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Corlin
02-11-2005, 05:13 PM
<DIV><FONT color=#ffff00><STRONG>- Tradeskill society tasks will now reward a 20% profit margin based on the fuel costs necessary to create the items.</STRONG></FONT><FONT color=#ffff00><STRONG></DIV></STRONG></FONT> <DIV>Did two alchemy workshop tasks. I am level 31 alchemist, was asked to make 10 level 28 fighter arts, and then 10 level 27s. Handed them in upon completion and received 38s 28c each time. (*scratches noggin*)<BR><BR>Fuel cost to make ten arts is 48s, total cost to make ten arts is 54.4s, vendor buyback price for ten arts is 26.6s. None of these multiplied by 120% yields what I received. Not sure how the calculations are done, but it does beat vendor prices. Now I can receive slightly over 70% of costs, instead of the 49% I receive from vendors.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ffff00>- Crafted food and drink now restores 25% more health and power per tick. <SPAN>Store purchased food and drink has had its restorative benefits reduced by 66%</SPAN>. Summoned food and drink is now half as effective.<BR></FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV>Happy for the provisioners, but that stack of T4 is still going to cost several gold pieces (I think that is what Toralu said). It will be 25% better, and now the vendor bought food/drink is 66% closer to junk (infinite supply, but now with less taste!). I predict this will have adventurers upset, not make provisioners happy. Also the non-provs that relied on store bought drink to provide power regen while crafting hour upon hour will need to add expensive drink stacks into their pass along costs.  In the past, I was satisfied with store bought drink while crafting, and saved crafter-made foods for when my life was on the line adventuring.  But this morning I was very disappointed in the store bought drink I have always used in the past while crafting my tasks.  To be clear => 66% reduction in effect (for the math-challenged) means it now takes three times as long to regen power.  Since alchemist tradeskills use a larger amount of power than other crafters, this means I need to once again sit about between craft completions, staring at the blue bar of power creepage until it refills.  Or buy provisioner drinks and pass more fuel costs along to customers.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Corlin on <span class=date_text>02-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:18 AM</span>

Jon
02-11-2005, 05:42 PM
Maybe my mind is exaggerating this, but now it seems to me that every third player needs to be a provisioner and that what's really happened is that more downtime has been added to the game.I've always found the following quote from Moorgard to be self-contradictory:"<i><b>However, there is a downside to such convenience. The ability to instantly buy any item at any time changes the fundamental experience of the game. Instead of logging in to seek adventure, you're logging in to go to an online shopping mall. The fun of this game is meant to be in going out and killing monsters to get loot and finding components to make items, not clicking the mouse a few times to have whatever you want.</b></i>"My goal is, and always has been, to go out and seek adventure, not to go shopping. But now I have to either hone my shopping skills or accept more downtime.I guess I'll take the downtime.

Ceruline
02-11-2005, 09:42 PM
The solution to the provisions problem needs to involve creating more of a supply of provisions, and lowering the per unit materials cost for the crafter. I believe the best way to do this is via multiple yields on "Finished" recipes as this will both increase total supply and lower the materials based price floor on a per unit basis.

