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View Full Version : Infamy is out of whack.


ZachBos
02-20-2007, 12:55 PM
<p>How does a solo player getting killed by a group of 5 decrease infamy?  This wasn't a challenge for them, nor did I have a title to begin with.  Considering I lost infamy, that must mean that they gained infamy.  Gaining infamy for killing someone 1v5?  Something seems out of whack here.</p><p>They won the fight fair and square, and rightfully so---it was 5v1, but I stayed and fought till the end.  I think the way infamy is won and lost needs to be a little more complex than it is now.  This didn't really affect me since I don't have a title, but I would hate to be someone with a high title and get ganked by a full group and lose infamy for it.  Infamy should be won or lost by something deemed a little more fair than ganking or getting ganked.  I know there is nothing fair about PVP, as it's kill or be killed, but infamy needs some looking at</p><p>P.S.  I don't care that they killed me---I was out gathering shinies as usual, and I expect to get killed.  What bothered me (and always has) was seeing the message that infamy was transferred and they were rewarded for ganking.  This game should not reward cowardess.</p>

Radigazt
02-20-2007, 12:59 PM
<p>I agree, this infamy system is definitely not the best.  <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I can't tell you how many times my Brig would kill someone 2 titles above me and not get any infamy.  The Op has a very good point, here are some things that seem out of whack:</p><p>1) If you manage to kill someone of a higher title than you, you deserve infamy.  2) If you kill an orange or red con then you should get more infamy than killing a green con. 3) If you are solo and get jumped by a group of 6 people ... they shouldn't take infamy from you. 4) The infamy system shouldn't promote avoiding PvP.  As it is, the penalty for dying is so high that the first concern of most PvP'ers is to not-die, when it should actually be a system that encourages seeking out PvP.  </p>

Bozidar
02-20-2007, 01:00 PM
<cite>ZachBos wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>How does a solo player getting killed by a group of 5 decrease infamy?  This wasn't a challenge for them, nor did I have a title to begin with.  Considering I lost infamy, that must mean that they gained infamy.  Gaining infamy for killing someone 1v5?  Something seems out of whack here.</p><p>They won the fight fair and square, and rightfully so---it was 5v1, but I stayed and fought till the end.  I think the way infamy is won and lost needs to be a little more complex than it is now.  This didn't really affect me since I don't have a title, but I would hate to be someone with a high title and get ganked by a full group and lose infamy for it.  Infamy should be won or lost by something deemed a little more fair than ganking or getting ganked.  I know there is nothing fair about PVP, as it's kill or be killed, but infamy needs some looking at</p><p>P.S.  I don't care that they killed me---I was out gathering shinies as usual, and I expect to get killed.  What bothered me (and always has) was seeing the message that infamy was transferred and they were rewarded for ganking.  This game should not reward cowardess.</p></blockquote><p>you got killed... they get infamy for it if they have a player low/high enough to be in your range.</p><p>if you don't want them to get infamy, get better at getting away, or get a group of your own</p><p>solo pvp is nice.. but this is a group game. </p>

Bozidar
02-20-2007, 01:02 PM
<p>if it makes you feel any better, they split your infamy amonst them.  They don't all get a full hit.</p><p>had someone the other day telling me in group that you lose way more from an infamy death than you get from your kills.</p><p>had to school them -- you get just as much as you lose, but when you're grouped you're splitting it.  So if you solo you get infamy faster/easier.  But when you solo you die easier too <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

ZachBos
02-20-2007, 01:04 PM
<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ZachBos wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>How does a solo player getting killed by a group of 5 decrease infamy?  This wasn't a challenge for them, nor did I have a title to begin with.  Considering I lost infamy, that must mean that they gained infamy.  Gaining infamy for killing someone 1v5?  Something seems out of whack here.</p><p>They won the fight fair and square, and rightfully so---it was 5v1, but I stayed and fought till the end.  I think the way infamy is won and lost needs to be a little more complex than it is now.  This didn't really affect me since I don't have a title, but I would hate to be someone with a high title and get ganked by a full group and lose infamy for it.  Infamy should be won or lost by something deemed a little more fair than ganking or getting ganked.  I know there is nothing fair about PVP, as it's kill or be killed, but infamy needs some looking at</p><p>P.S.  I don't care that they killed me---I was out gathering shinies as usual, and I expect to get killed.  What bothered me (and always has) was seeing the message that infamy was transferred and they were rewarded for ganking.  This game should not reward cowardess.</p></blockquote><p>you got killed... they get infamy for it if they have a player low/high enough to be in your range.</p><p>if you don't want them to get infamy, get better at getting away, or get a group of your own</p><p>solo pvp is nice.. but this is a group game. </p></blockquote>Well, I FD but they wouldn't go away....

