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Radigazt
03-16-2007, 11:37 AM
<p>I have no idea when the development will start for EQ3, but I'm hoping that it eventually happens.  When it does, here are some ideas I really hope the developers seriously consider:</p><p><b><u>1.  Recast Timers</u></b> When designing for PvP, make sure no recast timer is longer than 1 minute.  Those fancy 5 and 15 minute powers are balanced in PvE by their recharge time, but in PvP u get people who Harm Touch then camp for 15 minutes then Harm Touch ... avoiding playing their classes at all.  And all those little 3 and 5 minute DPS and Haste buffs stack, so you get juggernaut Swashbucklers that have plate-tank mitigation and avoidance, and way more dps .. these things aren't balanced, and it's going to be very hard to change it now.  </p><p><b><u>2.  Mitigation Caps</u></b> You cannot give chain and leather wearing classes the same mitigation caps as plate wearers.  There should be an obvious difference between the armor types.  Otherwise, it's too hard to balance dps and other things when you let the dps classes reach tank survivability.  </p><p><b><u>3.  Resistances</u></b> Lower the resistances on gear, eliminate outright resisting spells, and treat it more like mitigation ... except that each class should have a point of diminishing returns on resistances.  Tanks should have the highest point, followed by Priests, then Mages and lastly Scouts.  Rock/Scissors/Paper.  Tanks lack DPS but have the ultimate survivability, Scouts have high mitigation but low resistances.  Priests have high resistances and low mitigation.  Mages have very high resistances and low mitigation.  </p><p><b><u>4.  Taunts</u></b> OK, they're an MMO staple ... but they make no sense and they're counter-productive in PvP.  Taunting is not ever going to be a balanced way to hold aggro in PvP.  Consider making taunts attacks, not hate transferring powers.  De-taunts work fine.  </p><p><b><u>5.  3-D movement</u></b> This game sorely lacks true 3D movement.  Enable air combat for mages using the physics for water movement.  Allow tanks to jump and mages to fly.  </p><p><b><u>6.  PvP combat length</u></b> Try to make the length of fights last somewhere between 30 seconds and 3 minutes.  Nobody enjoys dying in 5 seconds becasue it breeds a feeling of hopelessness and utter futility.  Dying in 30 seconds makes everyone feel like they had a chance.  </p><p><b><u>7.  Cast Timers</u></b> I understand why you have the Wizard with very long cast timers--to facilitate the player new to MMO's and unable to controll his character as quickly.  But, either as he levels up, or as an option in the AA lines, you need to make sure that his not gimped by cast times that take too long ... interrupts and stuns cripple him and he really has no chance in PvP.  Give him some way to normalize the cast times and stop the interrupts, stuns, etc.  Perhaps an AA line that sped up his recast timers and a new spell that added a half-second to the cast times of his foe (meaning scouts with half-second cast times would now take 1 full second to cast any combat art).  </p><p><b><u>8.  Soloing</u></b> It's not possible now, but everyone wants to be able to solo on every character.  As it is, Tracking is too powerful and classes without Tracking can't really solo.  I absolutely prefer group v group PvP, but I realize that everyone else out there wants to be able to solo with their mages, healers and tanks.  </p><p><b><u>9.  Incentivize PvP'ing</u></b> This is one place where SOE really dropped the ball in EQ2, their loss-of-infamy system, zone-immunity, and a bunch of other rules have created DIS-incentives to PvP ... people with titles avoid PvP.  Next time, make sure all of your rules actually encourage PvP'ing.  That's why people come to a PvP server, they want to PvP ... but they're usually the ultra-competitive types who aren't going to risk losing something to do it, so don't have death penalties.</p><p><b><u>10.  Bind Rushing</u></b> This should be easily fixed by making it impossible to kill anyone on your recent list ... then when someone kills  you, he's on  your recent list and you're on his recent list.  Then reduce the recent list to like 3 minutes.  Get rid of the revived sickness stuff.  That only means that if you die to person A, you will be unable to compete against person B after you revive.  So, you really don't want to die because it may mean several more deaths without a chance to win.  </p><p><b><u>11.  Raiding</u></b> Find a solution, but IMHO, you should not be able to raid up and still PvP unless you are engaged with an Epic mob.  So, if you're fighting a contested Epic mob and you get jumped, you can defend yourself.  If you raid up and you're NOT fighting an Epic mob, then you cannot PvP at all.  This would end the madness that is lemming PvP.  </p><p><b><u>12.  Mentoring</u></b> Fix mentoring so that a mentored player isn't so insanely uber it's not fair.  I suggest mentoring everyone down to Mastercrafted gear.  That includes the stats, mitigation, resistances, and most importantly Procs.  If the Mastercrafted version doesn't have that proc, then the proc doesn't work while mentored.  If your chest piece has a proc, you get the standard mastercrafted proc instead when you mentor down.  Mastercrafted is good enough to compete, yet still leaves room to go after better Legendary and Fabled gear.  Also, cap the # of AA points to your level (i.e. if you're mentored to level 20, you get to use the first 20 AA points you spent, but any more than that are greyed out and unusable while mentored).  Remove any racial traits, etc. that happened after the level you're mentoring down to play.  Then, let mentored players PvP.  Set a level for the zone so that players could mentor the zone effectively and everyone would be a white con.  </p><p>There are a bunch more lessons to learn, but this should give you a heads up on some of the issues that need to be addressed when you start developing EQ3.  Design it for PvP, and make sure every class can solo PvP--that means survivabilty and DPS should be available somewhere, spells/ca's, AA's, etc.  I'm sure other posters will add ideas to this list.  </p>

