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View Full Version : DEVS - These 2 Things NEED Nerfing in PVP


Reptilianb
02-15-2007, 11:40 PM
<p>Fury in combat Runspeed has to be Nerfed for pvp.. especially if they are going to turn off zoning when in pvp combat.</p><p>Auditor of Silence - Earing - 25% chance to Proc 9.8k Mental Resists... </p><p>come on dont even bother debating the runspeed furies... </p><p>a Troubadour</p>

Greenion
02-15-2007, 11:59 PM
<p><span style="color: #339900">what needs changed imo is the large difference btwn in and out of combat runspeeds.</span></p>

Brigh
02-16-2007, 02:45 AM
unless an army of coercers appear on the horizon, I don't think the mental boost is really all that bad.

CresentBlade
02-16-2007, 04:33 AM
<cite>Reptilianboy wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Fury in combat Runspeed has to be Nerfed for pvp.. especially if they are going to turn off zoning when in pvp combat.</p><p>Auditor of Silence - Earing - 25% chance to Proc 9.8k Mental Resists... </p><p>come on dont even bother debating the runspeed furies... </p><p>a Troubadour</p></blockquote><p> I agree NO ONE should have in combat speed NO ONE, the pact of cheetah and such was fine they were not active 24/7.</p><p>I dont see the earring really being that much of a problem.</p>

SweetheartRose
02-16-2007, 05:38 AM
<p>Furies are the WEAKEST healer by far, take away our in combat runspeed and you basicly make us a non viable pvp class against anything but wizards</p><p>Edit - just wanted to point out that 24-50 furies are perhaps the strongest pvp class and runspeed during those levels I can see being a bit overpowering.</p><p>post 50 and especially at 70 our heals are nowhere near enough to keep up with the damage people do in pvp unless we can lower their damage by getting away from them for a couple seconds.</p><p>At 70 every fury I know pretty much gets beat by brigs/assasins/swashies and I know personally if I see another healing class other than a fury I don't even bother trying to fight them.</p>

Reptilianb
02-16-2007, 06:52 AM
The earing makes fighters immune to troubadours..  and it will hurt chanters too.

Norrsken
02-16-2007, 08:35 AM
<cite>SweetheartRose wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Furies are the WEAKEST healer by far, take away our in combat runspeed and you basicly make us a non viable pvp class against anything but wizards</p><p>Edit - just wanted to point out that 24-50 furies are perhaps the strongest pvp class and runspeed during those levels I can see being a bit overpowering.</p><p>post 50 and especially at 70 our heals are nowhere near enough to keep up with the damage people do in pvp unless we can lower their damage by getting away from them for a couple seconds.</p><p>At 70 every fury I know pretty much gets beat by brigs/assasins/swashies and I know personally if I see another healing class other than a fury I don't even bother trying to fight them.</p></blockquote>ITs prolly 25-50 that mess you up. I agree, after 50, both druids lack most of their momentum and come down to the rest of the classes level. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

The_Real_Ohno
02-16-2007, 10:29 AM
<cite>Norrsken wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>SweetheartRose wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Furies are the WEAKEST healer by far, take away our in combat runspeed and you basicly make us a non viable pvp class against anything but wizards</p><p>Edit - just wanted to point out that 24-50 furies are perhaps the strongest pvp class and runspeed during those levels I can see being a bit overpowering.</p><p>post 50 and especially at 70 our heals are nowhere near enough to keep up with the damage people do in pvp unless we can lower their damage by getting away from them for a couple seconds.</p><p>At 70 every fury I know pretty much gets beat by brigs/assasins/swashies and I know personally if I see another healing class other than a fury I don't even bother trying to fight them.</p></blockquote>ITs prolly 25-50 that mess you up. I agree, after 50, both druids lack most of their momentum and come down to the rest of the classes level. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote> Druids already took a big hit as they cant sit there and heal out of combat while u attack them.  To me that was the only thing that made them so hard to kill.  Throw on a couple snares and u got a dead Fury.  They dont need a nerf at all imo.

Norrsken
02-16-2007, 10:35 AM
<cite>The_Real_Ohnoes wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Norrsken wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>SweetheartRose wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Furies are the WEAKEST healer by far, take away our in combat runspeed and you basicly make us a non viable pvp class against anything but wizards</p><p>Edit - just wanted to point out that 24-50 furies are perhaps the strongest pvp class and runspeed during those levels I can see being a bit overpowering.</p><p>post 50 and especially at 70 our heals are nowhere near enough to keep up with the damage people do in pvp unless we can lower their damage by getting away from them for a couple seconds.</p><p>At 70 every fury I know pretty much gets beat by brigs/assasins/swashies and I know personally if I see another healing class other than a fury I don't even bother trying to fight them.</p></blockquote>ITs prolly 25-50 that mess you up. I agree, after 50, both druids lack most of their momentum and come down to the rest of the classes level. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote> Druids already took a big hit as they cant sit there and heal out of combat while u attack them.  To me that was the only thing that made them so hard to kill.  Throw on a couple snares and u got a dead Fury.  They dont need a nerf at all imo.</blockquote>I kill them just as fine on my toons as I did prior to that change.  Im not asking for them to be nerfed. They just have a lot of things going for them, such as extreme in combat runspeed (fury only), roots, mid to high dps and heals. Not to mention pretty good mit, and fair avoidance. Only thing is, having most stuff usually makes people not learn their class fully, since most of the time they wont need to. Most furies actually go down easier than some other classes simply because they believe their class will do all the work for them. Against skilled players, class becomes less important than actually knowing how to play it. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Now, in the hands of a skilled player, the druids makes for an interresting andversary, one that I like to go up against.

Norrsken
02-16-2007, 10:39 AM
<cite>Reptilianboy wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Fury in combat Runspeed has to be Nerfed for pvp.. especially if they are going to turn off zoning when in pvp combat.</p><p><span style="font-size: large"><b>Auditor of Silence - Earing - 25% chance to Proc 9.8k Mental Resists...</b></span> </p><p>come on dont even bother debating the runspeed furies... </p><p>a Troubadour</p></blockquote>That one is slightly unbalancing yes. I'd even venture as far as to say its completely ridiculus.

Eluzay
02-16-2007, 10:51 AM
<cite>Reptilianboy wrote:</cite><blockquote>The earing makes fighters immune to troubadours..  and it will hurt chanters too.</blockquote>NERF ROOT ... it is immunity to melee NERF stifle .... it is immunity to casters NERF heals .... it gives healers immunity NERF mez .... it is immunity to everyone NERF snare ... it allows people to kite us NERF NERF NERF NERF all the in combat run speed does is a) give fury's the option to run from a fight (but they will be stuck in the zone with no zoning in combat) b) chase someone that runs awaay, if you dont enter into combat you will still be able to zone fyi It is a nice class defining ability in pvp... you would have us all being exactly the same, i like diversity.

Nerfed_bat
02-16-2007, 12:30 PM
<p>Well I don't mind fury run speed in combat... but it need to be reduced some what because it is way rediculous to be able to run away so fast that there is no way in hell anyone could catch up...  </p><p> Note this run speed is more powerful than evac in away ... it allows fury to run someone down if the victim is about to run away... yet it also allow the fury to run away if the fury about to lose the battle and there is nothing anyone can do about (once cheetah has been casted).  So to be able to run away so fast that no one able to catch you is just like evacing out of a battle.</p><p> I was grouped with a fury a few times... and I know what I am talking about interm of getting away... my grp was able to run away so fast that it was rediculous... running at full speed for 60secs with 10sec immunity = no death unless they stiffle us. </p><p> Also it is a 3 min recast is also way too often....</p><p> well that is just my opinions...</p>

CresentBlade
02-16-2007, 12:47 PM
<cite>Eluzay wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Reptilianboy wrote:</cite><blockquote>The earing makes fighters immune to troubadours..  and it will hurt chanters too.</blockquote>NERF ROOT ... it is immunity to melee NERF stifle .... it is immunity to casters NERF heals .... it gives healers immunity NERF mez .... it is immunity to everyone NERF snare ... it allows people to kite us NERF NERF NERF NERF all the in combat run speed does is a) give fury's the option to run from a fight (but they will be stuck in the zone with no zoning in combat) b) chase someone that runs awaay, if you dont enter into combat you will still be able to zone fyi <span style="font-size: medium">It is a nice class defining ability in pvp... you would have us all being exactly the same, i like diversity</span>. </blockquote>Please dont even start with the class defining ability crap. Your a healer NOT a Bard, if you where a Bard then you could say class defining but your a healer....dont even try.

Radigazt
02-16-2007, 12:49 PM
<cite>Reptilianboy wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Fury in combat Runspeed has to be Nerfed for pvp.. especially if they are going to turn off zoning when in pvp combat.</p><p>come on dont even bother debating the runspeed furies... </p><p>a Troubadour</p></blockquote><p> I disagree, with regards to run speeds here is what needs to be changed.  There should be no difference between In-Combat runspeed and Out-Of-Combat runspeed.  Think about it ... if a player X shot player Y in the back ... player Y should be moving slower, not player X.  If that arrow landed in player X's leg ... he should be running a LOT slower, hence the Snare combat arts and spells.  There is absolutely no reason to slow the person attacking and NOT slow the person taking damage.  Sure, I may be moving at 95% of my maximum speed while I'm throwing a dagger into your calf, but you are going to be doing much less than 70% runspeed, so I should be gaining on you, not you leaving me in the dust.  </p><p>Furthermore, there's just no way that a Troubador in Chain armor while continually playing a guitar (maintained concentrated musical buffs!) should be moving faster than a leather wearing warden in wolf form ... you're just not making any sense there.  If you want to cry about needing your Troubie buffed, do so, but nerfing fury and warden runspeeds doesn't make sense.  Furies are Lions and Tigers, Wardens are Wolves ... Troubadors and Dirges are musicians carrying guitars and moving in chain mail.</p><p>At the moment the two biggest things frustrating PvP are <b>1)</b> <b>Zoning Immunity</b> that ends fights and provides God-Mode protection from PvP for people as they exploit it only coming out to gank green cons, and <b>2) Players being too spread out level-wise</b> to find critical mass for frequent pvp'ing.  The second problem could be solved by fixing the mentoring process on PvP servers to make your competitive but not uber when you mentor down, then auto-mentoring everyone down to the same level for a certain zone.  I.E., if Antonica and Commonlands were to mentor down to level 25, they'd become hunting grounds for anyone level 25-70 but without needing to worry about level ranges.  Also, any level 70 would have to be careful going to his raid as he'd be vulnerable in every zone ... that would bring a lot of new intrigue to the game.  Then when those same players zone to Thundering Steppes, they'd be auto-mentored down to level 30.  Still minimal zone aggro, but a chance to PvP in a different tier.  Set all gear to the Mastercrafted versions when mentored down, etc.  and make a mentored player competitive with someone that level ... not uber like it is now and the reason they had to disable mentored PvP in the first place.  </p>

Radigazt
02-16-2007, 12:54 PM
<cite>Gildorath wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Eluzay wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Reptilianboy wrote:</cite><blockquote>The earing makes fighters immune to troubadours..  and it will hurt chanters too.</blockquote>NERF ROOT ... it is immunity to melee NERF stifle .... it is immunity to casters NERF heals .... it gives healers immunity NERF mez .... it is immunity to everyone NERF snare ... it allows people to kite us NERF NERF NERF NERF all the in combat run speed does is a) give fury's the option to run from a fight (but they will be stuck in the zone with no zoning in combat) b) chase someone that runs awaay, if you dont enter into combat you will still be able to zone fyi <span style="font-size: medium">It is a nice class defining ability in pvp... you would have us all being exactly the same, i like diversity</span>. </blockquote>Please dont even start with the class defining ability crap. Your a healer NOT a Bard, if you where a Bard then you could say class defining but your a healer....dont even try. </blockquote> Let's see Gildorath, what's your class defining ability?  Tracking?  Stealthing? ... no, for you it's Zone-hopping and abusing the immunity mechanism to exploit the loophole in code designed to make things fair for people with less capable computers.  I wonder how you'd fare if you were only allowed to zone once every 5 minutes, ROFL!

Reptilianb
02-16-2007, 02:14 PM
<p>Pact of the Cheetah is enough imo for Fury's.</p><p>Having insane standard incombat runspeed makes them unkillable for most classes, and un-escapable. -- i am talking about lower tiers actualy too btw Sweetheartrose... but at high tiers too, anyone but the classes you mention and a couple others wil not be able to kil them either.</p><p>Its ok saying they are easy to kill if you are a ranger <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> but not everyone is.... if the incombat is lowered i woudn't mind givie them more ability/power(not as in mana <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />) at t7 in exchange.</p><p>Mr SK <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> --  I know your joking. Nice constructive discussion. Difficult to kite Death Touch. Diversity is good, but indestructability is a little strong? bit like PT.</p><p>Nerfed_bat -- defo, like the other day, a full group of us fighting one, he's on orange health, runs away, heals up, comes back, repeats. But i think Spirit of the cheatah is ok, at least thats not permenant.</p><p><b>Radigazt</b> - come on, you snare them, but snares wear off, and when you dont have any snares, or when you have one snare, or when they cure themselves or use pots, they will get away, no matter what, unles they is nub.</p><hr /><p><i>Furthermore, there's just no way that a Troubador in Chain armor while continually playing a guitar (maintained concentrated musical buffs!) should be moving faster than a leather wearing warden in wolf form ... you're just not making any sense there.  If you want to cry about needing your Troubie buffed, do so, but nerfing fury and warden runspeeds doesn't make sense.  Furies are Lions and Tigers, Wardens are Wolves ... Troubadors and Dirges are musicians carrying guitars and moving in chain mail.</i></p><p>Firstly.. I'm not talking about problems with my troub and Furys at all.. I was talking about all classes vs furys, i haven't had a problem with incombat fury runspeed with my troub. But.. regarding your comment.. which is wrong.. Bards are King of Travel.. yes I wear Chain (in EQ1 wore plate).. IF EQ2 is following EQ1 Lore (which it is)... a Bard plays his Drums (or lute) for the sole reason to run at mach3, faster than any other class in the game, faster than a wolf, faster than a horse. So yeh.. try thinking about what EQ Classes are about first before you talk dribble?</p><hr /><p>I'm not bothered about Fury's having wizards nukes and heals at the same time (at low tiers) ... i'm just saying you cannot kill these furys even if there is 6 of u, 1 of him, and hes fighting back, because they can just run off at any time.</p><p>The Earing in t7, is a downer to the already seriously nerfed underpowered troub.</p>

munos
02-16-2007, 02:38 PM
<cite>Gildorath wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Reptilianboy wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Fury in combat Runspeed has to be Nerfed for pvp.. especially if they are going to turn off zoning when in pvp combat.</p><p>Auditor of Silence - Earing - 25% chance to Proc 9.8k Mental Resists... </p><p>come on dont even bother debating the runspeed furies... </p><p>a Troubadour</p></blockquote><p> I agree NO ONE should have in combat speed NO ONE, the pact of cheetah and such was fine they were not active 24/7.</p><p>I dont see the earring really being that much of a problem.</p><span style="color: #ff0033">I disagree bards should be the only one with incombat runspeed</span></blockquote>

Norrsken
02-16-2007, 04:30 PM
<cite>munos wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gildorath wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Reptilianboy wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Fury in combat Runspeed has to be Nerfed for pvp.. especially if they are going to turn off zoning when in pvp combat.</p><p>Auditor of Silence - Earing - 25% chance to Proc 9.8k Mental Resists... </p><p>come on dont even bother debating the runspeed furies... </p><p>a Troubadour</p></blockquote><p> I agree NO ONE should have in combat speed NO ONE, the pact of cheetah and such was fine they were not active 24/7.</p><p>I dont see the earring really being that much of a problem.</p><span style="color: #ff0033">I disagree bards should be the only one with incombat runspeed</span></blockquote> </blockquote> I think the crusaders, being like, knights in shining armor, shoudl get incombat runspeed on horsies. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

JadzeaDax
02-16-2007, 07:03 PM
<cite>Reptilianboy wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Fury in combat Runspeed has to be Nerfed for pvp.. especially if they are going to turn off zoning when in pvp combat.</p><p>Auditor of Silence - Earing - 25% chance to Proc 9.8k Mental Resists... </p><p>come on dont even bother debating the runspeed furies... </p><p>a Troubadour</p></blockquote><p> I can see the earring being a huge problem for troubies since it procs so much.  Maybe they need reduce the proc.</p><p>And speaking as a fury myself, I think the in-combat runspeed is absolutley our of control.  Specailly since you can use it soooo often. It DOES need to be nerfed. It IS kinda like EVAC.  Sorta reminds me of SAFEHOUSE in a way.  Remember that?</p>

Norrsken
02-16-2007, 07:25 PM
<cite>JadzeaDax wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Reptilianboy wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Fury in combat Runspeed has to be Nerfed for pvp.. especially if they are going to turn off zoning when in pvp combat.</p><p>Auditor of Silence - Earing - 25% chance to Proc 9.8k Mental Resists... </p><p>come on dont even bother debating the runspeed furies... </p><p>a Troubadour</p></blockquote><p> I can see the earring being a huge problem for troubies since it procs so much.  Maybe they need reduce the proc.</p><p>And speaking as a fury myself, I think the in-combat runspeed is absolutley our of control.  Specailly since you can use it soooo often. It DOES need to be nerfed. It IS kinda like EVAC.  Sorta reminds me of SAFEHOUSE in a way.  Remember that?</p></blockquote>Lets not forget the enchanters.

Deceiv
02-16-2007, 07:46 PM
<cite>JadzeaDax wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Reptilianboy wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Fury in combat Runspeed has to be Nerfed for pvp.. especially if they are going to turn off zoning when in pvp combat.</p><p>Auditor of Silence - Earing - 25% chance to Proc 9.8k Mental Resists... </p><p>come on dont even bother debating the runspeed furies... </p><p>a Troubadour</p></blockquote><p> I can see the earring being a huge problem for troubies since it procs so much.  Maybe they need reduce the proc.</p><p>And speaking as a fury myself, I think the in-combat runspeed is absolutley our of control.  Specailly since you can use it soooo often. It DOES need to be nerfed. It IS kinda like EVAC.  Sorta reminds me of SAFEHOUSE in a way.  Remember that?</p></blockquote>Hmm, calls for a fury nurf saying she is a fury with a bard sig....

Deceiv
02-16-2007, 08:00 PM
<p> Also as a fury that has played on PvP since day one....</p><p>      I got owned 90 percent of the time one on one at lv 70 with any scout , even if all i tryed to do was heal and keep my self alive there dps was always to high to heal through. Now with run speed I have a chance to live for more then 3 secs and I do win maybe 30 percent of fights with scouts 1vs1. But the wins I get now are not just to the run speed its also because we now have a root.</p><p>      Figuers now that a scout class can't always own me in less then 3 secs they would call for a nurf.......</p><p>In all that time that i had NO chance to win aginst a scout I never came here and cryed for any nurf.Its pretty said that ppl cry for a nurf just because MAYBE I might live for more then 3 secs now.</p>

CresentBlade
02-16-2007, 08:09 PM
<cite>Radigazt wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gildorath wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Eluzay wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Reptilianboy wrote:</cite><blockquote>The earing makes fighters immune to troubadours..  and it will hurt chanters too.</blockquote>NERF ROOT ... it is immunity to melee NERF stifle .... it is immunity to casters NERF heals .... it gives healers immunity NERF mez .... it is immunity to everyone NERF snare ... it allows people to kite us NERF NERF NERF NERF all the in combat run speed does is a) give fury's the option to run from a fight (but they will be stuck in the zone with no zoning in combat) b) chase someone that runs awaay, if you dont enter into combat you will still be able to zone fyi <span style="font-size: medium">It is a nice class defining ability in pvp... you would have us all being exactly the same, i like diversity</span>. </blockquote>Please dont even start with the class defining ability crap. Your a healer NOT a Bard, if you where a Bard then you could say class defining but your a healer....dont even try. </blockquote> Let's see Gildorath, what's your class defining ability?  Tracking?  Stealthing? ... no, for you it's Zone-hopping and abusing the immunity mechanism to exploit the loophole in code designed to make things fair for people with less capable computers.  I wonder how you'd fare if you were only allowed to zone once every 5 minutes, ROFL!</blockquote><p>Awww poor baby you just ticked I wouldnt stay and fight the 8 of you all levels 15 16. I didnt engage and zone I just was smart and didnt fight even when there was 11 of you some on each side. Glad I am such a threat, I will just catch you solo again and own you again<img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p><p>As Ron White said. I dont know how many it would take to kick my [Removed for Content] but I knew how many they where gonna use. Everytime I tryed to fight one of you all solo all your buddies showed up<img src="/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. </p>

CresentBlade
02-16-2007, 08:14 PM
<cite>Deceiver wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> Also as a fury that has played on PvP since day one....</p><p>      I got owned 90 percent of the time one on one at lv 70 with any scout , even if all i tryed to do was heal and keep my self alive there dps was always to high to heal through. Now with run speed I have a chance to live for more then 3 secs and I do win maybe 30 percent of fights with scouts 1vs1. But the wins I get now are not just to the run speed its also because we now have a root.</p><p>      Figuers now that a scout class can't always own me in less then 3 secs they would call for a nurf.......</p><p>In all that time that i had NO chance to win aginst a scout I never came here and cryed for any nurf.Its pretty said that ppl cry for a nurf just because MAYBE I might live for more then 3 secs now.</p></blockquote>Druids are top of the food change now, which is fine. But in combat run speed is something NO class should have period and IMHO Bards should be the fastest out of combat run speed in the game.

Deceiv
02-16-2007, 08:21 PM
<cite>Gildorath wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deceiver wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> Also as a fury that has played on PvP since day one....</p><p>      I got owned 90 percent of the time one on one at lv 70 with any scout , even if all i tryed to do was heal and keep my self alive there dps was always to high to heal through. Now with run speed I have a chance to live for more then 3 secs and I do win maybe 30 percent of fights with scouts 1vs1. But the wins I get now are not just to the run speed its also because we now have a root.</p><p>      Figuers now that a scout class can't always own me in less then 3 secs they would call for a nurf.......</p><p>In all that time that i had NO chance to win aginst a scout I never came here and cryed for any nurf.Its pretty said that ppl cry for a nurf just because MAYBE I might live for more then 3 secs now.</p></blockquote>Druids are top of the food change now, which is fine. But in combat run speed is something NO class should have period and IMHO Bards should be the fastest out of combat run speed in the game. </blockquote>Dude you are like a bully hiding in an alley , with your one shot keys and the ability to kill a leather wearing druid in less then 3 secs . Now that poor leather wearing druid might give you some trouble killing him in 3 secs you cry to momma for a nurf. Most of the time the druid did not even see it coming, poor baby i cant kill every druid now ...

CresentBlade
02-16-2007, 08:40 PM
<cite>Deceiver wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gildorath wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deceiver wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> Also as a fury that has played on PvP since day one....</p><p>      I got owned 90 percent of the time one on one at lv 70 with any scout , even if all i tryed to do was heal and keep my self alive there dps was always to high to heal through. Now with run speed I have a chance to live for more then 3 secs and I do win maybe 30 percent of fights with scouts 1vs1. But the wins I get now are not just to the run speed its also because we now have a root.</p><p>      Figuers now that a scout class can't always own me in less then 3 secs they would call for a nurf.......</p><p>In all that time that i had NO chance to win aginst a scout I never came here and cryed for any nurf.Its pretty said that ppl cry for a nurf just because MAYBE I might live for more then 3 secs now.</p></blockquote>Druids are top of the food change now, which is fine. But in combat run speed is something NO class should have period and IMHO Bards should be the fastest out of combat run speed in the game. </blockquote>Dude you are like a bully hiding in an alley , with your one shot keys and the ability to kill a leather wearing druid in less then 3 secs . Now that poor leather wearing druid might give you some trouble killing him in 3 secs you cry to momma for a nurf. Most of the time the druid did not even see it coming, poor baby i cant kill every druid now ... </blockquote>I wish the fights went that way THEY DONT. Other classes have in combat run speed also, hince why I said NO CLASS. Druids have never been a easy target to anything but ill/coer so please enough with the drama. Druids are the top class they are flavor of the month hince why you can see full groups of nothig but druids and tons of solo and duo groups of druids...but I guess everyone likes playing the underdog on PvP servers.../cough

Deceiv
02-16-2007, 08:50 PM
<cite>Gildorath wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deceiver wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gildorath wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deceiver wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> Also as a fury that has played on PvP since day one....</p><p>      I got owned 90 percent of the time one on one at lv 70 with any scout , even if all i tryed to do was heal and keep my self alive there dps was always to high to heal through. Now with run speed I have a chance to live for more then 3 secs and I do win maybe 30 percent of fights with scouts 1vs1. But the wins I get now are not just to the run speed its also because we now have a root.</p><p>      Figuers now that a scout class can't always own me in less then 3 secs they would call for a nurf.......</p><p>In all that time that i had NO chance to win aginst a scout I never came here and cryed for any nurf.Its pretty said that ppl cry for a nurf just because MAYBE I might live for more then 3 secs now.</p></blockquote>Druids are top of the food change now, which is fine. But in combat run speed is something NO class should have period and IMHO Bards should be the fastest out of combat run speed in the game. </blockquote>Dude you are like a bully hiding in an alley , with your one shot keys and the ability to kill a leather wearing druid in less then 3 secs . Now that poor leather wearing druid might give you some trouble killing him in 3 secs you cry to momma for a nurf. Most of the time the druid did not even see it coming, poor baby i cant kill every druid now ... </blockquote>I wish the fights went that way THEY DONT. Other classes have in combat run speed also, hince why I said NO CLASS. Druids have never been a easy target to anything but ill/coer so please enough with the drama. Druids are the top class they are flavor of the month hince why you can see full groups of nothig but druids and tons of solo and duo groups of druids...but I guess everyone likes playing the underdog on PvP servers.../cough </blockquote>    You are right, fights don't always go that way NOW. Now I might have a chance, before without root and run speed I had NONE. Get over that i might win 30 to 40 percent of the time now....

Radigazt
02-17-2007, 12:54 AM
<cite>Gildorath wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Radigazt wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gildorath wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Eluzay wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Reptilianboy wrote:</cite><blockquote>The earing makes fighters immune to troubadours..  and it will hurt chanters too.</blockquote>NERF ROOT ... it is immunity to melee NERF stifle .... it is immunity to casters NERF heals .... it gives healers immunity NERF mez .... it is immunity to everyone NERF snare ... it allows people to kite us NERF NERF NERF NERF all the in combat run speed does is a) give fury's the option to run from a fight (but they will be stuck in the zone with no zoning in combat) b) chase someone that runs awaay, if you dont enter into combat you will still be able to zone fyi <span style="font-size: medium">It is a nice class defining ability in pvp... you would have us all being exactly the same, i like diversity</span>. </blockquote>Please dont even start with the class defining ability crap. Your a healer NOT a Bard, if you where a Bard then you could say class defining but your a healer....dont even try. </blockquote> Let's see Gildorath, what's your class defining ability?  Tracking?  Stealthing? ... no, for you it's Zone-hopping and abusing the immunity mechanism to exploit the loophole in code designed to make things fair for people with less capable computers.  I wonder how you'd fare if you were only allowed to zone once every 5 minutes, ROFL!</blockquote><p>Awww poor baby you just ticked I wouldnt stay and fight the 8 of you all levels 15 16. I didnt engage and zone I just was smart and didnt fight even when there was 11 of you some on each side. Glad I am such a threat, I will just catch you solo again and own you again<img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p><p>As Ron White said. I dont know how many it would take to kick my [I cannot control my vocabulary] but I knew how many they where gonna use. Everytime I tryed to fight one of you all solo all your buddies showed up<img src="/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. </p></blockquote> Heh, I don't think I've ever seen you stay for ANY fight that wasn't a clear massacre, not to mention a fair fight.  Yeah, you don't attack anyone in mastercrafted gear, that's for certain, because you're not looking for PvP, you're looking to shoot fish in a barrel, and if there's more than one small sickly fish, you'll hide behind the zone immunity ... admit it, you exploit the immunity timers. 

Radigazt
02-17-2007, 01:08 AM
<cite>Gildorath wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deceiver wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gildorath wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deceiver wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> Also as a fury that has played on PvP since day one....</p><p>      I got owned 90 percent of the time one on one at lv 70 with any scout , even if all i tryed to do was heal and keep my self alive there dps was always to high to heal through. Now with run speed I have a chance to live for more then 3 secs and I do win maybe 30 percent of fights with scouts 1vs1. But the wins I get now are not just to the run speed its also because we now have a root.</p><p>      Figuers now that a scout class can't always own me in less then 3 secs they would call for a nurf.......</p><p>In all that time that i had NO chance to win aginst a scout I never came here and cryed for any nurf.Its pretty said that ppl cry for a nurf just because MAYBE I might live for more then 3 secs now.</p></blockquote>Druids are top of the food change now, which is fine. But in combat run speed is something NO class should have period and IMHO Bards should be the fastest out of combat run speed in the game. </blockquote>Dude you are like a bully hiding in an alley , with your one shot keys and the ability to kill a leather wearing druid in less then 3 secs . Now that poor leather wearing druid might give you some trouble killing him in 3 secs you cry to momma for a nurf. Most of the time the druid did not even see it coming, poor baby i cant kill every druid now ... </blockquote>I wish the fights went that way THEY DONT. Other classes have in combat run speed also, hince why I said NO CLASS. Druids have never been a easy target to anything but ill/coer so please enough with the drama. Druids are the top class they are flavor of the month hince why you can see full groups of nothig but druids and tons of solo and duo groups of druids...but I guess everyone likes playing the underdog on PvP servers.../cough </blockquote><p> I dunno, I think Swashy's are FOTM (Flavor Of The Month) nowadays.  It used to be Conjurors/Necros, then they got nerfed about 3 times, then Bruisers/Monks, and they got nerfed, tho Bruisers got nerfed a lot more than Monks to be honest, then Rangers who got a mini-nerf coupled with a buff ... wierd but overall a mini-nerf, then Brigands who have had several nerfs then got an overpowerd AA (Safehouse) and now that's nerfed too.  I'd say that through most of that Wardens and Furies have been pretty decent, but when Echoes of Faydwer hit everyone rolled a Fae, and they're totally matched with Furies (including the 5% runspeed racial trait), so that's why Furies have been so FOTM.  Plus, lots of girls like Fae's and honestly lots of girls are interested in playing healers, particularly the nature-attuned druid classes, so I'll buy that they were FOTM for a bit.  But now, I'd say that Swashy's are FOTM.  They've survived all of the nerf-fests un-nerfed, with their DPS and Haste still in tact, off-tankability, de-tauntability, and even if/when the 40% nerf comes in (which will nerf Furies but not Wardens BTW) Swashy's will once again slip under the radar.  So, I've seen a ton of Swashy's these days ... </p><p>A Fury gets the bulk of his DPS from 2 spells, Strike of Thunder and Starburst (in T6/T7 he gets 2 more but they're sort of odd, one's an un-movable pet and the other stuns him). If mastered, both can exceed 40% of some people's health.  The other two main Fury attacks do minimal damage, so it's those two longish recast spells that give the Fury his DPS.  By contrast, Wardens get much better damage on their other two spells, but their big hitters are faster-recasting thus lower damage but similar DPS that will be unaffected by the 40% rule if/when it is implemented.  Wizards will be hard hit, but Warlocks will not.  Shadowknights Harm Touch will be majorly nerfed as will Assassin's big hits, but Assassins are just fine.  The biggest winners will be Swashbucklers, Rangers and Wardens ... just FYI.  </p>

EQ2Playa432
02-17-2007, 01:17 AM
Radigazt wrote: A Fury gets the bulk of his DPS from 2 spells, Strike of Thunder and Starburst (in T6/T7 he gets 2 more but they're sort of odd, one's an un-movable pet and the other stuns him). If mastered, both can exceed 40% of some people's health.  The other two main Fury attacks do minimal damage, so it's those two longish recast spells that give the Fury his DPS.  By contrast, Wardens get much better damage on their other two spells, but their big hitters are faster-recasting thus lower damage but similar DPS that will be unaffected by the 40% rule if/when it is implemented.  Wizards will be hard hit, but Warlocks will not.  Shadowknights Harm Touch will be majorly nerfed as will Assassin's big hits, but Assassins are just fine.  The biggest winners will be Swashbucklers, Rangers and Wardens ... just FYI -------- Radi I hope you aren't a fury, because you don't seem to know what you are talking about. The "other two main fury attacks that do minimal damage" are not that at all. In scout fights, which many Furies here seem to have trouble with, shouldn't be a problem besides swash, assassin, or brigand. Those 2 dots are crucial in a scout fight to keep them out of sneak. And also, I'm not sure if you know this, but dots do more damage in pvp then pve. Just hit the check box.

Memmoch
02-17-2007, 03:51 AM
IMHO there should be no incombat runspeed, nomatter the class.  If that twink can afford the 40% runspeed mount more power to him, if the fury wants his/her incombat runspeed great.  Removing runspeeds incombat has caused much more trouble than it's worth.  Bring on the runspeeds, incombat or out of combat!!! As far as the fury vs. bard discussion.  Sony has seriously screwed the bard community out there and I feel bad for them <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  there should never be a time where a unsnared fury should outrun a unsnared bard.  Fact.

Spider
02-17-2007, 05:12 PM
<cite>Deceiver wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> Also as a fury that has played on PvP since day one....</p><p>      I got owned 90 percent of the time one on one at lv 70 with any scout , even if all i tryed to do was heal and keep my self alive there dps was always to high to heal through. Now with run speed I have a chance to live for more then 3 secs and I do win maybe 30 percent of fights with scouts 1vs1. But the wins I get now are not just to the run speed its also because we now have a root.</p><p>      Figuers now that a scout class can't always own me in less then 3 secs they would call for a nurf.......</p><p>In all that time that i had NO chance to win aginst a scout I never came here and cryed for any nurf.Its pretty said that ppl cry for a nurf just because MAYBE I might live for more then 3 secs now.</p></blockquote><p> first off let me state for the record Troubs are NOT scouts  not by a long shot </p><p>were casters with some Scout skills and thats it </p><p>and if u realy wanna talk about scaling issues at 70 a troub is the LAST personu wanna try and complain to because as far as scaling goes ours is the worst </p><p>now as for the [Removed for Content] earing [Removed for Content] is up with ANYHTING procing over 9k in resists thats jsut simply We Todd Edd </p><p>especialy considering that troubs and enchanters almost exlusivly  do mental damage </p><p>thats like saying oh high heres and earing that makes u immune to troubs and enchanters have a nice day </p><p>i mean how would wizzies like it if rather than mental resists it proced that in heat and cold </p><p>or diesease and poison for some of the other classes ?  or divine to illiminate pali's templars and inquis ? </p><p>cmon 9k resist is FINE in pve for some raid but make the proc pvp convert to something reasonable like 1-2k MAX </p>

JadzeaDax
02-18-2007, 12:20 AM
<cite>Deceiver wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>JadzeaDax wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Reptilianboy wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Fury in combat Runspeed has to be Nerfed for pvp.. especially if they are going to turn off zoning when in pvp combat.</p><p>Auditor of Silence - Earing - 25% chance to Proc 9.8k Mental Resists... </p><p>come on dont even bother debating the runspeed furies... </p><p>a Troubadour</p></blockquote><p> I can see the earring being a huge problem for troubies since it procs so much.  Maybe they need reduce the proc.</p><p>And speaking as a fury myself, I think the in-combat runspeed is absolutley our of control.  Specailly since you can use it soooo often. It DOES need to be nerfed. It IS kinda like EVAC.  Sorta reminds me of SAFEHOUSE in a way.  Remember that?</p></blockquote>Hmm, calls for a fury nurf saying she is a fury with a bard sig.... </blockquote><p>Heh was that supposed to be a flame?  Well it didn't work....</p><p>Oh and you missed the mystic in my sig too.... I stopped playing my bard in t6 when I figured out she was gimped... So I rolled a fury. I'm MUCH happier now. I don't suppose people are supposed to have alts eh? </p>

creative86
02-22-2007, 01:29 AM
<p>Fury's needing nerfed run speed? Come on, let's talk about the scout class. They have ungodly dps, they have stealth, have a very fast run speed if they train in it in their aa's, they wear chain armor, and with the ranger class they can charm an animal for a pet to command. Heck, scouts make a better tank then the tank class.</p><p>I don't know why everyone is worried about a fury. My fury can never take on a group and he can barely solo toons two to three lvls below him. I find myself healing trying to stay alive from the dps let alone blasting any damage spells. I couldn't care less if they did nerf the run speed because I could count all the times I have used it on one hand. If I engage a fight I stay and either kill or be killed which is what usally happens.</p><p>And what about Sk's I got harm touched for 4140 hp's the other night. What gives? I only have 4207 fully buffed. Now to me that does not make for a fun game. He could have taken everything off and punched me to death after hitting me with HT.</p><p>To me there is more issues that need addressed then the fury's run speed. I have seen a solo assain lvl 70 take out a full group of lvl 70's. Now that's not right, it's no wonder 70% of the toons are scout class toons.</p><p>Maybe I don't know how to run a fury yet, even though I have been playing him since the start of pvp, but I talk to other fury's and they have the same problems as me.</p><p>Just my two cense worth.</p>

JohnDoe0
02-22-2007, 01:43 AM
I hope this "Deciever" guy is attempting to decieve us, because Druids are like the anti-scout. Maybe you try sucking less?

Odama
02-22-2007, 03:08 AM
<p>Less Nerfing more Fixing and upgrading</p><p> Since the launch of PvP servers in this game in typical SOE fashion, classes are nerfed for balance rather than attention being placed on the ones that can barely compete. All I'm asking for is some love being thrown to the ignored class sets (you know who you are) who generally get rolled outside of a group or raid, mostly by one of the overpowered alpha-classes.  Give me one patch with that type of movement and prove me wrong please.</p><p><i><span style="font-size: xx-small">I'm an ex SwG Pre-CU Jedi, I know the SOE nerf bat well.</span></i></p>

songsta
02-22-2007, 11:15 AM
ok NO on the fury thing. Its not given to them straight off you have to get enough AA's for it. If your talking about enhancing Peerless Predator. As for the auditor i know nothing about so... NO NERF ON FURIES. Dont like it, roll a fury!

Eluzay
02-22-2007, 11:23 AM
<cite>Gildorath wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Eluzay wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Reptilianboy wrote:</cite><blockquote>The earing makes fighters immune to troubadours..  and it will hurt chanters too.</blockquote>NERF ROOT ... it is immunity to melee NERF stifle .... it is immunity to casters NERF heals .... it gives healers immunity NERF mez .... it is immunity to everyone NERF snare ... it allows people to kite us NERF NERF NERF NERF all the in combat run speed does is a) give fury's the option to run from a fight (but they will be stuck in the zone with no zoning in combat) b) chase someone that runs awaay, if you dont enter into combat you will still be able to zone fyi <span style="font-size: medium">It is a nice class defining ability in pvp... you would have us all being exactly the same, i like diversity</span>. </blockquote>Please dont even start with the class defining ability crap. Your a healer NOT a Bard, if you where a Bard then you could say class defining but your a healer....dont even try. </blockquote>you are level 15, you dont even have class defining abilities yet lo!!!... I got lifetap at 55, a very class defining ability.  When you grow up we will talk more... fyi I am an SK not a bard or a healer. I am defending ANOTHER class and so quit whining... level up then we will talk.

songsta
02-22-2007, 11:40 AM
Gildorath=NOOB tbh...

CresentBlade
02-22-2007, 01:23 PM
<cite>songsta wrote:</cite><blockquote>Gildorath=NOOB tbh... </blockquote>Ouch, so if your getting owned by a NOOB what does that make you?

JadzeaDax
02-22-2007, 02:48 PM
<cite>creative86 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Come on, let's talk about the scout class. They have ungodly dps, </p></blockquote>Just to let you know not all scout classes are created equal.  For instance you can't compare a dige or troubie to the dps of a swash or ranger, because we just don't have it. Not even close.

songsta
02-22-2007, 03:21 PM
getting owned by a noob eh? thats why i got destroyer off you =] try again nooblet

Strums
02-22-2007, 03:59 PM
<p>Okay...first off, lets get off this "whos the noob" & "who owned who" crap...go hijack a diffrent thread.</p><p>Second, for all of you hyping up the bard, my hats off to you.  Troubs and Dirge are way out matched vs any class in T7.  Even with relic / pvp gear / legendary / full masters, I can hardly take down a caster after the changes were made to the resist...and as for taking any other class 1v1...Bards simply dont stand a chance.</p><p>To make up for the bards lack of dps in pvp, I agree that bards SHOULD have the fastest in combat run speed.  The furys however I dont feel need to be nerfed...their in combat run speed is great for catching runners.  True druids are at the top of the food chain so to speak in pvp, if they are played right...but I fear alot of the people crying about this are people who are going up against players who know how to play thier class right.  Every class has some type of advantage, heck for a bard my advantage is being able to only solo green con players...o wait...thats not an advantage <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ...</p><p>How much more nerfing do we need guys?  Their will always be someone who is good a playing a particular class, and they can dominate the compitition just by using what they have to their advantage.  I know I cant pvp solo with my bard, but im not on the forums screaming for a nerf for all the other classes.</p>