Bozidar
02-20-2007, 01:08 PM
<cite>ZachBos wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well, I FD but they wouldn't go away.... </blockquote><p> You a monk or bruiser?  You should be able to train them through all kinds of stuff.  You have great avoidance, and 360 degrees at that.  If you can't train them into aggro and FD them there, then at least you can stay out of combat and (with a spirit of the wolf totem at least, if not a horse) get them to drain power as they chase you.</p><p>I gotta get me a bruiser so i can pull this crap all the time <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

ZachBos
02-20-2007, 01:21 PM
<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ZachBos wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well, I FD but they wouldn't go away.... </blockquote><p> You a monk or bruiser?  You should be able to train them through all kinds of stuff.  You have great avoidance, and 360 degrees at that.  If you can't train them into aggro and FD them there, then at least you can stay out of combat and (with a spirit of the wolf totem at least, if not a horse) get them to drain power as they chase you.</p><p>I gotta get me a bruiser so i can pull this crap all the time <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />S</p></blockquote><p>I'm an SK.  I suppose I could have run or tried to escape, but it would have been difficult considering they had several druids.  Anyway, I don't care about the dying---just about the transfer of infamy to lamers and gank squads.  I actually prefer to stay and fight to see who I can take with me to the grave, unfortunately with multiple healers on their side, I took nobody with me.</p><p> One more thing.  Since this is my harvesting toon and I die often, I'm pretty sure that I have no more infamy to give---I'm all out. </p>

Bozidar
02-20-2007, 01:26 PM
ZachBos wrote: <blockquote><p>I'm an SK.  I suppose I could have run or tried to escape, but it would have been difficult considering they had several druids.  Anyway, I don't care about the dying---just about the transfer of infamy to lamers and gank squads.  I actually prefer to stay and fight to see who I can take with me to the grave, unfortunately with multiple healers on their side, I took nobody with me.</p><p> One more thing.  Since this is my harvesting toon and I die often, I'm pretty sure that I have no more infamy to give---I'm all out. </p></blockquote><p> Ah.. sk.. maybe you should have picked a better harvesting toon <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Scouts, or a bruiser are nice..</p><p>On my farmer it's not about how much infamy i have or dying.. it's about giving it away.</p><p>I'll NEVER let them kill me if i can get away.  They get NOTHING if i can avoid giving it to them.</p><p>With an SK though.. yeah, you're kinda sunk. </p>

Eluzay
02-20-2007, 01:50 PM
<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ZachBos wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>How does a solo player getting killed by a group of 5 decrease infamy?  This wasn't a challenge for them, nor did I have a title to begin with.  Considering I lost infamy, that must mean that they gained infamy.  Gaining infamy for killing someone 1v5?  Something seems out of whack here.</p><p>They won the fight fair and square, and rightfully so---it was 5v1, but I stayed and fought till the end.  I think the way infamy is won and lost needs to be a little more complex than it is now.  This didn't really affect me since I don't have a title, but I would hate to be someone with a high title and get ganked by a full group and lose infamy for it.  Infamy should be won or lost by something deemed a little more fair than ganking or getting ganked.  I know there is nothing fair about PVP, as it's kill or be killed, but infamy needs some looking at</p><p>P.S.  I don't care that they killed me---I was out gathering shinies as usual, and I expect to get killed.  What bothered me (and always has) was seeing the message that infamy was transferred and they were rewarded for ganking.  This game should not reward cowardess.</p></blockquote><p>you got killed... they get infamy for it if they have a player low/high enough to be in your range.</p><p>if you don't want them to get infamy, get better at getting away, or get a group of your own</p><p>solo pvp is nice.. <span style="font-size: x-large">but this is a group game</span>. </p></blockquote>see here is one of the silliest things people say about pvp this game was not designed for pvp, it was designed for pve, and it was designed for raid pve. if you are going to start with the "group game" argument, its only logical conclusion is "this is a pve game"... but this is the pvp boards, and there are pvp servers, so following this logic will just make some care bear on a bluebie server giggle. pvp servers in eq2 are a completely different game than the pve servers, so please dont use these lame pve one liners in order to try to back up your argument.... fyi if they removed fame/infamy and titles completely from the game the pvp quality would increase 10 fold, removing tokens, pvp gear and status gear from the game would improve the pvp by 20x, making the server freeforall would actually be very bad for about a month when everyone ganks everyone but after it settled down it would increase the pvp fun by 100x ... (of course in the ffa version everyone can play with everyone in a group). incentives in pvp are incentives to run, incentives to gank... not incentives to have fun.

