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CerraWhisperwind
01-29-2005, 01:44 AM
I am playing a low level bard right now, and because my final HO skill has a 9 second recharge, if it is parried or blocked I do not have enough time to do it again before the HO fails. Mages and clerics have a 2 second recharge timer and have plenty of time for retrys. Perhaps the timer could be extended to 15 seconds?Another thing about this, when in a group and doing a HO that has to be done in a specific order, 10 seconds is usually not enough time as we can't all do our moves at once. We have to wait for person A to notice what skill to use, go through the activation timer, and then have person B use their skill, go through the activation timer, etc all in 10 seconds.

Agathorn
01-29-2005, 01:59 AM
<DIV>I completely agree.  I actually meant to post this in a previous post I made about the HO changes but I forgot.  Going from 30 seconds to 10 seconds I think is a bit too tight.  That's 1/3rd the time.  I think perhaps 15 seconds would be better.  I understand the reasoning behind the shorter length of time, but skill wise this makes it extremely hard to manage HOs -- even solo ones -- a lot of the time.  Sometimes -- often -- an HO advance move can miss, be resisted blocked parried etc, and this simply doesn't give time to allow for those events.  Now maybe that is the intention, i'm not sure.  But 15 seconds I think would work better while still restricting the time.</DIV>

Jiggers
01-29-2005, 11:38 PM
<DIV>just wanted to echo what was said here</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>. . .i was in a group last night that, on a fairly consistent basis,  used a fighter > priest > mage HO.  we didnt really have any problems until we got to archaic ruin.  its a clockwise working HO that we were never able to pull off. . .to do so would have required everyone second guessing when it was their turn (overlaping casting/art use), and even had we been able to do that, it would go off only if no one was resisted, which happens often.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>possible solutions might be:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- make the HO 'free for all.' allow it to be completed in any order.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- increase timer to 15 seconds.  completion would still be a challenge, but it would be do-able then i think (i havent tried any full 4 person HO's so im not sure if there are any that function similarly).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- reseting the timer at each completion step.  giving each participant 10 seconds to respond.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- leave it as is, and ensure that the resultant effect has a dramatic influence on the encounter, worthy of pulling off such a feat =)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(jigs)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Jiggers on <span class=date_text>01-29-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:23 AM</span>

Evadne
01-30-2005, 12:19 AM
As a shaman my Bruiser friend and I have a couple of HO's. Fighter triggers, I have to follow with my very first heal ever, minor healing as it is the only spell that uses the cup for a shaman, then another HO comes up asking for the cup. The final result is a heal for the one who finishes. But the recast time, and casting time of minor heal gives the fighter(the one being hit and likely to need the heal) about 2 seconds to cast his portion of the HO. Almost impossible unless he is guessing.10 seconds is far to short between recast times, and casting times of the various spells in the HO's. Add the casting time of every spell and you will find many of the complex ones are impossible unless they are random results. This will make HO's become less valuable...wasting casting time on a minor heal for me....is not good. ~Eva

Kwoung
01-30-2005, 01:24 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jiggers wrote:<BR> <DIV>we didnt really have any problems until we got to archaic ruin.  its a clockwise working HO that we were never able to pull off. . .to do so would have required everyone second guessing when it was their turn (overlaping casting/art use), and even had we been able to do that, it would go off only if no one was resisted, which happens often. <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Mostlky my fault.. as the spell other than a really low level spell that is used to advance that is on a 30 second timer and is my #1 nuke that I cast immediately upon refresh each time. I am not holding back on a 300-400 point nuke every 30 seconds in hopes of some HO... just isn't goiing to happen. As for the low level spell that can advance it.. don't have room on my cast bar for it and on those close fights like we were doing.. I am not wasting mana on some 20 point nuke and minor stun when once again...I could be casting a nice dot (for the same mana).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am going to play around with my hotkey bars, but in general the Wiz portion of the HO's are advanced either by spells I never use or have a hugeely long recast on them, which will cause me to go over the 10 second timer every time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On a somewhat related note.. the large amount of crappy nukes/stun combo spells I have is nuts, those things are near worthless.. a couple second stun does nothing in the scheme of things, so I am still using my level 10 nuke (blaze) on every single fight at level 27. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

Jiggers
01-30-2005, 01:53 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kwoung wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jiggers wrote:<BR> <DIV>we didnt really have any problems until we got to archaic ruin.  its a clockwise working HO that we were never able to pull off. . .to do so would have required everyone second guessing when it was their turn (overlaping casting/art use), and even had we been able to do that, it would go off only if no one was resisted, which happens often. <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Mostlky my fault</FONT>.. <BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>well not really since the priest is the first on the rotation and we completed the first part, what, two or three times? . . . and that was with 2 preists in the group :smileysurprised:.  if i remember correctly (and i often dont), i think there was one time in the three hrs of the group where we managed to get the HO to the final stage, and there was, at most,  2 seconds left.</P> <P>(jigs)</FONT>  </P> <P> </P> <P>EDIT: ok. . i feel the need to post this even though i will be eating my own words. . . grouped again the next night, we were able to pull off archaic ruin twice. so, to respond to my own post: difficult? yes. . impossible? no.</P><p>Message Edited by Jiggers on <span class=date_text>01-31-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:40 AM</span>

Kwoung
02-01-2005, 12:33 AM
<DIV>Is it my failing memory or didn't the old 30 second timer used to get reset each time it was advanced?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If not, the new 10 second timer should, giving each character 10 seconds to advance their portion of the HO wheel on the ones that require spells/skills be used in order. The ones that can be cast in any order are fine with 10 seconds total. The ones that require 3 seperate skills to be cast in order thouggh, are near impossible to complete.. especially when the first spell is a long cast healer spell, since chances are the healer is busy doing some healing and needs to finish that before doing the HO thing.</DIV>

Zindicatt
02-01-2005, 12:49 AM
<DIV>Right The Archaic Ruin requires me to cast a debuff (weakness line) as a first step.  Then fighter type a taunt, and then mage type a nuke to complete.  The weakness line is a 3 second cast (I'll double check).  We were able to pull it off once or twice, with everyone paying very close attention.  Most likely though, as kwoung said, I was in the middle of casting something else and ended up finishing mine on the 6th second mark (or more), leaving very little time for the other two to react.   </DIV>

Kwoung
02-01-2005, 12:59 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zindicatt wrote:<BR> <DIV>I was in the middle of casting something else and ended up finishing mine on the 6th second mark (or more), leaving very little time for the other two to react.   </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>On the one time we did complete it.. it was because I was chain casting 2 of the the mage spells that would complete it and my spell landed at the 10 second mark a split second (literally almost simultaneously) after the fighter was able to advance his portion. Not much room for error there.<BR>