociable. </blockquote>I can understand the practical reason for Iksar starting there (e.g., letting players make them there for ease of use/gameplay reasons), I could see this being a problem for the Lore.  Perhaps they are allowed there more for necessity...maybe that since the cataclysm, things have changed so much, they are reluctantly welcoming more people to help bring power back to Neriak.  Or maybe it has something to do with the Arasai.  Or it simply could be that since things changed so much over the last 500 years, all of the evil races have to work together more and have more contact with one another than they'd like simply because they need to in order to keep functioning and rival Qeynos and the good races.  Be interesting to see a dev response <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote><p>I think the lore is irrelevant to the Game Deign. I think the developers make up the Lore AFTER they do the Game Design. It is rather silly on the whole. </p><p>They broke all the lore when they built Neriak - because they made Neriak on the cheap with warmed over models, and forced the lore to correspond to the Game design. A bad way to go. </p></blockquote>I see what you're saying, but I can also see their position.  There is just no way for them to feasibly create new content all the time that completely adheres to the old lore or doesn't require them to create new lore.  You're right in that I too believe they make up a lot of the lore after designing the content, as that is probably the easier way to do it and allows them to add what they want to add to the game. If all they went by was the original Lore from EQ 1 or from EQ2 at the start of the game, we wouldn't have new races or new areas to explore...so they kind of have to just decide what they want to make and then decide if they can make it fit in reasonably well with the lore of the game.  Even though they have to change past lore sometimes or make up new lore that seems kind of sketchy, at least they are trying to create a pretty coherent sense of lore, scope and story rather than just adding a bunch of new stuff without giving any sort of reasonable explanation for it or not adding new and creative content because it doesn't fit the lore. In a sense, they are kind of damned if they do, damned if they don't, so just have to do what they think will please a larger portion of the playerbase and give them more room to develop different aspects of the game and content for the future. </blockquote><p>Yes but I think certain areas of the game should compel them to adhered more to the Lore from EQL. I mean they went out of their way to make Faydwer pretty much correspond to EQL -- sure there were changes like Kelethin and Ak'a'Non -- but at least they lore they made up was reasonally plausible.</p><p>What they did with Neriak was not even plausible -- they rather [Removed for Content] the Lore of Neriak in both design and story. It is an absolute abomination. I hope they don't [Removed for Content] Cabilis as they did Neriak.</p><p>I honestly think that for those who played EQL for many years these twisted attempts at Lore made up on the fly after the Game Design -- really insult long time players of EQL. I think they should make more of an effort to have more uniformity. Sure 500 years have elapsed but that doesn't mean that that all the Lore was ripped up too. Changes like Kelethin and Ak'a'Non were more plausible than what they currently are doing. </p>

Xev
05-06-2007, 05:04 PM
<cite>Maroger wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xevik wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Maroger wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xevik wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] Bayle wrote: <blockquote>Yeah... only breaks a few thousand years of lore. You know the whole skirmishes over the thexian outpost on Kunark. Absolute hatred of each other. Something tells me 500 years of solitude isn't going to make Christanos any more sociable. </blockquote>I can understand the practical reason for Iksar starting there (e.g., letting players make them there for ease of use/gameplay reasons), I could see this being a problem for the Lore.  Perhaps they are allowed there more for necessity...maybe that since the cataclysm, things have changed so much, they are reluctantly welcoming more people to help bring power back to Neriak.  Or maybe it has something to do with the Arasai.  Or it simply could be that since things changed so much over the last 500 years, all of the evil races have to work together more and have more contact with one another than they'd like simply because they need to in order to keep functioning and rival Qeynos and the good races.  Be interesting to see a dev response <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote><p>I think the lore is irrelevant to the Game Deign. I think the developers make up the Lore AFTER they do the Game Design. It is rather silly on the whole. </p><p>They broke all the lore when they built Neriak - because they made Neriak on the cheap with warmed over models, and forced the lore to correspond to the Game design. A bad way to go. </p></blockquote>I see what you're saying, but I can also see their position.  There is just no way for them to feasibly create new content all the time that completely adheres to the old lore or doesn't require them to create new lore.  You're right in that I too believe they make up a lot of the lore after designing the content, as that is probably the easier way to do it and allows them to add what they want to add to the game. If all they went by was the original Lore from EQ 1 or from EQ2 at the start of the game, we wouldn't have new races or new areas to explore...so they kind of have to just decide what they want to make and then decide if they can make it fit in reasonably well with the lore of the game.  Even though they have to change past lore sometimes or make up new lore that seems kind of sketchy, at least they are trying to create a pretty coherent sense of lore, scope and story rather than just adding a bunch of new stuff without giving any sort of reasonable explanation for it or not adding new and creative content because it doesn't fit the lore. In a sense, they are kind of damned if they do, damned if they don't, so just have to do what they think will please a larger portion of the playerbase and give them more room to develop different aspects of the game and content for the future. </blockquote><p>Yes but I think certain areas of the game should compel them to adhered more to the Lore from EQL. I mean they went out of their way to make Faydwer pretty much correspond to EQL -- sure there were changes like Kelethin and Ak'a'Non -- but at least they lore they made up was reasonally plausible.</p><p>What they did with Neriak was not even plausible -- they rather [I cannot control my vocabulary] the Lore of Neriak in both design and story. It is an absolute abomination. I hope they don't [I cannot control my vocabulary] Cabilis as they did Neriak.</p><p>I honestly think that for those who played EQL for many years these twisted attempts at Lore made up on the fly after the Game Design -- really insult long time players of EQL. I think they should make more of an effort to have more uniformity. Sure 500 years have elapsed but that doesn't mean that that all the Lore was ripped up too. Changes like Kelethin and Ak'a'Non were more plausible than what they currently are doing. </p></blockquote>Honestly, I can't comment on how much different it is from the original lore as I wasn't an avid EQ1 player, but if it is a very big change, as it seems to be, then I can certainly understand why this bothers you.  The point I was trying to make above was that, sometimes, they just have to make changes that go against the original lore and such in order to make the game the most playable and enjoyable for the largest number of players. It sucks that they have to do this sometimes, because for those of you who have been playing since eq1 first came out, it seems like they are just [Removed for Content] on the lore, but I don't think they are doing so out of laziness or lack of concern about how the long time players will feel about it, I think they do this because they have to either due to time constraints or lack of funding or because they sometimes just have to make drastic changes to make the game as a whole more playable or allow for them to add more content now and down the road. And I also think that part of the reason they made this game set 500 years in the future was so they wouldn't be limited by the lore from EQ1 as much.  500 years is a long time and given that time frame as well as the events that lead up to the story of EQ2, they really should have a lot more liberty in how they handle the story and content, even if it is different from EQ live. I certainly understand your frustration though and I'm not trying to tell you that you are wrong to be upset about the change, I just think that, from their perspective, the changes they make to lore sometimes are necessary for the betterment of the game and the community playing it as a whole...unfortunately that comes at the expense of some of the long time players.  <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Cusashorn
05-06-2007, 07:01 PM
<p>In regards to the iksar: Times change. After the Rending occured, The iksar had become a slave race to Lucan. They only gained thier freedom during the 2nd Rallosian War.</p><p>Now that time has passed, and the Iksar culture has been forced to change thier ways and cooperate with other races, maybe some of them decided they could seek out better opportunities in Neriak, where they could forget thier race's tragic past and live a life where you dont have your former enslaver watching your every move.</p><p>They didn't throw the lore out the window. They just haven't introduced anything new yet.</p>

