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View Full Version : When will our hopes turn up?!(must Read)


BlueBlood22
03-08-2007, 04:38 PM
<p>Ok, Before you read:</p><p> 1. This is kinda long</p><p> 2. This is not directly to the devs, maybe to catch their slight attention(at least i would hope) but, i have to speak up, someone has to, i just have to, this is getting out of hands<img src="/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />, and before you question (WELL WHAT THE <a href="mailto:HE*[email protected]#$L" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">HE*[email protected]#$L</a> IS IT!?:shock<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />, before you blow me off, THIS IS NOT A COMPLAINT but its logic<img src="/smilies/8f7fb9dd46fb8ef86f81154a4feaada9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />, ITS COMMON SENSE PEOPLE.</p><p> 3. It concerns PVP to start off and it has to do with Classes in PVP, that in hand, i just have to mention little something: I, myself and me, are part of a raid guild which i will not mention nor get into about that subject for only one aspect has to do with this *situation*, and that is our Guild is (i wouldn't say serious but still)in LACK* of Coercers, Dirges and Troubs (As you would say KEY* Classes for a good raid to work *Not principle BUT KEY*), NOW THOSE CLASSES are not the main reason why i say this, but to expect someone to join a PVP server , deal with leveling till 70 to only be functional in RAIDS?! <img src="/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Not such good upgrade..., NoW YOU would say "Well why don't you Make a pvp based CLASS, are you not happy with your clasS!?" YES IM HAPPY WITH MY CLASS BUT dissapointed, NOt in myself as a player, but yes my CLASS itself! </p><p>WELL There's the exact problem many people including the devs don't seem to see it. To make certain classes which wont be even challengeable in PVP doesn't bring the cake, now you would ask "why is that?" Well I have 70 dirge, Now im not joining a side and spitting against the other wall to let other classes down but Dirge PLayers u kno this, and some of you probably agree with what im saying, but SOMETHINGS got to change, NOW let me give u an example, and THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TIME THIS HAS HAPPENED<img src="/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />, I'm a relic geared Dirge due to my raiding, not to brag but my gear is not the worse nor are my combat arts and spells for they are master or adept3, i was roaming through Tenebrous Tangle the other day, heading twoards a raid minding my own biz, And on my way i Spot a 64 Swashbuckler, yes a "swashbuckler", He was A Slayer, and i Destroyer (NOw tittles have nothing to do with this for i don't even strive to gain Tittle accomplishment, i myselft find it useless, personally imo)with that being said, i enter shroud mode, and head into battle, as i strike my first hit (Shrieking Stab Master 1) i do 763 Damage, 2 Seconds into battle i get knocked back, and Backstabs and 7 seconds later im dead, NOW how do you expect me to experiece that and have fun with a class that i started and CHOSE for i found it interesting and probably something i would IDENTIFY TO during my EQ playtime. As i was lying there Dead, the first thing came to my mind, Imagine if that Swashy, the same one that killed me, was fully mastered Adept3s, maybe some Fabled gear, and at 70? what chance do i have against him? NOT EVEN A CHALLENGE, NOW, as i said, IM not blowing off classes , Swashies were made do Deal with great damage, BUT COME ON PEOPLE, I just want a CHALLENGE to at least last 1 minute(Sense of speaking) in battle with the "guy"<img src="/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />, if that can't happen with the gear i have attuned on myself against a Legendary maybe even Treasure gear Swashy, THen what is my function on a pvp Server? NONE, regarding pvp that is the answer is none, Now making another class is not the issue, i just want to be able to Challenge myself and my skills up to the task, See where my limits and potentials will go (PVP SKILL WISE) if i use a certain combo or do this or that or fight in certain stance maybe ranged or close, etc you get my point, i would say more Combat ability maybe?. BUT no <img src="/smilies/2e207fad049d4d292f60607f80f05768.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> my only Challenge is 7 seconds in battle to hand them a free token so their one step closer to becoming Undefeated. I will say this again for i started this topic for this exact reason, i'm not asking for an upgrade in dirge, troub, SPells and what not, what ever class suffers from PVP action, im only asking for A challenge. If Guilds, Servers suffer the lack of those key classes they kno exactly what im speaking of, if a class I CHOOSE to play CHOOSE to have fun with for the next 70 levels can't be enjoyable PVP wise in a PVP* server what point is there to start in the first place.</p><p>And please if your going to reply please be honest and give suggestions, add something positive to the post, because i know i don't stand alone when i say this, don't bother posting if your just gonna brag about yourself and deny the situation. Thank you for reading <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I hope this can be of future help.</p>

