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C
03-01-2005, 03:49 AM
<DIV>First off, thanks for all the feedback on mentoring.  Please consolidate your feedback on mentoring here.  Besides the bugs you've already found, we're interested in a few key topics:</DIV> <UL> <LI>Ease of Use:  How easy is it to use mentoring and what could be done to improve the use?</LI> <LI>XP Gain:  What sort of xp gain are you seeing versus fighting at your normal level?  We want to make sure to reward you for mentoring, but we don't want to detract from doing content at your actual level.</LI> <LI>Issues:  All of the bugs and oddities you've found while using the system.</LI></UL> <P>Here are the issues we're currently aware of:</P> <UL> <LI>Maintained Spells:  Buffs/pets that are too high for your mentor level will be removed. <LI>Health/Power Updates:  When you mentor and un-mentor, you will keep the same health/power amounts (instead of instantly regenerating). <LI>Mentor Amounts:  Right now, the percent of xp you earn as a mentor is in flux.  Expect it to change to keep challenge and reward intact.  It should generally follow the below structure (but that may change with further testing). <UL> <LI>Level 8 or below:  No mentoring xp (not enough challenge) <LI>Low teens:  little mentoring xp <LI>High teens:  low mentoring xp <LI>Low twenties:  scaling up to moderate mentoring xp <LI>Past 25:  max mentoring xp</LI></UL></LI></UL> <P>The reasons I didn't use explicit values is that we're still tweaking the numbers quite a bit to get it right.  We'll look into the other topics mentioned here (including overpowering mentors and regen rates).</P> <P>Please keep the feedback coming!</P>

Kwoung
03-01-2005, 05:02 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cao wrote:<BR> <UL> <LI>Ease of Use:  How easy is it to use mentoring and what could be done to improve the use?</LI></UL> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Amazingly easy to use, the only thing I can think of is adding LFG functionality to allow for players that are looking to / be mentored to find each other easilly. Or maybe, add a toggle to LFG so when someone does it by level (ie: /lfg 20 26), those willing to drop their level to fit, will also show up on the list.</DIV>

Ultatra
03-01-2005, 09:37 AM
<DIV>First off, great idea!  Really enjoy it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A couple bugs I have noticed is that when I stop mentoring, I usually get a skill up.  For Necessity (34 Inquisitor) it was trapping for Ultatra (lvl 31 Defiler) it was mining.  I had others in group test it, but they didn't get the same effect.  Eachtime I would stop mentoring, I would get a skill up on the character which had been doing the mentoring.  Have also noticed that while the skills are red, if you have armor/weapons equiped unless you unequip them, you can still use items which aren't of level to use.  Other than that, haven't tested enough, but will provide more feedback as we test.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks again!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Nec</DIV>

HanktheDwarf
03-01-2005, 12:30 PM
XP wise. I mentored down from 22 to 18 and fought rotstuffed scarecrows. Got ~1% per fight. Then when I was my normal level, I was getting ~1% xp per fight. So pretty much, without the 25% penalty, I would have been getting more by mentoring than by not. My opinion that you should get a little less xp mentoring someone.

