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View Full Version : Group Shiny lotto option


HairyDustBall
02-15-2007, 04:57 PM
This has been brought up before but now with EOF I think it is even more needed.  The problem is I go with groups to certain zone purely for the shineys... atempting to fill in those rares and get my glasses....  However I find this to be problamatic as there are 3 types of people in the group the The shiny agressive, the shiny casual, the dont care.... The problem with this is as an aggressive shiny getter I run after and get most shinys before any of the casuals can,  but I already have all the shinys from that zone that arnt rare so I go thru the proces of does anyone want this and link it hten have people roll for it etc....  this take up alot of time in the group and can [Removed for Content] of the don't cares.  It becomes more of a mess if there is more than 1 agressive in the group which tends to start to get the group killed/nearly killed for a shiny.  Personally I would like to see a lotto system for shinys especially in light that some are worth 5-10 plat and you pretty much need a group to farm them well.

KBern
02-15-2007, 05:05 PM
<p>There is no need for a shiny loot option.</p><p>Just do a shiny rotation.  If you have an idiot who won't follow it, kick them.</p>

Jai1
02-15-2007, 05:08 PM
I kinda like the idea although I don't group for shinies.  Let's take it further and put a NBG shiney lotto option...

Ranja
02-15-2007, 05:12 PM
I was in a group with a healer that was shiney aggressive. Stupid idiot got us killed twice while he was harvesting shinies while we were fighting. It would be nice if the group you are in is fighting then no one can harvest - just like solo.

sayitaintso
02-15-2007, 05:34 PM
<cite>Ranja wrote:</cite><blockquote>I was in a group with a healer that was shiney aggressive. Stupid idiot got us killed twice while he was harvesting shinies while we were fighting. It would be nice if the group you are in is fighting then no one can harvest - just like solo. </blockquote>He got you killed once while harvesting a shiny and yet you did not kick him out of your group for doing that? healer or not that's grounds for insta kick in my groups...

Maryk
02-15-2007, 05:35 PM
<cite>HairyDustBall wrote:</cite><blockquote>This has been brought up before but now with EOF I think it is even more needed.  The problem is I go with groups to certain zone purely for the shineys... atempting to fill in those rares and get my glasses....  However I find this to be problamatic as there are 3 types of people in the group the The shiny agressive, the shiny casual, the dont care.... The problem with this is as an aggressive shiny getter I run after and get most shinys before any of the casuals can,  but I already have all the shinys from that zone that arnt rare so I go thru the proces of does anyone want this and link it hten have people roll for it etc....  this take up alot of time in the group and can [Removed for Content] of the don't cares.  It becomes more of a mess if there is more than 1 agressive in the group which tends to start to get the group killed/nearly killed for a shiny.  Personally I would like to see a lotto system for shinys especially in light that some are worth 5-10 plat and you pretty much need a group to farm them well. </blockquote><p> Entirely agree with Hairy.  As the main healer I'm in the back of the group and...never...ever...get a shot at the shinies...question doesn't even come up...tank just gets them all.</p><p>I love getting shinies...particularly when one of those rare ones pop.  But in some of the serious places...where I really need them...I have no chance.  I was in Kaladim alone yesterday...invis...there were shinies all over the place...but couldn't unvis to harvest.  I'd come up on two that were side-by-side...that was torture.     </p><p>Whether its lotto or something else...the guys/healers who have to stay in the back of the group need a shot at the shinies without putting the group at risk.</p>

DngrMou
02-15-2007, 05:54 PM
<p>Once again, up front communication can save people grief over issues like this.  </p><p>Decide in advance how shinys are to be handled..../ran....rotation, FFA, or whatever, and all problems are solved before they get to be problems.</p>

Nocifer Deathblade
02-15-2007, 06:11 PM
<cite>HairyDustBall wrote:</cite><blockquote>This has been brought up before but now with EOF I think it is even more needed.  The problem is I go with groups to certain zone purely for the shineys... atempting to fill in those rares and get my glasses....  However I find this to be problamatic as there are 3 types of people in the group the The shiny agressive, the shiny casual, the dont care.... The problem with this is as an aggressive shiny getter I run after and get most shinys before any of the casuals can,  but I already have all the shinys from that zone that arnt rare so I go thru the proces of does anyone want this and link it hten have people roll for it etc....  this take up alot of time in the group and can [Removed for Content] of the don't cares.  It becomes more of a mess if there is more than 1 agressive in the group which tends to start to get the group killed/nearly killed for a shiny.  Personally I would like to see a lotto system for shinys especially in light that some are worth 5-10 plat and you pretty much need a group to farm them well. </blockquote> I completely support this idea.. It will also keep those aggressive players at bay knowing that they have no reason to rush to it FIRST cuz it'll be lotto'ed.  I'm in many pick up groups and my biggest gripe is aggressive shiny players to go after shinies themselves. That lotto shiny system in place will help alot just like lotto chest items.. I don't see why not..

Mareth
02-15-2007, 06:21 PM
I really like this idea, there's always someone getting just a bit too close to aggro, or have to do it in the middle of the fight, just for a shiny. Risk vs. reward sure, but not when your risking the rest of the group for your own reward? Shiny lotto, suggestion of the week! <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

ChildofHate
02-15-2007, 06:31 PM
<cite>KBern wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000">There is no need for a shiny loot option.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000">Just do a shiny rotation.  If you have an idiot who won't follow it, kick them.</span></p></blockquote> +1  No need to try to program any more complication into the game.  Set up a group rule about how to handle shiny's... same way you would loot.  Someone breaks that rule, you boot them.  plain.  simple.  easy.  period.

Jeger_Wulf
02-15-2007, 06:39 PM
Shiny lotto FTW!

Riot-Girl
02-15-2007, 08:13 PM
<cite>KBern wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>There is no need for a shiny loot option.</p><p>Just do a shiny rotation.  If you have an idiot who won't follow it, kick them.</p></blockquote>Absolutely agreed. I share the same sentiment with KBern and ChildofHate. It's about communication and interaction through setting ground rules right from the get-go. Anyone who disagrees is free to leave before anyone's time is wasted. If a group has a rotation policy, I always prefer alpha-loot i.e. loot in alphabetical order. Again, whatever the loot rules, agree them, stick to them, warn followed by /kick anyone who doesn't abide. If some idiot cannot even abide by simple rules for shinies, then I'd hate to be in such a group when the real 'phat' loot drops. Agreed with the poster who stated if someone in the group dies because someone else wasn't doing their job due to harvesting, insta-kick. Nice original post, HairyDustBall. It never even occured to me that looting shinies in groups would cause an issue. Shows you how long I've been out of the MMORPG scene. Regards, Riotgirl

liveja
02-15-2007, 10:38 PM
<cite>KBern wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>There is no need for a shiny loot option.</p><p>Just do a shiny rotation.  If you have an idiot who won't follow it, kick them.</p></blockquote> Add my vote to this option.

DarrkElf
02-15-2007, 11:00 PM
<p>When in a group with fellow guild members we always use the shinies rotation.  Fair for everyone.  You get an equal chance at getting a rare one, and if it's not rare and you already have it then you can offer it to your other group members.  This is particularly handy in Castle Mistmoore.</p><p>Just a bit of advice, make the rotation alphabetical by character name (or reverse alphabetical if you prefer).  If not you're gonna have trouble keeping track of who's turn is next with a full group.</p>

TuinalOfTheNexus
02-16-2007, 01:05 AM
<p>I'd like to see a lotto implemented tbh. Probably because I like to pull fast, and don't really want to have people keeping track of a loot order, rolling dice, or whatever.</p><p>For the people saying it's unnecessary, well so is the automated loot lotto, but that's a huge time-saver and convienience that also eliminates the chance of unscrupulous players cheating the group. Doing the same for shinies would be common sense.</p>

Sebastien
02-16-2007, 03:31 AM
As for the suggestion to implement lotto on shinies, I say: <u><b>HELL YES</b></u>.

Silverpaws
02-16-2007, 06:39 AM
You guys have to be kidding, right?  Its a stupid question mark.  Say something to your groupmate if they are snagging them all.  /g works really well to chat with other players.  I suggest people use that instead of asking the game to make all the decisions for them.  And if someone is still being stupid, boot them.  /boggle

steelbadger
02-16-2007, 07:08 AM
Pah, you're all just jealous of the people who get the shinies <img src="/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Our guild groups can be a barrel of fun with everyone ignoring the mobs to get the shiny.  This option could destroy the fun that is the shiny rush. (btw, if 2 people harvest a shiny at exactly the same moment it seems that both can harvest it, we had it happen once.  One person got a purple mushroom an the other got the rare black mushroom <img src="/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )

mdell
02-16-2007, 07:38 AM
<cite>steelbadger wrote:</cite><blockquote>Pah, you're all just jealous of the people who get the shinies <img src="/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Our guild groups can be a barrel of fun with everyone ignoring the mobs to get the shiny.  This option could destroy the fun that is the shiny rush. (btw, if 2 people harvest a shiny at exactly the same moment it seems that both can harvest it, we had it happen once.  One person got a purple mushroom an the other got the rare black mushroom <img src="/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ) </blockquote><p> Well my guild is a bit more friendly than yours i guess, and my guild leader has a way of harvesting the shiny</p><p>and posting what it is and then we roll on it.  He has been out of town for a while so i havent asked him how</p><p>he does this but a lotto option would speed this process up quite a bit.  I'm no proggrammer (or speller) but</p><p>with the lotto code already in for chests, i think this could be done fairly easily and i think that it should be put</p><p>into the game.</p>

steelbadger
02-16-2007, 07:58 AM
<cite>mdell wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>steelbadger wrote:</cite><blockquote>Pah, you're all just jealous of the people who get the shinies <img src="/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Our guild groups can be a barrel of fun with everyone ignoring the mobs to get the shiny.  This option could destroy the fun that is the shiny rush. (btw, if 2 people harvest a shiny at exactly the same moment it seems that both can harvest it, we had it happen once.  One person got a purple mushroom an the other got the rare black mushroom <img src="/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ) </blockquote><p> Well my guild is a bit more friendly than yours i guess, and my guild leader has a way of harvesting the shiny</p><p>and posting what it is and then we roll on it.  He has been out of town for a while so i havent asked him how</p><p>he does this but a lotto option would speed this process up quite a bit.  I'm no proggrammer (or speller) but</p><p>with the lotto code already in for chests, i think this could be done fairly easily and i think that it should be put</p><p>into the game.</p></blockquote>Urm...  more friendly?  Because we like to have a laugh about the stupid situations shiny harvesting can get you into? I've had our MT aggro 2 groups in CMM to get a shiny, that was pretty funny. Numerous times I have pulled mobs onto the tank to allow me to get teh phat shiny. Every time there is a shout of "shiny, left room" on teamspeak the entire group immediately changes course for the shiny. And it's all just a laugh, we don't take it as seriously as you seem to, its a shiny, who cares?  Besides, if anyone NEEDS a shiny for a collection like the recognition then they get given it anyway.  Its the thrill of the hunt that we enjoy, not the kill. I just see a shiny lotto making it all a bit serious, who cares?  It's just a shiny, it doesn't make your character any stronger, longer lived (possibly shorter lived however <img src="/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ) It is not important enough to your progression to warrent the seriousness that lottoing would mean.

Levatino
02-16-2007, 08:22 AM
can indeed imagine the fun <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> and if it's only your guild in guild groups who does it then who cares, can be different though in mixed groups..

Spyderbite
02-16-2007, 08:32 AM
I suppose for those who allow greedy group/guild members to tag along, implementing the existing chest lotto system would work. But, I'd prefer to see it a toggle in the group options. When my regular group goes out and we stumble across a shiney it becomes a race. Every time I see somebody buff up I'm not sure if they've spotted an aggro or if they're just increasing their speed cause they spotted a question mark up the road. We have fun with it and I'd rather not have that fun taken away just because some groups have bad communication skills. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Thunderthyze
02-16-2007, 09:05 AM
<cite>Ranja wrote:</cite><blockquote>I was in a group with a healer that was shiney aggressive. Stupid idiot got us killed twice while he was harvesting shinies while we were fighting. It would be nice if the group you are in is fighting then no one can harvest - just like solo. </blockquote><p> Being a healer I can tell you that we stand no chance to harvest shineys if we are taking our role seriously. The scout of the group will always ninja it while the rest of us are clearing the path for him. Locking the node until combat ends wouldn't solve the problem either as the scouts will be standing over the sparkly, in stealth, waiting to snaffle it straight away.</p><p>My solution, though it may be perceived draconian, is to change the loot table so that all scout classes will only ever harvest blue sand form shiny nodes.</p><p>Seriously though, it would be interesting to find out what class types are the major sellers of the uber shineys from places like Castle Mistmoor. My money would be on scouts every time. </p>

Agnar D'Shar
02-16-2007, 09:14 AM
/agree - would love to see lotto implemented for shinies

Yarginis
02-16-2007, 09:50 AM
You don't "need" a lotto system if you just pay attention to the mobs. My favorite shiny rule is FFA, <b>but</b> if you aggro a mob getting it then you forfeit the shiny. This rule is especially fun in MMCastle. When groups tell me shiny s will be random/lotto'd, I lose all interest in them. At that point I don't even care to role in the lotto's, or bother to pick one up even if it's at my feet. It's the game that makes it fun. And to those that say a healer can't be 1st to a shiny and still do their job, that just isn't true. I win shiny races all the time, and I've never once had the tank die from me taking the time to harvest it. You just gotta know what you're doing. Hell, our tank is the one that always complains he never gets any, because I know how to harvest mid-combat without endangering him. Having other shiny-aggressive's in the group just makes it even more fun. I make it a point to learn ranges to a science, (aggro ranges, AE ranges, spell ranges, everything) and it pays off big time when dealing with other aggressive. I can inch myself to just outside the mobs aggro range, then stop, and the other aggressives's will, almost without fail, inch just a little closer. They pull the mob, and I am able to harvest in peace while they have aggro, and the tank is distracted pulling the mob off them. (Again, I have never had anyone die this way, so I'm still doing my job properly) It's all a matter of viewpoint, if you look at shiny's like a game of their own, then you'll come love racing for em.

Norrsken
02-16-2007, 10:11 AM
Please, no more hand holding rules.

Hohum
02-16-2007, 10:34 AM
<cite>steelbadger wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>mdell wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>steelbadger wrote:</cite><blockquote>Pah, you're all just jealous of the people who get the shinies <img src="/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Our guild groups can be a barrel of fun with everyone ignoring the mobs to get the shiny.  This option could destroy the fun that is the shiny rush. (btw, if 2 people harvest a shiny at exactly the same moment it seems that both can harvest it, we had it happen once.  One person got a purple mushroom an the other got the rare black mushroom <img src="/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ) </blockquote><p> Well my guild is a bit more friendly than yours i guess, and my guild leader has a way of harvesting the shiny</p><p>and posting what it is and then we roll on it.  He has been out of town for a while so i havent asked him how</p><p>he does this but a lotto option would speed this process up quite a bit.  I'm no proggrammer (or speller) but</p><p>with the lotto code already in for chests, i think this could be done fairly easily and i think that it should be put</p><p>into the game.</p></blockquote>Urm...  more friendly?  Because we like to have a laugh about the stupid situations shiny harvesting can get you into? I've had our MT aggro 2 groups in CMM to get a shiny, that was pretty funny. Numerous times I have pulled mobs onto the tank to allow me to get teh phat shiny. Every time there is a shout of "shiny, left room" on teamspeak the entire group immediately changes course for the shiny. And it's all just a laugh, we don't take it as seriously as you seem to, its a shiny, who cares?  Besides, if anyone NEEDS a shiny for a collection like the recognition then they get given it anyway.  Its the thrill of the hunt that we enjoy, not the kill. I just see a shiny lotto making it all a bit serious, who cares?  It's just a shiny, it doesn't make your character any stronger, longer lived (possibly shorter lived however <img src="/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ) It is not important enough to your progression to warrent the seriousness that lottoing would mean. </blockquote><p>LoL.  That is soooo reflective of a night out with a group of my guildies.  There's always at least 4 out of 6 after clickies when go playing any zone. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p><p>And there's always a situation which lightens the evening because someone thinks they can ninja hardvest under something's nose. </p><p>Ho </p>

KBern
02-16-2007, 10:43 AM
<p>I really cannot stand hand holding rules. </p><p>Seriously people, simply set the rule how you want the rotation to go and follow it.</p><p>We do not need rules for every [Removed for Content] thing in the game that is 100% totally under your control.</p><p>It is not up to SOE to manage your groups for you, if you cannot manage your own groups then you really shouldn't be in one.</p><p>Suck it up buttercups.</p>

Elorah
02-16-2007, 10:51 AM
Well a lotto would sound decent.  Whenever I would go into a zone (like MMC), it is a fight just to get one.  I play a healer and I have noticed that the MT and me never get any shinies in there, simply for the fact that we care more about the group dying then the shiney.  SO we choose to fight and then loot, but by the end of the fight, someone has it already.  I have been in groups where we wipe cause another group member had to get that shiny and ended up pulling the room and the hall.  It isnt fair for those that actually choose to wait.  I know that it is a choice, but it is the SAME people that get the shinies then.  People say to boot the players that do that, but then we would end up losing the majority of the group. I ended up buying the pieces that I needed for that collection.  I did it early enough that I was then able to go into that same zone and not fight over the blue shinies.  I could take my time collecting them and I made my money back for buying the earlier ones....

ChildofHate
02-16-2007, 12:27 PM
<p><b><span style="font-size: xx-large"><span style="color: #ccff99">SOE HAS IMPLIMENTED SHINEY LOTTO!!!!</span></span></b></p><p><b><span style="font-size: xx-large"><span style="color: #ccff99">BELIEVE IT!!!</span></span></b></p><p>Here's what you do:</p><ol><li>Group approaches a shiney</li><li>Everyone acts like adults who were taught how to share*</li><li>/random 1000</li><li>highest roll wins harvest rights.</li></ol><p>Personally i think the Alpha-Loot method is a much better way to go.  No possible chance of someone getting skipped due to the luck of randomness inherant in /ran 1000.  But then again, that requires everyone participating to follow rule #2.  See the footnote regarding such risks.  <b>OR</b>.. and this is a big "or", don't freakin worry about the ?'s and move on.</p><p>Cold, hard, LOGIC - FTW!</p><p><i>*<span style="font-size: xx-small">for those of you who never learned how to share, log off and go smack your parents over and over and over and over and over(x20) for <b>failing</b> to do their job.</span></i></p>

Maryk
02-16-2007, 12:34 PM
<p>I was looking at the broker today...(need three more items for the goggles)...24 plat for a piece of red stained glass...9 plat for a Silver Spike...7 plat for a vial of ogre blood.  </p><p>Rotation rule?  You gotta be kidding me.  With that much plat at stake...it makes all the sense in the world to use a fair lotto system.  More complicate the software?  The lotto software mechanics are already in the game.   </p><p>Granted 90% of all shinies are crap...but for those of us with a shinie-addiction...there's always that chance that one shinie is gonna be that piece of Red Stained Glass.</p><p>As a healer...when grouping...I've never had anyone suggest a "shinie rotation rule'...sounds good in theory but I think practically a lotto system is the best answer.  </p>

KBern
02-16-2007, 12:48 PM
<cite>Marykim wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I was looking at the broker today...(need three more items for the goggles)...24 plat for a piece of red stained glass...9 plat for a Silver Spike...7 plat for a vial of ogre blood.  </p><p>Rotation rule?  You gotta be kidding me.  With that much plat at stake...it makes all the sense in the world to use a fair lotto system.  More complicate the software?  The lotto software mechanics are already in the game.   </p><p>Granted 90% of all shinies are crap...but for those of us with a shinie-addiction...there's always that chance that one shinie is gonna be that piece of Red Stained Glass.</p><p>As a healer...when grouping...I've never had anyone suggest a "shinie rotation rule'...sounds good in theory but I think practically a lotto system is the best answer.  </p></blockquote><p> No it sounds good to mature individuals who know how to "play nice with others".  No "in theory" about it.</p><p>There is no need for a game mechanic for this.  </p><p>I know!  Lets have node lotto for rares while in groups also!  </p><p>If your grouping with people that cannot abide by NBG systems, or simple rotations, then you have bigger issues than simply getting a shot at a shiny.</p>

Vendibles
02-16-2007, 12:48 PM
While I don't really see the need to place a lotto in the game mechanics for the shinies, I wouldn't mind seeing a link in the group for what was harvested by a group member using the same system for when a group member loots an item from a mob or chest. Would help to speed up figuring out who in the group still needed the item or making it a FFA roll.

Emerix
02-16-2007, 01:09 PM
id really love that . while in group shinies should be like loot . thus people should roll on them if they need them .

ChildofHate
02-16-2007, 01:13 PM
<cite>Marykim wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I was looking at the broker today...(need three more items for the goggles)...24 plat for a piece of red stained glass...9 plat for a Silver Spike...7 plat for a vial of ogre blood.  </p><p>Rotation rule?  You gotta be kidding me.  With that much plat at stake...it makes all the sense in the world to use a fair lotto system.  More complicate the software?  The lotto software mechanics are already in the game.   </p><p>Granted 90% of all shinies are crap...but for those of us with a shinie-addiction...there's always that chance that one shinie is gonna be that piece of Red Stained Glass.</p><p>As a healer...when grouping...I've never had anyone suggest a "shinie rotation rule'...sounds good in theory but I think practically a lotto system is the best answer.  </p></blockquote><p>so you're saying the people you group with dont know how to act like adults?  You need a baby sitter moderating everyone making sure they play nice nice?</p><p>I am sure that is exactly what content / game mechanic that SOE wants to spend time designing next...</p>

UlteriorModem
02-16-2007, 01:14 PM
Good lord yes lets invent a game mechanic because people just have no self restraint these days. <img src="/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

TuinalOfTheNexus
02-16-2007, 01:16 PM
<cite>KBern wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Marykim wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I was looking at the broker today...(need three more items for the goggles)...24 plat for a piece of red stained glass...9 plat for a Silver Spike...7 plat for a vial of ogre blood.  </p><p>Rotation rule?  You gotta be kidding me.  With that much plat at stake...it makes all the sense in the world to use a fair lotto system.  More complicate the software?  The lotto software mechanics are already in the game.   </p><p>Granted 90% of all shinies are crap...but for those of us with a shinie-addiction...there's always that chance that one shinie is gonna be that piece of Red Stained Glass.</p><p>As a healer...when grouping...I've never had anyone suggest a "shinie rotation rule'...sounds good in theory but I think practically a lotto system is the best answer.  </p></blockquote><p> No it sounds good to mature individuals who know how to "play nice with others".  No "in theory" about it.</p><p>There is no need for a game mechanic for this.  </p><p>I know!  Lets have node lotto for rares while in groups also!  </p><p>If your grouping with people that cannot abide by NBG systems, or simple rotations, then you have bigger issues than simply getting a shot at a shiny.</p></blockquote><p>I can't abide an alpha loot system because it slows the group down. As does /randoming over NBG.</p><p>Not a problem in your newbie group in Blackburrow, considerably more of a problem in CMM when the #1 cause of wipes are repops. I tank so I usually harvest every shiny then distribute them at the end. However, if I'd got 3 silver spikes and 2 red stained glass fragments, there would be nothing stopping my lying and handing out a bunch of common ones instead, except my conscience. Much as I'd like to believe every player is honest or rich enough not to do this, I have my suspicions.</p><p>The code for a lotto system is already in there, it would be very simple to implement, and remove the incentive to risk pulling mobs to beat groupmates to a shiny. It would be a big help in pickup groups, and whilst some people posting seem to suggest grouping with guildmates and friends exclusively is the solution, this isn't suitable for casual players. I see it a simple extension of the loot system, which is much fairer and faster than the original EQ1 system that forced players to use their own rules. </p>

erin
02-16-2007, 01:20 PM
<cite>Vendibles wrote:</cite><blockquote>While I don't really see the need to place a lotto in the game mechanics for the shinies, I wouldn't mind seeing a link in the group for what was harvested by a group member using the same system for when a group member loots an item from a mob or chest. Would help to speed up figuring out who in the group still needed the item or making it a FFA roll.</blockquote>I like this idea very much.  Also prevents people from substituting cheap crap they are carrying for the item they actually harvested.  And yes, I'd include rare harvests in this, why not?  Its just added info, nothing wrong with that.

Ganlu
02-16-2007, 01:24 PM
I don't understand this reasoning... should they just remove any incentive anywhere people have for doing something stupid?  If you have someone in your group who does something idiotic like try to get a shiny and ends up getting himself or the group killed, don't group with them. How does it take any more time to do a rotation-based system?  Do people not know the alphabet?  You'll know immediately when you're next on the list, so you grab the next one you see, and so on... there doesn't even need to be a discussion.  This is even fairer than lotto because EVERYONE gets something at least, as opposed to the possibility of someone winning most of the lotto chances. The one thing I'd like to see is a simple identifier when someone in your group grabs a shiny saying what it is, similar to when they loot/transmute something.  This would even allow a leader to just loot everything and then it be distributed later, and people wouldn't have to assume their leader is screwing them.  It would also open up saying "grats" or something similar when you see a group member harvest a rare one on their turn, or make it easier for others to ask for one someone else may not need that they picked up.