DrkVsr
05-06-2007, 07:18 PM
<p><span style="font-size: small"><span style="color: #993300">No, ah really don't see that a cold-blooded race (literally) would change after centuries of forced servitude</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: small"><span style="color: #993300">If they made K-Town only have races who originally called Faydwer home could <i><u>start</u></i> there, they should have made the same thing with Neriak, ie only Dark Elves and Trolls (maybe Ogres) could <i><u>start</u></i> there, any of the others could move after proving their loyalty maybe but not start</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: small"><span style="color: #993300">Personally ah feel only Dark Elves should ever be able to call Neriak home (ie buy a house, etc) everyone else can just visit</span></span></p>

Xev
05-06-2007, 07:51 PM
<cite>Maroger wrote:</cite><blockquote> <p>I think the only reason some people naively point out that the EQL Neriak had an oriental look was the Lodge of the Dead with a large red wall - but the sliding doors had designs on it similar to Egyptian Hieroglyphs.</p><p>The rest of Neriak NEVER has an oriental look. The were solidy building - mostly carved out of the rock or looking like carved rock. And some were fairly standard building like the Silk Undersground and the Bowyer in Neriak Commons. The bank was in the Underground and the Underground in Neriak today thinks it can get away with warmed over outdoor stalls taken from Fallen gate. The Real Underground had individual shops, beautiful vases, and a wonderful bar called the BLIND FISH where when you went to the lower level you had windows that looked out on an underwater scene and you could actually see things swimming in the underwater. What did they do here -- stole the Blind Fish name and turned it into a guild registration hall - what an insult to one of my favorite Neriak locations. </p><p><u>So no it doesn't feel the same at all - and if you think it doesn't then you haven't played EQL much</u> -- all my characters were Dark Elves and they all started in Neriak and I just loved Neriak. The new Neriak is an ugly and twisted distortion of the beauty that was the old Neriak. </p><p>You can't take models from Fallen Gate and Fallen Dynasty and colore them blue and purple and call it NERIAK-- not if you ever played in the original. If they could do this to Neriak why didn't they do it to Kelethin - nothing sacred about Kelethin either for that matter. </p><p>Kelethin got their old music back we couldn't even have that!!!<img src="/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p></blockquote>Well actually there were glyphs on the walls or doors that were very similar to taoist symbols (by very similar I mean nearly identical), which is an asian philosophy/religion.  If the rest of it is different from Neriak, well, so be it.  God forbid they don't make it identical to the design of Neriak from EQ1 which was made what? Ten years ago?  The new one is still very similar to the original, has some similarities in architecture and has the same basic feel to it.  And honestly being that the whole place was destroyed 500 years ago, there is nothing that says it has to be identical to what it used to be. I know Kelethin was very much the same, but so what?  Maybe they weren't happy with the design of Neriak or maybe they wanted to give it more asian style architecture to help set it apart from other cities even more. Oh and I like how you tell me above that my opinion isn't valid.  Who are you to say how I should and shouldn't feel about it?  Just because I feel differently than you doesn't make me wrong. It may not be perfect, it may not be exactly the same, but that's fine, I honestly don't think most people are going to be looking at it down to the last detail and getting [Removed for Content] off because they made some slight changes.  If they are too much for you to handle, you can always go back to EQ1 and play it there.  I'm just amazed at how negative you are being about this update given that it isn't costing us anything.  If there are specific things you want changed, then point those out constructively in a forum the devs read, but just whining about it like it's the end of the world and pouting because it isn't tailored to your exact specifications isn't going to win you any fans.

Kryussius
05-06-2007, 08:21 PM
I have to agree.  Iksar starting in Neriak makes no sense.  There's reason behind why they're stuck in Freeport, just as there's reason why Teir'Dal start there.  After so long in seculsion, why would Christanos allow a race like the Iksar to take up root in Neriak?  I don't think it's a major issue, but it would be nice to have some kind of reasoning behind it, like there was when the Trolls were suddenly based out of Neriak in EQL.

Cocytus
05-06-2007, 09:41 PM
<p>Does it make sense lore-wise? Not really.</p><p> Does it make sense gameplay-wise? Perfect sense.</p><p>Let's look at the balance -</p><p> Kelethin: Good races ONLY.</p><p>Qeynos: Good and neutral races.</p><p>Freeport: Evil and neutral races.</p><p>Neriak: Evil races ONLY.</p>

Severite
05-06-2007, 09:45 PM
Not quite, Kelethin allows dwf, HE, gnm, fae, WE, and half-elf..............4 good and 2 neutral, Neriak allows the basic evil races

Cusashorn
05-06-2007, 09:46 PM
Like I said, the lore hasn't been written yet. It doesn't defile everything that already exists of the Iksar's Lore. It's just a new chapter that, given the current trend of ignoring racial lore, will never be revealed.

Cocytus
05-06-2007, 11:38 PM
Ah...I take that back then. I overlooked the two neutral races of Kelethin.

Gungo
05-07-2007, 01:58 PM
<p>I highly doubt cabalis will be a friendly city with the release of kunark. </p><p>The main reason although true iksar hated everyone. The main ruler of kunark has returned. In eq1 Venril Sathir was raised from the dead as a lich king. And was already amassing a very large army to retake kunark. with the shattering and 500 years i am quite sure he has a VERY strong hold on his kingdom once again. Venril Sathis hated EVERYONE including many iksars that betrayed him long ago. We are talking about a being so powerful he enslaved a frogluck nation, created a flying army of dragon/iksar men. Subjugated a nation of Draogs and molemen (burnai), Conquered the surrounding giants, and almsot defeated the ring of scale. A very old now probably deceased dragon trakanon was probably the only reason he didn't succeed. Venril Sathir was raised from the dead, he had the largest skeleton army known, a general in kurns tower (who was also a vampire) already at his disposal 500 years ago.</p><p>I somehow don't think this will be a very friendly expansion. </p>

Themaginator
05-07-2007, 02:33 PM
they still haven't screwed up the lore,  the cataclysms changed a lot...

Gasheron
05-07-2007, 06:26 PM
<p>ummm first thing, a question. Can frogloks start in Kelethin? I've nevr really checked, but I didn't think they could since frogloks have never had any real presence on Faydwer, and they really dont seem to be the type to live up in the trees. Frogloks are a good-only race too, so if I'm right, the devs did not design Kelethin to be filled with all of the good-only races.</p><p>Second, its not just about Cristanos hating Iksar, but the fact that Iksar didn't live in Neriak before it was sealed, and when Neriak "opens," i don't see how they can explain a race being able to start in a city that they couldn't even possibly be a resident of until it was first opened. Also, Iksar hate all other races, and have so since, well, forever. The only reason that they've been in Freeport is because they cannot get back to Kunark and their own kind. Why would an Iksar go from serving under one hated ruler to another?</p><p>Honestly, Iksar living in Neriak isn't much of an issue for me. However, Iksar STARTING in Neriak just makes no sense whatsoever. </p><p> *EDIT* and as a response to the events of the past 500 years changing everything, how long did the Iksar suffer under the enslavement of the Shissar? </p><p>I dont think that 500 years under Lucan is going to change much about the Iksar attitude and traditions. Honestly, how many Iksar do u think will stay in Freeport after Kunark is rediscovered? I would not be surprised if the numbers of Iksar residents went down by at least 90% if Lucan allows them to go without putting up a fight, which he probably will.</p>

Severite
05-08-2007, 02:42 AM
<p>Frogs cannot, halflings cannot, the ones who can were in faydwer in the first place...........</p><p>and I agree, it doesn't make sense to me to allow iksar in Neriak as a starting race, HOWEVER, it does make my iksar nec that much easier to create, as FP zone design annoys me to no end.</p><p>changed my answer from I think the ones....   to the ones, as I have no doubt............</p>

daboa
05-08-2007, 05:05 AM
<p>They broke the lore of Iksar the day they had them start in the city of freeport.  Iksar were natualy neutral creature neither hating nor liking any other race prefering to stick to there own kind.  But that dident fit with the story.  Besides i seriosly doubt many iksar now a days would have any memory of the fights that took place in there anchient homelands.  Can you remember where your family liniage in RL was 500 years ago?</p><p>To role play an iksar correctly you shouldent be affiliated with any city at all, merely useing them for the benfits, hardly visiting them and living off the land in solitude. </p>

Cusashorn
05-08-2007, 11:45 AM
<cite>daboa wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>They broke the lore of Iksar the day they had them start in the city of freeport.  Iksar were natualy neutral creature neither hating nor liking any other race prefering to stick to there own kind.  But that dident fit with the story.  Besides i seriosly doubt many iksar now a days would have any memory of the fights that took place in there anchient homelands.  Can you remember where your family liniage in RL was 500 years ago?</p></blockquote> You should read loremaster Vhalen's posts then. He explains why the iksar were *FORCED* to live there. They were enslaved by Lucan himself, and only gained thier freedom by helping defend Freeport during the 2nd Rallosian War.

