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View Full Version : Workshop task solution (repost from eq2test.com)


Kwoung
02-16-2005, 11:26 AM
<DIV><SPAN class=postbody><FONT size=2>I posted this over at eq2test.com.. but though it would be better served here.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=postbody><FONT size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=postbody><FONT size=2>Since it is near impossible to pay out a 20% profit on workshop tasks, as the cost of obtaining the items to produce the final product is not set and varies considerably, I thought up a possible solution which would help on many levels. I am taking it for granted here that workshop tasks are supposed to generate a profit.<BR><BR>Keep in mind I haven't fully thought this thru, so feel free to rip the idea up. <BR><BR>Here it is: <BR><BR>Instead of tradeskill tasks attempting to award a monetary amount, how about the task giver issuing all the sub components required to make the item with the task? He could also toss in the fuel cost for that tier. Basically a break even proposition, which is very fair. <BR><BR>In short, you get the task and the NPC says "I need ten copies of Lightning Storm for the militia made... Here are 10 Inks, Papers and Quills, bring them back asembled!". When you return, he hands you your payment, which covers the fuel cost... and optionally a profit it that is the intent.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=postbody></DIV> <DIV><BR><FONT size=2>This solution will then leave the harvestables out in the world, to be used to craft items for players, vs being consumed enmasse for the tradeskill tasks for profit and grinding levels. Craftsmen could then make X number of items for sale to earn a profit on, while being able to advance their skill and not using up all their precious resources to do so. <BR><BR>I know I would be very happy to do "free" grinding... heck, I would even be happy eating the fuel cost if we were just talking a final combine. <BR><BR>As for the possible abuse of folks selling off the goods made from the issued components to players, just make sure no new task can be awarded until the previous one was completed. Also, supplying regular components instead of pristine, will pretty much keep this from happening as no one wants subpar items. The sellback price of items to vendors could also be lowered considerably after doing this, as the cost of grinding the tradeskill is no longer an issue. This also works well with the upcoming attunable gear I saw posted about. The sellback on that gear will be low and it can not be traded, which makes folks gear an actual money sink now, they can not simply get a friend to craft something, buy it for cost and sell it back afterwards for a possible profit... it would always be a loser, as it should be. Also, not sure if it is needed, but the spawn rate of harvestables could be lowered considerabily as well because of this, thus also slowing down the influx of cash into the worlds via wholesaler harvesting tasks, while still having enough available to meet the needs of player crafted goods.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>Anyhow, I think this method would work great, as it gives SOE 100% control over how much a workshop task costs / earns a player, down to the copper.. regardless of server economy and resource availability. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>What do you think?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=postbody> </DIV></SPAN><p>Message Edited by Kwoung on <span class=date_text>02-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:27 PM</span>

goboy
02-16-2005, 05:25 PM
<DIV>I am all for changing the tasks - however, I think this would make it far too easy for everyone to level a tradeskill alt.  Not that there is anything wrong with everyone having one, but I do think there should be more work involved.</DIV>

Shunidar
02-16-2005, 08:55 PM
<DIV>Unfortunately, this does not address the fact that armorers, woodworkers, tailors, alchemists, etc are still required to make "shaped" goods to hand in.  Making shaped goods is a very poor way to xp.  I think the xp hit would be more substantial in the propsed system since you cannot xp from making your own subcombines.  Also, I fear that the lack of flexibility to eventually delete or get a new workshop task would leave us at an overall disadvantage.  This would limit our ability to skip tasks we don't want and/or are bugged.  It also introduces a potentially very bugy mechanic where you get components that only you can use, or can't trade, or can't use in other combines.  I still think the best way to address this problem is three fold:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1) To allow a 20% profit (break even on guild tasks) after accounting for the cost of making your own subcombines</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2) Allow us to hand in pristine/regular goods</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3) Ensure that we obtain tasks appropriate for our level.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know that is a tall order, but is simply the best overall solution without cutting any corners imo.</DIV>

