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Corlin
01-29-2005, 02:28 AM
<DIV><FONT size=2>Tested the AGI mods with my 21st troubador for a good part of today.  General impression is that it has removed high con soloability, but made low cons trivial.  Obviously matters little when grouping, this is only about solo experience.  Details below =></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>First, this only applies to melee mobs.  Casters slay me (not in the funny, ha ha way).  With version 1637T I was able to solo up to level 22 (yellow con) solo mobs (exps), and could dispatch a single lowest green^^ group mob (for chest drops).  If I ran through an area and picked up more than 3-4 solo (or worse group) greens or blues, I had to run, fighting meant death by a thousand pinpricks.  Now enter version 1649T.  No food or drink active.  My armor is poor to fair (gray to blue con, nothing fancy, no Armor Quests yet).  AC reports as 1936, AGI is 97 with all buffs.  Max defense skill, max parry as well.  Using new 6 minute Swindler's Luck, Bravo's Dance (when I can) and then lots of RInging Blow hero ops.  Weapons are Willow Wood Quest Sword (yellow to me) and Castleview Quest HorseHair Whip (blue con).  Skills are mostly Apprentice 4s (one or two Adept 1s).</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>I gathered up a dozen lowest green (normal, no ^s) group mobs - none of them could hit me (at all).  One hit in 30 would land, but I could heal it back, even locked in encounter.  I gave them 15 minutes, while slowly they died from parry.  Highest green group experiment, same result.  Lost roughly 5% health in 10 minutes of their furiously trying to harm me.   Lowest blue con group mobs (still no ^s), and now it was 20% health lost in 10 minutes, but still no fear of dieing.  Highest blue con group mobs were able to land 30% of their hits, so any more than 3 at a time and it got exciting.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>Tried the sets of two and three group green^ and lowest blue^ con mobs.  Seemed no different (except they obviously had more HPs, so took longer to dispatch).  Still could not cause me damage.  Did not try bunches of these, will experiment further.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>When it came to the single ^^ con group mobs, I cannot be hit by any level green.  Lowest blue^^ (like Bucky in Blackburrow), had no chance (this is new, I would have died to him before the patch, or it would have been VERY close at best).  Bucky landed so few blows, I turned off attack for a bit.  Drank a stout I had just fliched.  He might have eventually got lucky (parry was not slaying him very fast) but there was no challenge.  High blue^^ (one level above Bucky) was a different story.... engage and 5 seconds later I was dead.   Ditto anything higher (as it should be).</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>As to solo mobs, I can no longer defeat yellow con 22 griffawns in the steppes (those used to be top end for me, ending the battle with 10-20% health and little to no power).  Have tried some different tactics, might be able to win back high blue with different skills or order.  Bottom line, solo mobs higher than low blue are likely to kill me now.  Low blue and any green are like the group mobs above (they just dont hit me, bring on the hordes and just give me time).</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>So, the AGI tweak has made it impossible to nab yellows solo for exps (its intent, I believe), but low blues or any greens, be they solo or group or group^ or group^^ con, are varying shades of trivial.  It's almost like level is checked first now, then AGI.  Feels like some hard level difference (-2 or less) limit where AGI kicks in full force, even better than pre-patch, and you become invincible.  But on the other side of that level diff (-1 or greater), I get none (or very few) of the AGI benefits I was accustomed to up till yesterday.  I believe a more gradual change in AGI benefit (it's cliff like now) would be better.  </FONT></DIV> <P>Message Edited by Corlin on <SPAN class=date_text>01-28-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:45 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Corlin on <span class=date_text>01-28-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:48 PM</span>

Moorgard
01-29-2005, 08:15 AM
<DIV>Thanks for that feedback. Any other classes have similar observations?</DIV>