Bozidar
02-20-2007, 02:43 PM
<cite>Eluzay wrote:</cite><blockquote>see here is one of the silliest things people say about pvp this game was not designed for pvp, it was designed for pve, and it was designed for raid pve. if you are going to start with the "group game" argument, its only logical conclusion is "this is a pve game"... but this is the pvp boards, and there are pvp servers, so following this logic will just make some care bear on a bluebie server giggle. pvp servers in eq2 are a completely different game than the pve servers, so please dont use these lame pve one liners in order to try to back up your argument.... fyi if they removed fame/infamy and titles completely from the game the pvp quality would increase 10 fold, removing tokens, pvp gear and status gear from the game would improve the pvp by 20x, making the server freeforall would actually be very bad for about a month when everyone ganks everyone but after it settled down it would increase the pvp fun by 100x ... (of course in the ffa version everyone can play with everyone in a group). incentives in pvp are incentives to run, incentives to gank... not incentives to have fun. </blockquote><p> I don't need designers to tell me what the game is meant for.  I have numerous group buffs on all my toons that tell me that said toon is designed to be in a group, and add strength to that group.  My combat arts and spells all have a "pvp" button so i can see what their pvp rules are.  Kinda lets me know that this is a PvP game.</p><p>It's a group game.</p><p>I agree with you about infamy and tokens, but i love pvp gear <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>edit ; ffa would be dumb, imo</p>

Eluzay
02-20-2007, 03:03 PM
<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Eluzay wrote:</cite><blockquote>see here is one of the silliest things people say about pvp this game was not designed for pvp, it was designed for pve, and it was designed for raid pve. if you are going to start with the "group game" argument, its only logical conclusion is "this is a pve game"... but this is the pvp boards, and there are pvp servers, so following this logic will just make some care bear on a bluebie server giggle. pvp servers in eq2 are a completely different game than the pve servers, so please dont use these lame pve one liners in order to try to back up your argument.... fyi if they removed fame/infamy and titles completely from the game the pvp quality would increase 10 fold, removing tokens, pvp gear and status gear from the game would improve the pvp by 20x, making the server freeforall would actually be very bad for about a month when everyone ganks everyone but after it settled down it would increase the pvp fun by 100x ... (of course in the ffa version everyone can play with everyone in a group). incentives in pvp are incentives to run, incentives to gank... not incentives to have fun. </blockquote><p> I don't need designers to tell me what the game is meant for.  I have numerous group buffs on all my toons that tell me that said toon is designed to be in a group, and add strength to that group.  My combat arts and spells all have a "pvp" button so i can see what their pvp rules are.  Kinda lets me know that this is a PvP game.</p><p>It's a group game.</p><p>I agree with you about infamy and tokens, but i love pvp gear <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>edit ; ffa would be dumb, imo</p></blockquote>and i could argue that the assasin does not have group buffs, and the game was designed for pve, as I said. either way whatever, you telling someone how to play their game is about as offensive as me telling you how to play yours if you get my meaning. and ffa is actually much better than RvR ... you will find no more loyal gamers than UO gamers for a reason.  The game should not restrict your play, people that never played a good ffa game just dont understand the dynamic.  It is player made content and factions, rather than the character select screen deciding who your friend is for you. no biggy though, a lot of people have not experienced it, that is why i say it would be chaos for a few months til people realized that kos everyone means you will never find a group. I used to hunt the gankers in uo, the "murderers" and it was a blast. People had to form communities to survive, it was about as close to virtual reality as anything I have ever seen (minus the poor graphics)

Badaxe Ba
02-20-2007, 03:08 PM
<p>Titles are a crutch.</p><p>Groups are a crutch.</p><p>Come solo if ya got the guts.</p>

