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View Full Version : Why are mystics getting nerfed?


ScurvyTRatt
02-26-2007, 09:26 PM
<p>As the subject says. We have been going round and round on the Mystic boards and would like to know:</p><p> Why is mystic sow being nerfed?</p><p>Thank you.</p>

Fayline Fyrecat
02-26-2007, 09:38 PM
<p>I would imagine it's similar to what happened when 'chanters got "defined" as being the masters of control.  Control abilities of other classes (stuns, stifles, etc.) were nerfed/removed/changed in order to give enchanters thier niche of mob control.</p><p>For some reason, bards consider run speed part of their identity.  In order for them to be the masters of run speed, others' speed buffs had to be reduced.</p>

Martrae
02-26-2007, 10:21 PM
I highly doubt you'll find any bard that advocated the nerfing of mystics.

thedu
02-26-2007, 11:21 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>I highly doubt you'll find any bard that advocated the nerfing of mystics. </blockquote> No you probably won't, but that's the way it works.  The same thing happened with Bolster originally.  Defilers complained that one of their defining spells wasn't as well developed and thus Bolster was nerfed.

Rijacki
02-26-2007, 11:30 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>I would imagine it's similar to what happened when 'chanters got "defined" as being the masters of control.  Control abilities of other classes (stuns, stifles, etc.) were nerfed/removed/changed in order to give enchanters thier niche of mob control.</p><p>For some reason, bards consider run speed part of their identity.  In order for them to be the masters of run speed, others' speed buffs had to be reduced.</p></blockquote> Ironically, the bard runspeed is being kept the same for those who have maxed Harbringers (KoS Acheivement) and are over level 55 but all other bards are getting a speed reduction.  Even with the.. umm.. "improvement" to bard speed, several other classes will still be faster and can still buff a -group- to be faster than any bard (and at as low as level 13).  I think even the max, reduced, mystic speed will be at level 13+ and max EoF runspeed achievement (5 points) only about 1% or 2% less than the bard 55+ with max KoS achievement (8 points). No bard ever advocated having anyone else's runspeed reduced.  Bards wanted their own runspeed, gained at a higher cost and higher level, to be better, though, than anyone else's.  Bards do not get a runspeed improvement at all in EoF (dirges get added safefall as their enhancement to Selo's, not sure if Troubies even get that).  Instead bards are taking a reduction on the KoS achievement for out-of-combat speed (but an increase for in-combat) that, if maxed, is offset by the new level 55 skill. Bards have not been "defined" by the devs as being the master of anything, not even something as small as runspeed.

TaleraRis
02-26-2007, 11:34 PM
Which ironically fits the class description given for EQ Live bards as jacks of all trades, masters of none. Not that it stayed like that, but I remember that's how they used to be billed.

Lilj
02-27-2007, 08:25 AM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>As the subject says. We have been going round and round on the Mystic boards and would like to know:</p><p> Why is mystic sow being nerfed?</p><p>Thank you.</p></blockquote>It's a good question, unfortunately we can only make some more or less qualified guesses. I can understand putting the Mystic Sow down to 5% instead of 6% because as far as I remember that is what the tooltip on the AA says. But I don't understand the 4%. To bring it to 5% would be a fix, but bring it to 4% and it's a nerf. I understand the Mystics frustration, and I still hope they will 'only' bring it down to 5%. I would be careful about giving other classes the blame for this change (eg bards or wardens) though. As other poster have said, only a very few bards (I think I have seen 2 so far) has advocated a nerf to other classes run speed. Good luck guys!

ScurvyTRatt
02-27-2007, 12:28 PM
<p>So it looks like a balance issue. To balance something out you can either make one stronger or the other weaker. Lets take a look:</p><p>Make stronger:</p><p>Make bards out of combat run speed faster, in paticular for less expensive AAs. Effect: Happy bards, and happy anyone who groups with a bard. This solution has no ill effects.</p><p>Make weaker:</p><p>Nerf mystics to a slower speed. Effect: Anger mystics, some of them to the point of giving up. Anger some other customers who have either mystic friends or just are sick of mystics complaining about it. Make some bards happy.</p><p>One solution only promotes customer happiness the other only makes a very select few customers happy while make a large group angry.</p><p>Taking the current solution that the development team is taking is one that most companies would consider a bad idea. Since, it makes for poor customer relations when there is a very easy solution to make everyone happy.</p><p>I cannot put into words how foolish of a decision this is. There has to be some reason for nerfing mystics. Honestly there has to be no right minded company that wants to stay in business can make such a stupid decision. Doesn't Smedly read this stuff? How could he let a decision that is only going to make him less money with no chance of making more money get implimented?</p>

Martrae
02-27-2007, 12:42 PM
I will say I'm NOT happy with the changes. The whole thing depresses me to no end. THIS is the promises boost to the bard class? Nerfing of the mystics and bait-and-switch with our run speed? /sarcasm on But hey! Our auto-attack is now par with the other scout classes! That'll make all the difference! /sarcasm off After all these years with SoE, you'd think I'd learn to not get my hopes up....

ScurvyTRatt
02-27-2007, 02:52 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>I will say I'm NOT happy with the changes. The whole thing depresses me to no end. THIS is the promises boost to the bard class? Nerfing of the mystics and bait-and-switch with our run speed? /sarcasm on But hey! Our auto-attack is now par with the other scout classes! That'll make all the difference! /sarcasm off After all these years with SoE, you'd think I'd learn to not get my hopes up.... </blockquote><p> I agree. Bards need some love, I spend a lot of my time partnered with a dirge and I can out DPS her from time to time. Thats terrible! so good to see the boost to autoattack.</p><p>However, rather than make everyone run slower, why not just make bards run faster? Seriously, whats the harm in giving bards 65% out of combat runspeed to their group? Or even faster?</p>

scl
02-27-2007, 05:37 PM
You consider a reduction to a run speed buff a nerf to a healing class? You can still heal just as well as you could, right? You can still buff and debuff as well (minus the aforementioned speed buff), right? God, grow up will you? There are classes with real problems in this game, not tiny insignificant blotches that shouldn't be mentioned within a hundred miles of the word nerf.

