Best Intel CPU for EQ2?

[Rayche]

Ok, I've read through a number of threads about the best video card for EQ2, and in those threads it's been mentioned a number of times that it's actually your CPU that determines the bulk of your performance in EQ2. It has also been mentioned that EQ2 doesn't really benefit from Dual or Quad core CPUs. With that in mind, I have to replace my motherboard anyway, so I'm looking to get the fastest Intel CPU for running EQ2 with. At NewEgg I found this: <a href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116196" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16819116196</a> Intel Pentium 4 650 Prescott 3.4ghz 2MB L2 Cache LGA 775 CPU. (Thinking of overclocking it to maybe 3.8ghz?) Is that the best Intel chip I can get for EQ2? If so, it's pretty cheap, which would allow me to spend some decent money on some RAM. (What speed of Front side bus motherboard and speed of RAM would this CPU support? I have an ATI x1600 XT Pro PciE 512mb video card now, so I'm assuming it's up to the video task. Thanks in advance for your thoughts and ideas.

[GrlGmr]

<p>What's your budget?</p><p>Personally, I'd go for one of the Conroe Core 2 Duos. Right now they offer the best 'bang for the buck' power vs. performance ratio. While EQ2 may not benefit that much from a dual core, you can bet that other games will. They are clocked lower, but clock speed isn't always the best indication of performance. They also don't require as much in the way of cooling. I have an e6400 and it's just screaming fast. </p><p>If you have an AGP video card, you're probably going to have to upgrade that to PCI-E as well.</p>

[TSR-JasonC]

The Core 2 Duo E6800 is probably the best "bang for the buck" for Intel processors at the moment.  It's a little expensive (~$1000), but it's highly overclockable and extremely fast.

[GrlGmr]

The e6800 is the fastest Core 2 Duo at the moment, but I wouldn't say that it is the best bang for the buck. That title probably belongs to either the e6300 or e6400. The e6300 can be overclocked to match the e6600, and the e6400 can nearly match the e6800's stock speed.

[Rayche]

In my post I noted that my video card was PciE. (PCI Express) I'm not really concerned about whether I'm getting "Bang for my buck" in regards to whether I can run other games. This is strictly for EQ2 really. Since the Core2's and their ilk are clocked lower on each individual processor, and EQ2 doesn't make use of the second processor I would almost compare it to the Persian army when they went against the Spartans. They can have all the horsepower and numbers they want, but if it all funnels through one pipe (IE: EQ2 only uses one CPU) then performance is to be guaged by the clock speed of a single pipe. Unless, my perception is 100% off, which could very well be, which is why I'm asking. Can a Core Duo be overclocked more than a Single core? My primary concern is to be able to run EQ2 in the highest possible quality while maintaining usable frame rate. I would also like the motherboard to have support for Core 2 chips so I can somewhat future-proof it.

[Rayche]

P.S.  My budget is around $1,000-ish. But I'm taking into account needing to purchase 2 new Gigs of fast ram, a new power supply, a new Motherboard and CPU. (Tried to edit my post, but it kept erroring out.)

[Tebos]

<cite>Gojirax wrote:</cite><blockquote>In my post I noted that my video card was PciE. (PCI Express) I'm not really concerned about whether I'm getting "Bang for my buck" in regards to whether I can run other games. This is strictly for EQ2 really. Since the Core2's and their ilk are clocked lower on each individual processor, and EQ2 doesn't make use of the second processor I would almost compare it to the Persian army when they went against the Spartans. They can have all the horsepower and numbers they want, but if it all funnels through one pipe (IE: EQ2 only uses one CPU) then performance is to be guaged by the clock speed of a single pipe. Unless, my perception is 100% off, which could very well be, which is why I'm asking. Can a Core Duo be overclocked more than a Single core? My primary concern is to be able to run EQ2 in the highest possible quality while maintaining usable frame rate. I would also like the motherboard to have support for Core 2 chips so I can somewhat future-proof it. </blockquote><p>It's not a matter whether or not a Core 2 Duo processor can be clocked higher then a single core processor. The reason why multi-core processor solutions are better suited in today's market is the fact that your operating system makes full use of the core's. The nVidia drivers make full use of the core's. There are other driver's in the market that make full use of the core's. Though the game does not make use of multiple core's, the sum total of everything in play, lean's towards a multi-processor solution.</p><p>You can place the fastest single core processor up again the slowest dual-core processor and EQII will perform better on a dual-core. If your an over-clocker, then the E6800 will always out perform the lesser Intel Core 2 Duo's, noticeably! If you add an 8800 GTX and run under Windows XP with 2 gigs of RAM, then you have just achieved what it is you after; that being max settings and playable frame rates.</p>

[Rayche]