Sebastien
02-20-2007, 03:20 PM
<cite>Radigazt wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I agree, this infamy system is definitely not the best.  <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I can't tell you how many times my Brig would kill someone 2 titles above me and not get any infamy.  The Op has a very good point, here are some things that seem out of whack:</p><p>1) If you manage to kill someone of a higher title than you, you deserve infamy.  2) If you kill an orange or red con then you should get more infamy than killing a green con. 3) If you are solo and get jumped by a group of 6 people ... they shouldn't take infamy from you. <span style="font-size: small"><b><span style="font-size: x-small">4) The infamy system shouldn't promote avoiding PvP.  As it is, the penalty for dying is so high that the first concern of most PvP'ers is to not-die, when it should actually be a system that encourages seeking out PvP.</span></b>  </span></p></blockquote><p> This last point is certainly worth emphasizing.  PvP games generally are worse-off if they inflict a steep consequence for failure.  The result of such approah is usually that people will not engage in PvP unless the odds are heavily stacked in their favor.  While this might be realistic, it doesn't actually make a game more fun.</p><p>Instead, rewards must focus on positive results, and tread very lightly when it comes to penalizing unfavorable results.</p><p>Since I've little direct experience with this game's PvP, I can't offer specific suggestions.  But it certainly sounds like a typical PvP-ruleset mistake.  I've said before, and don't mean to sound bitter, that developers of a PvP game really need to play other pvp mmorpgs.  The reason I say this is that <u>the same mistakes appear to be made in every single pvp mmorpg</u>.  They are all eventually fixed, but it strikes me as somewhat obtuse that developers do not study "best-practice" of their peers before plunging into these things.</p>

Metal_Starz
02-20-2007, 03:25 PM
 Title system is strange in a way, but I like it the way it is. The only thing I would change about it is that you could get infamy off of anyone and depending on their title is the amount of points you would be rewarded for the kill.

Bozidar
02-20-2007, 03:38 PM
<cite>Eluzay wrote:</cite><blockquote>and i could argue that the assasin does not have group buffs, and the game was designed for pve, as I said. either way whatever, you telling someone how to play their game is about as offensive as me telling you how to play yours if you get my meaning. and ffa is actually much better than RvR ... you will find no more loyal gamers than UO gamers for a reason.  The game should not restrict your play, people that never played a good ffa game just dont understand the dynamic.  It is player made content and factions, rather than the character select screen deciding who your friend is for you. no biggy though, a lot of people have not experienced it, that is why i say it would be chaos for a few months til people realized that kos everyone means you will never find a group. I used to hunt the gankers in uo, the "murderers" and it was a blast. People had to form communities to survive, it was about as close to virtual reality as anything I have ever seen (minus the poor graphics) </blockquote><p> Assassins do get group buffs <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  just not as much as other classes.</p><p>They came here with a problem, i'm making suggestions.  I didn't start harassing the guy in game with /tells about how he's doing it all wrong.</p><p>And no.. ffa would be dumb.  I think you just think it's a cool idea because you've got a lvl 70 guy and you think it'd be neat to force everyone else to level up.  Sorry, we don't want to yet.  I don't need anything closer to virutal reality, i have a close knit group of players and I enjoy the game the way it is.  I have an actual reality for things to be real in.</p>

Eluzay
02-21-2007, 10:27 AM
<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Eluzay wrote:</cite><blockquote>and i could argue that the assasin does not have group buffs, and the game was designed for pve, as I said. either way whatever, you telling someone how to play their game is about as offensive as me telling you how to play yours if you get my meaning. and ffa is actually much better than RvR ... you will find no more loyal gamers than UO gamers for a reason.  The game should not restrict your play, people that never played a good ffa game just dont understand the dynamic.  It is player made content and factions, rather than the character select screen deciding who your friend is for you. no biggy though, a lot of people have not experienced it, that is why i say it would be chaos for a few months til people realized that kos everyone means you will never find a group. I used to hunt the gankers in uo, the "murderers" and it was a blast. People had to form communities to survive, it was about as close to virtual reality as anything I have ever seen (minus the poor graphics) </blockquote><p> Assassins do get group buffs <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  just not as much as other classes.</p><p>They came here with a problem, i'm making suggestions.  I didn't start harassing the guy in game with /tells about how he's doing it all wrong.</p><p>And no.. ffa would be dumb.  I think you just think it's a cool idea because you've got a lvl 70 guy and you think it'd be neat to force everyone else to level up.  Sorry, we don't want to yet.  I don't need anything closer to virutal reality, i have a close knit group of players and I enjoy the game the way it is.  I have an actual reality for things to be real in.</p></blockquote>no actually i think it would be a good thing because of my experience in other games, but it would get rid of the locking issues we see that is for sure. I am glad you have a close knit group that like it the way that it is... if you dont realize that the game will be changed constantly until you are unhappy no matter what then you are naieve. and in your actual reality can you kill people and die and then just start over? gimme a break.

