PDA

View Full Version : New Players - Don't Bother


Denubisdjinn
03-25-2007, 05:06 PM
<p>Yeah the games been out for awhile but the game is far from friendly to new players.  I tried the pvp server got to level 10 and found most newb area's where my quests are camped by groups of uber twinked 15th lvl players.  Its pretty much impossible for me to compete with these players.  Even if I did manage to cheaply kill them they bring in 10 other twink friends.</p><p> Result is your pvp servers are slowly stagnating.  Once new players move elsewhere all those uber twinks won't have anyone to kill... then what... stand around in cities doing nothing like most of the other 70's I see recalling the good ole days ?</p>

rezo
03-25-2007, 05:32 PM
If you were level 10, level 15's can't attack you in newbie area's.  Before you come to our forums and talk [Removed for Content] about our game.....do a little more research. What the twinks will do when noobs aren't around is what the twinks do everyday.  Hunt other twinks.  It takes a few days of harvesting and tradeskilling to be able to mastercraft twink a low level.  That is the gear that most people have.  OR, you can level past the teen twinks in a day.

ZUES
03-25-2007, 05:40 PM
<p>Actually the OP is right in saying what he did and I agree with him. I rolled a new toon on naggy and ran into the same problem. After awhile I was in EF and someone opened a trade window. He loaded it with master crafted gear and clicked accept. Before I had time to reply he sent me a tell saying that I would get slaughtered in all my treasured gear I had just quested for. He said I had no chance because everyone has twinked alts my level. I said thank you but I couldnt accept it and opened the window back up to give it back to him and he refused. Although I appreciate hisefforts and kindness I feel it was all wasted because at 17 I finally deleted the toon. PVP is supposed to be fun but all I did was get killed a billion times by lower level peeps with all fable and masters. It's no fun losing all the time......</p>

Spyderbite
03-25-2007, 11:22 PM
<cite>ZUES wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Actually the OP is right in saying what he did and I agree with him. </p></blockquote> I'd agree with you.. but, then we'd both be wrong. The problem most face on a PvP server is that they hunt/level in the same places they did on a PvE server. Or, if they're new to the game, they're following the Guides/FAQs which were written based on PvE rulesets. New players on a PvP server have to think of their initial 20 levels as an initiation. You're going to get PK'd/Ganked.. to expect otherwise is just setting yourself up for disappointment. Be creative and seek out places to hunt/level that are not the D'Jour... Sitting in a dark alley in a bad neighborhood and hoping the bad elements will leave you alone because you're new to the area isn't being <i>new. </i>It's ignorant.

Shinnar
03-25-2007, 11:30 PM
<p>That is why new players should start on PVE servers first and L2P before they come to PVP... </p><p>But that applies for any PVP MMORG, FPS, Strategy or anything..... First learn then own...</p>

Firam
03-25-2007, 11:53 PM
This has been brought up literally hundreds of times.  The response by veteran players is usually "quit whining, thats just the way it is."  While that's kind of harsh, it's correct. Yes, they are right.  There are an inordinate number of T2 level locked MC/fabled twinks.  This is what bored people with little to no PvP skill do to amuse themselves.  Get over it.  Some of them (a smaller number) lock in T3 for the same reason.  Some of them (a much much smaller number) do it in T4 or T5, and those poor souls spend <i>even more $$$ and time</i> throwing random pieces of fabled at their locked toons to go prey on the hapless treasured and mastercrafted wanderers.  What's the answer? 1.  Ignore it.  Level through it in a few days.  You came to this server to start a new character, to get into a new gaming experience?  You didn't expect to be at the top of the totem pole your second day, did you?  Spend a tiny bit of time levelling past these gankers and forget about it.  There are plenty of instances if you don't like to be bothered while you do it. 2.  Group.  This game was designed around grouping.  Defeat the solo/duo twinks with numbers.  They don't usually travel in huge packs.  They're almost always a class that is extremely strong at lower levels when solo, because they like the feeling of power they get when they can tear through 2-3 poorly equipped green/blue opponents at once.  SK, ranger, rogues, etc. My first PvP character was a T3 level locked swashie.  I used to defend level locking as a viable playstyle.  I've regretted that ever since, and no longer permanently lock any character (might do it temporarily to let friends catch up, which is what it's meant for.)  I now play a T7 character as my main... and yes, it was hard at first.  It's still hard.  I levelled myself up into an environment where most of my enemies are now much better equipped and much more experienced than I am.  However, I find that fun!  I'll never become a better player if I never challenge myself. And that's a lesson the T2 lockers never learned...

dnice74
03-26-2007, 12:15 AM
<cite>Firamas wrote:</cite><blockquote>This has been brought up literally hundreds of times.  The response by veteran players is usually "quit whining, thats just the way it is."  While that's kind of harsh, it's correct. Yes, they are right.  There are an inordinate number of T2 level locked MC/fabled twinks.  This is what bored people with little to no PvP skill do to amuse themselves.  Get over it.  Some of them (a smaller number) lock in T3 for the same reason.  Some of them (a much much smaller number) do it in T4 or T5, and those poor souls spend <i>even more $$$ and time</i> throwing random pieces of fabled at their locked toons to go prey on the hapless treasured and mastercrafted wanderers.  What's the answer? 1.  Ignore it.  Level through it in a few days.  You came to this server to start a new character, to get into a new gaming experience?  You didn't expect to be at the top of the totem pole your second day, did you?  Spend a tiny bit of time levelling past these gankers and forget about it.  There are plenty of instances if you don't like to be bothered while you do it. 2.  Group.  This game was designed around grouping.  Defeat the solo/duo twinks with numbers.  They don't usually travel in huge packs.  They're almost always a class that is extremely strong at lower levels when solo, because they like the feeling of power they get when they can tear through 2-3 poorly equipped green/blue opponents at once.  SK, ranger, rogues, etc. My first PvP character was a T3 level locked swashie.  I used to defend level locking as a viable playstyle.  I've regretted that ever since, and no longer permanently lock any character (might do it temporarily to let friends catch up, which is what it's meant for.)  I now play a T7 character as my main... and yes, it was hard at first.  It's still hard.  I levelled myself up into an environment where most of my enemies are now much better equipped and much more experienced than I am.  However, I find that fun!  I'll never become a better player if I never challenge myself. And that's a lesson the T2 lockers never learned... </blockquote> I hate to agree with Firamas, but he is 100% correct. If you don't like the game, then leave. But you're missing out in a big way. These posts about how the game sucks because of the low level gankers are absurd, and I wish they'd go away. It is incredibly easy to get out of that level range even with limited time and find ways to avoid the gankers. Don't miss out on a great game because you didn't try to overcome anything; if you really think you "tried" by getting to level ten, you are a quitter, plain and simple.

Sinistria
03-26-2007, 03:17 AM
yes, this lvl-locking is a mess and have to leave but: still there would be people to hunt you down. its a pvp server and people try to "kill" others. thats what its meant to be. no thick skin = better not on a pvp - server <img src="/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

baddogshaun
03-26-2007, 05:42 AM
<p>A cry to the hardcore PVPers (from a hardcore player) </p><p>I have a skin of several feet thickness and I enjoy PVP, care nothing for dying and am getting moderately good at it. Im also extraordinarily persistent, and will keep coming back and coming back to a game till I either decide the game is no good or I master it. I will find every scrap of info on the net. I will try things till something works. I will spend 5 plat and days of crafting on armor then realise it is no good and do it all again. And enjoy the experience.</p><p>But Im a tiny minority of people.. Im a totally obsessed gamer/developer. This is my life. For most it isnt, and they will stop after a short time. The game for new players is flatly not enjoyable at all. We are left with a game for only hardcore players where non hardcore are short playlife fodder, each one available to kill for a few days.</p><p>And its true to say all the things that are said here, "its hard but theres a fun game there for those of us who work at it","we worked for twink so its fair","the game just rewards excellence" etc etc. All true, but all futile, and when said by the self same people who come here and shout and scream about dying servers and about lack of support and/or players its GROSSLY HYPOCRITICAL.</p><p>Maybe you do not care if players join and stay. You care about the narrow playstyle you (and I) enjoy. The consequence of those actions is that player numbers fall constantly as the potential base of new players is used up, the developer sees PVP as increasingly marginal and starts to move focus away from it (there will be no more changes to help PVP at the expense of PVE you may be sure) in an ever decreasing spiral leading inevitably to the end of PVP EQ2. It seems unlikely that PVP EQ2 has enough credibility at SOE for them to justify spending a lot of money on the big rebuild that would be the only thing that could save it long term. And you would not support that rebuild anyway because the game you currently love is incompatible with mass market success. You made your beds now you can lie in them for a while, till the bed is reposessed.</p><p>Or you can all start thinking, as a group (and there is a community here, however crass, rude and selfish), about what might make PVP actually work progressively as a game. </p><p>Players are the problem, players can solve the problem. I see too many noobs ganked in front of fellow citizens who watch them die because the maths of the situation doesnt suit intervention till after they are dead or because there is no infamy to be gained, or because there is a risk of death in joining in. I above all else google "EQ2 PVP Guide" and find no useful guides written by you experts telling a new player how to be a succesful PVPer (everyone will do this and everyone will find little or no info). I find no community. Why? because you all dont want to help potential competitors, you WANT to keep the information to yourselves.. so a thread started here with good intentions like some about tips for noobs recently are swamped in the same old bull.</p><p>Every other EQ2 aspect has a COMMUNITY which has stars who contribute, who everyone knows and respects. If you, in your head, are elite then time to act like it, spend a couple of evenings writing a guide for new players instead of getting a few more kills. Publish it. get some worthwhile stickies on this forum or get the big EQ2 websites to publish it (they will take your hand off for good PVP articles!)</p><p>Dont do it for me, do it for the puppies I will kill if you dont.</p>

Sinistria
03-26-2007, 05:55 AM
" We are left with a game for only hardcore players where non hardcore are short playlife fodder," this is not true. EQ2 is far far away from being "hardcore". its very easy, you will be taken by hand and guided through the game. everybody can manage it. even with those grey-zergs. all you need is patience and the will to get through. thats all about it. there are no hardcore games out on the market (non as EQ1 i mean) even VG is getting easier and easier and there are already maxe-level or almost maxlevels. 6 weeks after release. EQ2 is much easier.

