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View Full Version : Everyone complains about spammers....


Triwyn
02-19-2007, 06:45 AM
   People (including myself) complain about these people.  BUT, I seriously don't see a single complaint about people who are the reason for the spam..... THE BUYERS!!!  Some people (including people we know, in our guild, people we group with, or whatever...)are the reason spam exist!  If it wasnt profitable then why the hell would it happen?  If we try to hit it at both ends, maybe I can log in without:  "BUYGOLDCHEAP" from: alkjfdladsj.  OH and lets not forget "eiueo0udxkcd"  He has free powerleveling.  Some [Removed for Content] is going to buy that. Thats our problem.     Let's face it, the spammers are at fault but what about cracking down on the people on the receiving end?  Its a run around!  So I ask:  If this bothers me as much as it does the community then what can we do about the people who make this "worth their wild?" Azshara ...

bensilvi
02-19-2007, 09:51 AM
<p>/yawn</p><p>Wow this is the first post i have ever seen like this.</p>

MrWolfie
02-19-2007, 10:45 AM
<p>I'll tell you what spam is and is not. </p><p>A single /tell once an hour, or even once per game session ~ I've never been sent a tell more than once in a 24 hour period, is not spam. It may be annoying and against the EULA...etc (in which case you should follow the correct course of action and /report and /petition). However, when you receive a /tell from a plat seller, proceeding to inform the entire server thru public channels and ranting on and on (to people who can do nothing about it and, probably, like me, couldn't care less) is spam.</p><p>Stick to the official routes for reporting nuisances.</p>

Saihung23
02-19-2007, 11:01 AM
<p>Bensilvi:</p><p> Why do you even write a word in a thread that you yawn over and ho hum about?  Your responses are just as repetitive as the subject of spammers.</p><p>MrWolfie:</p><p>Bully for you.  You have not recieved more than one spam in a 24 hour period.  That is terrific.  And that one tell doesn't bother you. Again, great for you.</p><p>The fact of the matter is that there ARE players getting SPAMMED.  There are players who see spam tell every hour...or more.</p><p>Your lame attempt to debunk the OP by "defining" spam is ridiculous.  I am sure that the people (myself included) who are irritated with these tells consider sending a tell to everyone on the server SPAM.</p><p>What amazes me is that there are players like you two out there that look at an obvious problem with this game, one that drives people away....and say "Oh well, deal with it"  or something akin to that.</p><p> Well....I am dealing with it in my own manner.  </p><p>Its up to SOE to find a solution to the irritating chatter produced by these spammers and obviously SOE can't handle it.  For a player there is really only a couple of choices...</p><p>Dont take tells from anyone.  Delete tells from every chat window.</p><p>Be the 345,364th person to change to anon or roleplay in a vain attempt to HIDE from the plat sellers.</p><p>Or Quit.</p><p>Have fun, when more and more people quit Ben and Wolfie....guess who will be getting more and more tells.</p><p>And go ahead...send replies to an automated program.  Tell them all the ethnic asian insults you can come up with.  If it makes you feel better, go with it.</p><p>I however will not stop my complaints in [Removed for Content] because some small minority is more irritated by legitimate complaints than by plat selling spam.</p>

Fumbles
02-19-2007, 11:35 AM
<p>Let me start by saying I get these tells all the time. They don't bother me, I see it is advertising (not really spam) and I ignore it. This subject is old and SoE is well aware of the issue, there is no need to keep bringing it up like it's a startling revelation. </p><p>They are doing what they can to reduce it. They are even making it easier to use the petition system by allowing you to open a browser in your game without having to go to windowed mode. -re GU32</p><p>Unless you have a sugestion (that has not already been suggested 100x on the board already) to reduce the problem, don't start a post to complain about it. In effect, you are creating spam on this board.</p>

UlteriorModem
02-19-2007, 11:36 AM
<cite>Triwyn wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I seriously don't see a single complaint about people who are the reason for the spam..... THE BUYERS!!!  </p><p> Azshara ... </p></blockquote> New to the forums I see.

bensilvi
02-19-2007, 01:36 PM
<cite>Saihung23 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Bensilvi:</p><p> Why do you even write a word in a thread that you yawn over and ho hum about?  Your responses are just as repetitive as the subject of spammers.</p><p>MrWolfie:</p><p>Bully for you.  You have not recieved more than one spam in a 24 hour period.  That is terrific.  And that one tell doesn't bother you. Again, great for you.</p><p>The fact of the matter is that there ARE players getting SPAMMED.  There are players who see spam tell every hour...or more.</p><p>Your lame attempt to debunk the OP by "defining" spam is ridiculous.  I am sure that the people (myself included) who are irritated with these tells consider sending a tell to everyone on the server SPAM.</p><p>What amazes me is that there are players like you two out there that look at an obvious problem with this game, one that drives people away....and say "Oh well, deal with it"  or something akin to that.</p><p> Well....I am dealing with it in my own manner.  </p><p>Its up to SOE to find a solution to the irritating chatter produced by these spammers and obviously SOE can't handle it.  For a player there is really only a couple of choices...</p><p>Dont take tells from anyone.  Delete tells from every chat window.</p><p>Be the 345,364th person to change to anon or roleplay in a vain attempt to HIDE from the plat sellers.</p><p>Or Quit.</p><p>Have fun, when more and more people quit Ben and Wolfie....guess who will be getting more and more tells.</p><p>And go ahead...send replies to an automated program.  Tell them all the ethnic asian insults you can come up with.  If it makes you feel better, go with it.</p><p>I however will not stop my complaints in [Removed for Content] because some small minority is more irritated by legitimate complaints than by plat selling spam.</p></blockquote>Looks like you woke up on the wrong side of the bed. In no way did I say deal with it! However the Bazillion post on this subject get tiring. This has been discussed forever and it does not appear to do any good other than another worthless debate on something we can not control. If people leave the game due to spam tells getting sent to them then that is there lose. I get sick of the tells mail too but what is there left to do? If it was so easy to remove these people from the game then someone would have found away long ago. All I said was oh another thread about an issue that has been beaten to death. Now go get another horse and beat that one too.

Gaj
02-19-2007, 01:39 PM
<p>The buying and selling of gold plat coin credits isk whatever, has been around since the birth of modern MMORPG's like UO, and is very likely to remain with us forevermore.</p><p>By all means assist the devs to develop ways that they do not interfere with our gameplay, but don't have a stroke anguishing over the problem, report them or ignore them, personally I ignore, because the brief microsecond it takes for my brain to register to ignore the tell, has far less impact on my gameplay than any other option. When I get a startling revelation about how to prevent the tell in the first place, I'll bring it up.</p><p> But I have to say too, that in my EQ2 time, I've found <b><i><u>some</u></i></b> of the anti-plat seller farming bot crusaders to be more invasive of my gaming experience, than the actual problem they insist on ranting telling or accussing me of.</p>

bensilvi
02-19-2007, 01:46 PM
<cite>Gajet wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>The buying and selling of gold plat coin credits isk whatever, has been around since the birth of modern MMORPG's like UO, and is very likely to remain with us forevermore.</p><p>By all means assist the devs to develop ways that they do not interfere with our gameplay, but don't have a stroke anguishing over the problem, report them or ignore them, personally I ignore, because the brief microsecond it takes for my brain to register to ignore the tell, has far less impact on my gameplay than any other option. When I get a startling revelation about how to prevent the tell in the first place, I'll bring it up.</p><p><span style="color: #990000"> But I have to say too, that in my EQ2 time, I've found <b><i><u>some</u></i></b> of the anti-plat seller farming bot crusaders to be more invasive of my gaming experience, than the actual problem they insist on ranting telling or accussing me of.</span></p></blockquote> So true with that. I hate going up to get a named only to see 6 uninvis all with generated names killing the named getting the loot and moving on.

ChildofHate
02-19-2007, 01:52 PM
<p>Blame the buyers...  Now there's a new idea!</p><p><span style="font-size: xx-small">ibtl</span></p>

Zarador
02-19-2007, 05:10 PM
I'm not going to say that Spam is okay, it's not.  With that much said, if people quit the game because of it, their obviously so close to quitting anyway that the next change in the game or bad group/camp/quest...whatever will make them leave anyway.  People watch TV with commercials all the time.  The point is not that we pay to play, so it's different than the TV example, but rather that if you enjoy something enough, an interruption, although annoying, does not ruin the whole experience.

Illmarr
02-19-2007, 05:34 PM
<p><span style="font-family: verdana,geneva">I've gotten tells to buy services/gold, but never in volume that would be classified as spam. I do not doubt that people do get spammed though. I wonder what malfunction causes people to get sent tells over and over. (Just an intellectual curiosity, in the grand scheme of things it makes no difference I guess, spam is spam)</span></p><p><span style="font-family: verdana,geneva">I do like getting tells when on my Newbie Isle Transmuting harvester. I have fun going to find them, usually a Frog (Knew frigs were evil creatures, Marr be danged) I /say "No I won't buy your gold, stop asking welcome to /report" and /duel them a few times. They usually leave as soon as they notice what is being said, and are not going to report anything due to their own activities, so I get some self-righteous satisfaction without bothering anyone else <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span></p>

Sotaudi
02-19-2007, 08:58 PM
<cite>MrWolfie wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I'll tell you what spam is and is not. </p><p>A single /tell once an hour, or even once per game session ~ I've never been sent a tell more than once in a 24 hour period, is not spam. It may be annoying and against the EULA...etc (in which case you should follow the correct course of action and /report and /petition). However, when you receive a /tell from a plat seller, proceeding to inform the entire server thru public channels and ranting on and on (to people who can do nothing about it and, probably, like me, couldn't care less) is spam.</p><p>Stick to the official routes for reporting nuisances.</p></blockquote><p>You are incorrect in your analysis.  The American Heritage Dictionary defines spam as: "<b>spam</b>  (spām) -- n.   Unsolicited e-mail, often of a commercial nature, sent indiscriminately to multiple mailing lists, individuals, or newsgroups; junk e-mail."</p><p>("spam." <i>The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition</i>. Houghton Mifflin Company, 2004. 19 Feb. 2007. <Dictionary.com <a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/spam" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/spam</a>>.&nbsp<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>If you will read through this and other definitions of "spam" in other dictionaries/sources, you will find that the common themes qualifying something as spam are that it is unsolicited/unwanted communications, usually of a commercial nature, being sent indiscriminately to many recipients.  And not one of them mentions anything about frequency.  Thus, a message qualifies as being spam as long as it is unsolicited, of a commercial nature, and sent indiscriminately to many recipients even if it is received only once a lifetime, much less once every 24 hours.</p><p>On the other hand, a player expressing his displeasure and warning others of someone violating the EULA is called free-speech, not spam.  If someone abuses the chat channels in expressing said opinion, there may be other issues involved, but simply making a statement or starting a discussion you don't care about is hardly what qualifies something as spam.</p><p>Your analysis is simply wrong.</p>

Zarador
02-20-2007, 03:55 AM
<cite>Sotaudi wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>MrWolfie wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I'll tell you what spam is and is not. </p><p>A single /tell once an hour, or even once per game session ~ I've never been sent a tell more than once in a 24 hour period, is not spam. It may be annoying and against the EULA...etc (in which case you should follow the correct course of action and /report and /petition). However, when you receive a /tell from a plat seller, proceeding to inform the entire server thru public channels and ranting on and on (to people who can do nothing about it and, probably, like me, couldn't care less) is spam.</p><p>Stick to the official routes for reporting nuisances.</p></blockquote><p>You are incorrect in your analysis.  The American Heritage Dictionary defines spam as: "<b>spam</b>  (spām) -- n.   Unsolicited e-mail, often of a commercial nature, sent indiscriminately to multiple mailing lists, individuals, or newsgroups; junk e-mail."</p><p>("spam." <i>The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition</i>. Houghton Mifflin Company, 2004. 19 Feb. 2007. <Dictionary.com <a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/spam" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/spam</a>>. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>If you will read through this and other definitions of "spam" in other dictionaries/sources, you will find that the common themes qualifying something as spam are that it is unsolicited/unwanted communications, usually of a commercial nature, being sent indiscriminately to many recipients.  And not one of them mentions anything about frequency.  Thus, a message qualifies as being spam as long as it is unsolicited, of a commercial nature, and sent indiscriminately to many recipients even if it is received only once a lifetime, much less once every 24 hours.</p><p>On the other hand, a player expressing his displeasure and warning others of someone violating the EULA is called free-speech, not spam.  If someone abuses the chat channels in expressing said opinion, there may be other issues involved, but simply making a statement or starting a discussion you don't care about is hardly what qualifies something as spam.</p><p>Your analysis is simply wrong.</p></blockquote>I think what Mr.Wolfe was referring to is the "worse than spam" drama queens in the channels that start with "OMG...I can't believe this &^%&...I just got another tell from....<insert name>" which then goes on with a 15 minute rant about Chinese gold farmers and how they ruin the game for them as well as all the things they would do to stop it were it them. Most of us know already that if we got the tell, or they got the tell, in about 15 minutes everyone will have the tell.