Those are some good details Tebos, thanks. You say Nvidia drivers make use of the Dual Core CPU. Do you know if ATI does? The E6800  is on NewEgg for $970.00 at the moment, so while that's probably the ultimate Chip, it's also Prohibitively expensive. Reviews on that chip say it's an absolute beast, but costs the same as the Quad version of the Core 2 Extreme? So is the dual core CPU advantage tied to using an NVidia card? Or can I expect to get the same performance from my ATI x1600 PciE XT Pro on a dual core? I could see for the price going for the E6600, we're still talking about 4 megs of L2 cache and a 2.4 ghz speed. What could that overclock to reliably with EQ2? (Assuming 2 gigs of 800mhz Corsair memory)

[Rayche]

You also mention that the operating system makes use of the dual cores. That doesn't mean that the Everquest Client does. In fact, I can turn off Explorer altogether if I wanted to. The operating system means little to EQ2, and doesn't have the ability to take threads or functions of the Everquest client and give it an affinity to one CPU or another. I'm speaking strictly in terms of EQ, not in running Windows, or running Ventrillo and Media Player and EQ2, just EQ2. If you have tested, or seen the Everquest2 client working faster on a Dual core CPU version a fast single core that's what I'm looking for. From what I've been able to investigate myself. EQ2Game.exe is a single process, using no more than 650-ish megabytes of RAM and doesn't really benefit from a whole lot of extras. (Increased RAM minimizes swap file usage, so there's big benefit there, but not from EQ2Game.exe itself.) Think of it as building an X-Box for EQ2. What parts will make it run the best. (Without a 1k pricetag on the single chip, but with a 1k price tag total.) (Wish I could edit my post.. lol)

[Tebos]

<cite>Gojirax wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>You also mention that the operating system makes use of the dual cores. That doesn't mean that the Everquest Client does. In fact, I can turn off Explorer altogether if I wanted to. The operating system means little to EQ2, and doesn't have the ability to take threads or functions of the Everquest client and give it an affinity to one CPU or another. I'm speaking strictly in terms of EQ, not in running Windows, or running Ventrillo and Media Player and EQ2, just EQ2.</p><p><b>As I said, since the game is not an SMP coded application, then it's not going to make full use of multiple core's, and that includes the client. What the operating system will do while operating under a multi-processor enviroment is task-switch backgroud services and other operations between the two core's, allowing a system resource intensive application like EQII to have more CPU attention on one of the core's. That translate's into more operating efficency; couple that with video driver's that will task-switch between the physical core's, then you have smoother operations over-all when gaming.</b></p><p>If you have tested, or seen the Everquest2 client working faster on a Dual core CPU version a fast single core that's what I'm looking for.</p><p><b>That has exactly been my experience since January of 2006, each time I upgrade the four computers I have running at home.</b> From what I've been able to investigate myself. EQ2Game.exe is a single process, using no more than 650-ish megabytes of RAM and doesn't really benefit from a whole lot of extras. (Increased RAM minimizes swap file usage, so there's big benefit there, but not from EQ2Game.exe itself.)</p><p><b>Again, based on my experiences and many others who have reported on these boards for the past two years; the game engine executible will chew upwards of 1.8 Gigs of system RAM, dependent on what in-game graphic preset is choosen and whether you are invoking AA/Ansio at it's highest quality and running screen resolutions of 16xx by 12xx or greater. </b> Think of it as building an X-Box for EQ2. What parts will make it run the best. (Without a 1k pricetag on the single chip, but with a 1k price tag total.)</p><p><b>On a budget, divide and conquer your approach of achieving the ultimate end result. You can certainly achieve satisfaction by acquiring a Core 2 Duo E6400 processor and have some room in acquiring a hefty and quality built PSU, a 8800 GTX or possibly both and come with in that 1k budget. But don't skimp on the RAM!! </b> (Wish I could edit my post.. lol) </p><p><b>Sorry...for some reason the text color I choose does not show up, or for that matter any color I choose so I am using a larger font and bold in my replies.</b></p></blockquote>

[Tebos]