Cocytus
05-08-2007, 08:47 PM
<p>Oh, since I've seen it mispelled a number of times here and in-game...</p><p>Hey devs. Heads up.</p><p><span style="font-size: xx-large"><span style="color: #ff0000">IT'S SPELLED <b><i><u>CABILIS</u></i></b>, NOT <i>CABALIS</i>.</span></span></p>

Kryussius
05-08-2007, 10:12 PM
<cite>daboa wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Can you remember where your family liniage in RL was 500 years ago?</p></blockquote>You're thinking like a human.  It's not a mindset that applies to Iksar. Iksar survived centuries of enslavement and countless wars by becoming a unified race against all others.  You can bet that while you may not know your lineage from 500 years ago, the average Iksar can recount his/her family line back through multiple generations.  That kind of information would be extremely important to them to protect and keep intact - especially given their current forced exile in Freeport.

liveja
05-08-2007, 10:56 PM
daboa wrote: <blockquote><p>Iksar were natualy neutral creature neither hating nor liking any other race</p></blockquote> IIRC, that's false. The Iksar as originally portrayed in the old Kunark hated & were hated by everyone that wasn't Iksar.

DrkVsr
05-08-2007, 11:15 PM
<cite>livejazz wrote:</cite><blockquote>daboa wrote: <blockquote><p>Iksar were natualy neutral creature neither hating nor liking any other race</p></blockquote> IIRC, that's false. The Iksar as originally portrayed in the old Kunark hated & were hated by everyone that wasn't Iksar.</blockquote> <span style="font-size: small"><span style="color: #993300">Yup, the lizards hated everyone that was soft skined, which basically meant everyone non-Iksar (oh, and they hated the Shissar as well <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />), it was the Var Shir/kitties who were neutral (they even tolerated the lizards)</span></span>

daboa
05-08-2007, 11:24 PM
<p>Actualy if you do most of the kurnark quests including the monk epic in EQ1 it portreys iksar as a race of seclusion stating they don like other people and other people do not like them.  But iksar would prefer to ignor other races vs. confrontation of any sort with them.  They don really hate them. Just want to avoid them. Others races hated the iksar far more then the Iksar hated them.  All and all they were more neutral then other races of the world (Dark elves for example).  Iksar are lizard based and as stated in many noob quest when kurnark came out barly ever knew there parents or gave 2cents about there family history other then a races insticnt to stay in seclusion with only ones of there kind. They cared for history as a race.  But not individuel.  So when there historicle leaders and followers are no longer there to guide them.  After the cataclysum they really forgot the old cabulis.  You were the one thinking like a human.  There lizards not humans. </p><p> All the wars iksars fought were to gain their freedom they never planned or wanted to invade or conquer other realms. Further more ruining the ill fated attempt by the devopers to put them back in the setting of enslavement under the overlord. over all there "lore" was changed and or ruined in the advent of EQ2. really no biggie <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> So I am not surprized they start in nek, nor do i even care.</p>

Kryussius
05-08-2007, 11:58 PM
Iksar were born in clutches if I remember correctly.  Doesn't mean they didn't know their parents. I hold up the entire story about Venril Sathir and his later sons as example.  As a culture and as individuals, they know who their forebearers are.  Iksar are lizards, true.  But they're not your average iguana.  They still had bloodlines and families with lineages that traced back through all the castes. I also think you're off in thinking that the Iksar were neutral.  They were *extremely* xenophobic, and killing any and all other races on sight would tend to put a hole in your theory. The judgement of good or evil is one of point of view - the Iksar wouldn't see themselves as evil any more than the Teir'Dal would.  But calling them neutral and just wanting to be left alone as to avoid all conflict is off base.

Gasheron
05-09-2007, 01:10 AM
<p>First off, the Iksar were conquerors (sp?) and did start many fights in their quests to take over Kunark. Hell, they even enslaved an entire nation of frogloks. They did attempt to conquer, and did so until they were brought into conflict with the dragons. Simple Iksar history. It's called the Sebilisian Empire.</p><p>Secondly, the Iksar <u>hated</u> all other races, but they never left Kunark. Up until the High Elves established the outpost of Firiona Vie, the Iksar had no idea the more common races existed, and once the outpost was established, the Iksar came into immediate conflict with the elves, even going so far as to plan an invasion of Faydwer from an outpost named Visk. It was while the Iksar were sending troops to Visk for their assault that the shattering occured, and the Iksar that were washed ashore near Freeport from the shipwrecks are the ancestors of the Iksar that we play in EQ2. The Iksar did endeavour to avoid unnecessary conflict to some extent, but they hated the other races nonetheless.</p><p>lastly, when I mentioned the Iksar not changing after 500 years, I said the Iksar attitude and traditions, not their memory of their family lineage. The idea of Iksar hating all softskins, and only believing in their own strength. Their beliefs in the Greenmist and their superiority over the other races. Their will to strive through enslavement and break out from under their masters. 500 years under Lucan's enslavement would be nothing compared to the Iksar suffering under the Shissar, and thus would barely affect the Iksar attitude, so those 500 years cannot be used as an excuse for the Iksar starting in Neriak. So far the only real change that has been made to the Iksar belief system is that many Iksar no longer believe in Cazic Thule because he left Norrath, and when the Greenmist came during the Rallosian War, a face other than that of Cazic's was seen in the [ich kann mich gerade nicht beherrschen]. This is a lore add in from the devs, and so far hasn't actually had any effect on the game.</p><p>I do agree with the point from earlier though about Iksar being unaffiliated with any city, but instead using them for their own benefits. I roleplay an Iksar Monk on AB who serves Qeynos because he has more freedom to do what he chooses to do by simply showing some loyalty. Much better than serving under a man who tried to re-enslave your race.</p>

Cusashorn
05-09-2007, 02:43 AM
<cite>DrkVsr wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>livejazz wrote:</cite><blockquote>daboa wrote: <blockquote><p>Iksar were natualy neutral creature neither hating nor liking any other race</p></blockquote> IIRC, that's false. The Iksar as originally portrayed in the old Kunark hated & were hated by everyone that wasn't Iksar.</blockquote> <span style="font-size: small"><span style="color: #993300">Yup, the lizards hated everyone that was soft skined, which basically meant everyone non-Iksar (oh, and they hated the Shissar as well <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />), it was the Var Shir/kitties who were neutral (they even tolerated the lizards)</span></span></blockquote> And the Dragons, and the Sarnak, and the Kly, and the Scorpikis, and...

WodinAu
05-09-2007, 02:50 AM
<cite>Gasheron wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I do agree with the point from earlier though about Iksar being unaffiliated with any city, but instead using them for their own benefits. I roleplay an Iksar Monk on AB who serves Qeynos because he has more freedom to do what he chooses to do by simply showing some loyalty. Much better than serving under a man who tried to re-enslave your race.</p></blockquote> Wouldn't that then give a plausible reason as to why some Iksar are now in Neriak? Because they feel they have more freedom.

