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View Full Version : Question: When to announce the dungeon changes?


Proudfoot
04-15-2005, 11:49 AM
I'm curious but when was SOE planning on mentioning the changes to the dungeons? They've been tiered as well now. Case study: Vermins Snye - Initial entrance scorpions, bats, and rats are now solo, no longer double up group Crypt of Betrayel - Zone in low end has all solo bats, bugs, and zombies. The minos are also solo now, as well as the straggler bloodsabers.   - Case of point though, you have to get through the double up group mobs in the Vermins Snye to get to Crypt, yet solos are entrance of Crypt?   - Named mobs are still double up group, and hurt alot Stormhold - Entryway slimes, skeletons are solo now. Further in most are non arrowed heroic small pairs/groups. Wondering if these changes were due for an announcement, or are they not supposed to be this way? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

Miral
04-15-2005, 12:42 PM
pretty sure its a screw up, since dungeons were pretty much dubbed group territory just last week.

LadyEternity
04-15-2005, 08:39 PM
<DIV>After seeing the Crypt of Betrayel last night, I ran Blacksabath out to Stormhold to investigate. Indeed quite a bit has become solo, or turned into two linked mobs (no arrows).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Personally I think this is great, but I doubt many of the more group oriented players will like it. So I am going to purpose a choice.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Instead of mixing the content (yes I realize it's there to 'encourage' grouping) make seperate versions. One for solo/duo/small group and leave the one (unadjusted) for heroic. Do not make 'instances' for each party. Instead have one static instance for Heroic and one for Non-heroic. Parties 3+ people cannot enter the non-heroic instance grouped together, and if your group goes above the 3+ people mark while in the dungeon, the entire group is teleported out of the dungeon with a reminder to seek the heroic version instead. This will keep the risk vs reward in balance. As for loot drops and whatnot, the way I see it if the risk is the same challenge wise nothing should need to be adjusted.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Perhaps a 'teleport to group' function could be implimented to make finding group members easier. If the dungeons were set up like this it would provide engaging and challenging content for all types of players without decreasing the challenge rating for any of them just to satisfy the needs of another playstyle. The continuity of the dungeon atmpshere would be maintained, and overall the flavor of the area. Furthermore, you won't have to worry about one playstyle feeling like they got shafted, because they are religated to killing hall trash. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lady Eternity</DIV>

Daffid011
04-15-2005, 09:41 PM
Good catch!  I knew something wasn't right, but couldn't put a finger. <div></div>

C
04-16-2005, 12:16 AM
<P>Looks like a note on this missed the update message.  The entry areas for most dungeons have been downtiered two tiers to give more dungeon areras to small groups.  In a few cases (Wailing Caves and Blackburrow), significantly more of the dungeon was downtiered.  Dungeons are still mainly for groups, but we wanted to make sure we didn't create an overland-to-dungeon wall of difficulty.</P> <P>Please write-up your feedback on the dungeon changes.  We're especially interested in specific feedback on specific dungeons.</P>

Proudfoot
04-16-2005, 01:33 AM
<span><blockquote><hr>Cao wrote:<p>Looks like a note on this missed the update message.  The entry areas for most dungeons have been downtiered two tiers to give more dungeon areras to small groups.  In a few cases (Wailing Caves and Blackburrow), significantly more of the dungeon was downtiered.  Dungeons are still mainly for groups, but we wanted to make sure we didn't create an overland-to-dungeon wall of difficulty.</p> <p>Please write-up your feedback on the dungeon changes.  We're especially interested in specific feedback on specific dungeons.</p> <div></div><hr></blockquote>Aha! There's the answer Watson. Crypt of Betrayl:  - In order to get to the Crypt you MUST pass through the double-up arrowed Bloodsabers in Vermins Snye. I think that speaks for itself. The Crypt may not need to be tiered at all considering its the 3rd floor down of a dungeon area (Down Below/Vermins Snye/Crypt) Blackburrow:  - Seemed ok. The entire courtyard area is now solo. The mine shaft as well. The inside area from the waterfall bridge on was all group as usual. Seemed like a good balance. Mine area = solo, deep cave = group. </span><div></div>

yaen
04-16-2005, 03:02 AM
<DIV>should the solo mobs be changed to non-KoS, to allow the groups to go by freely without having to kill them (like the ridge rats at the entrance of Blackburrow)?</DIV> <DIV>i guess it might make solo'ing the dungeon entrances easier if there were no KoS mobs at the zone-ins, but at least that way the groups that are entering won't have to kill all the solo content just to pass through into the group areas</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>maybe if they are social mobs then making them non-KoS will still be a challenge for the solo'ers</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>just a thought</DIV>

Eelyen
04-17-2005, 11:28 AM
<P>I think dungeons should stay hard.  A ton of outdoor content is already solo to small group.  Now my group is already in the mid 40s so this really doesn't effect us.  But there should be the area for larger groups to have their nitch.  As you remove more and more group content, less and less stuff is availabe for large groups.</P> <P>To be frank if you want this game to be a challenge.  Instead of completely obliterating the combat engine, stop bumping down content <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

Silverdrop
04-21-2005, 11:26 AM
As for the crypt of betrayal and having to go through the bloodsabers first: The level difference between the between the mobs at the entrance of the crypt of betrayal and those bloodsabers is such that if as a solo/duo you can handle the entrance mobs as they are now at the crypt of betrayal you should also pretty much be able to handle (if it's not grey content) the bloodsabers. <div></div>

bcbroom
04-21-2005, 01:02 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Eelyen wrote:<BR> <P>I think dungeons should stay hard.  A ton of outdoor content is already solo to small group. </P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Bingo.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Even smaller groups could fight blue and some white ^^ heroics. The entrance idea and some of the quest area make sense for this, so soloers have access to some of the quest mobs, but it is becoming hard to find heroics to fight.</DIV>

Sebastien
04-21-2005, 11:31 PM
A group of us mentored down (on Live) to help some level 22's in our guild to work on their AQ series in Nek Forest. I just want to provide the kind of feedback that I heard form my guildmates over teamspeak during our trip: (mage got aggro) "Don't worry Sera, this is the Disney version of Nek now.. nothing can kill you."  (mage tanked the fight without any trouble..) (upon fighting a group of Ashland Wisps)"Oh, now, see.. that's just wrong.  I used to be afraid of these things.  They were part of this place. " (someone else chimed in)"Do you know how many times I died to those things?"  (she used a meaner word than "things") On conclusion of spending about an hour in the zone, wandering around, I heard: "I hate this zone now.  What a joke." "I got 2 and a half %"  (that person was being mentored by three others btw to try to help her catch up). So, yah, that's the impressions of a full group of level 22's trying to wander through Nek.  I really wish you guys would use the single up heroic mobs more.  Ashland wisps for sure should be scary things.  Nobody exp'd off those anyway.. but they gave the forest character because they were HARD.  You treated them like a hazard, which was cool. The single up heroic mob is accessible to duos, trios, even soloists who want a challenge, but they are also at least entertaining for full groups. But instead of easing back on the down-tiering, you pushed it into the dungeons now also. I don't disagree with the idea of making the entrance of the dungeon more small-group friendly.  But in the context of these changes, it sounds like you are saying you don't want to ever "see" groups again (they should only be able to thrive in the deepest parts of dungeons). I think it's counter productive for you to take so much of your content and make it inaccessible for groups.  From the point of view of someone who plays in groups often, the gameworld has gotten tremendously smaller to me. <div></div>

Proudfoot
04-22-2005, 06:01 AM
<span><blockquote><hr>Sebastien wrote:So, yah, that's the impressions of a full group of level 22's trying to wander through Nek. <div></div><hr></blockquote>Its quantity, not quality that SOE is looking at. How <i>often </i>did full groups go and "fight" in Nek prior to overland changes? See, its that "often" that will get you. Just because you guys loaded up a group and picked Nek doesn't mean SOE did something wrong. How many groups?</span><div></div>