Palleon
03-26-2007, 07:25 AM
<p>Here's an "out the box" suggestion for you.</p><p>Roll a character on Darathar, the UK / Euro PvP server (just select EU at the launchpad before logging in).</p><p>There is a tiny population here, so you wont get ganked and can level up pretty fast, most times not even seeing someone from the other side. We have virtually no level locked twinks either, and the low level names arent camped.</p><p>SOE have said that Soon (tm) they will provide free transfers to Nagafen or Venekor (the US pvp servers). </p><p>When this offer finally comes, you get to move your levelled up and well equiped PvP character over to the main servers for free. You wont have been ganked, you will have learnt the game, you'll find small groups of other new players levelling up (we have at least 5 sub 20 players in our guild so I know there are low levels playing and questing) and you will be ready to take on the more "hardcore" of the EQ2 pvp playerbase <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Spyderbite
03-26-2007, 07:46 AM
<cite>Firamas wrote:</cite><blockquote>Spend a tiny bit of time levelling past these gankers and forget about it. </blockquote> Exactly. When I first started on Venekor, I was stalked and murdered ruthlessly and several times an hour by a few lvl locked Q's that hunted noobs in the graveyard. I always fought back, and despite my inevitable deaths, I learned a lot from those "playground bullies". Once I'd found more secluded places to train and harvest, and leveled past the twinks, I returned to the graveyard. While the beginning stages on a PvP server can be frustrating.. the reward of accomplishment when your murderers become your prey.. is priceless. I never turned in the tokens from those Q's that hunted me in the graveyard. Instead I keep them in my house vault as a reminder that patience is the most valuable skill on a PvP server. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Greenion
03-26-2007, 09:28 AM
<cite>Denubisdjinn wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Yeah the games been out for awhile but the game is far from friendly to new players.  I tried the pvp server got to level 10 and found most newb area's where my quests are camped by groups of uber twinked 15th lvl players.  Its pretty much impossible for me to compete with these players.  Even if I did manage to cheaply kill them they bring in 10 other twink friends.</p><p> Result is your pvp servers are slowly stagnating.  Once new players move elsewhere all those uber twinks won't have anyone to kill... then what... stand around in cities doing nothing like most of the other 70's I see recalling the good ole days ?</p></blockquote><p> <span style="color: #339900">firstly dood, a lvl 15 cant attack a lvl 10 character. (unless you are an exile or the lvl 10 character is in a zone of higher tier than T2 or the lvl 10 is carnage flagged (?) (not sure actually if carnage flagging negates level differentials for teamed characters or not))</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">secondly, i harvested enough rares for my toons in T1 and crafted their gear myself (a T1 crafter can use any crafting station and therefor can make any handcrafted item ingame, and in T1 all the advanced books sell from a vendor, if you get the rares (in T1 not all that rare btw imo, i wonder why?) then you can masterdraft at least a few pieces for yourself)...in T2 i suggest something similar, but a single char in T2 as far as crafting can only make a third of the handcrafted items ingame...i use alts))</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">next you are going to tell me you dont want to craft or harvest, fine, continue to do it the way you are doing, just dont blame your lack of aptitude for full character development on the game.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">...roflz, i wonder what server you are on...pffftz, need i even ask?</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">anyway...hope that all works out for you, glx.</span></p>

Bozidar
03-26-2007, 11:19 AM
<p>There are a lot of ways to combat the newb factor (not noob, that's different).  I've made suggestions, i've helped people out and spent tons of money doing it.</p><p>Only experience will make a difference, in the long run.</p><p>Either you have the guts to stick through it, or you're a whiner and a quitter.. and we're better off without you.</p><p>EDIT: </p><p>I apologize if the above statement offends.  There is a PLETHORA of information out there on how to approach pvp.  folks have put a lot out there in terms of sharing their experience and know-how, and it's up to new players to take advantage of that and use it.  If you choose not to TRY at something, and just expect to be good at it, then you're playing the wrong game.  EQ2 pvp isn't an easy-breezy thing.  You have to learn, you have to think, and stratergize.. and you have to spend time making your toons as best they can be -- because the enemy is better prepared, better geared, and is going to kill you.</p><p>So make use of the forums here, read the advice and information given.  If you have questions, ASK them, please.  Don't come here complaining, come here with an open mind ready to learn about how to get back at that enemy -- unlike the OP (original poster) here.</p><p>I never played an MMO besides EQ2.  I never played PVE, i started my first toon on Vox, and have never left.  I know exactly what that learning curve is like, and it's not pretty.  If you want, roll a toon on the vox FP side and send any of my alts a tell (read names below).  if i'm not busy, i'll be happy to answer you a question or two to get you started or clear up any confusion you might have.  Servers were down today, but i was in chat waiting for the update to finish.. and spent about 1.5 hours chatting with a guy who's been on PvE a month and is gonna try pvp.. and i think he was happy for the help.</p><p>It's a great game, but it's not easy.  there's a ton to learn.  I've been playing since last may, and i still have a TON to learn about all of my toons and their classes.  And it doesn't stop there.. i need to learn about my friends classes, and what they can do for me.  I need to learn about my enemy classes, and what they can do.  I know some of this obviously, but there's always more to learn.  Trust me, if you're not an expert at this game, you will be saying to yourself "How did he do that to me??" every once in a while <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Use that experience, learn about the game.. and get better. </p><p>Rule #1.. you're going to get ganked, don't get emotional about it.  </p><p>Rule #2.. everyone breaks part 2 of rule #1.. but the folks who love pvp come back anyway <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Inzipid
03-26-2007, 01:10 PM
Don't Bother?  Bah. Get rolled, get mad, get friends and get even.  You'll love it or hate it, and if you love it like I do... stay.  We'll see you out there.

Bloodfa
03-26-2007, 01:46 PM
<p>I'll pass on saying level-up, as it's already been said ... oh, wait, nevermind, I just did say it.  But that's probably the easiest suggestion.  Find an instanced zone and bang out several levels until you're out of the gank-squad range.  Also, try getting into a small-ish guild that's new-player friendly.  Send tells to guilds that catch your eye and see if they actively <i>do</i> help a new guy get comfortable, and if they've got some folks that don't mind rolling with a low-level alt group.  Try different classes, too.  When I first rolled with PvP, my boss and I both had the same frustrations, as we couldn't seem to get 20 yards past the guards without getting baskstabbed and zerged by necro pets.  After realizing that PvP needs a completely different playing style than PvE, I rolled a swashie.  Tracking and evac made a world of difference.  Pick your fights with care, and don't be afraid to run (just don't zone-hug, that's the lamest tactic ever).  If you're in the mood to kill-or-be-killed, you can do that, or you can bug out if you're not in the mood to die.<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Most importantly, don't be afraid to ask if somebody has a couple of pointers in-game.  Contrary to popular belief, you actually may get somebody willing to put their game on hold for 15 or 20 minutes to give you some tips.  It gets better, and the first time you bag somebody who's carrying a couple of plat, you'll see why it can be addictive.  Like anything worthwhile, you just need to invest a little time.</p><p>Oh, did I mention the part about running away?<img src="/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Bozidar
03-26-2007, 01:49 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p> (just don't zone-hug, that's the lamest tactic ever)</p></blockquote> You obviously haven't heard about guard-hugging hook-shotters yet.. and i'm not sure how you haven't.

Bloodfa
03-26-2007, 01:59 PM
<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p> (just don't zone-hug, that's the lamest tactic ever)</p></blockquote> You obviously haven't heard about guard-hugging hook-shotters yet.. and i'm not sure how you haven't.</blockquote> Yeah, but zone-hugging gets me more worked up.  Which is the purpose, I suppose.<img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Bozidar
03-26-2007, 02:04 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>Yeah, but zone-hugging gets me more worked up.  Which is the purpose, I suppose.<img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote> Because you're a qeynosian and don't get hook-shot <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Zone hugging is nothing by comparison..

Wytie
03-26-2007, 02:20 PM
<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>Yeah, but zone-hugging gets me more worked up.  Which is the purpose, I suppose.<img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote> Because you're a qeynosian and don't get hook-shot <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Zone hugging is nothing by comparison.. </blockquote> more like second nature <img src="/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Bozidar
03-26-2007, 02:23 PM
<cite>Wytie wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>Yeah, but zone-hugging gets me more worked up.  Which is the purpose, I suppose.<img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote> Because you're a qeynosian and don't get hook-shot <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Zone hugging is nothing by comparison.. </blockquote> more like second nature <img src="/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote> sorry, don't understand what you're getting at..

Bloodfa
03-26-2007, 02:34 PM
<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wytie wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>Yeah, but zone-hugging gets me more worked up.  Which is the purpose, I suppose.<img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote> Because you're a qeynosian and don't get hook-shot <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Zone hugging is nothing by comparison.. </blockquote> more like second nature <img src="/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote> sorry, don't understand what you're getting at.. </blockquote>Seconded.  Allow me to "Huh?"

Sarpedonx
03-26-2007, 04:44 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>  When I first rolled with PvP, my boss and I both had the same frustrations, as we couldn't seem to get 20 yards past the guards without getting baskstabbed and zerged by necro pets.  After realizing that PvP needs a completely different playing style than PvE, I rolled a swashie.  Tracking and evac made a world of difference.  Pick your fights with care, and don't be afraid to run (just don't zone-hug, that's the lamest tactic ever). </p></blockquote>Heya's, noob here.  I recently rolled an tank on venekor.  I have mixed feelings about eq2 pvp so far.  As Bloodfang mentioned, he originally chose a class that did not have track and evac and had difficulty.  So he rolled a swashy and has enjoyed the experience.  The lesson appears to be Roll an Ubar class...Forgive me, but i dont want to roll a swashy/fury/brig/random ubar scout class.  Thus i disregard the lesson and must get used to playing on a really really really uneven playing field.  /shrug All this [Removed for Content] about "hardcore" and "bluebies" is off base.  You have people who want to play on a pvp server, which is already hard mode, and the horrendous class disparities force people to either roll an ubar class or play in ridiculous mode.  So people who have the stones to be hardcore but dont want to be limited to one of four class choices may decide to spend their time/money elsewhere. I will also say that the lack of input from soe developers on this board just exacerbates the situation.  It further marginalizes pvp by giving newbs the impression that what is is what will ever be, so deal or leave.