Gasheron
05-09-2007, 11:11 AM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><cite>Gasheron wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I do agree with the point from earlier though about Iksar being unaffiliated with any city, but instead using them for their own benefits. I roleplay an Iksar Monk on AB who serves Qeynos because he has more freedom to do what he chooses to do by simply showing some loyalty. Much better than serving under a man who tried to re-enslave your race.</p></blockquote> Wouldn't that then give a plausible reason as to why some Iksar are now in Neriak? Because they feel they have more freedom.</blockquote><p> Yes, it would be a plausible reason for some Iksar to live in Neriak. I'm not saying that Iksar shouldn't be able to live in Neriek. I have no problem with Iksar betraying other cities to live among the DEs and Arasai. However, they shouldn't be able to START in Neriak. To start in Neriak implies that Iksar resided in Neriak before it was "opened," which is untrue and makes no sense. Neriak has been sealed for nearly the past 500 years, and before it was sealed, no Iksar resided within the city, only DEs, Trolls and some Ogres. Therefore, there has been no Iksar presence in the city within the last 500 years.</p><p>The only way I'll accept Iksar starting in Neriak is if the Devs come up with one hell of a good piece of lore about it. I mean Tolkien quality kind of story.</p>

Cusashorn
05-09-2007, 11:23 AM
<cite>Gasheron wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><cite>Gasheron wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I do agree with the point from earlier though about Iksar being unaffiliated with any city, but instead using them for their own benefits. I roleplay an Iksar Monk on AB who serves Qeynos because he has more freedom to do what he chooses to do by simply showing some loyalty. Much better than serving under a man who tried to re-enslave your race.</p></blockquote> Wouldn't that then give a plausible reason as to why some Iksar are now in Neriak? Because they feel they have more freedom.</blockquote><p> Yes, it would be a plausible reason for some Iksar to live in Neriak. I'm not saying that Iksar shouldn't be able to live in Neriek. I have no problem with Iksar betraying other cities to live among the DEs and Arasai. However, they shouldn't be able to START in Neriak. To start in Neriak implies that Iksar resided in Neriak before it was "opened," which is untrue and makes no sense. Neriak has been sealed for nearly the past 500 years, and before it was sealed, no Iksar resided within the city, only DEs, Trolls and some Ogres. Therefore, there has been no Iksar presence in the city within the last 500 years.</p><p>The only way I'll accept Iksar starting in Neriak is if the Devs come up with one hell of a good piece of lore about it. I mean Tolkien quality kind of story.</p></blockquote> Well then you're going to have to accept the fact that the iksar start in Neriak, because they've been seriously skimping on the epic quality racial lore these last few months. It's not like the Iksar are back in the limelight just because of one city.

Zarafein
05-09-2007, 11:38 AM
<cite>Gasheron wrote:</cite><blockquote>However, they shouldn't be able to START in Neriak. To start in Neriak implies that Iksar resided in Neriak before it was "opened," which is untrue and makes no sense. </blockquote><p> Why? If you start in Qeynos or Freeport doesn't mean you lived there all the time,especially if your background followes the game, then you start on an isle and start to live in the city at the moment you take the ship. If you choose Neriak at character creation you don't start in the city, your in a small village which wasn't in the sealed neriak all the time. </p>

Gasheron
05-10-2007, 12:30 AM
<p>*yawn* I guess I'm not really explaining this well enough.</p><p>Do you think that Ogres should start in Qeynos? or that Frogloks should start in Freeport? How about Trolls starting in Kelethin?</p><p>And why do these things make no sense? Because the races do not have a part in that city, and are not residents of that city as a race. This does not stop them from betraying to live in that city, but they cannot start in these cities because there is no racial presence. As such, there is no Iksar racial presence in Neriak. There is no way that they can explain a racial presence in Neriak without taking a huge rewrite of currently known lore. Neriak was sealed 500 years ago, at which time there was no racial presence of Iksar. Since that hasn't changed over the last 500 years, there is still no racial presence of Iksar within the city, and thus Iksar should not be able to start there.</p><p>Iksar starting in Neriak makes as much sense as Frogloks starting in Kelethin, which is none.</p>

WodinAu
05-10-2007, 10:42 PM
<cite>Gasheron wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>*yawn* I guess I'm not really explaining this well enough.</p><p>Do you think that Ogres should start in Qeynos? or that Frogloks should start in Freeport? How about Trolls starting in Kelethin?</p><p>And why do these things make no sense? Because the races do not have a part in that city, and are not residents of that city as a race. This does not stop them from betraying to live in that city, but they cannot start in these cities because there is no racial presence. As such, there is no Iksar racial presence in Neriak. There is no way that they can explain a racial presence in Neriak without taking a huge rewrite of currently known lore. Neriak was sealed 500 years ago, at which time there was no racial presence of Iksar. Since that hasn't changed over the last 500 years, there is still no racial presence of Iksar within the city, and thus Iksar should not be able to start there.</p><p>Iksar starting in Neriak makes as much sense as Frogloks starting in Kelethin, which is none.</p></blockquote><p>Actually I have to agree with you.. IF you start your adventure in EQ2 as a Newborn baby/hatchling/bud then yes Starting in Neriak would be wrong for Iksar.</p><p>BUT we dont start as babys/hatchlings/buds, we start as fully grown <insert race here>.  And to add to that we dont even start in Neriak.</p><p>So apart from agreeing that Iksar shouldnt be born in Neriak (which they are not)  I am failing to see how that has any effect on Iksar (OR Ratonga mind you) from starting in a village in the Darklight Woods? </p>

ke'la
05-11-2007, 02:53 AM
Accually even for the Arasai who where created in Neriak, you start in Darklight Woods and are treated more like a "vistor from afar" then someone accually "from" Neriak. As such just like with FP and Qeynos if you accually follow the game lore you where not born in the city you are from the city. As far as to why certain races don't make sence for certain cities its because the Qeynosains are Racist, the boat to the Queen's Isle saw your Scaly Hide floating in the water and just passed you by because your "evil" while they go and pick up that "good" frog. On the other hand the reason the Goodie Twoshoes don't start in FP is because when they found out that thier resquer was from FP and a servent of Lucian they got all High and Mighty and jumped off the boat to wait for the "noble" vessels of Qeynos.

Xs-142
05-11-2007, 06:15 AM
Why's everyone in this thread a Lord or Loremaster..?

Drewx
05-11-2007, 11:07 AM
<p>I can understand Ratonga starting as they are a digging race, and they also make good food for the vampires.</p><p>Iksar however...the race still has some pride and they already resent their life in Freeport...or in other words bowing to a human. But unfortunately despite the simularity in conquest and evil power between the Dark Elves and Iksar...I CANNOT see the Iksar bowing before the Dark Elves. It makes no sense at all. Nor would it ever happen. The Iksar haven't fallen from their throne and gotten so desperate as to grovel to the Dark Elves.</p><p>The Trolls have always feared the Dark Elves and also took refuge in neriak upon losing Grobb... The Ogres? I don't remember them ever starting or wishing to start in Neriak. I think SOE is doing this to balance Neriak with Kelethin but with Kelethin they followed the lore pretty much. I feel they should do the same with Neriak. It's not like Neriak and Freeport are smack next to each other... *Whistles with a slight tone of irritation*</p>

Kitsune286
05-12-2007, 02:10 AM
Perhaps the Iksar are binding their time, waiting for something... Who knows. Maybe they simply went to Neriak so they wouldn't be living in Freeport anymore. I know a few of my rats will be moving as I'm tired of seeing that run-down city, heh. And I don't think vampires want to drink on rat blood. Do you know what sewers my rats have been in? yuck!