Bozidar
02-21-2007, 10:59 AM
<cite>Eluzay wrote:</cite><blockquote>no actually i think it would be a good thing because of my experience in other games, but it would get rid of the locking issues we see that is for sure. I am glad you have a close knit group that like it the way that it is... if you dont realize that the game will be changed constantly until you are unhappy no matter what then you are naieve. and in your actual reality can you kill people and die and then just start over? gimme a break. </blockquote><p> See, that's my point -- you see locking as a huge issue, i see it as a moderate one at most.  its not the locking really, it's the GRIEFING that's the problem.  Encourage people to level up by increasing the starting pvp faction.  Create penalties for griefing someone.  Help the community to help the newbies, create more guides on a pvp server to show newbies the ways of avoiding the gank.</p><p>PvP is what it is.  people will always find ways around the ruleset and get at those easiest to kill.  FFA will just make them doing it sooo much easier.</p><p>And yes, the game has been, and will continue to change constantly.  Maybe at some point i won't like it and i'll move on, so be it.  So far, i'm adapting and enjoying.  FFA would make me not.. and most others would leave.</p><p>No, i can't kill people (and get away with it), die, and then start over.  That's why i'm comfortable with my games un-reality <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Eluzay
02-21-2007, 12:12 PM
<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Eluzay wrote:</cite><blockquote>no actually i think it would be a good thing because of my experience in other games, but it would get rid of the locking issues we see that is for sure. I am glad you have a close knit group that like it the way that it is... if you dont realize that the game will be changed constantly until you are unhappy no matter what then you are naieve. and in your actual reality can you kill people and die and then just start over? gimme a break. </blockquote><p> See, that's my point -- you see locking as a huge issue, i see it as a moderate one at most.  its not the locking really, it's the GRIEFING that's the problem.  Encourage people to level up by increasing the starting pvp faction.  Create penalties for griefing someone.  Help the community to help the newbies, create more guides on a pvp server to show newbies the ways of avoiding the gank.</p><p>PvP is what it is.  people will always find ways around the ruleset and get at those easiest to kill.  FFA will just make them doing it sooo much easier.</p><p>And yes, the game has been, and will continue to change constantly.  Maybe at some point i won't like it and i'll move on, so be it.  So far, i'm adapting and enjoying.  FFA would make me not.. and most others would leave.</p><p>No, i can't kill people (and get away with it), die, and then start over.  That's why i'm comfortable with my games un-reality <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p></blockquote>you need to learn to redefine virtual reality then as for level locking, you will not ever get rid of the griefing problem, they gave the mechanics to grief and human nature is to take the easy rout.  The ruleset for pvp will change over time and if the game was ffa some of the level lockers would leave, some would level up, and there would be less low level griefing so you would have more new players leveling up. you have never played a good ffa game so you wouldnt understand how it works, I could come out as a 70 and kill the griefers allowing the noobs to level up. to say pvp is what it is makes me laugh. PVP has changed COMPLETELY over the past few months, so pvp is not what it is... it is what theyw ill make it. I would rather see all the low level lockers leave and have the population go up with new players than leave it like it is.

Zexxii
02-21-2007, 12:30 PM
<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote> <p>  its not the locking really, it's the GRIEFING that's the problem.  </p></blockquote><p> amen, for all tiers </p><p>police griefing amongst your peers</p><p>one trouble, so and so didn't get credit, they're here now, that person is right over there, kill him again or no?</p><p>i squirm every time when this happens</p>

Eluzay
02-21-2007, 12:49 PM
<cite>Zexxii wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote> <p>  its not the locking really, it's the GRIEFING that's the problem.  </p></blockquote><p> amen, for all tiers </p><p>police griefing amongst your peers</p><p>one trouble, so and so didn't get credit, they're here now, that person is right over there, kill him again or no?</p><p>i squirm every time when this happens</p></blockquote>on a ffa server i would kill anyone griefing... there is no us or them on ffa, RvR does not work as well, you have to watch people grief even if you wish you could do something you cant.

