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View Full Version : Time to fix the grouping during fight exploit. Please?


Harbringer Doom
03-20-2007, 05:16 PM
Look, I couldn't care less about dying to someone who can legitimately attack me.  Such is the life of a low-level healer, and a pvper in general.  But this BS about reds jumping into groups in the Commonlands DURING a fight with a group that legitimately cons attackable is just plain crap. I don't care what the level restrictions are.  Four levels, ten levels, unlimited, WHATEVER.  So long as there is not some stupid exploitable mechanic that allows people outside the level restriction to join a group in the middle of a fight and circumvent the restrictions. Should I just assume that you are incapable of properly coding the level restriction system, and that, basically, exploiting makes it FFA?  Is that your goal?  I mean, is this an exploit?  Or not?  Should I learn this technique ad start trailing along some appropriately leveled toons so I can combat the "during fight invite" technique? Is lower than T7 pvp intended to be a game of "who can sneakily invite the highest level toon before the fight is concluded"?   Should I stash a progressively higher cadre of toons nearby to sequentially join in the fray?   I guess SOE wants me to make it into a game of Stratego out there.  I'll have my "1" hiding in the wings waiting for your "2" to join your group during battle.  Then I'll invite my "1" and kill your "2".  If your "Spy" can make it here in time, he can kill my "1". [Removed for Content], was that a bomb? Seriously, when I am in my usual, even-level, hunting trio, my scout should be able to discount all reds she sees on track in CL.  Eliminating anything that cons red from the equation (aside from the possibility of outside healing) lets us calculate what we're up against.  We don't shy away from fighting full groups if we think we even have the smallest chance of taking a couple with us, or perhaps winning.  But should we really have to wonder whether every fight we enter into has pocket reds ready to turn the corner, join the group and wipe us out, without even the illusion of a fight? If you really want it to be FFA, or unrestricted, FINE, make it unrestricted. I don't know what it is that people are doing to join a group in the middle of a fight, and I don't want to know.  I just know that its happening.  I see it every night I pvp on my lowbie.   (Maybe some jackhole who likes to use this tactic would like to chime in on how this is fun for you.) I understand that there will always be frightened little wussy fraidy cats that will only fight in such a cowardly manner... deriving their jollies off of circumventing the rules in order to kill greys.  SOE should understand that too.  Do something about the exploiting.  Now. By the by, is there some SOE by-law that states at least one game mechanic has to be infuriatingly farked at any given time?  Seems like it. Fix it. The End.

Damit
03-21-2007, 01:41 PM
I honestly have not seen this.  I play a frep, and maybe just got lucky not to.  I mean CL is ALWAYS full of Qs lol.  Maybe go XP in Ant?  Its always safer for my frep there....imo.  I would assume this is done, be sending an invite, and having the person wait to accept it till comabt starts.  That might be a way to bypass the lock on invites and such while in battle.<img src="/smilies/0a4d7238daa496a758252d0a2b1a1384.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Ameniel
03-21-2007, 01:55 PM
<p>I've never know it to be possible to invite during a fight...you would always have to wait till it's done. Really does sound like somethign not working as intended and hence an exploit. </p><p>Speaking of things not working as intended...It has always been the case where if I was fighting or if my group was fighting anyone and they engaged, & then started losing and zoned to a docks area they got immediate immunity, regardless of the fact that they were engaged in combat. However, yesterday my group zoned to TS docks from zek after having been locked in combat(healer had healed, putting her & our grp in combat) and we were attackable on the other side. So it seems the mechanics work one way sometimes, and another way other times. </p><p>Seriously....what is it with these whacked-out pvp mechanics? Is there so little attention being paid to this type of thing? Did I just win the stupidest question of the year award?...</p>

Erronn
03-21-2007, 02:45 PM
<p>Seems that SOE always has some broken mechanic that ruins things...maybe it's the law of software - it can never be perfect. I too wish they could fix these exploits...</p>

Badaxe Ba
03-21-2007, 03:05 PM
There is no way to invite during pvp battle, you get a message saying you can't invite or join a group during pvp.  Some other method is being used, more than likely it is your pocket red waiting just outside a zoneline, IMO.

Roald
03-21-2007, 03:45 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>There is no way to invite during pvp battle, you get a message saying you can't invite or join a group during pvp.  Some other method is being used, more than likely it is your pocket red waiting just outside a zoneline, IMO.</blockquote><p> The person is invited before the fight starts, and leaves the invite box up, then accepts when the fight is taking place</p><p>I have experienced quite a few Freeps doing this to me and this definately needs to be fixed. </p>

Harbringer Doom
03-21-2007, 06:23 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>There is no way to invite during pvp battle, you get a message saying you can't invite or join a group during pvp.  Some other method is being used, more than likely it is your pocket red waiting just outside a zoneline, IMO.</blockquote> Respectfully, there is a way.  These are not people waiting outside a zoneline, I've seen this happen in the middle of no where.  Personally, I avoid zoneline pvp as much as I can. I'm beginning to hear some grumblings in certain channels about how this is happening, but I'm not even going to waste my time confirming it. Get to work SOE and shut this exploit down. Sincerely,

tass
03-21-2007, 06:57 PM
make pvp ffa then everyone gets [Removed for Content]. Horray for my ideas!!! Seriosly theres no way ur never going to ever have an exploit free syetm with the way the pvp system and even the combat system is set up in this game.

Spyderbite
03-21-2007, 07:05 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>There is no way to invite during pvp battle, you get a message saying you can't invite or join a group during pvp.</blockquote>I'd agree with you... but then we'd both be wrong. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Spyderbite
03-21-2007, 07:06 PM
<cite>tass wrote:</cite><blockquote>make pvp ffa then everyone gets [I cannot control my vocabulary]. Horray for my ideas!!! Seriosly theres no way ur never going to ever have an exploit free syetm with the way the pvp system and even the combat system is set up in this game. </blockquote> FFA is suicide for any PvP system. There are no games that are not starving for subscribers that catered to the FFA system. Want FFA? Go play a FPS...

Harbringer Doom
03-21-2007, 08:54 PM
Hey, if you want to make it FFA, fine, make it FFA. At least then I know what I'm up against and its FF "ALL", not just the cheating cowards.

