PDA

View Full Version : aggro problems with my healer


azekah
02-19-2007, 03:48 PM
Ok, so I have to get some other opinions on this, because I don't really know what happened. I'm not even sure it'll make sense but... I was on my 50 mystic and was grouped with a 58SK and other dps ranging from 52-58. We went to the Court of Innovation in Klak... Now I know that if you preward with a single target ward you do have a good chance of getting aggro when the tank pulls. But from experience I've found that when prewarding with a group ward it is extremely unlikely for me to get aggro. And if I wait a few seconds to use my single target ward I usually don't get aggro. So we start pulling mobs and something strange seems to happen. As usual I put up my group preward and the tanks pulls. Then after a few seconds I put up single ward on tank. All of a sudden I get aggro and I'm being attacked. This starts to happen over and over again. So I stop prewarding. Tank pulls, I wait a few seconds, put up ward (group or single) and again, I get aggro. Now it didn't happen every pull but it was happening more than I have ever experienced before. We had been playing for about 30 mins and had already wiped about 5-6 times because I got aggro then died, then group wiped. Obviously I have been playing my mystic for a while to get to 50, but I don't understand why I was getting aggro so often that night. Could it have anything to do that I was only 50 in a 55-58 zone? Would mobs even notice that kind of thing? Could it have anything to do with an SK tank? Anyone have any suggestions? I'm at a loss...

zaun2
02-19-2007, 04:07 PM
It may not be your fault in any way, shape, or form.  Was the SK doing his part on attempting to keep agro on all the mobs?  It sounds like you are doing everything 100% right.

azekah
02-19-2007, 04:21 PM
Didn't really know the tank, so not sure. He seemed like he knew what he was doing though, but I couldn't exactly look at his screen =D

Bozidar
02-19-2007, 04:26 PM
did the tank have aggression maxed out?

thedu
02-19-2007, 04:48 PM
What AP's are you using? Were you sending dogdog into the fights?

azekah
02-19-2007, 05:05 PM
<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>did the tank have aggression maxed out?   </blockquote>I have no idea... <cite>thedump wrote:</cite><blockquote>What AP's are you using? Were you sending dogdog into the fights? </blockquote>Have 9 points in the wisdom line and a used some to upg SoW Um, usually have dog on autoattack, but that has never gotten aggro before. The dog's attacks only aggro if no one else is attacking.

Graywindnz
02-19-2007, 06:39 PM
<p>Was your tank pulling many single targets or grps of mobs</p><p>if it was lots of single mobs then it could be the tank was unable or not trying to get agro on all targets, if it was linked grps then he should be cycling targets and taunting like crazy </p><p>IMHO its not your fault , ive grped with a Mystics many times with my Monk and only had a little problem with more than 1 grp pulled or adds I just have to be on my toes and taunt if a mob goes after my healer. </p>

azekah
02-19-2007, 06:52 PM
<cite>Graywindnz wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Was your tank pulling many single targets or grps of mobs</p><p>if it was lots of single mobs then it could be the tank was unable or not trying to get agro on all targets, if it was linked grps then he should be cycling targets and taunting like crazy </p><p>IMHO its not your fault , ive grped with a Mystics many times with my Monk and only had a little problem with more than 1 grp pulled or adds I just have to be on my toes and taunt if a mob goes after my healer. </p><p>    </p></blockquote> It seemed to happen most when the tank (or other group members) were pulling a group or more than one single target. I suppose if he wasn't taunting when adds came on, I would get aggro when I warded. I mainly wanted to make sure I wasn't doing anything wrong. It seems like from most of the replies that I wasn't. I appreciate the comments everyone...

Sotaudi
02-19-2007, 07:53 PM
<p>If you are drawing aggro when a group of mobs is pulled, the problem was likely that the tank had not yet established aggro on all the mobs in the group.  </p><p>If a tank pulls a group of mobs (linked or not), and only damages/taunts one mob in that group, only the mob he targeted will have generated much hate, and all the other mobs will act pretty much like a body pull.  They will have put the tank on their hate lists, but he will not have much hate to overcome with any but the mob he had targeted and damaged or taunted.  For purposes of damage dealers, as long as everyone just attacks the mob the tank has generated hate with and does not out damage the amount of hate he has generated, the additional mobs will typically stay focused on the tank.  However, the same is not true of heals and warding.</p><p>Healing or warding will remove or prevent damage any mob attacking the tank is trying to do.  Since the additional mobs are also attacking the tank, your heal or ward does not just affect your status with the initial target of the tank but with every mob hitting him.  Therefore, if he has not used AoE damage and area taunts or cycled through targets and individually damaged/taunted them all, any action you take will fairly quickly get the attention of the undamaged/untaunted mobs.</p><p>So it sounds to me like the tank was too narrowly focused on one mob and had not generated enough hate on all the mobs to allow you to heal and ward.</p>

thedu
02-19-2007, 08:10 PM
Also, with Mystics, there was a an issue with the "Runic" line. It was supposedly fixed, but I believe that in some circumstances it still occurs. Namely pulling aggro when you haven't done anything because there is ward component to the "Runic" buff.  It's probably not anything you were doing, but more likely the tank wasn't generating enough aggro from the beginning.