Draknishar
05-12-2007, 03:00 AM
ok lets assume that iksars hate everyone and wouldnt want to live with dark elves or switch from serving one tyrant to the next what about the dark elf attitude towards all this? Iksars were still killed on sight in neriak back in eq1 and well if anyone hates everyone its the dark elves <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I would see the iksar being allowed some pressence in neriak ( the foreign quarter? ) because they swore loyalty to our queen but by no means do I think they would ever be considered to be as much part of neriak as the dark elves, this goes for any other race. Even dark elves going outside the dark elf society standards by practicing an arcane art other than necromancy is considered lower than the rest. "Neriak avenue, paved with good intentions"

Vonotar
05-15-2007, 12:08 PM
Ok, lets switch this discussion around, negative never gets anywhere. Kelethin had 4 Good races and 2 Neutral.  So if we want the same for Neriak the real question becomes, which 1-2 of the neutral races should be able to start in Neriak instead of the Iksar (and perhaps 1 other evil race). There is still time before this goes live afterall... P.S. Lets rule out Gnome and Half-Elf as these are the two neutrals allowed to start in Kelethin.

Seraki
05-15-2007, 12:38 PM
<p>No iksars in Neriak please.   It should be limited to races that started there before the age of war.   </p><p>It seems to me it would be better to give them a starting area in the new upcoming expansion but then again we cant very well have them start with sarnaks Im not sure how they are going to work out city alignment with sarnaks and not shred too much lore .. should be interesting.</p><p>But anyway .. yeh no iksars in Neriak... dark elves, arasai, trolls and ogres are all that should be there.</p><p>just my two copper</p>

CyriexVTZ
05-16-2007, 06:53 AM
I personally think the starting races in Neriak should defiantly NOT include the Iksar - looking around the city with its current incarnation on Test I cannot recall a SINGLE Iksar NPC in the entire city. There are Dark Elves and Arasai a plenty, I've spotted the odd Ogre, Troll and Ratonga, and there are examples of the occasional non-evil NPC's, such as human (mainly children?) half elves, and I think I spotted a gnome in the Dockside Markets, but defiantly NO Iksar.. Based on these NPC's around the city, it seems even the Devs know Iksar have no place in the city, here's hoping they decide against allowing the scaled scum into Innoruuks hallowed caves!

Vonotar
05-18-2007, 09:44 AM
[email protected] Bayle wrote: <blockquote>I personally think the starting races in Neriak should defiantly NOT include the Iksar - looking around the city with its current incarnation on Test I cannot recall a SINGLE Iksar NPC in the entire city. There are Dark Elves and Arasai a plenty, I've spotted the odd Ogre, Troll and Ratonga, and there are examples of the occasional non-evil NPC's, such as human (mainly children?) half elves, and I think I spotted a gnome in the Dockside Markets, but defiantly NO Iksar.. Based on these NPC's around the city, it seems even the Devs know Iksar have no place in the city, here's hoping they decide against allowing the scaled scum into Innoruuks hallowed caves! </blockquote>So lets hope they drop the Iksar and allow Humans as a starter (Half-Elves and Gnomes already have an extra start point in Kelethin). *looks around for a red name to badger*

Megrim27
05-18-2007, 10:47 AM
<p>I don't think we should be looking at it from a racial perspective, only as an individual one.</p><p>I see it like this:  My poor Iksar self was rescued by the Freeport impressment gang just like every other nasty raced person.  Upon reaching the city, I noticed how drab and ugly the place was, and how my race was forced to live in some Iksar ghetto.  Add to this the draconian rules enforced by the overlord (possibly made more draconian by the theft of Soulfire) and I knew I wanted to be anywhere but this depressing place.  Suddenly rumors spread like wildfire about Neriak being opened and some amount of traffic going between the two (Freeport does have an emmisary there) and I decide to see if they could use a few good men, maybe start out on the ground floor of an emerging power you know?  So off I set for Neriak, where I find my self in the starting camp in Darklight Woods.  There I meet all those quest givers asking me to prove my worth and giving me some advice on how to survive in the cutthroat city that is Neriak.</p><p> So the fact that there are no Iksar NPCs in Neriak is totally understandable, they indeed weren't there when the city was sealed off.  But that doesn't mean that some Iksars won't choose to emmigrate to Neriak if possible.  To me the only thing that doesn't make sense is that the neutral races that can start in FP can't also start in Darklight Woods, but that's probably more a game balance issue and doesn't really bother me that much. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Gasheron
05-18-2007, 11:07 AM
<cite>Megrim27 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I don't think we should be looking at it from a racial perspective, only as an individual one.</p><p>I see it like this:  My poor Iksar self was rescued by the Freeport impressment gang just like every other nasty raced person.  Upon reaching the city, I noticed how drab and ugly the place was, and how my race was forced to live in some Iksar ghetto.  Add to this the draconian rules enforced by the overlord (possibly made more draconian by the theft of Soulfire) and I knew I wanted to be anywhere but this depressing place.  Suddenly rumors spread like wildfire about Neriak being opened and some amount of traffic going between the two (Freeport does have an emmisary there) and I decide to see if they could use a few good men, maybe start out on the ground floor of an emerging power you know?  So off I set for Neriak, where I find my self in the starting camp in Darklight Woods.  There I meet all those quest givers asking me to prove my worth and giving me some advice on how to survive in the cutthroat city that is Neriak.</p><p> So the fact that there are no Iksar NPCs in Neriak is totally understandable, they indeed weren't there when the city was sealed off.  But that doesn't mean that some Iksars won't choose to emmigrate to Neriak if possible.  To me the only thing that doesn't make sense is that the neutral races that can start in FP can't also start in Darklight Woods, but that's probably more a game balance issue and doesn't really bother me that much. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p></blockquote><p> Ummm, isn't this entire description a thing called betrayel? That's what we have the betrayel capability for.</p><p>Iksar shouldn't start in Neriak. It's as simple as that. Betraying to Neriak is fine, but starting breaks the ideas of lore and common sense.</p><p>Also, wasn't Darklight Woods cut off from the rest of the mainland until now? If it wasn't then why weren't we able to go there until now?</p>

AbsentmindedMage
05-18-2007, 11:42 AM
It might have already been answered but I believe that Iksar are allowed to start in Neriak because Freeport and Neriak have an Alliance of sorts.  I believe there are even some Freeport guards in Darklight forest.

Radigazt
05-18-2007, 11:48 AM
<p>I don't think the Iksar should start in Neriak.  </p><p>IMHO, only the Dark Elves, Trolls, and Arsai should start in Neriak.  </p><p>If you want more, we could put the Erudites there.  </p><p>Iksar are getting Rise of Kunark, which is going to include a neutral city.  IMHO, all of the cities should be neutral.  Faction vs. Faction would make for more interesting PvP than the current 2 Faction system.  Heck, I'm in favor of not having anyone that's un-attackable if they are within your level range.  </p><p>Back to Neriak, it's the Dark Elf city.  They've worked with the Trolls for a long while, so that makes sense.  They "created" the Arsai, so that makes sense.  None of the other races really do make sense.  </p><p>Generic vs. Specific.  Freeport is a general omni-city, taking in lots of refugees under one strong banner.  Neriak is a specific racially specialized city sealing their doors to outsiders.  IMHO, Kelethin is a specific city and soon the RoK city (Timorous Deep?) will be a specific city too.  Leave the Human cities, Qeynos and Freeport, as the general blending cities, and make the other cities more specific.  </p><p>As for the look of Neriak, I think it's great.  It has a definite elven feel (even if the models were ripped from the unsuccessful adventure pack Village of Shinn or whatever it's called).  The vibrant green marks and shapes of the architecture looks great.  The dark blue hues and general dark feel of it is exactly what I'd expect of a Drow (or Dark Elf if you prefer).  The bright colors are like a wicked flicker in someone's eyes ... well done!  I wouldn't mind seeing some vibrant purple runes written in various places though in Thexian (that's still what they're calling the Dark Elf language after Neriak goes live, right?).  </p><p>The dark blue tones of Neriak will be a nice contrast to the firey reds of Rise of Kunark and the soft greens and golds of Kelethin.  Freeport is Brown and Qeynos is light grey.  Each city will have a definite feel.  </p>