Bozidar
03-26-2007, 04:54 PM
<cite>Sarpedonx wrote:</cite><blockquote>Heya's, noob here.  I recently rolled an tank on venekor.  I have mixed feelings about eq2 pvp so far.  As Bloodfang mentioned, he originally chose a class that did not have track and evac and had difficulty.  So he rolled a swashy and has enjoyed the experience.  The lesson appears to be Roll an Ubar class </blockquote><p>The lesson he learned is "roll an uber class", but that's not the reality.</p><p>The lesson is learn your class, and play to it's strengths, and protect your weaknesses.</p><p>1) Get friends, get a good guild for pvp.  Only the aformentioned uber classes or folks who're REALLY good at a group class will be able to solo and enjoy it.  Most of the classes in this game are group classes, and that means pvp too.</p><p>2) Learn to group with your class.  L2P, as it's said so often.  If you want to pvp with a berserker, fine..  Find a healer and some DPS to go along with ya.  You can solo that pve content just fine, but PvP has a little more brains behind it than that.. you have to "think back".</p><p>3) Gear up.. it's not a situation out there where treasured gear is usually going to get you buy.  If your gear isn't equal or better to the master crafted for that tier.. you should probably still be working on it.  If you're using Adept I's.. hopefully it's while you harvest for the rare for Adept III, or the master I itself.</p><p>4) Learn your enemies.  Find out where they hunt, where they like to gank, what their groups compose of and how to beat them.  Don't think that just because you're lvl 14, or 19 that you can't pvp and kick people's teeth in.  You can.. you should.. but learn about them first.. then attack.</p><p>There's a lot more to pvp than "play an uber class".</p>

Fearborn
03-26-2007, 05:01 PM
<p>Godammit, I decided to start playing chess at a local Chess club.</p><p>I'm a newb and to be honest this game of Chess is not set up for the new player.  These clubs are full of gank squads of totally uber chess masters and I have been playing for a full two weeks and never won once.  They pwn me in like 5 minutes over and over.</p><p>If they want chess to be successful they need to make it much easier for the new player to compete against the masters.  I tell you, this game of chess is going to slowly dry up cause its too hard for new players.</p><p>IMHO, if you can't be a pro after two weeks its not worth doing.</p>

Sarpedonx
03-26-2007, 05:26 PM
<cite>Fearborn wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Godammit, I decided to start playing chess at a local Chess club.</p><p>I'm a newb and to be honest this game of Chess is not set up for the new player.  These clubs are full of gank squads of totally uber chess masters and I have been playing for a full two weeks and never won once.  They pwn me in like 5 minutes over and over.</p><p>If they want chess to be successful they need to make it much easier for the new player to compete against the masters.  I tell you, this game of chess is going to slowly dry up cause its too hard for new players.</p><p>IMHO, if you can't be a pro after two weeks its not worth doing.</p></blockquote>Thank you Fearborn, your opinion is highly valuable to me, you freakin tool.  Comparing Chess to a mmo pvp game is asinine.  Bozidar, i appreciate your input.  You make very good points.  Ok toolborn, err fearborn, lets examine your chess analogy.  In Chess, two players begin the game with an equal number of pawns, rooks, bishops...you see where im going im sure (or hope).  The disparity in chess is in the skill level, ability, intelligence.  The disparity in eq2 is seen in skill level and ability, but it is also seen in the 1's and 0's that make up your characters abilities, traits, and gear.  I am level 20 with handcrafted, you are level 20 with fabeled.  Not an equal playing field, regardless of players ability.  This brings about the question, how does a level 20 end up geared with all fabeled?  well...level locking, which amplifies imbalances.  Am i to assume that you are 24 times better than everyone else because you have over 2100 kills and less than 100 deaths??? You are indeed an incredible person, and i am blessed and honored that someone of your skill level should respond to my first post.  /bow Blah, blah, blah, the point of my post is simply the game mechanics are phuked, there is absolutely no class balance, level locking is dumb and hurts the game, and i wonder how people can think that lvl 20 twinks slaughtering newbs is fun.  Im sure i will see the inevitable [Removed for Content] NEWB or L2P.  This game roxor, i r ubar, all your bases are belong to me, wooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.  /sigh

DngrMou
03-26-2007, 05:53 PM
Bozidar wrote: <blockquote><p>Either you have the guts to stick through it, or you're a whiner and a quitter.. and we're better off without you.</p></blockquote> I kinda hate to break this too you...but no matter how uber you perceive yourself, this is still only a game, and 'guts' do not play a part in it.  It's not a lack of these mythical 'guts' of yours that drive new players away, it's a lack of 'fun'.  Big difference. 

DngrMou
03-26-2007, 06:00 PM
<cite>Fearborn wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Godammit, I decided to start playing chess at a local Chess club.</p><p>I'm a newb and to be honest this game of Chess is not set up for the new player.  These clubs are full of gank squads of totally uber chess masters and I have been playing for a full two weeks and never won once.  They pwn me in like 5 minutes over and over.</p><p>If they want chess to be successful they need to make it much easier for the new player to compete against the masters.  I tell you, this game of chess is going to slowly dry up cause its too hard for new players.</p><p>IMHO, if you can't be a pro after two weeks its not worth doing.</p></blockquote>Your 'analogy' would perhaps have some meaning outside your own mind, if the chess club players you are likening to the PvP level locked MC/fabled twinks replaced all their pawns with queens.  Oh but they don't, do they?  They start each and every game with the exact same pieces, (equipment), as does their opponents, regardless of skill.

Ameniel
03-26-2007, 06:48 PM
<p>Thing is, you can't blame people for lvl locking/twinking & farming noobs. </p><p>This game requires a ridiculous amount of faction to buy pvp gear. Level 20 gear requires roughly 7k faction, that is in the neighborhood of 500 kills. 500 kills by level 20 lol....as fast as it is to level in t2, anyone can see why you would have to lock & farm to meet this quota. </p><p>If you were to leave your xp unlocked and pvped only, you would still lvl, and if you tried to kill mobs/quest for AA, you would lvl so fast that you can't do both(that is, faction for pvp gear and get AAs). Maybe if you just built up a ridiculous amount of debt... /shrug  but if you did that, just easier to level lock...</p><p>You can't get these requirements by just 'pvping as you go along', maybe at the highest tiers but definitely not t2/t3 pvp gear. </p><p>In the end, SoE made these requirements for that gear, so it's not the players' fault but the developers, for encouraging lvl locking/noob farming. </p>

Darlion
03-26-2007, 06:58 PM
<p>First of all, if you are new to the game, don't roll on pvp. It's just not smart. You should at least get a feel for the game and know where some good early leveling places are before you join pvp, or you will get exactly the impression this guy did. There are plenty of ways to play without running into these twink gank squads, and plenty of ways to earn money that will allow you to be on almost even ground to these twinks.</p><p>I rolled a new toon on qeynos side (my two 70 mains are exiled) and played him just for fun, and by the time he was level 20 I already had earned more than 2 plat. That was without harvesting or anything like that. You can do it, just play smart. If all else fails, try and find an instance to have some fun in.</p>

DngrMou
03-26-2007, 10:47 PM
<cite>Ameniel wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Thing is, you can't blame people for lvl locking/twinking & farming noobs. </p><p>This game requires a ridiculous amount of faction to buy pvp gear. Level 20 gear requires roughly 7k faction, that is in the neighborhood of 500 kills. 500 kills by level 20 lol....as fast as it is to level in t2, anyone can see why you would have to lock & farm to meet this quota. </p><p>If you were to leave your xp unlocked and pvped only, you would still lvl, and if you tried to kill mobs/quest for AA, you would lvl so fast that you can't do both(that is, faction for pvp gear and get AAs). Maybe if you just built up a ridiculous amount of debt... /shrug  but if you did that, just easier to level lock...</p><p>You can't get these requirements by just 'pvping as you go along', maybe at the highest tiers but definitely not t2/t3 pvp gear. </p><p>In the end, SoE made these requirements for that gear, so it's not the players' fault but the developers, for encouraging lvl locking/noob farming. </p></blockquote>Lol....yes, It's all SOE's fault.  They 'encourage' you to exploit a weakness in the system.  Whatever, you can justify it however you like, people who take advantage of these kinds of things typically do.  It does'nt change what it is....a massive imbalance, that works to keep new players at a permanent disadvantage. A simple solution, IMO....when someone on a PvP ruleset server locks adventure xp, their level, their gear, their spells are all reduced to the lowest level character they can PvP against.  Slightly below treasured for gear, and App IV for spells.  AA abilities are simply disabled.  Now, other than the rich comedic value of watching the same people in this thread who spend a large amount of time belittling 'whiners' suddenly become the biggest whiners themselves, it will actually level the playing field somewhat, and allow new PvP'ers to actually try...and <gasp>....enjoy the game.

dnice74
03-27-2007, 12:28 AM
<cite>Sinistria wrote:</cite><blockquote>" We are left with a game for only hardcore players where non hardcore are short playlife fodder," this is not true. EQ2 is far far away from being "hardcore". its very easy, you will be taken by hand and guided through the game. everybody can manage it. even with those grey-zergs. all you need is patience and the will to get through. thats all about it. there are no hardcore games out on the market (non as EQ1 i mean) even VG is getting easier and easier and there are already maxe-level or almost maxlevels. 6 weeks after release. EQ2 is much easier. </blockquote><p> Game over. I can't believe I'm even posting in another "eq2 pvp is too hard!" thread, but here I am. Is it perfect? Hell no, but the topic you are talking about has a freaking ton of ways to get around. Instances. Out-of-the way places to level. Questing. Collections. 4 level range in noob zones. If this game was any easier, there would be "summon instant level 50 potions" and a gm would follow you around everywhere. </p><p>Sinistra, bozidar, green and others are 100% correct. The chess analogy was 100% spot on, by the way - you don't know how to play this game. Period. There are TONS of people who will help you, tons of threads, sites, etc to read. Join a guild. Etc, etc, blah blah. </p><p>You are not going to find any sympathy here with whining. This horse has been beaten to death ad infinitum x 10000 billion googleplex times. </p>