Owlbe
02-27-2007, 06:09 PM
Yes, Mystics are getting nerfed.  No one likes to get nerfed.  Please don't trivialize the Mystic communities  concerns with pettiness as your argument makes no sense.  With 0% run speed bards would still be able to full fill there roles as well.  Its a loss of utility period no matter how you cut it.

Gungo
02-27-2007, 07:27 PM
<p>Yes it was a nerf. But it is warranted. Imho no class cept maybe bard should be as fast as the fastest horse. BECUASE, horses require a large plat (15+plat), status (~1million status or like 400writs) and guild status (guild level 60) investment (not to mention time). Handing out run speed that is faster then the fastest horse (50%) basically trivilizes an already partially trivilised accomplishment. </p><p>I still think the 40% run speed "free" carpet should be nerfed to 24% runspeed. Basically because NO ONE buys the 24% runspeed horse (the slowest horse). Since you can get a 40% runspeed carpet for free. Everytime a class has faster run speed then the current fastest runspeed horse. That feature/reward is trivilized.  </p><p>Whether you agree or not doesn't matter its my opinion run speed and every other feature should be balanced on a global scale w/o just increasing it beyond limits.</p>

SnAke19
02-27-2007, 09:33 PM
you don´t get it no dev will even read this - that´s everquest - this policy is also the reason why millions of people more likely play a game like wow

ScurvyTRatt
02-27-2007, 11:29 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>Yes it was a nerf. But it is warranted. Imho no class cept maybe bard should be as fast as the fastest horse. BECUASE, horses require a large plat (15+plat), status (~1million status or like 400writs) and guild status (guild level 60) investment (not to mention time). Handing out run speed that is faster then the fastest horse (50%) basically trivilizes an already partially trivilised accomplishment. </p><p>I still think the 40% run speed "free" carpet should be nerfed to 24% runspeed. Basically because NO ONE buys the 24% runspeed horse (the slowest horse). Since you can get a 40% runspeed carpet for free. Everytime a class has faster run speed then the current fastest runspeed horse. That feature/reward is trivilized.  </p><p>Whether you agree or not doesn't matter its my opinion run speed and every other feature should be balanced on a global scale w/o just increasing it beyond limits.</p></blockquote><p>Lets take the horse runspeed example. The horse essentally gives a character an ability that his class does not have. So, suppose there was an item that could cast a 1850 point ward every 5 seconds. That item is really hard to get, say 400 writs and 15+ plat. Should mystics get our single target ward nerfed to make sure that it doesn't trivialize how hard it is to get that ward item?</p><p>If I could pay 15+ plat and a pile of status to get a perminant cross class ability that would be fantastic. Oh, and it gives lots of stats bonuses to skills and mits.</p><p>There is a mystic at every raid, and those people who invested in those horses don't go throwing them away for SOW they keep those horses because in addition to the same speed they give some pretty spiffy stats.</p><p>The "SoW trivializes 50% mounts" arguement is not a fair comparison because not only is the mount the same speed it gives a bunch of bonuses that stack with you getup of fabled out gear. Its that extra push over the top.</p><p>I will wager that you do not have one of those horses. Because if you did, you definately would not be complaining about SoW being too powerful. </p>

ScurvyTRatt
02-27-2007, 11:30 PM
<cite>SnAke1983 wrote:</cite><blockquote>you don´t get it no dev will even read this - that´s everquest - this policy is also the reason why millions of people more likely play a game like wow </blockquote><p> I am starting to feel that way. I think there is a better solution to this, but I still have a difficult time seeing the problem. So its why I am asking for an explination of the problem from a Development standpoint. </p><p>I fail to see how nerfing mystics is going to make the game better when there are classes out there that need love, and bugs that need to be fixed. </p>

Laeal
02-28-2007, 12:25 AM
Owlbear is misquoted as writing: <blockquote>With "reduced" achievement run speed benefits, mystics will still be able to fulfill their role. </blockquote>Fixed that for you, Owlbear.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Waking
02-28-2007, 04:04 AM
I came to this thread expecting to see a so called "nerf" to mystics. To my surprise I see someone saying a 5%(effectivly making yer SoW 45%) reduction a nerf. I will admit all tho a somewhat random thing to reduce, by all means you are no less effective then you were before. The reduction in bolster or w/e was a nerf, yer 5% runspeed??? /whambulance.

Llach
02-28-2007, 04:16 AM
OMG Mystics are having their run speed buff reduced to 45%.  Well that cuts it!  No more Mystics in my groups. I mean only 45% run speed buff.  Just makes Mystics a completely useless Warding, Healing, Buffing, Debuffing, DPSing <span style="font-size: medium"><span style="color: #ff0000"><b>HEALER </b></span></span>class.  [Removed for Content] you SoE reducing Mystics to such a completely useless class. In other words, grats on making the pathetic whinge thread in the history of the boards.