Léon
03-08-2007, 05:36 PM
<p>i appreciate that you've taken a considerable amount of time to write all this up, but you are a scout, yes maybe not an easymode scout, but still...one of the first masters in the game was a dirge.</p><p>you have stealth, evac, track (you pick your fights pretty much)...there are more than enough opportunites that dirges have to be excellent at pvp. </p>

Bozidar
03-08-2007, 05:43 PM
<p>every class can't beat every other class</p><p>every guy conn'd orange to another guy isn't going to beat that guy.</p><p>every GOOD player who's WELL geared isn't going to win fights 1v1 against lower level opponents.</p><p>I will end this list of obvious statements by saying: every group class that complains about not being able to solo makes me laugh all the harder, especially those with great raid utility.</p>

Killque
03-08-2007, 06:17 PM
<p>I have to say, being a Dirge myself, there are some classes we will just not be able to beat consistantly, if ever.</p><p>For instance: Monks are pretty much a guarnteed kill for me. I really dont even have to try hard to kill a Monk even 3-4 levels higher than me. I have killed monks well above 10 levels above me, and all completely solo. I guess Dirge are just the "Monk" Killers lol </p><p>I have the hardest time with Swashies and Healers. Healers have become more and more killable but they still need to be a blue or lower con for me to even consider them. Swashies/Brigs just get waaaay to many stuns and slows to make fighting them winable, plus with their ability to lenghen your cast times etc... its very tough. Now they suck HUGE at ranged, so if a caster can get and keep one at distance and let their pet beat them down or they themselves nuke them, they are pretty easy.</p><p>That said, I think pretty much every hit they get is either a stun or an interupt, seems like it anyway =P</p>

chrystolr
03-08-2007, 06:29 PM
Spend more time pvping then raiding. Dirges are plenty strong, having low disease resist dirges can tear my ranger asunder...along with most FP classes who deal disease damage. What should change is the level difference where in the beginning someone high level wouldn't be hurt nearly as badly as being in the level range. Now thats not the case which means lower levels can easily dominate higher levels. A group of 45's killed me at 70 because they swarmed me. I had over 55% in cold resist yet I was still getting hit for close to 200 from a fury cold dot and being nuked for over 1000 damage for divine damage with high 40% resist. Is it the resist that are at fault? Possible but low levels should not be able to hurt someone 25 levels above them so quickly and badly. Level > gear. Someone with more experience should always best someone who is equiped well. It was the worst change in pvp and still affects the game greatly...even more now with level lockers.

Memmoch
03-08-2007, 06:39 PM
Swashy's are the brigands of pre-EOF.  Range them if you must fight them lol.

Jonhteman
03-08-2007, 06:41 PM
<p>I understand your point on your dirge being level 70 fabled out going againts a 64 swashbuckler, you should have won hands down in my opinion.</p><p>Now let me tell you what happened to my <span style="font-size: large">level 50 bruiser</span>.  I was in the commonlands gathering and run into a group of<span style="font-size: large"> 6 q's </span>the<span style="font-size: large"> highest level being 26</span> in the group they all conned grey to me.  Well they decide they want to attack me and the fight was on for maybe 15 sec's I was kicking their butts then all of a sudden my health was in the red I used my one heal and 2 secs after I get it off I'm dead.  I'm thinking there must have been another q close by hitting me that was close to my level.  So I revive and go back to gathering and low and behold I run into them again.  I look their group over no one over level 26 I looked around in all directions no q's close to this group then they attack again killing me faster than before, I'm thinking this is f-ed up I have all legendary gear master 1 through adept 1 spells and this group of level 26 q's were even able to damage me let alone kill me surpised me.</p><p>There has been so many people leave the pvp server, there is hardly any spells and armor on the board for sale, (lack of players).</p><p>I know my opinion probably needs nothing right now to sony but if enough people cancell their subscriptions then some changes will be made to help the game. </p><p><b><a href="http://www.createblog.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t20859.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow"></a></b></p>

xXBubblez
03-08-2007, 06:54 PM
<p><span style="color: #66ffff">the classes you mentioned lacking in pvp (coercer, drige, troub) have the potential to be good and hold their own, its just a lot harder and takes more skill.  There will also be at least 1 class that just completly destroys you without trying... Swash is one of these classes -- I hear what your saying and i understand to an extent, but its just gonna be harder for some classes than others. </span></p><p><span style="color: #66ffff">Now if you were exile, you could duel your guildys and eventually maybe figure out different ways to counter different classes</span></p>

