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zubad
02-14-2007, 04:11 PM
<p>Is there any plans to do a full on FFA PvP server for us that believe PvP is not just about good vs evil.  In many ways this format alone is limiting, especially when one side becomes overpopulated in terms of proportion of the server population.  Feel free to get rid of immunity's and the like and if you still feel it necessary to do level limits, the approach take by vanguard would be fine by me (20% either way from your current level).</p><p> I am sure that this has been discussed in the past, but I could not find the post that addressed it.</p><p> Thanks again,</p><p>Zural</p><p>Nagafen</p>

chrystolr
02-14-2007, 04:17 PM
No, just get rid of exiles...that is all. When you have 2 opposing cities good and evil it makes no sense not to have pvp set up as it is. And exiling just ruins that concept.

Greenion
02-14-2007, 04:34 PM
<p><span style="color: #00ff00"><span style="color: #339900">roflz</span>.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00"><span style="color: #339900">right away sir</span>.</span></p>

Spyderbite
02-14-2007, 06:38 PM
FFA rulesets are a disaster from the beginning. Regardless of what restrictions are put in place, people will find a way around them. I'd have no problem with your idea of a separate server for FFA PvP. Introduce it to the existing PvP servers however and I'm looking for a new game to play. Trying to get the simplest tasks done in an environment that caters to those "Kill anything that moves and breathes" is pointless. At least in a faction based ruleset I know that if I am solo and spot some people from the same faction nearby I can expect a little help. In FFA PvP the odds are I'll just be attacked by anyone else in the vicinity as well. Not my cup of tea. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Eluzay
02-14-2007, 06:46 PM
<cite>Kulssin wrote:</cite><blockquote>FFA rulesets are a disaster from the beginning. Regardless of what restrictions are put in place, people will find a way around them. I'd have no problem with your idea of a separate server for FFA PvP. Introduce it to the existing PvP servers however and I'm looking for a new game to play. Trying to get the simplest tasks done in an environment that caters to those "Kill anything that moves and breathes" is pointless. At least in a faction based ruleset I know that if I am solo and spot some people from the same faction nearby I can expect a little help. In FFA PvP the odds are I'll just be attacked by anyone else in the vicinity as well. Not my cup of tea. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote>from a pvpers point of view UO was the most successfull pvp game ever, and it was ffa. There were a lot of things about UO that most games do not have though, such as "not gear based" and "not level based" which most mmog players have come to expect.  I think the divergance from UO's format has "trained" people to grind for gear and levels and the industry thinks that these time sinks are what keep subscriptions up (which may have some validity). but to say ffa rulesets are a disaster is (in my singular opinion) not in any way true. In a ffa environment people make their own "factions" they make their own friends.  Sure the people used to this RvR gaming will take a few months to adjust but once you realize that nobody will play with you because you kos everyone you see then you will delete your ganker and roll a new toon that is a bit more responsible.  I personally think if someone is being an [Removed for Content] i want to kill them, whether they are "my side" or not... i dont care for RvR, halves your potential targets and halves your potential friends.

Greenion
02-14-2007, 07:13 PM
<p><span style="color: #00ff00"><span style="color: #339900">seriously doubt you will see them offer a different pvp rulesetted server than the ones we have</span>.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00"><span style="color: #339900">im all for them making an ffa version of the game</span>, <span style="color: #339900">this is just what i think is reality</span>.</span></p>

Spider
02-14-2007, 07:59 PM
<p>ff already exsists u wanna ffa ? fine roll exile and stay there no ones making you pick a faction </p><p>YOU have the options its no one elses fault that use it </p><p>as an exile u can attack any other exile at will AND u can attack ANY fp or q in ur lvl range at will its everything u want and or are asking for w/o imposing it on everyone else that thinks its utterly stupid so go exile and have a ball </p>

ckl
02-14-2007, 08:42 PM
<cite>Eluzay wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kulssin wrote:</cite><blockquote>FFA rulesets are a disaster from the beginning. Regardless of what restrictions are put in place, people will find a way around them. I'd have no problem with your idea of a separate server for FFA PvP. Introduce it to the existing PvP servers however and I'm looking for a new game to play. Trying to get the simplest tasks done in an environment that caters to those "Kill anything that moves and breathes" is pointless. At least in a faction based ruleset I know that if I am solo and spot some people from the same faction nearby I can expect a little help. In FFA PvP the odds are I'll just be attacked by anyone else in the vicinity as well. Not my cup of tea. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote>from a pvpers point of view UO was the most successfull pvp game ever, and it was ffa. There were a lot of things about UO that most games do not have though, such as "not gear based" and "not level based" which most mmog players have come to expect.  I think the divergance from UO's format has "trained" people to grind for gear and levels and the industry thinks that these time sinks are what keep subscriptions up (which may have some validity). <b> but to say ffa rulesets are a disaster is (in my singular opinion) not in any way true.</b> In a ffa environment people make their own "factions" they make their own friends.  Sure the people used to this RvR gaming will take a few months to adjust but once you realize that nobody will play with you because you kos everyone you see then you will delete your ganker and roll a new toon that is a bit more responsible.  I personally think if someone is being an [Removed for Content] i want to kill them, whether they are "my side" or not... i dont care for RvR, halves your potential targets and halves your potential friends. </blockquote>Eluzay, most of the time you're talking out of your [Removed for Content] or pointing out to me how I'm flaming, but here you're spot on. UO was great. It catered to those who weren't lazy and could ascertain for themselves their enemies. Exile may allow you to attack anyone and others to attack you, but what defines a true, pure FFA experience is the sociopolitical aspect that Eluzay speaks of in his third paragraph above. People make their own guilds and alliances, and these guilds and alliances determine their enemies for themselves. I especially agree with "if someone is being an [Removed for Content] i want to kill them, whether they are "my side" or not." Exile in EQ2 is about as close to pure FFA as the USSR was to pure, unadulterated communism.

Greenion
02-14-2007, 08:58 PM
<p>Exile in EQ2 is about as close to pure FFA as the USSR was to pure, unadulterated communism. </p><p><span style="color: #00ff00"><span style="color: #339900">roflz</span><b>!</b></span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00"><span style="color: #339900">quite</span><b>.</b></span></p>

Spider
02-14-2007, 09:52 PM
<cite>cklab wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Eluzay wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kulssin wrote:</cite><blockquote>FFA rulesets are a disaster from the beginning. Regardless of what restrictions are put in place, people will find a way around them. I'd have no problem with your idea of a separate server for FFA PvP. Introduce it to the existing PvP servers however and I'm looking for a new game to play. Trying to get the simplest tasks done in an environment that caters to those "Kill anything that moves and breathes" is pointless. At least in a faction based ruleset I know that if I am solo and spot some people from the same faction nearby I can expect a little help. In FFA PvP the odds are I'll just be attacked by anyone else in the vicinity as well. Not my cup of tea. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote>from a pvpers point of view UO was the most successfull pvp game ever, and it was ffa. There were a lot of things about UO that most games do not have though, such as "not gear based" and "not level based" which most mmog players have come to expect.  I think the divergance from UO's format has "trained" people to grind for gear and levels and the industry thinks that these time sinks are what keep subscriptions up (which may have some validity). <b> but to say ffa rulesets are a disaster is (in my singular opinion) not in any way true.</b> In a ffa environment people make their own "factions" they make their own friends.  Sure the people used to this RvR gaming will take a few months to adjust but once you realize that nobody will play with you because you kos everyone you see then you will delete your ganker and roll a new toon that is a bit more responsible.  I personally think if someone is being an [Removed for Content] i want to kill them, whether they are "my side" or not... i dont care for RvR, halves your potential targets and halves your potential friends. </blockquote>Eluzay, most of the time you're talking out of your [I cannot control my vocabulary] or pointing out to me how I'm flaming, but here you're spot on. UO was great. It catered to those who weren't lazy and could ascertain for themselves their enemies. Exile may allow you to attack anyone and others to attack you, but what defines a true, pure FFA experience is the sociopolitical aspect that Eluzay speaks of in his third paragraph above. People make their own guilds and alliances, and these guilds and alliances determine their enemies for themselves. I especially agree with "if someone is being an [Removed for Content] i want to kill them, whether they are "my side" or not." <b>Exile in EQ2 is about as close to pure FFA as the USSR was to pure, unadulterated communism</b>. </blockquote><p> exile in eq DOES give u the ability to determine who your enimies are in pvp you can form exile guilds and groups and such  and if someones being a [Removed for Content] u can kick them from group and kill them </p><p>what more do u want ?</p>

Sinistria
02-15-2007, 12:13 PM
exile is not ffa. its a third team. and the only oen that can attack his own one. ffa there are no teams. you can group, talk, fight and form guilds with everybody. like one said before: EQ2 is as far way from ffa like like windows from beeing a good OS <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> vanguard has FFA and its like making me wanna reap my hairs out but: its hell lot of fun still. you just need to be thick-skinned. maybe SOE will make a merge/move and maybe there will be chance to implement a real PvP ruleset (not even ffa needed, just a REAL pvp ruleset. the one it has now is more then a joke. no immunity, no bindrushing, CRs)

Eluzay
02-15-2007, 01:16 PM
<cite>cklab wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Eluzay wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kulssin wrote:</cite><blockquote>FFA rulesets are a disaster from the beginning. Regardless of what restrictions are put in place, people will find a way around them. I'd have no problem with your idea of a separate server for FFA PvP. Introduce it to the existing PvP servers however and I'm looking for a new game to play. Trying to get the simplest tasks done in an environment that caters to those "Kill anything that moves and breathes" is pointless. At least in a faction based ruleset I know that if I am solo and spot some people from the same faction nearby I can expect a little help. In FFA PvP the odds are I'll just be attacked by anyone else in the vicinity as well. Not my cup of tea. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote>from a pvpers point of view UO was the most successfull pvp game ever, and it was ffa. There were a lot of things about UO that most games do not have though, such as "not gear based" and "not level based" which most mmog players have come to expect.  I think the divergance from UO's format has "trained" people to grind for gear and levels and the industry thinks that these time sinks are what keep subscriptions up (which may have some validity). <b> but to say ffa rulesets are a disaster is (in my singular opinion) not in any way true.</b> In a ffa environment people make their own "factions" they make their own friends.  Sure the people used to this RvR gaming will take a few months to adjust but once you realize that nobody will play with you because you kos everyone you see then you will delete your ganker and roll a new toon that is a bit more responsible.  I personally think if someone is being an [Removed for Content] i want to kill them, whether they are "my side" or not... i dont care for RvR, halves your potential targets and halves your potential friends. </blockquote><span style="font-size: large">Eluzay, most of the time you're talking out of your [I cannot control my vocabulary] or pointing out to me how I'm flaming,</span> but here you're spot on. UO was great. It catered to those who weren't lazy and could ascertain for themselves their enemies. Exile may allow you to attack anyone and others to attack you, but what defines a true, pure FFA experience is the sociopolitical aspect that Eluzay speaks of in his third paragraph above. People make their own guilds and alliances, and these guilds and alliances determine their enemies for themselves. I especially agree with "if someone is being an [Removed for Content] i want to kill them, whether they are "my side" or not." Exile in EQ2 is about as close to pure FFA as the USSR was to pure, unadulterated communism. </blockquote>I am rarely talking out of my (why cant you control your vocabulary?) but the enlarged sentence is a good example of you flaming (which is something I enjoy pointing out) but at least you agreed with me while flaming when someone disagree's with you it does not mean they are talking out of their (why cant you control your vocabulary?). I call em like I see em, and that is all.

zubad
02-15-2007, 02:56 PM
<p>Thank you all for your responses.  Hopefully with the merge of the other pvp servers, they can take one of the spare servers and try something totally new.</p><p>Great discussion, thanks.</p><p>Zural</p>

Mechizedek
02-16-2007, 08:07 AM
I am more interested in pvp quests!"u must find and kill an inquisitor" or "hunt down 10 queynosians for the Overlord".At least some writs......

q149
02-16-2007, 12:45 PM
<cite>Kulssin wrote:</cite><blockquote>FFA rulesets are a disaster from the beginning. Regardless of what restrictions are put in place, people will find a way around them.  Trying to get the simplest tasks done in an environment that caters to those "Kill anything that moves and breathes" is pointless. At least in a faction based ruleset I know that if I am solo and spot some people from the same faction nearby I can expect a little help. In FFA PvP the odds are I'll just be attacked by anyone else in the vicinity as well. Not my cup of tea. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote> Translation - " I have never played FFA and have not the slightest clue what the hell I am talking about."

Badaxe Ba
02-16-2007, 01:02 PM
<p>exile does offer a FFA gamestyle or close to one.  </p><p>I don't think we need FFA, I just don't see the benefits.  A lot of players don't want this, and PvP has enough problems that need more attention than an unwanted side issue.</p>

Radigazt
02-16-2007, 01:10 PM
<p>To the OP, no, as I understand it the idea of an FFA server isn't even being considered, so it's definitely not going to happen anytime soon, if ever.  But, the current exile system could become workable with only a minor tweak.  If they made exiles hittable by the same level ranges that Freeporters and Qeynosians have, then I think the exile faction would work quite well.  But as it is, exiling is only viable at level 70 really (or 60 if you don't mind being ganked by twice as many deep orange-cons, lol).  The oddest part of this rule is that upon reaching level 70, it not only becomes viable, it actually becomes encouragable because raiding is a staple of level 70 players, and an exile guild gains the benefits of every class, and isn't limited to just the subset each city gets.  You can have a Mystic and a Coercer on the same raid, while a Conjuror uses Call of the Hero to get you there and an Inquisitor sends you back home.  Neither Qeynos guilds nor Freeport guilds can get those combos, and as such, Exile level 70 guilds have a lot of benefits.  But until level 70, being able to be hit by anyone--regardless of level--prevents the Exile faction from being viable.  </p><p> I like the faction idea, but I find it harder and harder to find targets.  If Exiles had the same range limits that Freeporters and Qeynosians do (and IMHO they should), then we'd have a workable 3-faction system.  As it is, we have a 2 faction system except for level 70 raiding guilds, where we have 1 good faction and 2 less-efficient raiding factions.  Sad really, but that's the implications of removing the level ranges on Exiles.  </p>

Greenion
02-16-2007, 01:30 PM
<p><span style="color: #339900">i put out an idea about a way for a swashbuckler to earn certain brigand skills for use in raids against npc targets only.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">it would be a pvp reward, you[d have an amount of faction relatable to the tier of the skill, and spend an appropriate amount of status and coin (like pvp gear) to gain the skill.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">in this way the teamed factions could utilize those skills they do not have in raids without messing up the story behind the game.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">the rewards are earned also, which promotes another dimension in character development, and since its a pvp reward of sorts, encourages more pvp.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">i think the lack of level differentiation toward exiles in open zones is about the best thing about the faction. yep it makes it tricky to play in open zones...thats why i like it.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">id like to see pvp gear for exiles mostly becuase id like credit for pvping under greater duress as i do so in lower tiers at greater risk, and itd give me something to work toward from my pvp actions...as it stands i just kill peeps...well, because they are there.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">playing an exile is not like being in an ffa environment, its actually alot harder...it is easier the higher level you are relative to max level (which will go up btw)</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">im fairly sure they arent planning an ffa server and ruleset for eqii, im all for it if they want to do it though.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">for this reason, i really think exiles should be given alot of thought by developers...it is a unique thing within their ruleset that no other game to my limited knowledge offers...capitalizing on it might help the poppulation of the pvp game.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">is it too little too late? i dont know.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">one of the problems with the exile faction in my opinion is it didnt launch with the pvp servers, coming afterward they gave all existing players a chance to exile at any level...which imo screwed up the sactity of the inherant difficulty one is supposed to face being an exile...</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">everyone watched the hordes of raiding guilds easily exile at endgame...which gave exiles all the issue we have.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">i think it should have been limited to level 30, launched with the pvp ruleset (i know it wasnt ready and its not a perfect real world eh, im not bashing the devs here, in fact id thank them again for doing it, i was one of the only ones on the forums talking about it at the time)</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">i think you should lose your skills when you exile not when you finish the quest to the other side, all that did was further facilitate their pet raid guilds, the faction is pretty much tailored for them.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">any amount of status you earned while in one city should not vanish, when approaching the other city if you had like 50,000 royal antonican faction, you should have to work it all off before fp will talk to you.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">so in ways they made the faction easy for specific playstyles imo...its pretty obvious.</span></p>

Ji
02-16-2007, 01:34 PM
Thats about as likely as crating a guild and making everyone guild leader with full permissions : )

Greenion
02-16-2007, 01:41 PM
<span style="color: #339900">sorry i dont get your point...</span>

Ji
02-16-2007, 01:58 PM
<p>Sorry I wasnt refering to your post but rather my answer for the main posters question.</p><p>IMO it is possible but would be a mess.</p>

Greenion
02-16-2007, 04:22 PM
<cite>Jixx wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Sorry I wasnt refering to your post but rather my answer for the main posters question.</p><p>IMO it is possible but would be a mess.</p></blockquote><p> <span style="color: #339900">yep, quite possible, but the interfactionality (for lack of a better term) the reprecussions of same factioned killing would prove complex imo, also i think each npc should have a seperate factional opinion of every player reflective of that player's actions toward tjhe npcs personal interests...</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">example, if an npc is a merchant in one zone and you buy from him and a different merchant, but frequent the other merchant more often, i think the less frequented merchant will either charge you more out of spite or charge you less to try and woo your business away from the competitor.</span></p>

Findara
02-16-2007, 05:05 PM
When you say FF are you all talking no groups, no guilds?  Or as in FFA with the rules of the PVE servers but exile openness? As in guild/group with any class/race, and attack any class/race/level?

Metal_Starz
02-18-2007, 02:45 AM
 Yeah, lets add another server and watch the population go to nothing....

Elslav
02-18-2007, 01:04 PM
I am all for this, besides being much more enjoyable and less restrictive PVP a new PVP server would give incentive for returning players such as myself a place to start that isnt all level locked twinks at low to medium levels and then PvE land end game to support the level locked twinks.

tass
02-18-2007, 01:05 PM
lol I know. The first sentance says it all. <span style="color: #990033">FFA rulesets are a disaster from the beginning. Regardless of what restrictions are put in place, people will find a way around them. <span style="color: #000000">Dont know if u ever played a ffa game (doubt it) but their are no rulesets and restrictions so their is no way to "get around" them. Theirs penelties sure but as for a 8 lv limit in some zone or no attacking greens or reds or greys nope. If somebody's in a [Removed for Content] mood and u happen along and they're bigger ur gonna get ur [Removed for Content] slapped all around that country side. </span></span>

tass
02-18-2007, 01:07 PM
Ok... sense this new board thats a nockoff of vanguards forums forgot to post an entire paragrapg of my last post and theres no dam edit button i'll post it again. <span style="color: #990033"><span style="color: #000000">Dont know if u ever played a ffa game (doubt it) but their are no rulesets and restrictions so their is no way to "get around" them. Theirs penelties sure but as for a 8 lv limit in some zone or no attacking greens or reds or greys nope. If somebody's in a [Removed for Content] mood and u happen along and they're bigger ur gonna get ur [Removed for Content] slapped all around that country side. </span></span>

tass
02-18-2007, 01:07 PM
<span style="color: #990033"><span style="color: #000000">Dont know if u ever played a ffa game (doubt it) but their are no rulesets and restrictions so their is no way to "get around" them. Theirs penelties sure but as for a 8 lv limit in some zone or no attacking greens or reds or greys nope. If somebody's in a [Removed for Content] mood and u happen along and they're bigger ur gonna get ur [Removed for Content] slapped all around that country side. </span></span>

tass
02-18-2007, 01:08 PM
This god dam thing wont print my dam paragraph. [Removed for Content]. Fine i'll reexplain it. It basicly said there are no rulsets or restrictions in FFA. [Removed for Content] forum.

Greenion
02-18-2007, 01:35 PM
<p><span style="color: #339900">um...medz dood...</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">anywayz, the edit key is to the top right corner of each of your posts, it wont show up on other peoples posts, just yours, its next to the quote key.</span></p>

tass
02-18-2007, 02:04 PM
still not seeing an edit button just an arrow. Still doesnt change the fact this forum is spitting out paragraphs. That blank reply was the paragraph.

Greenion
02-18-2007, 02:06 PM
<p><span style="color: #339900">hmmm must be a glitch...i see the edit keys on my posts but not other peeps...</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">might notify a mod eh...</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">sry bout your paragraph dood.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">edit> for effect, roflz.</span></p>