Kurindor_Mythecnea
02-21-2007, 04:12 PM
SIMPLE SOLUTION: Remove infamy attrition based upon the power of forces. As it stands, in its peak of form, a group will not lose infamy to anything past a x 2 raid unless they form a x 2 raid and beyond. Just make it so solos don't lose infamy from more than half a group until they begin to duo or form a group.

songsta
02-21-2007, 04:30 PM
i agree with alot of these ideas, solos shouldnt lose fame or  w/e to grp in certain INSTANCES think of it this way in TS theres a say 35 bruiser/monk and he keeps killing a 27...it would if teh bruiser was well equipped take a few of them to beat him. in this case i believe that they should recieve a reward. Theres another instance. an 18 is ganking greens in ant/cl theres no one that can beat him solo that will acctually come out and try. Thus needing a grp to take him down. Thus they should recieve a reward

Elfin Hoi Man
02-21-2007, 04:36 PM
<cite>Zexxii wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote> <p>  its not the locking really, it's the GRIEFING that's the problem.  </p></blockquote><p> amen, for all tiers </p><p>police griefing amongst your peers</p><p>one trouble, so and so didn't get credit, they're here now, that person is right over there, kill him again or no?</p><p>i squirm every time when this happens</p></blockquote><span style="color: #ff9900">When/if a free-for-all ruleset is released. We'll see the end of griefing.</span>

Wytie
02-21-2007, 05:20 PM
Elfin Hoi Man wrote: <blockquote><cite>Zexxii wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote> <p>  its not the locking really, it's the GRIEFING that's the problem.  </p></blockquote><p> amen, for all tiers </p><p>police griefing amongst your peers</p><p>one trouble, so and so didn't get credit, they're here now, that person is right over there, kill him again or no?</p><p>i squirm every time when this happens</p></blockquote><span style="color: #ff9900">When/if a free-for-all ruleset is released. We'll see the end of griefing.</span> </blockquote><p> What do you mean? </p><p>Theres no griefing in EQ2.......  With the way imunity and zoning and camping works your only griefed if you allow youself to be....</p><p>now.... its just a mear inconveance not really griefing IMO</p>

Killque
02-21-2007, 06:13 PM
<p>(Quote: When/if a free-for-all ruleset is released. We'll see the end of griefing.) </p><p>How so?? </p><p>Has anyone who wants level locking gone exiled? (Im sure someone will say yes). </p><p>I have never exiled, but I have as a FP helped a TON of guildies and other FP'ers Exile over and if you want to know what griefing is, try being an exile for the day. I have ran side by side with a low level exile Spaming Guildie Exiling over to Freeport please do not engage, and what happens 9 out of 10 times? I bet you can guess... </p><p>A FFA server will not "cure" this "Griefing" problem. Infact, I dont think its a problem at all. If your being griefed, its your own [I cannot control my vocabulary] falt imo. </p><p>What people need to realize, is this is a game. There is no written rule that says you need to get to level 70. That is not nessicarily the point of the game.</p><p>The game exists for it to be explored. Why cant people just accept that.</p><p> Griefing is not an issue IMO. No matter what system you put in place griefing will always take place. There are just people who are like that. </p><p>AHH THESE BEES, they keep stinging me. This is wrong! Ahh! STOP!</p><p> Seriously, you CAN avoid being griefed... Strange, I never get griefed... not on any of my toons. </p>

Cloakentuna
02-21-2007, 06:39 PM
<p>This is why I don't care for fame and titles.</p><p>Give ya an example of my experiences.</p><p>The other day I got Champion for about the 10th time.  After I get it I racked up 5 solo kills all for fame with no deaths.  Then a group of 6 rolls up on me.  Some slayers, destroyers and 1 champion.  They kill me and I get the message that my rank has dropped to Destroyer.</p><p>Titles should be kill based if they are in the game at all imo.</p>