Louden1
03-27-2007, 01:38 AM
<p>I'm just returning to EQ2 after a long unsubscribed period, and I read so much about how it sucks to be a new player.</p><p>I don't think the locked twinks that big of an issue, I mean, you can either level past them or lock yourself and try to fight them.</p>

RpTheHotrod
03-27-2007, 03:20 AM
<p>I left pvp for this reason...and I even had a level 70 on the server.</p><p>It's just so pointless...especially with level locking. Nothing but camping and ganking people.</p>

Spyderbite
03-27-2007, 08:52 AM
<cite>Louden121 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I don't think the locked twinks that big of an issue, I mean, you can either level past them or lock yourself and try to fight them.</p></blockquote>Hehe.. this entire long thread.. this sums it up pretty nicely. There isn't really much more to it than exactly what he just said. A lot of people take getting killed by another player very personal. These are the people who will never understand the quote above. It doesn't make them any less of a gamer. PvP is just not for them is all. Level locking is pretty lame when the goal is to farm fame or lowbies. Personally, it seems like a waste of content unless one is just trying to get as many AA's and quests as they can. But, if they're prowling the newbie areas, its unlikely that's their intention. Players new to PvP just need to remember the quote above and live by it until they are leveled past those twinks. Cause when you hit your 20's & 30's and even 40's.. there are a whole new batch of twinks waiting for you there as well. XD

Bozidar
03-27-2007, 10:24 AM
[email protected] Bayle wrote: <blockquote>Bozidar wrote: <blockquote><p>Either you have the guts to stick through it, or you're a whiner and a quitter.. and we're better off without you.</p></blockquote> I kinda hate to break this too you...but no matter how uber you perceive yourself, this is still only a game, and 'guts' do not play a part in it.  It's not a lack of these mythical 'guts' of yours that drive new players away, it's a lack of 'fun'.  Big difference.  </blockquote><p> Some people think fun == easy</p><p>Some of us think that fun == complicated, and difficult</p><p>If you've got no guts, no FORTITUDE if you will, to get through the hard parts, then we're better off without you.  And yes.. there are all kinds of fortitude, and it certainly applies to games too.  Such as being strong enough of will to get through the ganks w/o quitting or letting it spoil the game for you.. instead of beinga  crybaby quitter.. *shrug*</p>

Bozidar
03-27-2007, 10:28 AM
[email protected] Bayle wrote: <blockquote>Lol....yes, It's all SOE's fault.  They 'encourage' you to exploit a weakness in the system.  Whatever, you can justify it however you like, people who take advantage of these kinds of things typically do.  It does'nt change what it is....a massive imbalance, that works to keep new players at a permanent disadvantage. A simple solution, IMO....when someone on a PvP ruleset server locks adventure xp, their level, their gear, their spells are all reduced to the lowest level character they can PvP against.  Slightly below treasured for gear, and App IV for spells.  AA abilities are simply disabled.  Now, other than the rich comedic value of watching the same people in this thread who spend a large amount of time belittling 'whiners' suddenly become the biggest whiners themselves, it will actually level the playing field somewhat, and allow new PvP'ers to actually try...and <gasp>....enjoy the game. </blockquote><p> I don't often get this harsh about it, but you're an idiot.  The simple solution is to rais starting pvp faction so that it requires a lot less kills to get started down the pvp gear path.  Something i've brought up a dozen times.</p><p>LOL, reducing my gear because i lock.. wow.. do you THINK before you type?  How much pvp experience do you even HAVE?</p><p>The playing field is level.. this isn't a FPS, this is an MMO.  The time and money that i put into my toons is part of my playing field.. if you want to compete, learn the game, invest in your toons (note: time AND money), and i'll see you out there...probably at my feet.</p>

Bozidar
03-27-2007, 10:32 AM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote> Players new to PvP just need to remember the quote above and live by it until they are leveled past those twinks. Cause when you hit your 20's & 30's and even 40's.. there are a whole new batch of twinks waiting for you there as well. XD </blockquote><p>Exactly right.</p><p>And when you hit your 40s and 50s.. don't think that that level-locked group of 20's isn't going to gank you still.  Level means less than you think.</p><p>Level up, if you like.. but more importantly LEARN THE GAME!!!!</p><p>This is PvP.. it's twink, or die.. you need AA, you need gear, you need your spells as high as possible, and you need to know HOW to use them!</p><p>Grinding through instances to level 50 will make you as hard to kill as a bot.. or even easier.</p><p>As i said earlier.. learn your enemies.. learn where they fight.. learn how to beat them.  Get a group, learn how to pvp within a group and how to hunt down your foes.. and make them do what the OP here did... make em cry <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p>

DngrMou
03-27-2007, 10:43 AM
<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] Bayle wrote: <blockquote>Bozidar wrote: <blockquote><p>Either you have the guts to stick through it, or you're a whiner and a quitter.. and we're better off without you.</p></blockquote> I kinda hate to break this too you...but no matter how uber you perceive yourself, this is still only a game, and 'guts' do not play a part in it.  It's not a lack of these mythical 'guts' of yours that drive new players away, it's a lack of 'fun'.  Big difference.  </blockquote><p> Some people think fun == easy</p><p>Some of us think that fun == complicated, and difficult</p><p>If you've got no guts, no FORTITUDE if you will, to get through the hard parts, then we're better off without you.  And yes.. there are all kinds of fortitude, and it certainly applies to games too.  Such as being strong enough of will to get through the ganks w/o quitting or letting it spoil the game for you.. instead of beinga  crybaby quitter.. *shrug*</p></blockquote>Fortitude in the way of what?  A two liter bottle of coke and a bag of cheetos?  Rofl  Dude...it's a game.  One that requires nothing more demanding of you than sitting down, and pushing buttons.  You're no more uber, no braver, no more elite than your six year old neighbor that sits down to play My Little Pony Island Adventure.  Get over yourself.

Sinistria
03-27-2007, 10:48 AM
[email protected] Bayle wrote: <blockquote>Fortitude in the way of what?  A two liter bottle of coke and a bag of cheetos?  Rofl  Dude...it's a game.  One that requires nothing more demanding of you than sitting down, and pushing buttons.  You're no more uber, no braver, no more elite than your six year old neighbor that sits down to play My Little Pony Island Adventure.  Get over yourself. </blockquote>if it were like this, there were only PvP servers caus nobody would cry for PvE-servers. when MMORPG started some centuries ago (i think it was in medieval) there were only PvP servers. PvE servers just came caus people were crieng for beeing killed by other players with more skill, (faster finger if you want it like that). so there is a different between us and the six year old neighboors boy playing feed the pony (he had birthday yesterdy and is now 7. He PKed some PvE on their PvE - server. UBOR ; OWNED)

Bozidar
03-27-2007, 10:48 AM
[email protected] Bayle wrote: <blockquote>Fortitude in the way of what?  A two liter bottle of coke and a bag of cheetos?  Rofl  Dude...it's a game.  One that requires nothing more demanding of you than sitting down, and pushing buttons.  You're no more uber, no braver, no more elite than your six year old neighbor that sits down to play My Little Pony Island Adventure.  Get over yourself. </blockquote><p> Hmm.. you say that.. and yet, my six year old neighbor and you both would cry a lot when killed in a game and take it too personally.</p><p>Hmm.. seems like maybe you're wrong.</p><p>I don't think i'm uber, or brave.  Just not a quitter, and when things seem difficult i don't go to the forums and start a biotching thread about a game i don't have the maturity to play.</p><p>All of those out there that are <i>not</i> quitters, please step forward... Youris, not so fast.. </p>

ZUES
03-27-2007, 10:49 AM
<cite>Palleon wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Here's an "out the box" suggestion for you.</p><p>Roll a character on Darathar, the UK / Euro PvP server (just select EU at the launchpad before logging in).</p><p>There is a tiny population here, so you wont get ganked and can level up pretty fast, most times not even seeing someone from the other side. We have virtually no level locked twinks either, and the low level names arent camped.</p><p>SOE have said that Soon (tm) they will provide free transfers to Nagafen or Venekor (the US pvp servers). </p><p>When this offer finally comes, you get to move your levelled up and well equiped PvP character over to the main servers for free. You wont have been ganked, you will have learnt the game, you'll find small groups of other new players levelling up (we have at least 5 sub 20 players in our guild so I know there are low levels playing and questing) and you will be ready to take on the more "hardcore" of the EQ2 pvp playerbase <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p></blockquote><p>That's actually a really good idea. </p><p>As far as the thread is concerned......</p><p>To just say "stop whining" and "quit your crying noob" is just nonsense. This is a discussion thread and not a target for pvpers that disagree to just dismiss the opinions of those new players joining your servers. I have 2 level 70 toons and many alts near 50. I'm no newb by any means. But going to a new aspect of the game that has been exploited beyond belief is no fun to me. I tried it, I hated it. I'm sorry but that's just my opinion. </p><p>The difference is if anyone wants to come to Mistmoore server I would not only welcome them but I would possibly give them some money, collections and advice. We "need" more people on our server so the more the merrier. High end raid guilds are few and far between. Why wouldn't you want a higher population on your servers? Realize that by level locking toons it makes it much harder to appeal to new players on your servers. But that's just my opinion. /shrug </p>

DngrMou
03-27-2007, 10:55 AM
<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] Bayle wrote: <blockquote>Fortitude in the way of what?  A two liter bottle of coke and a bag of cheetos?  Rofl  Dude...it's a game.  One that requires nothing more demanding of you than sitting down, and pushing buttons.  You're no more uber, no braver, no more elite than your six year old neighbor that sits down to play My Little Pony Island Adventure.  Get over yourself. </blockquote><p> Hmm.. you say that.. and yet, my six year old neighbor and you both would cry a lot when killed in a game and take it too personally.</p><p>Hmm.. seems like maybe you're wrong.</p><p>I don't think i'm uber, or brave.  Just not a quitter, and when things seem difficult i don't go to the forums and start a biotching thread about a game i don't have the maturity to play.</p><p>All of those out there that are <i>not</i> quitters, please step forward... Youris, not so fast.. </p></blockquote>You're still just a little slow on this one point.  If it's not fun for new players, they won't play.  You can justify all day and night your 'farming' of noobs.  Paint yourself as a modern day hero, defend your exploiting of game mechanics to your advantage.  You can belittle anyone that disagrees with you, (and then claim they're not mature enough to play a video game), you can do all that and more.  And at the end of the day, if the game is not fun for new players, they won't play.  Your solution, call them names.  Now if that is'nt a display of maturity, (or lack thereof), I just don't know what is.   