Raidi Sovin'faile
05-18-2007, 09:38 PM
<p>The only reason anyone starts in Qeynos or Freeport these days is because you were "rescued" and chose the ship for that particular city (although these days, there's no choosing anyways).</p><p>If Neriak has a port and is "rescuing" people, then I guess they can start with whoever they feel like taking into their city.</p><p>You don't have to go any further in "lore" than that. Remember.. this is the future now, not everything has to be straightjacketed into the "way things were".</p><p>All this nostalgia flying around. I'm afraid for when they actually come up with anything new. People will freak out cuz "it's not like what it was in the first game". Bah.</p><p>Oh, and as for "fairness" in the starting cities..</p><p>While it's true that Kunark is coming out, the new city and starting zones are Neutral, not Evil. On top of that, the entire lore seems to be about Venril Sathir gathering the iksar and trying to commit genocidal conquest over the now neutral Sarnak... so how welcome do you think Iksar are really gonna be in this new city?</p><p>Honestly I don't even really care.. just some tidbits that folks might want to chew on.</p>

Kamimura
05-19-2007, 12:26 AM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>While it's true that Kunark is coming out, the new city and starting zones are Neutral, not Evil. On top of that, the entire lore seems to be about Venril Sathir gathering the iksar and trying to commit genocidal conquest over the now neutral Sarnak... so how welcome do you think Iksar are really gonna be in this new city?</p></blockquote><p> Erm, yeah.. I was going to point this out.. Iksar aren't getting the new city in ROK. The city is run by Sarnak who were specifically created to destroy the Iksar - I can't imagine the Iksar would take well to that, really. </p>

Gasheron
05-19-2007, 01:46 AM
<p>Okay, question. Why can't humans start in Kelethin? Why can't frogloks?</p><p>To take it another way, based off of the counterpoints given to why Iksar can start in Neriak, why can't ALL neutral races then start in Neriak? They have as much chance of being "picked up and recruited" as Iksar do.</p><p>*Edit* Ya know, I honestly would like to hear the explanation of this from one of the devs. I wonder how one goes about nabbing one to read and respond to the thread...</p>

ke'la
05-19-2007, 03:59 AM
<cite>Gasheron wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Okay, question. Why can't humans start in Kelethin? Why can't frogloks?</p><ul><li>Because when those people heard about the verious cataclisums happening to thier Homelands they all ran back home to help thier people out, as Faydwar is the home of All the "good" elf types(evil half-elfs can't start in Kele), Gnomes and Dwarfs they did not have to "Return" anywhere to help thier people, though some races did have to take refuge in the One remaining city(instead of thier own) after the 2nd War of the Fae.</li></ul><p>To take it another way, based off of the counterpoints given to why Iksar can start in Neriak, why can't ALL neutral races then start in Neriak? They have as much chance of being "picked up and recruited" as Iksar do.</p><ul><li>Because as your race is Neutral and not EVIL you are evil Light and not evil enough for Neriak<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. Besides its not that they are being Picked up, its that the Darklight Woods have been Discovered by the Thexians and the Queen of Neriak can't let the Thexians(who are not loyal to her) move in on her doorstep, so she opened the seal to Neriak and out poured her Soldiers who more or less wiped out the Thexians in Darklight Woods, and taken it for her own. She then set up a "prove your worth" camp in Darklight to test those that want to become citizens of Neriak(including her own creation) if you prove your worth you are welcomed into the city's NEW Forien Quarter (the old one is suposedly Fallen Gate wich is why there are so few non-DEs and Arasai in Neriak). </li></ul><p>*Edit* Ya know, I honestly would like to hear the explanation of this from one of the devs. I wonder how one goes about nabbing one to read and respond to the thread...</p></blockquote>

Spider
05-19-2007, 09:36 AM
<p>500 years?  Come on folks, an entire world can change in balance in a day.  </p><p>Do you really think in 500 years that some of the iksar could not have found a home in Neriak?  There are iksar living in Qeynos!  Yeah! Go figure.</p><p>500 years is a LONG time.  More than 5 lifespans.  There is only a '1 lifetime waranty' on hatred, because hatred is not inherited, it is learned.</p><p>With iksar children and families removed from the iksar collective, they were forced to learn without the hatred being taught by the Iksar Empire.  Without that hatred being taught, the young grow up and learn their own prejudices.</p><p>Look how many peoples of Earth mingle and co-exist (though not peacefully) in the same cities.  Peacefully or not, that does not mean various peoples do not share a city.  </p>

Gasheron
05-19-2007, 10:12 AM
<p>Okay, first of all, as I said in an earlier post, the Iksar suffered under the enslavement of the Shissar for well over 500 years before they were finally freed. A simple 500 years under Lucan's hand is not going to change their attitudes. Besides, the Iksar that were first taken by Lucan were from the "Iksar collective," and thus were already "knowledgeable" in the hating of all non-Iksar, and could teach those values to their children. Besides, hating all other races isn't a taught value to the Iksar, it's in their very nature, like how DEs are just naturally manipulative.</p><p>Iksar hated all non-Iksar, conquered a continent, waged a war with dragons (which they very nearly won), enslaved an entire nation of frogloks, created one of the longest living liches on the planet (Venril Sathir), AND serve Cazic Thule, an EVIL God of Fear, devoutly. How are the Iksar evil light?</p><p>As for the other comments in response to my questions, if you took the explanation that Iksar can start in Neriak because we don't start as hatchlings, but are instead recruited, why can't Humans start in Kelethin? If you haven't noticed, the Kelethin starting area has a beach, and thus has access to the sea.</p><p>Also, if Neriak is recruiting in Darklight Woods, and are taking in Iksar, who have no actual presence in the city itself, who prove themselves worthy, why can't they take in Kerran, Barbarians, and Humans? if they take in Iksar, they should also take in every evil and neutral race. What, do the DEs see a kerran and say "Awwww, it's just a kitten. Throw it back,"? There is no reason that Iksar should start in Neriak.</p><p>Again, Iksar have no presence in Neriak. Neriak has been SEALED for the past 500 years. The only Iksar that would live in Neriak are those that leave Freeport, which is why we have a thing called betrayel.</p>

Seraki
05-19-2007, 03:12 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>500 years?  Come on folks, an entire world can change in balance in a day.  </p><p>Do you really think in 500 years that some of the iksar could not have found a home in Neriak?  There are iksar living in Qeynos!  Yeah! Go figure.</p><p>500 years is a LONG time.  More than 5 lifespans.  There is only a '1 lifetime waranty' on hatred, because hatred is not inherited, it is learned.</p><p>With iksar children and families removed from the iksar collective, they were forced to learn without the hatred being taught by the Iksar Empire.  Without that hatred being taught, the young grow up and learn their own prejudices.</p><p>Look how many peoples of Earth mingle and co-exist (though not peacefully) in the same cities.  Peacefully or not, that does not mean various peoples do not share a city.  </p></blockquote><p>As Neriak is newly rediscovered  by our newer Norrath, how did the Iksar manage to find their way there in the mean time?    Also why would Queen Cristanos welcome them?   </p><p>I think it would be easier devolepment wise to not let them start in Neriak, than to add in the explination that would make it fit into our history.</p><p> Just my two copper though</p><p><img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p>