Chirpaa
02-20-2007, 05:37 AM
<p>Just go anon or rp flag.</p><p>I used to get a few whispers a day, on the average, from plat sellers as well as an ingame mail on and off.  Since i turned on my roleplay flag, I haven't had a single one.  It's been 3 weeks.  </p><p>I'm told some still will come my way, but the reduction is HUGE.   Enough so that when one does come, it won't bother me that much.  I'll /ignore the sender, and go on my way.</p><p>If it bothers you that much, follow my advice. It will address the problem alot more than starting this thread did.</p><p>And, yes, I agree, it IS the buyers who are the problem.  If a business has no customers, they will go out of business.  A business which is considered a negative influence on the community is, truly, the fault of the customers that sponsor it's existence.     That's really irrelevant though, none of us can do anything about those who are stupid enough to pay real money for not real money.   We can set our flags to reduce the amount of hassle that their suppliers cause us, however.</p>

Sunlei
02-20-2007, 07:04 AM
<p> I get about 1-2 tells an hour from those 2 gold selling sites. Always a different name. I always report but the /report is to late because that name has sent their spam to everyone on the servers. They can use cross server tells too and spam every player on all the worlds.</p><p> I agree with the op, soe is not harsh enough on the buyers. Yes, I've heard they remove gold and give a weeks suspension. That's not harsh enough. </p><p> I think soe should roll back levels of power lvled characters, roll back afk pet people, and roll back crafting/hunting macro users. </p><p>For gold buyers if soe can't delete the bought gold, then set that characters account to have ingame coin vanish soon as they loot it untill the bought amount is earned back. Roll them back a couple lvls and let them explain to guildies why they are today a couple lvls lower. The fear of getting 'caught' and others noticing their cheating will deter many people more than anything.</p><p>perhaps if people start losing hundreds of real dollars they will stop spending money on the eula breaking websites. </p>

Pain Divine
02-20-2007, 03:15 PM
<p>SOE doesnt care about the spammers, the sellers or the buyers. SOE won't doing anything about it so it's part of the game now. Most likely SOE is even running one or both the websites... Creating their own gold and profiting off of it. It's disgusting, but nothing new from SOE. </p><p> You either live with it or quit the game. Oh, and as for the mods in this forum? They are just as in the dark about this stuff as we are. They probobly have never even met the executives in person. Just like they were all just as fooled about the froglok thing as we were. I remember farwolf sending me a PM saying it was a "FACT" that the frogloks were in the game... haha</p>

DngrMou
02-20-2007, 03:23 PM
Pain Divine wrote: <blockquote><p>SOE doesnt care about the spammers, the sellers or the buyers. SOE won't doing anything about it so it's part of the game now. Most likely SOE is even running one or both the websites... Creating their own gold and profiting off of it. It's disgusting, but nothing new from SOE. </p></blockquote> Care to back these tin foil hat accusations up with any facts?   I did'nt think so.....

Lord_Quaymar
02-20-2007, 03:48 PM
<cite>Triwyn wrote:</cite><blockquote>  "worth their wild?" Azshara ... </blockquote><p>It's "worth their while" btw.</p><p>Anyhow....plat sellers, spammers, buyers, etc... will always be around so get used to it.</p><p>Can't get over it? Then don't play anymore because they aren't going away. Heck, even Vanguard has them already. </p>

Pain Divine
02-20-2007, 03:55 PM
<cite>DngrMouse wrote:</cite><blockquote>Pain Divine wrote: <blockquote><p>SOE doesnt care about the spammers, the sellers or the buyers. SOE won't doing anything about it so it's part of the game now. Most likely SOE is even running one or both the websites... Creating their own gold and profiting off of it. It's disgusting, but nothing new from SOE. </p></blockquote> Care to back these tin foil hat accusations up with any facts?   I did'nt think so.....</blockquote><p> hehe, I bet you're still waiting for scientific proof that smoking causes cancer arent you? </p>

Sotaudi
02-20-2007, 04:00 PM
<cite>Zarador wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sotaudi wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>MrWolfie wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I'll tell you what spam is and is not. </p><p>A single /tell once an hour, or even once per game session ~ I've never been sent a tell more than once in a 24 hour period, is not spam. It may be annoying and against the EULA...etc (in which case you should follow the correct course of action and /report and /petition). However, when you receive a /tell from a plat seller, proceeding to inform the entire server thru public channels and ranting on and on (to people who can do nothing about it and, probably, like me, couldn't care less) is spam.</p><p>Stick to the official routes for reporting nuisances.</p></blockquote><p>You are incorrect in your analysis.  The American Heritage Dictionary defines spam as: "<b>spam</b>  (spām) -- n.   Unsolicited e-mail, often of a commercial nature, sent indiscriminately to multiple mailing lists, individuals, or newsgroups; junk e-mail."</p><p>("spam." <i>The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition</i>. Houghton Mifflin Company, 2004. 19 Feb. 2007. <Dictionary.com <a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/spam" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/spam</a>>. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>If you will read through this and other definitions of "spam" in other dictionaries/sources, you will find that the common themes qualifying something as spam are that it is unsolicited/unwanted communications, usually of a commercial nature, being sent indiscriminately to many recipients.  And not one of them mentions anything about frequency.  Thus, a message qualifies as being spam as long as it is unsolicited, of a commercial nature, and sent indiscriminately to many recipients even if it is received only once a lifetime, much less once every 24 hours.</p><p>On the other hand, a player expressing his displeasure and warning others of someone violating the EULA is called free-speech, not spam.  If someone abuses the chat channels in expressing said opinion, there may be other issues involved, but simply making a statement or starting a discussion you don't care about is hardly what qualifies something as spam.</p><p>Your analysis is simply wrong.</p></blockquote>I think what Mr.Wolfe was referring to is the "worse than spam" drama queens in the channels that start with "OMG...I can't believe this &^%&...I just got another tell from....<insert name>" which then goes on with a 15 minute rant about Chinese gold farmers and how they ruin the game for them as well as all the things they would do to stop it were it them. Most of us know already that if we got the tell, or they got the tell, in about 15 minutes everyone will have the tell. </blockquote><p>I know exactly what he was saying, and he is still wrong.  Exercising one's rights to express an opinion in a public forum (i.e., here or in the chat channels) is not worse than someone breaking the rules of a game, encouraging others to do the same, and ruining the economy of the game.  What he is saying is he does not care about the spam, but he cares that others do, and he would rather no one say anything, which only cloaks the problem.</p><p>He was wrong.</p>

Lord_Quaymar
02-20-2007, 04:09 PM
Pain Divine wrote: <blockquote><cite>DngrMouse wrote:</cite><blockquote>Pain Divine wrote: <blockquote><p>SOE doesnt care about the spammers, the sellers or the buyers. SOE won't doing anything about it so it's part of the game now. Most likely SOE is even running one or both the websites... Creating their own gold and profiting off of it. It's disgusting, but nothing new from SOE. </p></blockquote> Care to back these tin foil hat accusations up with any facts?   I did'nt think so.....</blockquote><p> hehe, I bet you're still waiting for scientific proof that smoking causes cancer arent you? </p></blockquote><p>There is medical proof that smoking causes cancer but that besides the point and quite an ignorant reply on your part too. It just shows that you have no real basis for your claim that they don't care.</p><p>The fact is that they DO care as evidenced by them banning over 50,000 accounts for it. But I can tell you that after 7 years of playing these games that they are like cockroaches, kill one and there are 5 more to replace them. </p><p>Saying SoE doesn't care is like saying the police don't care about criminals because crime is still being commited...a completely silly claim when you think about it. </p>

DngrMou
02-20-2007, 04:22 PM
Pain Divine wrote: <blockquote><cite>DngrMouse wrote:</cite><blockquote>Pain Divine wrote: <blockquote><p>SOE doesnt care about the spammers, the sellers or the buyers. SOE won't doing anything about it so it's part of the game now. Most likely SOE is even running one or both the websites... Creating their own gold and profiting off of it. It's disgusting, but nothing new from SOE. </p></blockquote> Care to back these tin foil hat accusations up with any facts?   I did'nt think so.....</blockquote><p> hehe, I bet you're still waiting for scientific proof that smoking causes cancer arent you? </p></blockquote>I'm confused on what smoking has to do with your accusations that SOE is running one or both sites, creates their own gold for sale, profits from it, and is nothing new.

Owilliams
02-20-2007, 08:44 PM
<cite>Saihung23 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Bensilvi:</p><p> Why do you even write a word in a thread that you yawn over and ho hum about?  Your responses are just as repetitive as the subject of spammers.</p><p>MrWolfie:</p><p>Bully for you.  You have not recieved more than one spam in a 24 hour period.  That is terrific.  And that one tell doesn't bother you. Again, great for you.</p><p>The fact of the matter is that there ARE players getting SPAMMED.  There are players who see spam tell every hour...or more.</p><p>Your lame attempt to debunk the OP by "defining" spam is ridiculous.  I am sure that the people (myself included) who are irritated with these tells consider sending a tell to everyone on the server SPAM.</p><p>What amazes me is that there are players like you two out there that look at an obvious problem with this game, one that drives people away....and say "Oh well, deal with it"  or something akin to that.</p><p> Well....I am dealing with it in my own manner.  </p><p>Its up to SOE to find a solution to the irritating chatter produced by these spammers and obviously SOE can't handle it.  For a player there is really only a couple of choices...</p><p>Dont take tells from anyone.  Delete tells from every chat window.</p><p>Be the 345,364th person to change to anon or roleplay in a vain attempt to HIDE from the plat sellers.</p><p>Or Quit.</p><p>Have fun, when more and more people quit Ben and Wolfie....guess who will be getting more and more tells.</p><p>And go ahead...send replies to an automated program.  Tell them all the ethnic asian insults you can come up with.  If it makes you feel better, go with it.</p><p>I however will not stop my complaints in [Removed for Content] because some small minority is more irritated by legitimate complaints than by plat selling spam.</p></blockquote><p> Because guys like Bensilvi and MrWolfie are being condescending.  They feel they have an important opinion to add, the opinion that they are better than the OP.   Expressing that opinion makes them feel special.</p><p> You guys are special... <hug>.</p><p>Now, do we all feel better?</p><p>/sarcasm off</p><p>--Orv </p>

Spyderbite
02-20-2007, 08:52 PM
<cite>MrWolfie wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>However, when you receive a /tell from a plat seller, proceeding to inform the entire server thru public channels and ranting on and on (to people who can do nothing about it and, probably, like me, couldn't care less) is spam. </p></blockquote>/chuckles I got about 20 of these yesterday in the 30-39 chat.. Ironically, I never got the spam the the person was [Removed for Content] about in the first place. Too true. /bows with a flourish

