PDA

View Full Version : What can dispell engarde? Please we all need a Swashy strats discussion.


DankShasta
03-10-2007, 05:06 PM
hhmmmm? I'm trying to figure out what my options are against engarde, and inspiration. What is working for you guys? <p>Dankshasta/Technics</p>

Norrsken
03-10-2007, 05:21 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>hhmmmm? I'm trying to figure out what my options are against engarde, and inspiration. What is working for you guys? <p>Dankshasta/Technics</p></blockquote>For me, divine aura seems to work.

Darlion
03-11-2007, 12:11 AM
<p>It's not a beneficial spell, you can't dispell it. Your best bet it to sprint off and wait. Hit em with a mez or a fear if you can.</p>

TheLopper
03-11-2007, 01:01 AM
<p>Even then, you're a dirge, what are you going to be able to do regardless?</p><p>Unless the swash is completely horrible that is.</p>

Harbing
03-11-2007, 01:35 AM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>hhmmmm? I'm trying to figure out what my options are against engarde, and inspiration. What is working for you guys? <p>Dankshasta/Technics</p></blockquote> Here are your options: You can snare the swashie, stop attacking and try to run away for 36 secs (the duration of En Garde) burning all your power while he snares you too and still can hit you with all his CAs and autoattacks (reach AA ftw). You can be a noob Monk, hit Tsunami and insta-die. You can, assuming you re a scout, always use Butterfly totems and once you see them on track hit Escape. .... You can get a full party to go against the swashie so the odds are even. On a more serious note. Against a half decent player who plays a Swashie with En garde and / or Inspriation up you ll prolly loose in many cases.  If they happen to have the PvP Tsunami Belt and some other raid / PvP Gear you ll loose in allmost all cases. Their sheer damage output and amount of utility is just ridiculous.

tass
03-11-2007, 02:23 AM
true but its the spell every swash aspires to reach that high lv for. And if you know the spells and the class and combine them all in 1 smooth motion the swash is ur deadliest enemy. Took me awhile to test each spell of my swash on raids and maneuver them and time them but once I did I bitchslapped those mages outa the top 5 and took my place.

TheLopper
03-11-2007, 02:29 AM
If only you could do the same on your assassin.

Cocytus
03-11-2007, 04:16 AM
<p>lol</p><p>I love threads where people think skill in PVP means nothing.</p><p>I give this thread an official helmet of mental handicap.</p>

Norrsken
03-11-2007, 05:13 AM
<cite>Cocytus wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>lol</p><p>I love threads where people think skill in PVP means nothing.</p><p>I give this thread an official helmet of mental handicap.</p></blockquote> Well, no point in denying that since they gave the brig the smackdown with the nerf bat, the swashies, being pretty much as powerful before, took the alpha spot. The only classes that really stand any chance are the ones that can lockthe swashy down and stay out of range while those two things go down, since they are pretty much auto kill skills for any swashy, in need of little or no skill. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Darlion
03-11-2007, 06:04 AM
<cite>Cocytus wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>lol</p><p>I love threads where people think skill in PVP means nothing.</p><p>I give this thread an official helmet of mental handicap.</p></blockquote><p> There are circumstances where you will die and skill has nothing to do with it. This is hardly always true, but anyone who disagrees with the following is a fool:</p><p>Order of importance for pvpers: Class>Gear>Skill</p><p>Class is the biggest factor, then gear, then skill. If you disagree with this, try beating a full fabled assassin with a handcrafted wizard. You could be the greatest wizard in the world, but unless the guy is afk, you're gonna die.</p>

bisfpnwg
03-11-2007, 10:45 PM
<cite>Darlion wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Class is the biggest factor, then gear, then skill. If you disagree with this, try beating a full fabled assassin with a handcrafted wizard. You could be the greatest wizard in the world, but unless the guy is afk, you're gonna die.</p></blockquote>Not if he just arrived at a cloud platform^^ , agreed on the class thingy tho.

shoockis
03-12-2007, 08:12 AM
I play troub that is pritty much the same as a dirge (i think)  and hardly kill swashys. But i try to always run and snare, mezz, shield bash and so on. And it can save your life. But they takes forever to kill cos you can only use range stuff.

Bozidar
03-12-2007, 10:12 AM
<cite>Darlion wrote:</cite><blockquote>There are circumstances where you will die and skill has nothing to do with it. This is hardly always true, but anyone who disagrees with the following is a fool: <p>Order of importance for pvpers: Class>Gear>Skill</p><p>Class is the biggest factor, then gear, then skill. If you disagree with this, try beating a full fabled assassin with a handcrafted wizard. You could be the greatest wizard in the world, but unless the guy is afk, you're gonna die.</p></blockquote><p> I agree to a point.  I think it all depends on the situation.</p><p>I'll play a, let's say T3, assassin in master crafted and let some nub play a swashy or a druid (both sin banes) in master crafted, and we'll see who wins.</p><p>Skill can very often overcome class importance, or gear importance.</p><p>But given a player with even moderate skill such as myself, it's going to be tough to overcome those advantages.</p><p>I'd say it's a diminishing return on skill, maybe.  As the skill of an opponent increases, the less it matters, and the more weight goes onto gear and class.</p>

Cocytus
03-12-2007, 09:31 PM
<p>You've got it all wrong.</p><p>Skill > class > gear.</p><p>Skill > all. The only time class plays a role is when it is a class weakness. *GASP CLASS WEAKNESSES WHAT ARE THOSE?!!?!?!?!?* Class weaknesses are like swashbuckler vs monk. Swashbucklers are DESIGNED to kill monks.</p><p>If you're good enough, you can find ways to beat a swashbuckler with most classes. All you have to do is use your brain. But oh [Removed for Content]! Nobody wants to use their brain! My 24 swashbuckler kills loads of people without AA (he has only 10), without en garde, without inspiration. Why? I use absolutely everything in my arsenal, AND EVEN THE ENVIRONMENT *gasp such a novel idea!* to my advantage. Any of you whiners ever try, say...I dunno, STUNNING as soon as you see the buffs up and running like hell until inspiration is down? Oh wait. There are so many people that think running is chicken [Removed for Content].</p><p>Funny so many complain about running, then they complain about being killed for not using strategy.</p>