Rondari
03-01-2005, 07:02 PM
<DIV>I mentored for the first time last night (from 30 down to 27) so that a few more of the mobs would provide XP for the group.  It was easy to use and seemed fine.  The only feedback I have is:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bug?:  When I mini-ding (20% marks) I don't get any defensive skill ups until I stop mentoring.  I know my effective skills are maxed at the mentor level (27 in this case) but it would be nice if the underlying defensive skills kept going up while mentoring.  I can see some people mentoring quite a bit and their defensive skills would tend to fall behind.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Icons: The hot-buttons that can not beused (too low to use them) should be clearly marked (e.g. Red X).  It seemed when I would accidently tap one of the skills that I should not have had at 27, it went into a permanent queue state (flashing yellow border).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>XP:  I was at max XP gain for mentoring (I guess) at 25% penalty.  It still seemed a tad slow for only going down to 27 from 30.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Rondari <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Eelyen
03-01-2005, 07:10 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kwoung wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cao wrote:<BR> <UL> <LI>Ease of Use:  How easy is it to use mentoring and what could be done to improve the use?</LI></UL> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Amazingly easy to use, the only thing I can think of is adding LFG functionality to allow for players that are looking to / be mentored to find each other easilly. Or maybe, add a toggle to LFG so when someone does it by level (ie: /lfg 20 26), those willing to drop their level to fit, will also show up on the list.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I have to agree with Kwoung here.  It's amazing easy to use.  It's great.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The LFG function should be improved to be more like EQ1's version. Where there was a whole LFG search function and the ability for groups to advertise they were looking for members.  To where you can search both versions via a nice interface window.  The current one isn't any different then doing /w all LFG</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, I think there was once instance of a bug i've seen.  It may be repeatable.  We haven't really tried to test it more.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But the other day we had Badkore who is level 49 grouped with us.  Myself and the Templar (Klunky) who were level 30 at the time was with him.  And he had mentored down to 30 on Klunky.  Well a green mob spawned and I engaged it but Badkore was about to drop group as we were adjusting with another guild to do a heritage fight.  And he dropped mentor after I engaged cause I think klunky hadn't engaged.  And the mob still stayed green to me.  And he was able to engage it at level 49 as he conned red to me.  Didn't really provide us with an advantage in that particular fight as it was easy anyways.  But could be potentially abused. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This was just from personal observation.  I'll try to repeat it tonight if I can.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Eelyen on <span class=date_text>03-01-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:13 AM</span>

Kwoung
03-01-2005, 10:48 PM
<DIV>Issues:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <OL> <LI>The mentoree does not seem to have to be in range, or the same zone even it appears, for the mentor to maintain the lower level.<BR></LI> <LI>Can not get city writs of the lower level when mentoring. the writ giver told me I had outgrown them. Not sure this would be a good thing though due to being exploitable.<BR></LI> <LI>XP is WAY to much when mentoring. A 25-50% reduction is what it says, but the fact of the matter is, even with that I gain XP 3x as fast mentoring a low teens as I do when hunting mobs my own level (33). Along those lines, I saw a couple folks mentored down to 11 killing scarecrows in Ant outside the gate last night. The mentoree was no where in sight ( see point 1) and to my knowledge, the last time I saw those players a couple days ago they were in their high 20's I believe.. they were now 36 and climbing. That is WAY to much XP. My wife tested this as well mentoring down in Oakmyst with our daughters low teen character.. my wife was getting 1% per kill and my daughter getting 5% or more. It took a little more than an hour for her to go from 33.0 to 33.5.<BR></LI> <LI>Mentorees can turn off experience. Which from what I was told, the above mentioned players, while gaining levels in their 30's like mad, have been grouped with the same level 11 for days. I suggest that if the mentoree is out of range or has XP disabled, that mentoring of that character be disabled.</LI> <LI>Discovery XP. I was very surprised to see that when I went to Oakmyst last night and mentored down, that I gained HUGE XP from discoving a coule spots there. This seems rather exploitable, as I considered running around Qeynos and hitting all the discovery spots for a quick level.</LI></OL><p>Message Edited by Kwoung on <span class=date_text>03-01-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:51 AM</span>

Yokozuna
03-02-2005, 07:11 PM
<DIV>Mentoring is amazing - except for a few bugs i wouldn't change a thing about it.</DIV> <DIV>I was getting really bored playing this game but with the new exp changes and </DIV> <DIV>mentoring i'm playing way more and having fun again !</DIV>