Owilliams
02-20-2007, 08:59 PM
<p>Oh, and BTW...</p><p>To the OP, I have noticed a big upsurge in plat spam since the beginning of the year, especially in the past couple weeks.</p><p>I am averaging about 6 per session, usually in pairs from the same seller each time. (4-5 hour time period on Crushbone server)</p><p>Gamestopping, hardly... but d*mned annoying and an indicator, to me at least, that SOE needs to take a firmer hand in reducing this garbage.</p><p>Obviously, what they are currently doing is insufficient since the evidence indicates the problem is increasing.</p><p>Whether I agree totally with the comments from the OP, I am glad to keep seeing other players voice their displeasure with the situation.</p><p>Rolling over and ignoring it is not the answer, that amounts to enabling. You /report, /petition, /feedback, and come here to these forums to let SOE know you are unhappy about it.  Ignore the self-appointed thread monitors... they have no teeth to back up the drivel.</p><p>Happy Gaming,</p><p>--Orv</p>

Gaj
02-21-2007, 08:04 AM
<cite>Owilliams wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Rolling over and ignoring it is not the answer, that amounts to enabling. You /report, /petition, /feedback, and come here to these forums to let SOE know you are unhappy about it.  Ignore the self-appointed thread monitors... they have no teeth to back up the drivel.</p></blockquote><p> But sadly the reality is that you too have no teeth, just lots of bark. You /report, /petition, /feedback but what difference has that made? All that happens is people on a crusade against this get angrier and angrier, and that causes them to quit. Those who ignore, barely notice the problem and have a better gameplay experience. </p><p>As was said earlier, this subject has been discussed to death, and in this thread there have been precisely 0 new ideas on how to improve the situation. When someone gets a great idea on how to make a difference, then by all means bring it up.</p><p>In the meantime I say again, every MMORPG has had coin/item/experince sellers and no game company has ever been able to prevent it. I then point to Owilliams signature which seems quite poignant to me.</p>

Chirpaa
02-21-2007, 08:18 AM
Pain Divine wrote: <blockquote><p>SOE doesnt care about the spammers, the sellers or the buyers. SOE won't doing anything about it so it's part of the game now. Most likely SOE is even running one or both the websites... Creating their own gold and profiting off of it. It's disgusting, but nothing new from SOE. </p><p> You either live with it or quit the game. Oh, and as for the mods in this forum? They are just as in the dark about this stuff as we are. They probobly have never even met the executives in person. Just like they were all just as fooled about the froglok thing as we were. I remember farwolf sending me a PM saying it was a "FACT" that the frogloks were in the game... haha</p></blockquote><p> Was it the people flying the black helicopters over your house, or the folks in black suits and dark sunglasses who follow you around all the time that told you about this conspiracy? <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Anywho, SOE does care, or it wouldn't be something they publically state as against the EULA.  They've taken action against it as well, but they are also not infinitely funded and, as someone stated, it's pretty much impossible to stamp the plat sellers out of existance so they obviously aren't going to be foolish enough to devout massive amounts of resources (people's time is a resource, and a rather expensive one for a business).</p><p>Why would SOE care? For a few very good reasons.  Here are 2:</p><ol><li>Plat sellers are actually a financial burden to them.  What the plat sellers create is an artifical shortening of the lifespan of a game for those who buy from them.  The buyers skip a whole lot of time they'd have to spend on actually earning things for themself.  Additionally, the buyers are much more likely to get bored and move on to other games then someone who truly spent the time, and energy, to play through the game and earn things for themself.  In terms of their game play time, they have less investment and in terms of their characters, less attachment because of this.   This equates to loss of subscription fees (as well as expansion pack purchases, etc.). This is bad for SOE.</li><li>Plat sellers introduce money into the economies at level ranges where it was not actually earned.  This causes havoc with in game economies, particularly at the lower levels.  This results in more difficulty for newer players who are not inclined to purchase plat, because prices are unreasonably inflated.    This can result in people who try the game not sticking around.  This is bad for SOE, especially because MMO's have a natural attrition rate and in order to survive they also need a slow influx of new players to compensate for lost ones.  (and yes, I'm aware that high level players' alts also cause this, but plat sellers compound and make the problem worse).</li></ol>

Tyrus Dracofire
02-21-2007, 10:57 AM
i get spams in raid zones, no matter what time of the day, nearly everytime i go raiding i get spams. and when not in raiding i do the questings, i hardly get any spams.

azekah
02-21-2007, 11:05 AM
<blockquote><p>What amazes me is that there are players like you two out there that look at an obvious problem with this game, one that drives people away....and say "Oh well, deal with it"  or something akin to that.</p></blockquote>I only get a gold seller spam at the most every hour, usually not that bad though. Honestly its not that big of a deal. I usually laugh when I get one, or shout SPAM! or something... I don't know...my point is that you can't take it so seriously. If someone actually left the game for that then obviously they didn't really care that much about it in the first place. An occasional tell from a gold seller isn't really that bad...I mean come on. It could be worse, you could be playing WoW. And as to original post, I actually just started a topic about a week ago called plat sellers=drug sellers??? which discussed what you said.

azekah
02-21-2007, 11:07 AM
Pain Divine wrote: <blockquote><p>SOE doesnt care about the spammers, the sellers or the buyers. SOE won't doing anything about it so it's part of the game now. Most likely SOE is even running one or both the websites... Creating their own gold and profiting off of it. It's disgusting, but nothing new from SOE. </p></blockquote>ROFL!!!!!!!!!!! and what proof do you have of this? do I smell BS???

Saihung23
02-21-2007, 04:22 PM
<p>I love how people have now resorted to saying that Plat spam tells are part of the game and to get used to it....that may be fine for you...but it is not fine for me.</p><p>It wasn't in game when I started.  It is not part of the game.  It may be in the game but I dont have to accept it as just "part of the gaming experience".</p><p>That whole idea of accepting it is coming from those people who live with lowered expectations.  I don't expect less from a game 3 years after starting it.  I expect MORE.  I expect it to be better.  Going from no spam tells to some every time I log in does not fit my expectations from when I bought the game.</p><p>And to those who think that I was close to quitting before getting spam tells...youre insane.  You do not know me nor do you know how much I enjoy this game. So take your uninformed opinions and stuff them right up your condescending know it all arses.</p><p>I will not use a roleplay flag to hide from the plat sellers. That is NOT why it was created and NOT what it is inteneded to be used for.   I also won't be going anonymous flagged either.  This flag was also not created to hide from sellers.</p><p>These two flags were created for different purposes, and neither have anything to do with hiding from sellers.</p><p>I think it is personally disgusting to see every tom dick and harry running around with some pink colored name simply because they want to hide.</p><p>If you want your name in pink, fine.  If that is how YOU will deal with it fine. Me? Nope, not going to do it.</p><p>I will not kowtow to the spammers nor to the people who wish to change my opinion on this matter.  I think its a problem, and should be addressed more aggressively.</p><p>You can't tell a person their OPINION is wrong.  Just as I say again and again....IF YOU DONT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT....FINE.....If I have a problem with spammers and other people have a problem with spammers...you can't tell me I am wrong to think and feel about it like I do.</p><p>It is my opinion.  It is the opinion of others.  And though you may not be of the same opinion....it does not make it wrong.</p>

azekah
02-21-2007, 09:42 PM
<cite>Saihung23 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>That whole idea of accepting it is coming from those people who live with lowered expectations.  I don't expect less from a game 3 years after starting it.  I expect MORE.  I expect it to be better.  Going from no spam tells to some every time I log in does not fit my expectations from when I bought the game.</p></blockquote> Are you trying to imply that inspite of all the changes that have been made to EQII, that just because you get a rogue tell everyone once in a while that it is worse off from when the game was first released? That all of the work that SOE has done to improve the game is for not just because of this one little issue. And YES it is not as huge an issue as you make it out to be, Honestly its just a noise and a small tell that pops on your screen? How impatient and sensitive can you be if that really makes you so angry??? As it has been talked about before, stoping plat sellers is a VERY difficult thing to do. I'm sure they haven't given up, its just a long struggle to overcome. Patience is a virtue my friend...

Chirpaa
02-22-2007, 05:39 AM
<cite>Saihung23 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>II will not use a roleplay flag to hide from the plat sellers. That is NOT why it was created and NOT what it is inteneded to be used for.   I also won't be going anonymous flagged either.  This flag was also not created to hide from sellers.</p><p>These two flags were created for different purposes, and neither have anything to do with hiding from sellers.</p><p>I think it is personally disgusting to see every tom [I cannot control my vocabulary] and harry running around with some pink colored name simply because they want to hide.</p></blockquote><p> You know, alot of the best solutions in life come from using things outside of their <i><b>intended use</b></i> in innovative and creative ways to solve an existing problem?  The ability and insight to do this is one of the things that sets apart the successful vs. the unsuccessful people in RL.   McGuyver rocked at it too, and only a bufoon would mock McGuyver!</p><p>But seriously, I actually agree with most of what you had to say.  Except your outright determination that you will not use rp or anon flags to lessen the problem for yourself, merely on conviction alone.   I've heard legitamate reasons from some folks why thy wouldn't do it...but purely out of a sense of outrage that it isn't "<i>what they were made for</i>" seems a bit .. over dramatic ... to me. lol</p><p> Clearly you're very passionate about this issue.   Honestly, I would absolutely love to see it become a non issue myself.  I'm also smart enough to know that it will NEVER be completely removed from these games and I understand business well enough to know that SOE has to be smart about how they combat it because of that; they could completely bankrupt themself pouring resources into eliminating the problem, and it still would not be "completely gone."</p><p>It's a lot like the war on drugs..  It can't be actually won...it can only be curtailed.  The question is how much money to spend for how much of a curtailing effect.  </p><p>I personally vote for the death penalty on plat sellers and those who buy from them, but that's just me.</p>

Ravaan
02-22-2007, 02:55 PM
<cite>Saihung23 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>You can't tell a person their OPINION is wrong.  </p></blockquote><p> whoa whoa whoa hold on thier kiddo, I have to ask when was the memo sent out that said an opinion cannot be wrong? I must have missed it, or maybe it was just sent in your reality. </p><p>to quote Penn and Teller ... Bull****</p><p>If i came out and say "the Holocaust was a good idea" ... that would be my opinion. so you are saying i can't be wrong? or "Osama bin laden is a good man" ... again opinion ... so not wrong? "George W Bush is a genius" ... again opinion so i must be right ... right?</p><p>I hear a lot of whining on this forum but i don't see any solutions from the whiners. All i see is "omg SoE needs to do more" and how do you know they aren't doing thier best without compromising the rest of the playerbase. </p><p>Gold selling, powerleveling and what not is a big business. It is not going away any time soon it's too profitable to go away. It will be in EQ2, and im sure gold farming and powerleveling will be in EQ5 and beyond. </p><p>So unless you have some radical idea, you are going to have to deal with it. And if you do have that radical idea, lets hear it. </p>

azekah
02-22-2007, 03:05 PM
<cite>Ravaan wrote:</cite><blockquote>Saihung23 wrote: to quote Penn and Teller ... Bull****<p>If i came out and say "the Holocaust was a good idea" ... that would be my opinion. so you are saying i can't be wrong? or "Osama bin laden is a good man" ... again opinion ... so not wrong? "George W Bush is a genius" ... again opinion so i must be right ... right?</p></blockquote>Lol, how do you base who's opinions are right or wrong? Just because you say, or a billion people say it's wrong, that doesn't make it wrong. What if 1 billion believe Osama is a great man, but another billion believe he should die? Who is right? Who makes that decision? Oh yea, no one gets to make that decision. That's why it's called an opinion, and that's why it can't be called right or wrong. You don't have the right to judge other people opinions as right or wrong just as they don't have the right to judge yours. It may not seem right, but saying I think cheese tastes great and that Osama is a great man are both opinions and you can't tell me I'm wrong because that's what I BELIEVE! (I don't actually believe Osama is great, just making a point)

Ravaan
02-22-2007, 04:05 PM
<cite>azekah wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ravaan wrote:</cite><blockquote>Saihung23 wrote: to quote Penn and Teller ... Bull**** <p>If i came out and say "the Holocaust was a good idea" ... that would be my opinion. so you are saying i can't be wrong? or "Osama bin laden is a good man" ... again opinion ... so not wrong? "George W Bush is a genius" ... again opinion so i must be right ... right?</p></blockquote>Lol, how do you base who's opinions are right or wrong? Just because you say, or a billion people say it's wrong, that doesn't make it wrong. What if 1 billion believe Osama is a great man, but another billion believe he should die? Who is right? Who makes that decision? Oh yea, no one gets to make that decision. That's why it's called an opinion, and that's why it can't be called right or wrong. You don't have the right to judge other people opinions as right or wrong just as they don't have the right to judge yours. It may not seem right, but saying I think cheese tastes great and that Osama is a great man are both opinions and you can't tell me I'm wrong because that's what I BELIEVE! (I don't actually believe Osama is great, just making a point) </blockquote><p>because of the facts, Osama Bin laden runs a terrorist organization, that has killed thousands of innocent people. So anyone that says he is a great man is WRONG because of that FACT.</p><p>the Holocaust killed nearly 6 million people, anyone saying the Holocaust is a good idea IS WRONG ... because the facts support it.</p><p>Anyone saying George W is a genius is Wrong because of things he has said or done. </p><p>if facts say other wise than the opinion is wrong. so YES opinions can be wrong. </p>

Jaggid
02-22-2007, 04:06 PM
<p>I play on Vox and still get those spam mails and tells.   Most things in nature will take the path of least resistance, humans are not excluded from this.  You see it and choose to be challenged, I applaud you for that, but you won't be able to change people minds, there will always be people that buy and sell.  It is a fact and you will be much happier to just learn to live with it.</p><p>I understand you don't want to choose to live with it and I don't blame you, but you will be stressed a lot less if you put on the blinders to it.</p>

Lord_Quaymar
02-22-2007, 04:28 PM
<cite>Saihung23 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I love how people have now resorted to saying that Plat spam tells are part of the game and to get used to it....that may be fine for you...but it is not fine for me.</p><p>It wasn't in game when I started.  It is not part of the game.  It may be in the game but I dont have to accept it as just "part of the gaming experience".</p><p>That whole idea of accepting it is coming from those people who live with lowered expectations.  I don't expect less from a game 3 years after starting it.  I expect MORE.  I expect it to be better.  Going from no spam tells to some every time I log in does not fit my expectations from when I bought the game.</p><p>And to those who think that I was close to quitting before getting spam tells...youre insane.  You do not know me nor do you know how much I enjoy this game. So take your uninformed opinions and stuff them right up your condescending know it all arses.</p><p>I will not use a roleplay flag to hide from the plat sellers. That is NOT why it was created and NOT what it is inteneded to be used for.   I also won't be going anonymous flagged either.  This flag was also not created to hide from sellers.</p><p>These two flags were created for different purposes, and neither have anything to do with hiding from sellers.</p><p>I think it is personally disgusting to see every tom [I cannot control my vocabulary] and harry running around with some pink colored name simply because they want to hide.</p><p>If you want your name in pink, fine.  If that is how YOU will deal with it fine. Me? Nope, not going to do it.</p><p>I will not kowtow to the spammers nor to the people who wish to change my opinion on this matter.  I think its a problem, and should be addressed more aggressively.</p><p>You can't tell a person their OPINION is wrong.  Just as I say again and again....IF YOU DONT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT....FINE.....If I have a problem with spammers and other people have a problem with spammers...you can't tell me I am wrong to think and feel about it like I do.</p><p>It is my opinion.  It is the opinion of others.  And though you may not be of the same opinion....it does not make it wrong.</p></blockquote><p>I can't speak for anyone else but I have never said that you don't have a right to your opinion because you do and you have every right to be annoyed by the tells and mail.</p><p>All I am saying is, just like telemarketers and junk mail IRL, you have 3 options...</p><p>1) Ignore it and move on with your life. (The best one imho)</p><p>2) Take steps such as going Anon or Role to avoid getting it in the first place like adding your phone number to a do not call list. It won't eliminate it completely but it does help. Sure, Anon/Role was not put in for THAT purpose but it most certainly works and IS a viable option nevertheless.</p><p>3) Quit playing the game.</p><p>If you refuse to do any of these things, you have only yourself to blame for your misery. Every game has this stuff (Even Vanguard after being out for only a month lol), every game fights it and every game has forums full of people complaining about it. Obviously, ranting about it on the forums will change nothing so you are really wasting your time.</p><p>Report the tell and the mail and move on. Don't let them ruin your game. My day certainly isn't ruined when I see junk mail in my mail box at home or spam in my email Inbox nor when I get a telemarketing call....why should this game be any different? </p>

azekah
02-22-2007, 07:29 PM
Ravaan wrote: <blockquote><p>because of the facts, Osama Bin laden runs a terrorist organization, that has killed thousands of innocent people. So anyone that says he is a great man is WRONG because of that FACT.</p><p>the Holocaust killed nearly 6 million people, anyone saying the Holocaust is a good idea IS WRONG ... because the facts support it.</p><p>Anyone saying George W is a genius is Wrong because of things he has said or done. </p><p>if facts say other wise than the opinion is wrong. so YES opinions can be wrong. </p></blockquote>Your argument is completely illogical... Your still missing the point. What if I am a Osama supporter and I feel that all those people he killed deserverd worse than death? I read my Koran and I believe that it supports Osama's cause. Many people around me agree with me in supporting Osama. Hmmm...according to my facts Osama is a GREAT man! So how can my opinion that Osama is great be wrong, if MY facts support it??? The problem with your argument is that the facts you present are based on YOUR OPINIONS. I.E. The opinion that Hitler did something bad. Again, what if I am a [Removed for Content] and believe what he did was right??? That my Arian heritage is the only one that deserves to inherit this earth? Then Hitler wasn't so bad, or wrong was he, atleast in MY opinion, and according to MY facts... The facts you so lovely state are based upon your OPINION of the events One more time...Just because YOU or others say something is right or wrong, does not make it right or wrong. It is simply thier opinion...haha that is a definition of an opinion. this is from dictionary.com opinion: a personal belief or judgment that is<u><b> not founded on proof or certainty</b></u>; "my opinion differs from yours"; "what are your thoughts on Haiti?" Your idea is that your opinions are right because of the facts you believe in, but no everyone agrees with you. Therefore you cannot state them as absolute... (again I don't support Osama or Hitler, just making a point <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )

StrollingWolf
02-22-2007, 07:34 PM
<p>Let's try to leave examples stemming from real life political and religious situations out of the discussion please. Political commentary is strictly prohibited here. </p><p>Thanks.</p>

Ravaan
02-22-2007, 09:06 PM
<cite>azekah wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ravaan wrote: <blockquote><p>because of the facts, Osama Bin laden runs a terrorist organization, that has killed thousands of innocent people. So anyone that says he is a great man is WRONG because of that FACT.</p><p>the Holocaust killed nearly 6 million people, anyone saying the Holocaust is a good idea IS WRONG ... because the facts support it.</p><p>Anyone saying George W is a genius is Wrong because of things he has said or done. </p><p>if facts say other wise than the opinion is wrong. so YES opinions can be wrong. </p></blockquote>Your argument is completely illogical... Your still missing the point. What if I am a Osama supporter and I feel that all those people he killed deserverd worse than death? I read my Koran and I believe that it supports Osama's cause. Many people around me agree with me in supporting Osama. Hmmm...according to my facts Osama is a GREAT man! So how can my opinion that Osama is great be wrong, if MY facts support it??? The problem with your argument is that the facts you present are based on YOUR OPINIONS. I.E. The opinion that Hitler did something bad. Again, what if I am a [I cannot control my vocabulary] and believe what he did was right??? That my Arian heritage is the only one that deserves to inherit this earth? Then Hitler wasn't so bad, or wrong was he, atleast in MY opinion, and according to MY facts... The facts you so lovely state are based upon your OPINION of the events One more time...Just because YOU or others say something is right or wrong, does not make it right or wrong. It is simply thier opinion...haha that is a definition of an opinion. this is from dictionary.com opinion: a personal belief or judgment that is<u><b> not founded on proof or certainty</b></u>; "my opinion differs from yours"; "what are your thoughts on Haiti?" Your idea is that your opinions are right because of the facts you believe in, but no everyone agrees with you. Therefore you cannot state them as absolute... (again I don't support Osama or Hitler, just making a point <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ) </blockquote><p>I think its widely accepted that killing innocent people means that someone is a monster and not great. Just because someone reads it in thier religious book does not make it fact.</p><p> Fact - Knowledge or information based on real occurences</p><p>So that already rules out the religious bullcrap.</p><p>and its not just me or some other joe schmoe saying that, most CIVILIZED countries have taken the fact that killing innocent people is um wrong. thats not religious nonsense thats FACT. just because some extremeist nutjobs doesn't believe in that, does not mean thier opinions are ok. </p>

Zaviur
02-22-2007, 09:22 PM
<p>Anyone remember the discount code they send?  <img src="/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  NM I'll just wait 30 min I'm sure i'll get it again.</p>

Shailas
02-23-2007, 02:29 AM
<cite>TheresaN wrote:</cite><blockquote>I personally vote for the death penalty on plat sellers and those who buy from them, but that's just me.</blockquote> I'm with you there.  I hate them and hate what they do.  I get one to two tells a hour or so.  I even had one that had decent English complain to me that their shift was 12 hours long.  I told them to go to hell...the jerks.

Chirpaa
02-23-2007, 04:11 AM
<cite>azekah wrote:</cite><blockquote>Lol, how do you base who's opinions are right or wrong? Just because you say, or a billion people say it's wrong, that doesn't make it wrong. What if 1 billion believe Osama is a great man, but another billion believe he should die? Who is right? Who makes that decision? Oh yea, no one gets to make that decision. That's <b>why it's called an opinion, and that's why it can't be called right or wrong</b>. You don't have the right to judge other people opinions as right or wrong just as they don't have the right to judge yours. It may not seem right, but saying I think cheese tastes great and that Osama is a great man are both opinions and you can't tell me I'm wrong because that's what I BELIEVE! (I don't actually believe Osama is great, just making a point) </blockquote><p> It is my opinion that you are wrong about this.  Using your own logic, you can't say my opinion is wrong, therefore you are.</p><p><img src="/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Aanak
02-23-2007, 05:46 AM
<p>I haven't read the entire thread... but got to a part where someone said something to the effect of "If you have a solution" post it instead of just posting the problem... </p><p>SOE, please add a "accept /tells from known sources" option (or "reject tells from unknown/unseen sources") which would allow us to only take direct tells from people on our friends list or in our guild or in the immediate area (say range + a few meters or so so people looking at me can whisper to me). Have it auto disable when /lfg or lfw tag goes up and re-enable once back down.</p><p>Other than guild or friends, if they aren't standing in front of me (where they can use /say) and I don't know them, they shouldn't be "whispering" in my ear from 3 zones away anyway.</p><p>An option like this would totally solve the problem I think.</p><p>Just my 2 coppers.</p><p>Nihyn -- Guk</p>

Chirpaa
02-23-2007, 06:03 AM
<cite>Aanak wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I haven't read the entire thread... but got to a part where someone said something to the effect of "If you have a solution" post it instead of just posting the problem... </p><p>SOE, please add a "accept /tells from known sources" option (or "reject tells from unknown/unseen sources&quot<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> which would allow us to only take direct tells from people on our friends list or in our guild or in the immediate area (say range + a few meters or so so people looking at me can whisper to me). Have it auto disable when /lfg or lfw tag goes up and re-enable once back down.</p><p>Other than guild or friends, if they aren't standing in front of me (where they can use /say) and I don't know them, they shouldn't be "whispering" in my ear from 3 zones away anyway.</p><p>An option like this would totally solve the problem I think.</p><p>Just my 2 coppers.</p><p>Nihyn -- Guk</p></blockquote><p>/signed</p><p>This is a PERFECT solution, in my opinion.  And I would think it would be very easy to code.  I've mentioned it before myself.</p><p>My thought is there has to be a reason they haven't done this. It's a social game, perhaps they don't want people to have a way to avoid social exchanges except on a one person at a time basis (via ignore).? </p>

bongo12
02-23-2007, 07:18 AM
<p>To me its no deal, i dont let small things bother me when playing, so what i got a /tell asking me to buy gold... erm... just ignore it, its not like it causes your character to stop running or sit down, its only a bit of purple text in one of your chat boxes. As for mail spam... ooooo, i think i'll hit the report button and move on, again no big deal.</p><p>These things are part and parcel of mmo's, it comes with the territory and if a company the size of blizzard whose making the kind of revenue they do each month cant get rid of it, then SOE hasnt a hope in hell of stopping it.</p><p>Besides im sure SOE & Blizz ban loads of accounts on a daily basis and devote as much resources as they can to it, other than that what else is it they can do? nothing. So get used to it, if your that easily annoyed by trivial insignificant things, you really shouldn't be playing mmo's, better to play solitare.... by yourself.</p>

Lord_Quaymar
02-23-2007, 10:43 AM
<cite>bongo1234 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>To me its no deal, i dont let small things bother me when playing, so what i got a /tell asking me to buy gold... erm... just ignore it, its not like it causes your character to stop running or sit down, its only a bit of purple text in one of your chat boxes. As for mail spam... ooooo, i think i'll hit the report button and move on, again no big deal.</p><p>These things are part and parcel of mmo's, it comes with the territory and if a company the size of blizzard whose making the kind of revenue they do each month cant get rid of it, then SOE hasnt a hope in hell of stopping it.</p><p>Besides im sure SOE & Blizz ban loads of accounts on a daily basis and devote as much resources as they can to it, other than that what else is it they can do? nothing. So get used to it, if your that easily annoyed by trivial insignificant things, you really shouldn't be playing mmo's, better to play solitare.... by yourself.</p></blockquote>Yep...I couldn't agree more. I get junk mail, telemarketing calls and spam in my email box IRL and it doesn't ruin my day....why should this game be any different? Just report it and move on. Why waste emotional energy and allow it to upset you?

Spyderbite
02-23-2007, 03:31 PM
<cite>TheresaN wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>My thought is there has to be a reason they haven't done this. It's a social game, perhaps they don't want people to have a way to avoid social exchanges except on a one person at a time basis (via ignore).? </p></blockquote> Exactly. I enjoy getting /tells from people I've never met before. Including but not limited to members of other guilds that I've just fought with or against telling me "thanks for the help" or "nice fight". By only accepting /tells from people on my guild roster or friends list I'm cutting off communication to everyone but my own little circle of acquaintances. As a result, I'm missing out on the opportunity to meet new people, form new friendships or adversaries and in the end defeating the purpose of playing an MMORPG. I blogged my thoughts on this early today but in my opinion there's already a mechanic in game to prevent the spamming or at least limit it considerably. Unfortunately, some people refuse to adapt to these options (RP & Anon tags) and prefer to wait for SoE to find a solution. In the meantime they'll just continue to complain about it here because said fix wasn't implemented yesterday. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

azekah
02-23-2007, 03:34 PM
<cite>Shailas wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>TheresaN wrote:</cite><blockquote>I personally vote for the death penalty on plat sellers and those who buy from them, but that's just me.</blockquote> I'm with you there.  I hate them and hate what they do.  I get one to two tells a hour or so.  I even had one that had decent English complain to me that their shift was 12 hours long.  I told them to go to hell...the jerks.</blockquote>You do realize that a lot of the people who work for these companies live in very poor countries or areas and don't have the economy or opportunities that you have. Or if your a kid, they certainly don't have parents who would ever pay for you to play a computer game. Obviously you have never been out of this amazingly blessed country where most of the world considers even the average income here as extremely rich. Obviously you don't have any respect or care for people that are worse off than you. And for you to tell someone to go to hell because they are complaining about having a horrible job, for horrible pay, and horrible working conditions is truly heartless. If I were you, I would tell you to go to hell for being like that, but then I'm not you am I. I actually understand how lucky I am to live in the US and am not so spoiled and conceited to the point that if something interrupts a GAME I am playing that I lash out like that on someone who is stuck in a condition like that. I suggest you take a trip out of the US at some point in your life and see what the world is REALLY like for most people.

Aanak
02-23-2007, 05:09 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><cite>TheresaN wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>My thought is there has to be a reason they haven't done this. It's a social game, perhaps they don't want people to have a way to avoid social exchanges except on a one person at a time basis (via ignore).? </p></blockquote> Exactly. I enjoy getting /tells from people I've never met before. Including but not limited to members of other guilds that I've just fought with or against telling me "thanks for the help" or "nice fight". By only accepting /tells from people on my guild roster or friends list I'm cutting off communication to everyone but my own little circle of acquaintances. As a result, I'm missing out on the opportunity to meet new people, form new friendships or adversaries and in the end defeating the purpose of playing an MMORPG. I blogged my thoughts on this early today but in my opinion there's already a mechanic in game to prevent the spamming or at least limit it considerably. Unfortunately, some people refuse to adapt to these options (RP & Anon tags) and prefer to wait for SoE to find a solution. In the meantime they'll just continue to complain about it here because said fix wasn't implemented yesterday. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote><p>Well, with an Option to disable anon tells, you would still be able to get those tells from people you never met before, while other people could opt not to. Also, if they could code it so that someone near you (maybe out of /say range but close enough to see you) could /tell you then you still could get tells from new people passing by asking if you want help, etc., but would eliminate the spam from anon people 3 zones away. And like I said, you could disable such filter if they made it an option.</p><p>That said, the spam doesn't bother me, I just ignore it and would probably run with such an option turned off as well. But it is a good option to help the people who it does bother.</p><p>Nihyn--Guk </p>

Smashkilleat
02-23-2007, 05:24 PM
Lord_Quaymar wrote:<blockquote><p>All I am saying is, just like telemarketers and junk mail IRL, you have 3 options...</p><p>1) Ignore it and move on with your life. (The best one imho)</p><p>2) Take steps such as going Anon or Role to avoid getting it in the first place like adding your phone number to a do not call list. It won't eliminate it completely but it does help. Sure, Anon/Role was not put in for THAT purpose but it most certainly works and IS a viable option nevertheless.</p><p>3) Quit playing the game.</p></blockquote>4) Ask SOE to implement code that makes it harder for plat farmers to bother players & ply their trade. 5) Raise the issue on forums (where those who don't agree are free to ignore and move on -- keep chat channel complaining to a minimum though), to send the message that plat buying isn't cool, is against the EULA, wrecks the economy, "ages" the server that much faster. 6) Report spammers. 7) Avoid knowingly buying items from farmers. 8. Start a guild with no-ebay rules and enforce those rules. Seriously, there are plenty of things you can do other than knuckle under and accept a bad situation -- which is a bad habit to get into anyhow. And most of those things don't involve ruining the game experience for you or anyone else.  But if there's a problem, that problem is going to stay around until somebody does something about it. It took 30 years to get a national Do Not Call registry, 30 years of telemarketers annoying all of us at dinner before a few enterprising people finally got fed up enough to do something about it. It took twelve years (1991-2003) after the law was passed making it illegal to call a 'delisted' phone number to get the Do Not Call registry up and running. There's no reason to freak out about gold spam. But there's no reason to give up on the problem, either.

Volkscience
02-23-2007, 05:28 PM
A quick google search reveals what seems like well over 100 different sites selling farmed plat. Yet the only spam I've ever gotten is from gmworker.com In fact their spam message has become a running joke among my guild, mostly because of the Engrish it uses. "Safe gold, powerlevel service!" What the heck is "safe gold" and is it better than "dangerous gold?" Anyway, it doesn't really bug me anymore, I've sort of moved past it. Some days I get 3 or 4 of them, and other times a whole week can go by where I get none. I've just tuned it out. BTW SAFE GOLD!!!!!

Sotaudi
02-23-2007, 05:47 PM
<p>Double post...move along...nothing to see here.</p>

Sotaudi
02-23-2007, 05:55 PM
<cite>azekah wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shailas wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>TheresaN wrote:</cite><blockquote>I personally vote for the death penalty on plat sellers and those who buy from them, but that's just me.</blockquote> I'm with you there.  I hate them and hate what they do.  I get one to two tells a hour or so.  I even had one that had decent English complain to me that their shift was 12 hours long.  I told them to go to hell...the jerks.</blockquote>You do realize that a lot of the people who work for these companies live in very poor countries or areas and don't have the economy or opportunities that you have. Or if your a kid, they certainly don't have parents who would ever pay for you to play a computer game. Obviously you have never been out of this amazingly blessed country where most of the world considers even the average income here as extremely rich. Obviously you don't have any respect or care for people that are worse off than you. And for you to tell someone to go to hell because they are complaining about having a horrible job, for horrible pay, and horrible working conditions is truly heartless. If I were you, I would tell you to go to hell for being like that, but then I'm not you am I. I actually understand how lucky I am to live in the US and am not so spoiled and conceited to the point that if something interrupts a GAME I am playing that I lash out like that on someone who is stuck in a condition like that. I suggest you take a trip out of the US at some point in your life and see what the world is REALLY like for most people. </blockquote><p>If this was not so inane, it would almost be funny.  Try doing a little research.  Not everyone involved in this process is some poor kid living in a dirt hut with no other opportunities.  The truth is, most are not there because they have no other opportunities, but, rather, because this is easy money.  By contrast, how would you react if you found out your local retailer was selling clothes that were being manufactured in some sweatshop in those same countries?  I somehow doubt I would hear you justifying the process saying, "But the people manufacturing those items are living in poor conditions and do not have the same opportunities as you."  I somehow suspect that you would be ranting about how the retailer is exploiting the little man, and start calling for a boycott.</p><p>If you had done a little research, you would know that one of the gripes of these "farming" businesses is that they have to sell their "wares" to plat brokers who make the real money.  So there is no difference between this process and a sweatshop, but at least the people working in sweatshops are actually working and producing tangible goods.  What are these people doing?  They are playing a video game.  They are producing nothing.  But at the same time, they are knowingly violating the agreements that allowed them into the game, they are ruining game economies, and they are helping others to cheat and gain an unfair advantage.  All the while, they are making easy money despite the hours.</p><p>I hardly find any reason to sympathize with someone who is willing to be unethical, who is willing to cheat and to encourage others to cheat, in order to make some extra cash.</p>

Sotaudi
02-23-2007, 09:14 PM
<cite>azekah wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ravaan wrote:</cite><blockquote>Saihung23 wrote: to quote Penn and Teller ... Bull**** <p>If i came out and say "the Holocaust was a good idea" ... that would be my opinion. so you are saying i can't be wrong? or "Osama bin laden is a good man" ... again opinion ... so not wrong? "George W Bush is a genius" ... again opinion so i must be right ... right?</p></blockquote>Lol, how do you base who's opinions are right or wrong? Just because you say, or a billion people say it's wrong, that doesn't make it wrong. What if 1 billion believe Osama is a great man, but another billion believe he should die? Who is right? Who makes that decision? Oh yea, no one gets to make that decision. That's why it's called an opinion, and that's why it can't be called right or wrong. You don't have the right to judge other people opinions as right or wrong just as they don't have the right to judge yours. It may not seem right, but saying I think cheese tastes great and that Osama is a great man are both opinions and you can't tell me I'm wrong because that's what I BELIEVE! (I don't actually believe Osama is great, just making a point) </blockquote><p>Clearly, you need to learn the difference between the concept of having a right to an opinion and having a right opinion.  You have the right to hold whatever opinion you want.  But fortunately, reality is not shaped by anyone's opinion.  Likewise, unfortunately, because people are often willing to reject reality in favor of their opinions, opinions are not necessarily shaped by reality.  Thus, your opinion can be right, or it can be wrong, and just because you have a right to conclude something does not mean that everything you conclude is right.</p><p>Thus, you cannot tell others that they cannot criticizse your opinion.  I have to laugh at the utter irony of that suggestion.   You are honestly going to sit there and tell someone who has the opinion that your opinion is wrong that they are wrong for saying that because you believe that no one can call opinions wrong?  That is more than a little hypocritical, don't you think?</p><p>To elaborate, let us say, building on your examples, that there were a billion people who believe that cheese "is a good man."  Let us also say that there are another billion people who believe that the other billion people are complete loons for believing a congealed dairy product is a good man.  Who is right?  Personally, I would have to say that the latter are correct.  The first billion people are, in fact, loons.  They are wrong, and just because it is their right to hold that opinion does not change that fact.  It is entirely possible to hold a wrong opinion, which means it is entirely possible to call someone else's opinion wrong.</p><p>But that is not your biggest problem.  You biggest problem is that, if no one can call an opinion wrong, then neither can you believe that an opinion, even your own, is right.  You cannot have it both ways.  Either others have the right to say your opinion is wrong, or you have no right to assert that your opinion could be right because the mere suggestion automatically states that any contrary opinion must, therefore, be wrong.</p><p>Everyone has the right to an opinion.  Everyone listening to that opinion has the obligation to consider it on its merits.  But they also have the obligation to accept that opinion, reject that opinion, or set it aside as inconclusive.  So in answer to your question as to "Who decides," the answer is simple.  I do.  You do.  Everyone does.  Everyone decides whether or not an opinion has merit, whether or not it is right or wrong.  And since everyone has a right to express their opinion, everyone can call any opinion right or wrong.  You can express a contrary opinion, but you have no right to tell them that they cannot call your opinion wrong.</p><p>Oh, and by the way, trying to strike a moral eqivalency between believing that a mass murderer who has the expressed goal of inflicting his beliefs on the rest of the world and believing that cheese is good only points out the absudity of believing that no opinion can be wrong.</p><p>In conclusion:</p><p>Cheese is good.</p><p>Osama is evil.</p><p>You are wrong.</p>

AntLi
02-24-2007, 08:40 AM
<cite>bensilvi wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>/yawn</p><p>Wow this is the first post i have ever seen like this.</p></blockquote> Yes they'll be many more until people like you stop buying from the plat farmers. The only reason for you to *yawn* at topics dealing with this sort of thing is your actively involved in plat buying. This is an important thing to discuss no matter how many threads are made for those of us who play the game properly and in a selfless manner.

Lord_Quaymar
02-24-2007, 11:06 AM
<cite>Smashkilleat wrote:</cite><blockquote>Lord_Quaymar wrote: <blockquote><p>All I am saying is, just like telemarketers and junk mail IRL, you have 3 options...</p><p>1) Ignore it and move on with your life. (The best one imho)</p><p>2) Take steps such as going Anon or Role to avoid getting it in the first place like adding your phone number to a do not call list. It won't eliminate it completely but it does help. Sure, Anon/Role was not put in for THAT purpose but it most certainly works and IS a viable option nevertheless.</p><p>3) Quit playing the game.</p></blockquote>4) Ask SOE to implement code that makes it harder for plat farmers to bother players & ply their trade. 5) Raise the issue on forums (where those who don't agree are free to ignore and move on -- keep chat channel complaining to a minimum though), to send the message that plat buying isn't cool, is against the EULA, wrecks the economy, "ages" the server that much faster. 6) Report spammers. 7) Avoid knowingly buying items from farmers. 8. Start a guild with no-ebay rules and enforce those rules. Seriously, there are plenty of things you can do other than knuckle under and accept a bad situation -- which is a bad habit to get into anyhow. And most of those things don't involve ruining the game experience for you or anyone else.  But if there's a problem, that problem is going to stay around until somebody does something about it. It took 30 years to get a national Do Not Call registry, 30 years of telemarketers annoying all of us at dinner before a few enterprising people finally got fed up enough to do something about it. It took twelve years (1991-2003) after the law was passed making it illegal to call a 'delisted' phone number to get the Do Not Call registry up and running. There's no reason to freak out about gold spam. But there's no reason to give up on the problem, either.</blockquote><p>4) That's already been done 16234825423547 times and SoE has and is doing the best they can with it.</p><p>5) Continually complaining about it on the forums is now at the point where it is completely laughable. I don't really think it serves any purpose other than to make people feel better after venting. And it has already been proven that it does not wreck the economy.</p><p>6) Well....uhh....of course.</p><p>7) There is nothing wrong with buying items from farmers...we are all farmers. You mean avoid buying items from plat sellers....well, since they have the lowest prices and help the economy by creating more competition and driving prices lower, I doubt that this will ever happen.</p><p>8) No ebay rules....interesting. And how on earth would one enforce that? How could you possibly prove someone actually "ebayed"? Anyhow....this won't stop plat sellers and buyers.</p><p>Given that there isn't a single original idea in your post that hasn't been done or tried already....YES, you do have to "knuckle under" and deal with it....you have no other choice really. Like it or not, that's the way it is and always will be.</p><p>LOL...yeah...and how effective is that Do Not Call Registry? I STILL get calls and mail.</p><p>Yes, there is no rational reason to freak out over it. Just like real life....ignore it and move on. It will not be going away any time soon no matter how many threads are created regarding this dead and rotted horse. </p>

sayitaintso
02-24-2007, 02:13 PM
Think about this... SOE hasn't the will to stop the plat sellers and buyers....period.. Almost every community web site, Alakazam, Ogaming, ect allow the plat sellers to advertise on their site...or have links to sites that do...SOE could also put a stop to this. They sanction these sites. Simply pulling their permission to use EQ2 logos, informations and the like would put them out of business... SO do you really think SOE has any intention of ever stopping in game plat spamming? THEY PROFIT FROM IT!

Lord_Quaymar
02-24-2007, 02:41 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>Think about this... SOE hasn't the will to stop the plat sellers and buyers....period.. Almost every community web site, Alakazam, Ogaming, ect allow the plat sellers to advertise on their site...or have links to sites that do...SOE could also put a stop to this. They sanction these sites. Simply pulling their permission to use EQ2 logos, informations and the like would put them out of business... SO do you really think SOE has any intention of ever stopping in game plat spamming? THEY PROFIT FROM IT! </blockquote><p> Just because unrelated (Meaning not SoE affiliated) web sites advertise the stuff (It isn't illegal) does not mean SoE supports it...they cannot stop them. Saying they don't have the will to stop it because it continues to happen is like saying the police don't have any will because crimes are still commited which we all know is completely ludicrous.</p><p>Yes, they profit from banning them and having them buy another new account but that's about it.</p>

Badaxe Ba
02-24-2007, 03:03 PM
<p>Anon or RP doesn't stop spam tells, thats a joke/myth.  A simple /w all command gives names of everyone who is online playing.  I play on an RP server.  I am tagged RP.  and yet I can still get tells from gold sellers.  Hell, last nite I got two within a five minute period from two different sellers, and had to actually wait to report the second one because SOE has a five minute timer on the /report function!  Thats five minutes of my life I can never reclaim <img src="/smilies/c30b4198e0907b23b8246bdd52aa1c3c.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>I sincerely believe that a root problem is the buyers.  These are the ones who feed the sellers, from whatever country they hail from.  They are the part of the equation that exasperate the problem, because they are in collusion with the sellers.  Their problem is the inability to overcome the "get it easy and fast" temptation.  They are also the ones who post against any who complain.  thats right, you are either for it or against it, so get real.  I have no doubts that if you post here saying anything for gold sellers, you are in fact a buyer with a guilty conscience.  this is my opinion, and it may be wrong, but it is what I believe.  Why else would anyone condone/approve/encourage cheaters?</p>

Vy
02-24-2007, 04:58 PM
<p>I got extremely aggravated the other day when I took a 10+ minute detour to check my mail (which I rarely get) thinking it was a guildie. I turned red once I realized that it was a bloody plat selling email.  Not only did in infuriate me, but I spent the next 5 minutes ranting in guild chat. I've gotten to where a quick /report on the tells is second nature now, but getting it through the mail system, is FAR worse.</p><p>Not only did I get it on my main, but on several of my toons.  2 of which had been offline for a month had a message sent the same day!</p><p>There is 1 possible way to get some of this filtered, that SOE can do, it just will take time.  That is to add a filter or ignore system to tells that allows for keywords to be blocked.</p><p>Instead of ignoring Plhgbxu (which changes constantly), I want to ignore GMWorker (or any tell that has this in the name). This is definatly possible, and I hope will soon be a viable way of making our playing experience better.  *crosses fingers*</p>

Spyderbite
02-24-2007, 05:02 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>Anon or RP doesn't stop spam tells, thats a joke/myth. </p></blockquote>Eh? I get maybe one or two a week... I've been tagged RP since I rolled my characters. There are times where I can go two weeks without a spam. Perhaps they think I'm poor.. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Mr. Dawki
02-24-2007, 05:03 PM
<p>I dont see why SOE cant implament a costom word filter that can be adapted by the users</p><p>just like an ignore list we can add words to the filter if a tell or mail has that word in it it is screened out then SOE does not have to keep up to date on how the plat sellers are adapting the users can</p><p>simple no?</p>

sayitaintso
02-24-2007, 05:19 PM
<cite>Lord_Quaymar wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>Think about this... SOE hasn't the will to stop the plat sellers and buyers....period.. Almost every community web site, Alakazam, Ogaming, ect allow the plat sellers to advertise on their site...or have links to sites that do...SOE could also put a stop to this. They sanction these sites. Simply pulling their permission to use EQ2 logos, informations and the like would put them out of business... SO do you really think SOE has any intention of ever stopping in game plat spamming? THEY PROFIT FROM IT! </blockquote><p> Just because unrelated (Meaning not SoE affiliated) web sites advertise the stuff (It isn't illegal) does not mean SoE supports it...they cannot stop them. Saying they don't have the will to stop it because it continues to happen is like saying the police don't have any will because crimes are still commited which we all know is completely ludicrous.</p><p>Yes, they profit from banning them and having them buy another new account but that's about it.</p></blockquote>Wrong sir....the own every tiny bit of information regarding EQ2..Read your EULA. The intellecual rights are owned by SOE therefore they can pick and chose to whom they grant permission to even mention the name of the game, let alone any information regarding ANY aspect of the game. Quest spoilers, character creation guides, itemization stats ANYTHING. They could forbid any of the community sites to post ANYTHING about EQ2 if they wished, yet they do not so that. By not doing that, they are condoning the sale of in game coin by promoting the sites that have advertising or directed links to the sites that do... SOE doesn't appear to give a crap that players are annoyed by the plat sellers spam, the sellers themselves or the cheaters that buy the plat from them....<i>It's all about the $$...</i>They not only profit from continue bannings of spammers accounts, but they profit from having their name advertised all over the community sites that host plat seller advertising....Profit is their only motive...It sort of has to be since the game has lost more than 50% of it's subscribers since it's peak 18 or so months ago...

Mr. Dawki
02-24-2007, 05:27 PM
<blockquote>It sort of has to be since the game has lost more than 50% of it's subscribers since it's peak 18 or so months ago... </blockquote><p> OH OH OH i got this one</p><p>BECAUSE THEIR CUSTOMER SERVICE SUCKS NOODLE!!!? (ie. not taking care of plat spam like we have been asking for 2 years now)</p><p>that may be why they are loosing their players</p>

sayitaintso
02-24-2007, 05:30 PM
OK for the record..../report will do nothing and is absolutely USELESS...it's actually exactly why SOE will NOT stop the plat spammers..heres how it appears to work.. the spammers use a 3rd party program to mine the names of players online..it takes them seconds.. They use the moned list to generate auto tells using the same software...Last night my wife and I got the same tell from the same named spammer within 2 seconds of each other...no one is sitting at the keyboard typing those messages...They can spam 6 servers at one time per account... rgsfgfsd sends you an in game tell for safe plat and fast power leveling... you /report along with many others who got the same message.. SOE subsequently bans that account... the spammers download another account for $20 from one of several direct download sites....which they recoup on their first sale.... SO SOE makes a profit on the account sale, the spammers make a profit on their forst sale..and the only ones that lose are the end receivers of the spam....the players... so why in the world would SOE want to put an end to making money???? you tell me.. because they don't sell the direct downloads themselves, they can't put a flag on the credit card (S) used to buy the account..... So when will it stop....it won't...get use to cheaters in this game...

sayitaintso
02-24-2007, 05:33 PM
Mr. Dawkins wrote: <blockquote><blockquote>It sort of has to be since the game has lost more than 50% of it's subscribers since it's peak 18 or so months ago... </blockquote><p> OH OH OH i got this one</p><p>BECAUSE THEIR CUSTOMER SERVICE SUCKS NOODLE!!!? (ie. not taking care of plat spam like we have been asking for 2 years now)</p><p>that may be why they are loosing their players</p></blockquote>Yeah, that would play a large part of it...that, and the DEVS inability to keep their nosepickers off the game mechanics.. Content changes = good Mechanic changes = BAD unless they are fixing something that is BROKEN.. case in point...Mounts backward speed was not broken....it is now.... SOE devs haven't seemed to figure out that there is a huge difference...

Hammer4
02-24-2007, 08:14 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><cite>Lord_Quaymar wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>Think about this... SOE hasn't the will to stop the plat sellers and buyers....period.. Almost every community web site, Alakazam, Ogaming, ect allow the plat sellers to advertise on their site...or have links to sites that do...SOE could also put a stop to this. They sanction these sites. Simply pulling their permission to use EQ2 logos, informations and the like would put them out of business... SO do you really think SOE has any intention of ever stopping in game plat spamming? THEY PROFIT FROM IT! </blockquote><p> Just because unrelated (Meaning not SoE affiliated) web sites advertise the stuff (It isn't illegal) does not mean SoE supports it...they cannot stop them. Saying they don't have the will to stop it because it continues to happen is like saying the police don't have any will because crimes are still commited which we all know is completely ludicrous.</p><p>Yes, they profit from banning them and having them buy another new account but that's about it.</p></blockquote>Wrong sir....the own every tiny bit of information regarding EQ2..Read your EULA. The intellecual rights are owned by SOE therefore they can pick and chose to whom they grant permission to even mention the name of the game, let alone any information regarding ANY aspect of the game. Quest spoilers, character creation guides, itemization stats ANYTHING. They could forbid any of the community sites to post ANYTHING about EQ2 if they wished, yet they do not so that. By not doing that, they are condoning the sale of in game coin by promoting the sites that have advertising or directed links to the sites that do... SOE doesn't appear to give a crap that players are annoyed by the plat sellers spam, the sellers themselves or the cheaters that buy the plat from them....<i>It's all about the $$...</i>They not only profit from continue bannings of spammers accounts, but they profit from having their name advertised all over the community sites that host plat seller advertising....Profit is their only motive...It sort of has to be since the game has lost more than 50% of it's subscribers since it's peak 18 or so months ago... </blockquote><p> I'm sure SOE cares just as much as the rest of us do about plat selling and spam, but the last time they busted plat sellers there was such a ravening tide of misspelled broken English posts complaining about someone's husband being a legitimate person transferring plat to random people for very good reasons that they are probably completely discouraged about the whole thing.  </p><p>This is more a community problem than anything else.  Any time someone posts an idea suggesting that plat selling is bad, or plat farming is bad, or that maybe people shouldn't have scatological names, a horde of libertarian neckbeards slithers out of the woodwork to inveigh against The Man and His Rules.  No wonder SOE can't keep a forum moderator or CS coordinator around more than a few months.  I spend 15-20 minutes reading the forums 4 or 5 times a week and I've already identified a couple dozen people who need to be liquidated.  If I had to deal with these people all day everyday I'd be going all Unabomber on their butts.</p>

Mr. Dawki
02-24-2007, 08:27 PM
<p>You know what would be realy interesting....is if someone here. one of us that post here in the forums were to get a job at GM worker, and find out for sure if SOE realy is doing anything that they say they are.</p><p> or you know what dont even go that far. go out and buy a $14 game card and start a new agount. spam as many people as posible as a test and see what SOE does</p>

Badaxe Ba
02-24-2007, 09:10 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><p>Anon or RP doesn't stop spam tells, thats a joke/myth. </p></blockquote>Eh? I get maybe one or two a week... I've been tagged RP since I rolled my characters. There are times where I can go two weeks without a spam. Perhaps they think I'm poor.. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote>I'm glad for you.  My point is that an anon tag or an RP tag, DOES NOT stop the tells, or even slow them down.  This isn't an option that offers any success period.  Test me.  Log on, type the command /w all, and if there are a hundred players online, you will get 100 names, including anon and RP players in that mix.

sayitaintso
02-25-2007, 03:29 AM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><cite>Lord_Quaymar wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>Think about this... SOE hasn't the will to stop the plat sellers and buyers....period.. Almost every community web site, Alakazam, Ogaming, ect allow the plat sellers to advertise on their site...or have links to sites that do...SOE could also put a stop to this. They sanction these sites. Simply pulling their permission to use EQ2 logos, informations and the like would put them out of business... SO do you really think SOE has any intention of ever stopping in game plat spamming? THEY PROFIT FROM IT! </blockquote><p> Just because unrelated (Meaning not SoE affiliated) web sites advertise the stuff (It isn't illegal) does not mean SoE supports it...they cannot stop them. Saying they don't have the will to stop it because it continues to happen is like saying the police don't have any will because crimes are still commited which we all know is completely ludicrous.</p><p>Yes, they profit from banning them and having them buy another new account but that's about it.</p></blockquote>Wrong sir....the own every tiny bit of information regarding EQ2..Read your EULA. The intellecual rights are owned by SOE therefore they can pick and chose to whom they grant permission to even mention the name of the game, let alone any information regarding ANY aspect of the game. Quest spoilers, character creation guides, itemization stats ANYTHING. They could forbid any of the community sites to post ANYTHING about EQ2 if they wished, yet they do not so that. By not doing that, they are condoning the sale of in game coin by promoting the sites that have advertising or directed links to the sites that do... SOE doesn't appear to give a crap that players are annoyed by the plat sellers spam, the sellers themselves or the cheaters that buy the plat from them....<i>It's all about the $$...</i>They not only profit from continue bannings of spammers accounts, but they profit from having their name advertised all over the community sites that host plat seller advertising....Profit is their only motive...It sort of has to be since the game has lost more than 50% of it's subscribers since it's peak 18 or so months ago... </blockquote><p> I'm sure SOE cares just as much as the rest of us do about plat selling and spam, but the last time they busted plat sellers there was such a ravening tide of misspelled broken English posts complaining about someone's husband being a legitimate person transferring plat to random people for very good reasons that they are probably completely discouraged about the whole thing.  </p><p>This is more a community problem than anything else.  Any time someone posts an idea suggesting that plat selling is bad, or plat farming is bad, or that maybe people shouldn't have scatological names, a horde of libertarian neckbeards slithers out of the woodwork to inveigh against The Man and His Rules.  No wonder SOE can't keep a forum moderator or CS coordinator around more than a few months.  I spend 15-20 minutes reading the forums 4 or 5 times a week and I've already identified a couple dozen people who need to be liquidated.  If I had to deal with these people all day everyday I'd be going all Unabomber on their butts.</p></blockquote>You are forgetting something that apparently most players do...this is a for profit product...SOE has had ample time and plenty of suggestion to stop the in game spam and does nothing...No I don't believe for a minute that they care about it..if they did they would put a stop to the in game advertising AND the advertising located on their community web pages....but they don't.

Owilliams
02-25-2007, 07:17 AM
<cite>Lord_Quaymar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>bongo1234 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>To me its no deal, i dont let small things bother me when playing, so what i got a /tell asking me to buy gold... erm... just ignore it, its not like it causes your character to stop running or sit down, its only a bit of purple text in one of your chat boxes. As for mail spam... ooooo, i think i'll hit the report button and move on, again no big deal.</p><p>These things are part and parcel of mmo's, it comes with the territory and if a company the size of blizzard whose making the kind of revenue they do each month cant get rid of it, then SOE hasnt a hope in hell of stopping it.</p><p>Besides im sure SOE & Blizz ban loads of accounts on a daily basis and devote as much resources as they can to it, other than that what else is it they can do? nothing. So get used to it, if your that easily annoyed by trivial insignificant things, you really shouldn't be playing mmo's, better to play solitare.... by yourself.</p></blockquote>Yep...I couldn't agree more. I get junk mail, telemarketing calls and spam in my email box IRL and it doesn't ruin my day....why should this game be any different? Just report it and move on. Why waste emotional energy and allow it to upset you? </blockquote><p> But you seem to be wasting emotional energy by repeatedly railing against those that have issue with the spam situation.</p><p>You bring humor to my day, thanks.</p><p>I can tell you this... </p><p>If players don't like something, they make enough noise about it and things get changed. It's how EQ works, I don't think I need to give examples... they are all around us.</p><p>Anyone feeling that bending over and dropping their "virtual pants" for the plat pharmers and sellers, feel free, but I don't happen to swing that way, so I'll continue to report and lodge my opinion here at the forums. There are still many things SOE can do to make life harder for the spammers, we just have to continue letting them know we find the current situation unacceptable.</p><p>Those of you continually attacking these threads are basically just "attacking the messenger". Rather misguided at best, argumentative and trollish at worst.</p><p>Happy Gaming,</p><p>--Orv</p>

azekah
02-26-2007, 03:43 PM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>So SOE makes a profit on the account sale, the spammers make a profit on their forst sale..and the only ones that lose are the end receivers of the spam....the players... so why in the world would SOE want to put an end to making money???? you tell me.. </blockquote> Lol, this doesn't really make sense. They get most of their money from the players.

azekah
02-26-2007, 03:44 PM
<cite>Sotaudi wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>azekah wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ravaan wrote:</cite><blockquote>Saihung23 wrote: to quote Penn and Teller ... Bull**** <p>If i came out and say "the Holocaust was a good idea" ... that would be my opinion. so you are saying i can't be wrong? or "Osama bin laden is a good man" ... again opinion ... so not wrong? "George W Bush is a genius" ... again opinion so i must be right ... right?</p></blockquote>Lol, how do you base who's opinions are right or wrong? Just because you say, or a billion people say it's wrong, that doesn't make it wrong. What if 1 billion believe Osama is a great man, but another billion believe he should die? Who is right? Who makes that decision? Oh yea, no one gets to make that decision. That's why it's called an opinion, and that's why it can't be called right or wrong. You don't have the right to judge other people opinions as right or wrong just as they don't have the right to judge yours. It may not seem right, but saying I think cheese tastes great and that Osama is a great man are both opinions and you can't tell me I'm wrong because that's what I BELIEVE! (I don't actually believe Osama is great, just making a point) </blockquote><p>Clearly, you need to learn the difference between the concept of having a right to an opinion and having a right opinion.  You have the right to hold whatever opinion you want.  But fortunately, reality is not shaped by anyone's opinion.  Likewise, unfortunately, because people are often willing to reject reality in favor of their opinions, opinions are not necessarily shaped by reality.  Thus, your opinion can be right, or it can be wrong, and just because you have a right to conclude something does not mean that everything you conclude is right.</p><p>Thus, you cannot tell others that they cannot criticizse your opinion.  I have to laugh at the utter irony of that suggestion.   You are honestly going to sit there and tell someone who has the opinion that your opinion is wrong that they are wrong for saying that because you believe that no one can call opinions wrong?  That is more than a little hypocritical, don't you think?</p><p>To elaborate, let us say, building on your examples, that there were a billion people who believe that cheese "is a good man."  Let us also say that there are another billion people who believe that the other billion people are complete loons for believing a congealed dairy product is a good man.  Who is right?  Personally, I would have to say that the latter are correct.  The first billion people are, in fact, loons.  They are wrong, and just because it is their right to hold that opinion does not change that fact.  It is entirely possible to hold a wrong opinion, which means it is entirely possible to call someone else's opinion wrong.</p><p>But that is not your biggest problem.  You biggest problem is that, if no one can call an opinion wrong, then neither can you believe that an opinion, even your own, is right.  You cannot have it both ways.  Either others have the right to say your opinion is wrong, or you have no right to assert that your opinion could be right because the mere suggestion automatically states that any contrary opinion must, therefore, be wrong.</p><p>Everyone has the right to an opinion.  Everyone listening to that opinion has the obligation to consider it on its merits.  But they also have the obligation to accept that opinion, reject that opinion, or set it aside as inconclusive.  So in answer to your question as to "Who decides," the answer is simple.  I do.  You do.  Everyone does.  Everyone decides whether or not an opinion has merit, whether or not it is right or wrong.  And since everyone has a right to express their opinion, everyone can call any opinion right or wrong.  You can express a contrary opinion, but you have no right to tell them that they cannot call your opinion wrong.</p><p>Oh, and by the way, trying to strike a moral eqivalency between believing that a mass murderer who has the expressed goal of inflicting his beliefs on the rest of the world and believing that cheese is good only points out the absudity of believing that no opinion can be wrong.</p><p>In conclusion:</p><p>Cheese is good.</p><p>Osama is evil.</p><p>You are wrong.</p></blockquote>Interesting opinion, But you're wrong.

UlteriorModem
02-26-2007, 03:47 PM
<p>I belive were digressing from the topic at hand into socio engineering.</p><p>But thats bound to happen after 6 pages of an already well throttled dead horse.</p>

sayitaintso
02-26-2007, 08:09 PM
<cite>azekah wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>So SOE makes a profit on the account sale, the spammers make a profit on their forst sale..and the only ones that lose are the end receivers of the spam....the players... so why in the world would SOE want to put an end to making money???? you tell me.. </blockquote> Lol, this doesn't really make sense. They get most of their money from the players. </blockquote>Because all profit is good profit until it isn't....In business you find creative ways of making profit until it's no longer profitable, legal, or in this case bad for business. Most players don't read these boards, let alone post their disatisfaction with the in game spam...Most of those who are annoyed by it will eventually just leave the game without saying a word...Those who are hearty enough to post their disatisfaction on the boards feel that they are trying to do the other players a service by asking SOE to put an end to the end game cheating...SOE has turned a blind eye to it...And now with the population decreasing, SOE has a real problem on it's hands...How do you keep an MMO alive with a dwindling population and keep it profitable....Since subsciption profits drop every time a player leaves, they resort to making profit by alternate means, which angers more people and they leave...it's a vicious cycle...It will end when there are too few players playing to make a profit, or when SOE decides that the money they are making from the cheaters isn't worth ruinging the game over...Maybe they have already figured out the there is no turning back...Maybe they are letting the game die the death of a thousand cuts? We have been complaining about the in game cheating now for over a year and nothing has been done...I think the writing is on the wall...

azekah
02-27-2007, 10:48 AM
[email protected] wrote: <blockquote><cite>azekah wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>So SOE makes a profit on the account sale, the spammers make a profit on their forst sale..and the only ones that lose are the end receivers of the spam....the players... so why in the world would SOE want to put an end to making money???? you tell me.. </blockquote> Lol, this doesn't really make sense. They get most of their money from the players. </blockquote>Because all profit is good profit until it isn't....In business you find creative ways of making profit until it's no longer profitable, legal, or in this case bad for business. Most players don't read these boards, let alone post their disatisfaction with the in game spam...Most of those who are annoyed by it will eventually just leave the game without saying a word...Those who are hearty enough to post their disatisfaction on the boards feel that they are trying to do the other players a service by asking SOE to put an end to the end game cheating...SOE has turned a blind eye to it...And now with the population decreasing, SOE has a real problem on it's hands...How do you keep an MMO alive with a dwindling population and keep it profitable....Since subsciption profits drop every time a player leaves, they resort to making profit by alternate means, which angers more people and they leave...it's a vicious cycle...It will end when there are too few players playing to make a profit, or when SOE decides that the money they are making from the cheaters isn't worth ruinging the game over...Maybe they have already figured out the there is no turning back...Maybe they are letting the game die the death of a thousand cuts? We have been complaining about the in game cheating now for over a year and nothing has been done...I think the writing is on the wall... </blockquote> I'm amazed at how many players have such deep insight and understanding into the SOE business strategy.

Hammer4
02-27-2007, 12:03 PM
<cite>azekah wrote:</cite><blockquote>Interesting opinion, But you're wrong. </blockquote> Funny, but so very wrong.  In the right way.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

TheeHarbinger
05-26-2007, 06:56 AM
<p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: times new roman,times">been tryin to track down info on the subject of plat farmers and how SOE rates them. it's pretty simple finding a great deal of these people and u almost always end up hearin about it from one source or another. anyway, been trying to find info on whether or not a guild dedicated to finding these people in game and in some way lettin them know that it just ain't cool what they're doin, seen some of them go LD right after someone actually goes right up to them and tells them they know what they doin.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: times new roman,times"> anyway if someone knows if such a guild goes against any user agreement thing, think it would probly b sum where deep within the harrassment clause, but it's not very clear on this matter.  alot of people complain and spam about the problem, whats wrong with wanting to unite to do something about it? with all the manpower needed to deal with these people i think it'd be so much easier if the players could do something. </span></p><p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: times new roman,times">btw i do like the idea about making a proven plat mailer open for a FFA. they'd get the point, we'd get to wipe the floor with them. could even make server-wide contest out it... </span></p><p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: times new roman,times">everyone goes to the law side of this expecting SOE to take care of this. they can't do it all. we should lend a hand where we can. if they'll let us, that is.......</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: Times New Roman">dead horse or not it's still annoying.</span></p>

Owilliams
05-26-2007, 10:17 AM
<cite>MrWolfie wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I'll tell you what spam is and is not. </p><p>A single /tell once an hour, or even once per game session ~ I've never been sent a tell more than once in a 24 hour period, is not spam. It may be annoying and against the EULA...etc (in which case you should follow the correct course of action and /report and /petition). However, when you receive a /tell from a plat seller, proceeding to inform the entire server thru public channels and ranting on and on (to people who can do nothing about it and, probably, like me, couldn't care less) is spam.</p><p>Stick to the official routes for reporting nuisances.</p></blockquote><p> Someone sending /tell messages to hundreds of players in rapid succession for the purpose of selling something does indeed fit the description of a SPAMMER.</p><p> Think it through before you post...</p><p>Carry On,</p><p>--Orv</p>

liveja
05-26-2007, 11:29 AM
<cite>Triwyn wrote:</cite><blockquote>BUT, I seriously don't see a single complaint about people who are the reason for the spam..... THE BUYERS!!! </blockquote><p>Then you very seriously have not been paying attention. They get mentioned in almost every freekin' thread.</p><p>/shrug</p>

Meltoz
05-27-2007, 01:04 PM
In the last 2 days I've had about 20 tells from plat sellers....not to my high lvl's, but to my little toon.  I spent 45 mins in CT this afternoon and got 3.  It's very easy to say ignore it, but very hard to do.  I /report every one I get, god knows if anything gets done about them, but I live in hope <img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

kukubird
05-27-2007, 01:17 PM
<cite>sayitaintso wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>azekah wrote:</cite><blockquote>[email protected] wrote: <blockquote>So SOE makes a profit on the account sale, the spammers make a profit on their forst sale..and the only ones that lose are the end receivers of the spam....the players... so why in the world would SOE want to put an end to making money???? you tell me.. </blockquote> Lol, this doesn't really make sense. They get most of their money from the players. </blockquote>Because all profit is good profit until it isn't....In business you find creative ways of making profit until it's no longer profitable, legal, or in this case bad for business. Most players don't read these boards, let alone post their disatisfaction with the in game spam...Most of those who are annoyed by it will eventually just leave the game without saying a word...Those who are hearty enough to post their disatisfaction on the boards feel that they are trying to do the other players a service by asking SOE to put an end to the end game cheating...SOE has turned a blind eye to it...And now with the population decreasing, SOE has a real problem on it's hands...How do you keep an MMO alive with a dwindling population and keep it profitable....Since subsciption profits drop every time a player leaves, they resort to making profit by alternate means, which angers more people and they leave...it's a vicious cycle...It will end when there are too few players playing to make a profit, or when SOE decides that the money they are making from the cheaters isn't worth ruinging the game over...Maybe they have already figured out the there is no turning back...Maybe they are letting the game die the death of a thousand cuts? We have been complaining about the in game cheating now for over a year and nothing has been done...I think the writing is on the wall... </blockquote> I don't think I could have said it any better... and verbatim you nailed it.  Exactly exactly... my thoughts on the subject.... I think they just didn't do enough to keep people here by fixing the exploits faster and banning more EULA breaking plat farmers.  Now they are stuck.... However, I am still amazed they haven't followed other games that know these guys do it for a living.. and will immediately buy a new account ( more revs ) once banned. That being said the person who gets so burnt out over this crud will not go buy another account when their limit of this garbage has been pushed.

mazzy
05-27-2007, 01:43 PM
my husband has played eq since beta of eq1 before live servers were a thought, so approx 10 years give or take, we have both played eq2 since launch and a few weeks ago,  we finaly gave up and cancelled our accounts. we were faithful and dedicated to the everquest worlds, loved the game, loved the stories, loved the content, loved everything about the game expect for the /plat spammers and bot farmers , each day it was worse then day before ( yes some are lucky and dont get hounded) some are not, we were in the catorgory of NOT..i myslef had times where i had more then 15 spams per hour regardless of /rp /anon , to complain got to the point it was assinine..one can spot bot teams/farmers a mile away and when u see them early on and /report /petiton, to speak "type wise to a gm "live" and say, look they are right here"  to only see them from level 20 to now 70 and still  nothing done, its beating a dead horse some of you speak of in these replies. to be in a raid in  eof content and be spammed ( any raid/group/dungeon crawl) is literly a pain in the [Removed for Content] especialy if you dont use /vent /team speak . some are able to over look this as annoying, some dont, the bottom line is the problem is still there, and my guess is the smart [Removed for Content] remarks  who are  overlooking this problem might perhaps fall into the catagory of  ( buying off line plat from these mosquito's) have heard the excuses of , dont have alot of time to play, i am casual i want nice things buying off line allows me to obtain those things with no real effort,  and sadly that takes away ( in my opin) on enjoying the game  and grabbing that item in battles solo/friends or raid. to the person who brought up , some of these people a are living in poverty stricken countries  working this game as a job for peanuts..my reply to that is...we have poverty in our own country and our goverment is so busy helping other countries  that our own country is suffering.. our goverment is  sending jobs  that  millions of people in our country need to  far away lands, becuase they can pay them cheaper to do so..that in itslef is a huge problem as are these plat spammers. my suggestion would be ( most people who buy in game coin off line) no the site addys by now, that soe somehow implemented a better system, or perhaps create a server for the farmers to be on all to them selvels, let them fight each other for nodes fro tradeskilling, named for greed sales etc and make a store locator window available for people who want to buy from that server from those people and kick them the hell off live servers so people can play in piece. i wish you all well in your adventures and  endevors, and hope soe can someday fix this problem..i know stopping telemarketing in real life was a chore but thanks to stopgove. my phone only rings now to friends /family.

Jagged Halo
05-27-2007, 04:25 PM
the lasr 3 days on Splitpaw have been a hoke 2-3 spams a hours

Soll
05-28-2007, 04:08 PM
<p>Like everyone else I get spammed and I too am very annoyed. When I get hit by a spam /tell my brain blocks for several minutes and I  am unable to play. No wait - thats not it - when it happens I see the /tell and carry on with what I was doing. </p><p>Thats it. </p><p>How can this be a big issue?.</p>

Decad
05-28-2007, 04:38 PM
<p>I'm just waiting for the day for one of the usual forum posters on this subject to get busted for buying PP.</p><p>Hell if it can happen it RL with certain politically leaning individuals turning out to be part of a certain group of society that they publicly speak out against, it can happen here...</p><p>EDIT: </p><p>and oh yea, I still never get these SPAM messages. I'm really starting to wonder if part of "their" game is too find the names of the toons from the people who frequently complain on these forums, and blast them with spam. I've been saying that I hardly get SPAM for a long time (6 months to a year?), so I know saying you hardly get SPAM doesn't seem to incur the wrath of the SPAM God.</p>

Samulbrar
05-28-2007, 05:10 PM
We have enough on this topic already. Please don't go digging up old ones.