Corlin
01-29-2005, 02:30 PM
<DIV><FONT size=2>Worked this some more tonight - solo con mobs are fine.  Upped AC to 1988 with one bit of armor purchase (still no where near max possible at this level), and adjusted buff/debuff/HeroOps order quite a bit.  I can once again take on even con solo mobs, and +1 yellow mobs if I feel like gambling (win about 70% of the time).  Only now I lose a ton of health (sometimes all of it! *grins*).  The +1 yellow con battles before the patch were ho-hums... now they are nail-biting good fun.  Bravo.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>So all-in-all I have no real gripes about the higher con AGI changes, they have removed the group encounters we were never supposed to be able to best.  I am still concerned about the invincibility aspect on greens and lowest blues.  Something too trivial can ruin things just as badly as impossible encounters.  Perhaps this is only for bards though... any monk-types, or other scouts have different feedback?</FONT></DIV>

Melinda
01-29-2005, 02:40 PM
Tested the mobs in TS this morning a bit.My Char :Lv 25 BererkerStr 77 (self buffed)Agi 52Sta 50HP 1364Ac 2424Gear all yellow, with just boots and legs conning green.Most App 3, with 2 Adept 1.First i tried old style skels around Varsoon entr.(all mobs in these tests were meele npc)Old solo mobs (no +/-)Lv 25 single skel, no problem usually ended the fight with like 70 % Hp left.Lv 27 single skel, no problem usually ended the fight with like 50 % Hp left.New solo mobs (no +/-)Lv 24 Deadly Crab, big problem ended the fight with like 5 % HP left.Lv 25 Deadly Skel, big problem ended the fight with like 10 % HP left.Then i went on and tried a few group mobs.Lv 22 single ++ Skel, no go had to run before it was at 50 % Hp.Lv 24 single + Kitten, no go had to run before it was at 70 % Hp.For me situation is not different then it used to be pre patch.I havent been able to solo green ++ since like lv 23. Last time this worked for me was when they were sub 20.I may got to add that in like 15 or 20 of these harder solo mobs i havent had a single chest drop,nor did i get any sort of loot from the others. (beside some crab meat)Regards

Kwoung
01-29-2005, 02:40 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Corlin wrote:<BR> <DIV><FONT size=2>Something too trivial can ruin things just as badly as impossible encounters.  Perhaps this is only for bards though... any monk-types, or other scouts have different feedback?</FONT></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Lends itself to combat macroing through levels if you are immune to XP giving mobs. This was a serious issue in SWG as well and players could easilly max combat skill trees while afk due to it and the advanced in game macros.<BR>

Daffid011
01-31-2005, 11:42 PM
I did some soloing in SH the last few days as a berserker - level 21.Grey^^ - Green ^^ Could hit me once in a great blue moon.Blue^^ could hit me once in a while, but I would regen the damage long before getting hit again. Only tested this on a few skeletons.I did gather a group of 5 grey^^ defiled sentrys in the enterance hallway to see if I could kill them with nothing but AE attacks. These same skeletons that couldn't hit me solo, nearly killed me before I killed the first one. Whites and above I only attempted with groups. (monk 24, monk24, druid 21, berserker 21)However, 4 yellow con strong boxes(no arrows) wiped my group of 4 in about 15 seconds... twice. Two yellow^ was a very challenging fight for three of us. A single yellow^^ was also very challenging .I don't know what anything conned to the monks at 24.

FaybleTaleteller
02-03-2005, 06:01 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Daffid011 wrote:<BR>I did some soloing in SH the last few days as a berserker - level 21.<BR><BR>Grey^^ - Green ^^ Could hit me once in a great blue moon.<BR><BR>Blue^^ could hit me once in a while, but I would regen the damage long before getting hit again. Only tested this on a few skeletons.<BR><BR><BR>I did gather a group of 5 grey^^ defiled sentrys in the enterance hallway to see if I could kill them with nothing but AE attacks. These same skeletons that couldn't hit me solo, nearly killed me before I killed the first one. <BR><BR>Whites and above I only attempted with groups. (monk 24, monk24, druid 21, berserker 21)<BR>However, 4 yellow con strong boxes(no arrows) wiped my group of 4 in about 15 seconds... twice. <BR>Two yellow^ was a very challenging fight for three of us. <BR>A single yellow^^ was also very challenging .<BR>I don't know what anything conned to the monks at 24.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>One thing to remember,</FONT></DIV> <DIV>Both this poster, and the original OP, are just a bit above 20, so the blues and greens of which they speak are likely 19 or below, which means they have not gotten the boost that both player's and mobs get at level 20 yet, making them much more trivial of an encounter than they otherwise would be for thier con. A true test would have to be with a player closer to 27 or 30, so all of the mobs in questions have recieved the 20th level damage boost.</FONT></DIV> <DIV></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>Just a thought,</FONT></DIV> <DIV>Neukita/Legynd</FONT></DIV>