Kwoung
03-02-2005, 09:41 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Yokozuna wrote:<BR> <DIV>Mentoring is amazing - except for a few bugs i wouldn't change a thing about it.</DIV> <DIV>I was getting really bored playing this game but with the new exp changes and </DIV> <DIV>mentoring i'm playing way more and having fun again !</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>As for the XP and mentoring... it is better XP... by far... than hunting at your own level. While fun for a bit, I don't think leveling to 50 in Oakmyst or outside the front gate on Qeynos would be very fun. But, as demonstrated by the folks thaty have been doing it for 3 days straight, people will if that is the best way to gain XP.. and they will miss everything the game had to offer along the way, get bored and quit... their only accomplishment being leveling to 50 overnight (so to speak).</P> <P>Also should be addressed, it is very easy to afk macro in newbie areas, because the mobs are plentiful and pop fast. Even if the xp was lowered and wasn't quite as good as regular hunting, you will see the macroers in the low level zones 24x7 wiping out spawns over and over.. just like it was in SWG (where you could reach Master level in combat skills while afk in noobie zones)... Unless of course, steps are taken prior to implementation to combat that. Currently, because you can turn of the mentoree's XP or have him out of XP range, you could effectively gain as many levels as you need without a single break other than server downs. Really, the only way to keep this from happening is to insure that the mentoree has to be earning XP for the mentor to get XP, that way they will continue to level and outgrow those newbie areas very quickly.. making macroing in one spot unrewarding.</P>

Rondari
03-02-2005, 10:16 PM
<DIV>I agree with you 100% Kwoung.  The mentoree must have XP enabled and be within XP range of the Mentor before the Mentor can get XP at all.  Although I said above that XP seemed a little slow to me - I have had some further experience with Mentoring and fell that a downward tweak in the XP gained for the Mentor would be appropriate.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Rondari</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Lancealittle
03-02-2005, 10:45 PM
<DIV>I think any xp gains by the mentor should be very minimal to avoid making this an 'easy mode' for leveling.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The best way to do this is to have the xps gained not be the same xps you gain at the higher level minus 25%. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It should be the xps the mob you are killing is worth. That way if you mentor down a few levels you are making ok xps, but if you mentor down 10 levels you're not gaining much at all.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This should not become the most desired way to group for the mentor or the sidekick. It's another way to group with friends and complete tasks that you've outleveled. That should be the 'reward' for doing it.</DIV>

Lancealittle
03-02-2005, 10:47 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kwoung wrote:<BR> <DIV>Issues:<BR></DIV> <OL> <LI>XP is WAY to much when mentoring. A 25-50% reduction is what it says, but the fact of the matter is, even with that I gain XP 3x as fast mentoring a low teens as I do when hunting mobs my own level (33). Along those lines, I saw a couple folks mentored down to 11 killing scarecrows in Ant outside the gate last night. The mentoree was no where in sight ( see point 1) and to my knowledge, the last time I saw those players a couple days ago they were in their high 20's I believe.. they were now 36 and climbing. <BR></LI></OL> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I hope they /bugged this while exploiting.</DIV>

Zindicatt
03-03-2005, 12:51 AM
<DIV>High level summoner pets should auto-destroy or at least there should be a warning message when the summoner goes into mentoring mode with his overpowering pet.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What happened to us the other night:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lvl 37 Necro mentors lvl 32 wiz and shammy.  His pet is > lvl 32.  But it stays after he enters mentoring mode.  Mobs were conning green to us before the fight, but as soon as any of us engages, the mobs turned grey.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I reported on the other thread but I'd thought I do this here also.</DIV>

Blackguard
03-03-2005, 03:09 AM
<blockquote><hr>Kwoung wrote:<BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Yokozuna wrote:<DIV>Mentoring is amazing - except for a few bugs i wouldn't change a thing about it.</DIV><DIV>I was getting really bored playing this game but with the new exp changes and </DIV><DIV>mentoring i'm playing way more and having fun again !</DIV><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>As for the XP and mentoring... it is better XP... by far... than hunting at your own level. While fun for a bit, I don't think leveling to 50 in Oakmyst or outside the front gate on Qeynos would be very fun. But, as demonstrated by the folks thaty have been doing it for 3 days straight, people will if that is the best way to gain XP.. and they will miss everything the game had to offer along the way, get bored and quit... their only accomplishment being leveling to 50 overnight (so to speak).</P><P>Also should be addressed, it is very easy to afk macro in newbie areas, because the mobs are plentiful and pop fast. Even if the xp was lowered and wasn't quite as good as regular hunting, you will see the macroers in the low level zones 24x7 wiping out spawns over and over.. just like it was in SWG (where you could reach Master level in combat skills while afk in noobie zones)... Unless of course, steps are taken prior to implementation to combat that. Currently, because you can turn of the mentoree's XP or have him out of XP range, you could effectively gain as many levels as you need without a single break other than server downs. Really, the only way to keep this from happening is to insure that the mentoree has to be earning XP for the mentor to get XP, that way they will continue to level and outgrow those newbie areas very quickly.. making macroing in one spot unrewarding.</P><hr></blockquote>I'm happy to see that everyone is enjoying the Mentoring system so far. For those concerned with the rate at which Mentors gain experience, the update that went to Test last night should address the issue. There is now a scaling progression in Mentor experience gain. Meaning, if you are Mentoring a low level player, you won't get as much experience (percentage-wise) as you would while Mentoring a higher level player.As for requiring Apprentices to have experience gain enabled in order for a Mentor to get experience, I'll pass that feedback along.

Shunidar
03-03-2005, 07:29 PM
<DIV>Thanks Blackguard.  Was that left out of the patch notes?</DIV>

Gallenite
03-03-2005, 09:05 PM
<DIV>This one missed the first update, but apprenti should indeed need to have their experience gain turn on in order to be mentored.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If that's not the case on test, holler. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Scott</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

C
03-03-2005, 10:18 PM
<DIV>Now that the changes to mentoring xp values, the elimination of high level buffs and a few other tweaks (like the one Gallenite mentioned) are in, we'd appreciate some more feedback on the system.  The new total xp gained while mentoring is of primary interest.  Our target here is to maintain the incentive for players to adventure at their actual level while providing the option to go help out friends but still receive a reward.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Let us know how the new changes are doing in regards to that goal.</DIV>

Kwoung
03-03-2005, 10:35 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cao wrote:<BR> <DIV>The new total xp gained while mentoring is of primary interest.  Our target here is to maintain the incentive for players to adventure at their actual level while providing the option to go help out friends but still receive a reward.<BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I think you shot a little low on the adjustments, my wife (level 33) tested this again last night grouped with my daughter (level 14) and experience for my wife was painfully slow. After an hour of killing crabs in Antonica (green-blue ^^ mobs), she made less than 1% of XP, which she can get off a couple / few mobs at her regular level.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Kwoung on <span class=date_text>03-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:37 AM</span>

Rondari
03-03-2005, 10:41 PM
<DIV>How about requiring the Mentoree to be within range of the fight?  If Mentoree is not within range Mentor does not get XP?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Rondari</DIV>

Yokozuna
03-03-2005, 11:46 PM
<DIV>If the exp change is as kwong says then that is too big a change. I don't think you have to give incentive for people to want to play at their proper level. I'm sure people will want to do that anyway. I see no benefit</DIV> <DIV>in punishing people for mentoring their friends. Getting 1% exp per hour isn't fun. I remember moorguard saying something about making this game fun was some kinda mantra in the office. I would suggest </DIV> <DIV>tweeking it a litte and err on the side of fun :smileyvery-happy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Lancealittle
03-03-2005, 11:59 PM
<DIV>I don't think they want mentoring to be a way to level the mentor. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Zindi gets a chance to group with her daughter without making an alt for it. If she still gained xps at a reasonable rate and only grouped with her daughter it would cause some problems. The lower level person would advance and get closer to the mentors level, but the mentors level keeps going up so the gap is not closing. The mentor is also falling behind in cash drops and dropped/quested items, so they have gear that they've outleveled and no cash to get more from a broker. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm not sure how the coding works, but would a level 40 in grey armor scale down to be the equal of the mentoree's level with grey armor?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The lower the challenge, the lower the xps given to the mentor. I think the easiest way is to just keep the xps per kill the same on the mob. If you are level 17 and mentoring a 12 you would get ok xps. If you were a 40 mentoring that 12 then you would probably not notice any gains.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>They should almost make it so that the mentor has to turn off xps in order to become a mentor.</DIV>

Moorgard
03-04-2005, 12:01 AM
<DIV>The amount of XP you receive while mentoring someone will scale depending on the level of the apprentice. If you mentor someone who is level 14, you will receive only a fraction of the XP you would get at your own level. If you mentor someone who is over level 25, you'll get considerably more.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Again, mentoring is about bringing people together and having fun. We don't want mentoring to be the preferred way for a high-level player to advance, so XP gain while mentoring will be lower. We're deliberately starting low and will scale up if necessary; we don't want to start high and reduce it later. We have to be very careful with this system, as it affects the dynamics of the way the player base gains XP.</DIV>

goboy
03-04-2005, 12:09 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Moorgard wrote:<BR> <DIV>The amount of XP you receive while mentoring someone will scale depending on the level of the apprentice. If you mentor someone who is level 14, you will receive only a fraction of the XP you would get at your own level. If you mentor someone who is over level 25, you'll get considerably more.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Again, mentoring is about bringing people together and having fun. We don't want mentoring to be the preferred way for a high-level player to advance, so XP gain while mentoring will be lower. We're deliberately starting low and will scale up if necessary; we don't want to start high and reduce it later. We have to be very careful with this system, as it affects the dynamics of the way the player base gains XP.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P></FONT> </P> <P>Moorgard,</P> <P>The one thing I would caution, if you set the bar too low then people will not mentor.  IMHO, mentoring should give the mentor at least 50% of the experience they would receive in a group fighting content of the appropriate level.  This would encourage more mentors without causing bottom feeding.</P> <P>I read many message boards, and hands down people are excited about mentoring.  They are excited that they can xp with friends and get to play content they have outgrown.  I truley believe this excitement will be muted if the experience gain is too little.</P> <P> </P>

Lancealittle
03-04-2005, 01:01 AM
<DIV>I guess me not knowing anything about coding is keeping me from understanding the last change. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With the new changes mentoring a level 15 would give you very little xps for your level if you were 19 or 45. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I would think that the more trivial the content is to you the lower the xps. A level 19 has just barely outleveled the level 15 group content. If the mentor got the xps a level 15 would get, but still needed a set amount of xps to get to level 20, he would still be progressing at an acceptable pace. The 45 however may as well have xps turned off if getting level 15 xps. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That would also scale well for any mentor group. My 32 would get ok xps while mentoring a 27, but a 45 would still get crappy xps. It would be better than mentoring the 15, but still not level 45 xps.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There will be some cases where people mentor down just one level. If I ding level 20 and grey out most of the dungeon we are in it would be nice to mentor down one level and get the same xps I was getting in previous fights. The way it is right now I would get very little xps and would be better off leaving the group in the dungeon rather than continuing on.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Lancealittle on <span class=date_text>03-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:02 PM</span>

Shunidar
03-04-2005, 03:04 AM
<DIV>I just wanted to echo goboy here and say that mentoring is one of the most exciting new features we have seen to date.  I also spent some time playing City of Heroes, where a similar system had been implemented there much to the delight of the player community.  I think the system here will actually be better for reasons I will not elaborate on.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But like goboy said, if hibies see mentoring as a chore then they will be less likely to want to take part in it.  I don't know how difficlut this would be to implement, but I really like the idea that if you are 35 and kill a blue ^^ while mentoured to a lvl 15 in a 2 man group, you get the same xp as if you killed a blue ^^ in a two man group your level minus 25% (maybe 30 or 35 if still too high).  They both represent similar levels of difficulty, encourages the hibie to primarily xp at his own level, but doesn't make the hibie groan in dismay at the thought of spening an hour grouped with this lowbie.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>EDIT:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>After rereading the dev's posts about this a few times, I <U>think</U> what they are trying to say is that there will be a system similar to what I described above, except that percentage decrease in xp gets larger the lower down in levels you go presumably because lower level mobs are somewhat easier.  Feel free to correct me if I am wrong, as I am not quite sure I exactly understand the plan.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Shunidar on <span class=date_text>03-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:24 PM</span>