Kryussius
05-20-2007, 01:53 AM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>500 years?  Come on folks, an entire world can change in balance in a day.  </p><p>Do you really think in 500 years that some of the iksar could not have found a home in Neriak?  There are iksar living in Qeynos!  Yeah! Go figure.</p><p>500 years is a LONG time.  More than 5 lifespans.  There is only a '1 lifetime waranty' on hatred, because hatred is not inherited, it is learned.</p><p>With iksar children and families removed from the iksar collective, they were forced to learn without the hatred being taught by the Iksar Empire.  Without that hatred being taught, the young grow up and learn their own prejudices.</p><p>Look how many peoples of Earth mingle and co-exist (though not peacefully) in the same cities.  Peacefully or not, that does not mean various peoples do not share a city.  </p></blockquote><p>No major city on Earth has remained intentionally cut off from the rest of the world to the point where people question whether or not the place still exists.  </p><p>Neriak was cut off from the surface world.  Not mildly exclusive, or only letting in a select few.</p><p>Cut. Off.</p><p>The Queen sealed the city.  That means no one got in.</p><p>Yet, somehow we're supposed to swallow that there's baby Iksar being hatched there.</p><p>Trolls, some ogres, and even a few human merchants were in the Foreign Quarter of Neriak in EQL.  Trolls had it as a starting city for awhile.  I can swallow any of the three starting in Neriak (though your bloodline would have to be a pretty twisted one to be a human lineage that was allowed to live there that long).</p><p>I'll swallow Iksar being able to start there if they will give some kind of lore behind it that makes any sense.  Neriak "rescuing" refugees makes absolutely no sense, since as I pointed out, the Queen has gone to great pains for several centuries to keep the city sealed off from the rest of Norrath.  At the time of the War of the Fay, Iksar on the whole were still detested in Neriak.</p><p>Iksar living in Qeynos is a bad example, since Qeynos is an open city, like Freeport.  Qeynos hasn't been buried away from mortal memory for centuries.  Neriak has.</p><p>Neriak is *not* Qeynos.  Neriak is *not* Freeport.  It does not just randomly grow accepting, given its ruler is still as megalomaniacal and hate-filled as she was five centuries ago. </p>

ke'la
05-21-2007, 05:19 AM
[email protected] DLere wrote: <blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>500 years?  Come on folks, an entire world can change in balance in a day.  </p><p>Do you really think in 500 years that some of the iksar could not have found a home in Neriak?  There are iksar living in Qeynos!  Yeah! Go figure.</p><p>500 years is a LONG time.  More than 5 lifespans.  There is only a '1 lifetime waranty' on hatred, because hatred is not inherited, it is learned.</p><p>With iksar children and families removed from the iksar collective, they were forced to learn without the hatred being taught by the Iksar Empire.  Without that hatred being taught, the young grow up and learn their own prejudices.</p><p>Look how many peoples of Earth mingle and co-exist (though not peacefully) in the same cities.  Peacefully or not, that does not mean various peoples do not share a city.  </p></blockquote><p>No major city on Earth has remained intentionally cut off from the rest of the world to the point where people question whether or not the place still exists.  </p><p>Neriak was cut off from the surface world.  Not mildly exclusive, or only letting in a select few.</p><p>Cut. Off.</p><p>The Queen sealed the city.  That means no one got in.</p><p>Yet, somehow we're supposed to swallow that there's baby Iksar being hatched there.</p><p>Trolls, some ogres, and even a few human merchants were in the Foreign Quarter of Neriak in EQL.  Trolls had it as a starting city for awhile.  I can swallow any of the three starting in Neriak (though your bloodline would have to be a pretty twisted one to be a human lineage that was allowed to live there that long).</p><p>I'll swallow Iksar being able to start there if they will give some kind of lore behind it that makes any sense.  Neriak "rescuing" refugees makes absolutely no sense, since as I pointed out, the Queen has gone to great pains for several centuries to keep the city sealed off from the rest of Norrath.  At the time of the War of the Fay, Iksar on the whole were still detested in Neriak.</p><p>Iksar living in Qeynos is a bad example, since Qeynos is an open city, like Freeport.  Qeynos hasn't been buried away from mortal memory for centuries.  Neriak has.</p><p>Neriak is *not* Qeynos.  Neriak is *not* Freeport.  It does not just randomly grow accepting, given its ruler is still as megalomaniacal and hate-filled as she was five centuries ago. </p></blockquote><p>Maybe if you took the time to accually see what is going on in DLW you would understand better. NO ONE is being "Hatched" in Neriak, atleast those that start there. ALL of them are showing up to lend suport to that city.</p><p>They are also NOT refugees, they are people who have traveled there specificly to earn the right to enter Neriak. </p><p>As Iksars currently can't help thier brothern finish the concoring of Kunark, then you really only have too options, bide your time under a Linch that has inslaved you in the past and may do so again, or bide your time under a truely evil and aparently far more powerful person(as she created her own race a feat that Lucan has not done) and work for the Queen of Neriak.</p><p>Also look at it from the point of view of the cities, wich is where SoE looks at it from, as in truth ALL LORE base around your personal caractor is UP TO YOU to deturmin(as long as it does not break game lore) and SoE has nothing to do with that.</p><p>From the cities perspective, wich is the only one that matters...</p><p>The people digging for Neriak have broken though to Darklight Woods(Neriak's Doorstep). This is not a good development as its only a matter of time befor they find thier way into Neriak itself. So the Queen launchs a preemptive strike and destroyes those that broke though to Darklight Woods, and claiming it for herself, but in doing so revealed her location to outsiders. Now she has to deturmin who she will easily let live in her city, who will have to prove there worth with greater tests and who will have to betray thier home cities to beable to live in Neriak.</p><p>Her desistion was this,</p><p>if your race is Truly evil like she is, then all you have to do is goto the outpost in DLW and help work your way to Neriak, while helping it out. </p><p>If your Race is Evil Light, in other words your race has both good and evil people in it. then you must prove your evil by first working for Lucan for a bit, then by passing some tests to prove your "loyalty" to the Queen of Neriak</p><p>Finally if your a Goody TwoShoes Race, your race only has good people, then you must first betray your Good City Brothern and earn your way into Neriak.</p><p>Remember NO PLAYER is Born in thier home city when the game starts, even the Fae exsited in Faydwar(in sprit bud form) befor they showed up in the Nercery in Gfay.</p>

vyxar
05-21-2007, 07:32 AM
Iksar start in neriak becuase arasai are tasty snacks.