Gungo
02-28-2007, 11:39 AM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>Yes it was a nerf. But it is warranted. Imho no class cept maybe bard should be as fast as the fastest horse. BECUASE, horses require a large plat (15+plat), status (~1million status or like 400writs) and guild status (guild level 60) investment (not to mention time). Handing out run speed that is faster then the fastest horse (50%) basically trivilizes an already partially trivilised accomplishment. </p><p>I still think the 40% run speed "free" carpet should be nerfed to 24% runspeed. Basically because NO ONE buys the 24% runspeed horse (the slowest horse). Since you can get a 40% runspeed carpet for free. Everytime a class has faster run speed then the current fastest runspeed horse. That feature/reward is trivilized.  </p><p>Whether you agree or not doesn't matter its my opinion run speed and every other feature should be balanced on a global scale w/o just increasing it beyond limits.</p></blockquote><p>Lets take the horse runspeed example. The horse essentally gives a character an ability that his class does not have. So, suppose there was an item that could cast a 1850 point ward every 5 seconds. That item is really hard to get, say 400 writs and 15+ plat. Should mystics get our single target ward nerfed to make sure that it doesn't trivialize how hard it is to get that ward item?</p><p>If I could pay 15+ plat and a pile of status to get a perminant cross class ability that would be fantastic. Oh, and it gives lots of stats bonuses to skills and mits.</p><p>There is a mystic at every raid, and those people who invested in those horses don't go throwing them away for SOW they keep those horses because in addition to the same speed they give some pretty spiffy stats.</p><p>The "SoW trivializes 50% mounts" arguement is not a fair comparison because not only is the mount the same speed it gives a bunch of bonuses that stack with you getup of fabled out gear. Its that extra push over the top.</p><p>I will wager that you do not have one of those horses. Because if you did, you definately would not be complaining about SoW being too powerful. </p></blockquote><p>Are you kidding me thats your argument? An imaginary what if situation that would never happen.  See the problem with yoru argument it doesn't exsist. Its made up in your head because you lack any real substance to back up your argument. </p><p>Ill make a deal with you you can have the horse if they provided a status item like you created. We will see who will be more [Removed for Content]; people who worked and payed for status horses OR The entire shaman community. Next time try making a real arugment before you decide to make stuff up to support an obviously flawed mentality. </p><p>BTW this super horse stats offer at most 7 to crush slash pierce ranged and focus. Which do pretty much nothing for any priest and caster. O yeah <u>and Sow is usuable indoors where the horse and its bonus are not.</u>  So which is better? Don't give me this fake B.S. Sow speed greater then the highest purchaseable mount is completely unbalancing. And yes i will wager you are wrong i do own the new GL 60 horse. </p>

Bozidar
02-28-2007, 11:50 AM
<p>wardens are the wolf druids... the fact that mystics will even be able to go the same speed as us is insulting, let alone what it was like when they were faster..</p><p>it was a bug, it's being fixed.  They should nerf it to only go to 30%.  You're a priest, not a druid.. </p>

Bozidar
02-28-2007, 11:51 AM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><u>Sow is usuable indoors where the horse and its bonus are not.</u> </blockquote>speed from the horse is not there, bonuses are

lmhotep
02-28-2007, 11:57 AM
This tread made my day, keep em coming <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

wushupork
02-28-2007, 12:32 PM
<p>I'm not sure <i>anyone</i> really wanted to see this nerf, and I agree it does seem unjustified. At the very least mystics should have the same runspeed boost as the warden version after Enhanced with AP:  the thing setting them apart is duration vs. fall damage reduction.</p><p>And just to clarify for some:</p><p>Wardens/Fury=Druid=Priest     Mystic/Defiler=Shaman=Priest</p><p>Oh here's something to think about: Mystics summon a <i>spirit wolf</i> to do their bidding, Wardens call out a wolf pack to do theirs, and they can't even control it once they're out. </p><p>So by that logic- Let's nerf wardens to 30%, yeah thats the ticket!</p>

Bozidar
02-28-2007, 12:35 PM
<p>fine, they're shamans, we're the wolf druids =P</p><p>in pvp i DEFINATELY wanted to see this nerf!!</p><p>Looks like they're down to 40%, not 45%.. i can live with that.</p>

Bozidar
02-28-2007, 12:36 PM
<cite>wushupork wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Oh here's something to think about: Mystics summon a <i>spirit wolf</i> to do their bidding, Wardens call out a wolf pack to do theirs, and they can't even control it once they're out. </p></blockquote> Wardens turn INTO wolves..and from what i've seen on pvp, mystics turn into puddy with a prefix of "Corpse of" <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Gungo
02-28-2007, 01:08 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><u>Sow is usuable indoors where the horse and its bonus are not.</u> </blockquote>speed from the horse is not there, bonuses are</blockquote>until you die (or get debuffed) in which case its gone.

Nature
02-28-2007, 01:11 PM
<cite>TaleraRis wrote:</cite><blockquote>Which ironically fits the class description given for EQ Live bards as jacks of all trades, masters of none. Not that it stayed like that, but I remember that's how they used to be billed. </blockquote> Ironically runspeed is not and should not be class defining for any class except bard. Because bards suck in battle they can at least escape certain death by running away. Bards are billed as entertainers(or as some would say lovers not fighters). At least that is how it should be in eq2. In eq1(live) bards were gods until their AoE spells were nerfed to only work while standing still. I made more coin farming mobs with my one bard than any other full group of toons. Although they eventually nerfed the bard so bad in eq1(live) because of abuse by certain people the bard in this game has seffured because of that and has royally sucked balls from day one. Bards should be able to pick up and run away and survive unless rooted. Thats what made the class in eq1(live) interesting. Knowing that you could take flight at any time and out run any mob. Everything else about bards sucked in eq1 except run speed.

Bozidar
02-28-2007, 01:11 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><u>Sow is usuable indoors where the horse and its bonus are not.</u> </blockquote>speed from the horse is not there, bonuses are</blockquote>until you die (or get debuffed) in which case its gone. </blockquote>I usually zone out, resummon, and go back in if i die.  I've never seen a horse get debuffed off of me..

Zeltaria
02-28-2007, 01:30 PM
<div align="left">*ignores all the trolls* <p>I've just come in support with my Mystic brother's and sisters asking for our so to be left alone or at LEAST be put to the level the description says.. not nerf it.</p><p>Scouts do need some loving, heck everyone needs some loving. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>I'll never understand why SOE gives us players something and then takes it away..... WHY?    Why can't you just make it better for someone while NOT taking away from someone else? </div>