Kwoung
03-04-2005, 09:46 PM
<DIV>Ok, Zindi and I spent a couple hours mentoring a level 27 last night.. there was a very noticable difference in XP.. we gained ~10% for the time we were grouped (Cerra, it was about 2 hours right?).. so, it seems to be...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A level 33 mentoring...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>... a level 14 = 1% XP per hour</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>... a level 27 = 5% XP per hour</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am fine with the 33/27 mentoring, but I still think the 33/14 one offers to little reward for the mentor. Even the 33/27 is enough of a drop in XP gain from correct level hunting to keep us away from using it as a preferred method to hunt.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>BTW, I still think that the apprentice needs to be required to be in range of XP and have it enabled to be mentored, just way to many people who will exploit it otherwise. Even still, I will bet folks will still go to bed macroing because they can wake up to a new level... free XP is free XP after all.</DIV>

Torali
03-05-2005, 05:02 AM
<DIV>My husband (30.5) mentored my level 16 Predator. By the time my Pred was a 22.5 Assassin, Cimee had just ding'd 32. I'm not a mathematician and trying will bore me...but that's what the results were. We didn't fight anything but even/yellow up arrow'd mobs the entire time. I didn't really see it as 6.5 levels on the one to being mentored to the 1.5 levels on the mentor being overpowered. And I did notice that once she hit 20, Cimee's xp started getting slightly better.</DIV>

Kwoung
03-05-2005, 05:33 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Torali wrote:<BR> <DIV>My husband (30.5) mentored my level 16 Predator. By the time my Pred was a 22.5 Assassin, Cimee had just ding'd 32. I'm not a mathematician and trying will bore me...but that's what the results were. We didn't fight anything but even/yellow up arrow'd mobs the entire time. I didn't really see it as 6.5 levels on the one to being mentored to the 1.5 levels on the mentor being overpowered. And I did notice that once she hit 20, Cimee's xp started getting slightly better.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Was that all under the new code or a mixture of the older increased XP levels and the new reduced ones?<BR>

Torali
03-05-2005, 07:52 PM
<DIV>That was all before the patch that reduced xp and fixed the buffs. Sorry...sick again and brain is being fried with fever or I wouldn't have left that part out before.</DIV>

Daffid011
03-06-2005, 06:56 AM
I spent about half an hour mentoring someone doing the level 20 armor quests around blackburrow. The experience was a little over 2%ish fighting green/blue no arrow group gnolls. It was ok experience for the challenge, especially considering we were never in any danger fighting groups of 3-5. Enough so that I don't imagine anyone would complain about it while also getting to help out their lower level friends and such. I am level 29 berserker for reference and the xp was comparable to fighting blue/green ^^ giants in thundering steppes. I did however notice that fighting the giants earlier, the ones that could nuke were very very dangerous until they ran out of power (which was pretty fast thankfully). On the flip side, the gnoll nukers/priests couldn't seem to land any spells on me. Make me wonder if resists are scaling, not that the resist system makes any sense to begin with =PWe also tried a few tricks like killing something down to 1% while gray and then trying to mentor for easier xp/named combats which didn't work (no mentoring in combat). It might still work if the higher level person zoned and the rest of the group was the right level range thus making it xp/chest giving.