Titan-X
02-22-2007, 04:30 PM
<cite>Reptilianboy wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Fury in combat Runspeed has to be Nerfed for pvp.. especially if they are going to turn off zoning when in pvp combat.</p><p>Auditor of Silence - Earing - 25% chance to Proc 9.8k Mental Resists... </p><p>come on dont even bother debating the runspeed furies... </p><p>a Troubadour</p></blockquote> <p>Once again there is a call to nerf a class or an item. Time and time again we here people come to the forums after being beat up by a certain class and call for a immediate disabling of a certain ability a class has to make the "more  PvP combat friendly". Ok so not to derail this topic, but if you want to nerf fury's then lets nerf bards crazy out of combat run speed. Lets take away their stuns, snares, and all there debuffs and buffs. OMG they have mana regen that isn't something that all classes have so it's a advantage that needs to be nerfed so that they are more PvP friendly. Wizards can nuke for 100% of my health lets take their nukes away in PvP. Getting the point? Lets continue, scouts have stealth and mages have invisibility, which is an unfair advantage to someone who doesn't already have that ability. Shall I continue? The point is, there are many aspects of many classes that if I spent the time to wage a valid argument, I would convince you that they should be nerfed for one reason or another. So here you go, you have a hard time with a fury? Until you figure out how to kill one don't go into combat. Your bard running speed is much faster and I would be willing to bet they aren't going to waste there Spirit of the cheetah so that they can chase you down most of the time. </p><p>Just a FYI, we have beat up the call for nerfing a hundred times. Please stop coming to the boards and crying because you got your "a.." handed to you by a certain class. I say this only because I am sure that you own certain classes and they feel the same way. Everyday I check the forums someone new is here crying about a class. Guess what the game is what it is, learn to play. </p>

DynamicPerforman
02-22-2007, 11:16 PM
<ul><li>The earring needs to be fixed for PVP.  I dueled my Troub friend in the arena recently. And I could just stand there and /laugh as she tried to hurt me. (monk in defensive with earring procing all the time)</li><li>The fury runspeed needs to be fixed. 45% IN COMBAT RUN SPEED.   A fury I was fighting ran circles around me while he slowly dotted me down to dead. When I revived I attempted to sprint to the zone line... yeah, i didn't make it. I had to end up calling home because no one was near enough to help. I later talked to a ranger who called that same fury a noob, and that she killed him all the time.  She even sent me some screen shots.  Rock paper scissors my [Removed for Content].</li></ul>

Zanid
02-23-2007, 12:13 AM
<p>The irony of this thread is that it has the two most overpowered class-types arguing over which should be nerfed! There is a reason the world of Norrath is overpopulated with DPS scouts (Swash/Ranger/Assassin/Brig) and druids and it's not their cool clothes!</p><p>In-combat run speed is a really cool idea and it should stay. However, it should not go to a class that can root, snare and nuke for good damage. That's just annoying and clearly unfair. Only one reply commented on the underpowered classes. Give the incombat run-speed to a melee class. I like the idea of it going to paladins - they're knights afterall. Although this would make them hard to kill thanks to their high MIT, that's balanced by the fact that they struggle killing others (even if they could run you down....their DPS is just too low). Give Berserkers the sprint ability of rangers/monks. SKs already have a snare, so they're already tough to get away from. Make a Guardian's taunt pull you back into the fight.</p><p>I don't have anyone at T7, but if Furies get owned at that level, then they definitely need to be boosted along with the bards. However, below T7 they are overpowered and need a nerf. And yes, I realize that bards are a group class..but wouldn't it be fun if EVERY class was good for solo and group since EVERY class will have to solo and group throughout their careers?</p><p>The earring is nonsense. I don't mind that some classes have abilities that make them uber versus another class (i.e. Illus' stifle vs a druid, or warden's dmg shield vs bruisers), but to make an item that anyone can get that makes 2 classes completely useless is a little out of control.</p><p>Those are my 2 cents.</p>

Radigazt
02-23-2007, 02:57 AM
<cite>EQ2Playa432 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Radigazt wrote: A Fury gets the bulk of his DPS from 2 spells, Strike of Thunder and Starburst (in T6/T7 he gets 2 more but they're sort of odd, one's an un-movable pet and the other stuns him). If mastered, both can exceed 40% of some people's health.  The other two main Fury attacks do minimal damage, so it's those two longish recast spells that give the Fury his DPS.  By contrast, Wardens get much better damage on their other two spells, but their big hitters are faster-recasting thus lower damage but similar DPS that will be unaffected by the 40% rule if/when it is implemented.  Wizards will be hard hit, but Warlocks will not.  Shadowknights Harm Touch will be majorly nerfed as will Assassin's big hits, but Assassins are just fine.  The biggest winners will be Swashbucklers, Rangers and Wardens ... just FYI -------- Radi I hope you aren't a fury, because you don't seem to know what you are talking about. The "other two main fury attacks that do minimal damage" are not that at all. In scout fights, which many Furies here seem to have trouble with, shouldn't be a problem besides swash, assassin, or brigand. Those 2 dots are crucial in a scout fight to keep them out of sneak. And also, I'm not sure if you know this, but dots do more damage in pvp then pve. Just hit the check box. </blockquote><p> I do have a Fury (more than 1 actually) and the damage from the two DoT lines (Stinging Insects and Squall lines) isn't very good.  Compare a Warden and Fury for DPS before level 23, and you're notice that the Warden far out-DPS's a Fury because his two other attacks do much more damage than the Fury's two.  The Stinging Insects line isn't a powerful line.  Neither really is the Squall line, though it's better damage-wise.  Without the Strike of Thunder and Starburst lines, Furies would be lowest tier DPS, sorry, but that's a fact.  It's the Strike of Thunder and Starburst lines that give Furies the ability to be the DPS of the healers.  Really, both Druid classes have the lowest armor of the healers, leather, and should have the highest DPS of the healers.  You'll notice that at most levels the Warden is the best single-target DPS'er and the Fury is the best AoE DPS'er.  That's by design.  But, Furies rely very heavily on those two spell lines--Strike of Thunder and Starburst--for their DPS.  Without them, Furies would be close to the bottom in DPS.  </p><p>One thing you may not have noticed is that some of the power the Druid classes get to their DPS'ing comes from their AA lines.  If you have a lot of AA points, you can get good damage on the chain wearing Shamans and plate wearing Clerics too ... probably a lot more DPS than you might think.  </p><p>As for your condescending comment ... let me know when you'd like to 1v1, I'm actually a pretty good player.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  If you want me to use a Fury, that can be arranged.  I currently have toons at levels 13, 19, 27, 34 and 55, although several of them are close to leveling.  Let me know when you want to 1v1 me.  </p>