Norrsken
03-13-2007, 07:12 AM
<cite>Cocytus wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>You've got it all wrong.</p><p>Skill > class > gear.</p><p>Skill > all. The only time class plays a role is when it is a class weakness. *GASP CLASS WEAKNESSES WHAT ARE THOSE?!!?!?!?!?* Class weaknesses are like swashbuckler vs monk. Swashbucklers are DESIGNED to kill monks.</p><p>If you're good enough, you can find ways to beat a swashbuckler with most classes. All you have to do is use your brain. But oh [I cannot control my vocabulary]! Nobody wants to use their brain! My 24 swashbuckler kills loads of people without AA (he has only 10), without en garde, without inspiration. Why? I use absolutely everything in my arsenal, AND EVEN THE ENVIRONMENT *gasp such a novel idea!* to my advantage. Any of you whiners ever try, say...I dunno, STUNNING as soon as you see the buffs up and running like hell until inspiration is down? Oh wait. There are so many people that think running is chicken [I cannot control my vocabulary].</p><p>Funny so many complain about running, then they complain about being killed for not using strategy.</p></blockquote>Just an interresting note, that is exactly how the brigs sounded before the nerfbat hit them. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Kurindor_Mythecnea
03-13-2007, 07:33 AM
 I think this concept of "skill" in MMORPGs can often be far too rampant. I honestly don't think it exists, unless of course, your criteria is how well formulaic execution can be had by the contender. This is what it takes to succeed in MMORPGs. Something requiring competence is that which calls for on the fly improvisation -- considering the vast multitude of scenarios can be quantified here in EQ2, quite simply, there often stands only a couple approaches suited for a mode of victory. So in reality, what matters, primarily, in EQ2, is Class, Gear, and then Prudence. These games are about precaution and attention to detail. To say skill matters most when you play a Swashie in T7, despite the fact how we all <b><i>know</i></b> so very well the integral nature of equipment, it's just discrediting to your standing in the community as a voice of contribution worth hearing (Cocytus).

Eldril
03-13-2007, 08:21 AM
<p>At the end of the day I really hope they do nerf us actually so this endless whining stops and comments like "you achieved what you did only cause you play an overpowered class" end. As I said....with or without nerf....good swashies will still remain good....so I really want to see after En garde and Inspiration what is up next for whining....ohh wait I forgot...reach...but I guess that is on another thread....</p><p>Over and out</p><p>General Delolith Durothil, Scallywag of Purity</p><p>70lvl Swashbuckler, Darathar (PvP?)</p><p>P.S Dakshasta are you Acolos twin brother or something...cause you certainly do sound a lot like him. And that is not a compliment.</p>

Kurindor_Mythecnea
03-13-2007, 08:37 AM
That's the attitude to have! Achieving balance is key, and hopefully SOE is working toward that.

Mildavyn
03-13-2007, 08:40 AM
<cite>Cocytus wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>You've got it all wrong.</p><p>Skill > class > gear.</p><p>Skill > all. The only time class plays a role is when it is a class weakness. *GASP CLASS WEAKNESSES WHAT ARE THOSE?!!?!?!?!?* Class weaknesses are like swashbuckler vs monk. Swashbucklers are DESIGNED to kill monks.</p><p>If you're good enough, you can find ways to beat a swashbuckler with most classes. All you have to do is use your brain. But oh [I cannot control my vocabulary]! Nobody wants to use their brain! My 24 swashbuckler kills loads of people without AA (he has only 10), without en garde, without inspiration. Why? I use absolutely everything in my arsenal, AND EVEN THE ENVIRONMENT *gasp such a novel idea!* to my advantage. Any of you whiners ever try, say...I dunno, STUNNING as soon as you see the buffs up and running like hell until inspiration is down? Oh wait. There are so many people that think running is chicken [I cannot control my vocabulary].</p><p>Funny so many complain about running, then they complain about being killed for not using strategy.</p></blockquote><p>If you're talking about t5 or lower PvP, then Swashies aren't anywhere near overpowered. If you're talking about t7 PvP (which is what I am) then you've either never played a t7 swash, or you've never played any other t7 class and just think you're a skilled/good player. Or you're a [Removed for Content], but i wont accuse you of that... yet.</p><p>Class > Gear. Skill has almost nothing to do with PvP once you know what all those buttons do. Especially as a swashbuckler. Get the right AAs, put your buffs up and you win with auto-attack.</p><p>Inspiration (Master I) 214-356 damage proc on every successful melee attack (thats BASE, un-modified damage BTW, STR will increase it)</p><p>Engarde (Master I) 293-489 damage proc on every parrr/riposte/dodge/block/deflect by either yourself or your target. (again, unmodified)</p><p>Arctic Blast (Master I) 67% snare and two 247-411 damage ranged attacks.</p><p>Impair (Master I) 68% snare and 223-372 melee damage</p><p>Constrain (Master I) 69% snare</p><p>TOTAL SNARE %age with all 3 active: <span style="font-size: x-large">204%</span> - You aren't getting away... EVER</p><p>PvP belt: 100% chance to parry EVERY melee attack for 10 seconds (not sure if it affects attacks from behind)</p><p>Then we move on to just the few Swash AAs that i know of.</p><p>Reach: Increase range by 5, then DOUBLE it for melee (+5, then increase by 100%). That gives your melee a range of 20 meters.</p><p>Lunge Reversal: next parry/riposte/etc will proc for 315-525 damage at rank 4. At rank 8 it will do 409-682 damage.</p><p>Freehand Reversal(1 point only for 20% double attack)+Unencumberance (+6.5% per point): 20%+6.5% per point = 72% chance to double attack on all auto-attacks. (Second attack does not trigger most procs, but it DOES trigger Inspiration)</p><p>Avast Ye: Chance to proc for 500-834 damage when behind or flanking an opponent. At rank 4 it is an 8% proc chance, at rank 8, 16%</p><p>So to kill a swashy you will need atleast 1 friend, and more would be better. Oh but wait... Hurricane (Master I) 50% chance for all auto-attacks to become AEs... which by the way will also trigger ALL those procs from inspiration etc. So a swash is probably going to chew a nice hole in a full group as well if they get the drop.</p><p>To sum up, I'd just like to say... NERF SWASHBUCKLERS IN PVP.</p><p>EDIT: To answer the OPs question, I dont know of ANY way to dispell Engarde, other than waiting for it to run out.</p>