Wytie
02-21-2007, 06:52 PM
<cite>Cloakentuna wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>This is why I don't care for fame and titles.</p><p>Give ya an example of my experiences.</p><p>The other day I got Champion for about the 10th time.  After I get it I racked up 5 solo kills all for fame with no deaths.  Then a group of 6 rolls up on me.  Some slayers, destroyers and 1 champion.  They kill me and I get the message that my rank has dropped to Destroyer.</p><p>Titles should be kill based if they are in the game at all imo.</p></blockquote><p> Honestly this isnt possiable, If you got Champ then 5 more positive fame hits solo then die to one group you cant loose your title that fast.</p><p>From my exp when you die to one person or a full group you loose the same amount of fame regardless. But on an average if you kill an even fame person and then die to the smae fame person your fame for the ordeal is about 1/4 less not even. It seems you loose just alittle more than you gain for even fame win/loss.  So imo if you kill 4 even fame solo hits you will be even on fame if you loose 3 even fame hits  "all solo of course".</p><p>I have no proof of this just my obversation so far with lots of solo pvp</p><p>I think that they should implement pvp quest ( based on fame level ) that are kinda hard and if you complete you gain some fame.</p><p>This would make things alittle fairer & fun for those who dont farm greens all day........... </p>

ckl
02-21-2007, 08:06 PM
<cite>Killque wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>(Quote: When/if a free-for-all ruleset is released. We'll see the end of griefing.) </p><p>How so?? </p><p>Has anyone who wants level locking gone exiled? (Im sure someone will say yes). </p><p>I have never exiled, but I have as a FP helped a TON of guildies and other FP'ers Exile over and if you want to know what griefing is, try being an exile for the day. I have ran side by side with a low level exile Spaming Guildie Exiling over to Freeport please do not engage, and what happens 9 out of 10 times? I bet you can guess... </p><p>A FFA server will not "cure" this "Griefing" problem. Infact, I dont think its a problem at all. If your being griefed, its your own [I cannot control my vocabulary] falt imo. </p><p>What people need to realize, is this is a game. There is no written rule that says you need to get to level 70. That is not nessicarily the point of the game.</p><p>The game exists for it to be explored. Why cant people just accept that.</p><p> Griefing is not an issue IMO. No matter what system you put in place griefing will always take place. There are just people who are like that. </p><p>AHH THESE BEES, they keep stinging me. This is wrong! Ahh! STOP!</p><p> Seriously, you CAN avoid being griefed... Strange, I never get griefed... not on any of my toons. </p></blockquote>You're comparing being exile to a true free for all system. True free for all would cure the griefing problem--in the situation you described, your level 70 character (oh wait, you're locked in tier 5, so because of game design flaws which have been described elsewhere ad infinitum, you'll probably need someone else's help) could kill anyone in retribution for killing your friend who is temporarily exiled.  That isn't the case in Everquest 2, since you can't attack other people in your faction, no matter if they're killing a grey exile who's coming over to join your guild. When you realize how exile in EQ2 is a far cry from true FFA, you'll realize that's exactly why there is the potential for griefing.

Cloakentuna
02-21-2007, 09:03 PM
<cite>Wytie wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cloakentuna wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>This is why I don't care for fame and titles.</p><p>Give ya an example of my experiences.</p><p>The other day I got Champion for about the 10th time.  After I get it I racked up 5 solo kills all for fame with no deaths.  Then a group of 6 rolls up on me.  Some slayers, destroyers and 1 champion.  They kill me and I get the message that my rank has dropped to Destroyer.</p><p>Titles should be kill based if they are in the game at all imo.</p></blockquote><p> Honestly this isnt possiable, If you got Champ then 5 more positive fame hits solo then die to one group you cant loose your title that fast.</p><p>From my exp when you die to one person or a full group you loose the same amount of fame regardless. But on an average if you kill an even fame person and then die to the smae fame person your fame for the ordeal is about 1/4 less not even. It seems you loose just alittle more than you gain for even fame win/loss.  So imo if you kill 4 even fame solo hits you will be even on fame if you loose 3 even fame hits  "all solo of course".</p><p>I have no proof of this just my obversation so far with lots of solo pvp</p><p>I think that they should implement pvp quest ( based on fame level ) that are kinda hard and if you complete you gain some fame.</p><p>This would make things alittle fairer & fun for those who dont farm greens all day........... </p></blockquote> you'd think so wouldn't you, but I'm not kidding.