Daffid011
02-03-2005, 08:13 PM
Neukita is correct on that. I haven't had much time to play, but I did manage to romp around TS for a bit at level 22. Blue^^ sent me running for my life and yellow solo skeletons left me in bad shape after a fight.Those creatuers were 20+.

Agathorn
02-03-2005, 08:35 PM
<DIV>Some observations with my newbie Brawler.  This character was created AFTER this patch so I don't have any pre patch information to compare with.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Currently my brawler is level 13.  I wear pretty crappy gear.  Other than my Class tunic, and a couple pieces of jewelery I think all my armor is GREY IoR stuff.  My Agi is like 40 something, and my AC self buffed with the short lasting and almost useless App1 Martial Focus is 617 AC.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Solo mobs:</STRONG></DIV> <DIV>Greys, Greens: A joke.  Maybe if I fell alseep i'd be at risk but otherwise I can kill them even without touching a special attack.  They barely touch me.  Get enough of them though and eventually they'd wear me down.  I think this is fine.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Blues: These mobs are still rather easy, but put up a decent fight.  Not a problem to solo at all, even two or three at once.  I have to actually fight back and use specials and get too many of them i'm a dead duck.  I think this is fine.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Whites: One or Two solid white solo mobs at once is a very nice fight.  They do a good bit of dmg to me and I have to kill them fast.  Once more I think this is fine.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yellows: Yellow mobs I tend to not want more than one at a time.  Two can be very tricky unless i've got a priest with me.  These mobs can chew me up fast but I can kill them faster in every case i've seen.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Orange: I haven't tried any orange mobs at this time.  I am pretty confident I could solo one though, but the downtime after would be excessive and inefficient.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Reds: Haven't tried any red mobs at this time, but i'm willing to bet they would be near impossible for me right now.  Maybe with luck and good tactics I could solo one.  But it would be inefficient due to long downtime.  I think this is fine.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Group Mobs:</STRONG></DIV> <DIV>Green^, and Green^^ mobs are all over the scale, even on the same mobs same level.  I'm sure this has a lot to do with the brawler's "style" of tanking.  I can do one and come out of the fight with 90% health, then do another and come out at 50% health.  All in all they are relativly no threat to me even if i'm solo.  I do use up a lot of power to fight them though.  This is in reference to MELEE mobs.  Casters do much more dmg to me and i've not ever tried to solo a caster.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Blue^, and Blue^^ mobs.  Melee I can't solo but I can tank it long enough to get the mob down to about 40% health before I have to run.  In a group with a healer I can easily tank these.  Last night I was in Wailing Caves at level 12 and 13 with a level 9 priest.  He had zero problems keeping me on my feet.  In most all cases he had power to spare.  If we got off the HO that gives a Healt, plus Regen, plus Ward I was untouchable for like 30 seconds.  Those fights he'd usually end at 100% power unless he was nuking.  Again this was MELEE mobs.  Against caster mobs, if we got the HO off I was golden and again he'd finish the fight near full power.  Without the HO he'd sometimes spend a lot of power keeping me up due to the excessive damage I got, but then again casters drop faster so it all balanced out.  All in all I had zero problems tanking bue^^ group mobs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>At this time I have no experience fighting anythign higher than blue^^ group mobs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All in all I think things are fine.  I'll try to get in some testing against much tougher opponents though.</DIV>