ScurvyTRatt
02-28-2007, 02:28 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>Yes it was a nerf. But it is warranted. Imho no class cept maybe bard should be as fast as the fastest horse. BECUASE, horses require a large plat (15+plat), status (~1million status or like 400writs) and guild status (guild level 60) investment (not to mention time). Handing out run speed that is faster then the fastest horse (50%) basically trivilizes an already partially trivilised accomplishment. </p><p>I still think the 40% run speed "free" carpet should be nerfed to 24% runspeed. Basically because NO ONE buys the 24% runspeed horse (the slowest horse). Since you can get a 40% runspeed carpet for free. Everytime a class has faster run speed then the current fastest runspeed horse. That feature/reward is trivilized.  </p><p>Whether you agree or not doesn't matter its my opinion run speed and every other feature should be balanced on a global scale w/o just increasing it beyond limits.</p></blockquote><p>Lets take the horse runspeed example. The horse essentally gives a character an ability that his class does not have. So, suppose there was an item that could cast a 1850 point ward every 5 seconds. That item is really hard to get, say 400 writs and 15+ plat. Should mystics get our single target ward nerfed to make sure that it doesn't trivialize how hard it is to get that ward item?</p><p>If I could pay 15+ plat and a pile of status to get a perminant cross class ability that would be fantastic. Oh, and it gives lots of stats bonuses to skills and mits.</p><p>There is a mystic at every raid, and those people who invested in those horses don't go throwing them away for SOW they keep those horses because in addition to the same speed they give some pretty spiffy stats.</p><p>The "SoW trivializes 50% mounts" arguement is not a fair comparison because not only is the mount the same speed it gives a bunch of bonuses that stack with you getup of fabled out gear. Its that extra push over the top.</p><p>I will wager that you do not have one of those horses. Because if you did, you definately would not be complaining about SoW being too powerful. </p></blockquote><p>Are you kidding me thats your argument? An imaginary what if situation that would never happen.  See the problem with yoru argument it doesn't exsist. Its made up in your head because you lack any real substance to back up your argument. </p><p>Ill make a deal with you you can have the horse if they provided a status item like you created. We will see who will be more [Removed for Content]; people who worked and payed for status horses OR The entire shaman community. Next time try making a real arugment before you decide to make stuff up to support an obviously flawed mentality. </p><p>BTW this super horse stats offer at most 7 to crush slash pierce ranged and focus. Which do pretty much nothing for any priest and caster. O yeah <u>and Sow is usuable indoors where the horse and its bonus are not.</u>  So which is better? Don't give me this fake B.S. Sow speed greater then the highest purchaseable mount is completely unbalancing. And yes i will wager you are wrong i do own the new GL 60 horse. </p></blockquote><p>First, let me apologize for making you so angry that you cannot even type correctly. I underestimated how much the current speed of mystic's SoW power infuriates others.</p><p>My arguement was compring an item that is difficult to get that grants an spell or combat art not available to a class that a player plays. Additionally, that item is better than any version of that combat art or spell. With the GL 60 horse as an example, it is good enough that many Mystics use it over SoW. So if many mystics use it over SoW then why does SoW need to be nerfed? Is nerfing SoW effective use of development time?</p><p>If the bonuses from mounts are so low, then perhaps they should be removed, because it appears that have no value to you. Additionally, the bonuses are usable indoors.</p><p>I am guessing that you feel that mystic sow should be nerfed because the horse should be better because of how difficult it is to obtain. Extending that arguement, bards should go slower than 50% as well since the horse is more difficult to obtain than creating a bard. Am I right? </p>

ScurvyTRatt
02-28-2007, 02:35 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>wardens are the wolf druids... the fact that mystics will even be able to go the same speed as us is insulting, let alone what it was like when they were faster..</p><p>it was a bug, it's being fixed.  They should nerf it to only go to 30%.  You're a priest, not a druid.. </p></blockquote><p>So you feel that wardens should be faster than Mystics. A valid arguement. Would a better solution be to make wardens go faster while in wolf form than current shaman speed? Or is slowing down Mystics the best solution to make everyone happy?</p><p>So you feel that not only should mystics go slower, but they should go slower than freebie carpets, thus making sow a nearly worthless power post level 55ish? </p><p>How do you feel about Furies? They have a signifigant in combat run speed boost, that makes them quite high on the PvP totem pole right now. Do you think that Wardens should have that, and have it faster than furies, since wardens are the wolf druids and should be faster. </p><p>As for being a priest not a druid, I do believe that priest was the base class, then it branched into Cleric, Druid or Shaman then to the specific current class (such as warden or mystic). </p>

ScurvyTRatt
02-28-2007, 02:44 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><cite>wushupork wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Oh here's something to think about: Mystics summon a <i>spirit wolf</i> to do their bidding, Wardens call out a wolf pack to do theirs, and they can't even control it once they're out. </p></blockquote> Wardens turn INTO wolves..and from what i've seen on pvp, mystics turn into puddy with a prefix of "Corpse of" <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote> Since you are so passionate about making mystics less powerful, you either are getting killed by them, or well I guess you are getting killed by them. If you were making them into corpses so much, I would imagine you would rather them have something more to bring to the table for a better challenge than to make them easier to catch and kill.