NiteWolfe
02-19-2007, 09:41 PM
 A 70 templar that i group with often has had a simular problem for a week or so now.  Same group setup that we normally run (6 of us from our guild almost always group together when all are on line) SK goes to proxy pull and the mobs run straight for the templar. Even checked the logs, the mobs never even hit the SK he proxy pull no pre reavtives, the mobs run right past him to the templar. We never have had this issue b/4 and we still dont know why its doing this. Templar had to out out of town for the weekend so dont know if still a issue but it sure has been fustrating.

Lortet
02-19-2007, 09:41 PM
<p>I would be holding back my ward until I had seen the taunt "flare" on the enemy mobs - a SK should probably first taunt with his encounter taunt as it acts as a disease debuff on the mob as well - which in turn should increase his aggro through increased dps. If he was only using damage or the single target taunt, then yes, you would draw aggro from those enemies that he hadn't aggravated yet.</p><p>Edit - just read the above post - yes I have seen that as well when tanking (SK) and body pulling with my brother's templar healing - I have managed to get the aggro back fast enough, but it is puzzling - initially we thought it might have been a "left over" reactive still active, but they will run straight past me to him at times.</p>

RipFlex
02-19-2007, 10:56 PM
<p>Cancel any "left-over" heals you may have from previous fight, and if the tank seems to not hold agro with the adds and whatnot then you may have to be a bit mean and wait for the second cycle of taunts for assurance, or start healing when he gets to 50% health at the intitial pull.   You still get agro the tank is lazy and prolly stop taunting in the middle of the fight...</p>

NiteWolfe
02-20-2007, 01:59 AM
 Aye we know to cancel any left over heals so thats not the issue and the Sk always gets it back under control fast just really odd that the mobs would run to the templar when she had done nothing on a proxy pull.

Norrsken
02-20-2007, 06:56 AM
SKs should have all the tools they'll ever need to keep multiple target aggro. And at 58, all he ever needs to do to regain aggro is pop off DM. Not that he should have any problems jjust ragetingt he mob on you and ripping it off you with a few other skills in his aresenal. I'd say a poorly played SK. HEalers are not the guys picking aggro off my sk, for sure. If anything, its brigands.

TheBu
02-20-2007, 11:26 AM
<p>The sk should really have no problems with agro with multiple ecounters. i just run to the tank when i get agro.  Wer you u going down fast or what?</p><p>Now as a mystic dont u have a spell that gives u agro right off the bat? Some type of buff i seem to rember. might be your<b> mit</b> <b>and ward regen  buff</b>. Aslo i would think a group ward would give u more agro than a single ward. Purhaps not if cast before the the initial agro. But if any aoes happen.. .intant agro on u i would guess.</p><p>Questions:   what lvl are ur wards? are they masters?  Did u have to heal the tank alot?(aka ur wards wer getting used up fast)9 how was the tanks mit? he have a shield?)  Wer others gettting agro?</p><p>dont forget the sk can heal them self.. so just go easy on the wards if that the problem. purhaps switch to other heals for the first heal. But i think it might have been the combo of the Mit and ward regen buff u have along with aoe and second encounter.</p>

NiteWolfe
02-20-2007, 12:00 PM
Well the Templar was back last night so we did a CoV run last night to try to get class  forarms for a guildie. Little diferant setup. Was guard, zerker,monk,illusionist,templar and swashy (me). Odd group i know but CoV not that hard and2 players neededthe possibe drops in there. Guard MT very well geared and is our raid MT. Same issue on proxy pulls. Guard ease up on mobs, Mobs turns looks at him (does not hit i was watching the combat window) Mobs run right  by him attacked templar (checked no left over heals on tanks). No really problem the MT gets argo back with taunts asap. We just cant figure out why the mobs are instant argoing the templar. Could understand maybe if it was some kind of buff or reactive but the mobs are not even hitting the tank on the proxy pull. They totally ignore him till he runs back and gets a taunt off.  Hes gotten good at hitting taunt as they run past thu LOL.