Bluetygur
03-08-2007, 07:45 PM
<p><span style="font-size: x-small; font-family: verdana,geneva">I totally agree with the original poster.  The Bard class is just gimped in pvp ... no other way to say it.  I suppose there will be bards that come on to post how they consistently take down even-con or above ... well bravo to you.  But for the vast majority of us mere mortals, playing a bard in pvp is silly.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: x-small">I do have fun in raids, and in groups.  But when I am out alone (questing, harvesting, etc) I don't even consider fighting any more.  Too depressing.  Really, it's just a question of whether I can get away or not <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Way too many folks out there have ways to kill me in less than 5 seconds.  My gear is quite good, btw.  When I try to fight, the result is not even close.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: x-small">So, in those situations, if they kill me, they win.  If I can get away, I consider that a win.  Sad but true.</span></p>

Killque
03-08-2007, 08:11 PM
<cite>Bluetygur wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><span style="font-size: x-small; font-family: verdana,geneva">I totally agree with the original poster.  The Bard class is just gimped in pvp ... no other way to say it.  I suppose there will be bards that come on to post how they consistently take down even-con or above ... well bravo to you.  But for the vast majority of us mere mortals, playing a bard in pvp is silly.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: x-small">I do have fun in raids, and in groups.  But when I am out alone (questing, harvesting, etc) I don't even consider fighting any more.  Too depressing.  Really, it's just a question of whether I can get away or not <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Way too many folks out there have ways to kill me in less than 5 seconds.  My gear is quite good, btw.  When I try to fight, the result is not even close.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: x-small">So, in those situations, if they kill me, they win.  If I can get away, I consider that a win.  Sad but true.</span></p></blockquote>You really need to harness your class better my friend. Do a little digging and youll find a Gem under that dusty Dirge.

BlueBlood22
03-08-2007, 09:59 PM
<cite>Killque wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bluetygur wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><span style="font-size: x-small; font-family: verdana,geneva">I totally agree with the original poster.  The Bard class is just gimped in pvp ... no other way to say it.  I suppose there will be bards that come on to post how they consistently take down even-con or above ... well bravo to you.  But for the vast majority of us mere mortals, playing a bard in pvp is silly.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: x-small">I do have fun in raids, and in groups.  But when I am out alone (questing, harvesting, etc) I don't even consider fighting any more.  Too depressing.  Really, it's just a question of whether I can get away or not <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Way too many folks out there have ways to kill me in less than 5 seconds.  My gear is quite good, btw.  When I try to fight, the result is not even close.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: x-small">So, in those situations, if they kill me, they win.  If I can get away, I consider that a win.  Sad but true.</span></p></blockquote>You really need to harness your class better my friend. Do a little digging and youll find a Gem under that dusty Dirge. </blockquote>Bro im sorry but when ur at T7 you can come and talk to me about dirges, i was lvl 45 Twink dirge as well and its a totally different story, try taking down t7 twinks <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> hm-k thx.

BlueBlood22
03-08-2007, 10:04 PM
<cite>Bluetygur wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><span style="font-size: x-small; font-family: verdana,geneva">I totally agree with the original poster.  The Bard class is just gimped in pvp ... no other way to say it.  I suppose there will be bards that come on to post how they consistently take down even-con or above ... well bravo to you.  But for the vast majority of us mere mortals, playing a bard in pvp is silly.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: x-small">I do have fun in raids, and in groups.  But when I am out alone (questing, harvesting, etc) I don't even consider fighting any more.  Too depressing.  Really, it's just a question of whether I can get away or not <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Way too many folks out there have ways to kill me in less than 5 seconds.  My gear is quite good, btw.  When I try to fight, the result is not even close.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: x-small">So, in those situations, if they kill me, they win.  If I can get away, I consider that a win.  Sad but true.</span></p></blockquote>Sad but this is very truth, thats what happens most of the cases, Just because we have track, evac and what not doesnt mean Were good or were better in pvp, and im not talking about having advantages im talking about being a challenge in pvp, if i could get knocked down so fast by a lowb Swashi that fast what matter or challenge purpose do bards have in pvp, and u bards saying exact what he mentioned on last post, bout owning this and that, ur full of sh*t to be honest, i played a dirge more months now and the only case i owned 2 qs/exiles was when they were two mages and one of them seemed to be afk. and you may say "oh well then your a noob!" negative, if theres a class, diminishing to bards i will definitly own them, Wizzards is one of them, nothing against you guys but if i 1vs1 a wizzard i never lost, =), and by all you twink dirges at low lvls, T7 is totally different my friiend, been there done that. k thx <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> nice reply btw Bluetygyr