Koltr
02-28-2007, 03:11 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>So it looks like a balance issue. To balance something out you can either make one stronger or the other weaker. Lets take a look:</p><p>Make stronger:</p><p>Make bards out of combat run speed faster, in paticular for less expensive AAs. Effect: Happy bards, and happy anyone who groups with a bard. This solution has no ill effects.</p><p>Make weaker:</p><p>Nerf mystics to a slower speed. Effect: Anger mystics, some of them to the point of giving up. Anger some other customers who have either mystic friends or just are sick of mystics complaining about it. Make some bards happy.</p><p>One solution only promotes customer happiness the other only makes a very select few customers happy while make a large group angry.</p><p>Taking the current solution that the development team is taking is one that most companies would consider a bad idea. Since, it makes for poor customer relations when there is a very easy solution to make everyone happy.</p><p>I cannot put into words how foolish of a decision this is. There has to be some reason for nerfing mystics. Honestly there has to be no right minded company that wants to stay in business can make such a stupid decision. Doesn't Smedly read this stuff? How could he let a decision that is only going to make him less money with no chance of making more money get implimented?</p></blockquote>There goes the balance issue again! <img src="/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> How many times have usefull skills been nerfed to "balance" the game? Balance is pure perception and not based in fact. Once a person learnes how to use a particular class very well, they will be capable of performing much better than the casual gamer and thus they are by definition out of balance with the other palyers. Bards have drifted so far from the "Play an accordian, go to jail" model that they may as well be tone deaf rangers with poor aiming abilities. As far as run speed is concerned, it was pretty much the only reason you would have a bard in your group in the first place, and having played a troubador and a dirge, I am well accustomed to the process of OOC "troubador lfg" and then waiting for way too long to get a group to invite me. <img src="/smilies/2e207fad049d4d292f60607f80f05768.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> The run speed enhancement made all the difference. The mystic SOW was great but did not operate on the entire group, none the less if a choice came between a troubadour and a mystic, the mystic would always win, besides: who would you rather have in your group? Somebody who could give a runspeed which drops the moment combat begins or a mystic who could place wards and heal damage. On the other sode, the SOW only lasts for 15 minutes so a mystic has to charge everybody up before making the mad dash to whatever mob is on the menu, but they could heal and ward your group so it still is a no brainer. Attempting to balance the game to satisfy the noisy complaints a handfull of customers, by damaging the usefullness of a large number of toons, doesn't seem to me to be the most productive use of design and engineering resources, but that's just my opinion.<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Gungo
02-28-2007, 03:18 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>Yes it was a nerf. But it is warranted. Imho no class cept maybe bard should be as fast as the fastest horse. BECUASE, horses require a large plat (15+plat), status (~1million status or like 400writs) and guild status (guild level 60) investment (not to mention time). Handing out run speed that is faster then the fastest horse (50%) basically trivilizes an already partially trivilised accomplishment. </p><p>I still think the 40% run speed "free" carpet should be nerfed to 24% runspeed. Basically because NO ONE buys the 24% runspeed horse (the slowest horse). Since you can get a 40% runspeed carpet for free. Everytime a class has faster run speed then the current fastest runspeed horse. That feature/reward is trivilized.  </p><p>Whether you agree or not doesn't matter its my opinion run speed and every other feature should be balanced on a global scale w/o just increasing it beyond limits.</p></blockquote><p>Lets take the horse runspeed example. The horse essentally gives a character an ability that his class does not have. So, suppose there was an item that could cast a 1850 point ward every 5 seconds. That item is really hard to get, say 400 writs and 15+ plat. Should mystics get our single target ward nerfed to make sure that it doesn't trivialize how hard it is to get that ward item?</p><p>If I could pay 15+ plat and a pile of status to get a perminant cross class ability that would be fantastic. Oh, and it gives lots of stats bonuses to skills and mits.</p><p>There is a mystic at every raid, and those people who invested in those horses don't go throwing them away for SOW they keep those horses because in addition to the same speed they give some pretty spiffy stats.</p><p>The "SoW trivializes 50% mounts" arguement is not a fair comparison because not only is the mount the same speed it gives a bunch of bonuses that stack with you getup of fabled out gear. Its that extra push over the top.</p><p>I will wager that you do not have one of those horses. Because if you did, you definately would not be complaining about SoW being too powerful. </p></blockquote><p>Are you kidding me thats your argument? An imaginary what if situation that would never happen.  See the problem with yoru argument it doesn't exsist. Its made up in your head because you lack any real substance to back up your argument. </p><p>Ill make a deal with you you can have the horse if they provided a status item like you created. We will see who will be more [Removed for Content]; people who worked and payed for status horses OR The entire shaman community. Next time try making a real arugment before you decide to make stuff up to support an obviously flawed mentality. </p><p>BTW this super horse stats offer at most 7 to crush slash pierce ranged and focus. Which do pretty much nothing for any priest and caster. O yeah <u>and Sow is usuable indoors where the horse and its bonus are not.</u>  So which is better? Don't give me this fake B.S. Sow speed greater then the highest purchaseable mount is completely unbalancing. And yes i will wager you are wrong i do own the new GL 60 horse. </p></blockquote><p>First, let me apologize for making you so angry that you cannot even type correctly. I underestimated how much the current speed of mystic's SoW power infuriates others.</p><p>My arguement was compring an item that is difficult to get that grants an spell or combat art not available to a class that a player plays. Additionally, that item is better than any version of that combat art or spell. With the GL 60 horse as an example, it is good enough that many Mystics use it over SoW. So if many mystics use it over SoW then why does SoW need to be nerfed? Is nerfing SoW effective use of development time?</p><p>If the bonuses from mounts are so low, then perhaps they should be removed, because it appears that have no value to you. Additionally, the bonuses are usable indoors.</p><p>I am guessing that you feel that mystic sow should be nerfed because the horse should be better because of how difficult it is to obtain. Extending that arguement, bards should go slower than 50% as well since the horse is more difficult to obtain than creating a bard. Am I right? </p></blockquote><p> Got to love the strength of your debates. Now you have relegated to commenting on my grammer where you have failed to properly write yourself. I do not feel the need to point out your flaws, but i assure you i saw several already. And really i don't care its an online forum discussion and not a report.</p><p>Fact is many mystics dont use the horse. Some had horses prior to the AA and Some just like the look and "status" of the horse. The bonuses do nothing for a healer 7 focus is basically usesless to them. The bonus ARE NOT reliable indoors. If you die or get debuffed the bonuses are removed AND you can not cast it indoors. In actuality casting a horse outdoors and zoning into an indoor instance to keep the horse bonus indoors is most likely a BUG. As it circumvents the horse restriction.</p><p>And finally how fast do you think the new bard speed is? I'll give you a hint its not faster then the GL 60 (50%)horse AND they need to be lvl 55+ w AA (psst 38% +8aa = 46%) to even get there. Whereas the mystic sow was achievable in the 20's w less AA's. But yes you are correct i do beleive there should be some balance with purchaseable horses and buff speed. Especialy if they are considering horses to be one of the main features of guild rewards with a substantial monetary and status investment. </p><p>That is the same reason why i think the Free DoF carpet needs to be nerfed to 24% runspeed. The same runspeed as the cheapest mounts. Its about balance and progression. Once you hit GL 60 earn 15pp and do about 400 writs you character can progress and upgrade from 40% (lu32 mystic sow) runspeed to 50% runspeed. </p>

Chefren
03-01-2007, 10:28 AM
[email protected] wrote:<blockquote><p>And finally how fast do you think the new bard speed is? I'll give you a hint its not faster then the GL 60 (50%)horse AND they need to be lvl 55+ w AA (psst 38% +8aa = 46%) to even get there. Whereas the mystic sow was achievable in the 20's w less AA's. But yes you are correct i do beleive there should be some balance with purchaseable horses and buff speed. Especialy if they are considering horses to be one of the main features of guild rewards with a substantial monetary and status investment.</p></blockquote> The best part is that before gu32 the bard speed was (drum roll) 46%. That's because the aa skill giving added speed was nerfed to 1% per point where as it used to be 1,5% per point. Also it appears that the aa lost it's in-combat runspeed component. So thats 4% less from the aa and 4% more from the skill upgrade. Bards below level 55 potentially had their runspeed nerfed. The only think actually boosting the run speed of many bards in this update is that by freeing up aa's from the end ability we can now increase the number of aa's put into runspeed from 4 to 8. Why mystics had to be nerfed is beyond me.