N3xus0n3
03-13-2007, 11:27 AM
<p>I have a feeling that using a Pumice Stone on a swashy will remove En Garde or Inspiration, the fear that my class has is exceptionally useless given it is a level 50 spell and our mezz, which I have in M1, is constantly resisted. Basically En Garde is FTW's in PVP, as my good friend Delo and I have tested on numerous occasions. However if they nerf it then they need to be very carfeul about how.</p><p> My solutions to En Garde and reach go as follows.</p><p>1. <en garde started> Run! Run! Sprint! Run! Pot cure the inevitable snare and run some more!</p><p>2. Use the terrain to your advantage, find a lift you can use that they can't get on (Drednever crashsite), jump off cliffs and try and land on a ledge that they will miss on the way down (numerous locations).</p><p>Yes, this is the hardest ability to get around in PVP and I pull my hair out when half [Removed for Content] swashies kill me with it, but I'll get around it eventually.</p>

Eldril
03-13-2007, 11:40 AM
<p>Mildavyn seriously man look a bit deeper to make a numeric post than just browsing the first skill listing site you see on the internet.... </p><p>First of all the 3 snares do not add....you will be maximum 70% movement impared which can be refreshed though by the other snare abilities....not 204%...where did you get that from seriously..</p><p>Second...you are wrong about reach...the range for reach is 10 meters for autoattacks and 15 meteres for Combat abilities...undisputable undiscussable etc...it is written on the modified CA when you inspect them too....and you can hit your CAs farther than you can autoattack...so it is 10 meters and 15...get your facts straight</p><p>General Delolith Durothil, Scallywag of Purity</p><p>70lvl Swashbuckler, Darathar (PvP?)</p><p>P.S ahh yes and something else that I noticed....Lunge Rerversal...20 seconds cooldown from the time it procs so...I don't think you will get more than 1 proc per fight...max 2...+ Pirate Stab....when was the last time you let a swashy on your back for more than 2 seconds...and if you did...I think it is your mistake....cause certainly we cannot force you to stay put.</p>

DankShasta
03-13-2007, 11:59 AM
<cite>Eldril wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>At the end of the day I really hope they do nerf us actually so this endless whining stops and comments like "you achieved what you did only cause you play an overpowered class" end. As I said....with or without nerf....good swashies will still remain good....so I really want to see after En garde and Inspiration what is up next for whining....ohh wait I forgot...reach...but I guess that is on another thread....</p><p>Over and out</p><p>General Delolith Durothil, Scallywag of Purity</p><p>70lvl Swashbuckler, Darathar (PvP?)</p><p>P.S Dakshasta are you Acolos twin brother or something...cause you certainly do sound a lot like him. And that is not a compliment.</p></blockquote><p> No, he is a friend though, and probably the second best bard WW. I think your just butt sore cuz he kicks butt on a Bard, and you do so on a Swashbuckler, just like everyone who plays a swashbuckler, so it means nothing  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Dankshasta/Technics</p>

Mildavyn
03-13-2007, 12:27 PM
<cite>Eldril wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Mildavyn seriously man look a bit deeper to make a numeric post than just browsing the first skill listing site you see on the internet.... </p><p>First of all the 3 snares do not add....you will be maximum 70% movement impared which can be refreshed though by the other snare abilities....not 204%...where did you get that from seriously..</p><p>Second...you are wrong about reach...the range for reach is 10 meters for autoattacks and 15 meteres for Combat abilities...undisputable undiscussable etc...it is written on the modified CA when you inspect them too....and you can hit your CAs farther than you can autoattack...so it is 10 meters and 15...get your facts straight</p><p>General Delolith Durothil, Scallywag of Purity</p><p>70lvl Swashbuckler, Darathar (PvP?)</p><p>P.S ahh yes and something else that I noticed....Lunge Rerversal...20 seconds cooldown from the time it procs so...I don't think you will get more than 1 proc per fight...max 2...+ Pirate Stab....when was the last time you let a swashy on your back for more than 2 seconds...and if you did...I think it is your mistake....cause certainly we cannot force you to stay put.</p></blockquote><p>70% snare, along with reach and all those procs is enough. I assumed that adding 5 to 5 then doubling it would give 20, its not my fault SoE cant do basic arithmatic, or add misleading descriptions to their AAs. Also i can't inspect the CAs, cos i dont have a swash.</p><p>Yes i know lunge reversal is on a 20 second timer, but its still another proc. Pirate stab is a low chance, and requires you to be flanking, but you also get a skill that FORCES your target to turn away from you for 2? seconds, as well as stuns which will let you get there. </p><p>Also when was the last time i survived against a swashy for more than 10 seconds? They quite often do more damage with auto-attack alone than i can manage with a fully-debuffed target and going full-tilt on DPS. I only have 7k hps... most swashies chew through that in less than 6 seconds. </p>

