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View Full Version : Pricing issues - more on provisioner supply issues


Ceruline
02-16-2005, 01:11 AM
I just read Moorgard's post on further adjustments to the tradeskill system, and feel that all of these changes are for the good. However, I am slightly worried about one issue that I think the fuel price changes may not address as much as it is intended to - drink prices.While I play on Test, I know that drink prices on Live even now are often considered to be excessive. Food prices, on the other hand, are not nearly as steep from anecdotal evidence on several boards. While the fuel price changes on consumables should help to avert a large increase in food/drink prices due to fuel costs, it isn't going to address the underlying supply and demand issues behind the high prices. I'm going to briefly outline some of the issues which are behind the insufficient drink supply.When compared to food, it is significantly harder to acquire the resources needed to put together even stopgap provisions (I'm thinking of all of the interim products which are still consumable for benefit, but for a much lower duration than the finished combines) A large factor in this is that drink resources are only harvestable from shrubbery nodes, while it is generally possible to put together stopgap foods from fishing nodes. Shrubbery nodes tend to host 7 or more different resources. Frequently, only a few of these are usable to create the various drink subcombines.By contrast, fishing nodes only host 2-3 resources, ALL of which can be used to create basic food subcombines with the addition of no additional resources (And which can serve as very useful 50 minute food products when resource strapped)Let's look specifically at tier 2 (Simply because I know it best):The following harvestables can be used to make basic drink subcombines: Oranges, Coffee Beans, Tea Leaves, Wheat, Vanilla. There are three other shrubbery harvests which can not (Thyme, Carrot, Walnuts) That's only 5/8 of the harvests which can be used to create drinks (Plus with 8 different harvests you would need an average of 160 total successful harvests to get a full stack of any of them). In 100 successful harvests, 62.5 items could be turned into a drink base.Fishing nodes have 3 harvests, all of which can be turned into basic food subcombines. It will take an average of 60 total successful harvests to get a full stack of any of them. In 100 successful harvest, all 100 items can be turned into a food base. This is a significant discrepency. However, it doesn't even take into account how much easier it is to find fishing nodes, and the much higher rate at which someone can find and harvest fish nodes as opposed to shrubbery nodes. In short, getting the resources to make basic (1 combine) food is very easy, whereas finding the resources to make basic drink (Some 1 combine, some require 2 combines) is harder.Even then, there are more discrepencies between a provisioners ability to supply food and drink. Food generally tends to require fewer combines per unit of duration (1 combine food lasts 50 minutes, while 1 combine drink lasts 33)The net effect is that it will take a provisioner a significantly longer amount of time to supply 100 hours worth of drink than of food. This causes a lower amount of supply, and correspondingly signficantly higher prices for drinks.The pricing of drinks is something I would consider to be more of a "quality of life" issue applied to the everquest playerbase. It's not something that's going to break the game, but I think that increasing the provisioner's ability to supply drink is in the best interest of the game, especially if the problem is tackled from the resource side of things.Creating consumables is a money sink, for a constant amount of in game currency per unit of consumable made and used. Therefore, the more units of consumables sold and used, the more effective of a money sink it is. Therefore, to maximize the effect of the money sink, the design should encourage the sale of as many units as possible. As of now, the cap on the number of units sold and consumed is determined entirely by the supply, or lack thereof. As a benefit to the player base, as suppy increases the cost of keeping their character supplied with level appropriate provisions decreases.Addressing the supply issue by reducing the amount of time and effort required to obtain appropriate resources for drinks would increase the supply without introducing any permanent wealth to the game, and without decreasing the per unit money sink of drink.A recomendation that I've seen which would not require any extreme mechanical changes (Such as making shrubberies yield six harvests, or doubling the number of shrubberies which spawn) is simply to add a few recipes which allow the creation of drinks from existing fished components (As mentioned above, these are much much easier to gather in quantity). While I personally would not find such a thing appetizing, I believe there is at least some precedent with fish based drinks having been craftable in the original Everquest.Such a recipe could either be added to the basic books, or be in a questable book (Maybe some old hermit knows how to make em, but wants the player to make him one of each alchoholic drink in the tier before he'll teach the player how. A different quest for each tier's "fish drink") Another factor to balance such an addition - make a fish based drink a 40 minute 2 combine affair. This is a lower duration per combine (Or higher cost per duration, depending how you view it) than existing drinks, and is a relatively low maximum duration. This should keep existing drinks from being forsaken, while enabling a greater supply, lower market prices, greater quantities of drink sold, and more net money drained from the economy.(Incidentally, because this whole message has been about how to further fix things, I'd just like to be clear that I love the latest round of announced changes, and think they're exactly what was needed, lest I appear overly critical)Thanks for all the effort!-Ceruline

tesarei
02-16-2005, 01:55 AM
<DIV>fish wine existed in eq1 but eww i dont want to drink a cod fish</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Ceruline
02-16-2005, 02:01 AM
I know... the idea is icky, but it would help a lot in terms of the resource based time costs for drinks.It doesn't address crafting time costs though, which are still a major issue.