Gasheron
05-21-2007, 10:50 AM
ke'la wrote: <blockquote>[email protected] DLere wrote: <p>Maybe if you took the time to accually see what is going on in DLW you would understand better. NO ONE is being "Hatched" in Neriak, atleast those that start there. ALL of them are showing up to lend suport to that city.</p><p>They are also NOT refugees, they are people who have traveled there specificly to earn the right to enter Neriak. </p><p> As Iksars currently can't help thier brothern finish the concoring of Kunark, then you really only have too options, bide your time under a Linch that has inslaved you in the past and may do so again, or bide your time under a truely evil and aparently far more powerful person(as she created her own race a feat that Lucan has not done) and work for the Queen of Neriak.</p><p>         <span style="color: #3300ff"> Iksar hate everyone right? So why move from one tyrannical leader who wants to use us to another tyrannical leader that wants to use us? Do you really think that Cristanos is going to treat us any better than Lucan does, especially when she was around during the huge conflict over the outpost the Thexians set up on Kunark?</span></p><p>Also look at it from the point of view of the cities, wich is where SoE looks at it from, as in truth ALL LORE base around your personal caractor is UP TO YOU to deturmin(as long as it does not break game lore) and SoE has nothing to do with that.</p><p>         <span style="color: #ff0000"> <span style="color: #3300ff"> Being able to start in a city, whether your specific character starts in the city or outside trying to prove your worth to join, shows that your race has a presence in that city. Even for FP, we don't start in the city itself, but Iksar have a presence in the city, so being able to START there makes sense. Remember, adventurers do not make up the WHOLE population of a race.</span> </span></p><p>From the cities perspective, wich is the only one that matters...</p><p>The people digging for Neriak have broken though to Darklight Woods(Neriak's Doorstep). This is not a good development as its only a matter of time befor they find thier way into Neriak itself. So the Queen launchs a preemptive strike and destroyes those that broke though to Darklight Woods, and claiming it for herself, but in doing so revealed her location to outsiders. Now she has to deturmin who she will easily let live in her city, who will have to prove there worth with greater tests and who will have to betray thier home cities to beable to live in Neriak.</p><p>           <span style="color: #3300ff">This is still betrayel, as the only place that Iksar have any racial presence is Freeport, so any Iksar that go to DLW to join Neriak will still be coming from FP or the outskirts of FP. Going from one city to another is called betrayel, and thus shouldn't allow us to start in DLW after having already left FP.</span></p><p>Her desistion was this,</p><p>if your race is Truly evil like she is, then all you have to do is goto the outpost in DLW and help work your way to Neriak, while helping it out. </p><p>          <span style="color: #3300ff"> Again, "go to the outpost in DLW". Where are the Iksar coming from that go to this outpost? The only place that they can come from is FP. </span></p><p>If your Race is Evil Light, in other words your race has both good and evil people in it. then you must prove your evil by first working for Lucan for a bit, then by passing some tests to prove your "loyalty" to the Queen of Neriak</p><p>Finally if your a Goody TwoShoes Race, your race only has good people, then you must first betray your Good City Brothern and earn your way into Neriak.</p><p>Remember NO PLAYER is Born in thier home city when the game starts, even the Fae exsited in Faydwar(in sprit bud form) befor they showed up in the Nercery in Gfay.</p><p>          <span style="color: #3300ff">Yes, no PLAYER is born in their city, but they have been recruited into that city's forces. As the Iksar that we play are descendants from the survivors of the shipwrecks, which were all enslaved by Lucan, Iksar are born either in or in the small areas around FP. Also, players are not all the Iksar there are. There are a LOT more Iksar that live in the city but are not shown as programming all the non-useful in the game but still resident NPCs would cause so much lag that noone could play.</span></p></blockquote>No racial presence = not able to start in that city. Simple as that. Betrayel is fine, and I highly approve of people betraying. But starting makes no sense.

Kryussius
05-21-2007, 05:04 PM
<cite>Gasheron wrote:</cite><blockquote>ke'la wrote: <blockquote>[email protected] DLere wrote: <p>Maybe if you took the time to accually see what is going on in DLW you would understand better. NO ONE is being "Hatched" in Neriak, atleast those that start there. ALL of them are showing up to lend suport to that city.</p><p>They are also NOT refugees, they are people who have traveled there specificly to earn the right to enter Neriak. </p><p> As Iksars currently can't help thier brothern finish the concoring of Kunark, then you really only have too options, bide your time under a Linch that has inslaved you in the past and may do so again, or bide your time under a truely evil and aparently far more powerful person(as she created her own race a feat that Lucan has not done) and work for the Queen of Neriak.</p><p>         <span style="color: #3300ff"> Iksar hate everyone right? So why move from one tyrannical leader who wants to use us to another tyrannical leader that wants to use us? Do you really think that Cristanos is going to treat us any better than Lucan does, especially when she was around during the huge conflict over the outpost the Thexians set up on Kunark?</span></p><p>Also look at it from the point of view of the cities, wich is where SoE looks at it from, as in truth ALL LORE base around your personal caractor is UP TO YOU to deturmin(as long as it does not break game lore) and SoE has nothing to do with that.</p><p>         <span style="color: #ff0000"> <span style="color: #3300ff"> Being able to start in a city, whether your specific character starts in the city or outside trying to prove your worth to join, shows that your race has a presence in that city. Even for FP, we don't start in the city itself, but Iksar have a presence in the city, so being able to START there makes sense. Remember, adventurers do not make up the WHOLE population of a race.</span> </span></p><p>From the cities perspective, wich is the only one that matters...</p><p>The people digging for Neriak have broken though to Darklight Woods(Neriak's Doorstep). This is not a good development as its only a matter of time befor they find thier way into Neriak itself. So the Queen launchs a preemptive strike and destroyes those that broke though to Darklight Woods, and claiming it for herself, but in doing so revealed her location to outsiders. Now she has to deturmin who she will easily let live in her city, who will have to prove there worth with greater tests and who will have to betray thier home cities to beable to live in Neriak.</p><p>           <span style="color: #3300ff">This is still betrayel, as the only place that Iksar have any racial presence is Freeport, so any Iksar that go to DLW to join Neriak will still be coming from FP or the outskirts of FP. Going from one city to another is called betrayel, and thus shouldn't allow us to start in DLW after having already left FP.</span></p><p>Her desistion was this,</p><p>if your race is Truly evil like she is, then all you have to do is goto the outpost in DLW and help work your way to Neriak, while helping it out. </p><p>          <span style="color: #3300ff"> Again, "go to the outpost in DLW". Where are the Iksar coming from that go to this outpost? The only place that they can come from is FP. </span></p><p>If your Race is Evil Light, in other words your race has both good and evil people in it. then you must prove your evil by first working for Lucan for a bit, then by passing some tests to prove your "loyalty" to the Queen of Neriak</p><p>Finally if your a Goody TwoShoes Race, your race only has good people, then you must first betray your Good City Brothern and earn your way into Neriak.</p><p>Remember NO PLAYER is Born in thier home city when the game starts, even the Fae exsited in Faydwar(in sprit bud form) befor they showed up in the Nercery in Gfay.</p><p>          <span style="color: #3300ff">Yes, no PLAYER is born in their city, but they have been recruited into that city's forces. As the Iksar that we play are descendants from the survivors of the shipwrecks, which were all enslaved by Lucan, Iksar are born either in or in the small areas around FP. Also, players are not all the Iksar there are. There are a LOT more Iksar that live in the city but are not shown as programming all the non-useful in the game but still resident NPCs would cause so much lag that noone could play.</span></p></blockquote>No racial presence = not able to start in that city. Simple as that. Betrayel is fine, and I highly approve of people betraying. But starting makes no sense. </blockquote><p> Quoted for emphasis, since this response is exactly what I'm trying to say.</p><p>When a new Iksar adventurer arrives in Freeport, (s)he is sent to the slum where the Iksar are allowed to live and breed within Freeport.</p><p>There is *no* Iksar home area within Neriak.  </p><p>Why is that?</p><p>Because Iksar don't live there and never have.</p><p>They can betray from Freeport and I'm all for that, but it makes absolutely no sense as to how an Iksar is able to walk into the front gates of Neriak at first day, level 1. </p><p>And yes, you can walk in the front gates directly from the outpost in Darklight Woods at without lifting a finger to supposedly earn your way in.</p><p>Iksar beginning in Neriak just makes absolutely no sense.  The devs may as well have said "New Tanaan isn't a starting city because the high elves have become extremely xenophobic and are trying to purify their race.  Oh, but halflings can start there."</p>

Gasheron
05-24-2007, 01:36 AM
<p>Neriak went live today... and Iksar still start in Neriak with no explanation and no new NPCs to show a racial presence...</p><p>So I decided to think it over a little more, and disregard all known lore I could think of that is against Iksar starting in Neriak to see if I could figure out the devs' reasoning... and I have an idea.</p><p>I think that the Iksar are starting in Neriak because the devs feel sorry about how shafted the Iksar are going to be in the RoK expansion. When RoK comes out, at least from the looks of it so far, there isn't going to be any place for Iksar to go & return to their homeland, as living with Sarnak just isn't an option for any decent-minded Iksar. Because of this, when RoK comes out, there's a good chance that every race will be able to start in two different cities, as I'm betting that frogloks will be able to start in the new Sarnak city. If Iksar weren't able to start in Neriak, then they'd only be able to start in 1 city, and I guess people would complain more about that than about breaking lore.</p><p>That's the only reasoning I can come up with... I really wish the devs had put in some kind of lore or some explanation as to their thinking.</p>