C
03-07-2005, 12:53 AM
<DIV>As Moorgard said, we are being conservative with the initial Mentoring benefits for a variety of reasons.  Primarily, we are trying to stay on the side of, 'system that allows me to group with my friends and get some reward' rather than, 'system that makes me want to always Mentor because it's easier and faster than grouping at my level.'  That's a delicate balance to achieve.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The content in EQII is scaled across some level ranges.  Specifically, the difficulty around level 10 (where class choice occurs) and the difficulty around level 20 (where sub-class choice occurs) creates a power difference that makes creatures easier to kill.  While this is great for players who are actually in their teens and twenties, it provides too much of an incentive to Mentors if the xp reward at that level is too great.  Because of this, the xp rewards in the teens are very low.  The rewards gradually increase until, at level 25 and above, the Mentor earns a steady (but reduced) reward for using the system.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But even this explanation shifts the focus of the discussion from the real benefits of the system.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Mentoring allows you to play with your friends and powerlevel them a bit.  Apprentices get an xp bonus per mentor, an experienced guide to point them at the best content and at least one powerful group member.  Instead of having to tackle the challenges of the game alone with people they don't know, Apprentices get the best possible experience of the game.  The one you as a Mentor provides.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>At the end of the day, Mentoring is more about the Apprentice than it is the Mentor.  While the higher level player should get some reward for the challenges faced, the focus of the system needs to remain on giving players friends the ability to help one another out.</DIV>

Eelyen
03-07-2005, 08:20 AM
<DIV>Gratz Badkore on being the first person to attain level 50 on test and via the Mentor system at the same time <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>PS. I exclude those recently copied characters.</DIV>

CerraWhisperwind
03-07-2005, 09:51 AM
<blockquote><hr>Eelyen wrote:<DIV>Gratz Badkore on being the first person to attain level 50 on test and via the Mentor system at the same time <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><DIV> </div><DIV>PS. I exclude those recently copied characters.</div><hr></blockquote>Wasn't he one of those recently copies characters? <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Eelyen
03-07-2005, 07:09 PM
<DIV>There is a difference between "Copy" and "Moved" <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I say no more.</DIV>

Daffid011
03-07-2005, 09:25 PM
Did some more mentoring at level 15 last night. Noticed the XP bar shows how much xp is being reduced, 90% for me at the time. It was painfully slow, but I was just helping a friend.What I do think people will mind is XP debt sitting in their bar for a long time while mentoring young friends. I died once and gained the standard 1% xp debt and it stayed for the next two hours or there abouts. I just wanted to point this out as some people get totally insane over XP debt even though it is almost nil now (thanks for that by the way).::end babble::

Kwoung
03-09-2005, 01:12 PM
<DIV>A use for mentoring my wife and I will use a lot.. is when one of us dinges before the other. In the past, we just turned off XP to let the other catch up or the one behind would just go solo, but now the mentoring works for that..... BUT, just one comment on the matter...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I dinged 34, she was still just 95% into 33, so I mentored her. I took a 50% hit to my XP and she only gained 5%. Although this is better than me just turning the XP off altogther, I would think being so close in levels, either she would get a bigger cut or my hit wouldn't be so huge. Is there a way to maybe scale it better so the closer in levels the characters are, the smaller the hit is (more so than the current setup I mean)?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Even if she had 5 mentors, that is only a 25% boost to XP and they would each being giving up 50% to accomplish that.. seems like an aweful lot of XP out the wondow for what is a very minor difference in levels. Anyhow, as a dou, it seems that she would have been better off soloing than having me help, as she got a 5% boost, but lost half the XP for having me in the group.</DIV>

Silverdrop
03-09-2005, 07:37 PM
> it seems that she would have been better off soloing than having me help, as she got a 5% boost, but lost half the XP for having me in the group.I don't think she lost anything in XP. Getting less xp per kill when she got you in the group is normal, and should be offset by the fact you two can kill things quicker (or can kill things together she otherwise could not by herself). If you compare it to the situation before you dinged, her xp should still be 5% better. You yourself lost a hefty chunk of your xp of course, but in all reasonableness (and has been stated by the devs), mentoring is more about the apprentice than the mentor. I would not even consider mentoring when the level difference is just 1 level.I think the mentor should loose considerably more in xp than the apprentice gains.