Valdar
03-08-2007, 10:07 PM
<cite>BlueBlood22 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>THIS IS NOT A COMPLAINT</p></blockquote>Ah, and I thought this was another post from someone crying that they can't kill class X.... If you pick a class whose biggest strength it is to BUFF OTHERS then don't expect to be the top dog solo. Otherwise what would be the point of the classes that don't have buffs like yours? You can't have the dps AND the buffs.

BlueBlood22
03-08-2007, 10:23 PM
and i would just like to add that some people are missing the point of the whole thread, i Dont want Dirges, Troubs, whatever classes to Have advantages over the primary dominating classes in pvp now (sadly but true, they do exist), i just want to be challengable to these classes, and not just one more they ran over or one shotted. My worry is not tittles, tokens, etc. I just want to have challenged pvp, i want to be able to say wow i owned him on a 1vs1 because i had more SKILL then that certain person , not because i overpowered him on gear and such, but for the fact that i used my skills certain way, maybe i debuffed him instead of trying to take him down as fast as possible etc, examples like these, and one person mentioned on debuffs and really liked ur reply and that is one important actually very important thing they should work on in pvp , due to raids my gear has very high resists and such, and they dont seem to mean a rats [Removed for Content] during pvp, and to me thats bunch of bs, why am i not able to resist an ice nova, or a fusion while i have either COld or Heat resists high enough that raid mob wouldnt hit me as hard? dont you think its a little weird? well again guys im not complaining im just trying to make logic post and make people aware of it, and sadly people ARE aware of it and dont seem to mind, which is odd, maybe i just like bards too much and should move on to a primary pvp class, which is sad cuz i find it cowardly moving to a dominating class and say i owned such and such being that i have advantage over him? not my type of eq, hmmm well thats that.

BlueBlood22
03-08-2007, 10:26 PM
<cite>Valdar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>BlueBlood22 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>THIS IS NOT A COMPLAINT</p></blockquote>Ah, and I thought this was another post from someone crying that they can't kill class X.... If you pick a class whose biggest strength it is to BUFF OTHERS then don't expect to be the top dog solo. Otherwise what would be the point of the classes that don't have buffs like yours? You can't have the dps AND the buffs. </blockquote> hahaah thats exactly what i mean, if your not aware, devs have been trying months on ways to balance out pvp to eliminate the TOP dogs, and sadly responses like urs make people not want to make key classes for raiding due to their lack of pvp ability. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

knorah
03-09-2007, 01:31 AM
<cite>Bluetygur wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><span style="font-size: x-small; font-family: verdana,geneva">I totally agree with the original poster.  The Bard class is just gimped in pvp ... no other way to say it.  I suppose there will be bards that come on to post how they consistently take down even-con or above ... well bravo to you.  But for the vast majority of us mere mortals, playing a bard in pvp is silly.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: x-small">I do have fun in raids, and in groups.  But when I am out alone (questing, harvesting, etc) I don't even consider fighting any more.  Too depressing.  Really, it's just a question of whether I can get away or not <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Way too many folks out there have ways to kill me in less than 5 seconds.  My gear is quite good, btw.  When I try to fight, the result is not even close.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: x-small">So, in those situations, if they kill me, they win.  If I can get away, I consider that a win.  Sad but true.</span></p></blockquote>/hangs head down and raises hand. me too. I'm the same way. sad, i know..but true. ditto bluetygur back in T5-T6 I would attack everything left and right b/c at least I knew I had a chance to win...but, as a T7 bard (after many beatings to the point of my blood oozing massive discouragement), when I'm out solo...I'm a runner.<img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Norrsken
03-09-2007, 07:40 AM
<cite>xXBubblezXx wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><span style="color: #66ffff">the classes you mentioned lacking in pvp (coercer, drige, troub) have the potential to be good and hold their own, its just a lot harder and takes more skill.  There will also be at least 1 class that just completly destroys you without trying... Swash is one of these classes -- I hear what your saying and i understand to an extent, but its just gonna be harder for some classes than others. </span></p><p><span style="color: #66ffff">Now if you were exile, you could duel your guildys and eventually maybe figure out different ways to counter different classes</span></p></blockquote>Oh so incredibly true. I have a coercer, and being a crazy [Removed for Content] mofo, I tend to never run, so I get into quite a few "unfair fights" with orange cons. The fun part is the orange cons blowing themselves up in 5-10 seconds with all my nasty stuff on them. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I can honestly say, there is no other class I have played that at 34 can easily kill orange furies. My coercer can. Otoh, when things go wrong, I die in 5 seconds instead. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