Sinistria
03-27-2007, 11:01 AM
remove lvl-locking! if someone REALY MUST play with his lowlvlefriends, he can /mentor. (nit exact the same, but still working in instances) no need for lvl-locking then in building up gank-squads. send them to lvl 70 when well organized guilds are hanging around and farming zones for loot and i want to see screenshots of their faces man... i am so bored. i could post all day around. work can s u c k <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Bozidar
03-27-2007, 11:09 AM
[email protected] Bayle wrote: <blockquote>You're still just a little slow on this one point.  If it's not fun for new players, they won't play.  You can justify all day and night your 'farming' of noobs.  Paint yourself as a modern day hero, defend your exploiting of game mechanics to your advantage.  You can belittle anyone that disagrees with you, (and then claim they're not mature enough to play a video game), you can do all that and more.  And at the end of the day, if the game is not fun for new players, they won't play.  Your solution, call them names.  Now if that is'nt a display of maturity, (or lack thereof), I just don't know what is.    </blockquote><p> Something you're missing here.  I joined PvP as a new player.  It was my first MMO since a text-based MUD back in 1993.  I don't "farm" noobs, i kill enemies.  any that i can, and get away from those i can't.  I'm not exploiting a [Removed for Content] thing.  SOE designed the PVP game so that if you want to attain pvp gear at lvl 20 you need to have 600 kills or something like that.  So i'm playing my T2 toons until they have that faction requirement sent, and then (as i'm working on now) i'm moving that team to lvl 20.  Then 23 when we all have the faction for that.  Then 27.. then 30.</p><p>The game was fun for me as a new player.  I got ganked tons, i had no idea how to play half my classes i choose and had no idea how to use them in a group.  Was the ultimate newb of all newbs.. but i played, stuck through the [Removed for Content] parts, and kept trying.  Then i learned..   I gave very good advice above on how to roll out on pvp as a new player.  Advice I never had.  I honestly hope that folks read it and take it to heart, because they'll learn it the hard way like i did if they don't.</p><p>But people who don't PLAY pvp (and whine) or who leveled through all the content (and whine), and all the high population pvp.. or who are all at 70 and think that being 70 is just the KEWLEST (and whine).. yeah, i belittle them because they can't see what a great pvp game this really is.  They see something they can't make use of, and enjoy (like locking for faction/AA) and so the tears start, and then the sobbing.. and ohmygosh get some tissues quick!  Yes.. they get belittled.</p>

DngrMou
03-27-2007, 11:14 AM
<cite>Sinistria wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] Bayle wrote: <blockquote>Fortitude in the way of what?  A two liter bottle of coke and a bag of cheetos?  Rofl  Dude...it's a game.  One that requires nothing more demanding of you than sitting down, and pushing buttons.  You're no more uber, no braver, no more elite than your six year old neighbor that sits down to play My Little Pony Island Adventure.  Get over yourself. </blockquote>if it were like this, there were only PvP servers caus nobody would cry for PvE-servers. when MMORPG started some centuries ago (i think it was in medieval) there were only PvP servers. PvE servers just came caus people were crieng for beeing killed by other players with more skill, (faster finger if you want it like that). so there is a different between us and the six year old neighboors boy playing feed the pony (he had birthday yesterdy and is now 7. He PKed some PvE on their PvE - server. UBOR ; OWNED) </blockquote> Gemstone III.  Text based MMORPG, non pvp.  It predated most of the internet, (the only way to play was through the nascent online services of the day, like GEnie....I knew some people that dropped several hundred dollars per month to do do).  PvP came later.  With EQII, PvE came first, and PvP was tacked on as an afterthought, with predictable results.  It has promise, and it is attractive from a player viewpoint, but it needs some work.

DngrMou
03-27-2007, 11:19 AM
<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] Bayle wrote: <blockquote>You're still just a little slow on this one point.  If it's not fun for new players, they won't play.  You can justify all day and night your 'farming' of noobs.  Paint yourself as a modern day hero, defend your exploiting of game mechanics to your advantage.  You can belittle anyone that disagrees with you, (and then claim they're not mature enough to play a video game), you can do all that and more.  And at the end of the day, if the game is not fun for new players, they won't play.  Your solution, call them names.  Now if that is'nt a display of maturity, (or lack thereof), I just don't know what is.    </blockquote><p> Something you're missing here.  I joined PvP as a new player.  It was my first MMO since a text-based MUD back in 1993.  I don't "farm" noobs, i kill enemies.  any that i can, and get away from those i can't.  I'm not exploiting a [I cannot control my vocabulary] thing.  SOE designed the PVP game so that if you want to attain pvp gear at lvl 20 you need to have 600 kills or something like that.  So i'm playing my T2 toons until they have that faction requirement sent, and then (as i'm working on now) i'm moving that team to lvl 20.  Then 23 when we all have the faction for that.  Then 27.. then 30.</p><p>The game was fun for me as a new player.  I got ganked tons, i had no idea how to play half my classes i choose and had no idea how to use them in a group.  Was the ultimate newb of all newbs.. but i played, stuck through the [I cannot control my vocabulary] parts, and kept trying.  Then i learned..   I gave very good advice above on how to roll out on pvp as a new player.  Advice I never had.  I honestly hope that folks read it and take it to heart, because they'll learn it the hard way like i did if they don't.</p><p>But people who don't PLAY pvp (and whine) or who leveled through all the content (and whine), and all the high population pvp.. or who are all at 70 and think that being 70 is just the KEWLEST (and whine).. yeah, i belittle them because they can't see what a great pvp game this really is.  They see something they can't make use of, and enjoy (like locking for faction/AA) and so the tears start, and then the sobbing.. and ohmygosh get some tissues quick!  Yes.. they get belittled.</p></blockquote>And when people take issue with your non-exploiting exploit, and come looking for help, what do they get from the likes of you, exactly?  As you pause to wipe your greasy cheeto stained fingers on the shirt mom laundered for you just last week, go back to page one of this thread, and review your first post.    The biggest whiner in this thread has been you.  You feel threatened...you know you're uber fights are against other players that stand zero chance against you, and any suggestion this imbalance be rectified is met with nothing but emotion charged rhetoric from you.

Sinistria
03-27-2007, 11:24 AM
ok, i dont know that text-game. but already meridian59 had pvp (in a time an internet-connection was unusual). ( <a href="http://meridian59.neardeathstudios.com/ " target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://meridian59.neardeathstudios.com/ </a> ) UO had pvp and added non-pvp (trammel) later. caus people cried about it. and EQ1 already started without pvp since people wanted the easy way. so at least its no the same like playing: gank the pony

Bozidar
03-27-2007, 11:42 AM
[email protected] Bayle wrote: <blockquote>And when people take issue with your non-exploiting exploit, and <span style="color: #993300">come looking for help</span>, what do they get from the likes of you, exactly?  As you pause to wipe your greasy cheeto stained fingers on the shirt mom laundered for you just last week, go back to page one of this thread, and review your first post.    The biggest whiner in this thread has been you.  You feel threatened...you know you're uber fights are against other players that stand zero chance against you, and any suggestion this imbalance be rectified is met with nothing but emotion charged rhetoric from you.</blockquote><p> No one comes looking for help here on the forums.  They come to cry about it, like the OP.</p><p>When folks in game ask for help, it's an entirely different issue.  Recently spent about 10 plat on an SK who let me mentor him for a few levels in CL to get AA, he was looking pretty good and doing well last time i saw him.</p><p>The OP slandered a game he sucks at, and didn't take the time or energy to get good at, so he provoked said response from me, and many others. </p><p>No one here, who knows thing 1 about pvp in this game, is suggesting any reasonable way to recitfy an imbalance, they're crying about a game that's too tough for them to get started in.  Awww.. as a recently popular thread was titled, cry more, noob.  There's nothing here for me to feel threatened about other than people slandering a game they don't understand.</p><p>And btw.. i fight against players that have no chance against me.  I also fight against greater numbers, and higher level classes that, if they didn't suck, should be able to beat me but don't.  Because i've learned it's a group game, and how to work within my groups, and how to build a good group.  I fight against players ridiculously higher in level than my group and I are.. </p><p>the "noob ganking" that you think occurs (at least in my experience) is only to fill the time between the fights i really enjoy.  The ones where the Qs come at us with a group, and leave with a loss of fame.. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

DngrMou
03-27-2007, 12:16 PM
<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>No one comes looking for help here on the forums.  <span style="color: #ff0000">They come to cry about it, like the OP.</span> <p><span style="color: #ff0000">The OP slandered a game he sucks at, and didn't take the time or energy to get good at, so he provoked said response from me,</span> and many others. </p></blockquote>Why would you respond with the equivalent of 'sftu noob' when it's obvious he does'nt understand the game?  How many other new PvP'ers do you think might come across your little vignettes, and be dissuaded from asking their own questions?  How many potential PvP'ers might be browsing these forums and be convinced not to even try because of stuff like this.  You said you help people, but your posts so far suggest the opposite....if they disagree with you, or complain about the game, they're called whiners, quitters, and crybabies.  You can drop ten plat helping someone in game, but can't keep your own temper in check long enough to offer some constructive tips, instead of thoughtless insults that will certainly have a larger impact on new player numbers than your generosity in game?