Norrsken
02-20-2007, 02:13 PM
<cite>NiteWolfe wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well the Templar was back last night so we did a CoV run last night to try to get class  forarms for a guildie. Little diferant setup. Was guard, zerker,monk,illusionist,templar and swashy (me). Odd group i know but CoV not that hard and2 players neededthe possibe drops in there. Guard MT very well geared and is our raid MT. Same issue on proxy pulls. Guard ease up on mobs, Mobs turns looks at him (does not hit i was watching the combat window) Mobs run right  by him attacked templar (checked no left over heals on tanks). No really problem the MT gets argo back with taunts asap. We just cant figure out why the mobs are instant argoing the templar. Could understand maybe if it was some kind of buff or reactive but the mobs are not even hitting the tank on the proxy pull. They totally ignore him till he runs back and gets a taunt off.  Hes gotten good at hitting taunt as they run past thu LOL. </blockquote>That is an oddity that came in somewhere around EoF. Doesnt matter which classes are involved. Sometimes when body pulling, the mobs will just disregard the tank that pulled and go for someone else. Me and my brig buddy tried it out. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> No buffs, still they will on occaision go for someone else than the body puller. Without any damage having been done. Quite wierd.

azekah
02-20-2007, 02:52 PM
<cite>TheBuzZ wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>The sk should really have no problems with agro with multiple ecounters. i just run to the tank when i get agro.  Wer you u going down fast or what?</p><p>Now as a mystic dont u have a spell that gives u agro right off the bat? Some type of buff i seem to rember. might be your<b> mit</b> <b>and ward regen  buff</b>. Aslo i would think a group ward would give u more agro than a single ward. Purhaps not if cast before the the initial agro. But if any aoes happen.. .intant agro on u i would guess.</p><p>Questions:   what lvl are ur wards? are they masters?  Did u have to heal the tank alot?(aka ur wards wer getting used up fast)9 how was the tanks mit? he have a shield?)  Wer others gettting agro?</p><p>dont forget the sk can heal them self.. so just go easy on the wards if that the problem. purhaps switch to other heals for the first heal. But i think it might have been the combo of the Mit and ward regen buff u have along with aoe and second encounter.</p></blockquote>I have lots of buffs, I'll have to check when I get home... You would think that group wards would get more aggro, but as I said, from my experience, it almost never happens. I could put up a group ward and tank could body pull and not taunt for a while and I still wouldn't get aggro. I could have no wards on, tank could pull and attack for a few seconds, and when I use a single ward I might still get aggro. For some reason mobs seem to care a lot more about single target wards then group wards, I have no idea why, just the way it works. (any other warders agree with me?) I have master or adept III wards... From a warding/healing difficulty level I would put it at about a 5.5, 1 being easy, 10 we're going to die... I've had worse groups, and I've definatly had better, but it wasn't more than I could handle, that is, when I wasn't being attacked. But, the Sk could not last for more than maybe 10-15 seconds without a ward or he would die. So I was waiting as long as I could, but I didn't have a lot of time or the tank would die... especially with the casting time of wards... I really didn't do anything different than I have in any other group. I've learned how to use my mystic, when to ward, when not to and such...it was just the craziness of that group that made me wonder if it was my fault. I suppose the most diffucult part was that I was only level 50 in a 55-58 zone. I didn't have much of a problem with my job as a healer, but whenever I got aggro, I went down fast. And with the amount of times I was getting aggro, the group and I were starting to get very frustrated, very fast. I haven't had time to play since that night...but I'm going to try and get on tonight. I'm anxious to see if it happens again under different circumstances...

Ba
02-20-2007, 04:17 PM
<p>It's not real hard to figure out.</p><p>It occurs when:-</p><p>a) A person body pulls and doesn't taunt or generate any more hate within a certain amount of time</p><p>b) A mob is inactive (white, unattackable) and becomes active</p><p>In case [a] what is happening is:</p><p>1) Tank body pulls mobs. Tank has 10 hate (example value). Tank has your group ward on him.</p><p>2) Mobs whack tank as he pulls back to the group. Your ward prevents dmg. Mobs now hate you. More their dmg is warded the more hate you gain.</p><p>3) Mobs get into aggro range of group and make a periodic hate check. They decide they hate you more than the tank. Banzai!!</p><p>In case [b] what is happens:-</p><p>1) Mob becomes active. Faced with no hate list and 5 players in aggro range he picks one to aggro semi-randomly (Note: Some scripted mobs are set to aggro certain classes over others. Eg. healers first)</p><p>I have had case [a] occur before when using the Bestial Feast line of spells on my Fury. Combat ended. Feast triggered on mobs death. Tank immediately ran off (on 95% hp) and body pulled another nearby target. Didn't taunt during the pull. Feast HoT ticked and restored some of his health. Mobs ran to attack me because I had more hate than the tank. Did not take him long to regain the hate (one group taunt) but it still occured.</p>