Calibrated Automated harvesting tools now linked to tradeskill level, WHY?

[Umigo]

Well you now have a very unhappy Ranger <img src="/smilies/2e207fad049d4d292f60607f80f05768.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  The Calibrated shears and pickaxe that i have been using sense EOF came out are no longer equipable. Because they are level 47 and my tradeskill level is 21. <b>WHY ARE HARVESTING TOOLS LINKED TO TRADESKILL LEVEL? </b>My play style included hunting and gathering for the crafters, not doing the crafting myself(it is boring, no offense to those who enjoy that play style). That is not to say hunting and gathering is not boring, but with the tools the time spent was considerably reduced. I can see linking tools used in crafting to tradeskill level (ie calibrated rounding hammer), but not harvesting tools. By your logic all fishing, foresting, harvesting and mining skills should only advance as tradeskill level advances, not as it is as adventure level increases. If you want to make a change link the harvesting tools to both levels using which ever one is higher. That benefits the crafters who do not want to adventure and does not nerf the adventurer who does not want to craft.

[Chirpaa]

<cite>TheFever wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well you now have a very unhappy Ranger <img src="/smilies/2e207fad049d4d292f60607f80f05768.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  The Calibrated shears and pickaxe that i have been using sense EOF came out are no longer equipable. Because they are level 47 and my tradeskill level is 21. <b>WHY ARE HARVESTING TOOLS LINKED TO TRADESKILL LEVEL? </b>My play style included hunting and gathering for the crafters, not doing the crafting myself(it is boring, no offense to those who enjoy that play style). That is not to say hunting and gathering is not boring, but with the tools the time spent was considerably reduced. I can see linking tools used in crafting to tradeskill level (ie calibrated rounding hammer), but not harvesting tools. By your logic all fishing, foresting, harvesting and mining skills should only advance as tradeskill level advances, not as it is as adventure level increases. If you want to make a change link the harvesting tools to both levels using which ever one is higher. That benefits the crafters who do not want to adventure and does not nerf the adventurer who does not want to craft.</blockquote><p> I think the woodworker made tools for harvesting use adventure level for their prerequisite.  They give the same time reduction bonus.  Adventurer's get those, Crafters get the tinkered ones.  We're now even when it comes to available tools.  What's wrong with that?</p><p>BTW, the patch notes said exactly why they where changed, for consistency.</p><p>Eep, I'm editting to make sure you know I'm not arguing with you...right now my highest level is my adventure level on my most-played toon.  I just understand why they changed it and dont' see it as a problem, so I answered your "why?" from the subject line. <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Elorah]

Actually, the woodworker sandalwood harvesting tools are a 2 second less casting time for harvesting, so the highest tinker made ones still are MUCH better.  My higher level crafters now have the tinker made ones as I only need 3 tools, there is a 2.5 second reduction, and it increases my skill by 10.  Keep in mind that these are the Overclocked automated (level 66 crafter) ones and they have been that way since they went live.  I believe it was the 2 younger that were changed as the adventure level could use them.  I think that they were trying to give high level crafters a bonus this way.  It was mentioned by a developer that high level crafters would be getting a surprise type thing, perhaps this is it....?

[Umigo]

I was not aware of the woodworker tools, thank you for that information. However, now i have to buy new tools and store or sell (to npc, attuned) the old ones which were not cheap. But, the question still is why are <b>any</b> harvesting tools linked to tradeskill level?

[UlteriorModem]

<cite>TheFever wrote:</cite><blockquote> <b>WHY ARE HARVESTING TOOLS LINKED TO TRADESKILL LEVEL? </b> </blockquote>Darn good question... Why are they not linked to your harvesting levels ?

[Chirpaa]

<cite>TheFever wrote:</cite><blockquote> But, the question still is why are <b>any</b> harvesting tools linked to tradeskill level? </blockquote><p> Tradeskillers actually NEED to harvest more than adventuring types....it sorta makes sense, don't you think?</p><p>Typically, avid crafters have a higher crafter level than they do adventuring level, but they need to harvest.  Adventurers who don't craft, on the other hand, merely "choose" to harvest (or not).</p>

[sayitaintso]

More game mechanic changes YAY!!!!!!!! Just another way to diguise another time sink...Now you must level beyond 46 to be able to continue what you were able to do yesterday at any level....They can't get new players so I guess they figure they will try to keep the ones they have around as long as they can.... It's a fine line they walk.,..Eventually they will manage to agrivate everyone into playing someone else's game..