Eldril
03-13-2007, 01:29 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><cite>Eldril wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>At the end of the day I really hope they do nerf us actually so this endless whining stops and comments like "you achieved what you did only cause you play an overpowered class" end. As I said....with or without nerf....good swashies will still remain good....so I really want to see after En garde and Inspiration what is up next for whining....ohh wait I forgot...reach...but I guess that is on another thread....</p><p>Over and out</p><p>General Delolith Durothil, Scallywag of Purity</p><p>70lvl Swashbuckler, Darathar (PvP?)</p><p>P.S Dakshasta are you Acolos twin brother or something...cause you certainly do sound a lot like him. And that is not a compliment.</p></blockquote><p> No, he is a friend though, and probably the second best bard WW. I think your just butt sore cuz he kicks butt on a Bard, and you do so on a Swashbuckler, just like everyone who plays a swashbuckler, so it means nothing  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Dankshasta/Technics</p></blockquote><p>Nah he is just too loud and self applauding for my tase<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>General Delolith Durothil, Scallywag of Purity</p><p>70lvl Swashbuckler, Darathar (PvP?)</p>

Eldril
03-13-2007, 01:32 PM
<cite>Mildavyn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Eldril wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Mildavyn seriously man look a bit deeper to make a numeric post than just browsing the first skill listing site you see on the internet.... </p><p>First of all the 3 snares do not add....you will be maximum 70% movement impared which can be refreshed though by the other snare abilities....not 204%...where did you get that from seriously..</p><p>Second...you are wrong about reach...the range for reach is 10 meters for autoattacks and 15 meteres for Combat abilities...undisputable undiscussable etc...it is written on the modified CA when you inspect them too....and you can hit your CAs farther than you can autoattack...so it is 10 meters and 15...get your facts straight</p><p>General Delolith Durothil, Scallywag of Purity</p><p>70lvl Swashbuckler, Darathar (PvP?)</p><p>P.S ahh yes and something else that I noticed....Lunge Rerversal...20 seconds cooldown from the time it procs so...I don't think you will get more than 1 proc per fight...max 2...+ Pirate Stab....when was the last time you let a swashy on your back for more than 2 seconds...and if you did...I think it is your mistake....cause certainly we cannot force you to stay put.</p></blockquote><p>70% snare, along with reach and all those procs is enough. I assumed that adding 5 to 5 then doubling it would give 20, its not my fault SoE cant do basic arithmatic, or add misleading descriptions to their AAs. Also i can't inspect the CAs, cos i dont have a swash.</p><p>Yes i know lunge reversal is on a 20 second timer, but its still another proc. Pirate stab is a low chance, and requires you to be flanking, but you also get a skill that FORCES your target to turn away from you for 2? seconds, as well as stuns which will let you get there. </p><p>Also when was the last time i survived against a swashy for more than 10 seconds? They quite often do more damage with auto-attack alone than i can manage with a fully-debuffed target and going full-tilt on DPS. I only have 7k hps... most swashies chew through that in less than 6 seconds. </p></blockquote><p>Actually the thing is that the days before reach...a skilled troubadour could kite you to oblivion... and in case you didn't have 5k+ mental resist you had not even a single chance to get close to them to put a dent on their armor. Inspiration and En garde? pffft enough to make them go away with a simple mez. So actually reach gave swashies a valid way to kill some kiters without having a Arcane Remedy potion. And that is bad why?</p><p>General Delolith Durothil, Scallywag of Purity</p><p>70lvl Swashbuckler, Darathar (PvP?)</p>

artophwar
03-13-2007, 02:02 PM
swashies are over powered end of story

Dak
03-13-2007, 02:26 PM
<p>I could sit here and be like "Wahh you guys just can't kill a class so you come to the boards and complain," but I will share logic from my point of view.  I can not beat a good bruiser as a swashbuckler.  I could try and kite them, but their avoidance is too high for my snares to land.  They have too many stuns/knockbacks to let me fight back.  I could pop all of my cooldowns and still die to a good player.  A good troubadour can beat a swashbuckler with reach: ask Azuresong... he retired his troub, but in his time he could do some damage no matter what "overpowered" abilities I use.  I have not run into another bard that could do what he did.  A good warden can easily outheal my damage.  A good fury can easily kite me.  A good monk can easily fear me or use their improved sprint to run off my cooldowns.</p><p>My point is, people don't try to figure out ways to counter what I can do, but instead come to the forums and complain.  There are many classes I can not beat and many that I can.  If a swashbuckler were to get nerfed (En Garde/Inspiration/Reach) any one of those classes would be happy when they saw a swashbuckler because we would be a free kill.  If you have seen my PvP video, I beat a lot of people without any cooldowns, but it's usually very close or the player is not any good at all.  If I go up against a good player such as Brokensword, Nightmares, or Kruhl (note those are all brigands) I can not do anything without using everything I have.  Therefore, if Swashbucklers were nerfed, then a lot of other classes would have to be brought down to that level.</p><p>Many skilled players of many different classes can bring me down as a swashbuckler (I consider my self atleast semi-skilled) and if we were to be nerfed, then the others would look at me as an annoyance or pest rather than a fight.  I am exiled so I do not have the 10 second 100% parry PvP belt, which I think is the major problem.  If those belts were to be removed from the game, I believe many of the people here complaining would be satisfied.  I have been playing a swashbuckler since the first days of Nagafen, and anyone I have fought can vouch for me when I say I do not rely on my cooldowns to win fights, but skill rather.  I will fight anyone without using those "overpowered" abilities and if the player is worth anything, the fight would not be much different (as in they will or will not win judging by their skill as a player). </p><p>As for Dankshasta, he knows nothing and has been level 45/46 his whole experience in EQ2 PvP.  He bought a 70 character off of eBay and thinks he has a say in anything.</p>

Splintered
03-13-2007, 03:07 PM
Well, lets take for example a bruiser vs a swashy... if a swashy used inspiration and en-garde, there is absolutly nothing that bruiser could do to win, (well, there is always a way, i.e. i would drag the mother fucker off a cliff with me!)