sirfrenchalot
03-09-2007, 07:47 AM
<p>Here is my two cent worth of input....</p><p>I am not sure about dirges, but I know for a fact Troubadour eventhough not well considered during pvp can be a real pain to get for casters...</p><p>The thing is both those classes have great buffs and debuffs. Being well equipped (fabled and legandaries or mastercrafted) and having all my spells at least adept 3s and I have about 7 master 1 including heals and nukes, I didn't expect troubadoors to be too hard to bit... but boy was I wrong.... I fought a troubadoor a few times and died every single time. I am probably not a good pvper, but still I didn't expect him to resist 75% of my spells... as a matter of fact, it was very clear that he didn't try blasting me straight away, but debuffed me first and then used stronger attacks.</p><p>I assume dirges can do that too and probably have buffs to protect themselves that will stop casters from being able to kill them. The best advantage of scout classes is that they can get the jump on others. meaning you guys usually start the fights... </p><p>However, to me, brigands are quite over powered against most classes but in the  end, it isn't really the class that determines your pvp skills but much more your equipment and tactics. I know healers that have their chances against brigands...</p>

achilles04
03-09-2007, 10:00 AM
<p>I started life as an alt troub. Right the way upto 55 i was practically handing peoples arses to them. My guild needed a dirge bad for raiding so i betrayed and came back as dirge. </p><p>My first fight as a dirge was against a zerker in SS, he was mining away more than happily so in a come and start casting debuffs from range. This was a few GU's back and they all landed. I managed to get every debuff i had (mostly master) on him and then he realised what was happening. He turned round and beat the living crap outta me. </p><p>First thing i was thinking was, right gotta take a whole new approach to pvping with a dirge over troub. I browsed the dirge forums and made a few posts requesting advice and tips. </p><p>Im now 70. I have what most on my server call very good gear. Ive got predominantly nightchord, im using the Wurmslayer and beer stained buckler (resists) and i am 95% master spells. If i attack anyone, anyone at all, i ALWAYS use kite as my fighting method. I have found generally you cant stand toe to toe with anyone in T7 unless they are a caster. So first things first, use raincaller bow and fire the root. Keeping the ranged auto attack on you may get the proc and a further root. </p><p> What follows is the painfull part.....debuffs..... i have made on one instance 17 casts of my biggest main debuffs, all being resisted. With eof AA line in cast speed it wasnt hard to get upto 17 casts total. Not one of them landed. I realise im in big trouble so start to kite. Cut a long story short, they only thing that saved me was the ranged auto attack. I have both wurm destroyer and rain caller and their auto attack is almost the same as my hardest nuke.</p><p>Basically ive resigned to the fact that even average gear, most players in T7 will resist most if not all my debuffs, which leaves me with very little in the way of an armoury to attack with. The dirge for me in T7 is nothing more than a utility in raids that everyone wants a piece of, and same too in pvp, just dont expect to do much yourself unless you are fighting a total noob or someone who is wearing NPC bought no stat armour.</p><p>Now troub on the other hand, well, as long as u have the skill to play it, you should kick [Removed for Content] through out all tiers. Ive stood and fought an exile troub who is a friend over and over and over. We were on comms and i tried every possible method to fight him. I tried toe to toe, i tried kite, i tried fear + root..........nothing worked. At most i got him to 40% health, and his gear is nowhere near the calibre of my own but with a practically perma stifle mezz, i couldnt do a [Removed for Content] thing. Dirge is for support, ideally get a monk or swashy or tank to duo with, he has your buffs, and when u find more than 1 enemy, use fear and keep 1 out the fight til your partner has dropped the other <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Gear makes all the difference based only on wisdom and resist pools. Its fine having realy high int for those solid hard nukes but whats the point if u cant ever land em. </p><p>To close and end my rant, i agree with the OP that Dirge are by far crap in pvp. Not many would want to play one in T7 thats for sure. Having said that, its down to your play style, i would quite happily respec all my AA's to more a pvp orientation but then my guild suffers for the buff drop in raids. Lesser of 2 evils. My Dirge is pve alt  - i suggest to keep your main pvp toon as something useful solo.</p>