HairyDustBall
02-16-2007, 03:01 PM
Ok let me address some of the nay sayers: First camp is the no need you can just be polite round robin,rand,etc... I agree you can do this but its a pain and can slow down the group which for those that are in the group for exp or purly to rush to hte nameds will be unhappy.  I am not looking for hand holding just away to speed up the process you know a utility!  If you don tlike it you should be able to shut it off like you can with loot lotto.... Second camp is the shiny run is fun...  And I agree to this and actualy Ilike it being fd or agro ditching on hte tank to get it is all good fun however I find in my group there are 3 or so people that find this fun and the rest find it irritating and dont want to play but would like a chance at a shiny.  BTW even if it were lottoed im sure we would still figh over looting it. Again I would not advocate this option unless it came with the abilty to turn it off.

DngrMou
02-16-2007, 03:21 PM
<cite>HairyDustBall wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ok let me address some of the nay sayers: First camp is the no need you can just be polite round robin,rand,etc... I agree you can do this but its a pain and can slow down the group which for those that are in the group for exp or purly to rush to hte nameds will be unhappy.  I am not looking for hand holding just away to speed up the process you know a utility!  If you don tlike it you should be able to shut it off like you can with loot lotto.... Second camp is the shiny run is fun...  And I agree to this and actualy Ilike it being fd or agro ditching on hte tank to get it is all good fun however I find in my group there are 3 or so people that find this fun and the rest find it irritating and dont want to play but would like a chance at a shiny.  BTW even if it were lottoed im sure we would still figh over looting it. Again I would not advocate this option unless it came with the abilty to turn it off. </blockquote> I still don't see why SOE should make changes to the game, to accomodate those who refuse to communicate with their groups.  Use the existing tools that are available now, problems are solved. 

Sebastien
02-16-2007, 03:27 PM
<cite>Silverpaws wrote:</cite><blockquote>You guys have to be kidding, right?  Its a stupid question mark.  Say something to your groupmate if they are snagging them all.  /g works really well to chat with other players.  I suggest people use that instead of asking the game to make all the decisions for them.  And if someone is still being stupid, boot them.  /boggle </blockquote><p> It seems to me you're just not very familiar with the situation.</p><p>First of all, some of these shinies sell for several plat on the market.  That means that these "stupid question marks", BY FAR, are the most valuable loot in the entire dungeon.  How would you like it if I proposed a rule that, from now on, Fabled loot from named dungeon bosses automatically goes to whomever is standing closet to the boss when he dies.  Sound like a bad idea?</p><p>If you play a caster in particular, or more generally if you do not play a tank, you have no hope of ever getting a shiney in most groups.</p><p>Given that these represent some of the most valuable loot in the entire game, I think it's reasonable to suggest that they be subject to the lotto.  But tell us, what is it that seems so bad to you about having them be lotto'd?  Is it safe for me to assume that you have no issue with things being fair?</p>

Ba
02-16-2007, 03:30 PM
<p>The number of stupid things I have seen happen in groups because someone was desperate to grab a shiny is mind-boggling.</p><p>At the very least there is always SOMEONE (usually a dps class) who doesn't engage and simply runs and grabs the shiny once the mobs are pulled. In more extreme situations I have watched people (usually not the MT) run into a crowded room and draw tons of aggro mobs on the group in their haste to grab that glowing ? (then they ask me - the healer - why I didn't heal them and just let them die.. *rolls eyes*)</p><p>Other times I have seen healers forget to heal, tanks forget to tank and people start arguing/whining all because of a dumb shiny...</p><p>If you want shinies just solo or duo. When your in a group you have a position to fill, a role to play and responsibilities to uphold.</p><p>Be a team player, ignore that shiny until its safe and then be mature, play fair and have the group /rand for it (you all worked to get access to it).</p>

Maryk
02-16-2007, 03:33 PM
<cite>Sebastien wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Silverpaws wrote:</cite><blockquote>You guys have to be kidding, right?  Its a stupid question mark.  Say something to your groupmate if they are snagging them all.  /g works really well to chat with other players.  I suggest people use that instead of asking the game to make all the decisions for them.  And if someone is still being stupid, boot them.  /boggle </blockquote><p> It seems to me you're just not very familiar with the situation.</p><p>First of all, some of these shinies sell for several plat on the market.  That means that these "stupid question marks", BY FAR, are the most valuable loot in the entire dungeon.  How would you like it if I proposed a rule that, from now on, Fabled loot from named dungeon bosses automatically goes to whomever is standing closet to the boss when he dies.  Sound like a bad idea?</p><p>If you play a caster in particular, or more generally if you do not play a tank, you have no hope of ever getting a shiney in most groups.</p><p>Given that these represent some of the most valuable loot in the entire game, I think it's reasonable to suggest that they be subject to the lotto.  But tell us, what is it that seems so bad to you about having them be lotto'd?  Is it safe for me to assume that you have no issue with things being fair?</p></blockquote>Well said Sebastien...

Dejah
02-16-2007, 03:50 PM
<p>Loot is loot.  You are in a group clearing mobs, some loot comes from the mobs themselves, and some comes from question marks.  You should be able to set the same group looting options for both in my opinion.  You don't need any skill to harvest a shiny, it isn't like a harvesting node.  It's just loot, sprinkled about zones.</p><p>You can argue that we don't need a lotto option for shinnies because people can sort it out themselves.  But if you use that argument then I hope you are also willing to argue that the Lotto option for standard loot is also not needed.  </p><p>Lotto, whether for standard loot or for shinnies, is simply a convenience.</p>

Oakum
02-16-2007, 04:09 PM
<p>While I find it fun to compete a little bit for shiny's in a good group who don't mind dying a lot, the lotto could take out "hard feelings" among group members like healers. Now Shaman and clerics with wards and reactives and fury's with thier dh's having all dh's do not endanger their mt/group as much as wardens do when they harvest a shiny. </p><p>Personally, when I harvest a shiney, rare or not, I first see if I need it, then my wife if she is in the group which she usually is. Then I link it and give it to the first person who says they need it or lotto it if the group is not fast pulling (waiting on someone afk or whatever). </p><p>If they do implement something like that which could be nice for MMCC, CMM, or anywhere where its a pickup group that is in a dungeon/instance that it's possible for careless harvesting to result in group death, they should also have the options to make it FFA and leader loot too to keep it consistant with the normal loot rules. </p>

electricninjasex
02-23-2007, 03:46 PM
Everybody harvests shinies at all times.  Raid players do it, distracted group healers do it, I do it, and even uber raid guild leaders do it.  And it gets f'ing annoying when people are pulling shinies when they should be paying attention.  Or when dealing with some small meaningless trash mob and some guy feels like he can grab the shiny I had my eye on because I'm distracted with actually killing it.  Everybody does it, don't even lie. Making shinies adhere to group lotto policy gets rid of all the nonsense. Or what if the loot window could tell you if you already had the shiny in all known collections?  Then you could decline to another player or alt who needed it without anybody wasting time meticulously scrolling through the journal window.  Very user friendly.  Or if you were solo, and it were a worthless shiny (extra large canvas bag, anyone?), you could discard it from the lotto window (with yes/no confirmation of course) without munging through your cramped inventory.

Logical_Knight
02-23-2007, 05:42 PM
<p>  Umm...</p><p>  I'm all for improving game mechanics, but this isn't a game mechanics issue, it's a human behavior issue.  Frankly, about 30 seconds of communication would solve this problem for all but the most stubborn players.  For those stubborn players, a kick from the group and some LFM spamming in the appropriate channels will work just fine.  I'm detecting an underlying opinion that dealing with the issue directly as mature people is just too difficult.  I hope I'm reading incorrectly...</p><p>   I'd be disappointed if development resources were spent on something like this.</p>

Balic
02-23-2007, 05:42 PM
<p>As someone posted, a rare ? can yield several plat on most servers.  So, imagine the ? is a plat just sitting there. Why should it be a foot race.  I mean there is a lotto mechanic for chest dropped loot.</p><p>Secondly, at the very least there should be a mechanic for letting everyone know what was harvested by whom.  Similar to the transmuting message.</p>