<cite>Gojirax wrote:</cite><blockquote>Those are some good details Tebos, thanks. You say Nvidia drivers make use of the Dual Core CPU. Do you know if ATI does? The E6800  is on NewEgg for $970.00 at the moment, so while that's probably the ultimate Chip, it's also Prohibitively expensive. Reviews on that chip say it's an absolute beast, but costs the same as the Quad version of the Core 2 Extreme? So is the dual core CPU advantage tied to using an NVidia card? Or can I expect to get the same performance from my ATI x1600 PciE XT Pro on a dual core? I could see for the price going for the E6600, we're still talking about 4 megs of L2 cache and a 2.4 ghz speed. What could that overclock to reliably with EQ2? (Assuming 2 gigs of 800mhz Corsair memory) </blockquote><p> <b><i>I am not certain if ATI has developed a multi-threaded written driver. TSR JasonC may know!</i></b></p><p><b><i>Prohibitively expensive is subjected reasoning. You have to strike a balance between what it is you have budgeted versus what it is your trying to achieve. Both EQII and Vanguard games rely heavily on CPU as alot of the graphics rendering such as shadows, do not touch the gpu. You could be satisfied in running the game on High Quality in-game preset with the graphics card you posses, and attained fluid performance in conjuction with an E6800 series processor.</i></b></p><p><b><i>I would upgrade computer components in the following order for this game:</i></b></p><p><b><i>CPU - The best you can get</i></b></p><p><b><i>RAM - 2 to 3 GIGS</i></b></p><p><b><i>PSU - 600 watt or greater and with modular cords</i></b></p><p><b><i>Graphics Card -  8800 GTX solution offers tremendous gains in both visual and performance, and is currently the gpu of choice!</i></b></p><p><b><i>Forget about Quad-core processor's at this point in time, and in the near future!</i></b></p><p><b><i>There will be appreciable gains when getting a dual-core processor versus a single processor solution, even with an ATI X1600 card, regardless if the driver for that card is multi-threaded written or not.</i></b></p><p><b><i>The E6600 is the processor of choice as it weights in considerably less then the E6800 and just above the E6400 and E6300 flavors. The arguement is that people feel that when they over-clock those CPU's, they are of the belief that they have achieved E6800 speeds at less cost when implemented with an adequate cooling solution. As TSR JasonC stated, even the E6800 is very clockable in which it's lesser processor models are unable to match in performance. The direct result in having an over-clocked or standard clocked E6800 processor is more fluid game play when attempting to maximize the in-game graphical presets.</i></b></p><p><b><i>However, this game scales with what you have, and there will always be sufferage when you mix lesser technolgy with bleeding edge technology, and this has disappointed many people, particularly when they have a low to mid level processor coupled with an 8800 GTX. They are not seeing the gains.</i></b></p><p><b><i>Some of what I have said is of my own opinion and may have no merit...but that is what an open forum has to offer; others can chime in <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></i></b></p>

[Rayche]

Thanks again <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I'm only keeping my X1600 ATI until they release their DirectX10 ATI card in the next month or two. (Rumor has it that it'll be slightly faster than NVidia's DirectX10 card currently is. Not that I care, but I will be upgrading the video soon, just not yet.) I had my motherboard die, so some of my $1k has to go towards a newer and more stable power supply, so I don't have to worry about that again. When I pick up a new motherboard, I'll be getting something with a faster FSB, which means I'll also need to replace my RAM. This will allow me to get a stable system up and running again, while eliminating 90% of the bottlenecks of that system, then replace the video card in a few months. I'm already running two SATA2 hard drives. One with the game, and one with my swap file for performance. I'm going to go with the 6600 solution I think for now. What's a good motherboard for that system?

[GrlGmr]

<p>Count on spending around $100 on a good PSU. There are a lot of good ones out there. Get one with interchangable cables if you can. Makes for much less clutter in the case. That leaves you plenty for other components.</p><p>While it's true that the e6800 is also very overclockable and can reach speeds beyond the lower end Core 2 Duos, it also costs a lot more and you can get pretty close to the stock speed on some of the lower end CPUs. My suggestion would be to get either the E6600 or E6700. Don't get one of the Meroms, they're for mobile computers and have a slower FSB anyway. Going by Newegg prices, the E6600 is $308 and the E6700 is $509. They come with a heatsink and fan, but you can get better (and quieter) performance with an aftermarket cooler. A decent air cooler should run you around $50. I have water cooling, so I can't really recommend any I've had personal experience with.</p><p>The Core 2 Duos fit socket 775 boards, which have been in production for awhile since previous Intel CPUs were also 775. Are you planning on going SLI/Crossfire in the future? That will effect your choice of mobo. Keep in mind that the dual card setups usually have reduced numbers of PCI slots. Most have two, but there's a few I know of with only one, and most of the more recent video cards have such huge cooling systems that the second card in place might mean in reality you have no available PCI slots. Whichever mobo you pick, make sure it has a 1066/800MHz FSB to get the best out of your CPU and RAM. For my single card setup, I went with the ASUS P5B-E. At the time I did my upgrade, Intel chipsets were the only ones available, so you'll probably want to do some research to see if the nVidia chipsets are better.</p><p>As far as RAM goes, most of the newer boards specifically built for Core 2 CPUs use DDR2. Check the compatibilty list for the mobo on the manufacturer's web page. While most of the time pretty much any quality RAM of the right type will do, on the upgrade before last I went through 7 sticks of memory that had worked on other computers before buckling under and buying RAM that was on the compatibility list. It seems that the tolerances are getting less and less these days, and some boards are pickier than others. Better to be safe than sorry.</p>

[Hardain]

Tbh, you can oc even the lowest clocked C2D's(E4300 & 6300) to beat X6800 on performance, and even tho 6600 and higher models have more L2 cache, it doesn't really matter on games atm. Practically every C2D goes +3ghz on air(some go +4ghz with liquid cooling) if you have good mobo to go with. Higher number doesn't mean it's the best clocker, for example my AMD Opteron 165, which is slowest of all S939 dual cores, is also the best clocking dual core in S939, i got mine easily to 2,8ghz from stock 1,8ghz and i don't have expensicve mobo or ram,  and with good stepping they go as far as 3,2ghz.