Oneira
03-09-2007, 12:08 PM
Maybe it's just me, but I've seen quite an increase in the number of coercers out there, at least on Venekor.  Granted they aren't lev 70, but some of them could be hitting t4 and t5 soon.  I see more low lev coercers around now than wizzies or warlocks actually.

xXBubblez
03-09-2007, 12:37 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><cite>xXBubblezXx wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><span style="color: #66ffff">the classes you mentioned lacking in pvp (coercer, drige, troub) have the potential to be good and hold their own, its just a lot harder and takes more skill.  There will also be at least 1 class that just completly destroys you without trying... Swash is one of these classes -- I hear what your saying and i understand to an extent, but its just gonna be harder for some classes than others. </span></p><p><span style="color: #66ffff">Now if you were exile, you could duel your guildys and eventually maybe figure out different ways to counter different classes</span></p></blockquote>Oh so incredibly true. I have a coercer, and being a crazy [I cannot control my vocabulary] mofo, I tend to never run, so I get into quite a few "unfair fights" with orange cons. The fun part is the orange cons blowing themselves up in 5-10 seconds with all my nasty stuff on them. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I can honestly say, there is no other class I have played that at 34 can easily kill orange furies. My coercer can. Otoh, when things go wrong, I die in 5 seconds instead. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote><span style="color: #66ffff">if someone doesn't know how to fight a coercer... the coercer will win.  A lot of the low lvl coercers winning all the time is due to others not knowing a whole lot about what a coercer does... part of why i like the class so much myself</span>

Norrsken
03-09-2007, 12:45 PM
<cite>xXBubblezXx wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><cite>xXBubblezXx wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><span style="color: #66ffff">the classes you mentioned lacking in pvp (coercer, drige, troub) have the potential to be good and hold their own, its just a lot harder and takes more skill.  There will also be at least 1 class that just completly destroys you without trying... Swash is one of these classes -- I hear what your saying and i understand to an extent, but its just gonna be harder for some classes than others. </span></p><p><span style="color: #66ffff">Now if you were exile, you could duel your guildys and eventually maybe figure out different ways to counter different classes</span></p></blockquote>Oh so incredibly true. I have a coercer, and being a crazy [I cannot control my vocabulary] mofo, I tend to never run, so I get into quite a few "unfair fights" with orange cons. The fun part is the orange cons blowing themselves up in 5-10 seconds with all my nasty stuff on them. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I can honestly say, there is no other class I have played that at 34 can easily kill orange furies. My coercer can. Otoh, when things go wrong, I die in 5 seconds instead. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote><span style="color: #66ffff">if someone doesn't know how to fight a coercer... the coercer will win.  A lot of the low lvl coercers winning all the time is due to others not knowing a whole lot about what a coercer does... part of why i like the class so much myself</span> </blockquote>Yep. I love when people turn up the pace when they see their health going down rapidly. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Oh, so fun.

Captain Apple Darkberry
03-09-2007, 12:59 PM
<span style="color: #ff3300">No offense intended, but the worst thing that could happen to PvP would be for a Dev to listen to your ~suggestions~. Distinctive classes and abilities are NEEDED for many people to enjoy the game.  It allows ~replayability~ to the game that would be lost if every time I rolled a toon the only thing that changed was my race and the graphics of the spells. You wonder how you can enjoy the game when, in general, your Dirge can't PvP as well as a Swashbuckler?  If you wish to so the DPS of a Swash, the ROLL A SWASH!!!  If an ABILITY is overpowered, then it can be balanced, but your post reeks of wanting to have a group centric utility class do the same DPS as a DPS first class. I understand the frustration of being killed.  But YOU choose the class you play...   PvP is in many ways Rock~Paper~Scissors with skill thrown in to keep it a little random.  Sure, you might enjoy a game where everyone is a rock and the only differential factor is the skill, but imo that would stink and grow old quick, not because others have more skill than me, but because the game would always be the same. I play many classes...   ...because they are different and each fun in their own way.  Often it is exciting to play the ~underpowered~ class. </span>