Eldril
03-13-2007, 03:15 PM
<p>Fear and run are your friends till en garde goes away....use your environment too..</p><p>General Delolith Durothil, Scallywag of Purity</p><p>70lvl Swashbuckler, Darathar (PvP?)</p>

Splintered
03-13-2007, 03:24 PM
<cite>Eldril wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Fear and run are your friends till en garde goes away....use your environment too..</p><p>General Delolith Durothil, Scallywag of Purity</p><p>70lvl Swashbuckler, Darathar (PvP?)</p></blockquote> fear would be resisted... at master one, it only has a 5% chance increase in helping it not get resisted, compared to the average 30-40%. Also, cure one snare and they'll just hit you with the next while still smacking you from a range!

Eldril
03-13-2007, 03:27 PM
<p>Our snares are melee/ranged hit based (non-spell)  which means that they have a more than 50% chance that they will get deflected by your avoidance....only one snare is non melee/ranged hit based much like your fear...and it is very prone to get resisted.</p><p>General Delolith Durothil, Scallywag of Purity</p><p>70lvl Swashbuckler, Darathar (PvP?)</p>

Jaggid
03-13-2007, 03:47 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><cite>Cocytus wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>lol</p><p>I love threads where people think skill in PVP means nothing.</p><p>I give this thread an official helmet of mental handicap.</p></blockquote> Well, no point in denying that since they gave the brig the smackdown with the nerf bat, the swashies, being pretty much as powerful before, took the alpha spot. The only classes that really stand any chance are the ones that can lockthe swashy down and stay out of range while those two things go down, since they are pretty much auto kill skills for any swashy, in need of little or no skill. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote>And god forbid if you run across two or more that are grouped. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Cocytus
03-13-2007, 07:24 PM
<cite>Mildavyn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cocytus wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>You've got it all wrong.</p><p>Skill > class > gear.</p><p>Skill > all. The only time class plays a role is when it is a class weakness. *GASP CLASS WEAKNESSES WHAT ARE THOSE?!!?!?!?!?* Class weaknesses are like swashbuckler vs monk. Swashbucklers are DESIGNED to kill monks.</p><p>If you're good enough, you can find ways to beat a swashbuckler with most classes. All you have to do is use your brain. But oh [I cannot control my vocabulary]! Nobody wants to use their brain! My 24 swashbuckler kills loads of people without AA (he has only 10), without en garde, without inspiration. Why? I use absolutely everything in my arsenal, AND EVEN THE ENVIRONMENT *gasp such a novel idea!* to my advantage. Any of you whiners ever try, say...I dunno, STUNNING as soon as you see the buffs up and running like hell until inspiration is down? Oh wait. There are so many people that think running is chicken [I cannot control my vocabulary].</p><p>Funny so many complain about running, then they complain about being killed for not using strategy.</p></blockquote><p>If you're talking about t5 or lower PvP, then Swashies aren't anywhere near overpowered. If you're talking about t7 PvP (which is what I am) then you've either never played a t7 swash, or you've never played any other t7 class and just think you're a skilled/good player. Or you're a [Removed for Content], but i wont accuse you of that... yet.</p><p>Class > Gear. Skill has almost nothing to do with PvP once you know what all those buttons do. Especially as a swashbuckler. Get the right AAs, put your buffs up and you win with auto-attack.</p><p>Inspiration (Master I) 214-356 damage proc on every successful melee attack (thats BASE, un-modified damage BTW, STR will increase it)</p><p>Engarde (Master I) 293-489 damage proc on every parrr/riposte/dodge/block/deflect by either yourself or your target. (again, unmodified)</p><p>Arctic Blast (Master I) 67% snare and two 247-411 damage ranged attacks.</p><p>Impair (Master I) 68% snare and 223-372 melee damage</p><p>Constrain (Master I) 69% snare</p><p>TOTAL SNARE %age with all 3 active: 204% - You aren't getting away... EVER</p><p>PvP belt: 100% chance to parry EVERY melee attack for 10 seconds (not sure if it affects attacks from behind)</p><p>Then we move on to just the few Swash AAs that i know of.</p><p>Reach: Increase range by 5, then DOUBLE it for melee (+5, then increase by 100%). That gives your melee a range of 20 meters.</p><p>Lunge Reversal: next parry/riposte/etc will proc for 315-525 damage at rank 4. At rank 8 it will do 409-682 damage.</p><p>Freehand Reversal(1 point only for 20% double attack)+Unencumberance (+6.5% per point): 20%+6.5% per point = 72% chance to double attack on all auto-attacks. (Second attack does not trigger most procs, but it DOES trigger Inspiration)</p><p>Avast Ye: Chance to proc for 500-834 damage when behind or flanking an opponent. At rank 4 it is an 8% proc chance, at rank 8, 16%</p><p>So to kill a swashy you will need atleast 1 friend, and more would be better. Oh but wait... Hurricane (Master I) 50% chance for all auto-attacks to become AEs... which by the way will also trigger ALL those procs from inspiration etc. So a swash is probably going to chew a nice hole in a full group as well if they get the drop.</p><p>To sum up, I'd just like to say... NERF SWASHBUCKLERS IN PVP.</p><p>EDIT: To answer the OPs question, I dont know of ANY way to dispell Engarde, other than waiting for it to run out.</p></blockquote><p>I have a 70 swashbuckler, bruiser, shadowknight, and soon I will have a 70 brigand. I have been beaten before, by classes who use strategy. Generally, to defeat them after that, I counter whatever strategy they use with one of my own. /shrug</p><p>You're forgetting that ALL SKILL DAMAGE IS TONED DOWN IN PVP. I needed to point that out. Not saying that it's by a lot, but you're ignoring it, and it's annoying.</p><p>1. Like I said. See inspiration up? [I cannot control my vocabulary] run. It's not that hard to figure out. But oh noes! Scouts can stealth! Get a see invis totem. Omgawd that's too much to figure out.</p><p>2. En garde isn't going to determine the outcome of a PVP fight unless it's against a high avoidance class, period.</p><p>3. So? Assassins and rangers get ranged attacks that hit for a living [I cannot control my vocabulary]. Rangers get a back shot that has a snare. Who cares? Also, both of those hits have to land for the snare to take effect.</p><p>4. So? Brigands and rangers get melee range roots. Brigands also get a groupwide snare.</p><p>5. All scouts get a form of this snare. Learn about EQ2. Scouts. Have. Lots. Of. Snares. And. General. Speed. Control. Stuff. Like. Roots. Etc. Stop [I cannot control my vocabulary]. Also, they can be cured. *GASP* Another strategy!? No way! Yeah.</p><p>6. Any swashbuckler who uses all three snares at once is an idiot.</p><p>7. Um. All scouts get this. God.</p><p>8. Reach: No, it does NOT increase your range to 20m. Auto attack range increases to 5m. Stun range and defense debuff range increased to 10m. Most damaging CA's go to 15. Non-damaging combat arts (taunt, snare) are increased to 20m. Ranged auto attack does not appear to increase. Ranged combat arts increase to about 35m.</p><p>9.  Brigands get this too. And it only triggers once every 20 seconds, once per offense and once per defense. BFD.</p><p>10. Double attack is basically like a proc. It has a 72% chance to do your auto attack a second time. NOTHING procs off of it. Nothing. Inspiration does not proc off of double attack either. Nor does En Garde, or any proc in the game. Get your facts straight before you start screaming nerf.</p><p>11. Avast ye is useless to swashbucklers in PVP. Not enough time is spent behind your target. It's of a much greater benefit to brigands, which is why my brigand is going down the AGI line. A lot more time spent behind the target.</p><p>To sum it up...You don't know nearly as much about swashbucklers as you think you do, therefore your opinion is very uneducated. Additionally, you are completely overlooking every single thing that makes any class "overpowered"</p><p>Wizard? Mana burn? Fusion? Ice nova? Not overpowered? Lol. ok.</p><p>Warlock? Rift? Apocolypse? Not overpowered? </p><p>Assassin? Assassinate? </p><p>Rangers do a load of damage, have chain mitigation, and don't have to be on top of you. Is that not overpowered?</p><p>Clerics can heal damage you do, and have plate mitigation, is that not overpowered? Basically what I'm saying is, every class has something that defines them. Every class has something that gives them an advantage. Learn how to play the [I cannot control my vocabulary] game before you go screaming and crying about nerfs to other classes.</p><p>oh...I'll make an exception. I think bards are pretty well the only class that can't do much without a group. But even then, I've seen one solo bard, I forget her name...she was an exile on Venekor. She was [I cannot control my vocabulary] good. Beat everything from a swashbuckler, to a bruiser, to a brigand, to an assassin....only thing I never saw her kill were healers and rangers.</p>