[UlteriorModem]

<cite>TheresaN wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>TheFever wrote:</cite><blockquote> But, the question still is why are <b>any</b> harvesting tools linked to tradeskill level? </blockquote><p> Tradeskillers actually NEED to harvest more than adventuring types....it sorta makes sense, don't you think?</p><p>Typically, avid crafters have a higher crafter level than they do adventuring level, but they need to harvest.  Adventurers who don't craft, on the other hand, merely "choose" to harvest (or not).</p></blockquote><p>Adtually no it doesent make sense. My provisioner is Level 37 tradeskill Level 3 adventurer. You can clearly see that he cannot gather things suitable to his tradeskill level. To do so would be suicide.</p><p>My "main" does all the collecting and hands the goodies to his "little brother" whom hands the crafted items back to Aquilla to sell. Coin is passed as needed.</p><p>edit;</p><p>Shouldent this really be in the tradeskill section ? Id love to hear some other tradeskillers input on the subject. </p>

[dartie]

<cite>TheresaN wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>TheFever wrote:</cite><blockquote> But, the question still is why are <b>any</b> harvesting tools linked to tradeskill level? </blockquote><p> Tradeskillers actually NEED to harvest more than adventuring types....it sorta makes sense, don't you think?</p><p>Typically, avid crafters have a higher crafter level than they do adventuring level, but they need to harvest.  Adventurers who don't craft, on the other hand, merely "choose" to harvest (or not).</p></blockquote><p>I'll respect TheresaN's right to her opinion, but my answer is a resounding, "No, it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever."  Crafting and adventuring are separate categories; it's really great that one character can do both, but it's even more great that a character can do *either.*  </p><p>I have a hard time with the distinction made here between "having" to harvest and "choosing" to harvest.  Let's set aside the obvious point that this is a game that we "choose" to play and that every single thing we do in the game is therefore a "choice."  Instead, consider whether crafters really "have" to harvest.  Plenty of my crafters buy most of their raws and rares on the broker.  I have a crafter in Kelethin who ran directly from the nursery to the crafting center and only sticks her head outside to buy essentials volume from the trainer.  She's never harvested a thing and "chooses" to buy her raws/rares from the broker.  </p><p>When she needs materials that are overpriced on the broker, I have another character (one properly equipped for the outside world) go get it for her.  Since most harvestables are in places with mobs nearby, I certainly associate harvesting *more* with adventuring than with crafting.  </p><p>Can I live with the new change?  Sure.  Do I feel huffy about it?  Not at all.  But if the devs want to know what makes sense to the players, I want them to hear from those of us with specialized characters whose sensibilities about what's appropriate for the various roles of those characters are being defied. </p>

[Calthine]

<cite>TheresaN wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I think the woodworker made tools for harvesting use adventure level for their prerequisite.  They give the same time reduction bonus.  Adventurer's get those, Crafters get the tinkered ones.  We're now even when it comes to available tools.  What's wrong with that?</p><p>BTW, the patch notes said exactly why they where changed, for consistency.</p><p>Eep, I'm editting to make sure you know I'm not arguing with you...right now my highest level is my adventure level on my most-played toon.  I just understand why they changed it and dont' see it as a problem, so I answered your "why?" from the subject line. <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p></blockquote> The Woodworker tools use the higher of your two levels, Adventure or Artisan.

[Umigo]

I have read the replies and I understand that crafters need harvests to make all the great things that they do. I also like to earn the gold needed to buy those crafted items. Harvesting pays for those items. The more I can harvest the greater the supply of harvests and the lower the price of harvests. I will verify the information about the woodworker versions of the tools hopefully tonight, assuming there are any around to buy. Assuming it is true that these woodworker tools are usable based on both adventure and artisan level. Then what is the inconsistency that the update is fixing. Seems like the fix should be to make all harvesting tools usability based on both artisan and adventure level. The more people that can harvest and the faster they can harvest the lower the cost of raw materials and finished materials. This makes both artisans and adventures happy (at least one ranger <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />).  Crafters complain (and I agree) the prices of raw materials on the broker are high, but for supply and demand to work there needs to be a abundance of supply to drive down the price.  Before this change I harvested about 1 hour a night in Lavastorm, I was the only one there harvesting. Generating 300-400 harvested items to sell on the broker. This change will greatly reduce that if not end it for the next couple of months.