BlueBlood22
03-09-2007, 03:45 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>I started life as an alt troub. Right the way upto 55 i was practically handing peoples arses to them. My guild needed a dirge bad for raiding so i betrayed and came back as dirge. </p><p>My first fight as a dirge was against a zerker in SS, he was mining away more than happily so in a come and start casting debuffs from range. This was a few GU's back and they all landed. I managed to get every debuff i had (mostly master) on him and then he realised what was happening. He turned round and beat the living crap outta me. </p><p>First thing i was thinking was, right gotta take a whole new approach to pvping with a dirge over troub. I browsed the dirge forums and made a few posts requesting advice and tips. </p><p>Im now 70. I have what most on my server call very good gear. Ive got predominantly nightchord, im using the Wurmslayer and beer stained buckler (resists) and i am 95% master spells. If i attack anyone, anyone at all, i ALWAYS use kite as my fighting method. I have found generally you cant stand toe to toe with anyone in T7 unless they are a caster. So first things first, use raincaller bow and fire the root. Keeping the ranged auto attack on you may get the proc and a further root. </p><p> What follows is the painfull part.....debuffs..... i have made on one instance 17 casts of my biggest main debuffs, all being resisted. With eof AA line in cast speed it wasnt hard to get upto 17 casts total. Not one of them landed. I realise im in big trouble so start to kite. Cut a long story short, they only thing that saved me was the ranged auto attack. I have both wurm destroyer and rain caller and their auto attack is almost the same as my hardest nuke.</p><p>Basically ive resigned to the fact that even average gear, most players in T7 will resist most if not all my debuffs, which leaves me with very little in the way of an armoury to attack with. The dirge for me in T7 is nothing more than a utility in raids that everyone wants a piece of, and same too in pvp, just dont expect to do much yourself unless you are fighting a total noob or someone who is wearing NPC bought no stat armour.</p><p>Now troub on the other hand, well, as long as u have the skill to play it, you should kick [I cannot control my vocabulary] through out all tiers. Ive stood and fought an exile troub who is a friend over and over and over. We were on comms and i tried every possible method to fight him. I tried toe to toe, i tried kite, i tried fear + root..........nothing worked. At most i got him to 40% health, and his gear is nowhere near the calibre of my own but with a practically perma stifle mezz, i couldnt do a [I cannot control my vocabulary] thing. Dirge is for support, ideally get a monk or swashy or tank to duo with, he has your buffs, and when u find more than 1 enemy, use fear and keep 1 out the fight til your partner has dropped the other <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Gear makes all the difference based only on wisdom and resist pools. Its fine having realy high int for those solid hard nukes but whats the point if u cant ever land em. </p><p>To close and end my rant, i agree with the OP that Dirge are by far crap in pvp. Not many would want to play one in T7 thats for sure. Having said that, its down to your play style, i would quite happily respec all my AA's to more a pvp orientation but then my guild suffers for the buff drop in raids. Lesser of 2 evils. My Dirge is pve alt  - i suggest to keep your main pvp toon as something useful solo.</p></blockquote><p>The best post by far, you landed straight where i meant, exactly what he said, ALL his debuffs are masters and it takes half hour through fight to land, the main purpose is not being overpowered but if your opponent has extreme gimped gear and ur MASTER debuffs are being resisted and other important necessary buffs that a Dirge has, then whats the point?, SOE has been doing a great job in trying to come with ways to make the situation better but what im trying to express as logic to the whole post is that whats the MOtivation that a new member playing the game WANTING to make a dirge for T7 , or a troub or a coercer, Im part of a huge raid guild myself and we have 1, yes 1 coercer, and im not denying facts here, people kno this, Servers are extremely populated with primary pvp classes and no T7 raid classes, and the coercer we have. HE'S NOT EVEN 70, hes lvl 66 because hes the only one we can find, and you would think being a huge force in the server would increase the chances of us finding classes such as those to raid often, but negative, were having MAIN raiders role classes from stcratch JUST TO RAID,  thats my point guys im not blowin off on your classes for being overpowered or nothing like that, but think of it this way, a guild wanting to raid, Raiders in general, ITS NECESSARY to have key classes for raids, and in a pvp server whats the point in having one IF YOU CAN'T PVP!?</p><p> as the reply before me mentioned, well if you can't beat them then join them, sadly it's what im doing, i just started rolling a bruiser, and he owns, no doubt, twink to fullest =pp, yes its fun but i still enjoy my dirge better, as a class, as in their whole roleplay in the everquest genre. But again replies are hot would liek to thank everyone again <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p>