Agent2k
03-13-2007, 08:08 PM
<p>     I told you to give me a pm if you needed any help with PvP strats and tactics man.  You just asked a message board a question that is definately out of their league.  The real question that you needed to ask, which would yeild the very simple answer that your looking for is this:</p><p>      What resist type is the spell En garde?     Which I would reply... I don't know but I would guess it's Divine or magic based.  This is all you would need to know to find out which and what abilities dispel magic based (or whatever it is) beneficial buffs from your target.</p><p>      Instead you got a bunch of paragraph long replies from people who really have no idea what is going on.  I mean for instance you have poster, Darlion, who claims en garde isn't even dispellable! This guy is far from the truth, disregard his posts.  Next, you got Harbringer who claims en garde can't even be beat, make for the exit he says!  Boy, if you only knew how much plat i've made off of poor swashies on my server who thought this was true... disregard this guys posts as well.  For Cocytus who claims swashies were MADE to beat monks!!  Wow believe this guy, then read above and know that the class I play IS a monk...   next time just send me a PM and I will happily help you out.  </p><p>      I want to point out Dakis actually understands that his class is not unbeatable with or without his timers up which is much closer to the truth than many of the trolls here may have led you to believe.  N3xus0n3, this poster is actually got the strat nearly laid out for you there but he is lacking what seems, the experience in the  area to be as certain on the subject as I am.  </p><p>      At the end of all this, if someone here could please answer the man this one simple question, would be very helpful.  I don't even know the answer to this...  </p><p>       <u><i><b><span style="font-size: medium"> What resist type is the spell, En Garde?</span> </b></i></u></p><p>       The correct answer is one single word, which will be either .... Cold, Fire, Poison, Disease, Magic, Mental, or Divine</p>

