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View Full Version : Let's make the game more fun.


Zarkuu
02-20-2007, 02:31 PM
<p>I guess I have finally decided to find some other way to occupy my time. After killing 30 heroics trying to get the type of rumbler I needed to spawn in lavastorm for an HQ and having only one spawn which of course 'did not find any quests items' , I think the annoyances now outweigh the fun.</p><p>I wonder who is giving you the advice on how to build a time sink. Apparently they don't have a lot of insight into human nature. You developed the jackpot enticement well which results in the addiction to the game, but you can also, with enough punishment, break the addiction.</p><p>Your best time sink is To Speak as a Dragon quest. Making it a prerequisite to many other quests was a great idea. While you will hear a lot of  'oh no' I have to do that one, you don't create the annoyance of scarce mobs who don't contain quest items 50 times in a row. Lots of running around and prerequisites to finish quests are the best way to add time sinks and not anger the player. It can be time consuming and not the most enjoyable aspect of quest completion, but at least when you go to get a rune there is one there when you finally find the right spot.</p><p>Another huge annoyance is the harvesting of items like the crystals in the bathtubs in PoA that must be done by each player in a group. You are building in resentments among the group and making doing quests in a full group a hinderance to completion.</p><p>More and more people are leaving the game at as they reach the point that a full group is a requisite to quest completion but a hinderance to it at the same time. Fabled out raiders might be able to do the quests with less than a full group but then, that thins the herd even more.  A full group should all get the update at the same time so they can continue on and have fun questing not wear out and lose momentum.</p><p>Those were just a couple examples of annoyances that the game is rampant with and it's the day to day aggravations that kill the desire to log on.</p>

Allisia
02-20-2007, 02:45 PM
They've removed or eased quest bottlenecks for some of the older quests already. I recently helped a friend get the crystals for the "An Eye for Power" quest. When I retrieved the crystals in the summer of '05 they would disappear after one person updated their quest.  Now up to six people can get an update from each crystal before they despawn. Last night my wife and I were doing the "Delving Into Darkness" quest in Living Tombs. Even though each person has to get each of ten named staves separately, they respawn very quickly and are highly visible. This makes you move about the area where they spawn, killing mobs as you go, in order to get the staves. Due to how they designed it, it doesn't feel like a chore and you feel like you're accomplishing something while you're overcoming the time sink. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

bensilvi
02-20-2007, 03:04 PM
<cite>Zarkuu wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I guess I have finally decided to find some other way to occupy my time. After killing 30 heroics trying to get the type of rumbler I needed to spawn in lavastorm for an HQ and having only one spawn which of course 'did not find any quests items' , I think the annoyances now outweigh the fun.</p><p>I wonder who is giving you the advice on how to build a time sink. Apparently they don't have a lot of insight into human nature. You developed the jackpot enticement well which results in the addiction to the game, but you can also, with enough punishment, break the addiction.</p><p>Your best time sink is To Speak as a Dragon quest. Making it a prerequisite to many other quests was a great idea. While you will hear a lot of  'oh no' I have to do that one, you don't create the annoyance of scarce mobs who don't contain quest items 50 times in a row. Lots of running around and prerequisites to finish quests are the best way to add time sinks and not anger the player. It can be time consuming and not the most enjoyable aspect of quest completion, but at least when you go to get a rune there is one there when you finally find the right spot.</p><p>Another huge annoyance is the harvesting of items like the crystals in the bathtubs in PoA that must be done by each player in a group. You are building in resentments among the group and making doing quests in a full group a hinderance to completion.</p><p>More and more people are leaving the game at as they reach the point that a full group is a requisite to quest completion but a hinderance to it at the same time. Fabled out raiders might be able to do the quests with less than a full group but then, that thins the herd even more.  A full group should all get the update at the same time so they can continue on and have fun questing not wear out and lose momentum.</p><p>Those were just a couple examples of annoyances that the game is rampant with and it's the day to day aggravations that kill the desire to log on.</p></blockquote> Boy I just did this yesturday. Camped the Bassalt rumblers for like 3 hours and got throughly annoyed. HQs should be more enjoyable but the bulk are draining once they start. I for one dont think I will go back for that lava fun.

Quda
02-20-2007, 04:55 PM
<p>You mean you actually do quests?</p><p>I learned long ago that the quests are just a waste of time.  Doing a level 35 quest, and get a level 20 pile of junk.  I pick up all the quets aviable, and grind, if I get updates on the quests, and complete quests while I am there, good. When I outlevel the area, I delete those quests and go the next.</p><p>I noticed that a lot of times mobs that are required for quests, get replaced, changed, moved, and even deleted without a thought about the quests that may be attached to them.  There is just no attention to detail.</p><p>As far as HQ's, wait until you outlevel them, and can solo them easy, then when your bored, and have nothing to do, revisit them.</p>

Ganlu
02-20-2007, 04:58 PM
<cite>Quda wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>You mean you actually do quests?</p><p>I learned long ago that the quests are just a waste of time.  Doing a level 35 quest, and get a level 20 pile of junk.  I pick up all the quets aviable, and grind, if I get updates on the quests, and complete quests while I am there, good. When I outlevel the area, I delete those quests and go the next.</p><p>I noticed that a lot of times mobs that are required for quests, get replaced, changed, moved, and even deleted without a thought about the quests that may be attached to them.  There is just no attention to detail.</p><p>As far as HQ's, wait until you outlevel them, and can solo them easy, then when your bored, and have nothing to do, revisit them.</p></blockquote> With AAs in the game, quests are not at all a waste of time.  I just dinged 43 on an alt and hit 50 AA at the same time, because I've levelled him up virtually completely on quests.  I do agree that without the AA reward, many quests in the "old world" zones were poorly designed or required rare spawns for updates.