Taldier
03-16-2007, 03:29 PM
<p>imo soe should be concentrating on making the game we already have better.  EQ3 just means that we have to pay them MORE money, and restart AGAIN.  Why ask them to concentrate on a new game when they could be making the one we already play better.  While I agree with some of your suggestions, and disagree with others... the only one that would likely require a new game is the 3D movement one. (just cause I assume this would require drastic changes to the game engine)</p><p>Well thats my 2cp</p>

tass
03-16-2007, 04:12 PM
[Removed for Content] this game has been out for about 2 years and u expect a newer 1? eq1 was aout for about 5 I think before this came out. And the only reason this came out was to update the graphics engines and implement a new story line. This game still has a good many years of suckn money out of everyones pocket in expansions and whatnot to be ditching it for another.

Greenion
03-16-2007, 04:19 PM
<p><span style="color: #339900">i heard from someone once that eqii could go up to 400 levels...</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">we still have a way to go yet here.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">edit> your ideas arent all that bad though eh.</span></p>

Splintered
03-16-2007, 05:21 PM
<cite>tass wrote:</cite><blockquote>[Removed for Content] this game has been out for about 2 years and u expect a newer 1? eq1 was aout for about 5 I think before this came out. And the only reason this came out was to update the graphics engines and implement a new story line. This game still has a good many years of suckn money out of everyones pocket in expansions and whatnot to be ditching it for another. </blockquote>It has been active since 12:01 am. November 10th, 2004. Thats 3 years and 4 months, not 2 years....

Spag
03-16-2007, 05:50 PM
<cite>Splintered wrote:</cite><blockquote>It has been active since 12:01 am. November 10th, 2004. Thats 3 years and 4 months, not 2 years.... </blockquote> Where did you learn your math?

ZUES
03-16-2007, 05:54 PM
<p>LOL</p><p>We still have a good 4 years left in EQ2. Dont rush the day cause alot of new content coming your way! Cool, that rymed!</p>

CresentBlade
03-16-2007, 06:15 PM
I really hope they let some one who gives a dam about their customers make EQ3.

Greenion
03-16-2007, 06:30 PM
<p><span style="color: #339900">they did, same guy who made eq1, its been out for a few months now...</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">oh...you expected a continuation of the same story instead of a new one...</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">edit> i know you arent actually insinuating the development team of eqii doesnt care at all about its players...you just hope the next team cares as much...</span></p>

CresentBlade
03-16-2007, 06:52 PM
<cite>Greenion wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><span style="color: #339900">they did, same guy who made eq1, its been out for a few months now...</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">oh...you expected a continuation of the same story instead of a new one...</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">edit> i know you arent actually insinuating the development team of eqii doesnt care at all about its players...you just hope the next team cares as much...</span></p></blockquote><p>Vanguard is nothing like EQ not even remotely. Vanguard was beyond a let down, any game that starts in the all access instead of ending up there really sucks. They had lofty ideals and spent all their money and still did not even finish the game. If the game was worth a dam someone would of backed them with money to finish the game yet no one did so it ends up in all access.</p><p>Hell I would pick WoW over Vanguard and I <strike>Hate</strike> (strongly dislike) Wow </p>

Greenion
03-17-2007, 12:01 AM
<p><span style="color: #339900"> um...hate to break it to you but eqii was part of all access when it launched also....</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">strange, vg works and looks great on my machine...and i avg about 20-25 fps....</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">gl with it dood.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">edit> btw eqlive/vg swimming animations...identical.</span></p>

syous01
03-17-2007, 03:07 AM
<cite>Splintered wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>tass wrote:</cite><blockquote>[Removed for Content] this game has been out for about 2 years and u expect a newer 1? eq1 was aout for about 5 I think before this came out. And the only reason this came out was to update the graphics engines and implement a new story line. This game still has a good many years of suckn money out of everyones pocket in expansions and whatnot to be ditching it for another. </blockquote>It has been active since 12:01 am. November 10th, 2004. Thats 3 years and 4 months, not 2 years.... </blockquote>2 years and 4 months. Not 3.