BlueBlood22
03-09-2007, 03:50 PM
<cite>Oneira wrote:</cite><blockquote>Maybe it's just me, but I've seen quite an increase in the number of coercers out there, at least on Venekor.  Granted they aren't lev 70, but some of them could be hitting t4 and t5 soon.  I see more low lev coercers around now than wizzies or warlocks actually. </blockquote> Im sorry to say bud but its just you, if your talking t7 that is, t5 and lower there are plenty of them. Twinks maybe. Now think of it this way, what are the odds of 5-10 Coercers being Active raiders in t7? that's if theres that many =/.

DankShasta
03-10-2007, 05:45 PM
<p>Well the green swashy shouldnt have beat you first of all, not when you had the jump on him, but yeah at 70 forget about it, swashy is always gonna win.   The real question is who is better a group of 6 swashies, or 5 swashies and a dirge?  All i can say is yeah swashy is an easy class, so is brig. Double up is to them what inspiration is to Swashy, so if you cant take it that they are gonna kick your [Removed for Content] in an even 1v1, roll a swashy now, and get it over with, there are only like a million of them already!</p><p>   This game isnt about class balance or 1v1 ability, it is really about PvE content, and we have the good fortune to be allowed to PvP here. I dont think they should buff up bards, and I have two as co-mains, maybe bring down the rogues alittle, like what was up with gicing them reach? Did they really need that? Oh well don;t get caught up in it. Some bards use it like a crutch, i see alot of awful bards, who nomatter what happens just say, "I'm a bard what do you expect?"  Coercer, Swashy, Brig, and all healers own bards, so dont atack them. Hey hunt greens if you are solo. I hunt down greens,and stay away from the t7 rogues alot, there is nothing wrong with that, nomatter what the armies of rogues, and druids say. If they really wanted far 1v1s they should just fight each other anyway, as that would be fair.</p><p>    BTW--the reference to the bard who made "Master", if you ever seen Applesauce in action, he was nothing special, he was in a group of good classes that never stayed around long for a tough fight, he was crafty, and knew his class, but it's not like he could ever even think about killing even a DECENT swashy 1v1.</p><p>Dankshasta/Technics</p>

HerbertWalker
03-11-2007, 01:52 PM
<p>Here we go again, thinking that every class was intended to be viable in solo pvp.</p><p>Go play a solo pvp guardian, and s tu f about your f ing dirge</p>

achilles04
03-12-2007, 11:26 AM
<p>Before Darathar died on its feet, there was a little server event in Antonica. 3 to 4 guilds took part and it was an honourable 1 vs 1 with a mix up of classes.</p><p>We had a main guy calling who was fighting who, all players present made a huge oval around the 2 dueling. When your name was called you took you position at one end of the oval as did your opponent on the opposite end. When both were ready you jumped twice in the air.</p><p>I took my dirge to this get together, and in a dueling "arena" i beat a 2 brigands, a necromancer and a bruiser. The closest battle was the brigands but the other 2 i won extremely easily. I also watched a guardian win 3 of his 4 fights. Now, as far as class balance goes, i think this shows quite categorically that there is a balance in toons so far to say in "controlled" conditions. I will also hasten to add this was a few GU's back. </p><p>If this event were to happen again i can honestly say theres no way i would win any of the fights as constant resists to my debuffs seem to be a widespread issue. Debuffs are a dirges main ally, and when u cant land them you are left pretty vulnerable. This may change again with a future GU but for the time being, its a case of rolling a complimented pvp class, namely ranger and swash for qeynos.</p><p>I do look foward to the day i can find people to target on a new server <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Theres something special about hearing your group members saying CoB, C o B!! I like my dirge for its integral part of dps in a group, but beyond that there isnt much. I still choose to play him as my main however!</p><p>L/B</p>