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View Full Version : Thoughts on Buff system


Sebastien
04-19-2005, 10:48 AM
<div></div>I have a lot of general ideas I would like to discuss with other testers, eventually, but I will try to pace myself. =) This one, however, seems apropos to the topic of the current combat changes.  As I said on the combat thread, I personally view stat caps as a quick-fix, rather than healthy long-term solution.  The real solution would be to look at the buffs players are using, and the way in which they interact with eachother. This brings us to the topic of my post: stacking. My fury mate and I did some experimenting one night with the way our buffs stacked (I play an Inquisitor main).  The results were very confusing and unpredictable to us.  Sometimes, buffs sharing the same icon was an indicator that those two buffs would not stack.  Other times, this rule did not hold true.  Some AC buffs could be stacked; others could not.  Some buffs would not stack one component (such as AC), but other effects (such as a STA buff from one and an AGI buff from the other) would all remain in effect. The end result of our testing was confusion.  There seemed to be no way to know what effects, from which buffs, would stack, in any given situation. My suggestion to the devs is to look at the way buffs interact with eachother. Players need visual cues on this as well.  Perhaps the icon could change visually in the maintained bar, if it were being overruled by another buff, or offer other visual cues if there were overlap (ie, part of the buff has been overridden but part of it remains).  Since the game engine already needs to sort these things out, I assume that creating some sort of visual cue on what's happening is not out of the question. Going through these interactions would also present a good opportunity to solve the avoidance spiking problem without resorting to caps.  Instead simply look at the way the buffs stack / don't stack. For example (just pulling this out of the air), if we are worried that people are stacking a troub song and a priest buff and a guardian buff to get the avoidance too high, rather then leaving everything as is, but capping it out (which takes away from the fun and sense of importance that comes from speccing a group), change the stacking rules.  If troubs feel they are rendered useless by not letting the buffs stack, then split the buffs into a stackable and nonstackable component.  For instance, their concentration song could provide a smaller benefit than it currently does, but would always stack with anything (a traditional hallmark of bards).  To compensate, they would be giving a seperate buff that is cast-and-forget, also buffs avoidance, but would not stack with other classes' buffs. In this way, a bard in a small party would still be able to offer their maximum utility.  A bard in a full party might be able to do so, depending upon who else is in the party.  But at the very least, they could always provide that edge to avoidance, even if other avoidance buffs were available. Personally I would strongly prefer that kind of ruleset to one with unpredictable stacking, and stat caps.  And gosh I hope this post makes sense (sleepy here). =) <div></div><p>Message Edited by Sebastien on <span class=date_text>04-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:49 PM</span>

Proudfoot
04-20-2005, 07:09 AM
One thing to keep in mind with buff stacking is to make sure the stats/skills/abilities are actually changing from all buffs. I've noticed alot of buffs 'stack' according to icons and such but don't actually do anything. Example: Nettleshield (Druid level 10) implies that it stacks with Briarshield (Fury levell 24) because you can put both on at the same time. However, the effect of the last one casts is the only one that 'works', even though you have both icons on. Example2: Regrowth (Druid level 12) icon stacks with Verdant Regrowth (Fury level 26). They don't really stack although you can put both on at the same time. ( You only get one of them to tick ) I've wondered about alot of buffs like that. <div></div>

LadyEternity
04-20-2005, 09:37 AM
<P>Yes, and it's gotten me to wonder about my Necromancer pet buffs too. Are they both working? Or is it just the higher buff?</P> <P> </P> <P>Lady E</P>

Sebastien
04-20-2005, 11:12 AM
That's definitely part of my feedback here. Sometimes, only the "higher" form works.  Sometimes both work.  Sometimes parts of each work.  Sometimes same icon = does not stack.  Sometimes same icon = doesn't mean anything in particular. <div></div>