Odama
02-22-2007, 03:02 AM
<cite>Kurindor_Mythecnea wrote:</cite><blockquote>SIMPLE SOLUTION: Remove infamy attrition based upon the power of forces. As it stands, in its peak of form, a group will not lose infamy to anything past a x 2 raid unless they form a x 2 raid and beyond. Just make it so solos don't lose infamy from more than half a group until they begin to duo or form a group. </blockquote> This is something I've always wanted especially as a soloer.  The raid vs solo gank that yields rewards just doesn't make sense to me.  Not asking for them to make it 100% worthless for groups and raids to kill solo players but it should not yield the same rewards as a solo vs solo or duo vs solo.  This is one of the reason why alot of non-scouts can give two s--ts about infamy and titles.

Eluzay
02-22-2007, 02:23 PM
<cite>Cloakentuna wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wytie wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cloakentuna wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>This is why I don't care for fame and titles.</p><p>Give ya an example of my experiences.</p><p>The other day I got Champion for about the 10th time.  After I get it I racked up 5 solo kills all for fame with no deaths.  Then a group of 6 rolls up on me.  Some slayers, destroyers and 1 champion.  They kill me and I get the message that my rank has dropped to Destroyer.</p><p>Titles should be kill based if they are in the game at all imo.</p></blockquote><p> Honestly this isnt possiable, If you got Champ then 5 more positive fame hits solo then die to one group you cant loose your title that fast.</p><p>From my exp when you die to one person or a full group you loose the same amount of fame regardless. But on an average if you kill an even fame person and then die to the smae fame person your fame for the ordeal is about 1/4 less not even. It seems you loose just alittle more than you gain for even fame win/loss.  So imo if you kill 4 even fame solo hits you will be even on fame if you loose 3 even fame hits  "all solo of course".</p><p>I have no proof of this just my obversation so far with lots of solo pvp</p><p>I think that they should implement pvp quest ( based on fame level ) that are kinda hard and if you complete you gain some fame.</p><p>This would make things alittle fairer & fun for those who dont farm greens all day........... </p></blockquote> you'd think so wouldn't you, but I'm not kidding.</blockquote>I believe you 100% tuna, they wont tell us how fame works but it is not normal that is for sure.  My first destroyer title (like level 40ish) I killed an orange destoryer to get it, then lost like 5 one v one's in a row solo fights to slayers and did not loose my title.  The system is just wierd. i am all for removing titles completely in game, it will go a long way to no encourage ganking.

Norrsken
02-23-2007, 07:19 AM
<cite>Wytie wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cloakentuna wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>This is why I don't care for fame and titles.</p><p>Give ya an example of my experiences.</p><p>The other day I got Champion for about the 10th time.  After I get it I racked up 5 solo kills all for fame with no deaths.  Then a group of 6 rolls up on me.  Some slayers, destroyers and 1 champion.  They kill me and I get the message that my rank has dropped to Destroyer.</p><p>Titles should be kill based if they are in the game at all imo.</p></blockquote><p> Honestly this isnt possiable, If you got Champ then 5 more positive fame hits solo then die to one group you cant loose your title that fast.</p><p>From my exp when you die to one person or a full group you loose the same amount of fame regardless. But on an average if you kill an even fame person and then die to the smae fame person your fame for the ordeal is about 1/4 less not even. It seems you loose just alittle more than you gain for even fame win/loss.  So imo if you kill 4 even fame solo hits you will be even on fame if you loose 3 even fame hits  "all solo of course".</p><p>I have no proof of this just my obversation so far with lots of solo pvp</p><p>I think that they should implement pvp quest ( based on fame level ) that are kinda hard and if you complete you gain some fame.</p><p>This would make things alittle fairer & fun for those who dont farm greens all day........... </p></blockquote>It isnt supposed to work that way, however it is. I ahve a fwe similar experiences. Once, my sk dropped from champ during a 1 vs 1. Fair and square, and given that I dont care too much about titles anyways I didnt bother. Then, a fwe minutes later, I run into an x3. I die, obviously. and  drop to slayer. Two deaths dropped me two titles. Thats the most extreme occurance. I should in no way have dropped to slayer from a high end destroyer from one death if the infamy system is working as it should, however I did. I have had similar esperiences on other toons as well. The SK being the most obvious case of it not working as they've told us. Now, if its on purpose or a bug, I dont care. I pvp for the fun of the fights, not for some fluff in front of my name I wish I could turn off.

Killque
02-23-2007, 05:09 PM
<p>Free for all servers are just giant races to end game so your "protected"</p><p>No thanks.</p>