[Korpo]

They were changed because they were originally intended to be tied to your tradeskill level, and were bugged.

[Ragnaphore]

<cite>UlteriorModem wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Adtually no it doesent make sense. My provisioner is Level 37 tradeskill Level 3 adventurer. You can clearly see that he cannot gather things suitable to his tradeskill level. To do so would be suicide.</p></blockquote><p>Actually you can harvest up to T6 without much problem with a low level adventurer - Newbies zones, Anto/CL, Nek (down Marr's Ascent), EL (fairies area), RV ("good" dryads area), SS docks.  </p><p>Even T7 is doable if you don't mind a few deaths. </p>

[Umigo]

<p>Well I checked out the woodworker version of the tools "sandalwood pick" & "sandalwood saw". They do speed up the harvesting, but do not give the +7 Mining or +10 harvesting bonus. Also, the Calibrated Automated Shears worked for both harvests and forestry, this requires Sandalwood Shovel and Sandalwood Saw. Slow the process back down when you can only equip two at a time.  But, thanks for the information it does help. Nothing says what level the Sandalwood tools are tied to Artisan or Adventure, but based on using them it is not aritsan only. </p><p>So the question remains why are harvesting tools tied to only artisan level and not to both for the case to the tinkered harvesting tools? If there is a inconsistancy to be fixed, it is the fact that all harvesting tools should be tied to the higher of artisan or adventure levels. Since a DEV or other SOE employee move the thread here I do not think they will ever reply to this question. Since, it makes there reasoning behind harvesting tools inconsistant.</p><p> So I appologize to the artisans, because I'm going to level up my Rangers woodworking skill to get back the use of the tools I payed alot of gold for. The reason for the appology is i will be dumping all the things i make in the market at very low prices to move them out quick and recover the cost to make them. Sorry!</p>

[Iseabeil]

<p>You just listed yourself why the tinkered tools are artisan only. Compaired to the woodworker made tools they are superior, especially at t7. Three items to cover five harvestskills AND added harvesting skills as a bonus. An Overclocked Automated Shears will increase gathering *and* foresting speed by <b>2.5</b>s as well as increase those harvest skills by 10, whilst a Sandalwood Shovel will increase gathering *only* by <b>2</b>s. Now, tell my why anyone would ever use the ww made tools if they had same level req, ie highest level no matter if artisan or adventure? The vast majority of all tinkered items are made to be usable by a minority and not replace the products of other crafters, and giving anyone access to these tools would kick woodworkers out of harvesting business. Tinkered items are out there for anyone willing to do the effort to use them, be it get artisan level up, or getting tinkering skill etc. </p><p>And for the record, I have a 350 tinkerer with every blueprint cept one or two of the rare, and I cant use all my harvesting tools myself as my alchemy is still too low so I know how it feels to have unusable tools, but I can live with that as I know its just a matter of takin some time to get my last levels done and its my own fault Im putting it off :p (yup, Im lazy)</p>

[Umigo]

Not really, Yes the tinkered items are better, but they also cost about 10 times more than the woodworker versions. I know, because i have now bought both. There is always different classes of products (i.e. common, uncommon, treasured, master crafted, legendary, fabled, mythical...) and they are priced accordingly. The rarer the item or more costly to make the higher the price, that is what protects woodworker harvesting tools from tinkered harvesting tools. Woodworker tools are cheap to make and assuming priced accordingly, cheap to buy. Since you are a tinkerer, how much does it cost to make the tinkered tools, given the cost of material? Question for the artisan only or predominately artisan: Skill level for harvesting, forestry, mining, and fishing, does it go up as your artisan level goes up? I know it goes up as my adventure level goes up and that i cannot harvest in a area until it is high enough for that level. The implication if skills do not rise based on the higher of the two levels is that harvesting is tied to adventuring and not crafting. However, if it is based on the higher of the two levels then why not all associated tools? PS: Get busy on leveling up, I just went up 14 levels as woodworker in the last 3 days. Of course i'm bored to death at moment and will kill any orc that crosses my path. <img src="/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />