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View Full Version : Huge-Mantic Raid Suggestion


Grimlux
02-17-2007, 06:55 PM
<p>Its getting so tedious to have to wait on people from their ninja AFK's or listening every pull for group members to check in. Please please SOE put in a Ready/Check command for raid leaders/group leaders. It doesn't seem like it would be to hard to implement into our current interface at all. </p><p>Raid leader or MT puller hits Ready check button. EVERYONE gets a box on their screen that says' "Are you ready? Yes or No" either it comes back to the raid leader as everyones ready or it displays who's not ready. The ninja AFK'rs can be accounted for or even maybe someone's not ready because they're buffing. </p><p>Those of you who have raided in WoW or are familiar with CTRA know that this tool is amazingly simple and highly efficient. I wish EQ2 would implement it. </p>

Kizee
02-17-2007, 08:36 PM
<p>LOL. Wow...just wow. <img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Do you really need to babysit people in your guild that much? Just have them use the /afk tag when they take a afk.</p>

MrWolfie
02-17-2007, 08:54 PM
<cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>LOL. Wow...just wow. <img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Do you really need to babysit people in your guild that much? Just have them use the /afk tag when they take a afk.</p></blockquote><p> Have you ever been on a raid?</p><p>I've never attended one that didn't have multiple people turn up late, jump around hyperactively, demand to know when we're starting, ignore the instructions of the raid leader...the list is endless. Gamers are a terribly self-centered bunch, showing a complete lack of patience, responsibility and generosity of spirit.</p><p>Raids are a nightmare to organise and my hat's off to anyone who takes on the job (esp. the leaders of open raids on Splitpaw!)</p><p>However, I kind of agree.</p><p>There's too much interface for raiders. I don't think there should be any chat channels available inside a raid zone; it should be restricted to /say. I don't think anyone except the raid leader should be able to see a raid window with all the groups in. And if there were a way to disable team-speak, I'd do that too, just to level the playing field. I think raiding should be HARD, and right now, the only hard thing I've seen about it, is getting the raid force all in one place at the same time and on the same page. Anything which forces everyone in the raid to CONCENTRATE, rather than muck around, would be a good thing in my book.</p>

Grimlux
02-17-2007, 09:58 PM
<p>I wasn't suggesting the ethic's of raiding. I was suggesting implementing a tool that would help raid's and leader's manage 24 people. By having a ready check option, the raid leader can pull at the most optimum time when you do not have AFK's or whatever else may come up. Having this tool would also help keep people focused, you know a pull's about to happen when you get the box. "Yes - I am ready"</p><p>I know this does not sound like a big deal to the casual player. No, people going AFK is not a problem but when your tank is about to pull a named it would be nice to know that when your ready check comes back that everyone is present and ready. Hitting that box is like saying "I agree to participate" in a sense. </p><p>By allowing this, you cut down on the group leader asking before every single pull "Everyone here? Everyone ready?" Every single time... When really one person could control this. It would be nice to see it is all im saying. </p>

doctorbow
02-17-2007, 10:10 PM
<cite>MrWolfie wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>LOL. Wow...just wow. <img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Do you really need to babysit people in your guild that much? Just have them use the /afk tag when they take a afk.</p></blockquote><p> Have you ever been on a raid?</p><p>I've never attended one that didn't have multiple people turn up late, jump around hyperactively, demand to know when we're starting, ignore the instructions of the raid leader...the list is endless. Gamers are a terribly self-centered bunch, showing a complete lack of patience, responsibility and generosity of spirit.</p><p>Raids are a nightmare to organise and my hat's off to anyone who takes on the job (esp. the leaders of open raids on Splitpaw!)</p><p>However, I kind of agree.</p><p><i>There's too much interface for raiders. I don't think there should be any chat channels available inside a raid zone; it should be restricted to /say.</i></p><b><span style="color: #cc66cc">So, no talking to /guild? no sending a /t to your friend?  No banter on the level-chat while you're WAITING for all these ninja-afk'ers (Cuz that WILL happen, no matter what)...  Ok, the idea is misguided, and I'm glad I don't play with you if you feel communication isn't important...</span></b> <p><i> I don't think anyone except the raid leader should be able to see a raid window with all the groups in.</i></p><p><b><span style="color: #cc33cc">YEAH that'll make it TERRIFIC for the out-of-group healers to take care of everyone, or the out-of-group bards to pop an occasional rez on a slain comrade.</span></b><i> </i></p><p><i>And if there were a way to disable team-speak, I'd do that too, just to level the playing field.</i></p><p><span style="color: #cc33cc">If there were a way to raise your IQ, I'd do that too.  Just to level the playing field.  Ok, are you aware of how much typing TS/Vent prevents? Not just typing, but helping to organize things quicker? Do YOU even raid?  Holy crap.  Ok, make a guild yourself, that uses nothing but /say on a raid, no teamspeak, no outside communication.  Forbidden.  See how well that actually WORKS, then let us know if you still agree with yourself.  Knuckleheads like you would probably still hold their opinion regardless, just to be contrary.</span><i> </i></p><p><i>I think raiding should be HARD, and right now, the only hard thing I've seen about it, is getting the raid force all in one place at the same time and on the same page. Anything which forces everyone in the raid to CONCENTRATE, rather than muck around, would be a good thing in my book.</i></p><p><i> </i><span style="color: #cc33cc">Raiding SHOULD be hard, but your suggestions are just SLIGHTLY over the edge and abit misguided, IMO.  It doesn't make RAIDING hard, it makes communication hard.  Teamwork and strategy in raid is ALL about communication and what information you have available on the playing field.  ALL the problems people have with getting raids together could be solved by CLEAR communications on the expectations.  IE, be 15 minutes early: When raid leader speaks, PAY ATTENTION:  use /AFK when you're AFK ([Removed for Content] that's what it's THERE for people).  AND, the last clear expectation is, if you do NOT respect your fellow raiders enough to FOLLOW these guidelines, we don't respect YOU enough to invite you next time.  Simple as that.</span><i> </i></p></blockquote> -Drakhammor, 70 swash, everfrost

MrWolfie
02-18-2007, 12:05 PM
<cite>doctorbow wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote><p><i>There's too much interface for raiders. I don't think there should be any chat channels available inside a raid zone; it should be restricted to /say.</i></p><b><span style="color: #cc66cc">So, no talking to /guild? no sending a /t to your friend?  No banter on the level-chat while you're WAITING for all these ninja-afk'ers (Cuz that WILL happen, no matter what)...  Ok, the idea is misguided, and I'm glad I don't play with you if you feel communication isn't important...</span></b> <p><span style="color: #ffffff">Communication from the raid leader is important. Everyone should pay attention. Any other communication is merely gossip, imo. This is a game, not a chat server. If you have time to chat in /guild or send tells to your buddies, then raiding isn't hard enough.</span></p><p><i>I don't think anyone except the raid leader should be able to see a raid window with all the groups in.</i></p><p><b><span style="color: #cc33cc">YEAH that'll make it TERRIFIC for the out-of-group healers to take care of everyone, or the out-of-group bards to pop an occasional rez on a slain comrade.</span></b></p><p><span style="color: #ffffff">That's the whole point! Now people will have to PAY ATTENTION, and when someone screams "AGGRO!" the healer assigned to them will have to be on the ball.</span></p><p><i>And if there were a way to disable team-speak, I'd do that too, just to level the playing field.</i></p><p><span style="color: #cc33cc">If there were a way to raise your IQ, I'd do that too.  Just to level the playing field.  </span></p><span style="color: #ffffff"><p>Heh heh. At least I don't have to resort to name-calling to try and prove a point. </p></span><p><span style="color: #cc33cc">Ok, are you aware of how much typing TS/Vent prevents? </span></p><p><span style="color: #ffffff">You mean freeing you up for the typing you're doing to guildmates and just gossiping in general?!? </span></p><p><span style="color: #cc33cc">Ok, make a guild yourself, that uses nothing but /say on a raid, no teamspeak, no outside communication.  Forbidden.  See how well that actually WORKS, then let us know if you still agree with yourself.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ffffff">Why don't you try it? See if it makes things tougher, see if it makes your raid force MORE competant? I only suggest the removal of TS because if /say were all you got and you didn't circumvent TS there'd be people who whined about other guilds who were "cheating" by using a third-party program. So I'd just get rid of it from the get go.</span></p><p><i>I think raiding should be HARD, and right now, the only hard thing I've seen about it, is getting the raid force all in one place at the same time and on the same page. Anything which forces everyone in the raid to CONCENTRATE, rather than muck around, would be a good thing in my book.</i></p><i><p> <span style="color: #cc33cc">Raiding SHOULD be hard, but your suggestions are just SLIGHTLY over the edge and abit misguided, IMO.  It doesn't make RAIDING hard, it makes communication hard.</span></p></i><p><span style="color: #ffffff">Harder. Not impossible. And it'd make people pay attention. How many raids have you been on where there was at least one person who was a little slow in following the raid leader's commands? Every one for me. Why? Probably because they're chatting or AFK and not told anyone. Anyway, if my suggestins are only SLIGHTLY over the top, you shouldn't have too much trouble accepting them, nor feel the need to call me names <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span></p></blockquote> </blockquote>

Grimlux
02-18-2007, 02:08 PM
<p>No offence, but I didnt start this tread to argue over each other's views. I was merely suggesting a tool to assist in raiding composition. </p>

Kitsune286
02-18-2007, 02:53 PM
My 2cp on the idea. While it could be useful, I'd find something like that alil more annoying than anything.. TS helps alot in saving our Raid Leaders hands from carpel tunnel syndrome (im sure thats spelled wrong, but you get the idea). As for doctorbow and MrWolfie's bashing each other.. take it to tells =p

Gungo
02-18-2007, 04:14 PM
<p>Nice tool, but not really needed experienced raid leaders. Know who is afk or not. There are many things you can use other then a button click which really doesnt show if they arre truly afk or not. </p><p>You can make them jump in place, move over from left to right, Use teamspeak/vent OR have the group leaders just make sure no ones afk. This is just a tool that is needed with poor management and bad raid members who like to ninja afk alot. </p>

Kizee
02-19-2007, 10:38 AM
<cite>Grimlux wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I wasn't suggesting the ethic's of raiding. I was suggesting implementing a tool that would help raid's and leader's manage 24 people. By having a ready check option, the raid leader can pull at the most optimum time when you do not have AFK's or whatever else may come up. Having this tool would also help keep people focused, you know a pull's about to happen when you get the box. "Yes - I am ready"</p><p>I know this does not sound like a big deal to the casual player. No, people going AFK is not a problem but when your tank is about to pull a named it would be nice to know that when your ready check comes back that everyone is present and ready. Hitting that box is like saying "I agree to participate" in a sense. </p><p>By allowing this, you cut down on the group leader asking before every single pull "Everyone here? Everyone ready?" Every single time... When really one person could control this. It would be nice to see it is all im saying. </p></blockquote><p> I still don't get why you would need this feature. Just make it a standing rule that when people AFK they put up thier AKF tag and you will know when people are afk and the tank wont have to ask every time when he pulls. Also, like another person said...use teamspeak and that healps alot also.</p>

Dasein
02-19-2007, 02:02 PM
Something like this would be useful, and while other people might not need it or use it, that doesn't mean other raids wouldn't find it useful. It's like being able to drag and drop raid members between groups. Sure, you can work around it, and if you have a consistent raid force, people will likely already know which group they belong in, but for others, it is a very helpful feature. I am constantly amazed at the resistance some people show to new tools, tools that would be completely voluntary. I could understand people arguing something like this shouldn't take precedence over more needed fixes our how it might be abused or should be refined, but why the outright hostility?

Gungo
02-19-2007, 02:21 PM
<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>Something like this would be useful, and while other people might not need it or use it, that doesn't mean other raids wouldn't find it useful. It's like being able to drag and drop raid members between groups. Sure, you can work around it, and if you have a consistent raid force, people will likely already know which group they belong in, but for others, it is a very helpful feature. I am constantly amazed at the resistance some people show to new tools, tools that would be completely voluntary. I could understand people arguing something like this shouldn't take precedence over more needed fixes our how it might be abused or should be refined, but why the outright hostility? </blockquote> The point is this tool is already in place. All characters has the ability to put an AFK tag up. Heck it auto engages when no one is at the keyboard for a set time. Adding lights sirens and whatnot will not stop a bad player who ninja afks. There is only 4 groups of 6 people in this game if a person afk's w/o telling anyone. No one in thier group knows. they don't hear teamspeak. Then adding an auto light will not help. Your little green light is the AFK tag. do a /who guild and see which of your members has /afk up. Thats your little green light.

Gherig
02-19-2007, 02:50 PM
<p>This is a <span style="color: #cc0000"><b><span style="font-size: x-large">GREAT !!!</span></b> </span>idea.  it should be an added raid feature in LU32 without hesitation.</p><p>To the people who say this is a bad idea and we have an afk tag.  Go lead raids for about 3 months, not fake ones but real, night after night, full raids using your afk tag system then come back to this thread and tell me you still dont like this idea.  As a raid leader for 8+ years now in 3 MMO's, CTRaids Ready check is a fantastic tool that saves us ALOT of wasted time trying to get ppl to respond while they stare blankly at some [Removed for Content] show on comedy Central rather then watching the screen for a raid move call.</p>

MrWolfie
02-19-2007, 07:53 PM
<cite>Gherig wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>This is a <span style="color: #cc0000"><b><span style="font-size: x-large">GREAT !!!</span></b> </span>idea.  it should be an added raid feature in LU32 without hesitation.</p><p>To the people who say this is a bad idea and we have an afk tag.  Go lead raids for about 3 months, not fake ones but real, night after night, full raids using your afk tag system then come back to this thread and tell me you still dont like this idea.  As a raid leader for 8+ years now in 3 MMO's, CTRaids Ready check is a fantastic tool that saves us ALOT of wasted time trying to get ppl to respond while they stare blankly at some [I cannot control my vocabulary] show on comedy Central rather then watching the screen for a raid move call.</p></blockquote> See? I told you that there were lots of people out there just not paying attention whilst on raids [and in groups too, it would seem. I was in a nest group the other day and my monk outDPSed the wizard, on every encounter! <img src="/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ]. Anyway, back on topic, why not allow raid leaders to induce small electric shocks into the player(s) he feels are slacking?

Grimlux
02-19-2007, 08:02 PM
<p>CTRA was a great tool for raiding. Yah you can /who AFK or / enter. to see who's afk in zone. Tons of people leave their AFK flag up forgetting. Its a time sink to babysit. </p><p>Raid leader pushes ready check. After 10-15 seconds the Raid leader gets a tell saying "Everyone Ready" "SLkjcwe is Not Ready" or even sends you the list of names of people who havent checked yes theyre ready. </p><p>Maybe its the guild im in but in a 3 hour raid the group gets asked about 100x if were ready. Group check. etc. Ive personally sat staring into space waiting for the next move, not even looking at chat when were asked if ready. The box popping up on screen gets everyone primed and ready. Once the Raidleader/or MT puller gets the "Everyone Ready" He/She can now pull at the most optimum time w/out worrying if anyone's focusing on Comedy central or AFK.</p>

Lornick
02-19-2007, 10:26 PM
I'm curious why there is so much negative player feedback from what would be a simple and good idea to implement.  Even if your not a raider, why would you be opposed to this?  I'd like to see this added to EQ2.

Voldem
02-19-2007, 10:59 PM
<p>I kinda like the idea. Would save raids from endless wipes when people are not there at the time. And it could also be used if you want or not. You wouldn't be forced to send the message, because on trash [Removed for Content] it would be pointless. But on the real hard names and such, this tool would be a GREAT, GREAT, GREAT idea.</p><p>But thats just my 2 cp</p><p>Voldem, Crushbone Swash</p>

Kizee
02-20-2007, 02:10 PM
<cite>Lornick wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm curious why there is so much negative player feedback from what would be a simple and good idea to implement.  Even if your not a raider, why would you be opposed to this?  I'd like to see this added to EQ2.</blockquote>Because there is alot of more important things that need fixing before putting in something redundant like this.

HairyDustBall
02-20-2007, 03:43 PM
I don't raid much but Im all for tools that help the raid communicate and organize better.