Moongloom
03-01-2007, 11:08 AM
<p>You know the easiest way for SOE to stop alot of the complaints and gripes is to test some of their improvements and changes alot more.  </p><p>If they wouldn't have put in live something they don't want or something they will remove then the easiest way for them would be to not put it in the game to begin with.  </p><p>Then this entire debate would be moot because no one would know there was something that was removed/changed.  </p>

LizzyIzzy2
03-01-2007, 11:41 AM
<p>I suspect that all classes would handle changes better if the developers explained the reasoning behind the changes. No one likes to be nerfed but, with no explanation, it is easy to assume that there was no rational thought behind the change. I really hope that this was not changed SOLELY based on PvP gripes. </p><p>So not just for the Mystic nerf, but for all changes, how about explaining WHY the change is being made?</p>

ChildofHate
03-01-2007, 11:51 AM
<p>This comment, "<b><u><span style="color: #33ff66">You're a priest, not a druid</span></u></b>.. " had me cracking up.  </p><p>"There are six there!"  "Nuh-uh, there are half a dozen"</p><p>last i remember:</p><ul><li>Templars / Inquisitors -- Priests of the Gods</li><li>Furies / Wardens -- Priests of Nature and its elements</li><li>Mystics / Defilers -- Priests of the spirit world.</li></ul><p>This is of course a generalized description of the 3 healer classes and i am sure someone will happily nitpick it down to the very LETTER of each and every line in what i has posted here.  Go right ahead, i bought a new box of nits just yesterday.  However, that arguement i quoted may as well have been a negative byproduct of some really bad Tacobell.  that's about all it's worth.</p>

SouthernAvenger
03-01-2007, 12:20 PM
ROFLMAO...... a ward isn't a utility spell..... run speed does not keep you alive in raid zones... how can you even compare the two ? I understand that you're upset the speed is getting reduced, but to compare it to a spell that is used to keep some alive is ludacris *deleted quote, as it was the wrong one*

Angilia Everheart
03-01-2007, 12:47 PM
<p>What it boils down to is we lost a part of our utility spell without a valid explanation on why.</p><p>People bring up the mounts argument. Fact is two other classes paladins and shadowknights get free mounts at low levels. Why dont the mount argument folks touch that aspect? We should be the ones [Removed for Content] off that you can buy something that gives you the same ability we get as a class. I mean the non mystics are complaning because they can buy something we get for free. I wish I could buy an item one time that gave me another classes abilities. Hell you already had totems to give you SOW if you wanted it. And you can buy a horse at higher levels to match my ability. What the hell do you have to complain about. Your basically saying you can have the same thing I spend AA points on for cash. which I am sure you will come to realize that at higher levels once your spells are  adept 3 or higher and your gear is decent is basically wasted on alts anyway.</p><p>If the reason was in fact making the bards happy with more speed give it to them also but no reason to turn our ability into something that will not be used anymore outside of in a dungeon. The SOW in all honesty is the only utility spell that mystics get. The other leather classes get utilities like ports, evacs, invisibility and such. the SOw is the only actualy utility mystics get. Why not leave them with thier cookie of a free speed of the horse utility. Other classes certainly have nice utilities also.</p><p>For those saying its not that big of a deal to lose it...ok then why take it away? </p><p>For those saying its because of the mounts...Stop complaning you can buy the one utility I can provide. </p><p>For those saying its because of bards. Then why didnt they just make them the same. Make it group and not need to recast and you have everyone happy.</p><p>Just the lack of logic or explanaion on why it was removed and hell not even giving us the respec to get our points back is salt on the wound. before you non mystics complain about something being taken away stop and think of the other side of the coin. If you played the class you would see there is plenty of things that can be done to fix us we did not need to be lapped with a downgrade to anything.</p>

Bozidar
03-01-2007, 01:10 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>Since you are so passionate about making mystics less powerful, you either are getting killed by them, or well I guess you are getting killed by them. If you were making them into corpses so much, I would imagine you would rather them have something more to bring to the table for a better challenge than to make them easier to catch and kill.</blockquote><p> LOL.  I don't think i've ever been killed by a mystic.  Seriously.  Post a thread on the pvp forum, and ask for an honest raise of the hand of anyone that got killed by a mystic.  Crickets is what you'll get <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>I was passionate about warden's being the wolf master, and that it seemed bugged that Mystics went faster than our wolf spell.</p><p>It bothered me in pvp because i spent 19p and 400k status on a nightmare for my brigand and shadowknight, and some lvl 13 dood with 5aa points goes faster than me - and thus get away.</p>

Bozidar
03-01-2007, 01:12 PM
<cite>ChildofHate wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>This comment, "<b><u><span style="color: #33ff66">You're a priest, not a druid</span></u></b>.. " had me cracking up.  </p></blockquote> I'm glad my typo made you laugh.  You getting nerfed made me laugh <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

denmom
03-01-2007, 01:18 PM
The Paladin and Shadowknight horse used to be 20% or so run speed.  Many complained about the unfairness of their receiving a free mount with that speed so it was nerfed to the current 10%. I'll toss in my few cents... This thread can go round and round about the whys of the nerfage.  Truth is, no one will ever truly know until a dev steps forward and gives the reason for it.  Until then, it's all speculation, unfortunately.