Kwoung
02-16-2005, 10:03 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Shunidar wrote:<BR> <DIV>1) To allow a 20% profit (break even on guild tasks) after accounting for the cost of making your own subcombines <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>How is that possible? From what baseline are you working to achieve that 20% profit?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If based off the cost of my own combines, then I could achieve considerably more than the 20% by having a friend make me the subcombines at half what it costs me. If I buy my subcombines, how can I ever get a 20% profit, there is no telling how much I paid for them. Even still, what about the harvestables, at what rate are they being factored in, market rate, 1cp, zero or 1/15 of what a wholesaler task of that tier pays? The difference in costs is huge, there is no way to figure what 20% profit would be, you would either be giving one player way to much and anopther way to little except in the remotest of cases where the stars aligned and the crafter somehow has the perfect situation to meet whatever variables were used to come up with that 20%. That is what my solution addresses.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, there is nothing stopping the player with tons of funds to PL his crafter, nor is anything stopping the player who just buys and sells to level up. This is just an alternative method of leveling, albiet slower due to lower level items being made at shaped or regular quality. The benefit is, you can level up both your skill and the tradeskill society by doing it.. it is not meant to be the most efficient or quickest way to level... just an alternative. I do not feel any "free" method should be the best method available, crafting goods to sell should always be a more efficient option.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for everyone making an crafting alt because of this, I doubt it. The previous system allowed to you make a profit doing it, yet not everyone made a tradeskiller to take advantage of that. Most players dislike crafting and won't do it regardless of how easxy /hard it may be.. because it is all hard and a waste of time to them. BTW, the only time non-crafters make alts, is when it is more cost efffective or easier to do so than just going out and buying what they need off the market. If the overall system is working correctly, the average adventurer will be able to meet his crafted needs at a price he can live with and the thought of making a crafting alt to fill some need, will never enter his mind.</DIV>

Shunidar
02-17-2005, 12:12 AM
<DIV>Fantastic question, exactly how is 20% defined?  By the current standards 20% can even be a loss, even if you gather your own material and have other people do your subcombines at cost.  Anyway SoE decides to define 20% is fine by me, as long as it is in a positive direction no matter if you make your own subcombines or not (and not negative as is currently the case).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What I don't quite understand from your post is how people with tons of money PL their crafters?  I also don't understand what you mean by someone who just buys and sells to level up.  If you could please reiterate that point, I would feel more like I understand what you are trying convey.  Is there a workshop XP bonus as well as the supposed 20% profit that I am unaware of?  (I have only done a couple and didn't notice an xp bonus, but I was paying more attention to monitary return than anything)  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyway, this is about idea sharing, so let me try to be clear about my partner's and I's point of view.  Collectively we have an alchemist, tailor, woodworker, armorer, and provisioner, all T4 except the prov who is T3.  I don't have a sage, so what you see vs what we see may be very different things.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Before this patch (and even now), the only effective way to level an armorer (and to a smaller extent woodworker, weaponsmith, etc) past the central point of thier tiers (eg 25-29, 35-39, 45-49) is to make lots and lots of pristine/regular goods near your level.  The problem with that is that those classes have relatively few recipies in that range, armorers in particular.  As you can imagine, this creates quite a bit of grinding and leads to a lot of armor, weapons, shields, etc that never get sold.  IF, the goods you make are only shaped, the xp gain is much smaller, particularly when you consider the sheer number of subcombines it takes those classes to create a piece of armor (essentially wasting good components on little xp and a small coin return from the NPC merchant).  If you restrict armorers, woodworkers, weaponsmiths to making shaped green goods in order to fill a writ, for practically no XP and no money then the writ becomes a very unattractive and cumbersome way to level.  This explains why no one was actually doing anything but wholesaler writs, even on the live servers.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is why I am such an advocate of creating a meaningful reward from doing the workshop tasks.  I am not alone in this feeling either, I encourage you to go visit the tradeskill forums and see what folks there are saying about workshop tasks.  Coin and reasonable xp (if only from the grinding involved!) in return for the time invested would do wonders for making tradeskill tasks a viable way to xp and earn some coin. </DIV><p>Message Edited by Shunidar on <span class=date_text>02-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:17 AM</span>