ZUES
03-27-2007, 12:53 PM
I agree. Quit flaming people cause it just shows how immature you really are. Let them express their thoughts on this and if you dont have anything constructive to add them dont reply.

Alycs
03-27-2007, 01:39 PM
I started on Venekor a few weeks after it opened up. I've enjoyed it. Luckily, I can twink out my alts. I'm one of the wierd ones though....as an RP'er, each of my characters is seperate from the others.  Meaning, though one sells...the others sell through her and get the coin back. That said..I DO have a level locked.  And it's not for farming fame or status or anything that simple. I've got a transmuter.  I refuse to pay the ridiculous prices for stuff.  Thus, I farm nameds. That said. Met someone who not only was new to the server, but new to the game.  Her husband wasn't.  So, what did I do when she started complaining about getting ganked repeatedly?  Showed her how to farm the same names I was.  I also gave her suggestions on how to deal with the frustration of the uberownage that she was goign through.  Shoot, one of my housemates plays on Venekor as well, and is tired of getting ganked by folks lower level than his char.  And he's as twinked out as my characters are.  /shrugs Happens to me and I've got as twinked out chars as I possibly can atm. I can understand WHY people new to the PvP servers would be upset and just turn around and leave after a few weeks.  Being new to a PvP server is hard when there are so many characters out there who've been geared up with awesome stuff, to include their ca's or spells. I can understand why people leave after only a short period of time.  And yes, people can decry it saying their blubies or carebears or what have you.  Flat out...it's not true.  It's the frustration levels of someone who can't catch a break to save their lives.  This IS a game and games are supposed to be fun.  When it's not fun, it's not played.  If someone isn't having fun getting killed over and over and over ad nauseaum, then they don't play.  And then people complain about the lack of people on a server.  Now, I'm not saying to be easier on the enemy.  What I AM saying is mostly for the new folks, it really does get better once you've settled into your character and get better gear.  It IS possible to get better gear.  You will STILL get owned by someone in better gear.  If you're on Venekor, look up Chai, Dejenchri or Nocens...uhm..you'll have to be in Freeport to do so...and I'll give you a few more pointers on surviving the lower levels and enjoying PvP. You might ask around as well.  There are a lot of cool folks out there that are willing to help someone enjoy this addiction we call a game.

Bozidar
03-27-2007, 01:40 PM
<p>Roger.. let them say ignorant and non-constructive things about the game I play.  But unless i have nothing constructive to say (which if you read this thread you'll find 2 or 3 very constructive posts) i should just [Removed for Content]. </p><p>Got it, message received.<img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Sarpedonx
03-27-2007, 01:56 PM
I think there have been several constructive things said in this thread. 1) level locking = no fun for beginners to pvp = less people playing = bad 2) imbalances throughout pvp - game mechanics geared towards pve do not translate easily to pvp 3) imho it appears the developers dont give a ratsass about pvp, never any feedback 4) chess is just like eq2, kasparov is a lvl 70 swashy IRL 5) roll a scout, s t f u noob, L2P, comments are not constructive...but calling someone a whiner and saying it takes "Guts" and "Determination" to play on a pvp server is worse than non-constructive, it deters people from playing on YOUR ghost-town of a server

DngrMou
03-27-2007, 01:56 PM
<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Roger.. let them say ignorant and non-constructive things about the game I play.  But unless i have nothing constructive to say (which if you read this thread you'll find 2 or 3 very constructive posts) i should just [I cannot control my vocabulary]. </p><p>Got it, message received.<img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p></blockquote><p> Tact.  It's the art of being able to tell someone to go to hell, and make them -happy- that they're on their way.  </p><p>The game is not you, and when someone says something ignorant about the game, (ignorance = lack of knowledge), there are far better ways of dealing with it than calling them 'crybaby quitters'.  You'll do a much greater service to this game, and it's community by biting your tongue, and offering up constructive ideas.  You want to call the OP a crybaby quitter, then send him a tell.</p>

StrollingWolf
03-27-2007, 02:06 PM
<p>I would have to agree that this board could definitely use less name calling <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>So let's try to discuss topics without name-calling or telling each other "go cry more n00b." There seems to be a lot of that, and it often times results in derailing threads into useless bickering. </p><p>Thanks.</p>

Zacarus
03-27-2007, 10:11 PM
What would happen on Nagafen if: 1. SOE suspended in game email for a month? 2. SOE suspended in game $ xfers for a month?

Sinistria
03-28-2007, 03:26 AM
Kasparov is a lvl 70 swashi in real. that one made me laugh. <img src="/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> cry more n00b <hr /><img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Xova
03-28-2007, 06:30 PM
[email protected] Bayle wrote: <blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Roger.. let them say ignorant and non-constructive things about the game I play.  But unless i have nothing constructive to say (which if you read this thread you'll find 2 or 3 very constructive posts) i should just [I cannot control my vocabulary]. </p><p>Got it, message received.<img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p></blockquote><p> Tact.  It's the art of being able to tell someone to go to hell, and make them -happy- that they're on their way.  </p><p>The game is not you, and when someone says something ignorant about the game, (ignorance = lack of knowledge), there are far better ways of dealing with it than calling them 'crybaby quitters'.  You'll do a much greater service to this game, and it's community by biting your tongue, and offering up constructive ideas.  You want to call the OP a crybaby quitter, then send him a tell.</p></blockquote><p>In Bozidar's defense, he has made NUMEROUS posts on this forum that have been extremely helpful and constructive, mostly aimed at helping new players like the OP understand what they need to do in order to survive in the twink's paradise that is EQ2 PvP, to the point that he has offered to gear up, teach, assist, etc. to anyone who wishes to roll on Vox, Freeport side. I think that after one too many posts from yet another new player who denounces the game without having really given it a shot, he's entitled to be a little testy. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>That said, if the OP and any other new players are still reading by this point, EQ2 PvP can be rough in the lower levels. Hell, it can be rough in the higher levels too! Even my T7 Fury Dreadnaught in all Fabled gear gets rolled occasionally. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>The bottom line is you have to remember that you are competing with other players, and that being in this competitive environment means that players will do whatever they can to give themselves an edge over the opposition. That means twinking out, being in Mastrercrafted/Legendrary/Fabled gear, having Master 1/Adept 3 spells, using potions, totems, etc.</p><p>Understand too that a big part of success in this game also lies in knowing how to play your class. Just becasue a class seems like easy-mode doesn't mean that it is, and just because another class seems a little harder doesn't mean that it is. Case in point I play on Vox where the sale of characters is legal via Station Exchange. I had a friend buy a lvl70 Brigand in full Fabled gear, with a Master title to boot. This toon was about as twinked as they come. And my friend sucked so bad at the class that he lost his Master title in a matter of days. By contrast I play a lvl70 Exiled Defiler with no title, yet I managed to hold my own and survive against a full group of lvl70 players until the cavalry arrived. (And let me tell you running around the spires with 2% health trying to dodge a warlock hell-bent on Rift'ing you is about as exhilirating as it gets! <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)</p><p>The first 20 levels are going to be the roughest no doubt for a new player because you get on and start doing all the quests around the newbie Island, then you head into your city and do those quests. And finally you venture into the zones just outside the city...right around lvl10...and BAM! You get your first taste of EQ2 PvP in the form of a lvl14 Fae Destroyer that's got better gear for their level than most T7 raiders.</p><p>Is it fair? No. Is it frustrating? Yes. Does it mean you should give up? Not at all. What it does mean is that you should really ask yourself if you want to give EQ2 PvP a good, honest try, or if being ganked and dying (sometimes repeatedly) is too much to put up with. If it's the latter, then EQ2 PvP is not for you and you are better off rolling on a PvE server. But, if you can get over the first few gankings and keep at it, you just might find that it's not so bad and that it can actually be fun.</p><p>If you really want to give EQ2 a good, solid, honest try, then do it. Grit your teeth and get through the lowbie levels. Learn to harvest or tradeskill so that you can rely on yourself for your gear and equipment. MAKE FRIENDS!!! I cannot stress that enough; EQ2 is a group game and if you really want to be a success you will need friends to help you get there. So find people to play with, join a guild, etc. Getting ganked in the Graveyard or the Caves while you try to quest? Ask in level chat if someone can lend you a helping hand. Don't be afraid to ask questions of more experienced PvP'ers. That lvl70 Dreadnaught on the Nightmare horse sitting around WFP probably wouldn't mind answering a few questions or giving out some useful advice. Believe me there are plenty of us out there that are more than willing to spare some time and energy to help a new player join our cause. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>And most importantly - LEARN TO PLAY. Practice your skills and spells - take note that some have different effects in PvP than they do in PvE. Learn about your stats and figure out which ones are most important for your character and class. Learn about your Achievements and start customizing your character. Experiment with different weapons, gear, jewelry, etc. Just because it says FABLED doesn't mean it's always better! Learn what quests give what rewards, or which mobs drop what loot. A lot of PvP'er forsake the PvE game and in this aspect hardcore PvE players from "blue" servers often have the edge, so use that to your advantage!</p><p>Simply put, think of your character as an investment into your entertainment and then work at making it the best it can be.And remember that at the end of the day EQ2 is just a game and that games are meant to be fun. So learn to play the game and have fun at it. </p>

Captain Apple Darkberry
03-28-2007, 07:24 PM
<p><span style="color: #ff3300">I think what folks new PvP need to realize is that it is that PvP is the same game, just less forgiving...</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff3300">You say that twinked out players see you and squish you like a bug...?  On the PvP server, the ^^^'s are not just mobs, they are twinks, and these ^^^'s don't ignore you because you are standing just out of agro range...   ...rendering distance is agro range for PvP ~mobs~.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff3300">Once you realize this fact, that the ~mobs~ are use real intelligence (I use that term veeeeeeery loosely =P ) and not AI, then you will become less frustrated as you will understand why things are so ~different and frustrating~.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff3300">Its a world where people are TRYING to kill you.  You can't be unprepared...   ...well you can, but you will die more.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff3300">If you can die without getting upset, then you can enjoy PvP...   ...if not, then you will probably hate it.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff3300">A couple of ~tactics~...   ...level past the locked twinks, they will be too busy corpse humping noobs in the Caves to miss you when you move on.  Another tactic is instead of leveling past them, slow down instead; spend a week getting ganked silly while you harvest rares for gear/spells.  then when you have what you need, suit up and go fight.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff3300">I personally could never play on a blue server again...   ...it would seem stale to me.</span></p>

Spyderbite
03-28-2007, 11:32 PM
Captain Apple Darkberry wrote: <blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff3300">I personally could never play on a blue server again...   ...it would seem stale to me.</span></p></blockquote> QFT.... I haven't played PvE (Or PvM as it used to be termed) in any game in several years. When I created a character in EQ2, I started on a blue server because the friends that introduced me to the game were established there. I was bored out of my mind inside of 10 minutes. Worse, no matter how hard I mashed my mouse button on the those annoying me I wasn't allowed to attack them. I was rolled and out enjoying myself on Venekor, gank victim and all, that same evening and haven't looked back. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Bozidar
03-29-2007, 02:34 AM
<cite>Xova wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] Bayle wrote: <blockquote>Tact.  It's the art of being able to tell someone to go to hell, and make them -happy- that they're on their way.  <p>The game is not you, and when someone says something ignorant about the game, (ignorance = lack of knowledge), there are far better ways of dealing with it than calling them 'crybaby quitters'.  You'll do a much greater service to this game, and it's community by biting your tongue, and offering up constructive ideas.  You want to call the OP a crybaby quitter, then send him a tell.</p></blockquote><p>In Bozidar's defense, he has made NUMEROUS posts on this forum that have been extremely helpful and constructive, mostly aimed at helping new players like the OP understand what they need to do in order to survive in the twink's paradise that is EQ2 PvP, to the point that he has offered to gear up, teach, assist, etc. to anyone who wishes to roll on Vox, Freeport side. I think that after one too many posts from yet another new player who denounces the game without having really given it a shot, he's entitled to be a little testy. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p></blockquote><p>lol, thanks for the support, Tari <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  In my own... prosecution? LOL  I should try to curb my reactions to things like this thread.  It's just that i see a threat entitled "new players  - don't bother" and it gets under my skin.  I think that new players will see this thread and read the first post.. and give up on pvp before they even really try it.  Heck, that's the INTENT of the OP here.</p><p>Like that thread by wreakin.  Slandering Vox, oh so ignorantly, in a time when folks might be looking at Vox as an alternative server.   At least with his post i can hope there are some FPs on other servers that read how he is and want to come to Vox just to gank his face off.. </p><p>Neither PvP nor our server need folks bad mouthing them on the forums <i>from a standpoint of ignorance</i>.  Bring up legit griefs.. no question.. but ignorance like this slandered around makes my curly hairs stand up straight <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  But that's my problem.. as Youris says above.. tact.</p><p>Just wish there was a way to tactfully change the topic of the thread to be something of of a discussion about new players and how PVP is for them, rather than an advertisement to go away.</p><p>Anyway, thx again for the backup from Vox's expert forum lawyer <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  But i'm gonna try to do as youris and strolly suggest and try to throw around a few less "cry more"s and "n00b"s.  Won't stop with the "get a group" s though <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  It's a group game... </p><p>Edited my first post in this thread to provide a little more help/encouragement for a new player, should any read it.. but i still think the title of the thread itself is inflamitory (on purpose) to those of us concerened with the pvp population</p>

Greenion
03-29-2007, 03:15 AM
<p><span style="color: #339900">quite true, title of the thread written by someone not at all understanding the pvp system clearly discouraging others...</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">...so...peeps that know try to tell them how to play...</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">and then...roflz, they argue with them and say thats not how the game should be...</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">instead of...learning how to play...and playing.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">we get a thread like this at least once a week, ive explained the same thing at least 100 times to 100 new players that nearly all invariably tell me...</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">"but i dont want to have to harvest and/or craft"</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">well...ok by me...um...<i>since your method already seems to be working for you<b>?</b></i></span></p>

Oneira
03-29-2007, 07:28 AM
If I can offer my attempt to rephrase the topic in terms that are not quite so negative, let me make a few observations. It is true that new players coming to PvP servers are at a terrible disadvantage, and it is neither fair nor constructive to just dismiss this by telling them to play the twink game or level out. That disadvantage has gotten worse, because the twinking in t2 has escalated.  No longer will outfitting yourself in full MC gear and CAs/spells put you on a level with the twinkie crowd.   Most twinks are now sporting not only master 1s (which cost an insane amount of platinum that very fewplayers can touch), several piecies of legendary and fabled gear, PLUS the new trend, adornments on almost every piece of equipment that proc damage shields, etc. etc. that are themselves going for at least 1-2 pp on the broker.  Not to mention the disproportionate amount of AAs they have earned by level locking at 10, building up their debt,  and knowing exactly which quests to do to get the maximum AA xp. I know this because I have a level-locked 17 brigand who is in MC with adept IIIs, and I have come to realize that even I can't compete with these incredibly over-twinked toons.  I am regularly seeing level 13 and 15 toons (over half of whom are wardens and furies) taking on well-geared foes at least 3 or 4 levels higher than they are, sometimes 2 or more at a time, and winning more often than not.   The escalation of the twinking is reaching levels that make it utterly and absolutely impossible for the regular t2 toon to win. period.  It *has* gotten out of hand, and for me to compete, i guess I'll just have to get out of hand too.  I guess i'l just have to upgrade even more.  It has become a factory for grinding out super-twinks.  Of course there was always players like that around, but what's different now is the rapid increase in their numbers.  Even a somewhat experienced player who takes his t2 toon out there is simply getting thrown to the wolves. So just level out!  You're forgetting something when you answer like that: faction.  500 kills is the minimum number of kills you need to afford any pvp gear for t3, and 700 is probably more accurate.   If i level up, then I have just given up my chance to get pvp gear unless I level lock again. But then the bar is raised, now it's 1000 kills that are necessary, and so on.  There is something of a vicious circle in this, with few alternatives.  I'll deal with it until I get enough kills to get the hell out of there, and believe me, when I get there i'll leave t2 twinkie-land faster than a speeding warden.  But realise ppl that there is a problem here, and it's not going to go away anytime soon, and leveling up really isn't a solution, it's actually more of a recognition of the impossibility of the situation and of the need to move on if you're going to have any fun in this game at all.  It also means you can forget those nice pvp rewards for a long time. It's hard for me to make suggestions that aren't platitudes.  Group more, get all the help you can....what else is there to say?  Not much really.

Captain Apple Darkberry
03-29-2007, 12:35 PM
<cite>Oneira wrote:</cite><blockquote>If I can offer my attempt to rephrase the topic in terms that are not quite so negative, let me make a few observations. It is true that new players coming to PvP servers are at a terrible disadvantage, and it is neither fair nor constructive to just dismiss this by telling them to play the twink game or level out. That disadvantage has gotten worse, because the twinking in t2 has escalated.  No longer will outfitting yourself in full MC gear and CAs/spells put you on a level with the twinkie crowd.   Most twinks are now sporting not only master 1s (which cost an insane amount of platinum that very fewplayers can touch), several piecies of legendary and fabled gear, PLUS the new trend, adornments on almost every piece of equipment that proc damage shields, etc. etc. that are themselves going for at least 1-2 pp on the broker.  Not to mention the disproportionate amount of AAs they have earned by level locking at 10, building up their debt,  and knowing exactly which quests to do to get the maximum AA xp. I know this because I have a level-locked 17 brigand who is in MC with adept IIIs, and I have come to realize that even I can't compete with these incredibly over-twinked toons.  I am regularly seeing level 13 and 15 toons (over half of whom are wardens and furies) taking on well-geared foes at least 3 or 4 levels higher than they are, sometimes 2 or more at a time, and winning more often than not.   The escalation of the twinking is reaching levels that make it utterly and absolutely impossible for the regular t2 toon to win. period.  It *has* gotten out of hand, and for me to compete, i guess I'll just have to get out of hand too.  I guess i'l just have to upgrade even more.  It has become a factory for grinding out super-twinks.  Of course there was always players like that around, but what's different now is the rapid increase in their numbers.  Even a somewhat experienced player who takes his t2 toon out there is simply getting thrown to the wolves. So just level out!  You're forgetting something when you answer like that: faction.  500 kills is the minimum number of kills you need to afford any pvp gear for t3, and 700 is probably more accurate.   If i level up, then I have just given up my chance to get pvp gear unless I level lock again. But then the bar is raised, now it's 1000 kills that are necessary, and so on.  There is something of a vicious circle in this, with few alternatives.  I'll deal with it until I get enough kills to get the hell out of there, and believe me, when I get there i'll leave t2 twinkie-land faster than a speeding warden.  But realise ppl that there is a problem here, and it's not going to go away anytime soon, and leveling up really isn't a solution, it's actually more of a recognition of the impossibility of the situation and of the need to move on if you're going to have any fun in this game at all.  It also means you can forget those nice pvp rewards for a long time. It's hard for me to make suggestions that aren't platitudes.  Group more, get all the help you can....what else is there to say?  Not much really. </blockquote><p> <span style="color: #ff3300">Trust me, I dislike twinks, and level locking...   ...but they aren't a problem, they are an effect of the way the game is set up.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff3300">So dislike them all you want, they are part of the game as much as fabled out raid tanks are...</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff3300">I don;t think anyone here has said that twinks don't make the game harder for new folks, they do...   ...but not that much.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff3300">I wanted to take a break from my main on Venekor, so I rolled a toon on Nagafen.  Hit level 10 in a few hours and went to the caves.  I was one shotted, two shotted, rolled by groups, humped by those who were too high to attack me...   ...repeatedly.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff3300">I didn't take it to heart.  I just kept fighting, offering support for the twinks of my faction.  When not doing this, I spent time harvesting and selling.  Within a week I had over 10p in the bank...   ...this doesn;t count the rares I used to craft my upgrades.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff3300">Its easy to twink yourself, even now.  Actually more so now than ever, as you can make a killing on the market feeding the e-peens of the T2 level locked emote spamming corpse (and sometimes not a corpse) humpers...</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff3300">So sorry...   ...it IS supposed to be harder.   But it is no different that the discrepency between the PvE raider having all the gear and the M1's and the PvE casual having Adept 3's.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff3300">One of the things I like so much is that you can't expect even or fair fights...   ...if you could, it would be little better than PvE.</span></p>