ChildofHate
03-01-2007, 01:43 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><cite>ChildofHate wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>This comment, "<b><u><span style="color: #33ff66">You're a priest, not a druid</span></u></b>.. " had me cracking up.  </p></blockquote> I'm glad my typo made you laugh.  You getting nerfed made me laugh <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote><p> umm, that's no typo on your part.  that's you putting on display for all to read your ignorance because you don't realize a druid is a type of priest.</p><p>As for me getting nerfed... umm, more of your ignorance on display for the world.  I play a L70 assassin.  Last i checked in the patch notes, assassins weren't even mentioned...  but feel free to continue posting more flatulence.  By the sounds of it, you have enough!</p>

Bozidar
03-01-2007, 02:23 PM
<cite>ChildofHate wrote:</cite><blockquote>umm, that's no typo on your part.  that's you putting on display for all to read your ignorance because you don't realize a druid is a type of priest. <p>As for me getting nerfed... umm, more of your ignorance on display for the world.  I play a L70 assassin.  Last i checked in the patch notes, assassins weren't even mentioned...  but feel free to continue posting more flatulence.  By the sounds of it, you have enough!</p></blockquote><p> Sorry, i assumed that because you seemed so interested you had some interest in this change.  In short, I assumed that you had more than one toon, not just your signature.  In fact with most signatures such as yours i find them too annoying to bother reading.  They try to be all artistic and fancy... which makes me think that you probably spend more time on the boards than you do in the game.  Shall I take my 40 lashes now with a wet noodle.</p><p>I meant shaman, the other sub-class of priest.</p>

SisterTheresa
03-01-2007, 07:21 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>I would imagine it's similar to what happened when 'chanters got "defined" as being the masters of control.  Control abilities of other classes (stuns, stifles, etc.) were nerfed/removed/changed in order to give enchanters thier niche of mob control.</p><p>For some reason, bards consider run speed part of their identity.  In order for them to be the masters of run speed, others' speed buffs had to be reduced.</p></blockquote><p> Odd.  Perhaps my comment might not belong here, but in EQLive SoW was a man part of being a Shaman.  Bards had Selo but I don't think it was as good as SoW.</p><p>So who then has the identity?  Is the SoW the only thing that has been reduced for Mystics?</p>

Cuz
03-02-2007, 12:13 AM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><cite>ChildofHate wrote:</cite><blockquote>umm, that's no typo on your part.  that's you putting on display for all to read your ignorance because you don't realize a druid is a type of priest. <p>As for me getting nerfed... umm, more of your ignorance on display for the world.  I play a L70 assassin.  Last i checked in the patch notes, assassins weren't even mentioned...  but feel free to continue posting more flatulence.  By the sounds of it, you have enough!</p></blockquote><p> Sorry, i assumed that because you seemed so interested you had some interest in this change.  In short, I assumed that you had more than one toon, not just your signature.  In fact with most signatures such as yours i find them too annoying to bother reading.  They try to be all artistic and fancy... which makes me think that you probably spend more time on the boards than you do in the game.  Shall I take my 40 lashes now with a wet noodle.</p><p>I meant shaman, the other sub-class of priest.</p></blockquote> A lot of dumb stuff in this one champ. Honestly I'm happy playing my druid though, little bugger has it all. Heals well enough that no one complains, great DPS, evac / group invise, run spead buff, portals. Can you spot a dev's class?

aureisumus
03-02-2007, 09:31 AM
<p>hi, i think idea that bards get boost speed and no nerf makes more sense  I have a mystic, and a bard, same lvls strangely enuff, i been out game due to pc probs 4 3 months and am rebuilding game machine, so may be out date on this, I also want to say taking speed from quest carpet, isnty complete answer as u need full group to finish quest at lvl it is at, i would at most go for knocking speed to 33%, but i feel soe wouldnt want to do as means setting alll carpets command same may be tricky to just allow quest carpet lower speed?</p><p>As mystic we need run speed to get away from solo encounters when adds come in if any lower we r dead that is reason y i would go for option i mentioned above.</p><p>patria ranger 70 aurei 30 mystic, fiddlesticks 30 dirge, slipsliding 63 nec, snowstorms 63 illusionist, druid 45, to name few of my chars</p>

Rijacki
03-02-2007, 11:57 AM
<cite>SisterTheresa wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>I would imagine it's similar to what happened when 'chanters got "defined" as being the masters of control.  Control abilities of other classes (stuns, stifles, etc.) were nerfed/removed/changed in order to give enchanters thier niche of mob control.</p><p>For some reason, bards consider run speed part of their identity.  In order for them to be the masters of run speed, others' speed buffs had to be reduced.</p></blockquote><p> Odd.  Perhaps my comment might not belong here, but in EQLive SoW was a man part of being a Shaman.  Bards had Selo but I don't think it was as good as SoW.</p><p>So who then has the identity?  Is the SoW the only thing that has been reduced for Mystics?</p></blockquote> In EQ1, the highest spell of Selo's made bards (and their groups) the fastest in the game which was further increased if they were using a drum or even better with a special drum.  Bards even had footraces with the Paladin AA horse and it was a toss-up which was faster.

Rayche
03-03-2007, 06:52 PM
I've got reasons to continue to enjoy playing EQ2. But the SoW nerf falls under the category of reasons to stop playing EQ2. It's a delicate balance between those two...

Devilsbane
03-04-2007, 11:39 AM
Lets hope the Devs find some middle ground between bards and mystics. As long as they leave my personal in/out combat speed of 45% alone (Fury). <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Kallus
03-05-2007, 08:31 PM
For some this change may seem like no big deal yadda yadda.   For others it is quite important.  The AA's put into run speed were not refunded and so are essentially wasted unless the mystic respecs or does indeed wish to continue down the Buffing (augment?) line.   A change to 5% would have been ok and bring Mystics in line with Wardens (who's SoW AA's lasts another 15 min).  On the other hand nerfing Mystics down to Carpet/Horse speed is rather insulting.   If a class has the ability to run faster then a purchased mount so be it.  They probably lose out on damage or other fun things.  One of the reasons i chose mystic over a defiler was the run speed.   I like to get there quick and have fun <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Defilers do a heck of alot more damage, but hey that is ok.  I made the choice based on what the mystic offered.  The simple elegant solution of increasing the bard speed rather then nerfing mystics seems like a better way to go.  Not alot of exciting useful things in the mystic tree with the Curing line nerfed already.  Add this in and i really am less inspired to log into EQ2 and play.  I imagine the Change was made mostly for PvP Servers.    For PvE Servers i see this change hurting the community as a whole.   Less Mystics out there will just make raiding, adventuring for the general populance harder.   PS Well put Gojirax.   As of right now i just dont have the urge to log in and play the mystic. or EQ2 for that matter. - Lhor

da5idblacksun
03-05-2007, 08:52 PM
So you still get a run buff of 45%?? Try being a Templar and not having any run buff or any utility spells to speak of.