Maryk
02-20-2007, 06:02 PM
<p>I empathize with you.  I don't have unlimited time to play...I play when I can...which makes it difficult to hook up with groups...and therefore...I find myself soloing more than not.</p><p>Even as a 63 templar that's tough...so I focus on quests...best way for me to make XP.  Last night I tiptoed into the Bonemire...orange ravasect killed me so fast it wasn't funny.  Orange means he's a couple levels above me.  OK...no sweat.</p><p>Yet...I fight something white (even with me) or blue (a level or two below me) I almost always win unless I get gang-banged...(although I was on Gazer Island took on five blues at the same time.)  So...I know how to fight and when to run. </p><p>Problem is...I get practically no XP gain soloing....whether its white...or blue...or green.  Very little almost negligible.  I refuse to mindlessly kill, kill, kill, kill, kill...clicky...clicky...clicky....kill 500 gazer eyeballs.  To me that's no fun.  I don't enjoy that.   So I do quests.</p><p>If they make quests undo-able the higher you get...(kill...kill...kill...clicky...clicky...etc) ...the "Drudgery Factor" increases.  </p><p>I don't want things handed to me on a silver platter...there's some joy and satisfaction in accomplishing things...but someone needs to pay attention to the Drudgery Factor.</p>

Dasein
02-20-2007, 09:24 PM
I've noticed that the random updates from mobs tend to be streaky, and back-loaded, as if there's an invisible counter which increases the probability of getting an update the more mobs you kill. For example, we were working on Burning the Bearskin Rug quest in Kaladim, and we would kill a number of groups of mobs without getting any updates, then have almost every mob update, such that we got about 75% of the updates after killing a number of groups without any updates. Overall, EQ2 has one of the more developed quest systems, and the devs seem to have a number of tools available to them to develop quests. Because of this, I am surprised to see very annoying quests slip by - things like Eye farming or the Cloak of Flames page farming.  With so many better options available, it is disappointing to see the devs resort to such unappealing and unfun designs.

Norrsken
02-21-2007, 06:49 AM
<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>I've noticed that the random updates from mobs tend to be streaky, and back-loaded, as if there's an invisible counter which increases the probability of getting an update the more mobs you kill. For example, we were working on Burning the Bearskin Rug quest in Kaladim, and we would kill a number of groups of mobs without getting any updates, then have almost every mob update, such that we got about 75% of the updates after killing a number of groups without any updates. Overall, EQ2 has one of the more developed quest systems, and the devs seem to have a number of tools available to them to develop quests. Because of this, I am surprised to see very annoying quests slip by - things like Eye farming or the Cloak of Flames page farming.  With so many better options available, it is disappointing to see the devs resort to such unappealing and unfun designs. </blockquote> I'd guess they have some kind of streakbreaker code for that craptastic RNG they use. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

steelbadger
02-21-2007, 07:47 AM
I think those really tedious quests are something of a peace offering to the people who enjoy camping mobs for hours on end, for whatever reason.

stgninja
02-21-2007, 09:55 AM
If you think quests in EQ2 are hard try EQ Live.

Ogrepalad
02-21-2007, 11:35 AM
<p>BY and large EQ2 is so much less tedious than EQ it is not even funny.</p><p> Who here recalls camping out SSOY or the SMR in lower guik. Who did an epic quest, wait make that about 30 epic quests (for the better part of your guild)--NONE of which steps could be done for more than one person at a time.</p><p> Every once in a while I still run into some good old fashioned camping, and the HQ's have some of them. The named mobs to get the gems in lavastorm are an example--that is one of relatively few HQ I have not yet finished because I have not yet summoned up the time to go and grind through the greys for the 8 kinds of stone the goblin wants--this was after I literally camped his fish for several hours (to bait the hungry goblin, who in turn was snake-bait).</p><p> However, they have brought in improvements since the beginning of the game. Originally the starter for the screaming mace--which was one of the best weapons in the game at T5--was a rare dropped off a named outside CT. Now the starter drops every time.  So SOE is working on it, they just need to keep working on it, and put in some sort of means to reduce camping further.</p>

Pins
02-21-2007, 11:43 AM
Ogrepaladin: The starter for Screaming Mace was always a guarenteed drop off the named outside CT.  In fact, it still is.  The only difference is now the named is not as rare.

Leafbringer
02-21-2007, 12:54 PM
<cite>Quda wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>You mean you actually do quests?</p><p>I learned long ago that the quests are just a waste of time.  Doing a level 35 quest, and get a level 20 pile of junk.  I pick up all the quets aviable, and grind, if I get updates on the quests, and complete quests while I am there, good. When I outlevel the area, I delete those quests and go the next.</p><p>I noticed that a lot of times mobs that are required for quests, get replaced, changed, moved, and even deleted without a thought about the quests that may be attached to them.  There is just no attention to detail.</p><p>As far as HQ's, wait until you outlevel them, and can solo them easy, then when your bored, and have nothing to do, revisit them.</p></blockquote>If you think quests are a waste of time, you are really playing the wrong game.

Norrsken
02-21-2007, 01:58 PM
<cite>Pinski wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ogrepaladin: The starter for Screaming Mace was always a guarenteed drop off the named outside CT.  In fact, it still is.  The only difference is now the named is not as rare.</blockquote>And you could always pop the named, kill ONLY the named, run the rest off and wait 5 mins for the encounbter to repop with the named. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Sure, it'd be 30 minutes to get the item for your whole group, but its still not too bad.