tass
03-17-2007, 03:23 PM
<cite>Greenion wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><span style="color: #339900"> um...hate to break it to you but eqii was part of all access when it launched also....</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">strange, vg works and looks great on my machine...and i avg about 20-25 fps....</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">gl with it dood.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">edit> btw eqlive/vg swimming animations...identical.</span></p></blockquote>lol same with mine only O get about 45 fps out in zones if I have higher performance on. People [Removed for Content] that the game sucks because theyre pc wont play it. Well its either their pc (and god knows people have alot of sad pc's) or its there hardware. Anyway back to the point. Vanguard is the eq1 of the graphics of eq2. Except in some parts. Like char they look alot more human like where eq2 went the route of textures and all that to make it look human but still hold on to that cartoon animation which works both ways. And dare I say it. FFA KICKS [Removed for Content]

Palleon
03-17-2007, 03:40 PM
<p>if you dont like the game, can I suggest you try one of the other MMOs on the market instead of begging for another EQ. Some of us like this one.</p>

Greenion
03-17-2007, 03:47 PM
<p><span style="color: #00ff00"><span style="color: #339900">i think at least some of the ideas the op is putting forward are possibly applicable to eqii</span>...</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00"><span style="color: #99cc00">edit</span>> <span style="color: #339900">and</span>...<span style="color: #339900">im quite fond of eqii btw for the record</span>...<span style="color: #339900">that doesnt mean i cant appreciate other games as well</span>. <span style="color: #339900">and i know you werent talking to me</span>, <span style="color: #339900">just wanted to say it <img src="/smilies/0320a00cb4bb5629ab9fc2bc1fcc4e9e.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span></span></p>

Splintered
03-17-2007, 09:52 PM
<cite>Spag wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Splintered wrote:</cite><blockquote>It has been active since 12:01 am. November 10th, 2004. Thats 3 years and 4 months, not 2 years.... </blockquote> Where did you learn your math?</blockquote> **innocently looks back** by golly, those [Removed for Content] elementary school teachers told me i had my math down!