Finora
03-05-2007, 11:26 PM
<p>No, we get 40% if we decide to use the 5 aa points it takes to get there instead of putting it somewhere else that could be argued as being far more useful these days. </p><p>Yes, we get a runspeed buff and templars don't, they get that odyssey spell instead. Not as useful I know, but then again the majority of mystic aa (which is what we are talking about here) aren't as useful as the templar ones. Which is also why we are getting a bit bent out of shape over this particular one being nerfed to the extent it was. While other non-bard classes didn't have their speed touched or mentioned. Not that I want the other classes nerfed, just saying it seems particularly strange and quite annoying that only one of the non-bard classes got nerfed below the other speedy classes.</p>

ReturnOfMadness
03-06-2007, 04:03 AM
sigh, on the bards thing, we still got the shaft, we still run as bloody slow as we did before cause we got our aa line nerfed to hell as for the incombat speed, noone bloody cares 12% is NOTHING As for the autoattack, its useless my daggers hit maybe for 10 or 20 points more, yay *sigh* As for the nerf to sow, mystics should have NEVER run that fast to start with, the dev that game them must have brainfarted, mystics just aint supposed to run fast and thats it be happy ya still outrun most people regardless

da5idblacksun
03-06-2007, 02:18 PM
<cite>Finora wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>No, we get 40% if we decide to use the 5 aa points it takes to get there instead of putting it somewhere else that could be argued as being far more useful these days. </p><p>Yes, we get a runspeed buff and templars don't, they get that odyssey spell instead. Not as useful I know, but then again the majority of mystic aa (which is what we are talking about here) aren't as useful as the templar ones. Which is also why we are getting a bit bent out of shape over this particular one being nerfed to the extent it was. While other non-bard classes didn't have their speed touched or mentioned. Not that I want the other classes nerfed, just saying it seems particularly strange and quite annoying that only one of the non-bard classes got nerfed below the other speedy classes.</p></blockquote>Odyssey is almost completely useless.  Even more so now that spell re-timers count down off-line.

Firam
03-07-2007, 01:44 AM
<cite>Gojirax wrote:</cite><blockquote>I've got reasons to continue to enjoy playing EQ2. But the SoW nerf falls under the category of reasons to stop playing EQ2. It's a delicate balance between those two... </blockquote>Stop playing EQ2 because you move, on foot, a few percent slower now?  That sounds a bit extreme.  Actually, that sounds like it probably shouldn't be on your list at all. Both of the classes that I've enjoyed as mains in EQ2, bruiser and brigand, have been hit with some pretty significant nerfs over the last 6-9 months.  Major, combat affecting nerfs.  I didn't think any of them were reasons to quit EQ2.  I realized what they were: a correction due to an imbalance.  Devs don't change game mechanics because they find it amusing, they do it after careful analysis.  It's not always the popular answer in the eyes of the playerbase, especially for the class(es) it affects, but it usually ends up for the better. If you're upset about not being the fastest runner, remember that bards were traditionally ahead in that aspect.  Don't complain. If you're upset about the AA's spent, you get what's essentially a free respec every month now.  Don't complain. If you're upset about the 50% run speed being gone, there's still a mount waiting somewhere for you.  Don't complain. If you're upset about the fact that it'll cost you some platinum for that mount, then enjoy your still-fast "free" 40% buff. Don't complain. If you're taking serious offense to the loss of a bit of runspeed because you happened to previously have the fastest run speed buff in the game, then perhaps you're identifying with your class incorrectly.  Do you really put that much stock in your class's ability to increase someone's run speed?  How about your wards, buffs, heals, your spells that actually matter for something?  Try concentrating on those, lest you cry out too loudly for the wrong cause and redirect SOE's "rebalancing" attention elsewhere.

Jeridor
03-07-2007, 02:06 AM
Those who are saying that this is a trivial matter, that it isn't big enough to be talked about, etc., please consider two points: 1. Any topic is worthwhile for those who have interest in it. There is no such thing as a worthless conversation. It might be worthless to you personally, to which I have to wonder why you'd waste your time both reading and replying to it. 2. Keep in mind Mystics have an AA to improve SoW speed. What is the point of this AA if it is so inferior to other options available to that Mystic? I think the issue isn't just "should this be 'nerfed'?", I think it's also "if this is the new AA, should it be an AA at all?" Perhaps the SoW buff is no longer justifyable as an AA and the entire option should be replaced with something else if SOE feels the prior option was too powerful. And as a general comment to SOE, I'd appreciate you more as a company/entity if you commented on high profile issues like this (whether an individual thinks this is a big deal or not, it HAS had a lot of posts). Even if the comment wasn't one I agreed with, I'd respect that the comment itself was given. I don't think it's realistic or beneficial for SOE to get locked into a debate with players, but one response as to the reason this change was made would be a postive step.

ScurvyTRatt
03-09-2007, 01:11 PM
<p>I am a little suprised to see this is still on the front page. And still without any sort of development response. <img src="/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Making an AA that goes no faster than the freebie carpet is a bad idea. It might be good, if its been nerfed to near uselessness to at least replace it with something better. How about a 40% increase to wards?</p>

Bozidar
03-12-2007, 09:54 AM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>I am a little suprised to see this is still on the front page. And still without any sort of development response. <img src="/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Making an AA that goes no faster than the freebie carpet is a bad idea. It might be good, if its been nerfed to near uselessness to at least replace it with something better. How about a 40% increase to wards?</p></blockquote> carpets don't work in duneons and don't give you falling damage reduction

pinkchicky
03-16-2007, 03:07 AM
<img src="/smilies/c30b4198e0907b23b8246bdd52aa1c3c.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />