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Greenion
02-12-2007, 11:12 PM
<p><span style="color: #33ff00">....<span style="color: #336600">should get pvp gear</span>.</span></p><p><span style="color: #33ff00"><b>/</b><span style="color: #336600">discuss</span><b><u>.</u></b></span></p>

EQ2Playa432
02-12-2007, 11:41 PM
they have the advantage of any class....not needed

CresentBlade
02-12-2007, 11:43 PM
I would rather see people be on Qeynos or Freeport and no middle ground. I would say no to the gear but Sony needs to make up its mind if Exiles is going to be third faction or not. If Exiles becomes a real third faction then yes you all should have gear.

CresentBlade
02-12-2007, 11:45 PM
HAHAHAH Green your title is newbie <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

chrystolr
02-13-2007, 12:12 AM
Exiles were a bad idea to begin with, we shouldn't give them more advantages! Besides if you did that then everyone one would exile.

Greenion
02-13-2007, 12:20 AM
<p><span style="color: #336600">roflz, first thread.</span></p><p><span style="color: #336600">i dont care what they do witht heir game at this point.</span></p>

lllo0o0ol
02-13-2007, 12:24 AM
lol your a forum user :p

Captain Apple Darkberry
02-13-2007, 01:25 AM
<span style="color: #ff6600">I'd like to see Haven become what it was intended...   ...a ~temporary~ stop for the wayfarer between cities. The penalties for being there should be more severe than it is... SOE has not made a FFA server.  The current servers are faction based; Freeport or Qeynos. While Haven is needed for betrayal, thats what it should be for...   ...betrayal. </span>

DementedGerbil
02-13-2007, 02:27 AM
exiles.... should be allowed to complete Claymore series

Zheen
02-13-2007, 03:21 AM
I agree with Apple but I would like to add that betrayal should be a one time deal. I don't think if someone betrays the Queen or Overlord that they would welcome them back.

Nummer
02-13-2007, 06:13 AM
<p>EQ2 is realm verse realm. </p><p> i think exiles should be transitionary - no exception. a good way to enforce this would be something like permenant character death after 2 months exile, and exiling should be a non repeatable quest line.</p><p>if anything exile should have less than they have. an underground railway should not have acess to a broker, merchant or repair station - haven is a transition station on the route to the other side. </p><p> PS- i hate exiles.</p>

Amphibia
02-13-2007, 06:35 AM
<cite>Captain wrote:</cite><blockquote><span style="color: #ff6600">I'd like to see Haven become what it was intended...   ...a ~temporary~ stop for the wayfarer between cities. The penalties for being there should be more severe than it is... SOE has not made a FFA server.  The current servers are faction based; Freeport or Qeynos. While Haven is needed for betrayal, thats what it should be for...   ...betrayal. </span></blockquote>I may have agreed if it had been implented that way from the start. It wasn't. Now there are established exiled guilds in Haven on many servers, and it is too late to go back on it now, imo. Personally, I really like it in Haven. There are some disadvantages, sure... but I think I speak for everyone in my guild when I say we're having tons of fun. Isn't that what a game like this is about? I can understand how betrayal back and forth several times may not fit in so well from a RP'ers point of view. But what is the problem with exiles? You can imagine us as outlaws, not wanted or accepted anywhere. We have nowhere to go, so we hide in an underground cave. We stick together for mutual protection, since we're hunted by everyone. Is that really so bad...?   <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Zheen
02-13-2007, 07:46 AM
I agree pink one but I think the worship of opposing gods in the same faction makes things worse. How can one who worships the God of Hate fight next to one who worships the god of honor?

swiftne
02-13-2007, 08:45 AM
<p>So let me get this straight.... you all think it should be BLACK and WHITE and no GRAY?</p><p>hmmmmmmmm</p>

Zheen
02-13-2007, 08:50 AM
I don't mind betrayal and I don't mind exile but I think once you betray you city it should be permanent. It just makes sense.

Greenion
02-13-2007, 09:29 AM
<cite>Zheen wrote:</cite><blockquote>I agree pink one but I think the worship of opposing gods in the same faction makes things worse. How can one who worships the God of Hate fight next to one who worships the god of honor? </blockquote><p> <span style="color: #00ff00"><span style="color: #336600">i think this should go guild by guild</span>...<span style="color: #336600">for example</span>...</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00"><span style="color: #336600">in an exile guild a guild leader would designate the alignment of deities available to worship by their guild by the choice of deity the guild leader makes</span>.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00"><span style="color: #336600">thus allowing an option in ways</span>, <span style="color: #336600">but limiting it in ways also</span>.</span></p>

ckl
02-13-2007, 10:30 AM
<cite>EQ2Playa432 wrote:</cite><blockquote>they have the advantage of any class....not needed </blockquote> Sad that that is considered an advantage. Personally I think all classes should be available to all sides. I also think the ffa exile system is how the pvp should have been done on this server ruleset, so I'm not averse to giving exiles pvp rewards. Why punish them even more for deciding to take the hard route?