Armondpb
03-18-2007, 10:14 AM
<cite>Radigazt wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I have no idea when the development will start for EQ3, but I'm hoping that it eventually happens.  When it does, here are some ideas I really hope the developers seriously consider:</p><p><b><u>1.  Recast Timers</u></b> When designing for PvP, make sure no recast timer is longer than 1 minute.  Those fancy 5 and 15 minute powers are balanced in PvE by their recharge time, but in PvP u get people who Harm Touch then camp for 15 minutes then Harm Touch ... avoiding playing their classes at all.  And all those little 3 and 5 minute DPS and Haste buffs stack, so you get juggernaut Swashbucklers that have plate-tank mitigation and avoidance, and way more dps .. these things aren't balanced, and it's going to be very hard to change it now.  </p><p><b><u>2.  Mitigation Caps</u></b> You cannot give chain and leather wearing classes the same mitigation caps as plate wearers.  There should be an obvious difference between the armor types.  Otherwise, it's too hard to balance dps and other things when you let the dps classes reach tank survivability.  </p><p><b><u>3.  Resistances</u></b> Lower the resistances on gear, eliminate outright resisting spells, and treat it more like mitigation ... except that each class should have a point of diminishing returns on resistances.  Tanks should have the highest point, followed by Priests, then Mages and lastly Scouts.  Rock/Scissors/Paper.  Tanks lack DPS but have the ultimate survivability, Scouts have high mitigation but low resistances.  Priests have high resistances and low mitigation.  Mages have very high resistances and low mitigation.  </p><p><b><u>4.  Taunts</u></b> OK, they're an MMO staple ... but they make no sense and they're counter-productive in PvP.  Taunting is not ever going to be a balanced way to hold aggro in PvP.  Consider making taunts attacks, not hate transferring powers.  De-taunts work fine.  </p><p><b><u>5.  3-D movement</u></b> This game sorely lacks true 3D movement.  Enable air combat for mages using the physics for water movement.  Allow tanks to jump and mages to fly.  </p><p><b><u>6.  PvP combat length</u></b> Try to make the length of fights last somewhere between 30 seconds and 3 minutes.  Nobody enjoys dying in 5 seconds becasue it breeds a feeling of hopelessness and utter futility.  Dying in 30 seconds makes everyone feel like they had a chance.  </p><p><b><u>7.  Cast Timers</u></b> I understand why you have the Wizard with very long cast timers--to facilitate the player new to MMO's and unable to controll his character as quickly.  But, either as he levels up, or as an option in the AA lines, you need to make sure that his not gimped by cast times that take too long ... interrupts and stuns cripple him and he really has no chance in PvP.  Give him some way to normalize the cast times and stop the interrupts, stuns, etc.  Perhaps an AA line that sped up his recast timers and a new spell that added a half-second to the cast times of his foe (meaning scouts with half-second cast times would now take 1 full second to cast any combat art).  </p><p><b><u>8.  Soloing</u></b> It's not possible now, but everyone wants to be able to solo on every character.  As it is, Tracking is too powerful and classes without Tracking can't really solo.  I absolutely prefer group v group PvP, but I realize that everyone else out there wants to be able to solo with their mages, healers and tanks.  </p><p><b><u>9.  Incentivize PvP'ing</u></b> This is one place where SOE really dropped the ball in EQ2, their loss-of-infamy system, zone-immunity, and a bunch of other rules have created DIS-incentives to PvP ... people with titles avoid PvP.  Next time, make sure all of your rules actually encourage PvP'ing.  That's why people come to a PvP server, they want to PvP ... but they're usually the ultra-competitive types who aren't going to risk losing something to do it, so don't have death penalties.</p><p><b><u>10.  Bind Rushing</u></b> This should be easily fixed by making it impossible to kill anyone on your recent list ... then when someone kills  you, he's on  your recent list and you're on his recent list.  Then reduce the recent list to like 3 minutes.  Get rid of the revived sickness stuff.  That only means that if you die to person A, you will be unable to compete against person B after you revive.  So, you really don't want to die because it may mean several more deaths without a chance to win.  </p><p><b><u>11.  Raiding</u></b> Find a solution, but IMHO, you should not be able to raid up and still PvP unless you are engaged with an Epic mob.  So, if you're fighting a contested Epic mob and you get jumped, you can defend yourself.  If you raid up and you're NOT fighting an Epic mob, then you cannot PvP at all.  This would end the madness that is lemming PvP.  </p><p><b><u>12.  Mentoring</u></b> Fix mentoring so that a mentored player isn't so insanely uber it's not fair.  I suggest mentoring everyone down to Mastercrafted gear.  That includes the stats, mitigation, resistances, and most importantly Procs.  If the Mastercrafted version doesn't have that proc, then the proc doesn't work while mentored.  If your chest piece has a proc, you get the standard mastercrafted proc instead when you mentor down.  Mastercrafted is good enough to compete, yet still leaves room to go after better Legendary and Fabled gear.  Also, cap the # of AA points to your level (i.e. if you're mentored to level 20, you get to use the first 20 AA points you spent, but any more than that are greyed out and unusable while mentored).  Remove any racial traits, etc. that happened after the level you're mentoring down to play.  Then, let mentored players PvP.  Set a level for the zone so that players could mentor the zone effectively and everyone would be a white con.  </p><p>There are a bunch more lessons to learn, but this should give you a heads up on some of the issues that need to be addressed when you start developing EQ3.  Design it for PvP, and make sure every class can solo PvP--that means survivabilty and DPS should be available somewhere, spells/ca's, AA's, etc.  I'm sure other posters will add ideas to this list.  </p></blockquote>Great ideas.

tass
03-18-2007, 04:15 PM
<cite>Splintered wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Spag wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Splintered wrote:</cite><blockquote>It has been active since 12:01 am. November 10th, 2004. Thats 3 years and 4 months, not 2 years.... </blockquote> Where did you learn your math?</blockquote> **innocently looks back** by golly, those [I cannot control my vocabulary] elementary school teachers told me i had my math down! </blockquote>[Removed for Content] best reply ive seen for that.

Bawang
03-19-2007, 07:04 PM
<p>The whole MMORPG model needs rethinking.  The combination of mindless questing and mindless killing of mobs for XP has become stale.  I propose a new model for quests:</p><p> 1.  Quest should be entertaining.  No more of the drudgery of waiting forever for the mob you need to show up.  No more of the rare drops for multiple number items needed for quests.  Wasting hour upon hour waiting for things to happen is not entertaining except to a particular niche of the population who are masochists (yes, I include myself but even I am getting tired of the routine).</p><p>2. Quest should be intelligently written.  They should have a story with characters acting out dramatically.  They should be written by professional fiction writers and they should be intellectually challenging.</p><p>3. The difficulty level of quests should be based on other than the timesink factor.  Maybe you can increase the number of steps, but keep each step fast moving and interesting.</p>

CresentBlade
03-20-2007, 03:21 AM
<p>When you kill a player you can steal one of their quests and they are not allowed to get it again once they lose it.</p>