Gaeus
03-22-2007, 11:47 AM
    Hi Tesar, this is Spider.  I have addressed this on Venekor forums and PVP forums myself.  One group of losers on Q side do it constantly, and cannot fight a fair fight no matter what.  Funny thing is, they all have high pvp titles which, is ironic because they only win by way of exploits such as this group invite ploy.  They will have their higher lvl guildies send an invite to them.  They will keep the invite option on their screen.  Then, after you attack them, they accept the invite.  That then enables the whole group of reds to attack you as you have engaged that new encounter full of red cons.          The pathetic thing about these cheating losers is they actually cheer eachother and laugh after they do it.  I really can't fathom how some people actually get a woody from using exploits to win a pvp encounter, but, obviously many do.  They probably don't stop at exploiting ingame mechanics either I am sure these very types use every hack and cheat they can just to stroke themselves.  it makes them feel good.  The great thing is, these losers have such a reputation for their antics now, when they enter CL zone literally the entire zone flocks to their location.  Last time I seen them, they were running all over the zone with no chance to organize they got killed till they camped or called out.

CresentBlade
03-22-2007, 11:49 AM
Well since all the posers cant out of range heal, they had to come up with some other way to cheese for easy kills.

Kurindor_Mythecnea
03-22-2007, 12:24 PM
You're mistaken. Qeynosians out of the PvP range, and also not in the opposer's group (obviously, else I not be mentioning this), have been able to heal their allies on multiple occasions.

Harbringer Doom
03-22-2007, 02:41 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>    Hi Tesar, this is Spider.  I have addressed this on Venekor forums and PVP forums myself.  One group of losers on Q side do it constantly, and cannot fight a fair fight no matter what.  Funny thing is, they all have high pvp titles which, is ironic because they only win by way of exploits such as this group invite ploy.  They will have their higher lvl guildies send an invite to them.  They will keep the invite option on their screen.  Then, after you attack them, they accept the invite.  That then enables the whole group of reds to attack you as you have engaged that new encounter full of red cons.          The pathetic thing about these cheating losers is they actually cheer eachother and laugh after they do it.  I really can't fathom how some people actually get a woody from using exploits to win a pvp encounter, but, obviously many do.  They probably don't stop at exploiting ingame mechanics either I am sure these very types use every hack and cheat they can just to stroke themselves.  it makes them feel good.  The great thing is, these losers have such a reputation for their antics now, when they enter CL zone literally the entire zone flocks to their location.  Last time I seen them, they were running all over the zone with no chance to organize they got killed till they camped or called out. </blockquote> Hey Spider, Yeah, I have no doubt it happens on both sides.  I wish someone at SOE would acknowledge the problem and tell us their taking a look at solutions. Next up?  Posting names of the group exploit losers until I'm banned.

Aeralik
03-22-2007, 05:57 PM
I've seen the complaints about this and I've tested it locally.  From my local testing it seems to be working just fine.  When you click accept if you are hated by anyone it will not add you to the group. The same thing applies if you hate a player.  If anyone in the group you are about to join is fighting it will also cancel out.  If there is some strange combination I am not seeing then you can pm me with details.

Norrsken
03-22-2007, 06:25 PM
<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>I've seen the complaints about this and I've tested it locally.  From my local testing it seems to be working just fine.  When you click accept if you are hated by anyone it will not add you to the group. The same thing applies if you hate a player.  If anyone in the group you are about to join is fighting it will also cancel out.  If there is some strange combination I am not seeing then you can pm me with details. </blockquote>Have you tried it with raid invites as well?

knorah
03-23-2007, 07:52 AM
<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>I've seen the complaints about this and I've tested it locally.  From my local testing it seems to be working just fine.  When you click accept if you are hated by anyone it will not add you to the group. The same thing applies if you hate a player.  If anyone in the group you are about to join is fighting it will also cancel out.  If there is some strange combination I am not seeing then you can pm me with details. </blockquote>With all due respect Aeralik, have you tried it on a PvP server? You mentioned local server...what does that mean? your personal test server that you work off of/on? This exploit happens A LOT solely on pvp servers and it bothers me when I read your quote to translate into "working as intended." This exploit is ruining the game for a lot of pvp players who love the game. Please look deeper. Thank you.

CresentBlade
03-23-2007, 09:35 AM
<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>I've seen the complaints about this and I've tested it locally.  From my local testing it seems to be working just fine.  When you click accept if you are hated by anyone it will not add you to the group. The same thing applies if you hate a player.  If anyone in the group you are about to join is fighting it will also cancel out.  If there is some strange combination I am not seeing then you can pm me with details. </blockquote>OMG and this why the game is borked. Low level has high level player send invite, low level player waits for players in his range to attack. The low level joins group once a person in his/her range attacks, high level beats the [Removed for Content] out of opposing team lower levels. Rinse repeat rinse repeat....... Is this more clear? Pretty cut and dry.

Norrsken
03-23-2007, 09:38 AM
<cite>Gildorath wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>I've seen the complaints about this and I've tested it locally.  From my local testing it seems to be working just fine.  When you click accept if you are hated by anyone it will not add you to the group. The same thing applies if you hate a player.  If anyone in the group you are about to join is fighting it will also cancel out.  If there is some strange combination I am not seeing then you can pm me with details. </blockquote>OMG and this why the game is borked. Low level has high level player send invite, low level player waits for players in his range to attack. The low level joins group once a person in his/her range attacks, high level beats the [I cannot control my vocabulary] out of opposing team lower levels. Rinse repeat rinse repeat....... Is this more clear? Pretty cut and dry.</blockquote>Did you try it and it worked? Since I know for sure that you could not do it that way a few weeks ago. At least not with group invites.

CresentBlade
03-23-2007, 09:43 AM
Working as intended

Norrsken
03-23-2007, 09:45 AM
<cite>Gildorath wrote:</cite><blockquote>Working as intended</blockquote>Great reply. Now, did yhe spoit work when you tried it, or are you just regurgitating other peoples words?

CresentBlade
03-23-2007, 09:48 AM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><cite>Gildorath wrote:</cite><blockquote>Working as intended</blockquote>Great reply. Now, did yhe spoit work when you tried it, or are you just regurgitating other peoples words? </blockquote>Done it, really easy to try just do as I stated. This will be addressed once they are done with the test server and server moves ([Removed for Content]) and once they get done banning all the people that report or complain about the hacks/cheaters and bot groups.<img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Harbringer Doom
03-23-2007, 10:00 AM
<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>I've seen the complaints about this and I've tested it locally.  From my local testing it seems to be working just fine.  When you click accept if you are hated by anyone it will not add you to the group. The same thing applies if you hate a player.  If anyone in the group you are about to join is fighting it will also cancel out.  If there is some strange combination I am not seeing then you can pm me with details. </blockquote> You know, after seeing "all the complaints", I would hope that the investigation about a purported exploit that was being abused might go a little bit deeper. Guess not. I mean, because your "local testing" didn't turn up any results, does that mean everyone who is complaining about this broken mechanism is just wrong?  Do you think we're accidentally attacking people grouped with reds, or that we're all fighting near zonelines and the reds are zoning in.  You must, because your response implies that the "investigation" is closed unless someone PMs you specifics. So, now, if we want a fix, we're required to get some players together and try to duplicate the exploit.  Does that sound about right? Thanks for your 2 minutes of looking into this, and your concise response. Why do I even bother...

Norrsken
03-23-2007, 10:04 AM
<cite>Gildorath wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><cite>Gildorath wrote:</cite><blockquote>Working as intended</blockquote>Great reply. Now, did yhe spoit work when you tried it, or are you just regurgitating other peoples words? </blockquote>Done it, really easy to try just do as I stated. This will be addressed once they are done with the test server and server moves ([Removed for Content]) and once they get done banning all the people that report or complain about the hacks/cheaters and bot groups.<img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote>Then its a fresh bug, since you couldnt do it a few weeks back. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Ah well.

Geoff
03-23-2007, 12:54 PM
easy fix...stop the level locking and hit 70?

Badaxe Ba
03-23-2007, 12:54 PM
<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>I've seen the complaints about this and I've tested it locally.  From my local testing it seems to be working just fine.  When you click accept if you are hated by anyone it will not add you to the group. The same thing applies if you hate a player.  If anyone in the group you are about to join is fighting it will also cancel out.  If there is some strange combination I am not seeing then you can pm me with details. </blockquote> Thank you for responding, and checking, this complaint.  Also, thank you for remaining open minded, and allowing those who are reporting on this alleged complaint to contribute any details that have somehow remain undiscovered.  Keep up the good work.

Rattfa
03-23-2007, 01:15 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>I've seen the complaints about this and I've tested it locally.  From my local testing it seems to be working just fine.  When you click accept if you are hated by anyone it will not add you to the group. The same thing applies if you hate a player.  If anyone in the group you are about to join is fighting it will also cancel out.  If there is some strange combination I am not seeing then you can pm me with details. </blockquote> Thank you for responding, and checking, this complaint.  Also, thank you for remaining open minded, and allowing those who are reporting on this alleged complaint to contribute any details that have somehow remain undiscovered.  Keep up the good work.</blockquote> Seconded.

Killque
03-23-2007, 01:27 PM
<p>I use this exploit myself when the occasion calls. This still works, and needs to be removed. Do you suggest petitioning in game and showing the GM ?</p>

Ameniel
03-23-2007, 01:29 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>easy fix...stop the level locking and hit 70?</blockquote> Why yes, everybody can just grind to 70 without pvping and not have any of the faction they need when they hit 70! There will be no pvp outside t7!! Brilliant!!!

Karellen
03-23-2007, 01:36 PM
<p>As long as someone has not attacked back is free to join any group he likes.</p><p>It is inteded to give a lesson to ganking squads (see groups).</p>

Harbringer Doom
03-23-2007, 01:39 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>easy fix...stop the level locking and hit 70?</blockquote> In your infinite wisdom  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  please explain to me how leveling at an unlocked rate solves the combat grouping exploit. And ... GO! Should we all avoid any PvP until we're 70?  While one may experience MORE of the combat group exploit if one is level locked, you cannot AVOID the exploit just because you're not level locked. Further, the fools exploiting shouldn't get a free pass to use an exploit against everyone that comes in their range whilst unlocked leveling, even if they are just passing through. A fix?  I think not, good sir.

Bozidar
03-23-2007, 01:40 PM
<cite>Karellen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>As long as someone has not attacked back is free to join any group he likes.</p><p>It is inteded to give a lesson to ganking squads (see groups).</p></blockquote><p> LOL< it's not surprising to see you in support of this obvious exploit.  Shouldn't you be running from someone about now? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Giddyup!!</p><p><span style="font-size: xx-small"><span style="color: #000000">ps.. it's a group game</span></span></p>

Harbringer Doom
03-23-2007, 01:41 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>I've seen the complaints about this and I've tested it locally.  From my local testing it seems to be working just fine.  When you click accept if you are hated by anyone it will not add you to the group. The same thing applies if you hate a player.  If anyone in the group you are about to join is fighting it will also cancel out.  If there is some strange combination I am not seeing then you can pm me with details. </blockquote> Thank you for responding, and checking, this complaint.  Also, thank you for remaining open minded, and allowing those who are reporting on this alleged complaint to contribute any details that have somehow remain undiscovered.  Keep up the good work.</blockquote>Harry is infinitely more patient and diplomatic than I could ever be... Then again, he doesn't seem to believe such an exploit exists...  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Bozidar
03-23-2007, 01:49 PM
fyi -- this can screw you at level 70 as well.  You pick a fight with a guy, and he runs around a little, then gets an invite to a group nearby.  he accepts, then turns around to face you.  Now, you can kill him.. but if his new found group gets there in time you're not going to be able to just finish him off and fly away.. you're locked down, and when the zoning situation is finally put it, you won't even be able to click a zone exit..

Harbringer Doom
03-23-2007, 01:52 PM
<cite>Karellen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>As long as someone has not attacked back is free to join any group he likes.</p><p>It is inteded to give a lesson to ganking squads (see groups).</p></blockquote> A) That's not what the SOE representative above stated.  He said that whether you are hated, or hate someone, you cannot join a group.  B) Clearly, its not intended.  Lets not get all philosophical.

Karellen
03-23-2007, 01:52 PM
<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Karellen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>As long as someone has not attacked back is free to join any group he likes.</p><p>It is inteded to give a lesson to ganking squads (see groups).</p></blockquote><p> LOL< it's not surprising to see you in support of this obvious exploit.  Shouldn't you be running from someone about now? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Giddyup!!</p><p><span style="font-size: xx-small"><span style="color: #000000">ps.. it's a group game</span></span></p></blockquote><p>Minimal knowledge of the game would tell you that joining a group when you havent attack someone is not an exploit. Your ignorance of course does not surprise me. </p><p>You have not been informed right, it is not a group game. It can be anything you like.</p><p>Generaly groups in PvP are for those who are not capable otherwise.</p><p>Running from you? why? you have a 3x raid set up?</p><p>Oh and you can read the devs post? It will enlighten you. </p>

Karellen
03-23-2007, 01:57 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><cite>Karellen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>As long as someone has not attacked back is free to join any group he likes.</p><p>It is inteded to give a lesson to ganking squads (see groups).</p></blockquote> A) That's not what the SOE representative above stated.  He said that whether you are hated, or hate someone, you cannot join a group.  B) Clearly, its not intended.  Lets not get all philosophical. </blockquote><p> It is as the SOE representative stated:</p><p>Aeralik:</p><p>"When you click accept if you are hated by anyone it will not add you to the group. "</p><p>I am not philosophical, i just read.</p>

Harbringer Doom
03-23-2007, 02:02 PM
<cite>Karellen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Bozidar wrote: <p>Minimal knowledge of the game would tell you that joining a group when you havent attack someone is not an exploit. </p>[snip] <p>Oh and you can read the devs post? It will enlighten you. </p></blockquote> The devs post in this thread? It says that whether you attack, or are attacked, you should not be able to thereafter join a group. Let me ask you this:  Do you use this technique?  If so, and you're not ashamed, lets hear about how you do it. Thanks.

Bozidar
03-23-2007, 02:04 PM
Karellen wrote: <blockquote><p>Minimal knowledge of the game would tell you that joining a group when you havent attack someone is not an exploit. Your ignorance of course does not surprise me. </p><p>You have not been informed right, it is not a group game. It can be anything you like.</p><p>Generaly groups in PvP are for those who are not capable otherwise.</p><p>Running from you? why? you have a 3x raid set up?</p><p>Oh and you can read the devs post? It will enlighten you. </p></blockquote><p> Minimal knowledge of the game would tell me that your ignorance is only surpassed by your ability to run away.</p><p>I don't need to be informed, i learn, i see most classes built for group play.  You can solo if you choose, as i do sometimes.  But it remains fundamentally a group game.  Ask a shaman, they'll tell you.</p><p>Generally groups in PvP are for those who think, plan, and waaaay more often than not - win.  For some it's what they do when a group attacks them, then they go back at that group with friends in tow and because they have no skill at pvp grouping they die again... hope i'm not causing flashbacks here.</p><p>Don't need a raid X3 for you, just need a ferrarri to keep up as you flee, flee, flee the battlefield.. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  You should get a buddy bard to run with you, so he can sing you that song as you both run away even faster.. LOL</p><p>(/personal taunting off)</p><p>I read the devs post.  It seems like he's tested this in dev, and as a developer myself i know that many times things happen in prod that can't be recreated in dev -- and when that happens you log on to prod and give it a shot.  Given the level of professionalism at SoE, i imagine this is happening right now.  I hope that some of the folks who know how to re-create it will be contacted so that they can enlighten the dev.  Personally, never done it, but seen it happen.</p>

Harbringer Doom
03-23-2007, 02:06 PM
<cite>Karellen wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><cite>Karellen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>As long as someone has not attacked back is free to join any group he likes.</p><p>It is inteded to give a lesson to ganking squads (see groups).</p></blockquote> A) That's not what the SOE representative above stated.  He said that whether you are hated, or hate someone, you cannot join a group.  B) Clearly, its not intended.  Lets not get all philosophical. </blockquote><p> It is as the SOE representative stated:</p><p>Aeralik:</p><p>"When you click accept if you are hated by anyone it will not add you to the group. "</p><p>I am not philosophical, i just read.</p></blockquote> I assure you, I can be more snarky if you want.  Just let me know. Actually, what he says is:  "When you click accept if you are hated by anyone it will not add you to the group. The same thing applies if you hate a player." Explain to me, in my ignorance and illiteracy how one can not hate or be hated after being attacked or attacking.   Seriously, I want to know how this tactic is utilized. When I am attacked, are my other group members allowed to invite people?  Do they not have hate yet?  Is that how it works? Look, I know there is a work around, enlighten me would you?  There is no reason not to talk about the mechanics if you think it is legitimate.

Karellen
03-23-2007, 02:18 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><cite>Karellen wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><cite>Karellen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>As long as someone has not attacked back is free to join any group he likes.</p><p>It is inteded to give a lesson to ganking squads (see groups).</p></blockquote> A) That's not what the SOE representative above stated.  He said that whether you are hated, or hate someone, you cannot join a group.  B) Clearly, its not intended.  Lets not get all philosophical. </blockquote><p> It is as the SOE representative stated:</p><p>Aeralik:</p><p>"When you click accept if you are hated by anyone it will not add you to the group. "</p><p>I am not philosophical, i just read.</p></blockquote> I assure you, I can be more snarky if you want.  Just let me know. Actually, what he says is:  "When you click accept if you are hated by anyone it will not add you to the group. The same thing applies if you hate a player." Explain to me, in my ignorance and illiteracy how one can not hate or be hated after being attacked or attacking.   Seriously, I want to know how this tactic is utilized. When I am attacked, are my other group members allowed to invite people?  Do they not have hate yet?  Is that how it works? Look, I know there is a work around, enlighten me would you?  There is no reason not to talk about the mechanics if you think it is legitimate. </blockquote><p>If someone has not attacked back he is able to accept a group invite. I do think that this is legitimate. Indeed aeraliks post says different. I dont know how i missed it, sorry. The invite has not to be sent before hand. Thats my observation and yes i do sent invite when i see someone in danger by gank squad and i find it as fine as fine it is 5 on 1. </p>

Harbringer Doom
03-23-2007, 02:20 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>easy fix...stop the level locking and hit 70?</blockquote> Also, by the by, exiles are probably in the best position to investigate this phenomenon.  You can mess around with attacking/inviting/raiding in an instance, with the ability to talk to one another, and the understanding not to kill each other. Just thought I'd mention it.

Harbringer Doom
03-23-2007, 02:26 PM
<cite>Karellen wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <p>If someone has not attacked back he is able to accept a group invite. I do think that this is legitimate. Indeed aeraliks post says different. I dont know how i missed it, sorry. The invite has not to be sent before hand. Thats my observation and yes i do sent invite when i see someone in danger by gank squad and i find it as fine as fine it is 5 on 1. </p></blockquote> I'm not going to debate the school of thought that the technique can be used to combat "gank squads" (if such a thing exists), because I don't think that use justifies the griefing that can result from other applications of the technique. My opinion is that such a technique is ripe for abuse by reds joining groups not to even the odds, but merely to slaughter the cattle, thus becoming the gankers, not in any way combatting them. There are ridiculously restrictive zone pvp level caps for a reason.  The ability to enter a group during battle, no matter your level, obviates those level caps.

Bozidar
03-23-2007, 02:32 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><b></b> My opinion is that such a technique is ripe for abuse by reds joining groups not to even the odds, but merely to slaughter the cattle, thus becoming the gankers, not in any way combatting them. </blockquote> This is exactly right.  If you want to combat gank squads.. roll out a group of your own.  Exploiting to bring in a higher (and usually MUCH) higher toon isn't the answer.

Harbringer Doom
03-23-2007, 02:39 PM
<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote> My opinion is that such a technique is ripe for abuse by reds joining groups not to even the odds, but merely to slaughter the cattle, thus becoming the gankers, not in any way combatting them. </blockquote> This is exactly right.  If you want to combat gank squads.. roll out a group of your own.  Exploiting to bring in a higher (and usually MUCH) higher toon isn't the answer.</blockquote> Yeah, I don't believe in gankers anyway.  This is PvP.   If you're solo, expect to be hunted down and rolled by a group.  If you're in a group, expect to be hunted down and rolled by a yellow/orange group. Last night, my group of four/five had a group of 2 oranges and 4 yellows following them from revive point to revive point to kill us over and over and over again.  I didn't think they were "ganking", I just think they're pvp starved and rolling in a group protecting their homeland.  What can you do? Its the laughing and taunting when they, after a two minute fight, killed a group of greens and greys that makes them pathetic.  <img src="/smilies/47941865eb7bbc2a777305b46cc059a2.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Bozidar
03-23-2007, 03:19 PM
<p>A well tuned squad of pvpers IS a gank squad.  You'll kill just about anything with the exception of well tuned squad of pvpers of higher level than you. </p><p>I'm not talking about GRIEFERS.  That's a totally different thing, and I don't support it.  </p>

Harbringer Doom
03-23-2007, 03:25 PM
<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>A well tuned squad of pvpers IS a gank squad.  You'll kill just about anything with the exception of well tuned squad of pvpers of higher level than you. </p><p>I'm not talking about GRIEFERS.  That's a totally different thing, and I don't support it.  </p></blockquote> I guess I just disagree with the term "gank squad."  Especially with the level restrictions employed in this game. I just see it as a well tuned group of pvpers.  They're not ganking anyone by killing them, they're just pvping. Semantics. /shrug

Bozidar
03-23-2007, 03:32 PM
<p>will send you a pm to take this non-related discussion elsewhere <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Harbringer Doom
03-23-2007, 03:48 PM
<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>will send you a pm to take this non-related discussion elsewhere <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p></blockquote> Hey!  I'll derail my thread whenever I dern well please!! Just kidding. Fix grouping exploit.  Thanks.

Roald
03-24-2007, 12:12 PM
<p>-1000 respect points killque <img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p> And in Karellen's defence she definately does not run all the time, anyone who says that is a blatant lier. I remember me and her attackin Kongol's full grp when they were all blue con's. Also u wouldnt get 4.5k kills b4 level 50 if you just ran al the time.</p>

Geoff
03-24-2007, 05:58 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>easy fix...stop the level locking and hit 70?</blockquote> In your infinite wisdom  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  please explain to me how leveling at an unlocked rate solves the combat grouping exploit. And ... GO! Should we all avoid any PvP until we're 70?  While one may experience MORE of the combat group exploit if one is level locked, you cannot AVOID the exploit just because you're not level locked. Further, the fools exploiting shouldn't get a free pass to use an exploit against everyone that comes in their range whilst unlocked leveling, even if they are just passing through. A fix?  I think not, good sir. </blockquote><p>ok in my infinite wisdom here ya go....say a high level is grouped with a lower level, and they're going to mentor down when they get to their location.  The low level zones and higher level is on his way.  Someone attacks the lower level and then the higher level zones in.  Now this is the same effect of the exploit being descibed.  But would you say this is an exploit or just bad luck in this instance?  The majority of people complaining baout this issue are the ones level locked in T2, T3.  Which I consider just as much an "exploit" (I don't really consider either, but that's besides the point).  I mean how fair is it that someone stays at level 22 for months, gears up, completely masters up, and then mows down innocent T2 adventurers just passing along on the level?  The answer is it's not fair, but it's acceptable.  Same with this issue at hand, imo.  So I'm sorry, very little sympathy for the level lockers.  Now if a dev is saying it's not working as intended, then so be it.  Doesn't affect me regardless.  </p><p>As far as how leveling to max levels solves this problem...then it doesn't matter who groups with who, you can be attacked by anyone at 70.  Some people just have to toughen up and remember that some of us leveld from 45-70 when DoF was unlimited.  But it was still doable. </p>

Harbringer Doom
03-24-2007, 06:50 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <p>ok in my infinite wisdom here ya go....say a high level is grouped with a lower level, and they're going to mentor down when they get to their location.  The low level zones and higher level is on his way.  Someone attacks the lower level and then the higher level zones in.  Now this is the same effect of the exploit being descibed.  But would you say this is an exploit or just bad luck in this instance?  The majority of people complaining baout this issue are the ones level locked in T2, T3.  Which I consider just as much an "exploit" (I don't really consider either, but that's besides the point).  I mean how fair is it that someone stays at level 22 for months, gears up, completely masters up, and then mows down innocent T2 adventurers just passing along on the level?  The answer is it's not fair, but it's acceptable.  Same with this issue at hand, imo.  So I'm sorry, very little sympathy for the level lockers.  Now if a dev is saying it's not working as intended, then so be it.  Doesn't affect me regardless.  </p><p>As far as how leveling to max levels solves this problem...then it doesn't matter who groups with who, you can be attacked by anyone at 70.  Some people just have to toughen up and remember that some of us leveld from 45-70 when DoF was unlimited.  But it was still doable. </p></blockquote> "[M]ows down innocent T2 adventurers just passing along the level..."   This is precisely what someone who is using this grouping exploit can do, irregardless of who is level locked.   Some poor schlub along the way to 70 can get mowed down repeatedly by reds because of this exploit. So, my point was, leveling to 70 "normally" still subjects you to adverse effects from this exploit along the way, and as stated above, can even affect you adversely at 70.  Just because you don't care, or it doesn't effect you, doesn't mean it shouldn't be fixed. And, by the way, I'm one of those people who leveled to 70 when DoF was unlimited.   This isn't about what the restrictions are, or how they are set at the current time, its about the fact that the restrictions should apply as intended, rather than FFA if you know how to cheat. Lastly, while we're on the subject of level-locked twinks, which this thread actually has very little to do with, let me ask you this:  What's the difference between a level locked twinked T2 toon and a level 70 fully mastered, fabled, pvp geared "twink" toon?

Spyderbite
03-25-2007, 08:31 AM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>Lastly, while we're on the subject of level-locked twinks, which this thread actually has very little to do with, let me ask you this:  <b>What's the difference between a level locked twinked T2 toon and a level 70 fully mastered, fabled, pvp geared "twink" toon?</b> </blockquote>About 50 plat... ^^ Back on topic though.. while aggravating to say the least. I hope that the issue is handled very carefully from a development perspective rather than a hot fix tossed blindly in to the game. While I'd love to see all /invite gumps disappear when one enters combat; I'd hate for it to inadvertently effect other gumps in game such as inventory, harvesting progress, etc. These two examples alone would effect legitimate strategies when hunting another player. Everyone who's demanded an immediate fix (not just to this issue, but any issue for that matter) needs to take in to consideration what other aspects of the game such a fix would impact. And, with that in mind, understand that strategically programming said fix, is not "just a couple lines of code". <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Radigazt
03-25-2007, 09:14 AM
<p>A bunch of Q's used this exploit on my group the other day in the Thundering Steppes.  We chased this yellow fae all over creation until he got to the TS docks.  He then called in a bunch of his buddies who stayed ungrouped and out of zone.  Eventually we got tired of waiting for him and we left.  He instantly becomes heroic with a group of oranges and yellows but he doesn't follow us.  We head over by the tower near Ant, then he and his group fly in.  I tell everyone NOT to hit him, because I just know he's gonna do this exploit, such the Q style.  The one non-guildie (who later confesses to not have very good English) decides to auto-attack him when we're on the griff tower ready to fly.  Auto-attack ... OK whatever.  Eventually he drags us all in and mid-fight, WHAM he becomes an x2.  All of a sudden it's an extra group of mostly oranges and some yellows--as far as I could tell almost all Champions--they swept in and laid everything on us.  I died losing a ton of fame (I'm a Dreadnaught died to about 8 champions all orange or yellow) only because of this ridiculous exploit.  I can make 30 kills for infamy and die once like that and lose more infamy than all 30 kills combined ... sickening.  </p><p>For the record, it was on Nagafen, and the exploiters included Hartsia, Toadya, Hanes, Llyfe (fae fury I think that's how he spells it), and a bunch of others.  Those guys all got infamy off of me I'm 100% certain because they were still gloating over my corpse after I died, and I saw they were all Champions, heh.  Raid-invites mid-fight are obvious exploits.  These guys knew it and intentionally exploited ... and it got them a lot of infamy.  </p>

Badaxe Ba
03-26-2007, 03:19 AM
From your description, there is just no way a group can become a x2, while in combat.  Sorry.  Seriously, you should have stopped and petitioned right then, and have a gm review the battle log.  TBH something in your story just doesn't add up.  One thing I noticed is that your battle went from one zone to another, that has different pvp ranges.  Are you taking this into consideration?  what might be an illegal target in ant can suddenly be eligible for combat upon entering TS.  Was anyone carnage flagged?  Remember that carnage flags can remove pvp level limits.

Greenion
03-26-2007, 09:52 AM
<p><span style="color: #339900">didnt read the whole thread just my opinion on the issue :</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">i think groupability and ungroupability should lock in relation to all characters entering pvp combat mode.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">meaning : if any PC enters into combat mode via a pvp action their entire group/raid is effected in that no one should be able to group into that group/raid or out of that group/raid until all members of that group/raid are simultaneously out of pvp related combat.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">my reasoning here is this...the teamed factions in a way are already all auto grouped, encounters and the level differential system work on a group basis...therefor, someone not "in group" with a set of teamed allies would be able to help them in a battle that was in level range of a common target without joining a group...however someone out of the level range cant...unless they join the group...that is the problem is it not.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">in pvp, teamed factions dont have to form "raids" per se to all be on the same team, they are already all on the same team. the way encounters work id think groupability/ungroupability locking when pvp engaged would suffice in jiving with the level differentials per zone.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">...it doesnt really effect me personally anyway...anyone can attack me anywhere anyway...just thought id give you my opinion.</span></p>

CresentBlade
03-26-2007, 10:14 AM
Dam Greenion was starting to thiink you dropped off the face of the earth.<img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Radigazt
03-26-2007, 11:35 AM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>From your description, there is just no way a group can become a x2, while in combat.  Sorry.  Seriously, you should have stopped and petitioned right then, and have a gm review the battle log.  TBH something in your story just doesn't add up.  One thing I noticed is that your battle went from one zone to another, that has different pvp ranges.  Are you taking this into consideration?  what might be an illegal target in ant can suddenly be eligible for combat upon entering TS.  Was anyone carnage flagged?  Remember that carnage flags can remove pvp level limits.</blockquote><p> OK, let me see if I can clarify some of this for you piece by piece.  Sorry if I wasn't clear enough at first, but I'll try my best to be as clear as possible this time.  </p><p>1.  Yes, they went from being a group of yellows and oranges to being an x2 raid of yellows and mostly oranges.  That's the problem and it needs to be fixed, they must have had the raid-invite window open before the fight started, then when we all had been sucked into the group v. group fight they instantly became an x2 and the 2nd group came in.  </p><p>2.  It all occurred in one zone ... Thundering Steppes.  We chased this guy all around TS and he stopped on the docks of TS in immunity.  We waited for him, he just stayed there for a long while.  Then we decided despite the long chase we just weren't interested in waiting any longer so we moved to the griffon tower in TS near the gate to Antonica.  That griffon tower is where it all occurred.  We were preparing to fly away from the griffon tower in TS (the one close to the Antonica gate, which we commonly refer to as the Ant griff tower for convenience).  It all happened in Thundering Steppes.  </p><p>3.  While we never left Thundering Steppes until after the fight, the Q's were not in TS (at least nowhere close where we could see) until after we left the docks.  There were only 2 Q's at the TS docks when we left the docks area, the first Fae (can't think of his name at the moment) a yellow con, and an orange con guardian, Hanes.  </p><p>4.  When they showed up at the griffon tower (in TS but close to the TS gate to Antonica) it was not an x2 ... I have no idea where the 2nd group was located, but I'd guess they were at the Coldwind Station griffon tower maybe?  All I know is that the combat started as group v. group combat, and in mid-battle they became an x2 raid and that second group came in very very fast.  It was clearly a planned exploit of the raid-invite window, with the inteintion of ganking the greens (us) and it worked.  </p><p>5.  Nobody was carnage flagged.  To my knowledge they didn't have any red cons in their x2, it was all orange cons and yellow cons with more oranges than yellows I think.  </p><p>OK, I think that covers all of your questions, but if you think of any more I'll be glad to answer those as well.  This exploit is really cheesy and I hope SOE fixes it soon ... or just plain disables rewards when raided up.  </p>

Bozidar
03-26-2007, 11:46 AM
You should consider that the other group might have been in Ant, and zoned in.  Fight near zone lines and bells, and this will happen on occassion.

Harbringer Doom
03-26-2007, 12:51 PM
<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>You should consider that the other group might have been in Ant, and zoned in.  Fight near zone lines and bells, and this will happen on occassion.</blockquote> Maybe.  But this is happening no where near zone lines.  Just because his one instance may have been a zone in issue, doesn't mean this doesn't need to be looked at further. I should mention, I've suddenly experienced a drop off in the grouping exploit occurrence, I wonder if a fix is in.

Badaxe Ba
03-26-2007, 01:21 PM
<p>From the TS docks to TS antonica Griffon station is a huge amount of time for reinforcements to join.  Since none of the combatants were OOR, there is simply the possibility that you got hit by two separate groups.  There would be no reason to join as a 'raid', and truthfully, a benefit to staying as two separate groups would mean your MT taunts wouldn't be able to disrupt both groups.  The only possible way I can think of that this would be possible is a group leader being in another zone, and out of combat, while accepting/giving/receiving a raid invite.  If the whole group was there and fighting, this cannot happen.  Once again, if you witness what appears to be an exploit, immediately /petition.  Combat logs can be reviewed and marked speicifically to bring to a Dev's attention with an example of what you keep portraying as an exploit.  This will get results faster than the forums.  However, I'm quickly coming to the opinion that you just really don't like to lose, and any defeat handed to you by the opposing side results in a /cry Nerf/exploit!</p>

Bozidar
03-26-2007, 01:23 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>From the TS docks to TS antonica Griffon station is a huge amount of time for reinforcements to join.  Since none of the combatants were OOR, there is simply the possibility that you got hit by two separate groups.  There would be no reason to join as a 'raid', and truthfully, a benefit to staying as two separate groups would mean your MT taunts wouldn't be able to disrupt both groups.  The only possible way I can think of that this would be possible is a group leader being in another zone, and out of combat, while accepting/giving/receiving a raid invite.  If the whole group was there and fighting, this cannot happen.  Once again, if you witness what appears to be an exploit, immediately /petition.  Combat logs can be reviewed and marked speicifically to bring to a Dev's attention with an example of what you keep portraying as an exploit.  This will get results faster than the forums.  However, I'm quickly coming to the opinion that you just really don't like to lose, and any defeat handed to you by the opposing side results in a /cry Nerf/exploit!</p></blockquote> I think he means their display changed to show they were a raid now.  And if they were fighting near the ant griff, then the other group was likely in Ant at the time the fight began, and zoned in for easy kills.. .

Aeralik
03-27-2007, 10:50 PM
Just as a follow up, I did manage to find 2 cases where it is failing.  Both of those should be fixed when GU33 goes live.

ZUES
03-27-2007, 10:55 PM
WOW. Props to Aeralik for actually posting about a concern players had. Good job!

Radigazt
03-27-2007, 11:40 PM
<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>You should consider that the other group might have been in Ant, and zoned in.  Fight near zone lines and bells, and this will happen on occassion.</blockquote> So you're saying that you can have a 2 group x2 raid and if none of the 2nd group are in the zone it doesn't show you as an x2 raid?  If so that's a horrible coding job.  I don't think that's the case ... and I really hope that's not the case.  If you're a member of an x2 raid, you should have the x2 raid tag .... and I'm fairly certain that you will even if you're the only person from the entire raid in the zone.  That's not what happened I don't think ... he became a raid mid-fight. 

Radigazt
03-27-2007, 11:44 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>From the TS docks to TS antonica Griffon station is a huge amount of time for reinforcements to join.  Since none of the combatants were OOR, there is simply the possibility that you got hit by two separate groups.  There would be no reason to join as a 'raid', and truthfully, a benefit to staying as two separate groups would mean your MT taunts wouldn't be able to disrupt both groups.  The only possible way I can think of that this would be possible is a group leader being in another zone, and out of combat, while accepting/giving/receiving a raid invite.  If the whole group was there and fighting, this cannot happen.  Once again, if you witness what appears to be an exploit, immediately /petition.  Combat logs can be reviewed and marked speicifically to bring to a Dev's attention with an example of what you keep portraying as an exploit.  This will get results faster than the forums.  However, I'm quickly coming to the opinion that you just really don't like to lose, and any defeat handed to you by the opposing side results in a /cry Nerf/exploit!</p></blockquote> I'm really wondering if your'e reading what I've written earlier.  They were NOT a raid ... then mid-fight the same guys I was fighting BECAME A RAID mid-fight.  And, their buddies in the 2nd group of the raid rolled in ... and got tons of infamy.  Sure, they could have attacked without being a raid, but they didn't.  They became a raid and the people who arrived late to the fight got infamy even if they hit me when I had 5% health, because their raid hit me earlier.  So, the result was that the entire second group took infamy.  It's not about dying to 12 oranges and yellows ... it's about losing infamy to them, which is why the Q's used this exploit. 

Radigazt
03-27-2007, 11:48 PM
<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just as a follow up, I did manage to find 2 cases where it is failing.  Both of those should be fixed when GU33 goes live. </blockquote> Thanks Aeralik ... hopefully now Harry understands now, because he sure seems dead-set on trying to disbelive me, heh. 

Harbringer Doom
03-28-2007, 12:40 AM
<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just as a follow up, I did manage to find 2 cases where it is failing.  Both of those should be fixed when GU33 goes live. </blockquote> As one of the more critical voices in this thread, I just want to say thank you, and I appreciate the work you put into discovering the manner in which this was happening. I knew I wasn't crazy. About this, anyway. Thanks again. Harry?  Do you believe me now?

Badaxe Ba
03-28-2007, 02:42 AM
<p>I don't disbelieve, I just believe in Teh 'Show me".  Also, I firmly believe that the better solution is thru /petition, not forum spamming.  Coming to the forums, and crying exploit, only encourages others to seek the same exploits.  Its why forum rules specifically mention this.  I am glad that the dev WAS able to find teh evidence to shut the door to these exploits.  If you go back to all my posts, I stuck to my theme of 'keep it off the forums.'</p><p>Notice that Aerilik didn't go into any details of what was found to be failing.  Advertising ways to cheat only encourages cheaters.</p>

Harbringer Doom
03-28-2007, 09:55 AM
You and I have different levels of faith in the petition process. And TBH, I find the more people that learn about an exploit, the quicker it gets fixed. I'm not one for brushing things under the table, hush hush-like.  I think that just breeds frustration on the part of the legitimate player.  People deserve to be informed.

Harbringer Doom
03-28-2007, 09:57 AM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>I don't disbelieve, I just believe in Teh 'Show me".  </p></blockquote> Oh, and, by the way... [email protected] wrote: <blockquote>There is no way to invite during pvp battle, you get a message saying you can't invite or join a group during pvp.  Some other method is being used, more than likely it is your pocket red waiting just outside a zoneline, IMO. </blockquote> <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Gaeus
03-28-2007, 08:51 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>You and I have different levels of faith in the petition process. And TBH, I find the more people that learn about an exploit, the quicker it gets fixed. I'm not one for brushing things under the table, hush hush-like.  I think that just breeds frustration on the part of the legitimate player.  People deserve to be informed. </blockquote>Exactly.  The petition process does nothing, at least I have yet to be impressed.  At least here, if 500 more people pick up this exploit, then use it on some of you who doubt that it is occuring well then, maybe you will do your own petitions on it, or post here on the forums in agreement with those of us who have been victims to it.  Either way, the coder who responded to it on THESE forums to OUR complaints proves that the forums are not viewed as a simple platform for "whiners" but a viable place to make complaints.  Thanks.

Bloodfa
03-29-2007, 11:58 AM
<p>Thanks to <b>Aeralik</b>  for addressing the issue.  Nice to know that some of the guys behind the scenes keep in touch with the issues that matter to players.</p><p>By the way, interesting thread guys.</p>

Badaxe Ba
03-29-2007, 04:59 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>I don't disbelieve, I just believe in Teh 'Show me".  </p></blockquote> Oh, and, by the way... [email protected] wrote: <blockquote>There is no way to invite during pvp battle, you get a message saying you can't invite or join a group during pvp.  <b><u><span style="color: #cc0066">Some other method is being used</span></u></b>, more than likely it is your pocket red waiting just outside a zoneline, IMO. </blockquote> <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote><p><b>From GU33 update notes </b></p><p><b>*** PVP ***</b> </p><ul><li>Updated several zone lines to prevent PvP exploitation. </li></ul><p>As I said, it wasn't an overall game exploit.  Some other method WAS involved.  I was wrong, it wasn't a pocket red, apparently certain zonelines needed an update.  </p><p>This highlights the fact that an immediate petition, whether valid or not in the long run, helps pinpoint not only events and time, but place as well.</p><p>Thank you Aeralik for the fix.  </p><p>Oh, and BTW Tesar, to have so little faith in petition, but so much faith in the conspiracy theory of keeping things Hush Hush, is a little hypocritical donthca think?</p><p><img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Harbringer Doom
03-29-2007, 06:14 PM
[email protected] wrote some stuff, among it was the following: <blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <p><b>From GU33 update notes </b></p><p><b>*** PVP ***</b> </p><ul><li>Updated several zone lines to prevent PvP exploitation. </li></ul><p>As I said, it wasn't an overall game exploit.  Some other method WAS involved.  I was wrong, it wasn't a pocket red, apparently certain zonelines needed an update.  </p> <p>Oh, and BTW Tesar, to have so little faith in petition, but so much faith in the conspiracy theory of keeping things Hush Hush, is a little hypocritical donthca think?</p><p><img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p> </blockquote> Wait... why do you assume that the zone line update referenced above was related to the grouping exploit that was due to be remedied by Aeralik?   They're not keen on giving us details, so I'm not sure we'll ever find out. Maybe... just maybe... Aeralik can tell us, if it has been remedied, what the issue was and how the problem was manifesting. Also, you're going to have to explain your last comment to me.  While it is true that I have very little faith in /petition, believing that the forums get things done quicker, I don't think I've ever said I put "faith in the conspiracy theory of keeping things Hush Hush." Quite the opposite is true.  My un-edited post is right up there for review. But, if you think I'm a hypocrite I'm sure there is little I can write here to change your mind.

Harbringer Doom
03-29-2007, 06:24 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote> <p>This highlights the fact that an immediate petition, whether valid or not in the long run, helps pinpoint not only events and time, but place as well</p> </blockquote> I don't get why are you even on the forums discussing this if you don't think it helps?  Do you think the forum discussions that take place, like this one for example, lend any assistance to the devs attempting to address these problems?  If you think that /petition is the be all end all hero of the day in addressing these issues, why come here to discuss them?