Mildavyn
03-14-2007, 12:19 AM
<cite>Cocytus wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I have a 70 swashbuckler, bruiser, shadowknight, and soon I will have a 70 brigand. I have been beaten before, by classes who use strategy. Generally, to defeat them after that, I counter whatever strategy they use with one of my own. /shrug</p><p>You're forgetting that ALL SKILL DAMAGE IS TONED DOWN IN PVP. I needed to point that out. Not saying that it's by a lot, but you're ignoring it, and it's annoying.</p><p>1. Like I said. See inspiration up? [I cannot control my vocabulary] run. It's not that hard to figure out. But oh noes! Scouts can stealth! Get a see invis totem. Omgawd that's too much to figure out.</p><p>2. En garde isn't going to determine the outcome of a PVP fight unless it's against a high avoidance class, period.</p><p>3. So? Assassins and rangers get ranged attacks that hit for a living [I cannot control my vocabulary]. Rangers get a back shot that has a snare. Who cares? Also, both of those hits have to land for the snare to take effect.</p><p>4. So? Brigands and rangers get melee range roots. Brigands also get a groupwide snare.</p><p>5. All scouts get a form of this snare. Learn about EQ2. Scouts. Have. Lots. Of. Snares. And. General. Speed. Control. Stuff. Like. Roots. Etc. Stop [I cannot control my vocabulary]. Also, they can be cured. *GASP* Another strategy!? No way! Yeah.</p><p>6. Any swashbuckler who uses all three snares at once is an idiot.</p><p>7. Um. All scouts get this. God.</p><p>8. Reach: No, it does NOT increase your range to 20m. Auto attack range increases to 5m. Stun range and defense debuff range increased to 10m. Most damaging CA's go to 15. Non-damaging combat arts (taunt, snare) are increased to 20m. Ranged auto attack does not appear to increase. Ranged combat arts increase to about 35m.</p><p>9.  Brigands get this too. And it only triggers once every 20 seconds, once per offense and once per defense. BFD.</p><p>10. Double attack is basically like a proc. It has a 72% chance to do your auto attack a second time. NOTHING procs off of it. Nothing. Inspiration does not proc off of double attack either. Nor does En Garde, or any proc in the game. Get your facts straight before you start screaming nerf.</p><p>11. Avast ye is useless to swashbucklers in PVP. Not enough time is spent behind your target. It's of a much greater benefit to brigands, which is why my brigand is going down the AGI line. A lot more time spent behind the target.</p><p>To sum it up...You don't know nearly as much about swashbucklers as you think you do, therefore your opinion is very uneducated. Additionally, you are completely overlooking every single thing that makes any class "overpowered"</p><p>Wizard? Mana burn? Fusion? Ice nova? Not overpowered? Lol. ok.</p><p>Warlock? Rift? Apocolypse? Not overpowered? </p><p>Assassin? Assassinate? </p><p>Rangers do a load of damage, have chain mitigation, and don't have to be on top of you. Is that not overpowered?</p><p>Clerics can heal damage you do, and have plate mitigation, is that not overpowered? Basically what I'm saying is, every class has something that defines them. Every class has something that gives them an advantage. Learn how to play the [I cannot control my vocabulary] game before you go screaming and crying about nerfs to other classes.</p><p>oh...I'll make an exception. I think bards are pretty well the only class that can't do much without a group. But even then, I've seen one solo bard, I forget her name...she was an exile on Venekor. She was [I cannot control my vocabulary] good. Beat everything from a swashbuckler, to a bruiser, to a brigand, to an assassin....only thing I never saw her kill were healers and rangers.</p></blockquote><p>Yes, I did forget taht all skill damage is toned down in PvP. Ignore those numbers, they're for PvE only. Yes, I can beat swashies, and I have killed a few, but its very rare, I also ALWAYS have both butterfly and owl totems up when im outside a city zone, I've been playing my Troubador on Venekor since the day it went live, so I know more about playing them in PvP than most.</p><p>1. OMG any scout who doesn't use totems all the time is stupid!! Also its very hard to run when you're snared, then knocked down, then stunned, and all the time, even while you're at range trying to get away or kite, the swashy is hitting you with melee attacks.</p><p>2. Engarde is not going to determine the outcome of a PvP fight unless either party uses the belt, or you're both meleeing, since Engarde procs when ANYONE parrys/ripostes/ect the swash pops his belt and anyone hitting him takes a crap-load of damage, or runs away and gets melee'd down from range anyway.</p><p>3. Yes they do, and yes they do. But we're not talking about rangers or assasins here, we're talking about Swashbucklers. Also, who cares if you miss with the ranged snare, you have atleast 2 others, plus any you get from items.</p><p>4. See #3</p><p>5. Yes they can be cured... once. then i can't cure the next one, and im dead. Thank you, come back when you've thought this through or actually played a class that REQUIRES you to stay away from melee classes.</p><p>6. That may be true, I wasn't aware that they didn't all stack, however they all have a chance to break, if you've got 3 snares on someone they ALL have to break before your target can start running again. Also i know for a fact that Brigand snares DO stack, because Ive been on the receiving end of them alot. I just assumed that swashies stacked as well.</p><p>7. The PvP belt? Yes thats true. I don't have one atm due to recent betrayal and no faction... but even if i did, using it against a swashbuckler is suicide, this point of yours gets the gold star of stupid.</p><p>8. Are you sure it doesn't, cos i was taking melee hits from a swash and about half of my spells were greyed out. I've heard ALOT of people tell me alot of different ranges... I might have to check this one myself.</p><p>9. Not talking about brigs here... and 2 triggers for how much damage? Beleive me, it adds to the damage, and who can really afford to lose 800 HP? That a fairly large chunk of most ppl's HP</p><p>10. The Achievement FAQ on the Official Swashbuckler forums tells me that Inspiration DOES proc off the double attack, if it doesn't then your FAQ is out-dated and needs to be corrected. Even if it doesn't, its still proccing off ever main attack, which is enough.</p><p>11. Fair point. Probably shouldn't have added this, but its another proc, and while I'm trying to kite, or run away to avoid your timers, you ARE behind me, and you ARE hitting me at raneg with your melee.</p><p>To sum it up, you have no idea how much i DO know about Swashbucklers, fair enough there are some things i dont know. I dont play one after all. </p><p>Wizard: 5 second cast time? Cannot manaburn to open a fight? is about as durable as a wet paper-bag?</p><p>Warlock: Even longer cast times than a wizard? Same fragility, just as easy to interupt? No manaburn?</p><p>Ranger: nice damage, but get em into melee range and half their skills and alot of their damage is useless, Swashies dont have that problem, they can lay the smack down from any range.</p><p>Cleric: Can heal true, but they do crap damage if specced for healing, and i drain power. If specced for damage, its mostly melee and they're available to be kited because they dont do insane ranged melee damage like swashies.</p><p>I would suggest that I'm not the only one who should learn to play the game mate. I've been here a long time, I know what I'm talking about generally. Tell you what, I'll give you a Troubador with full fabled and masters. Then I'll take a swash in mastercrafted and adept IIIs. I garuantee that i will kill you in a 1v1. Every single time.</p>