tesarei
02-12-2005, 04:50 AM
<DIV>trade skill and my observations</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ok well the new costs are going make this extreamly prohibitive to work on trade skills</DIV> <DIV>example</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>to make a simple pice of leather armor etched  (tier 4)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>you need one etched plate</DIV> <DIV>1 etched cord</DIV> <DIV>1 pattern</DIV> <DIV>1 fuel</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>to make the etched plate you need 1</DIV> <DIV>1 refined etched leather</DIV> <DIV>1 oil</DIV> <DIV>1 fuel</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>to make the cord you need 1</DIV> <DIV>1 refined etched leather</DIV> <DIV>1 resin</DIV> <DIV>1 fuel</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>to make the etched leather you need 2</DIV> <DIV>1 raw </DIV> <DIV>1 wash</DIV> <DIV>1 fuel</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>to make the patern you need 1</DIV> <DIV>1 thread</DIV> <DIV>1paper</DIV> <DIV>1 fuel</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>to make the thread you need 1</DIV> <DIV>1 raw</DIV> <DIV>1 oil</DIV> <DIV>1 fuel</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>to make the paper you need 1</DIV> <DIV>1 raw</DIV> <DIV>1 resin</DIV> <DIV>1 fuel</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>to make resin you need 2 but one combine can net 1-4</DIV> <DIV>1 raw</DIV> <DIV>1 water</DIV> <DIV>1fuel</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>to make oil you need 2 one combine can net 1-4</DIV> <DIV>1 raw </DIV> <DIV>1 water</DIV> <DIV>1 fuel</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>to make wash you need 2 one combine can net 1-4</DIV> <DIV>1 raw </DIV> <DIV>1 water</DIV> <DIV>1 fuel</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>so if you make every thing yourself (as this will be the chepest in my opinion)</DIV> <DIV>you  need 11 fuels min, 3 waters min and your raws so thats 42.24 silver for fuels and 18 copper for water so a total of 42.42 silver per final combine</DIV> <DIV>this only sells back for 18 silver to merchant this a loss of 24.42 silver per combine now i have  not done a new trade skill task since the patch (going to do that and post back here) but unless it gives you 5.242 gold your not even going to break even. last i checked the payout was less then this.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>this is on the simplest compleat tailored item some are more complex and thus will cost more (some have multiple paddings for the cloth armor sams as the plate and chain)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>now i rember moorgaurd stating  in beta that the tasks were one way we were supposed to be able to make money granted not large amounts but some. as it is now yur not going to make any</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>crafting seams to get more tiedious as we get further and further into this game</DIV> <DIV>rember we play because we want to have fun.  the last sets of changes have not made this game more fun.</DIV> <DIV>exactly the  oppeset is happening.  now i dont mind paying more for the fuels but this should be compensated by the amout i get back from the tasks.   in your patch you have stated the status is our rewared well you know what that reward simply is not worth it you made it so we get minimal status (100 for tier 3) no loot. and what we can spend the status on just isnt worth the effort.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>where is the fun factor?  Bring back the fun factor and ill be happy to keep going. as it is i was getting so frustrated by eq 2 in general wich ill put in a different post. that i bought wow. you know what the crafting there is fun. may not be as compleax but its usefull and i enjoy it. eq2's?  well lets just say i have basicly stoped crafting as its very cost prohibitive for me before patch and is even more so now. it  takes to much time for return. isnt realy that much fun now that my skills take almost all my power per combine and you seem to have made the skill checks harder (many more negitive rolls). Then i spend way to much time regening from each combine. drops tend to be better then most of what i can make. what i make never disapears ( i would be for  all items being attuned wither droped or crafted so there not passed on and thus removed onece your done with them)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>as it is the system seams very flawed</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>things that can be done to fix this</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>make its so we make money selling to venders or at least doing tasks.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>make the tasks accept shaped or better (this i cant stress enf, in beta we were asked if shaped should be the minimum for the tasks and it was agreed that it was but many of us were under the asumption that if we made better it would still count. a few of us even asked that and we were told that yess they would. sadly that is not the case)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>make the items we create worth somting better then the drops.  Thus what we make is desirable</DIV> <DIV>This is somthing that was posted in forems that you would do. however this has failed to be met </DIV> <DIV>it was supposed to be store bought<droped<crafted common<quest<rare crafted < hard, rare or epic quest</DIV> <DIV>this is not how it has  turned out irn reality i think this needs to be fixed</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>make the level of quality for the items logical and meaning full.</DIV> <DIV>this means that a sheped item should not have better stats the a named or pristine adn a named should not have better then a pristine  however this again is not how it is.  i have seen many instances that teh shaped or named is better stat wise then the pristine this is just wrong wrong wrong </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>in all reality i think soe should consider that tradskilling should make money.  Trade skills dont have to be something that takes money out of the system. use the items being destroyied (sp) to take the money out. you have our housing taking money out (ie taxes), reparing items, food and dring as well as other consumibles arrows potions ect to take money out.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>the trade skillers need a way to make money just like the adventure class this is something we cant do. we have to get it from the adv class's and they for the most part buy very little of what we have so you can't use that as a source of income. so what do you do well you go adventure so you have money to invest  well this means that you will be in a stat of perpetual pauperness just so you can be a artisan. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>other mmprpgs trade skills make money it dosent break the systems its makes them fun and desirable.</DIV> <DIV>well this post is long enf</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>we will see what happens </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Shunidar
02-14-2005, 03:35 AM
<DIV>I think you should fire the guy who calculates the 20% return and hire me instead <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I am positive that using simple addition (or better yet excel) I could account for all the subcombines required to make the items.  Until then, using the workshop tasks and guild tasks would be a great way to level and make a little money provided that 2 changes are made.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1) Allow us to make pristine/regular items as well as shaped and hand those in since crafting shaped goods provides little to no xp gain whatsoever.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2) Account for the fuel needed to make WORT and all the subcombines into the "20%" profit we gain.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>PS, while you are at it, make woodworker arrows and totems, alchemist poisons/potions, and weaponsmith thrown weapons worth buying.  7g for a stack of T5 arrows are currently not worth buying.</DIV>