Ashen-Shugar
02-13-2007, 10:39 AM
everyone should exile then we have FFA PvP with factions formed from guilds ... it would solve alot of problems in 1 go .. especially the one where being a twink is ny benefit at all .. As for PvP gear in the current environment , it's way too easy to get and it's very overpowered. For comparable gear we in exile have to PvE raid very very hard content which is imo a detriment to the PvP on the servers.  PvP gear should be nurfed or made available to all.

Strums
02-13-2007, 11:38 AM
<cite>Ashen-Shugar wrote:</cite><blockquote>As for PvP gear in the current environment , it's way too easy to get and it's very overpowered. For comparable gear we in exile have to PvE raid very very hard content which is imo a detriment to the PvP on the servers.  PvP gear should be nurfed or made available to all.</blockquote><p>Yes...make the exiles more powerful than they allready are...or nerf everyone elses pvp gear.../lol  When is the last time ANY group of exiles had a decent fight against any group from freeport on the Nagafen server?  Im not trying to rag on the exiles, but seriously...every time FP's run into exiles, the exiles just mow them down...or at least that has been my experiance in T7 on Nagafen.</p><p>PvP servers are just what they say...PVP Servers...that is what the gear is intended for.  Neither allignment on PVP can raid the same "very very hard content" as you put it, that the exiles can to obtain the same type of gear...so to some pvp gear is all we got.</p><p>And as for "pvp gear in the current environment is way to easy to get" have you every tryed pvping with a bard?  How bout a caster?  Guardian maybe?  Yeah, maybe for particular classes pvp gear is easy to obtain, but for others bud it is not.  With out the support of a strong pvp group / guild "freeport seems to lack this as of late" pvp in T7 is very hard.  Dealing with 2x's of exiles running around ganking solos or small groups in KOS, and camping the nek spires only to flee to Haven when they auctuly have a fair fight going on...its simply a mess.  </p><p>I say no to exiles.  With the current lore of the game, Haven should be a short stop along the way.  period. </p>

Strums
02-13-2007, 11:39 AM
<p>Edit to my last post:  </p><p>Lol, my guild under my name says im in Darkhand lol.../sigh</p>

Eluzay
02-13-2007, 01:33 PM
<cite>cklab wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>EQ2Playa432 wrote:</cite><blockquote>they have the advantage of any class....not needed </blockquote> Sad that that is considered an advantage. Personally I think all classes should be available to all sides. I also think the ffa exile system is how the pvp should have been done on this server ruleset, so I'm not averse to giving exiles pvp rewards. Why punish them even more for deciding to take the hard route?</blockquote> I am sorry but when you exiled you KNEW you would get no pvp rewards, you can always go to FP or Q if you want them. As has already been noted by another posters exiles rule the skys in KoS. So why give more advantage? All sides do NOT have access to all classes or raiding would be much easier for us and that is a fact. Exile is supposted to be the hard road, any exile complaining that it is too hard should just convert to one of the factions. I wont argue that exile is a faction or not, but they are not supposed to be equal numbers to FP or Q... and at least from a pvp perspective there are more exiles actively pvping on nag than any other faction.  If you get faction and rewards then that isnt exile, it is just "the third faction" ... exiles means devoid of a faction, pvp gear is faction gear.

Ultimatum
02-13-2007, 02:41 PM
I'm happy with exile just the way it is...I don't want or need PvP gear at all.  We are exiled from the city factions and as other people have put it, PvP gear is FACTION gear... The ONLY thing I'd like to see is for exiles to be able to finish the claymore line...PvP gear is one thing as it is a reward for gaining faction in your city, but to alienate exiles from the most popular quest progression in T7 is absurd.

Eluzay
02-13-2007, 02:53 PM
<cite>Ultimatum wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm happy with exile just the way it is...I don't want or need PvP gear at all.  We are exiled from the city factions and as other people have put it, PvP gear is FACTION gear... The ONLY thing I'd like to see is for exiles to be able to finish the claymore line...PvP gear is one thing as it is a reward for gaining faction in your city, but to alienate exiles from the most popular quest progression in T7 is absurd. </blockquote> stop it, not another exile i am going to like! geesh!!! i agree claymore + exile = need

ckl
02-13-2007, 03:28 PM
<cite>Eluzay wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>cklab wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>EQ2Playa432 wrote:</cite><blockquote>they have the advantage of any class....not needed </blockquote> Sad that that is considered an advantage. Personally I think all classes should be available to all sides. I also think the ffa exile system is how the pvp should have been done on this server ruleset, so I'm not averse to giving exiles pvp rewards. Why punish them even more for deciding to take the hard route?</blockquote> I am sorry but when you exiled you KNEW you would get no pvp rewards, you can always go to FP or Q if you want them. As has already been noted by another posters exiles rule the skys in KoS. So why give more advantage? All sides do NOT have access to all classes or raiding would be much easier for us and that is a fact. Exile is supposted to be the hard road, any exile complaining that it is too hard should just convert to one of the factions. I wont argue that exile is a faction or not, but they are not supposed to be equal numbers to FP or Q... and at least from a pvp perspective there are more exiles actively pvping on nag than any other faction.  If you get faction and rewards then that isnt exile, it is just "the third faction" ... exiles means devoid of a faction, pvp gear is faction gear. </blockquote> More evidence of why EQ2 is no longer the main MMO I play. Maybe when they institute a real pvp system instead of the rvr crap, they'll pry me away from Tharridon.

Eluzay
02-13-2007, 04:12 PM
<cite>cklab wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Eluzay wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>cklab wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>EQ2Playa432 wrote:</cite><blockquote>they have the advantage of any class....not needed </blockquote> Sad that that is considered an advantage. Personally I think all classes should be available to all sides. I also think the ffa exile system is how the pvp should have been done on this server ruleset, so I'm not averse to giving exiles pvp rewards. Why punish them even more for deciding to take the hard route?</blockquote> I am sorry but when you exiled you KNEW you would get no pvp rewards, you can always go to FP or Q if you want them. As has already been noted by another posters exiles rule the skys in KoS. So why give more advantage? All sides do NOT have access to all classes or raiding would be much easier for us and that is a fact. Exile is supposted to be the hard road, any exile complaining that it is too hard should just convert to one of the factions. I wont argue that exile is a faction or not, but they are not supposed to be equal numbers to FP or Q... and at least from a pvp perspective there are more exiles actively pvping on nag than any other faction.  If you get faction and rewards then that isnt exile, it is just "the third faction" ... exiles means devoid of a faction, pvp gear is faction gear. </blockquote> More evidence of why EQ2 is no longer the main MMO I play. Maybe when they institute a real pvp system instead of the rvr crap, they'll pry me away from Tharridon.</blockquote>and you are here why then?   seems you didnt need much prying to come to the message board of a game you dont like to post! lol <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> g'day mate

Greenion
02-13-2007, 05:32 PM
<cite>Ultimatum wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm happy with exile just the way it is...I don't want or need PvP gear at all.  We are exiled from the city factions and as other people have put it, PvP gear is FACTION gear... The ONLY thing I'd like to see is for exiles to be able to finish the claymore line...PvP gear is one thing as it is a reward for gaining faction in your city, but to alienate exiles from the most popular quest progression in T7 is absurd. </blockquote><p> <span style="color: #336600">endgamers arent the only people playing the game....</span></p><p><span style="color: #336600">you exiled at or near max level...with a large guild, because of this you dont need pvp gear.</span></p><p><span style="color: #336600">and because of this you want the claymore line of quests.</span></p><p><span style="color: #336600">if faction is the reason for negating the former, it surely is the same reason negating the latter.</span></p>

Greenion
02-13-2007, 05:36 PM
<p><span style="color: #336600">um...nm.</span></p>

ckl
02-13-2007, 05:47 PM
<cite>Eluzay wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>cklab wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Eluzay wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>cklab wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>EQ2Playa432 wrote:</cite><blockquote>they have the advantage of any class....not needed </blockquote> Sad that that is considered an advantage. Personally I think all classes should be available to all sides. I also think the ffa exile system is how the pvp should have been done on this server ruleset, so I'm not averse to giving exiles pvp rewards. Why punish them even more for deciding to take the hard route?</blockquote> I am sorry but when you exiled you KNEW you would get no pvp rewards, you can always go to FP or Q if you want them. As has already been noted by another posters exiles rule the skys in KoS. So why give more advantage? All sides do NOT have access to all classes or raiding would be much easier for us and that is a fact. Exile is supposted to be the hard road, any exile complaining that it is too hard should just convert to one of the factions. I wont argue that exile is a faction or not, but they are not supposed to be equal numbers to FP or Q... and at least from a pvp perspective there are more exiles actively pvping on nag than any other faction.  If you get faction and rewards then that isnt exile, it is just "the third faction" ... exiles means devoid of a faction, pvp gear is faction gear. </blockquote> More evidence of why EQ2 is no longer the main MMO I play. Maybe when they institute a real pvp system instead of the rvr crap, they'll pry me away from Tharridon.</blockquote>and you are here why then?   seems you didnt need much prying to come to the message board of a game you dont like to post! lol <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> g'day mate </blockquote><p>How you equate not playing a game as my main game and not liking a game I'll never understand. I dislike the pvp system in the game, which is why I don't play the game but a few times a week. </p><p>I'm still scratching my head though about how I gave you the impression that I don't like the game. </p>

CresentBlade
02-13-2007, 06:30 PM
<p>They should just make exiles the third faction and the only way you can be a exile is by starting at level one. All current exiles get kicked back to their orginal teams, if you want to be exile you have to do it from the get go no sissy level 60+ switching to exile at the end game. Then we give you everything everyone else has!</p><p>Would have to come up with a new way to betray though.<img src="/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

ScurvyTRatt
02-13-2007, 07:10 PM
<p>Ugh, exile was a terrible idea in place of what should have been done. An FFA server.</p><p>However, now that the mistake is made just leave it be don't make it worse. And if you were to decide to make it worse give Freeport the ability to have all the Qeynos classes and Qeynos the ability to get the Freeport classes.</p>

Ashen-Shugar
02-15-2007, 07:18 AM
I'll try to address some of the points people have made <ul><li>I'm not moaning about exile being tough - I like it being harder <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></li><li>I can't see why people have an issue with the current exile system existing unless your a roleplayer where I can see why being able to constantly betray back and forth would seem stupid - from my point of view do whatever you like on Venekor but leave naggy alone we are NOT roleplayers and personally I destest roleplaying and all it entails</li><li>Why should exiles not get PvP gear? I've not heard a decent non RP argument on this yet and I'm sure someone could RP a situation for PvP gear if they wanted too. As stated PvP gear should be available on PvP servers and Exiles PvP more than any other faction. I really hate having to PvE to get gear , if I wanted to PvE I would have stayed on a PvE server....</li><li>FFA PvP would be awesome - people think it would be a gank fest but thats just not true .. Guilds would be the 'factions' and going off ganking lowbies of a powerfull guild for no rewards or griefing would provoke a angry reaction from that guild so there would be alot more balance than there currently is with the cities where 1 is always more powerful than the other. With guild alliances , guild wars etc etc it would be fun for RP and non RP alike. For every person who quit because of FFA PvP there would be many people returing or starting new to check it out .. Vanguard is a terrible game but the ruleset on FFA PvP is very nice and has attracted alot of the hardcore and skilled PvPers (as well as the dross like Gilgame and Fingerzz)</li><li>I'm sorry but PvP gear is p!ss easy to get in the current form! If you get a decent group together of guildies etc regardless of class you will farm tokens for fun .. if you wanted to solo stuff pvp or pve you should have picked a solo friendly class , if FP is too tough for you atm go to Qeynos(don' bother with exile you'll /cry irl after about 10 mins) .. harsh but true </li></ul>

Eluzay
02-15-2007, 11:22 AM
<cite>Ashen-Shugar wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'll try to address some of the points people have made <ul><li>I'm not moaning about exile being tough - I like it being harder <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></li><li>I can't see why people have an issue with the current exile system existing unless your a roleplayer where I can see why being able to constantly betray back and forth would seem stupid - from my point of view do whatever you like on Venekor but leave naggy alone we are NOT roleplayers and personally I destest roleplaying and all it entails</li><li>Why should exiles not get PvP gear? I've not heard a decent non RP argument on this yet and I'm sure someone could RP a situation for PvP gear if they wanted too. As stated PvP gear should be available on PvP servers and Exiles PvP more than any other faction. I really hate having to PvE to get gear , if I wanted to PvE I would have stayed on a PvE server....<span style="color: #0000ff"><span style="color: #33ff99">It has nothing to do with role play, pvp gear isnt actually pvp gear, it is faction gear, it has a requirement of "must be citizen of freeport (or quenos)... exiles are citizens of nothing.  There are 2 factions and the people in the middle, the advantage of being in the middle is you can attack anyone and have any class... what is the advangate of being a citizen? its called gear.</span> </span></li><li>FFA PvP would be awesome - people think it would be a gank fest but thats just not true .. Guilds would be the 'factions' and going off ganking lowbies of a powerfull guild for no rewards or griefing would provoke a angry reaction from that guild so there would be alot more balance than there currently is with the cities where 1 is always more powerful than the other. With guild alliances , guild wars etc etc it would be fun for RP and non RP alike. For every person who quit because of FFA PvP there would be many people returing or starting new to check it out .. Vanguard is a terrible game but the ruleset on FFA PvP is very nice and has attracted alot of the hardcore and skilled PvPers (as well as the dross like Gilgame and Fingerzz)</li><li>I'm sorry but PvP gear is p!ss easy to get in the current form! If you get a decent group together of guildies etc regardless of class you will farm tokens for fun<span style="color: #0000ff">e<span style="color: #00ff00">verything i do in game is for fun fyi</span></span> .. if you wanted to solo stuff pvp or pve you should have picked a solo friendly class , if FP is too tough for you atm go to Qeynos(don' bother with exile you'll /cry irl after about 10 mins) .. harsh but true<span style="color: #0000ff"> i<span style="color: #99ff33">f you are in a group of firends and farming tokens it takes a bit more than you think, probably about 30% of all kills generate a token and the average token drop is 1.5 tokens. So for everyone in the group to get 1 token the group would have to kill 12ish UNIQUE PLAYERS.  Nobody on recent counts fyi.  So for a full group to get 15 tokens (my personal daily best) then the group would have to kill 180 people that were not on their recent list.  Solo friendly classes with track and huge dps can get 10-20 tokens a day but that is the problem with imbalance not the token system. As a decent soloer without track i normally get 2 to 3 tokens per hour if there are people to solo. A full set of gear takes 1200 so that is about 400 hours of played for a full set.  Scouts with high dps can shave that down quite a bit, but i would say that is a class issue, tokens are no trade so dont say tokens are easy to get, say tokens are easy to get for brig/swash/assasin/ranger. </span></span><span style="color: #99ff33"> </span> </li></ul></blockquote>

Greenion
02-15-2007, 11:43 AM
<p><span style="color: #339900">maybe exile pvp gear could be nonfactional...woven out of tokens.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">actually my suggestion for exile pvp gear isnt that exiles should get the gear that the city factions get, that isnt what im suggesting.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">as far as quality, i think any exile gear if ever implemented should basicly be better than mastercrafted but not as good as raid gotten gear within the same tier...</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">the exile faction though meant to be a more pronounced pvp niche is advantaged toward raid pve as far as cross faction class group/raid structure...and disadvantaged toward pvp moreso as you go lower in tier in relation to max level.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">so id suggest if they are to consider it, that exile pvp gear items within a tier should be of less quality than city factioned pvp items as well as raid gotten items within each tier.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">this has been my opinion all along really, most of the time i simply say i think exiles should get pvp gear and dont specify the rest.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">i also think there should be ways fpr characters in teamed factions tp counteract their disadvantages in pve raiding resulting from being class limited in group/raid structure.</span></p>

Eluzay
02-15-2007, 01:30 PM
<cite>Greenion wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><span style="color: #339900">maybe exile pvp gear could be nonfactional...woven out of tokens.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">actually my suggestion for exile pvp gear isnt that exiles should get the gear that the city factions get, that isnt what im suggesting.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">as far as quality, i think any exile gear if ever implemented should basicly be better than mastercrafted but not as good as raid gotten gear within the same tier...</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">the exile faction though meant to be a more pronounced pvp niche is advantaged toward raid pve as far as cross faction class group/raid structure...and disadvantaged toward pvp moreso as you go lower in tier in relation to max level.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">so id suggest if they are to consider it, that exile pvp gear items within a tier should be of less quality than city factioned pvp items as well as raid gotten items within each tier.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">this has been my opinion all along really, most of the time i simply say i think exiles should get pvp gear and dont specify the rest.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">i also think there should be ways fpr characters in teamed factions tp counteract their disadvantages in pve raiding resulting from being class limited in group/raid structure.</span></p></blockquote> *read: i want the exile faction gear to be better than what i have and less good than 90% of the exiles out there... gimme gimme gimme* want pvp gear? join a faction.

Ultimatum
02-15-2007, 02:35 PM
<cite>Greenion wrote:</cite><blockquote><span style="color: #336600">endgamers arent the only people playing the game....</span><p><span style="color: #336600">you exiled at or near max level...with a large guild, because of this you dont need pvp gear.</span></p><p><span style="color: #336600">and because of this you want the claymore line of quests.</span></p><p><span style="color: #336600">if faction is the reason for negating the former, it surely is the same reason negating the latter.</span></p></blockquote>I don't recal saying they were.  I actually exiled around lvl 50, and my guild was only made up of roughly 10-12 people at the time we exiled if I recall correctly.  A lot of us lost 4+ pieces of PvP gear, but imo that gear isn't gamebreaking, and while it would certainly help in raiding being able to get easy raid quality fabled items, it is not neccissary.  Your argument holds no water as far as I'm concerned though as when a player exiles, he or she loses the ability to equip any and all pvp faction gear, yet are still able to equip any of the rewards from the claymore line including the final rewards.  Kinda lame imo to exclude an entire faction from doing the big "epic" questline in the new expansion.  We can still do Prismatic and Godking quests, why not the Claymore ones?  Either allow us to complete the quest, or change all of the rewards to be faction based as well so Exiles can't use them either. 

Greenion
02-15-2007, 03:16 PM
<p><span style="color: #339900">so the teams want all classes avail;able for raids...and the endtgame exile want access to faction based quests...</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">and the exiles who actually exile in t2 and work their way up pvping want a chance to get some pvp gear...</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">the teams dont want anyone else to get what they want and are at the same time blocking themselves from getting what they want because of it.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">the endgame raiding exiles basicly are the same way...</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">and the solo exile that actually deals with the real downside of being an exile...the lack of level differential anywhere at low level...takes time out to think of ways all these groups could earn what they want ingame.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">so the other two groups of course siply block thsese ideas although those ideas also contain the things they themselves want...beautiful.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">so...the game stagnates...great.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">/goes back to crafting.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">roflz it aint like i need the gear anyway, pffftz, itd just give me something to shoot for, id still have to mastercraft sets of gear for a toon to be able to win enough at pvp to get the gear anyways lol.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">you folks have fun.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">edit> games are part dogma, part imagination...as well, the space betwixt the two.</span></p>

Ultimatum
02-15-2007, 05:28 PM
<cite>Greenion wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><span style="color: #339900">so the teams want all classes avail;able for raids...and the endtgame exile want access to faction based quests...</span></p></blockquote>IMO these shouldn't even BE faction based...As I said before, one can complete the quest in its entirety and then exile and still use the quest rewards...yet someone who exiles first can't even initiate the quest?  I'm saying either make them COMPLETELY faction based to where exiles can't even use the rewards (in which case I wouldn't care that I couldn't do the quest because I couldn't use the items anyway) or allow exiles to be able to start and progress the quest while exiled. I don't want nor do I have need for any PvP gear...anyone who is exiled and complains that there is no PvP gear should just go back to one of the cities IMO as that is a valid counterbalance to being able to group with opposing classes and being able to kill everyone.  Eliminating progression of the Claymore line, while still allowing us to wear the rewards, however, is unfair as far as I'm concerned.  Just my 2cp

Eluzay
02-15-2007, 05:55 PM
<cite>Ultimatum wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Greenion wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><span style="color: #339900">so the teams want all classes avail;able for raids...and the endtgame exile want access to faction based quests...</span></p></blockquote>IMO these shouldn't even BE faction based...As I said before, one can complete the quest in its entirety and then exile and still use the quest rewards...yet someone who exiles first can't even initiate the quest?  I'm saying either make them COMPLETELY faction based to where exiles can't even use the rewards (in which case I wouldn't care that I couldn't do the quest because I couldn't use the items anyway) or allow exiles to be able to start and progress the quest while exiled. I don't want nor do I have need for any PvP gear...anyone who is exiled and complains that there is no PvP gear should just go back to one of the cities IMO as that is a valid counterbalance to being able to group with opposing classes and being able to kill everyone.  Eliminating progression of the Claymore line, while still allowing us to wear the rewards, however, is unfair as far as I'm concerned.  Just my 2cp </blockquote> qfe <3

Greenion
02-15-2007, 06:29 PM
<p><span style="color: #339900">well maybe they'll give you both what you want.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">itd be nice to have something to strive for is why id like to see exiles get the gear.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">teams can get all classes and basicly ruin the premise of the backstory on pvp servers as well as they've done on pve already...</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">and the claymore line of quests...you see exiles dont have an ingame leader to send you after it...kinda the same reason we dont get status or faction with that same ingame leader toward getting pvp gear.</span></p>

Eluzay
02-15-2007, 07:01 PM
<cite>Greenion wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><span style="color: #339900">well maybe they'll give you both what you want.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">itd be nice to have something to strive for is why id like to see exiles get the gear.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">teams can get all classes and basicly ruin the premise of the backstory on pvp servers as well as they've done on pve already...</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">and the claymore line of quests...you see exiles dont have an ingame leader to send you after it...kinda the same reason we dont get status or faction with that same ingame leader toward getting pvp gear.</span></p></blockquote>have you ever done claymore?

Greenion
02-15-2007, 08:03 PM
<p><span style="color: #339900">nope.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">why would it matter, i know what it symbolizes.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">this claymore right...</span></p><p><img src="http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h18/Greenion/1havencelebs4.jpg" border="0"></p><p><span style="color: #339900">just like there is a reason that exiles dont get pvp gear, there is a reason they cant do the clymore line of quests.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">me, i dont care if they allow it or not personally. it doesnt effect me, i'll never be able to do the quest because i dont have a guild to help me with it...i only have a single character thatd use such a thing anyway...and if i want to do it all i have to do is join fp find a guild do the quest and re-exile anyway.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">of course id have to redo a few skills doing so...but i craft my own...did i mention that...</span></p>

Ultimatum
02-15-2007, 10:45 PM
you DO realize that that isn't the only reward, correct?

Greenion
02-15-2007, 11:03 PM
<p><span style="color: #339900">i realize that the quest is given by the ruler of either city, or rather on their behalf.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">exiles have no ruler...i wrote a longish article about what i thought of the interfactionality within the exile faction, you probably didnt read it...</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">at this point its simple...no ingame leader, no one to quest for the claymore for.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">that was put out by developers.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">the funny thing about the article is i spent quite a bit of time and effort thinking of ways for the teamed raid guilds to be able to counter their raid structure disadvantages...i also thought quite alot about what an exile guild really meant ingame...also, was thinking about how the teamed factions could be somewhat pvp enabled toward each other...as well came up with a rather detailed subsystem to more fairly award fame etc for pvp kills based on situational criteria...as well alot of ideas about pvp rewards for teams and exiles that arent even gear...</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">lol, but no one read past the first two paragraphs.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">anyways...i dont need pvp gear, like i said, itd give me something to shoot for is all, a reason beynd just looking for random kills...but i can just look for random kills no problem...roflz.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">you dont need the claymore line either, you want it just like i want pvp gear, or rather, more than the gear, id like something to motivate and give direction to pvp gameplay, anyway...neither of us need either thing to play the game...</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">so, why are we still here then, see ya.</span></p>

Eluzay
02-16-2007, 12:04 PM
<cite>Greenion wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><span style="color: #339900">nope.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">why would it matter, i know what it symbolizes.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">this claymore right...</span></p><p><img src="http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h18/Greenion/1havencelebs4.jpg" border="0"></p><p><span style="color: #339900">just like there is a reason that exiles dont get pvp gear, there is a reason they cant do the clymore line of quests.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">me, i dont care if they allow it or not personally. it doesnt effect me, i'll never be able to do the quest because i dont have a guild to help me with it...i only have a single character thatd use such a thing anyway...and if i want to do it all i have to do is join fp find a guild do the quest and re-exile anyway.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">of course id have to redo a few skills doing so...but i craft my own...did i mention that...</span></p></blockquote>well just a tad of ignorance on your part not having done them, both sides go to the same guys for the claymore weapon so it really is not something that is q only or fp only... every faction based item/vendor/quest has its own unique npc for each side and yes we all know you roll in mastercrafted gear, it is one of the ways we know you still have some things to learn about pvp in eq2

Greenion
02-16-2007, 12:40 PM
<p><span style="color: #339900">roflz.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">flame on dood...it shows your massive [Removed for Content] and piddly level of maturity.</span></p>

Greggthegrmreapr
02-16-2007, 12:51 PM
when Exile was first introduced to PvP, the Devs said it was supposed to be difficult.  as it stands now,  I don't see anything other than not being allowed PvP gear.  Loss of Adept 3's and masters should happen as soon as you exile.  And we should be allowed to enter haven.  As it stands, there are some exiles who won't venture to far from the haven zone because we can't chase them in there.

Greenion
02-16-2007, 12:56 PM
<p><span style="color: #339900">well if you exile at or near lvl 70 there isnt much added difficulty.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">exile in T2 and there is quite alot of added difficulty as far as having no level differentiation anywhere.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">im not complaining about it, but, in lower tiers it is alot more difficult (which is why there are so few exiles in lower tiers) and 95% of exiles exiled in T7, to bypass this difficulty and gain all class structuring in raids.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">not all of us have large groups or guilds, some of us solo, and in lower tiers being an exile is very hard, the lower the tier, the harder it is actually, pvpwise.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">btw in the article i wrote there was a portion or supposed to be a portion (maybe i didnt finish that bit) about criteria for teamed players to enter haven...it involved a few new zones, as well as some specialized engagement rules within haven proper.</span></p>

firedawg9
02-18-2007, 04:27 AM
<p>I personally think the pvp gear needs to be nerfed.  In alot of cases the pvp gear is better than the class specific raid gear and its much easier to get.  Pvp gear was a cop out to sony in my opinion.  They are taking the WoW approach and handing out top notch gear without people having to earn it legitamately.  Pvp gear should not be better than mob dropped fable gear.</p><p>If Exiles are aloud to build faction up to use merchants and be non aggro to guards in the cities they should also be able to buy pvp gear too and finish Claymore.  Exile is a third faction period.  If it wasnt you wouldnt have all the arrangments and the abilities to have guilds in it.  </p><p> My guild exiled due to boredome from lack of targets.  We figured the pvp gear was not worth the boredom of being aligned with people we frankly wanted to kill.  The FFA atmosphere exile offers is everything we hoped for.  It is also fun being the villians of the server since everyone for the most part seems to dispise Exiles more than the opposite faction.  </p><p>My solution though to get people out of Exile:  Offer each side all classes with the ability to switch back and forth without penalty of losing spells as long as you dont change classes.  I think its ridiculous that you lose your spells if you dont change classes.  Even from the roleplayers perspective it makes no sense.  So if you switch from one side as a warden and stay a warden, you mean to tell me your guy forgot how to be a warden by changing cities.  </p>

Cocytus
02-18-2007, 08:44 AM
<p>I sort of agree with you, Greenion.</p><p>SOE needs to make up its mind. Make Exiles a third faction with their own city/guild/pvp merchants, or require exiling to be transitory.</p><p>Tired of this halfassed stuff.</p>

Greenion
02-18-2007, 02:01 PM
<cite>firedawg911 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I personally think the pvp gear needs to be nerfed.  In alot of cases the pvp gear is better than the class specific raid gear and its much easier to get.  Pvp gear was a cop out to sony in my opinion.  They are taking the WoW approach and handing out top notch gear without people having to earn it legitamately.  Pvp gear should not be better than mob dropped fable gear.</p><p><span style="color: #339900">i disagree with this, i see the pvp system as being the first thing on these servers not a secondary system to pve, pvp is the definig factor in the speciality of these server's ruleset, and therefor items earned from pvp accomplishments should be imo the of the best quality within a tier...there should be some exceptions however, as some epic type pve mobs are of a greater order of creature in the world than the chars we fight against to earnt eh pvp gear...this should be a very limited set of things however...</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">my point is that pvp should be the focus of teh ruleset, and the gear gotten from it should reflect this focus...the rest of teh environment should make plausable sense in relation to pvp...and the rewards also should reflect this sense of plausability.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">one of the problems with pvp gear imo is that status is what is spent, and status is gotten from pve sources. a level of faction s required but...you can never lose any faction...which is a problem imo...either differentiate btwn pve and pvp status and require pvp status be spent on pvp items, or incur a loss of pvp faction upon death due to pvp.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">as it stands once a city aligned player accrues enough pvp faction, they can just farm status by doing pve...and get pvp gear.</span></p><p>If Exiles are aloud to build faction up to use merchants and be non aggro to guards in the cities they should also be able to buy pvp gear too and finish Claymore.  Exile is a third faction period.  If it wasnt you wouldnt have all the arrangments and the abilities to have guilds in it.</p><p><span style="color: #339900">i dont think exiles should be buying pvp gear from city sources, nor should be using the same items as the city aligned chars get for pvp. i think if they do ever get pvp rewards they should be exile specific ones gotten from exile specific sources...</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">there should be crteria surrounding the way exiles earn such that is different from the city factions.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">one way ive suggested is that exiles collect tokens and when they have enough tokens in a tier can somehow produce an item out of it...it could involve alot more steps and difficulty than ive said here of course...beyond the difficulty of pvping for the tokens.</span></p><p> My guild exiled due to boredome from lack of targets.  We figured the pvp gear was not worth the boredom of being aligned with people we frankly wanted to kill.  The FFA atmosphere exile offers is everything we hoped for.  It is also fun being the villians of the server since everyone for the most part seems to dispise Exiles more than the opposite faction.  </p><p><span style="color: #339900">it is fun, roflz. we never lack for attention from our opposing pvprs.</span></p><p>My solution though to get people out of Exile:  Offer each side all classes with the ability to switch back and forth without penalty of losing spells as long as you dont change classes.  I think its ridiculous that you lose your spells if you dont change classes.  Even from the roleplayers perspective it makes no sense.  So if you switch from one side as a warden and stay a warden, you mean to tell me your guy forgot how to be a warden by changing cities.  </p><p><span style="color: #339900">all classes in both cities is a bad idea imo, i think they should offer some opposing aligned class skills that can only be used while in a raid against pve targets as pvp rewards...meaning that a swashie can gain some key brigand skills for use in pve raiding by buying it as a pvp reward...this would in effect offer all skills to both sides, while at the same time keeping the sanctity of the story line...it would also induce another reason for people to be involved in pvp...something else to earn from it...</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">i think that skills should set to apprentice 1 when you are exiled from a city, not when you join the opposing one...</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">in essense this symbolizes a character being stripped of what they own...</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">a mage for example has research notes, a spellbook per se...as they exile qs for example the soldiers eschewing them out basicly ruin anything they have lying around...they do not get to take their notes etc that give them that extra enlightenment toward their higher level versions of their arts...whether combat or magix.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900">imo a possible better way to do this would be having all skills drop three ranks upon being exiled, and drop to all apprentice 1 if a character actually changes classes.</span></p></blockquote>