Bozidar
03-29-2007, 02:41 PM
<p>Oneira:</p><p>You plead a good case, no doubt, but i think you overstate it.  Someone who gets 3 crafting toons up to lvl 19 (scholar, outfitter, and craftsman) can make anything they need.  You can make every thing for every slot, including adorns, for T2.  Someone who's in some legendary some fabled gear with the same adorns, vs someone who's in mostly MC.. yeah.. the geared out guy who prepared his toon more will have somewhat of an advantage in T2.</p><p>But a druid will 9/10 times still beat just about anything.  That's how T2 has been for EVER, when it comes to 1v1 pvp.  A tank, if played right, should still kill a scout even with that MC gear disadvantage.  A wizard will still kill a tank.  A scout should still kill a wizard.</p><p>If you play your classes right, and learn the game, and practice... you should be able to overcome the gear differential when you have the class advantage.  But we're still talking about 1v1 here.. which i hate to do.</p><p>The only way a group of "supertwinks" beats a group of "Mastercraftedtwinks" is if the supertwinks know the game better and build their group better.  Tactics and skill in group pvp, IMO, are more important than the gear difference between MC and Legend/fabled. (and there may be a guy out there in full T2 fabled.. and if so, some of his gear is probably worse than MC... but you don't get full fabled in T2 so the differential in gear isn't incredible)</p><p>Honestly... i don't think if you take the time to get your adept III's, MC armor, and build your group the right way that you should have any problem in T2.  Will you get beat?  Yes... but if you catch them at the right time you can turn the tables on the same groups that beat you in the first place.  No one's going to solo a group of 4 guys who know what they're doing in T2.  Not even a druid.</p><p>Btw, the biggest problem in T2 is when you have a guy running around on a horse that gives him 200 to all his resists <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I should know, i have 2 of em in T2.. and i think they should probably put an adventuring level limit on horses if they don't do what i'm about to re-mention below.</p><p>on a side note, i've previously suggested that pvp shouldn't begin until lvl 20.  I think that level is the previously defined threshold for class defining features, and should probably be the threshold for pvp.  Folks don't like it, they like T2 pvp.. i understand that.  But if you don't give folks a chance to grow into the toon and learn how to use it, you can't really expect them to compete.</p><p>And to oneira's point above about faction.. they should raise the starting faction limit so that you don't need 500 kills to get T3 pvp gear.  keep the differential between T3 and beyond the same.. but shorten the amount that T2 guys have to catch up in order to get to T3.  This isn't a PvE issue.. it can be adjusted without affecting anyone but PVP servers, and could help alieviate the problems in T2--imo.</p>

S
03-30-2007, 07:27 AM
Some kind of solution for that "Twink problem" may be exp gain for pvp kill. Small amount of exp. but then peole can't lock they toons for a long time in one level.

Bozidar
03-30-2007, 09:44 AM
<cite>SFR wrote:</cite><blockquote>Some kind of solution for that "Twink problem" may be exp gain for pvp kill. Small amount of exp. but then peole can't lock they toons for a long time in one level. </blockquote><p> This will only reduce the amount of pvp out there.  Instead of going out and fighting other players, they'll stay in crafting instances when they get too close to leveling.  Or they'll start farming for the next identical toon they're going to twink out after they delete the one that's leveled to far.</p><p>Pvp will be reduced by this idea, IMO.</p><p>Yes, my idea to move the lvl limit for pvp to 20th will also reduce pvp <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  but it will improve it too, not make it so that folks are looking for one more exploit.</p>

S
03-30-2007, 11:08 AM
<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>This will only reduce the amount of pvp out there.  </p></blockquote>But if you remove all twink this also will reduce pvp amount<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> All measure to solve this problem will reduce pvp amount IMO.

Bozidar
03-30-2007, 11:11 AM
<cite>SFR wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>This will only reduce the amount of pvp out there.  </p></blockquote>But if you remove all twink this also will reduce pvp amount<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> All measure to solve this problem will reduce pvp amount IMO. </blockquote><p> Not entirely true.</p><p>If sony had a sponsored system in-game where players could help others adjust to pvp better, that would improve the chances of new players, and not reduce but increase pvp.</p><p>I'm talking about sony-sponsored PvP guides.  Not a salary, just something nice to encourage folks to want to join up to be a guide and help out.</p>

holypaladin28
03-30-2007, 11:13 AM
<p>okay EQ2 was my first online game ever and i rolled on a PVP server first choice i didnt know i just ook first on list.  then i rolled a PALLY (hehe) by the time i got to lcl 25 i had 300 deaths and 50 kills.  now im lvl 70 and have 3400kills 620 deaths</p><p>THINK ON THAT</p>

Louden1
03-30-2007, 11:16 AM
<p>I disagree with the OP. I have been playing and enjoying the pvp since level 10, I am 11 now.</p><p>If you have that big of a problem with lockers, level past them, or lock yourself and take up a tradeskill to make some money.</p>

Randell44
04-01-2007, 06:26 AM
" The problem most face on a PvP server is that they hunt/level in the same places they did on a PvE server. Or, if they're new to the game, they're following the Guides/FAQs which were written based on PvE rulesets." I think the problem  is that PVP is enabled everywhere but instances when it should instead be seperated into 3 types of zones.  PVE, PVP, and mixed.  PVE would allow no enemy players in it (exp would be the normal 100%), PVP would be a special zone made for PVP with perhaps special PVP objectives (exp would be 100%), Mixed would be a PVE zone that allowed enemy players in it (exp would be 150% or 200%). With this done they could also reduce the timers for killing the same person to like 5-10 minutes without really harming anything. " Yes, they are right.  There are an inordinate number of T2 level locked MC/fabled twinks.  This is what bored people with little to no PvP skill do to amuse themselves.  Get over it.  Some of them (a smaller number) lock in T3 for the same reason.  Some of them (a much much smaller number) do it in T4 or T5, and those poor souls spend <i>even more $$$ and time</i> throwing random pieces of fabled at their locked toons to go prey on the hapless treasured and mastercrafted wanderers.  What's the answer?" Hehe, the PVP advantage of the "uber" gear should be half what it is now to allow people to fight back.  Gear should be an advantage but never an IWIN when your talking about average>>good>>great.  Now a player in POOR gear should get powned aye. " 1.  Ignore it.  Level through it in a few days.  You came to this server to start a new character, to get into a new gaming experience?  You didn't expect to be at the top of the totem pole your second day, did you?  Spend a tiny bit of time levelling past these gankers and forget about it.  There are plenty of instances if you don't like to be bothered while you do it." In my experience every time I hit a new tier, I found a new tier of gankers....many times even at secluded lvling spots.  Assuming I survive the trip TO the leveling spots. "remove lvl-locking! if someone REALY MUST play with his lowlvlefriends, he can /mentor. (nit exact the same, but still working in instances) no need for lvl-locking then in building up gank-squads. send them to lvl 70 when well organized guilds are hanging around and farming zones for loot and i want to see screenshots of their faces" I would rather keep lvl locking and address insane gear advanatges cap AA by lvl (yet the store any extra exp for AA learned), and seperate the  zones into PVE/PVP/Mixed.  It would make for more focused PVP and more strait up actual PVP vs the gnaking that rules now. <p>"I left pvp for this reason...and I even had a level 70 on the server.</p><p>It's just so pointless...especially with level locking. Nothing but camping and ganking people."</p> Same reason I left it.  It's not about real and actual PVP.  For that I reccomend Dark Age of Camelot even with all it's faults.  Burnt out after 4-5 years or i would still be there.

Randell44
04-01-2007, 06:46 AM
"A tank, if played right, should still kill a scout even with that MC gear disadvantage." LOL try playing a guardian.  I can't count the number of fights I might have won except that they run like heck at the first sign of loss and I have no way to stop them.  Then they merely return and wait until I'm weak or low hp or something to engage.  So yeah I can understand a tank drawing with a scout, but not really beating a scout unless the scout misplays. YES i understand how much better I am in groups, but I also understand the advantages some classes have over others as well as the insane equipment advantages they have.  Also ya know what?  I don't wanna group all the time and I don't think you should have to group to kill someone 1 on 1 with a tank. I also want to add that I equipped myself pretty well in mastercrafted and adept III, with the occasional master.  I also had totems and good food/drink.  Increased my survivability over poor equiment and no extras but still ultimately makes little differance vs that twinked scout unless he is a complete noob.

Sinistria
04-01-2007, 07:05 AM
i dont think remove level-locking will decrease pvp. people will level up and everybody will meet at max level again. and then you must pvp for zones you want to farm gear. (if there arent to much instances) if getting gear isnt that easy (sitting in crafting instance) you must go to out to high-lvl mobs. there you will have pvp. more then enough. xcept you make lvl 20 twinks over and over again. wich would make more works since you have to recraft over and over again. so removing lvl-locking will add a "reason" for pvp, what many people are asking for so much, and reduce grey-zerg-feast and give pvp for the best stuff in game. the t7 stuff. lvl-locking just makes no sense (yeah yeah, pvp-gear) get other gear then. if you level on and on you dont need it anyway since you outlevel it. for people who want to stay in contact with their friends (what, i think, lvl locking was supposed to be for) you stll have menthor. ok, its dangerous with menthor but its possible. i never saw something like lvelocking and i dont think it is need in a game wich system it is to level up and get btter gear to fight better mobs. those are just two circles that turn around against each other. i understand, its some kind of factor in a game that adds a lot of fun, and its idea is interesting, but it showed to much its not good for a pvp server. at least remove it from pvp. so if people kill on and on, they WILL level up. if someone wants to do ALL quests and see ALL zones complete (wich i miss also because leveling is to fast) he has still the opportunity. but if just want to zerg other player, they will level up and have to face other foes.