Norrsken
03-14-2007, 03:55 AM
Im pretty sure the snares DO stack, but that there is a cap on how much you can be snared. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Mildavyn
03-14-2007, 05:18 AM
<p>My experience would suggest that this is true. I know that the snares themselves DO stack, but to what %, or even if there is a cap, i dont know.</p><p>Also, i tried, the stones do not dispell engarde or inspiration.</p>

Eldril
03-14-2007, 07:25 AM
<p>Mildavyn I will play you any time you want with a fully fabled bard with M1 spells and you will have a very good equipped swashbuckler with Adept3-master1 spells fabled too but lower than 4k mental resists....if you beat me 2 times out of 10 fights I will seriously give you 10pp</p><p>General Delolith Durothil, Scallywag of Purity</p><p>70lvl Swashbuckler, Darathar (PvP?)</p><p>P.S no pots allowed in the fight</p>

DankShasta
03-14-2007, 06:59 PM
<p>wow!Lot's of good stuff in this thread! I guess though, at the end of the day, there is no good swashy strategy?  <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>BTW-- i have roughly 7000 bard kills, so while I'm no PvP god, I'm by no means a noob, I just wondered if maybe there are some things people are doing to <i>just slow them down alittle?</i> I don'tthink every class should be the same, it's just that for every Swashy who knows there stuff like I am sure Delolith does, there is an idiot who can hit three things and waste alot of us, even very good players in seconds. I think if you saw it from our point of view, where even noobs can own almost every class with a swashy, you seem like the kind of player who would get where we are coming from.  You sound like a very knowledgable player, who thinks what we are saying is that all swashies are noobs, or dont have skill. What I am saying is you sound like you'd be good on anyclass, but anybody is good on your class. That sounds better huh?</p><p>Dankshasta/Technics</p>

Wytie
03-14-2007, 07:14 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>wow!Lot's of good stuff in this thread! I guess though, at the end of the day, there is no good swashy strategy?  <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>BTW-- i have roughly 7000 bard kills, so while I'm no PvP god, I'm by no means a noob, I just wondered if maybe there are some things people are doing to <i>just slow them down alittle?</i> I don'tthink every class should be the same, it's just that for every Swashy who knows there stuff like I am sure Delolith does, there is an idiot who can hit three things and waste alot of us, even very good players in seconds. I think if you saw it from our point of view, where even noobs can own almost every class with a swashy, you seem like the kind of player who would get where we are coming from.  You sound like a very knowledgable player, who thinks what we are saying is that all swashies are noobs, or dont have skill. What I am saying is you sound like you'd be good on anyclass, but anybody is good on your class. That sounds better huh?</p><p>Dankshasta/Technics</p></blockquote><p>very good point of view, & some would say the same about Brigs </p><p>see the thing is when i play my brig i personally feel that i can basicly beat ANYONE 1 vs 1 and im sure most folks who play Swashys feel the same, now on no other toons i have, do i feel this way...   Why is that?  because these classes are built for pvp, why is that who knows maybe the the dev a the time of creation loved that class more than the rest or what? </p><p>All i know is if you go against either a Brig or a Swash you better not be alone or blue or green, and if there grouped your just skit outa luck<b><span style="font-size: x-large">. </span></b></p>

DynamicPerforman
03-14-2007, 07:19 PM
Heres a strategy for brawlers. If you see a swashy, go into offensive stance. Reduces both your chance to avoid and theirs.  Also, things like the eagle claw (roots for 2.4sec) and daze stop a swashy pretty well. Not so certain about bruisers, but this works for my monk. 

Eldril
03-14-2007, 09:40 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>wow!Lot's of good stuff in this thread! I guess though, at the end of the day, there is no good swashy strategy?  <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>BTW-- i have roughly 7000 bard kills, so while I'm no PvP god, I'm by no means a noob, I just wondered if maybe there are some things people are doing to <i>just slow them down alittle?</i> I don'tthink every class should be the same, it's just that for every Swashy who knows there stuff like I am sure Delolith does, there is an idiot who can hit three things and waste alot of us, even very good players in seconds. I think if you saw it from our point of view, where even noobs can own almost every class with a swashy, you seem like the kind of player who would get where we are coming from.  You sound like a very knowledgable player, who thinks what we are saying is that all swashies are noobs, or dont have skill. What I am saying is you sound like you'd be good on anyclass, but anybody is good on your class. That sounds better huh?</p><p>Dankshasta/Technics</p></blockquote><p> By all means...I totally agree with you that a mediocre player with these 3 buttons he can show at least average....So imagine what a skilled player does when he uses those....however it comes down to when we have to deal with particular classes when they go all out played by skilled players we need to go all out to have a fair chance....and that does not mean to whipe the floor clean with them. Imo there are about 3-4 classes atm that pass from my mind that are in the top...I am sure a lot of classes could use a lot of love especially some plate tanks (except SK) and probably bards (and a bit the resist system again). Sometimes, the difference between win a loose is way smaller than the percentage of your health remaining especially in short fights (not kiting fights that is). For example a fight with a brigand if I do one single mistake I am dead...with en garde/inspiration ...and I loose by a big margine of health. However, if I perform perfectly my strat then I win by a good margine. So as I said...the difference is way smaller than what it seems.</p><p>General Delolith Durothil, Scallywag of Purity</p><p>70lvl Swashbuckler, Darathar (PvP?)</p><p>P.S btw the brigand is an example...and I don't mean just any brigand I mean a well equipped one with a good chunk of fabled items and played by a very skilled player</p>